Updated 12:19 pm.EST, Mon November 23, 2009

Church|Fri, Aug. 24 2007 03:09 PM EDT

Black Believers Debate Prosperity Gospel

By Audrey Barrick|Christian Post Reporter

Jakes is one of the nation's most well-known preachers and heads The Potter's House, a predominantly African American megachurch in the Dallas area.

"I don't think there is any such thing, truly, as prosperity gospel," he told Religion & Ethics Newsweekly. "It's just a tag that we put on an extreme point of view."

"I'm not against marching," Jakes continued, "but in the '60s the challenge of the black church was to march. And there are times now perhaps that we may need to march. But there's more facing us than social justice. There's personal responsibility, motivating and equipping people to live the best lives that they can really does help them to live the scriptures and to bring them to life."

Offering one explanation for the rise in the prosperity message in black churches, Michael Eric Dyson, professor at Georgetown University, said it's a way to "justify black upward mobility and middle class existence without feeling guilty."

"The civil rights movement said, 'You are responsible for your brother and sister. You ought to bring them along.' The prosperity gospel says, 'Your brother or sister is responsible for him or herself, and what they should be doing is praying right, so that God can bless them, too,'" Dyson said, according to Religion & Ethics Newsweekly.

Franklin says the achievements of the African American community are losing ground, especially among church leaders who have shifted more focus onto individual achievement.

As the most accomplished generation of black Americans, we could and should do more to renew our villages (African American communities), Franklin said.

That includes helping the poor. According to Franklin, one-fourth of the black community lives in poverty.

While Franklin acknowledges the significant charitable giving and efforts of megachurches and other churches, he said there's still something missing.

It's "the role of the church as a prophetic force in society, amplifying the voice of the poor and the voiceless," he pointed out, "and it's that justice note that's missing in much of the prosperity gospel appeal," he said in the PBS news program.

Christian Post reporter Eric Young in Washington contributed to this report.

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  • Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    This is Prophet Eric Seel of the Apostle's center international School of ministry. The Lord has shown me that there will be a judgment against these false teachers. Now the Government is starting to investigate these priests of Baal. We should remember what the Apostle Paul told us concerning the last days that many would heap up to themselves teachers who would appeal to their itching ears. A heap is no small measure. Today we have hundreds of thousands of false teachers and ministers who proclaim to teach the covenant of Christ. Instead these are teachers who teach according to their own aspirations. There are no ministers who understand the true pattern of the Covenant of Christ or about the regeneration of the soul and the renewing of the mind. Be prepared much more judgment will come against false teachers. Paula White, Dollar, Price, Copeland and many others will be exposed for what they are. White washed tombs filled with dead men's bones.
    Prophet Seel

  • Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:07 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Deut 15:11
    There will always be poor people on the land, therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.
    Matthew 2:11
    "The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me."

  • Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:55 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    People wake up these pastor don't care about the community thier churches are in they don't in live in the community were their churches are located. Poll the congregation and you will see that only the people in the pastor click prosper. They are not teaching the people how to prosper they are cheating the people. The hop in the fancy cars after church on Sunday and go home to their mansions on the other side of town. I was in a church on it's way to mega status come to find out the Pastor stood in the pulpit and lied every Sunday. He was cheating and beating on his wife who finally divorced him and is coming out with her own book. It's pure DECEPTION! THe wife told me out of her own mouth that we were "DECEIVED" the pastor her husband wasn't drawing the people to God but himself for control. The person that stated "men were given wealth by God for being obedient and it is not guaranteed to everyone" well that isn't what Fred Price said above he said it's for everyone! Oh and MRHARPER you are comparing the world to the church. How much does the man or woman of God need? I had to have a major surgery and couldn't work my husband and I got behind on our mortgage we went to the church that we fatihful gave to and was DENIED help. The pastor even said he was going to get a big red stamp that says DENIED when people come there asking for help! The assistant pastor actually sent us to a Bankruptcy Attorney. We "sowed seeds" or so they called it, into the Pastor & his wife life on a weekly basis along with our tithes & offerings, yet when we needed help we couldn't get it from the church. And get this we went to credit counseling and they told us we were giving to much money to the church. We thought they were crazy because we were taught something totally different. But they were right. We are no longer at that ministry and a lot of people left after the pastor divorced his wife of 21 years but taught you were stuck in marriage. People were getting divorced and losing their homes and don't get me wrong I am not saying it was the Pastor's fault but it was the false teaching. Please people listen to these men they are teaching people wrong. They are teaching you to "work the Word of God." You don't work the word of God you do the word of God. God is not a "jeanie in a bottle" He is a loving God. Just think were most of us we be today if our teachers taught us the wrong thing in school! Read the bible, study & meditate on it day and night so that you will not be tricked by these "SNAKES IN THE PULPIT!"

  • Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:04 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

    WHAT PROFITED A MAN TO GAIN AND LOSE HIS SOUL. IF WE HAVE AN ABOUNDANCE FEED THE HUNGRY AND STOP STORING UP FOR YOUSELVES. JESUS TOLD THE RICH MAN TO SEEL ALL THAT HE HAS AND FOLLOW ME.

  • Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:44 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 14

    While you guys are debating whether or not a pastor should live a lavish lifestyle, please consider asking God to give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of his Word. The Bible states that if we know how to give good gifts to our children how much more will our heavenly father give unto his children. According to II Corinthians 8:9 "though Christ was rich, yet for our sakes he became poor, that through his poverty we might become rich. To reject prosperity is to reject one of the reasons Christ gave up his life. Don't be deceived by what others are saying, you've been redeemed from the curse of the law; which was spiritual death, sickness and disease, and POVERTY AND LACK!!!! So the blessing of Abraham my come on the Gentile. As you know the blessing of Abraham made him VERY rich. Prosperity is available to every believer, God has no limits, his riches are boundless, fathomless, endless, inexhaustible, and incalculable. This is part of your inheritance, read the word for what it says not from what tradition has taught you....God Bless

  • Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:13 am Agree: 17   Disagree: 4

    There are so many scriptures you could quote on this one, but the most powerful: "And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!" Luke 18:24. Along with, Luke 16:11, Mark 4:19, 10:23, James 5:1,2, Heb 11:26, 1 Tim 6:17.
    Listen to what these men are preaching! They aren't preaching Jesus Christ crucified, buried, resurrected, the judgment to come, the pains of the Christian life and how we're to go out and share our faith, or holiness for God - they're not preaching even basic doctrine of the faith! Their only preaching prosperity - they don't serve the very God of the scriptures they preach from when they do it but their own bellies! God cares very little about our works, but our faith most importantly.
    All of the preachers quoted therein are out of a wind of doctrine called the Word of Faith movement. We should be seeking sound doctrine! The sign of an apostle was his suffering - this differentiated Paul from false apostles. These men aren't proving their ministries - there's no suffering on their part, they're living in luxury, robbing the glory of the Gospel. This is Paul's riches:
    "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" Romans 11:33
    Please, check these men out - they're definately not preaching what they're supposed to preach. There's no call to discern false doctrine with them, and they're certainly not going to give any time in their pulpits to the things of God - it's all about me, me, me!

  • Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:39 am Agree: 10   Disagree: 4

    There is NO sin in having money by itself. It's the FOCUS on prosperity that these speakers drive that is the issue. Men in the Bible were given wealth by God because they were OBEDIENT...it is not guaranteed to everyone. God has a specific plan for each of us and it doesn't necessary include financial wealth. Our position as Christians should be to love the Lord enough to OBEY His word, consecrate ourselves completely to Him and accept ANY blessings He chooses to give us. But frankly, shouldn't the unearned, undeserved gift of eternal salvation be enough?????

  • Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:54 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Agreed BOC560. Perhaps we are in fact, that Laodicean Church Age... Just another sign of the End Times. We should all be examining ourselves right now to determine if we will make it through that 'narrow gate.' - http://tribulation.fm - Spread the Word.

  • Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:27 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I thank you for your reply. God Bless

  • Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:26 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 8

    It's just hard for me to understand that it's ok for someone to have millions of dollars with nice cars big homes, million dollar companys and its ok because of the kind of job they have. But if a ministor works in the church spreading the GOOD NEWS and has wealth at the same time and teaches people how they have gotten wealth Gods way using the bible as a map, people say this person has left God and is letting money rule their life. If I were to give anyone who reads this log two million dollars, would you take it? What if you buy a nice big house and a new car with the money or even put it in the stock market and double it? If you do, then now you are a wealthy person in the eyes of the world and you have turnned your life away from God. If you dont take it, then your staying humble but you just passed up a blessing from the Lord. The bible says that "God will open up the windows of heaven an pour out blessings that you wont have room enough to receave and to try Him in this" Malachi 3:10 That means overflow in my life here on earth. (tith and offering). Its just hard for me to understand that's all.
    ECCLESIASTES 10:19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth "ALL THINGS".
    1 TIMOTHY 6:10 For the "LOVE" of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

  • Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:12 pm Agree: 12   Disagree: 0

    Preaching that Christians SHOULD be rich in my opinion smacks with personal pride. It's like majoring in the minors...issues that mean nothing in the light of eternity. We are to save souls not heap up big bank accounts. God blesses us so that we may BE a blessing to others. Let's not focus on "claiming Cadilacs from God" but plead for lost souls in prayer...what a concept huh?! The Lord Jesus Christ did not come to earth so we may pad our wallets, but that we can "know the one true living God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent", and "go out into the world making disciples"...so how about it?!

  • Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:16 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 1

    MRH - You gave excellent examples of rich men who were very devout, Abraham and David. But what about Solomon. His fabulous wealth drew him away from God. What about good king Hezekiah. God blessed him with great wealth, and even got him out of a jam with nasty king Sennacherib. But when he showed off his wealth to the ambassadors from Babylon, God pointed out that his wealth is a fleeting thing (check this story out in 2 Kings 20: 12-19). What about Mary and Joseph. They were dirt poor, but they had the best to offer, making Mary wax poetic and acknowledge, "He has filled the hungry with good things, but the rich he sent away empty." (Luke 1:53). What about the rich young man of Matt 19: 16-22, who, by his own admission was a fairly pius fellow until Jesus asked him to give it all away to the poor and follow him. He went away sad.
    I guess I'm trying to say that, if God has blessed you materially, thank Him for this priviledge He doesn't grant to everyone. Take on the responsibility of being a moneyed believer. But see that happiness is not colored green.
    There is a bit of grand wisdom in Proverb 30: 7-9; neither poverty or riches, since both offer temptations to reject or forget God.

  • Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:52 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

    DAVID WAS KING AND HE WAS THE APPLE OF GODS EYE. "KING" THAT MEANS HAS ALL THE WEALTH.

  • Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:50 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 7

    I'm a christian and I have money and I'm head over the mens group at my church. So because i have money and live things that cost a lot then that means the Lord is not the head of my life?

  • Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:48 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 3

    SO WHAT IS THE SALARY CAP FOR A CHRISTIAN?

  • Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:38 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    The proof is in the pudding. Any minister who earns upwards to 1 million a year is not serving the Lord for the Lord's sake, but he's serving the Lord for his/her own sake. Why does anyone need that much money to live on? Just look at what they're spending their money on. How can this extravagant lifestyle be righteous or an example of humility?

    Matthew 7:15-23

  • Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:45 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

    Does anyone know the story of Abraham? God made a covenant with Abraham and his descendants to get wealth. The bible said Abraham was very rich. So rich that the people of the land asked him to leave their land because his wealth was so great. The bible also says that we (belivers) are heir to the blessings of Abraham. This is a promiss that God made himself. Look at Joseph. Everything Joseph went through it said (" The Lord was with Joseph and he was a successful man") Joseph was second in command of all of Egypt. That sounds like wealth to me and thats before Jesus came. Look at all the blessings in Deuteronomy 28 that God himself has commanded to give us if we obey his commandments. Deut 28:1-13
    Deut 28:11.And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

  • Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:09 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 2

    We concern ourselves with details of a particular ministry, but fail to see the obvious. This church does not represent Christ. Actually, Christ is not represented by any mainstream churches that I can determine. (There is no money to be made in telling truth.)

    There are thousands of false religions but there is only ONE true faith in Christ. As an example, see this link to just those of the Baptists alone! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Baptist_denominations

    The differences mostly expressed are not just trivial matters but of SALVATION itself! These scholars who have devoted their lives to the study of the scriptures in order to lead us pilgrims to God cannot even agree on the very BASICS of Christianity. They do not understand the first basic aspect of a subject they all presume to champion.

    When scripture tells us the way is narrow and few are those who will find it, don’t be surprised that FEW WILL FIND IT! Considering their myriad of false teachings, I don’t expect to meet very many evangelists, lawyers, preachers, pastors or theologians in Heaven.

    BOC560

  • Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:20 pm Agree: 11   Disagree: 0

    Jesus taught us to store our treasure in heaven not on earth where it can be lost,stolen,or erode.He said that where we keep our treasure, that is where our heart is.And He said it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to see heaven.Even the proverbs say give me neither poverty nor riches,but give me only my daily bread.Otherwise,I may have too much and disown you and say Who is the Lord?Or I may become poor and steal,and so dishonor the name of my God.And 1 Timothy 6:10 says For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.Some people,eager for money,have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.Its obvious that there is no gospel in the "prosperity gospel".it is also obvious that these standards are what we are to live by in our every day dealings and not just in matters of faith.

  • Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:38 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 3

    Paul, who taught us to beware of other Gospels (Gal. 1: 6-9), lived on God's providence, sometimes having alot, sometimes not. His teachings on contentment (1 Tim 6: 6-10) seem to defy the teachings of prosperity gospel. The Bible teaches us to not love money, notice it can be a snare that yields many sorrows. I desire all my brothers in Christ to have joy in living, and can prosperity gospel offer what Christ has? He lived in poverty, but was not consumed by it.
    One of my favorite hymn verses goes: "We are rich for He [Christ] was poor. Is not this a wonder?" It concludes "therefore praise God evermore. Here on earth and yonder." I fear prosperity gospel obscures the wondrous grace of God, which isn't measured out in dollars and cents.

  • Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:12 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    1Jo 4:1 Dear friends, stop believing every spirit. Instead, test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

    Our faith is not driven by fear, but by truth.

  • Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:45 am Agree: 11   Disagree: 3

    The "prosperity gospel" is very dangerous in that it makes Christians who are living in poverty question their faith and possibly gauge their faith by the amount of money they have.

  • Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:32 pm Agree: 16   Disagree: 0

    but you have to give it back to God. Check out the story in CNN and yahoo today about the building of a conservative Christian city in Florida by the founder of Dominos pizza. www.yahoo.com

    Awesome story!

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