Mormons believe in a false gospel and are not Christians, concluded one of the nation’s preeminent evangelicals in what appeared to be the close of an online debate over Mormonism.
“Here is the bottom line. As an Evangelical Christian – a Christian who holds to the ‘traditional Christian orthodoxy’ of the Church – I do not believe that Mormonism leads to salvation,” wrote Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, on Wednesday evening.
“To the contrary, I believe that it is a false gospel that, however sincere and kind its adherents may be, leads to eternal death rather than to eternal life,” he stated.
Mohler’s response is part of an ongoing “blog dialogue” sponsored by the Web site Beliefnet.com. Since June 28, the evangelical scholar and prominent Mormon science-fiction writer Orson Scott Card have been debating whether Mormons can be considered Christians.
During the course of the debate, Card focused on whether Mormons are moral people, good citizens and why Mormon presidential candidate Mitt Romney should be supported by evangelicals. He emphasized that Mormons share many of the same values as evangelical Christians and believe Jesus Christ is the only path to salvation.
However, Mohler noted that whether a Mormon has similar moral values to evangelical Christians is beside the point because Beliefnet.com had asked whether Mormons can be considered Christians based on traditional Christian orthodoxy.
“It appears that we are not really discussing the same question,” noted Mohler in his latest blog response.
“The debate has never been about whether Mormons are good Americans or would make good neighbors,” he wrote.
“I dare say that most American Evangelicals and traditional Roman Catholics would find more in common with Mormons in terms of child-rearing, sexual morality, the protection of marriage and family, and a host of other issues, than they would with liberal Catholics or liberal Protestants,” acknowledged Mohler.
But Mormonism from its beginning has rejected traditional Christian orthodoxy, which is part of the core Mormon identity, pointed out the highly-respected theologian. The subtitle of The Book of Mormon is “Another Testament of Jesus Christ.”
“A ‘testament,’ that is, other than that accepted by the historic Christian churches,” Mohler highlighted.
Mohler – who is often seen on “Larry King Live” and other popular news show representing the Christian voice – concluded that Mormonism is not just another form of Christianity and is incompatible with “traditional Christian orthodoxy.”
Mormon defender Card readily agrees with Mohler that Mormons do not fit into the Christian category as defined by traditional Christian orthodoxy. However, he argues that Mormons should be considered “nontraditional Christians.”
“Despite our deep differences of belief over the nature of God and his plans for his children, we recognize that those who believe in the other Christian faiths have taken a giant step closer to fulfilling the intentions of our Lord,” wrote Card on Thursday. “They are, in heart and mind, Christians.”
He further added, “We ask only the same favor in return. Let’s take that word ‘traditional’ and make use of it. Instead of saying that we are ‘not Christian’…let us agree that Mormons are ‘nontraditional Christians.’”
Card looked back on Christian history when Protestant Christian denominations were not accepted as part of the traditional church according to the Catholic viewpoint, and was even condemned guilty of heresy.
He concluded: “Call us ‘nontraditional Christians’ and continue to encourage your communicants not to believe our doctrines. We’ll happily continue to call you ‘traditional Christians’ and teach people why they should believe our doctrines.”
The Mormon defender ended by calling for unity in a world where Christians are persecuted and expressed appreciation that Dr. Mohler affirmed that Mormons should be equally considered for American public offices regardless of theological difference.
Comments
Regarding: Mormons are not Christians, please refer to the following link for a statement by a Mormon leader for correct doctrinal information. Thank you.
http://broadcast.lds.org/genconf/2007/10/20/GC_2007_10_27_HollandJR__02381_eng_vc1.wmv
Warmest regards,
Mormonism is at best Pagan with a mixture of borrowed masonic rituals. They believe in three gods and they eventually seek to become god. The Mormon god is flesh and bone. On the other hand, the Christ in the Bible took on human flesh, in order to condemn sin in the flesh. The God of the Bible is Spirit (period).
A former mormon archaeologist has even confirmed that there was NO trace of jewish blood among the American indians in both north and south America which discredits the enitire storyline of the book of mormon rendering it to fantasy not reality.
In 1977, hundreds of thousands of mormons left mormonism after the original manuscript of the book of Abraham which Joseph Smith wrote was examined by an egyptologist who shockingly announced that the images on the clothe manuscript was NOT a translation from Eygtian at all. What was it? It was egytian pornography between Orisis and the snake-god Isis.
FEEL free to Download a free tract about the Truth about the JW's and MORMON's on the right-hand side bar of ==== >> http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com
Are you guys going to run around the block to find what is right in front of you? See this link which is a study of JS's false prophecies (and we all know what to think about someone who makes a single mistake) ...
http://www.irr.org/mit/jsfalpro.html
Joseph Smith was no true prophet of God, he was self-deceived. No more of this "Is the BOM from god or not?" Let's not waste any more time with this nonsense. The same goes for the JW's and and the Moonies and any other sect that dares to claim it speaks for God.
What leads to Salvation = JESUS CHRIST! "I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father, except through me." These are Jesus on words! HE said it, it is good enough for me.
God's Word speaks clearly to those who have The Holy Spirit; as The Holy Word is spiritually discerned! Without The Holy Spirit, man does not rightly divide the Word of God!
I pray for anyone and everyone who adds anything to the finished work of Jesus Christ! HE did it all folks; our part is to simply believe that HE DID! Believe what GOD says and OBEY what HE says! Thank you Lord God for the simplicity of Your Word to YOUR Children! For those who have hears, HEAR what The Spirit is saying. For Your Glory Lord God!
www.carm.org if you want to know more
Joseph Smith said that Facsimile No. 1 was of a bird as the "Angel of the Lord" with "Abraham fastened upon an altar," "being offered up as a sacrifice by a false priest. The pots under the altar were various gods "Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, Korash, Pharaoh," etc.
In reality, this is "an embalming scene showing the deceased lying on a lion-couch."2
In the original papyri, this drawing is attached to hieroglyphics (See figure A) from which Joseph derived the beginning of the book of Abraham which begins with the words, "In the Land of the Chaldeans, at the residence of my father, I, Abraham, saw that it was needful for me to obtain another place of residence"(1:1). In reality, the hieroglyphics translate as, "Osiris shall be conveyed into the Great Pool of Khons -- and likewise Osiris Hor, justified, born to Tikhebyt, justified -- after his arms have been placed on his heart and the Breathing permit (which [Isis] made and has writing on its inside and outside) has been wrapped in royal linen and placed under his left arm near his heart; the rest of the mummy-bandages should be wrapped over it. The man for whom this book was copied will breath forever and ever as the bas of the gods do."3
"It is the opening portion of an Egyptian Shait en Sensen, or Book of Breathings . . . a late funerary text that grew out of the earlier and more complex Book of the Dead." "This particular scroll was prepared (as determined by handwriting, spelling, content, etc.) sometime during the late Ptolemaic or early Roman period (circa 50 B.C. to A.D. 50)."4
The Papyri are found To every one’s surprise, in 1966 the papyri were rediscovered in one of the vault rooms of the New York’s metropolitan Museum of Art. The Deseret News of Salt Lake City on Nov. 27, 1967 acknowledged the rediscovery of the papyri. On the back of the papyri were "drawings of a temple and maps of the Kirtland, Ohio area."1 There could be no doubt that this was the original document from which Joseph Smith translated the book of Abraham. With the papyri rediscovered and Egyptian hieroglyphics decipherable since the late 1800's, it would then be an easy task of translating the papyri and proving once and for all that Joseph Smith was a prophet with the gift of "Seer" as he and the Mormon church have claimed. This would then prove the truth of the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham and would vindicate Joseph Smith as a true prophet of God.-What do the Experts say?
Joseph Smith copied three drawings from the Egyptian scrolls, labeled them Facsimile No. 1, No. 2, and No. 3, and incorporated them into the Book of Abraham with explanations of what they were. Egyptologists have viewed the drawings and found Joseph Smith's interpretation of them to be wrong. But, the Mormons, in defense of the sacred book, maintained that the Facsimiles alone were not sufficient to prove that Joseph Smith was erring in his translating abilities. With the rediscovery of the papyri, not only were there the same drawings in the scrolls, but so was the text from which Joseph Smith made his translation. I
But his Seer abilities did not stop there. In July of 1835, an Irishman named Michael Chandler brought an exhibit of four Egyptian mummies and papyri to Kirtland Ohio, then the home of the Mormons. The papyri contained Egyptian hieroglyphics. In 1835 hieroglyphics were unreadable.
As Prophet and Seer of the Church, Joseph Smith was given permission to look at the papyri scrolls in the exhibit and to everyone's shock, revealed that "one of the rolls contained the writings of Abraham, another the writings of Joseph of Egypt" (History of the Church, Vol. 2: 236. July 1835). The Church bought the exhibit for $2400. Joseph finished the translation of the Book of Abraham some time later, but the book of Joseph was never translated. The papyri were lost soon afterwards and thought to have been destroyed in a fire in Chicago in 1871. There was, therefore, no way to validate Joseph's translation. If the papyri were re-discovered and translated it would either prove or disprove the abilities of Joseph as a prophet of God. After all, he was supposed to be a prophet and have the abilities of a Seer as the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham supposedly proved. In October of 1880 The Pearl of Great Price, a collection of writings, which contained the book of Abraham, was recognized as scripture by the Mormon Church.
The Papyri are found
The Book of Abraham Papyri and Joseph Smith There are many proofs that Joseph Smith was a false prophet, but Mormons typically, will not accept them. From the biblical evidence that contradicts Mormon theology, to the contradictions within its own history and doctrine, proofs abound. But Mormons, completely dedicated to their religion and their testimony, cannot and will not see the evidence. They rely not on biblical evidence, not on historical evidence, but rather trust a 'testimony' that Mormonism is the restored church and Joseph Smith its true prophet.
One of the tests of whether or not a belief is grounded in reality is whether or not it can be proven to be true or false. If someone says, "I don't care what evidence you show me, I will always believe," then that person's faith is not rooted in reality. And since Christianity is a religion of history, crucifixion, resurrection, an empty tomb, etc., it is a religion rooted in reality. If it could be proven beyond doubt that Jesus did not rise from the dead, then Christianity is a false religion. Likewise, if it could be proven that Joseph Smith was a false prophet, then Mormonism is a false religion. It just so happens that there is such a proof.The Book of Abraham
Joseph Smith claimed that an angel appeared to him and revealed the location of some golden plates on which was written the account of the ancient people of the Americas. Joseph Smith later translated those plates into what is now known as the Book of Mormon. This translation was done by the power of God through special means. Joseph Smith, being the Lord's chosen instrument, became the prophet of the Mormon church, held the office of Seer. A Seer, according to the Book of Mormon in Mosiah 8:13, can translate records that are untranslatable. Hence, Joseph Smith was able to translate the golden plates into the Book of Mormon. But his
The point is this; regardless of one's affiliation, if we are trusting in ourselves, our church, our church leaders for salvation; we have all missed the mark. Salvation in found in the completed work of Jesus Christ; period.
ep1433-are these not your words"it is only a small body of evangelicals that don't consider Mormons Christian"-laforte2007 - Please explain how I am following the crowd? well since its only a small group,then you must think your in the large group,hence my reply as follows you follow the crowd,seeing as how we few deluded are so misguided as to follow no man but JESUS the Christ,Matthew 7:13-14 ENTER ye in at the strait gate;for WIDE is the GATE and BROAD is the WAY,that leadeth to DESTRUCTION,and MANY there BE which GO IN THEREAT.14,BECAUSE STRAIT is the gate and NARROW is the WAY,which LEADETH UNTO LIFE AND FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT,be forwarned fowwlow mans docrtine or follow JESUS your Call also you stated the following",When I was a college Freshman I decided to abandon the life my "Christian" friends were leading (drinking, sex, etc.) and chose a life of abstinenece before marriage, avoiding alchohol, and leaving home for 2 years to teach others about Christ."what you were doing in collage with your friends"When I was a college Freshman I decided to abandon the life my "Christian" friends were leading (drinking, sex, etc.)" so you were doing the same as them,who are you trying to fool,you know as well as I do that type of doings isnt christian,nor can that be held up as the standard of christs behavior we should do,so dont say they or you were christian then,3rd all you did after that time was done because the mormon church said this you will do,you went out and taught others latter day saints doctrines mixed will a little bible thrown in,you didnt teach the Gosple acording to Jesus you taught the gosple acording to the mormon church.
There is no such thing as proof in the existential sense. I am talking about proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
And Bible investigation is just the opposite. Despite what you claim, when I apply the exact same criteria to the Bible, it comes through in flying colors.
I look forward to your email!
Yes finally a fact! Although incorrect at least we are getting somewhere. Let me start with the BoM. First, nearly every claim you make would equally disqualify the Bible and in fact ever atheist that debates the proof of the Bible does just that. Why was steel mentioned in the OT testament long before it was invented? Where are all the leviathans the Bible mentions? where are all the Biblical cities we have never found. Now, you would then progress to a debate about the specifics of my claim (steel = translation issue, cities have been found or whatever). But it would be essentially the same debate you would like to have about the BoM.
So what you area really offering is not at all the proof you claimed to have that the BoM is false. What you have found is some support for such an arguement (support which I would dispute). Fair enough. But hardly insurmountable. Frankly, in an existential sense there is very little in this world that can be proved. That's why we use a different word for our belief in religion; faith. We don't call ourselves the prooful.
So now we have framed the debate properly. Namely that proof is a pretty extreme word to use unless you are demonstrating the most basic of tenets (gravity, life, etc.). Now we can proceed to disect the arguements you have made.
But after dinner.
ept, I am happy to answer any questions you have for me. I look forward to receiving an email from you.
As to my claims....I will start with the Book of Abraham.
Joseph Smith claimed he interpreted papyri found with an Egyptian mummy. He claimed it was a story written by Abraham (by his own hand) about Abraham's time in Egypt. We have now found the papyri, and it is nothing of the sort. It is a common pagan funerary text for a dead guy named Horus. The details are more complex, but that is the gist. It was pure fraud on Joseph's part.
As to the Book of Mormon, the proof is multifaceted. The proof comes from DNA, archaeology, textual analysis, and anthropology. A few examples are that animals, metals and technologies described in the BoM did not exist in BoM times. None of the cities or cultures in the BoM existed. DNA shows that the peoples of the Americas had no Semitic DNA. The BoM incorporates textual errors from the King James Bible. Josepth Smith also clearly borrowed place names from the area near his home in Palmyra, New York.
All of these things and more are proof. And this discussion need not even touch onthe actions of Joseph Smith himself - which further disqualify him as a prophet.
So, there is your response. The proof is in the pudding, and I will be happy to give you as much good pudding as you can take! :-)
About the Space Aliens. frankly many such faiths do exist and many are Christian or pseudo Christian doomsday cults. But christian is still the appropriate label no matter how distasteful it may be.
Christian is not a term for YOU to offer as you see fit. It is not a copyright you hold. Christ does.
You said "Second, I DO KNOW (empahsis mine) that you have not honestly and openly investigated your faith" Seriously? How could you possibly know such a think. The fact is you can't. You are claiming powers of perception beyond your abilities. If you say otherwise, please produce the proof. Now! Proof would look something like this, "I was ep1433's roomate when he was studying the LDS faith and he never cracked a book". That would be proof. Otherwise it is just more of the same baseless declarations from FT. It makes me wonder if your own faith shares the same flimsy foundations?
You declared that the BoM had been proven, "literally proven" false. Once again a declaration without facts. If something was literally proven false the facts to support such a claim would be simple to state, especially in the ample forum provided here. Again let me demonstrate; "The sun does not revolve around the earth, the earth revolves around the sun. This is true because the orbits of celestial bodies have been observed from a protracted distance from earth. Measurements of gravitational effects have been calculated recorded and are available for review." Now remember that is simply an analogy. I'm not an astrophysicist. But you get the point.
I'm happy to email you but such obvious "proof" should be easy to state here as well. But I do have one rule about an email exchange. You also have to be willing to examine your faith. It's history, it's leadership, it's teachings, etc. This is only fair.