Mainstream Protestants, Adventists Make Efforts to Remove 'Stereotypes'

Steve Jepson »

Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:30 am Agree: 7   Disagree: 0

dgnymn,

“traditional belief” ?

Would you state which “traditional belief” about Jesus Christ you hold that is different than the Seventh-Day Adventists?

What is your religious affiliation, religion, denomination…?

Does it base its beliefs on “tradition”, the Bible only, or both?

Steve Jepson »

Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:17 am Agree: 9   Disagree: 2

dgnymn,

Please be specific. What “viewpoint of Christ” held by 7th Day Adventist’s “is far different”? Different from what?

This is what Seventh-Day Adventists believe about Jesus Christ.

God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles He manifested God's power and was attested as God's promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. (John 1:1-3, 14; Col. 1:15-19; John 10:30; 14:9; Rom. 6:23; 2 Cor. 5:17-19; John 5:22; Luke 1:35; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 2:9-18; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4; Heb. 8:1, 2; John 14:1-3.)


Also, do you think it is “almost legalistic” to observe the other 9, or just the 4th, the one he said to remember? Exodus 20:8-11

dgnymn »

Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:36 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 10

C,mon, Believers. 7th Day Adventists are an aberration!!1 Do your homework. Read their literature and pay real close attention to their doctrine and belief system. E.G. White is not "mainstream," and while the Presbyterians think one way, they do not represent the viewpoints of their membership or other Christian believers. Their holding to the Saturday Sabbath is almost legalistic and their viewpoint of Christ is far different from traditional belief.

OutOfTheCocoon »

Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:23 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

One of the first things people say to me after reading my book, "Out of the Cocoon" is, "I guess I never thought of Jehovah's Witnesses as a cult." The second thing they say is, "But your book really opened my eyes!"

However, with that said, I believe that how you label something is far less important than how IT leaves its mark on the world. You can take a label off a can of beans and slap on a label for peaches and it’s still beans inside. Recognizing the dangerous contents is far more important than the label. Organizations who deceive in order to recruit and then use coercion to retain members need to be recognized as destructive and dysfunctional.

I remember hearing about the Jonestown suicides when I was 16 and immediately thinking, "OH MY--if the Watchtower tells my family to commit suicide, they will do it in a heartbeat!" But as I found out later, one's family doesn't have to literally die in order to experience that loss.

Organizations like the Watchtower are responsible for "family genocide." They shun (never speak to or acknowledge) family members who leave...for any reason. My family hasn't spoken to me in 25 years simply because I left. It's like they are, indeed, dead. Out there, but untouchable. In a cult, it's easy to get in but hard to get out.

My mother was uneducated; she didn't know what a cult or destructive group looked like when they came recruiting (people don't join cults; cults recruit people). That's why she opened the door when nicely dressed Jehovah's Witnesses came to deliver their "good news."

I want to raise awareness. That's why I teach free cult education in Denver. Ignorance when it comes to cults is not bliss and can, indeed, be deadly.

Brenda Lee, author: "Out of the Cocoon: A Young Woman's Courageous Flight from the Grip of a Religious Cult" www.outofthecocoon.net

Steve Jepson »

Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:08 am Agree: 8   Disagree: 0

JJ22854,

I liked your observations about what the Seventh-Day Adventist’s, Mormon’s, and Jehovah’s Witnesses all have in common. There is a difference (sometimes) between what they are able to imply in very carefully worded, and broadly defined statements of belief, and how that translates into the actual practice and expression of this belief by it’s members.

Sadly, this is true of all churches, and all Christians. We do not always represent Jesus or his teachings very well. I think it would be safe to say the no one has done more to undermine the cause of Christ than those of us who claim to be Christians. Think of all the evil that has been done in the name of Christian’s.

This does not make our beliefs any less valid, just because some one has created a bad reputation for us?

I think these three churches have many extremists who miss represent their churches and may have had more influence in the formulation of public opinion about them, than the main body does. Actions speak so much louder than words.

I am a Seventh-Day Adventist (reluctantly at times) I know that what you have said is true (sometimes). The example you gave of the Mormon’s passing out KJV Bibles is a perfect illustration of this sort of thing.

However, I remain a Seventh-Day Adventist because it’s teachings (as officially stated that is) are the most consistent with the Bible and basic tenants of Protestantism of any other church I know about. I would jump ship with out hesitation if I did not believe this.

What church do you belong to?

How do it’s teachings compare to what the Bible says?
Is it based on the Protestant principles of sola scriptura, or does it teach that this is not even a Biblical concept, as the Catholic’s do?
Could we dig up some obscure paper written by one of your members that is not representative of your faith, and use it to spread lies about you?

Personally, I am not at all happy with the liberal progressives (as they like to be called) in my own church (flam’n liberal's I call’m) who are undermining the traditional Protestant values of the Seventh-Day Adventist church with the more psycho-social gospel of today’s Evangelical churches.

Steve Jepson »

Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:44 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 3

Some will choose to believe their own imagination, even if God himself were to come down out of heaven and speak to them in his own voice, or even go so far as to write with his own finger, in tables of stone!

If he did that, and he asked us to “Remember…” would you do that? Or would you choose to re-write what he said and forget it?

There is no need to speculate and spread lies about what the Seventh-Day Adventist’s believe. You can go to their website and read it for your self.
http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

Remnant and Its Mission:
The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaims salvation through Christ, and heralds the approach of His second advent. This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14; it coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on earth. Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness. (Rev. 12:17; 14:6-12; 18:1-4; 2 Cor. 5:10; Jude 3, 14; 1 Peter 1:16-19; 2 Peter 3:10-14; Rev. 21:1-14.)
Unity in the Body of Christ:
The church is one body with many members, called from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. In Christ we are a new creation; distinctions of race, culture, learning, and nationality, and differences between high and low, rich and poor, male and female, must not be divisive among us. We are all equal in Christ, who by one Spirit has bonded us into one fellowship with Him and with one another; we are to serve and be served without partiality or reservation. Through the revelation of Jesus Christ in the Scriptures we share the same faith and hope, and reach out in one witness to all. This unity has its source in the oneness of the triune God, who has adopted us as His children. (Rom. 12:4, 5; 1 Cor. 12:12-14; Matt. 28:19, 20; Ps. 133:1; 2 Cor. 5:16, 17; Acts 17:26, 27; Gal. 3:27, 29; Col. 3:10-15; Eph. 4:14-16; 4:1-6; John 17:20-23.)

JJ22854 »

Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:17 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 6

The SDA church is a "cult", just as are Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, for the basic reason that all three teach that they are GOD's only true christian church on the planet, and given such, only SDAs are true christians, and "salvation" is granted only to SDAs. In other words, a "christian cult" is simply a professed christian group that places itself as a "hurdle" in the direct relationship which mankind's Savior, Jesus Christ, offered to each individual person.

I could care less that some SDA "negotiator" is able to hoodwink Walter Martin, Sheldon Sorge, or any other Christian "representative" who is so anxious to extent the hand of christian fellowship that they embrace a hand with the proverbial assassin's knife hidden up their sleeve.

Anyone who has done any homework whatsoever on the SDA church knows that SDAs teach that "seventh-day" worship is the single identifying factor in the "true" versus "false" christian religion question. SDAs teach that "first-day" or Sunday worshipers are the "false christians" to whom Jesus will one day say "I never knew you." SDAs teach that "first-day" or Sunday worship is the "mark of the beast" prophesied in the book of Revelation.

The SDA church also teaches that Ellen White was a true Prophet raised up directly by GOD to deliver new "revelations" to the christian church in the end-times. Professed Christians who reject her message are rejecting GOD's Prophet and message. Like the writings of past Jehovah's Witnesses leaders which have been proven wrong by time, when Ellen White's writings are proven wrong, the SDAs pull out the card which says White's writings are not equal to scripture. Yet, their actual practice is to treat her writings as such as much and often as possible.

Mormons run television commercials promoting and even offering free copies of the KJV, yet everyone knows that Mormons believe that the text of the KJV (and all other current translations) is corrupt, and they accept the KJV only to the extent that it does not conflict with the Book of Mormon and LDS teachings.

The Jehovah's Witnesses, which evolved out of the William Miller Movement just like the SDA church, also proclaim that the Bible is their only creed, while in practice their creed is actually the Watchtower Society's interpretation of such. The Watchtower Society even produced their own mis-translation to make sure of that reality.

How many times did Jesus Christ specifically warn his followers not to be deceived by false prophets and false messiahs who professed to bring new revelations to the christian church?

Steve Jepson »

Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:37 am Agree: 9   Disagree: 6

Simon61161,

Seventh-Day Adventists are NOT "cut from the same cloth" as Jehovah's Witnesses.

http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

Seventh-day Adventists have always accepted the Bible as their only creed.

The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)








http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

Steve Jepson »

Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:17 am Agree: 12   Disagree: 2

Simon61161,

When you say “in fact” you should be more careful to make sure what you are going to say, is indeed fact.

If you were even vaguely familiar with the remarkable revival of prophetic study and interest in premillennialism that took place after the French Revolution, you would know that (as you said) “the whole trend of setting date after date for Christ's return” did not begin with William Miller. Prophetic study was widespread then and included all denominational groups—Presbyterians, Congregational, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Reformed, Methodists, Baptists, and many others as well.

I am looking at a chart here in a book I am reading “The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers” Froom, vol. 4 that shows the names and the denominational affiliation of about 80 of the worlds most eminent expositors of the book of Daniel who also wrote about what they expected to take place at the end of the 2300 days spoken of by Daniel.

Mathew Henry (Presby.), Thomas Scott (Angl.), Bishop Thomas Newton (Angl.),
Adam Clark, (Wesleyan) just to name a few.

William Miller wrote his first book on prophecy in 1836. It was already a widely excepted view that the 2300 prophetic “days” were in actuality literal years, due to end about 1843-1847, and that the period of the 70 weeks of years, extended to the death of the Messiah in the 70th week.
This book documents some 78 prominent and respected writers who published there works prior to William Miller. The documentation is very well done too. This volume is over 1,200 pages.

Also, I would like to point out that you have used the term Adventist very loosely.

Every one in William Millers day and our own, who is preaching about the eminent return of Jesus could be called an Adventist.
I think you may have ment Seventh-Day Adventist for some of your comments, however, William Miller was not a Seventh-Day Adventist. Although rooted in what was called the Millerite movement, that denomination was established in 1863. William Miller died in 1849.

In contrast to the Jehovah’s Witnesses you mentioned, who have set “date after date” this is certainly not true of the Seventh-Day Adventists.

I have always wondered how those who get caught up in setting dates for the Second Coming understand these words of Jesus.

“But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.”

Simon61161 »

Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:36 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 11

The Jehovah's Witness founder Charles Russell was heavily influenced by Adventist doctrine. In fact, the whole trend of setting date after date for Christ's return began with William Miller, Russell's Adventist mentor. When Christ failed to return on any of the projected dates, Miller began to promote the concept of the invisible return of Christ, in order to cover his blunders. Later, when Russell split with Miller, over other theological differences, he took these doctrines with him and formed his "Bible Student" group, later called Jehovah's Witnesses. Both groups are cut from the exact same cloth, with a long lineage of failed prophecies in their wake. It's six of one, half dozen of another.

DannyHaszard »

Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:06 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 0

All you need to know about the Jehovah's Witnesses is that they say "Jesus had his return to power" aka his second coming in the year 1914.

Debunking the Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs:
A) They are at your door to recruit you for enslavement to their watchtower corporation,they will say that "we are just here to share a message from the Bible" this is deception right off.

B) The 'message' is their false Gospel that Jesus is ruling in heaven already since 1914.The problem with this is it's not just a cute fairy tale,Jesus warned of the false prophets who would claim "..look he is here in the wilderness,or see here he is at the temple"

C) Their anti-blood transfusion ban has killed hundreds if not thousands

D) once they recruit you they will "love bomb" you in cult fashion to also recruit your family & friends or cut them off. There are many more dangers,Jehovah's Witnesses got a bad rap for good and valid reasons.
----
Danny Haszard Jehovah's Witness X 33 years and 3rd generation
http://www.freeminds.org