Christian Zionist Leader Denounces Evangelicals' Pro-Palestinian Letter

dellapst »

Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:32 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

First of all, Israel is a nation unto itself, wo why do we think we have the right to say where its borders are? Why do we have the right to tell the people of Israel they must let their sworn enemies live within their borders? Most of the Palestinians want to see every non Muslim dead, that is their belief system! We are not Muslim's either and that is why the U.S. is on their hit list as well.
Think about it, these people want all of us dead, why do we support them? They are a huge threat to the United States as well as to Israel.
China will even kill those people who evangilize in their country. Are we telling China they have to give up part of their country to a sworn enemy?
Israel is a small country surrounded by enemies who want them all dead. They are a democratic nation. We should be supporting them period.
The Lord God made provision for Israel from the time of Abraham and the statement dannygirl made regarding Matthew 21:43 was meant individually, not for the entire nation of Israel. It is not commonly believed that Israel forfeited her rights to the Kingdom of God, rather it is believed that each person must come to belief in Christ as their personal Savior.
To condemn an entire nation because of this verse is wrong!
I am sorry that Israel is entertaining the idea of banning Christian believers from spreading the Good News, but if we persist in forcing our ideas of how they should run their country can you blame them?
Where is the Love of Christ in that?

Online4Him »

Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:24 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

Dannygirlagain:

I am amazed that you condemn others who disagree with you while also demonstrating by your words an unchristian like spirit. You continue to defend a nation who has rejected Jesus Christ through their unbelief.

Online4Him »

Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:17 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Didymus:

I have noticed her irrational and extreme positions from our ongoing dialogue these past few days. I could understand if she had a reasonable and biblically sound argument. All I have received is extreme rhetorical statements and insults which will not give a positive message to other readers. How unfortunate, to say the least.

Oline4Him

didymus »

Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Dannygirl,

>What are talking about??
You know exactly what I’m talking about.

>Didn't you tell me to relax and have a beer?
Yes, I did. And I recommend that you have another one. Cheers!

>Don't you hangout with that gnosticgodslayer guy?
Sorry, I don’t know him, and I'm sorry I mistook you for a guy, but your unladylike comments made me think otherwise.

didymus »

Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:54 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Online4Him,

I don’t know if you noticed this yet but dannygirl is an extreme pro-Israel fanatic, were balance, understanding, and reason apparently mean nothing. His posts are so irrational that I have to wonder if he is even for real or if he is just pulling our leg.

If he is for real, he’s one of those folks who will happily destroy the village in order to save it. As evidenced by his numerous posts he will happily destroy Christianity, curse and condemn every Christian who posts (which he has so far done on every thread of commentary I’ve read so far), twist and misconstrue everything that is said so that nothing can be understood, all to supposedly defend an over the top extremist position that other ‘pro-Israel’ Christians, who have posted here, have been condemned as ‘anti-christ’ for not holding to.

In other words, he is just another one of those irrational extremists who is all too common in this Arab-Israeli conflict. The Palestinians have their suicide bombers, the Israelis have their illegal settlers, and we have folks like dannygirl.

Online4Him »

Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:26 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Dannygirlagain:

Once again you revert back to making false assumptions; I never said, “I would like to see Israel come to an end” or “I hate Israel and want to see them destroyed”. Why are you presuming to know what people are thinking? Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? You have failed to not only understand my speech, but you have also failed to understand what the New Testament says about “true Israel or the people of God”.

You referred me back to Romans 11, and yet you fail to understand the context of what is being said. Verse 31, 32 says, “Even so have these also now NOT BELIEVED, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in UNBELIEF, that he might have mercy upon all”. No one, including the Jews will obtain mercy without faith IN CHRIST. You are presuming that Israel according to the flesh (the collective Jewish nation) is saved despite the fact that the majority of them DENY Jesus Christ through UNBELIEF. Again, true Israel are BELIEVERS in Jesus Christ; which make up the Church.

Israel forfeited their status by rejecting Christ: Read the following passages, John 19:15 says, “But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.” Matthew 21:43 says, “Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from YOU, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”

Galatians 3:26-29 says, “For YE are all the children of God by FAITH in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all ONE in Christ Jesus. And IF ye be Christ's, THEN are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the PROMISE.

Israel certainly has a right to exist and co-exist with its neighbors but let us not forget that there are Christian Palestinians who follow Christ. We must continue to pray for all believers in Christ.

Online4Him »

Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Dannygirlagain:
God Almighty told Moses on Mount Sinai that “if” the Israelites obeyed His voice, “then” they would be “a peculiar treasure. . . .a kingdom of priests and an holy nation.” Exodus 19:5, 6. In his first letter to believers, Peter used these same words that God had spoken to Israel, and he applied them to the Church. “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, and holy nation, a peculiar people. . . .Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God.” 1Peter 2:9, 10.

In the Old Testament, God spoke about “Israel mine elect.” Isaiah 45:4. In the New Testament, Paul wrote “to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ” in Colosse (Colossians 1:2). After reminding them that that there is now “neither Greek nor Jew,” Paul then specifically told the believers that they were “the elect of God.” Colossians 3:11, 12.

Thus Peter and Paul agreed. They both took the exact words that God spoke in the Old Testament about Israel and applied them to the Jews and Gentiles who believe in Jesus Christ! They both taught that believing Jews and Gentiles, combined, “are now the people of God” (1Peter 2:9, 10; Colossians 3:11, 12; Galatians 6:16). The “two” are now “one” and are of “of the same body.” Ephesians 2:14-16; 3:6.

In regards to “salvation is of the Jews” – There is no 56-68 in Luke chapter 2. The exact phrase is in John 4:22. The Samaritans took the Pentateuch as their Bible and claimed to be more orthodox than the Jews, but they worshipped God blindly – they knew not what they worshipped- and therefore worshipped Him “in vain” (Mark 7:7). Jesus therefore affirms the absolute superiority of the Jewish religion, having already made it clear that that superiority is in no way related to the place of worship (John 4:21). It is best to read any passage in its context.

Online4Him »

Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Dannygirlagain:

First of all, it is presumptuous to call those who disagree with you (false Christians). It is also a false assumption to say to those who disagree with your theology as being haters of Israel. We are sharing our thoughts pertaining to the article at hand. Please, do not make it personal and take pot shots at those who disagree with you.

It is true that “all Israel shall be saved.” But, the big question is “Which Israel?” Who then is the “all Israel” in Romans 11:26? The answer is in the context. Paul wrote, “I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.” Verse 13, 14. Paul hoped that as the Gentiles responded to his preaching about the Messiah, that this would “provoke. . . . some” of his Jewish countrymen to re-examine the claims of Christ.

Hopefully, this would lead “some of them to believe in Jesus. Then this combined group of believing Jews and believing Gentiles would form the “all Israel” which shall be saved.

Now for the entire context. “For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.” Verses 25-27. The context clearly reveals that the “all Israel” in verse 26 is a united group of believing Jews and Gentiles who have responded to the gospel. To believe otherwise is to deny the context, reject “the mystery,” and to rebuild the wall that Jesus Christ died to abolish.

Online4Him »

Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:40 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Paul deals with this highly explosive issue in Romans 9:2-8. His words require careful thought. With “continual sorrow” in his heart, Paul wrote about his Jewish “kinsman according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises” Verses 2-4. God did make promises to Israel in the Old Testament. Yet, what if some Jews do not believe in Him? Can God fulfill His promises to an unbelieving Israel in the flesh? If not, has His Word failed?

Paul’s answer to these important questions is clear. “Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.” Verse 6. Notice that the concept of “two Israels” is Paul’s assurance that God’s Word will not fail! Look carefully: “They are not all Israel [the Israel of God], which are of Israel [the Jewish nation].” Thus a Jew can be of the Jewish nation, and yet not be part of the Israel of God. Now, here is the highly explosive question. To which Israel will God fulfill His promises?

Paul continues, “Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.” Verse 7. Since not all physical descendants of Abraham are automatically God’s children, therefore His promises are for those “in Isaac.” Abraham had two sons. The first was Ishmael, who was born when Abraham had failed in God’s promise (Genesis 16:1-3, 15; 21:1-3; Romans 4:18-21). In Galatians 4:22-31, Paul reveals that Ishmael represents unbelieving Jews, while Isaac represents both Jews and Gentiles who have faith! “Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.” Galatians 4:28. The children of promise are those who “receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” Galatians 3:14. Therefore, the Israel that is “in Isaac” is the Israel of God in the Spirit.

jeb1969 »

Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:00 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

When did the doctrine of Zionism enter "Christian" theology? From my reading this doctrine was "invented" in the late 1700's or early 1800's. Where do you find this doctrine before this in Christian writings? Everyone thinks he has the right to invent "new" interpretations of the scriptures, which is why we have over 35000 Protestant groups who all cliam to know what the bible says and can quote texts left and right to prove their intrepretation. (I once had an instructor in college who had heard a sermon in the '40's proving that rubber tires would be rationed during WWII.) The scriptures say that there should be "no private interpretation of scripture" which is the opposite of "corporate intrepretation". Zionism or the land of ancient Isral permeantly belongs to the Jewish nation is a modern invention (and therefore PRIVATE Interpretation) and such a doctrine is not found in the first 8 centuries. The early Christians believed that they were Israel and many of them lived in the land of ancient Isreal. The current nation of Israel continues to persecute indiginous Christians. Read the ancient writings of the Church (not Rome) and learn the history of the Church before 1000 AD and find the common ancient teaching of the Christian Church. Thanks jeb

JClovesJahweh »

Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I think it's time for me to go. I've done my part. I hope I caused a few people (especially the athiests) to consider more than their empty beliefs that lead only to the grave. I hope I made a few christians think as well - my hope was that they might see Christ deserves our all, and no man whatsoever is to be trusted. Take care. I'm not coming back to this site. Jesus is coming. His reward is with him. Hold on to the cross with all your might, no matter what people say or do, be they Christian or non-Christian. The bridegrooms door will open and shut in the blinking of an eye, and it will be closed forever. Don't waste your time doing something the Lord doesn't want you to be doing. He has a great reward for those whom he finds so doing upon his return. He will put you in charge of many of his possessions. God bless and be well. To God be the glory. Bye.

JClovesJahweh »

Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:07 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Well, we will surely know, when Christ's feet touch the Mount of Olives and he saves Israel from its own foolishness. I am sad that you prefer to believe the Religious Right. But this is your decision. They will fail you. They will disappoint you. "Woe to the man who trusts in man." Don't you see? The Religious Right will betray you. I just hope the Lord can give you the stregth and the grace to stand firm in Jesus. Those you trust in, God is jealous of. He will put your faith to the test, my friend. Be prepared for the shock of your life. Be ready for anything. But, alas, you've decided I am not a Christian and my advice is worthless. Very well. I am not offended. Not at all. It's actually quite fine. In fact, this is the very first time someone from the RR has challenged me. It makes me feel a little odd but I'll work it out with God's help. I am supposed to be glad and jump up and down for joy when someone calls me evil. I am not following Jesus's advice. I am not jumping up and down for joy - I am saddened. But then jumping up and down was never my way of expressing myself. God forgive me. There's a song written by CS Megaphone, "If God's approval is what I seek, yeah, then your disapproval doesn't bother me at all." These lyrics mean more to me now than they ever did. Thank you. God bless you. May the Lord make his face to shine upon you, Dannygirl. May he protect you from all evil, and give you the strength to stand firm in your darkest hour. Lord knows I cannot help you, so it's gonna have to be him who does.

JClovesJahweh »

Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:29 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

A little clarification: a Chrsitian must be willing to give up everything to follow Christ. This means his possessions, his family, his church (if they reject him that is), his nation, this whole world, and his very life. This is my point. A Christian cannot obey men if it makes him disobey God. if the Religious Right is telling Christians to do wrong, a Christian must leave them and find a better situation, even if it means (as many an OT prophet found out) sleeping in holes in the ground. You have to question what men are asking you to do and see past their smiling faces, and find out if such a thing is what God wants you to do. You have to question my dear, you cannot follow the blind, you will fall into the same pit they will fall into. If you keep your eyes on Jesus and don't let men distract you, then you are on the right path.

JClovesJahweh »

Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:20 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

The Apostle Paul said he counted everything as garbage for the sake of winning Christ, his heritage, his very life he deemed as nothing in order to gran hold of Jesus. He gave up being a Levite to get close to Jesus, don't you see? Your teachers are tellign you Israel is more important than following God. Don't buy into it. You really do not understand the scriptures, my dear. God will take care of Israel. Israel never needed anyone else's help but his. So try to understand that we must first and foremost be servants of God. Jesus gave up being the king of Israel to be able to sit at the right hand of God - going on two thousand years now. Amazing. If you can understand this, you might move on to being a self-sufficient, mature Christian. God is most important, and if he says, as he has said many times, that he would completely destroy Israel himself (check the story of Moses who prayedthat God would have mercy on Israel and not completely destroy it) then following God's will is what is important. "Not my will but thy will be done." Stop focusing on Israel. God will take care of Israel better than you or I, or any false prophet that exists within the movement called the Religious Right. And many of their prophecies have come to nothing - which therefore makes them false and phoney and if they continue their lies - condemned to hell forever and ever. I hope you understand one day. Jesus himself will do only what his Father desires, and if that means casting men into hell then he will do it without question, without looking back. Try to understand the dynamics of what is going on here. Only God is right. I am wrong, you are wrong, Israel is wrong, America is wrong. Don't you get it? What God says goes.

JClovesJahweh »

Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:02 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Dispensationalism? Are you kidding? We never had to worry about any of this. The Lord told us to love one another and wait for him, that's all we were told to do. Who cares about the rest of it, which will happen whether we want it to or not? Who cares? Keep oil in your lamps, Jesus said. Why do I have to study the age of law, the age of grace, the age of judgement, the age of peace, and eternity? What does any of that have to do with the price of rice in China? All I have to know is that this present age is evil. Keep your Dispensationalism and your maps and your Rapture Wall-Posters which sell for what nowadays? $15.99 ??? Give us a break.

polemos »

Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:11 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Dispensationalism
http://polemos.net/Dispensationalism.html

JClovesJahweh »

Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:56 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I agree that "spiritual Israel" will receive the promises, but, God will not abandon the physical nation of Israel, he will use it to show the whole world that he is greater than anything the nations of the world can set up against it. This is really bad new for those who hate Israel and seek to destroy it. God will show how powerful he is. I once heard a story, though I don't know how true it is. That Israel was at war and its enemies were coming against it, and a swarm of insects, locusts of something or other, chased away the enemy. Now this could be pure myth, modern urban legend, but if you think this is impossible you had better think again. Israel's enemies are dealing with a nation that worships the true God of this universe and are in great danger. You can go up against an idol-worshipping culture and laugh at the fact that its people warn you that some weird-looking idol will seek vengeance on you for your deeds, but, do not play games with the Living God and expect to get away with it in this life or the next. Anyone who does this is blind and knows not what is in store for him. If you give weapons to Israel's enemies, you had better be prepared to face the consequences.

Online4Him »

Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

(Sorry) - Here is the last sentence in its entirety:

Every Jew, Palestinian, etc. are invited to accept Christ as savior and thereby becoming part of spiritual Israel.

Online4Him »

Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

The Bible speaks of two Israel's: one according to the flesh and one according to the spirit! Read the entire chapter of Romans 9. Verse 8 reads: "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these ARE NOT the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Continue reading verses 31-33; this chapter is saying that TRUE Israel is they who have accepted Jesus Christ by FAITH.

By putting special recognition on the present state of Israel, we are misreading the New Testament's emphasis on the true people of God. All who put their trust in Jesus Christ become the true people of God (Galatians 3:26-29). Every Jew, Palestinian, etc. are invited to accept Christ as savior and thereby becoming part of

JClovesJahweh »

Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

All men must pay for their sins and cannot tell God others made them do it. They cannot tell God they had to leave the faith and join another religion to save their necks. They have no excuse for throwing babies and catching them with the tips of swords as was done in previous warrior cultures. Jew, Palestinian, Christian, Hindu, it matters not what you are, you will stand before God and be judged for you deeds, be they good or bad. John Wayne will tremble before God and not speak arrogantly towards him as some fool once suggested. Get it straight, God is against sin and it matters not who commits the sin - God will ask him to account for himself, whether the act was in self-defense or for revenge. It is guaranteed - we are in big trouble.

JClovesJahweh »

Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:26 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I'm going to give you guys an example of something and then I'd like any of you to reply ...

Let's say I'm a very rich man (which I am not, thank God), and I take a look at your neighborhood and believe things need to be changed. So, a package arrives from me at your doorstep with a note saying, "Something bad is going to happen, use these to defend yourself." You open the package and see that there are more uzi machineguns than you can carry and enough ammo to start World War III. The same day an even bigger package of weapons arrives at the hangout of the local Motorcycle Gang with a note saying, "The blacks are coming, arm yourslves." Then weapons are sent to churches, bars, even little kids in the street receive hand grenades, all at my expense. Old ladies have Magnums in their purses, old men have canes with knives that pop out of their tips, and I go on teevee to make a speech. "Hello, ladies and gentlemen," I say, "what I did for your town was in your best interest, and for your own good health. Have a nice day. Btw, the blacks said the whites stink." So, how is this any different from what is now being done in the Middle East? The Jews bought weapons, now the Saudis will get special weapons that can disable many of the Jews' defenses. The only conclusion we can come to is that America WANTS them to kill each other. And they are hiding behind many faithful, righteous, and sincere Zionists to accomplish all of this.

God cannot possibly be happy with this. If they think they can wipe Israel off the map by without doing it themselves and making someone else do it, they are greatly mistaken. God knows their plans and he will thwart them, and make their plans backfire on them. The enemy of Israel is the enemy of God, and it does not matter if Israel commits great sins (he will deal with Israel's sins eventually), God is going to keep his promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He will also avenge the prophets who were murdered. Even though Christ's death became our salvation, those who killed him are in for a punishment that has not even been described. Those who killed the Apostles will also pay. Those who threw the Christians to the lions are still waiting in another dimension for God to judge them.

cherub1133@yeshua »

Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:50 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

I am a Jew and I want to say God bless Mr. Hutchens for his support all Jews all over this land and our homeland Israel. We are not a mislead people and I want to remind those of you who think we are mislead. God of our father Abraham has blinded us for only a season, but OUR promise still remains to be fulfilled. I'm a born again Jew and I stand with my people Israel and I thank Yeshua for John Hagee and his boldness to make his heart known to the world on behalf of the Jewish people.We attended the July Israeli Summit in Washington DC and I will never forget the people of America and this great land for taking the time to attend.Please don't take our land away and give it to the Palestines. Israel belongs to the Jewish people.Mr. Gnostic go back and read the almighty word of G-d. cherub1133@yeshua

didymus »

Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Yes, Dannygirl, relax. God will take care of everything. Kick back, have a beer, hang out with us sinners for while. Grace us with your saintliness, and share some of that agape love with us just as Jesus did.

JClovesJahweh »

Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

One would think from the following verses that God is a anti-semite, when what he actually is is anti-sin ...

Ezekiel 5

5 "This is what the Sovereign LORD says: This is Jerusalem, which I have set in the center of the nations, with countries all around her. 6 Yet in her wickedness she has rebelled against my laws and decrees more than the nations and countries around her. She has rejected my laws and has not followed my decrees.

7 "Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: You have been more unruly than the nations around you and have not followed my decrees or kept my laws. You have not even [a] conformed to the standards of the nations around you.

8 "Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I myself am against you, Jerusalem, and I will inflict punishment on you in the sight of the nations. 9 Because of all your detestable idols, I will do to you what I have never done before and will never do again. 10 Therefore in your midst fathers will eat their children, and children will eat their fathers. I will inflict punishment on you and will scatter all your survivors to the winds. 11 Therefore as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, because you have defiled my sanctuary with all your vile images and detestable practices, I myself will withdraw my favor; I will not look on you with pity or spare you. 12 A third of your people will die of the plague or perish by famine inside you; a third will fall by the sword outside your walls; and a third I will scatter to the winds and pursue with drawn sword.

13 "Then my anger will cease and my wrath against them will subside, and I will be avenged. And when I have spent my wrath upon them, they will know that I the LORD have spoken in my zeal.

14 "I will make you a ruin and a reproach among the nations around you, in the sight of all who pass by. 15 You will be a reproach and a taunt, a warning and an object of horror to the nations around you when I inflict punishment on you in anger and in wrath and with stinging rebuke. I the LORD have spoken. 16 When I shoot at you with my deadly and destructive arrows of famine, I will shoot to destroy you. I will bring more and more famine upon you and cut off your supply of food. 17 I will send famine and wild beasts against you, and they will leave you childless. Plague and bloodshed will sweep through you, and I will bring the sword against you. I the LORD have spoken."

JClovesJahweh »

Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Dannygirl, how can I hate the Jews? My Savior is a Jew, my wife is a Jew, my favorite book was written by Jews (and one or two Greeks - how did they get in there?) and some of my best therapists were Jews too. Dannygirl, it's fine. Relax.

didymus »

Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Dannygirl,

I have not seen someone so hyper-judgmental as you in a while, I wonder if you’re just kidding, since you display absolutely no mercy or grace toward anyone. You have condemned everyone, except yourself.

JClovesJahweh »

Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:33 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I think you would have to speak to a Jew who was given millions by the Religious Right to see exactly what he did with it. But I don't know anyone specific, so the search will have to be your own. Be prepared for the worst, okay? One clue would be the minister called Hagee, but I will say no more. I saw the Palestinians sancing in the streets, I was shocked, then I simply felt sorry for them. I read two differenrt accounts of that teacher who was "forced to convert to Islam" in one she was forced in the other she did it willingly. I don't know who to believe. And you can count that the Religious Right if they took over America for Jesus would try to force people to become Christians - it be the Spanish Inquisition all over again - God forbid. They have said so, all you have to do is read their speeches. You see? Now you've gone and made me tell you rather ugly things about people you trust in and count on to tell you the truth. Well, maybe your faith can handle it. I don't know. Am I a Christian? Yes. But not if you were to ask your ministers, they would say no. But I don't care what they say. I know my redeemer lives, and I know he rescued me from a fate worse than death. I know no man or woman can separate me from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. I also don't care if the Muslims come, or the Communists, or the Ugly Americans, or the Chinese. If God is for me, who can be against me? Take care. And don't you worry about my soul - I will take care of that. Weep for your own soul and for the souls of your loved ones. If you trust in no man, no man can possibly disappoint you.

JClovesJahweh »

Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:19 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

Dannygirl, thank you for your kind words. I try to pray for Israel every day, but, I dislike that Chrsitians are giving them money to buy weapons of destruction, or simply handing such weapons to them. My whole point being thatIsrael never needed our help, if they only trust in their God he will save them with a mighty hand. He has opened the Red Sea for them, made water come out of a rock for them, burned their enemies with fire. Israel needs no one's help, all they have to do is cry out to their god and their enemies had better flee to the holes where they came from, be they Muslim or American, it does not matter. Everything has been built up for this very purpose. God is going to surprise a rather unbelieving world. He will strike their hearts with such terror that they will literally hide in caves. And the whole world will know that the Lord God of Israel is the true God of this earth, and that his Son is the true Savior of it. I don't want to argue about Zionism, it will fail and those who have helped Israel kill Palestinian children - their children will be killed likewise. What they have sowed they will reap. This is what I believe. I will not ehlp Israel commit any evil, God will punish me greatly if I do any such thing. I have already tasted his punishment and have no desire to do so again. He has put a great fear of himself into my heart, and I thank him for it, but it was not a pleasant lesson to learn, in fact it was quite terrifying. At my most vulnerable moment the devil took time off his very busy schedule to kick me while I was down; however, God lifted me up and sent a messenger with a precious message for me that saved me from ruin. Why did God have mercy on me? I don't really know. God bless you, Dannygirl. He will be there for you in your darkest hour. Hang on to the cross, it's almost over. Keep waiting no matter what happens, no matter what anybody says or does. May the Lord hold you in his hands forever and ever and never let you go.

JClovesJahweh »

Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

So, GGS, the actions of men determine what your religion is going to be? What difference does it make if there are zero amount of Christians in the Middle East? I will give you an example, years ago a minister cursed me, told me that I know nothing. I was shocked, not expecting a man of God to say such a thing to me, since a man of god knows that Christ said Christians should not say such things, we are supposed to return blessings for curses. So, I walked out, I left Christinaity for tweinty years, and used this incident as a good reason for staying away. But something nagged at me one day, during my days of backsliding, and it was this awful question: What did Jesus himself have to do with what that minister said to me? I couldn't get this question out of my head. I also had to be honest with myself in that I never wanted to get married, I truly wanted to live a life of fornication. I also had returned to drugs, I discovered alcohol. I dleved into blasphemy and several other ungodly things. After leaving, my life had become worse than before I had joined the church. What all of this that minister's fault or mine? I had to be honest and conclude that I had done wrong and I was no better than that cursing minister. It was a hard blow to my ego. So, explain to me how the sins of christians have determined what you are to believe. I really want to hear this story, it sounds interesting. I have told you mine, please tell me yours.

Gnostic GodSlayer »

Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

There were 600,000 christian palestinians in the occupied territories in 1967, and now there are 23,000. Where did they go? Are christian zionist responsible for this appearent callousness? It is one of the many reasons that lead me to the true christ, the Gnostic Christ.

JClovesJahweh »

Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I don't know how old Dannygirl is. I've no idea how much evil Dannygirl has seen or not that takes place within the church of God, or if Dannygirl is aware that evil has, down through the centuries, been done in God's very name. It's difficult to get into the details, I have to refrain from speaking, lest Dannygirl end up being disappointed in Christianity and end up leaving the Lord. Dannygirl, God love you and keep you in his care. May his great strength protect you and may his holy spirit shield you. May God be your strength and your fortress. I don't agree with you but that means nothing at this point. I cannot stop to argue about such things anymore because the bridegroom is getting ready to open the door and I'm afraid I will be caught unprepared. So even though I disagree with almost everything you wrote I can't talk to you about it. There is no time. Time, it seems, has run out. The bridegroom's door will open and close, and it will be open for only a fraction of a second, however long it takes for an eye to blink - and I'm sacred, so very scared for my soul. This is selfish, I know. But Christ commands us to be selfish for our souls. I cannot save yours. You cannot save mine. Only Jesus can save. And he tells us to watch and wait. I've argued with many people and my energy is running low, very low. My oil is running low and I can't share no more of it without running out of it completely. I hope you are ready when the Lord arrives. I hope I myself am ready. If he delays, remember, don't eat and drink with sinners and beat your fellow servants, that is a sure way to be assigned a place with the hypocrites - whatever that turns out to be. Enthusiasm running low, energy failing, too exhausted, Gospel shared with many and many more left to speak to, lawlessness increasing - hearts are growing colder, hold on, hold on, not too much longer and he will be here. And it will be up to him to give us the strength to fly like eagles. Lord knows I've got so little energy that I crawl like some worm. This evil world makes me tired. I've seen too much evil. And there's more to come. God have mercy.

didymus »

Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:21 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

In regards to dannygirl’s diatribe:

“Palestine is anti Christ” – this is hate!

“Only a foolish phony unforgiving and prideful so-called Christian would be for a Palestian government which is agaist Christ himself” – this is hate speech!

“For a Christian to ignore this just proves my point. You are a phony. You are anti Christ. You do not know the Lord. You are not saved. And you are arrogant. False Christian you are the best friend of the devil himself.” – And this is just plain ignorance talking.

So much for Christ’s command to love and pray even for our enemies who persecute us (Matthew 5:43-48).

dannygirl »

Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:14 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

Correction: "Award-winning talk show host Janet Parshall is an example of a long-time pro-Israel Christian leader who has recently come to criticize the state." Janet parshall's only critizism was about the Israeli Governments perecution of Chrisitan evangelism in Israel and John Hagee's foolish compromise stating the Jewish people do not have to come to salvation in through Jesus Christ.

Janet Parshall has great love for Israel. Her stand is biblically based. "Those that call upon the Lord (Jesus) will be said. Christ Jesus is first for the Jew, in only they would see, and then for the Gentile. 1cor 2. This is not to put Jews above Gentiles. Whether jews or Gentile all are one in Christ Jesus. But as Christian how can we be for a Anti Christ Muslim goverment over the Jewish people who are the Lord Jesus's brethern after the flesh? Palestine is anti Christ. There is no Palestine in the new testament. Regarding "Palestine" it was and has always been evil in the sight of the Lord in the Tenach portion of the bible. To support a Palestine government is support the evil religion of phony peace Islam. Islam means submission. Muslim means forced to submit. A slave to islam. Jesus (Yashua) means Jehovah saves. Christian (christ-Savior) means in essence (saved by Christ). To help or support a false palestine government is to help the devil. Is 14 Worm Wood.

Only a foolish phony unforgiving and prideful so-called Christian would be for a Palestian government which is agaist Christ himself. A mosque where the temple of Solomon once stood. God's word says he will bless those that bless Israel. He will curse those who cursed. If you speak against Israel you are cursed.

Roman 11 warns prideful foolish arrogant hard hearted anti semietic Christians no to boast against the natural brances. God can graph the back in again and cut us out. Luke 2:56-68 "the God of Israel". If you deny what the tenach portion says about Israel you are against the Word of god Himself. New testament or Tenach, we are not to boast against the natural branches.

Muslims in Gaza are persecuting Christians in Gaza. Muslims are persecuting Christians world wide. So let me understand this. The Lord Jesus Our God died on the Cross sheeding his Holy precious blood for the sins of the world, for so-called Christians can help and support a Anti Christ government who is persecuting Christians? There is a mosque where the temple of Solomon once stood. The romans destroyed the temple, exiled the Jews from Israel, and called it Palestine. The Romans actually stoled it from them. Palestine is Anti Christ.

For a Christian to ignore this just proves my point. You are a phony. You are anti Christ. You do not know the Lord. You are not saved. And you are arrogant. False Christian you are the best friend of the devil himself.

Danny

kscott »

Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:14 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

We might do well to remember that one of the ancient church fathers, Origen, said, "Zion represents Heaven." Seems to me it is not about who gets the land--it is about who attains Heaven--and it is only those who have Christ as their Savior. And those who have Christ as their Savior are commanded by Christ to feed the hungry, give shelter to the homeless, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned, etc. For if they do, they do it to Christ and if they fail to do it they fail to do it to Christ and if they fail to do it to Christ they fail to keep the law of love and Hell is their lot. The Palestinians are among the hungry, the naked, the sick and (sometimes unjustly) imprisoned, those in need of shelter and a land. Christians cannot turn their back on the Palestinians nor should they blindly support all Isreali policies. Rather, work for a just settlement for all parties involved.

JClovesJahweh »

Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Certainly God gave the land to the Jews. But consider this ... a prophet always appeared before Israel was dispersded to warn them that if they did not turn from their evil ways a foreign power would kill them, carry them off and/or scatter them. Such men were Isaiah and Jeremiah. Then prophets appeared to restore them, such men were Ezra and Nehemiah. There are no other records of any other prophets foretelling the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. except for Jesus of Nazareth. And, truly consider this, please, no prophets appeared when Israel was restored in m modern times. Modern day Israel is not sanctioned by the God of Israel. It was simply foretold by the prophets of old that Israel would be restored and the temple rebuilt and the sacrificial system reinstated. There HAS to be a prophet for a temple to be rebuilt. This prophet's predictions have to be right 100% of the time, always correct, always precise, always perfect - because his information does not come from himself but from a being that knows everything. Expect many false prophets to rise up soon, working signs and wonders: fire falling from the sky kind of signs. But the one that will make the temple be rebuilt will most likely be the Beast's False Prophet - I am only guessing here but this seems the most likely person to pull this off. Just be guaranteed that Israel will be deceived into thinking all is well with their actions, but, Jesus said when people says "Peace and safety" that is exactly when the worst will happen and none shall escape. Let us be the keepers of His Words and show the Father that we love the Son. "Kiss the Son lest ye perish." The only one to make Israel what it is supposed tobe will be the True Messiah, and only with his influence shall the lion lie down with the lamb, shall men beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks and learn war no more, and shall peace itself expand forever and ever. Tough times are coming. Don't buy any of the lies and signs and wonders. Keep your eyes fixed on the cross of Jesus no matter what anybody says or does, no matter if fellow Christians you loved and trusted leave the Lord and join the anti-Christ, no matter if the heavens shake and the seas boil and the stars fall from heaven and sun ceases to shine and the moon turns to blood. Keep your lamp filled with oil and be one of the blessed the Lord finds so doing when he returns. And work while it is still day, for the night comes when no man can work. God bless you all. Even so come Lord Jesus.

artm »

Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Tell God He gave them the land. art

didymus »

Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I find it very difficult to even consider CUFI as a ‘Christian’ organization. It is advocating a policy of apartheid at the very least, and possibly even genocide, against Palestinians, and has advocated for war against Iran. I applaud the evangelical leaders who signed the letter opposing CUFI and the Christian Zionists. Honestly, Christian Zionism needs to be denounced as heretical, as a cancer in evangelical churches. Advocating violence and murderous political policies should never be labeled ‘Christian’.

artm »

Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

While God vertainly does Love the Palestinian people,and the Church better Love them also, But the fact still remains that Israel is the Land of the Jew.

And anyone who endeavers to change that will find themselves on the wrong side of God. Art.

JClovesJahweh »

Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

You can't be a Christian and exclude anyone from having a roof over their head and food on their table. Any Christian who loves not his neighbor is not following the way of Christ. Jesus would have fed the Palestinians as well as Israel. Is not Jesus the Savior of all men? Is not Jesus the Savior of South Koreans as well as the Religious Right? For God so loved the world? If a man sows what he reaps then the likes of this Dr. Jim Hutchens and his followers will find that their own homes will be taken away and they shall have no country to call their own - this is a spiritual law that cannot be avoided. We Christians along with Abraham and Moses wait for a heavenly Jerusalem, one not made with human hands. Everyone in the Middle East is fighting over something that will one day pass away and be no more. I have no desire to visit Israel until my Lord Jesus returns on a cloud in the sky and his feet touch the Mount of Olives - then and only then will it be time to go learn the ways of the Lord God of Israel. Right now, they are all chasing a wind they will never catch. To God be all the glory. May God be given the credit for all our gifts. There is nothing a man has recieved that God did not give to him. "Woe to the man who trusts in man."

artm »

Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:10 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Israel is what it has always been," the apple of Gods eye." The fact that Israel denies and rejects Christ, has been and is the reason that they have suffered as they have.

But that does not change the fact that God has chosen them as His People and Land.

God will deal with Israel, But He says to the World and Christians alike,hands off. As a people they certainly do not have wings or a halo, No doubt they do much that is wrong,encluding ban the Gospel of Christ.

But God commands the Church to " pray for the peace of Jerusalem." Whatever side of this fence you fall on, Know that you know. Because whosoever touches Israel,Touches God. Art.

pburwell »

Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:42 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

“I would suggest that the basic theological underpinning of this is super-cessionism,” he said, according to OneNewsNow, “and that is to say that the church is the new Israel, that Christians have replaced Jews as the covenant people of God … [and that] the covenants that God made with Israel and the Jews are now null and void because they have not accepted Jesus as the Messiah.”
And that would be correct... Paul said it clearly that he is a Jew who acknowledges Jesus as the Messiah, and he is not a Jew who denies Jesus is the Messiah.
You cannot get much clearer than that.
But it is also clear that Yahweh will send 144,000 witnesses to Israel, 12,000 from each tribe of Israel, to testify to them that may, once again, be grafted back into the Vine of God's Promise.
but those who reject Yeshua will be rejected by Yahweh. In this point there can be no doubt.

robinhooud »

Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:17 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Politicians can choose to silence whom they want. States and state organs are not necessarily brothers in faith, hardly so. No reason for "evangelicals" to become politicians. Why try to do the president's job? God takes care of Israel, so why oppose Israel? That, of course, is suicidal not only for lunatic or fanatic bombers. If you can't do anything, better pray and keep away from politics.