Pope Benedict XVI’s pride in the primacy of Catholicism is making him enemies, said the head of Egypt’s Coptic Orthodox church.
“The man (Pope Benedict) makes enemies every time,” said Pope Shenouda III, leader of the 10 million Coptic Christians in Egypt, according to the state-run daily Al-Ahram.
“In his first statements a few months back, he lost all the Muslims,” he said Saturday, referring to the Pope’s speech in Germany last year when he associated Islam with violence. “And now this time, he lost a lot of the Christian denominations because he has begun to err against Christians themselves.”
Shenouda was reacting to the pope’s approval of a document last Tuesday that reasserted the Vatican’s position on the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church as the “one true church,” while all non-Catholic churches are simply “ecclesial communities.”
“Other Christian communities are either defective or not true churches and Catholicism provides the only true path to salvation,” the pope was quoted as saying.
The Coptic head said the statement was the result of Catholic pride, as though “they were the only Christians in the world,” according to Reuters.
“We’re not opposed to Catholics having pride in their church, but that doesn’t mean that every church that doesn’t join them isn’t a church,” he said.
Protestant leaders have also expressed disappointment at the Vatican’s position as it came amid the growing ecumenical dialogue between Protestant churches and the Catholic Church.
“We are puzzled by the release of a statement of this kind at this time in the history of the church,” wrote the World Alliance of Reformed Churches (WARC) general secretary, the Rev. Dr. Setri Nyomi, in a letter response. “An exclusive claim that identifies the Roman Catholic Church as the one church of Jesus Christ … goes against the spirit of our Christian calling toward oneness in Christ.
“It makes us question the seriousness with which the Roman Catholic Church takes its dialogues with the Reformed family and other families of the church,” Nyomi added. “It makes us question whether we are indeed praying together for Christian unity.”
However, many Protestant denominational heads and scholars have also pointed out that the Vatican’s statement is nothing new.
“Similar statements and perspectives precipitated the 16th century Reformation nearly 500 years ago,” Dr. Gerald B. Kieschnick, president of The Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod.
“At that time Martin Luther said, ‘Popes and councils can err.’ Apparently that is still true today,” he added.
Dr. R. Albert Mohler Jr., one of the nation’s preeminent evangelicals, was also not surprised by the Vatican’s statement, and therefore “not offended.” Continue >>
Comments
I agree with your assessment Prophet; there is a vast difference between the Mary of Catholicism and the Mary of the Bible. Mary herself describes her position and condition in Luke 1:46-55. Is it not interesting that in verse 47 she says, "And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour."? She along with the rest humanity recognized a need for a Saviour!
Amen online4him and laforte! To God be all glory and power and honor.
Apparently, 1Corintians is a Catholic. But I must say that his view of mary and the saints is askew! So God and Jesus have no idea what it's like for us down here? Really? He's so far removed from us that he needs mary and the "saints" to tell Him what it's like for us? So then the word of God is a lie. Because my Bible says "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need." Hebres 4:14-16. Hmmmm...i dont see Mary or the "saints" mentioned in there. Praying to Mary and the saints is a manmad tradition that lessens the power and authority of God. Along with that belief comes the belief that God is not all-powerful, nor all knowing. It distances Him from us and makes Jesus' life and crucifixion void and meaningless.
Praise God; it is truly all about him!
wow you said a mouth-fulll its all about Jesus-,so be it- amen.
The question is not whether we love Christ, Jesus himself told us to go and teach all nations; what are we to teach? I am by no means saying that Catholics cannot have a relationship with Christ nor am I pointing fingers at individuals. As followers of Jesus Christ we commanded to ‘contend for the faith’. . . . Jude 3. Example:
Pilate saith unto him, What is truth?. . . . . John 18:38.
Is it not ironic that this governor would ask this question from the TRUTH himself? Many today are not really concerned with truth let alone searching for it. The culture today preaches doubt and ignorance by claiming that truth cannot be grasped, does not exist, or claims that no one has it. Some say that truth is whatever you think it is (Relativism) or what experience has taught you. So, what is truth? Is it something that we can ignore or burry under the worlds modern day verbiage of political correctness, tolerance, multiculturalism, and postmodernism (liberalism)? Colossians 2:8 says, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
As Christians we have been commanded to contend (fight - maintain) for the faith which was given to us - Jude verse 3. This fight for truth is constant and unrelenting since our enemy does not stop. This fight is spiritual for Ephesians 6:12 says, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." We cannot rely on what others have said, what others tell us, lean to our own understanding, trust our feelings which constantly change; we must personally search for truth in the Word of God.
Now do not misunderstand me; we must be loving and tolerant with everyone but let us not betray or compromise the truth to please the world. We are to preach the truth in love or not at all. For God has said, "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." 1Timothy 2:4.
God has sufficiently supplied us with the truth of his holy word. From ages past to the present His word has withstood the test of time. Through his Word, he has revealed his truth and the truth is this: Salvation (being saved) is through Jesus alone, through grace (his favor) alone, through faith (trusting in him) alone, and through the scriptures (His word) alone. What is truth? Search for yourself and discover that through His word you can find love, salvation, truth, peace, hope, wisdom, understanding, and Christ himself. It is unfortunate that Pilate did not seize the opportunity to accept the TRUTH. I invite you to read, examine, and search his word everyday and you will come to know what truth is. Truth does matter! Our lives surely depend on it.
I'm sorry if that post came off as rude or derrogatory in any way, I didn't mean for it to at all.
I am openminded about this most of the time, I really try to be. I always try to focus on the fact that we all share a love for Christ. Its really hard to stay open minded though when Christians bash other Christians for their religious traditions, beliefs, or even the foundation the church was made on. We are all children of God. If you have a problem with a belief in the Catholic faith, ask a Catholic to explain it or look it up because maybe you just don't understand it. The same goes with ANY other faith... Understanding one anothers faiths will help us to stay openminded and possibly understand why they have certain views on things. I'm not saying that by understanding it you will agree with it, you will only understand their point of view. Don't assume anything about another faith because that makes a you know what out of U and ME (pardon the pun)
The point is... WE ALL SHARE A LOVE FOR CHRIST. This is the ONLY thing that matters, and what should be bringing us together. Catholics, Methodists, Lutherans, Menonites, whatever... the Title DOESN"T matter. Our shared love for Christ does.
Don't put other faiths down. Don't point out what you believe to be their "faults" Its not your place to do that, and it's hypocritical to try and justify doing so. Like I said before, ITS GOD'S PLACE TO TELL US WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG. He put us on the earth to love one another, not to put each other down in anyway. True Christians WILL focus on our shared love for Christ, and WILL NOT focus on our differences.
Matthew goes on....
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
The rest of that verse is what is regarded as the "Scripture mandate" of the papal suprimacy.
That may or may not be how you interpret it. No one says you HAVE to think of it that way. I don't really understand the point of your post other than you again point out what you think is wrong with the Catholic church.
That is your opinion and whether you share it with 2 or 2 hundred people makes no difference. I really think that God would rather you be studying His scripture and focusing on your relationship with him rather than piddling with what you agree and don't agree with the Catholic faith. Like I said before. Isn't YOUR OWN PERSONAL FAITH what REALLY matters??????
Historically, the Roman Catholic Church has taught that to be saved an individual must be submitted to the bishop of Tome. It claims that Christ bestowed a personal primacy on the apostle Peter and established him as visible head of the Church. It further states that this primacy was then passed on to the bishops of Rome as the exclusive successors of Peter. It claims that Matthew 16:18 (‘on this rock I will build My Church’) is the Scriptural mandate for its teaching on papal primacy and insists that its interpretation can be supported by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers. THIS IS FALSE. Matthew 16 does not, in fact, even imply papal primacy.
The passage says absolutely nothing about successors to Peter, and the unanimous consent of the Fathers actually opposes the Roman Catholic interpretation of Mt 16. The Fathers generally interpret the ‘rock’ in Matthew 16 to be Christ or Peter’s confession of faith in Christ. Some of the Fathers do refer to Peter as the rock but only in the sense of that he is the first to confess Christ to be the Son of God and is therefore representative of the entire Church. The Church is therefore built, not on Peter (or subsequently on the bishops of Rome), but on his confession of faith in the person of Christ. His confession points to Christ. The Fathers of the early centuries are not supporters of the Roman Catholic interpretation of Mt. 16:18 as proposed by Vatican One. Interestingly, it is the Protestant and Eastern Orthodox interpretation which is endorsed by the Fathers of the early church. This is affirmed by Johann Joseph Ignaz von Dollinger, the most renowned Roman Catholic historian of the 19th century who taught Church history as a Roman Catholic for 47 years.
Von Dollinger states: ‘Of all the Fathers who interpret these passages in the Gospels (Matt 16:18, John 21:17), not a single one applies them to the Roman bishops as Peter’s successors. How many Fathers have busied themselves with these texts, yet not one of them whose commentaries we possess-Origen, Chrysostom, Hilary, Augustine, Cyril, Theodoret, and those whose interpretations are collected in catenas-has dropped the faintest hint that the primacy of Rome is the consequence of the commission and promise to Peter! Not one of them has explained the rock or foundation on which Christ would build His Church of the office given to Peter to be transmitted to his successors, but they understood by it either Christ Himself, or Peter’s confession of faith in Christ; often both together. Or else they thought Peter was the foundation equally with all the other Apostles, the twelve being together the foundation-stones of the Church (Revelation xxi. 14). The Fathers could the less recognize in the power of the keys, and the power of binding and loosing, any special prerogative or lordship of the Roman bishop, inasmuch as-what is obvious to anyone at first sight-they did not regard a power first given to Peter, and afterwards conferred in precisely the same words on all the Apostles, as anything peculiar to him, or hereditary in the line of Roman bishops, and they held the symbol of the keys as meaning just the same as the figurative expression of binding and loosing’ (The Pope and the Council (Boston: Roberts, 1869), p. 74).
Show me in Scripture where faith in Mary is equal to faith in Christ.
Show me, in legitimate Catholic text, where faith in Mary is equal to faith in Christ. Catholics honor Mary because she was the virgin mother of Jesus. They do not idolize her or worship her; that alone goes to Christ. Catholics pray to Mary because she intercedes our prayers for us. --My example for this---- you are a child and want your dad to help or do something for you so while you also ask him straight up you get your mother to help you explain and "convince" him of your requests. This is a very strong belief among Catholics, you can pray directly to God if you want, but having Mary and the Saints is like having people who really understand how hard life is (who've suffered the particular problems a person is having), pass up your prayers to God. If this does not explain clear enough you can look it up in the Catechism or in other articles on the Catholic view of Mary (I'd advise you to read ones written by a Catholic)
----In a Catholic Mass, the priest says, "ALL glory and honor is YOURS all-mighty Father, forever, and ever" and the congregation responds "Amen" meaning "so be it".
JDNWF66 states everything very well. The Pope's statement was NOT meant to denigrate other churches. That statement has been around for ages, but because it is again brought up in the present time, people are throwing a fit. (Vatican II also states, similarly, that the Catholic Church is the one and only true church founded by Jesus Christ) Just as JDNW66 states there are over 33,640 churches that have different beliefs......, yet ALL of those churches have beliefs based from Catholic teachings. Of course, some have more than others. Yet look it up, the Catholic Church was first. It's in the history books. Each year 7th graders around the country learn about it. You can't change history.
Everyone is entitled to believe what they wish; God is the only one who will in the end tell us what is right or wrong. Catholics believe what they wish, Protestants, Muslims, Hindus, etc, do the same. So I challenge you all. Instead of focusing on what YOU believe to be wrong about the Catholic Church (OR any OTHER church for that matter), focus on your own faith, because in the end, isn't that what really matters anyways??
Also, Mat 7:1 Judge not lest you be judged. Ya, thats from the Bible. Obviously those posting have read it... so how 'bout we listen....
The majority of protestants merely wanted to reform the Church, like it or not, that is factual history. Thus, the name protestant reformation. It is a modern day, almost mormon attempt, to eliminate the teachings of the Catholic Church.
prophet, it's tough to use Luther because as a former Catholic, like Henry VIII, he never questioned the authority of the Catholic Church. Please refer to the Encyclopedia of biblical christianity online. "Luther, while recognizing purgatory, indulgences, and the invocation of the saints, denied all effect of indulgences on purgatory". From previous postings you have serious concerns with the invocation of the saints.
nope, there might have been a turn to using the bible more but my take on Vatican II was an attempt to get more lay people involved. The Catholic Catechism naver changed. Thus, the article clearly states: However, many Protestant denominational heads and scholars have also pointed out that the Vatican’s statement is nothing new.
Under Vatican II, didn'tt the Catholic Church acknowledge that any belief in God, as long asit was sincere, would provide a way into the Kingdom of God. Under Vatican II, the Roman Catholic Church acknowledged all people of a faith would receive eternaal life in God's kingdom. This included Muslims, Hindus, Baptists, Lutherans, Buddhists, etc...
It seems to me, under Vatican II, that the Catholic Church has more problems theologically than other Christian churches.
JDNWF66....just because there are so many "different" protestant churches (where does that term come from anyway? Is it a Catholic created label? Or who came up with that term?) and one Catholic church, doesn't mean that Catholicism is the true way. I'm saved and going to heaven, and I'm not Catholic...so much for their claims of being the only way. You said "The Pillar and Foundation of Truth IS The Church". Where's that found? And I'm sure in true Catholic boastfulness you will claim that the term "church" means Catholic....where, in reality, it means anyone who has accepted the gift of eternal life through the sacrifice of Jesus' death. I'm not Catholic, but I am a part of the Body of Christ, which is made up of people who are called Methodists, Presbeterians, Pentacost, Catholic, Baptist, etc, etc...
stoneab, its so true that many protestant parishioners don't know what they believe or why. But those that do, do so because the Word of God says so. For every one protestant who has no idea what or why they believe...there is one catholic in the same boat. And the Catholics that do know what and why, does so because a Pope has said thus and thus...not because it's the Word of God. Martin Luther was excommunicated because he had the Holy boldness to stand up for the Truth and expose the erroneous teachings of Catholicism.
Protestant believe what they believe because the Word of God teaches it.
Catholics believe what they believe because of what the church teaches. (purposely did not capitalize "church")
Tell me....which authority is higher? God or the church?