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Education|Sat, Jul. 07 2007 05:29 AM EDT

Baptist Seminary Head Highlights Mormons' Self-Contradictory Church Claims

By Michelle Vu|Christian Post Reporter

Mormons seeking recognition as a legitimate member of the Christian church is self-contradictory because the religion was founded by declaring it is the only existing true church, stated one of America’s pre-eminent evangelical leaders Friday.

Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, focused in his second blog entry on how, by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints’ own definition, it cannot be considered part of the orthodox Christian church.

“‘The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints,’ as Mormonism is officially known, claims to be the only true church. As stated in the Doctrine and Covenants [1:30], Mormonism is ‘the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth,’” Mohler wrote.

Mormons believe the church was corrupt after the death of the apostles and became the “Church of the Devil.” And Mormons claim that it was not until the 19th century that the Prophet Joseph Smith restored the true church. This “true church” was given the keys to the Kingdom and the authority of the only true priesthood, according to Mormon theology.

“Why would Mormonism now want to be identified as a form of Christianity, when its central historical claim is that the churches commonly understood to be Christian are part of the Church of the Devil?” questioned Mohler.

The prominent Christian theologian has been engaged in an ongoing “blog dialogue” with well-known Mormon science fiction author Orson Scott Card since June 28. The two figures are debating whether Mormons can be considered Christians in a forum sponsored by the Web site Beliefnet.com.

Defending Mormonism is Card, who in his latest blog questioned Mohler’s authority to define who is Christian. More specifically, Card contended that the word “Christian” should include anyone that believes Jesus is the only way to salvation rather than in Mohler’s argument based on Christian orthodoxy.

In response, the Baptist seminary head said that Beliefnet had specifically assigned him to consider if Mormons were Christians based on traditional Christian orthodoxy. Mohler further added that if Christianity was defined in terms of sociology, the history of religions or other disciplines, then an expert from that field should take part in the debate rather than himself.

“The question could simply refer to common opinion – do people on the street believe that Mormonism is Christianity? But then the matter would be in better hands among the pollsters,” Mohler commented.

The evangelical theologian emphasized once again that according to how the question was framed theologically by Beliefnet, “the answer is clear and unassailable – Mormonism is not Christianity. When the question is framed this way, Mr. Card and I actually agree, as his essay makes clear.”

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  • Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    DNA VS the Book of Mormon:
    http://www.concernedchristians.org/stream/DNA-vs-Book-of-Mormon-BB.ram

    Mormonism: The Christian View
    http://www.concernedchristians.org/stream/view.ram

    (RealPlayer required)

    Concerned Christians:
    http://www.concernedchristians.org/

  • Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Lets be real "The Bottom Line" is this The Church of Jesus Christ of Later day Saints (the fourth largest American church) is bad for business... if that business is running the Southern Babtist Denomination and if you are attempting to keep your membership from jumping ship. Baptist make up the largest group of converts coming into the LDS church. In other words Southern Babtist make good Mormons and they are joining the LDS church in greater numbers than any other American denomination. The loss of money and power concerns Southern Baptist more than the bogus up issue of lost soles.
    I am one of those Southern Baptist who left the SBC and joined the LDS church. I guess the real question is am I covered both ways??

  • Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    he founder of the Church, Joseph Smith, said:

    "While one portion of the human race is judging and condemning the other without mercy, the Great Parent of the Universe looks upon the whole of the human family with a fatherly care and paternal regard; he views them as his offspring, and without any of those contracted feelings that influence the children of men."

  • Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    If anybody wants to check out a transcript of a debate I had
    over Mormonism (which I argued for as a Denomination within Christianity)
    please email me at

    joze14rock@yahoo.com

  • Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:13 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    I'm confused about all this LDS stuff. Evangelicals and Mormons are both are politically conservative and strongest in red states. They both dislike homosexuality. They both are anti-abortion. Sounds like you're more alike than different. Shouldn't you guys be allies instead of swiping at each other?

  • Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:44 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

    If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is Christian, then why do they want me to, in effect, convert from Christianity (in which I have committed my life to Christ, repented of my sins, and been baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to walk in newness of life), and be baptized into their church?

    Why, exactly, does Joseph Smith say in Joseph Smith - History 1:18,19, (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/8,10#8)
    18 "My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join." ". . . I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
    19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

    The Bible teaches in Ephesians 4:5 that there is one Lord, one Faith, and one Baptism. I'd have to say that we shouldn't be arguing over the definition of what a Christian is, and, instead concern ourselves as to whether Jesus claims us as His own. It is His church after all, and His body. No matter what anyone else thinks about whether I'm saved or not, or if I'm really a Christian, I'm much more concerned with His opinion of me than anyone else's.

    After reading the Book of Mormon and praying as the Elders from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints asked me to, and even reading quite a bit of the Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine & Covenants, and, having done quite a bit of other reading and research, my conclusion was that Mormonism is best described as a 'pseudo-Christian cult.' I do not believe all of their doctrines are compatible with what the Bible teaches. I felt very sad with this conclusion because I have Latter Day Saints as friends, who are very good people, and who probably act more "Christian" than many inside the mainstream church.

  • Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:50 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 3

    "By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that the purpose of the atonement was to bring resurrection and immortality to all people, regardless of whether they receive Christ by faith. Christ’s atonement is only a partial basis for worthiness and eternal life, which also requires obedience to all the commands of the Mormon church, including exclusive Mormon temple rituals"

    Mormons undeniably do not believe faith alone can provide salvation. Otherwise, baptism would not be a requirement for salvation. Jesus Christ would be acknowledged as God in the flesh. Moreover, within Mormonism, the attainment of certain Temple Rights would not have to be met in order to receive entrance into the highest level of heaven. Still, why would there be 3 different "heavens" if Faith alone was enough? Read the biblical writing's of the Apostles. None claimed themselves to be any more worthy of salcvation than a beggar, cripple, Pharisees, Jews, or Romans. Once Again, the Apostle Paul wrote, "For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation, to the Jew first and also to the Greek." Rom 1:16

    This is a disappointingly erroneous analysis, based on a caricature which itself is based on genuine misinformation. In the spirit of fair intellectual inquiry, I suggest that many of you stop asking your pastors or your Protestant neighbors what Mormons believe and start asking ARTICULATE and well-educated Mormons. Of course, this will require that you actually WANT to know--something that not everyone I have met actually wants. But I extend my thanks to joze14rock for succeeding in some regards.

    On DannyPoo's third post and summathes post:
    Claiming that we do not really accept Christ's atonement is probably the most pernicious of the inaccuracies propagated here. It SIMPLY IS NOT CORRECT. Read any of our standard works: the New Testament, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price. I could spout hundreds of verses to you from all of them that maintain our belief in the CENTRALITY of Christ to our theology. I hope that those who claim this do so out of ignorance and not merely out of a desire to twist the truth for social or political gain.

    We do not do these ordinances/commands because we just "feel" like, because we somehow think that the "trust not in the arm of flesh" dictum does not apply to us. I do them because I have followed the instructions of the Bible and have sought to receive what flesh and blood could not tell me, that in participating in these ordinances, I am following Christ's will for me (see Matt. 16:15-19 and John 14:26 for how I believe we receive a knowledge of God). Then again, I might just be a brainwashed Mormon who THINKS he believes these things; after all, you really CAN'T trust us Mormons to be sincere. We just want to ratchet up the numbers :)

    Re: the quotes cited by DannyPoo, these quotations have been quite clearly taken out of context, at least to anyone who cares to read the sources.

    One by one:

    John Taylor--if one takes this statement as indicative of our view towards Christ, one is thorougly ignorant of LDS history. Who was it that drove the Latter Day Saints from their homes, who tarred and feather Joseph in Hiram, OH, who did the most un-Christian of activities? The Christianity of the 19th CENTURY. Christianity has changed tremendously in those 150 years. Preachers as a whole no longer wink at slavery (which easily qualifies as the devil's work, I maintain). The plate tectonics of Christianity have changed radically, and if you fail to see that, then I seriously wonder at your ability to engage in critical analysis.

    Spencer W. Kimball--An even worse case of misrepresentation. Only paragraphs later, Kimball maintains that "however good a person's works, he could not be saved had Jesus not died for his and everyone else's sins." Furthermore, it should be clear from the text that Kimball's idea of works simply comes to repentance, something that is reiterated throughout the scriptures. Later in the chapter, Kimball maintains that we must submit ourselves to Christ; after all, he stands at the door and knocks. While Kimball cites 2 Ne. 25:23 (ye are saved by grace after all you can do), this verse is clarified by Alma 26:22 (all we can do is repent of our sins and come unto Christ). In other words, if you're going to attempt to incriminate us, at least find bona fide quotes that hold up your criticisms. As it stands, all you seem to do is cite vague quotes out of context.

    Joseph Smith--It is remarkable to me the depths researchers bow to in order to smear and caricature. Joseph Smith later said: "The fundamental principles of our religion...that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it." (Documentary History of the Church, 3:30). Joseph also maintained repeatedly that "we don't ask any people to throw away any good they have got; we only ask them to come and get more. What if all the world should embrace this Gospel? They would then see eye to eye, and the blessings of God would be poured out upon the people, which is the desire of my whole soul." Attempts to portray Joseph as a dogmatic bigot generally seem to be seizing upon one phrase as though it were indicative of the man; that's not intellectually responsible. That's not becoming of those who claim to be seekers of the truth, as I as

  • Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:04 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    I think these videos pretty much speak for themselves in regard to whether Mormonism is a legitamately Christian religion. Labeling something "Christian" doesn't make it so. Most of America thinks it's "Christian" but true Christians know better. Jesus said it best: "You will know them by their fruit."

    DNA VS the Book of Mormon:
    http://www.concernedchristians.org/stream/DNA-vs-Book-of-Mormon-BB.ram

    Mormonism, The Christian View:
    http://www.concernedchristians.org/stream/view.ram

    http://www.concernedchristians.org/


  • Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:15 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 2

    This is my response to joze14rock's dissertation. If anyone wants a copy of his original arguments, e-mail me and I will forward them to you. xdannypoox@aol.com

    -----------------

    Ok, now that I have some free time I will attempt to respond to a couple of comments. If I sound like I am being "rough" or "rude" on any occasion of you reading this. Please know that often online conversations cannot express actual attitudes as well as in person, my goal is not to be rude in any way.

    ::Mormonism (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) is a denomination within the Christian Faith.
    And here is my Criterion:
    The definition of "Christianity" in the modern would is so shrewd and miconceptualized that we have lost the true meaning of being a Christian. So I will establish the new definition of Christian as my standard to support my argument.::

    In my opinion, it is unfair for you to state that I am incorrect in stating that Mormonism is not Christian, and then to justify it you have created your own definition. We either must agree on a definition and then determine if Mormonism is within that Definition, or we simply must agree to disagree. Generally when Orthodox Christians are stating that Mormons are not Christians, we are using the Criteria of Orthodox Christianity, we are not arguing on the terms of simply people who claim Jesus as their founder. Certainly Mormonism claims Jesus as a primary figure, but do we believe in the Same Jesus.

    This is essential, for example, me and my wife may claim that we both know a James Smith, Both of us agree that James Smith is an electrician. However, shortly into our discussion on James Smith we find some distinct differences. The James she knows is 5'2, blonde, and has 3 kids. The James I know is 6'1, brown hair, is widows with no children. We look at eachother in realization that we are simply not talking about the same James.

    In the same way, Mormonism claims Jesus, Orthodox Christians claim Jesus. They have similiar qualities but in detail we will find they are entirely different at their core(I will describe this in detail if you request). Faith is only as Good as who you put it in, if you put your faith in the wrong Jesus, that faith cannot save you.

    In your sincere and good-hearted attempt to simplify the term "Christian" to be inclusionary to more religious groups, you inadvertantly, become exclusionary to groups who claim otherwise.

    Again, until we agree on a definition of Christianity, many of the arguments you presented become invalid in persuasion. Now proof is different from persuasion, you may have proven your case. You focused on the Trinity for example, claiming it to be false but given no evidence of that argument.

    I am assuming at this point, please tell me if I am correct or incorrect, that you believe that Jesus and the Father are the same person(which presents a variety of biblical problems that I am willing to present)? or that Jesus is not God(This also presents a variety of biblical problems). Generally one of those two arguments is given to disprove to the Trinity.

    Now I will move onto some of your refutations, you mentioned the scriptures I used were incorrectly used, but wanted to avoid arguing those points and instead wanted to focus on why Sola Scriptura was incorrect.

    ::::Instead, I will argue that the popular Christian belief of "Solo Scriptura" (Scripture Only) is a rather disruptive creed::::

    It being potentially distruptive, does not nullify that it could potentially still be true.

    ::I believe that the Bible is Divinely inspired but at the same time I am not going to deny that their are many mistakes in the Bible.::

    As an individual who has actually read through 90 percent of the "variations" (If you would like I could send you a list of those variations) that are sometimes used to list as "mistakes" in scripture. I would definately challenge you to back this up, not challenge as in an "angry way" but I would like to talk more about what you specifically understand about the science of textual criticism.

    However, much of what we will talk about will be useless as far as Mormonism goes, if we also cannot agree on whether Scripture in reliable.

    :::Their are hundreds of other Gospels, Epistles, Acts, Apocalypses that were not accepted into the New Testament,
    Yes, some are fradulant,
    but not all!::

    I have read some of these, and I have studied how many of them came to be. I would also challenge you to back up this claim.

    ::You can quote scripture all you want, but scripture is not what makes a Christian
    But a person who calls themself a Christian is what makes a Christian.::

    This is a very dangerous statement to make. I will agree with you on the first part, scripture is not what makes a person Christian, but aligning yourself with what Scripture teaches and knowing Jesus does. The second statement you said, is what I believe dangerous and/or fallacious "A person who calls themself a Christian is what makes a Christian". By that same claim, I could claim that I am a Muslim, or a Doctor, etc.


    ::
    Christians pomp around today as the "correct" and "right" faith. Christianity is the way to go!
    Yet,
    they can't even get along amongst each other.::

    This argument fails to demonstrate that Christianity is wrong because there is in-fighting.
    I could also argue on the same statement that the reason Christians are struggling to get along with eachother, it is because Satan is attacking the true believers most. In either case it has a level of non-falsifiability.


    Assuming you will respond to this, you are not required to respond to every statement I made, nor will I assume a non-response is a concession in any way. I would like to find a way to keep the e-mails on one or two subjects if possible.

    Thanks

    -Danny xdannypoox@aol.com

  • Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:25 am Agree: 7   Disagree: 4

    It's Plain and simple.

    The Apostle Paul said, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a free gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Eph 2:8-9

    Mormons undeniably do not believe faith alone can provide salvation. Otherwise, baptism would not be a requirement for salvation. Jesus Christ would be acknowledged as God in the flesh. Moreover, within Mormonism, the attainment of certain Temple Rights would not have to be met in order to receive entrance into the highest level of heaven. Still, why would there be 3 different "heavens" if Faith alone was enough? Read the biblical writing's of the Apostles. None claimed themselves to be any more worthy of salcvation than a beggar, cripple, Pharisees, Jews, or Romans. Once Again, the Apostle Paul wrote, "For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation, to the Jew first and also to the Greek." Rom 1:16

    Mormonism itself excludes non-Mormons certain spiritual inheritances if they're not Mormon. Mormonism is not about the work of Christ, but it's about Mormonism itself and Mormons attaining godhood.

  • Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:59 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 8

    If anybody wants to read my dissertation supporting Mormonism as a denominational faith within Christianity

    email me at

    joze14rock@yahoo.com

    Thanks!

  • Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:35 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 8

    "Mormons [seek] recognition as a legitimate member of the Christian church" is an incredible falsehood. Since the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ first told fourteen-year-old Joseph Smith that "all their creeds were an abomination in his sight," we have never aspired to be part of orthodox creedal Christianity. We have, however, sought to live in peace with people of all religions -- a wish that was denied by the "good Christian" mobs, led by "good Christian" ministers, that drove my ancestors at gunpoint out of Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois.

    Mohler knowingly turns the fact, which we have never denied, that Latter-day Saints are not *orthodox* Christians into the lie, "Mormons do not believe in Christ."

    This has only one purpose -- to steer those less sophisticated than Mohler away from investigating the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its founding document, "The Book of Mormon: Another Witness for Jesus Christ."

  • Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:41 pm Agree: 9   Disagree: 2

    What do Mormon authorities think of Orthodox Christianity?

    John Taylor, the third President of the Mormon Church said:
    "Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its [Christianity] pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 167).

    Spencer Kimball, twelfh President of the LDS Church:
    "One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation." (Miracle of Forgiveness, Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206.)

    "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world." ("Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith," Compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith, page 270.)

    (In questions directed to Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism. . .)
    First -- "Do you believe the Bible?"
    If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do."
    Third — "Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?"
    Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings, page 119.)

  • Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:31 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the purpose of the atoning work of Christ on the cross was to provide the complete solution for humankind’s sin problem. However, those who reject God’s grace in this life will have no part in this salvation but are under the judgment of God for eternity (John 3:36; Hebrews 9:27; 1 John 5:11-12).

    By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that the purpose of the atonement was to bring resurrection and immortality to all people, regardless of whether they receive Christ by faith. Christ’s atonement is only a partial basis for worthiness and eternal life, which also requires obedience to all the commands of the Mormon church, including exclusive Mormon temple rituals (Gospel Principles, pp. 74-75; Mormon Doctrine, p. 669).

  • Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:26 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 3

    Is Mormonism Christian?

    http://www.carm.org/lds/lds_christian.htm

    Feel free to e-mail me xdannypoox@aol.com for further discussion if you are willing to keep the conversation polite and civl.

  • Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:15 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 5

    As an advocate for a worldwide Ecunemical Church. So that pretty much explains my stance to the article. I believe this Baptist professor is biased in his opinion because he is entrenched in his own Religous dogma. Baptist Churches are autonomous, meaning they are exclusively focused on their own individual Churches. And for this reason, their are so many Baptist Conventions in the United States. This ideology is in contrast with ecunemical unity.
    Ironically, The Baptist are a more individualistic denomination, then the Mormons are.

    Now, I'm not a Mormon. But as a Christian of Consensus Gentium (Common Belief) I deeply believe in a universal respect among Christians.
    Mormons are Christians. PERIOD. No argument about it.
    I believe the reason why their is such a controversy about this is because the term "Christian" has been so politicized (just like Evangelism) into mainstraim culture, that we have lost the TRUE definition of the term.
    A CHRISTIAN IS A PERSON WHO BELIEVES IN JESUS OF NAZERATH.
    NOT- A person who necesserily believes in the Trinity (look at the history of this concept and you'll see it's not biblical and that it is full of troubles)
    NOT- A person who believes in Sola Scriptura *Through Scripture Only* (For we know that Catholicism doesn't enforce this, yet they are considered more Christian than Mormons)

    And I could continue on, but their is a limit of wording.
    And I could give a dump load of verses to support this, but I wont. So I'll just give one verse:
    "For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe's household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says 'I am of Paul' or 'I am of Apollos [Peter]" or 'I am of Cephas' or 'I am of Christ'
    Is Christ divided?'
    1 Corinthians 1:11-13

  • Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:08 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

    I am afraid many of Dr. Mohler's assumptions about the Mormon faith are erroneous. As an educated and orthodox Latter Day Saint, it does not matter to me if Dr. Mohler claims to have "studied" Mormonism; would we believe a Holocaust survivor or a Holocaust scholar?

    I do not want to burden this blog, so I will confine my remarks to Mohler's claims re: the Book of Mormon's conception of Jesus. To believe that Jesus as the BOM depicts him is at odds with the Biblical Jesus is, quite simply incorrect. To try pointing out the citations supporting Christ's divine birth, his ministry and his atoning sacrifice would be like attempting to draw the Cistene chapel on a piece of scratch paper with a broken pencil; there is simply too much.

    Please see Mosiah chpts. 3-5, 2 Ne. chpt. 2, chpt. 9, chpts. 11-14 chpt. 25, Jacob 4, Alma 36-37, 40-42, 3 Ne. chpts. 11-29, Moroni chpt. 10, and the LIST GOES ON. I defy anyone to find a single verse in that book that says anything but the most exalted language about the Son of God, the babe borne at Bethlehem, and our Savior and Redeemer.

    Those who believe that Mormons do not accept the Christ of the Bible need to GET EDUCATED, whether they have a Ph.D. or work as a day laborer. Just because a professor, even a highly regarded one, argues something about another religion does not mean that what s/he says has any semblance of reality to it.

  • Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:09 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

    It is expedient as a member of the church to do my best to clarify these opinions presented by DannyPoo. Foremost, the doctrines of the Trinity, and Godhood are deep, somewhat, abstract concepts. For example, our current concept and understanding of the Atom is an abstract idea. We have never seen an atom, yet we see evidence of it all around in the beautiful structures of this universe. We use Mathematics to communicate these deeper abstract ideas and concepts. This being said, although we use English to communicate at a very general level the concepts of The Trinity and Godhood, the Holy Ghost, essentially, is the only way these deeper salvational truths can be communicated.

    As a layman I can only give you my personal opinion on the matters of doctrine. As far as I know, The Church of Jesus Christ and myself included, are in accordance with your first paragraph. There are a few points in the second paragraph that we do not necessarily agree with. As a sidenote, you have cited "Mormon Doctrine" by Bruce R. McKonkie, who later became a member of the Council of the Twelve Apostles. Contrary to popular belief, not everything in "Mormon Doctrine" is LDS doctrine. In my estimation, and by the tone of the second paragraph, you have cheapened and degraded our doctrine of the Christ's conception and birth. Titus 1:15 "Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled."

    If you want doctrine, go to the website www.mormon.org or www.lds.org. If you want opinions, do a google search for "mormon" and see what you find.

  • Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:00 am Agree: 9   Disagree: 3

    The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that Jesus is the unique Son of God; he has always existed as God, and is co-eternal and co-equal with the Father (John 1:1, 14; 10:30; 14:9; Colossians 2:9). While never less than God, at the appointed time He laid aside the glory He shared with the Father (John 17:4, 5; Philippians 2:6-11) and was made flesh for our salvation; His incarnation was accomplished through being conceived supernaturally by the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin (Matthew 1:18-23; Luke 1:34-35).

    By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Jesus Christ is our elder brother who progressed to godhood, having first been procreated as a spirit child by Heavenly Father and a heavenly mother; He was later conceived physically through intercourse between Heavenly Father and the virgin Mary (Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p. 129; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 546-547; 742). Mormon doctrine affirms that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers (Gospel Principles, pp. 17-18; Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).

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