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Society|Sun, Oct. 14 2007 02:21 PM EDT

Schwarzenegger Vetoes Same-Sex 'Marriage' Bill; Battle Continues

By Nathan Black|Christian Post Reporter

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger vetoed a same-sex "marriage" bill on Friday, giving pro-family groups a second win in the battle to protect traditional marriage in the state.

The measure, if signed, would have defined marriage as a union between "two persons" rather than a man and a woman, granting homosexual couples the same rights and benefits as married heterosexual couples. Schwarzenegger said voters and the state Supreme Court, not lawmakers, should decide the issue.

Schwarzenegger turned down a similar bill in 2005.

Gay rights advocates denounced the veto and accused the governor of hypocrisy.

"We find it shocking for the governor to say he opposes discrimination based on sexual orientation and then veto a bill that would have ended discrimination based on sexual orientation," said Geoff Kors, executive director of Equality California, a gay rights group, according to The Associated Press.

In his veto message, Schwarzenegger wrote that Californians "should not be discriminated against based upon their sexual orientation."

The governor expressed continued support for domestic partnership rights and said Friday that he would continue to "vigorously" defend and enforce those rights.

The California Supreme Court is likely to decide next year on the constitutionality of Proposition 22, which defines marriage between a man and a woman and bans homosexual "marriage."

Schwarzenegger said it is up to the state Supreme Court and then, if necessary, voters to alter Prop. 22.

Pro-family groups have stated earlier that Californians already and clearly decided on the issue of same-sex "marriage when they passed the ban in 2000, which was to protect traditional marriage.

Although the majority of voters passed Prop. 22, Kors said voters have changed their stance over the years and polls indicate California is nearly equally split on the issue now. According to a poll last year by the Policy Institute California, 48 percent oppose homosexual "marriage" – down from 55 percent in 2000 – and 46 percent express support.

Kors' pro-gay group is currently running a multi-million-dollar TV advertising campaign throughout California to sway undecided voters toward support for same-sex "marriage."

While pro-family groups applauded Schwarzenegger’s veto Friday, they are still disappointed over two bills signed the week before. One of the bills, SB 777, bans teacher instruction or school activity that promotes a discriminatory bias because of gender of sexual orientation, while the other, AB 394, requires each school district to have a process to investigate "harassment" or "discrimination" incidents.

Conservatives argue that the measures will ban any moral viewpoint contrary or unfavorable to the homosexual, bisexual and transgender lifestyles and demand that they be portrayed as normal and acceptable. They further argue that these alternative sexual lifestyles will be promoted "under the guise of 'safety'" and, through increased exposure, will normalize them in front of young children.

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  • Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:51 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Only the Blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ can cleanse us of all unrighteousness and filthy sin - this does include many other things, but as it pertains to this article - adultery, fornication, and yes, homosexuality. Too many in today's church want to cover up sin, and be politically relevent to today's "culture". They water-down the Wrod of God, and twist it to make it seem more "pleasant" to the ears. Many people want to hear what feesds their ego; they don;t want to hear the truth that transforms lives for their own good and for God's pleasure.

    The Bible tells us that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. None of us are without sin. The Good News is that Jesus Christ became God in the flesh for us! He decended from his exalted heavenly place, and willfully shed His Prescious Blood and gave up His life so that we may have a relationship with God the Father our Creator.

    We need to first acknowledge that we are all sinners; we need to repent - that is to literally and willfully choose to turn away from our old life of living in sins; we need to ask for forgiveness and accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior of our lives (this means we hand over our free will to Him, and choose toi obey His commands and teachings). We must put our total trust and confidence ino Him, and then follow Him.

    The question is, have we trully repented, and turned back from our sin. That is to say, if we're willfully, and rebelliously living in sin, have we made a conscious choice to turn from that sin, die to ourselves, pick up our crosses daily and follow Christ?

    None of these sins are unpardonable, but God has given us a free choice. We must choose this day whom we will serve. Are we going to choose to gratify our flesh and live in sin, or are we going to die to ourselves, and choose to follow Christ Jesus?

    Whoever doesn't truly know Christ on this site, please give your life to him. You will not regret it. He will never bring up your past. We all have pasts, but God can make you a new person, and as you continue to seek after Him and as you surrender your life to Him, He will continue to mold you and make you into the vessel of honor He wants you to be. I hope this touches someone out there, and may the Lord turn your heart to repentance. God Bless You.

  • Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:09 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    I'm trying to understand what you are trying to say with "blood sacrifice of an innocent for ancestral blood guilt" and "enternal torture." Also why this is two "options" offered by my God?

  • Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:33 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    The Watch: What is so difficult to understand about this?

  • Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:00 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Citizen,
    "The Watch: That's right, blood sacrifice of an innocent for ancestral blood guilt or enternal torture are the two options offered by your god, and either makes him an unjust tyrant. "

    Once again.......Huh??

    What are you trying to say?

  • Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:47 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    The Watch: That's right, blood sacrifice of an innocent for ancestral blood guilt or enternal torture are the two options offered by your god, and either makes him an unjust tyrant.

  • Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:07 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Citizen
    "the character of the god you all believe in, forcusing specifically on the doctrines of original sin and hell as evidence of the injustice and tyranny of your god. "

    Huh???

  • Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    JC: Pardon me, I have had so many conversations around here that they are starting to blend together. You were the one who told me that you had entered a church and felt all warm and special, if I'm not mistaken. Since that conversation, I have shifted the emphasis of my critique from lack of evidence. Its still true that there is no evidence, but I've come to realize that that doesn't matter to people who want to believe anyway, so I have decided to discuss what you all do care about:, the character of the god you all believe in, forcusing specifically on the doctrines of original sin and hell as evidence of the injustice and tyranny of your god.

  • JC »
    Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Sorry, mistake ".....by hanging on a cross. "Father, forgive them for they know now what they do".

    Correction: "...by hanging on a cross. Father, forgive them for they know NOT what they do".

  • JC »
    Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Citizen,

    You are absolutely correct when you say that the burden has been on His followers, and always has been. This is nothing new. Moses, Isiah, Jesus, etc., all ran into this particular problem. But, in the end, it is still the individual's choice to "attend the party", regardless if they believed there was ever a "party" to begin with.

    You already know the answer to your question on why I want to be with God, forever. We've talked about this before. He pulled me out of an extremely bad situation. One that if I hadn't called upon Him, this conversation would not be taking place now. This ordeal lasted a very long time.

    But, even worse, I was already a child of his, and I still rejected him, as have you. He had every right to ignore me, because I already knew the truth. But, he didn't ignore me. Since then, God has richly blessed my life, more so than I could have ever imagined.

    Citizen, dear one, He will not ignore yours, or anybody else's call either. He loves us very much. He gave us life. He gave us an eternal existence. He even proved his love by hanging on a cross. "Father, forgive them for they know now what they do".

    Have you ever heard "We have not because we ask not"? I'm sure you have. The point is, have you ever asked God to make Himself real to you? He will, but you have to be as sincere as you can be, God isn't into parlor tricks. He will, and we know that He will because the Bible is filled with example after example of God making Himself real to ordinary people. These weren't special people, they were ordinary people, living in the belief that He exists.

    Oh, and yes, I remember you saying that it was actually I that pulled myself out. You are incorrect, and I can say for sure. I was there. I lived it, I didn't dream it.

  • Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:11 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

    As intelligent, presumably somewhat educated people, are we really using the "normal" argument yet again. That poor and ignorant horse has been beaten to death. Imposing a personal definition of normal on other people is prideful! Move on and please find something original.

  • Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:14 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    JC: the burden of persuasion is, and always has been, on those who believe, not those who do not. If you can't carry that burden, I do not have to prove god doesn't exist. I simply don't believe you.

    Why would you want to "be with" such as entity as your god? He is corrupt and unjust. A serf in the manor house may have a better life than a serf in the field, but best of all is to not be a serf in the first place.

    It's "his covenant" only because you arbitrarily choose to believe that it is. Otherwise, its book just like any other, with no more authority concerning the supernatural than star wars or lord of the rings.

    You claim to love me, but that's not really me. Its an vague abstraction in your head. Love comes only with knowledge. Not only that, but if you were really a loving person, you'd recognize the harsh injustice, corruption and tyranny of what you believe, and rejoice that there was no evidence that compelled you to believe it. The doctrines of Christianity reek of self-loathing.

  • JC »
    Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    To Citizen:

    Dear one, do you not understand what His covenant is? His covenant is an invitation, to live with the Most High, the creator of it all, the author and the finisher, forever and ever.

    This should be the true goal of a Christian. The real prize is not the streets of gold, or the mansions that Jesus spoke of, or even peace/harmony/riches while on Earth. The real prize is being with Him forever. Anything else wished for, one truly does not know the Him.

    But His covenant is HIS invitation. Not ours. It's HIS guidelines. Not ours. Jesus spoke of this in a parable you will find in Luke 14:

    16 But He said to him, "A man was giving a big dinner, and he invited many;
    17 and at the dinner hour he sent his slave to say to those who had been invited, 'Come; for everything is ready now.'
    18 "But they all alike began to make excuses. The first one said to him, 'I have bought a piece of land and I need to go out and look at it; please consider me excused.'
    19 "Another one said, 'I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to try them out; please consider me excused.'
    20 "Another one said, 'I have married a wife, and for that reason I cannot come.'
    21 "And the slave came back and reported this to his master. Then the head of the household became angry and said to his slave, 'Go out at once into the streets and lanes of the city and bring in here the poor and crippled and blind and lame.'
    22 "And the slave said, 'Master, what you commanded has been done, and still there is room.'
    23 "And the master said to the slave, 'Go out into the highways and along the hedges, and compel them to come in, so that my house may be filled.
    24 'For I tell you, none of those men who were invited shall taste of my dinner.'"

    Dear one, it doesn't have to be this way. You told me you once believed, you once were a regular attendee at church, but the fact that you did not find any physical proof led you away. But I ask you, can you find any physical evidence that he does not exist?

    The fact that I don't even know you, but still love you, is proof that God exists. Without God, this love would not be possible. Other true Christians on this site feel this as well, otherwise this conversation would not be happening. We wouldn't care.

  • Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:19 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    JC: Actually, if you were using faith on a cloudy sky in the same way that Christianity uses faith, you'd believe that there were dragons above the clouds.

  • Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:03 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    As I've explained in detail elsewhere, the doctrines of original sin and blood atonement which are at the core of Christianity demonstrate injustice and corruption on the part of the god they are attributed to. It is not love to threaten me with eternal damnation if I don't believe and obey; its the morality of a mafia protection racket. Would you believe your spouse loved you if he or she threated to shoot you if you left, and had, in fact, done that to their former spouses? Would you trust a judge who sentenced you to the death penalty for jaywalking because your ancestor was a murderer, unless you became the judge's servant? Is that justice?

  • JC »
    Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:17 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Faith is like a cloudy night, you know the stars are there, but you can't see them. You'd bet your life that the stars are still there. You walk, talk, and even sleep knowing that the stars are still there. One would only have to climb above the clouds to see them. This is what His word does for us, takes us above the clouds.

    Faith can bring you to conclusions that bring about the proof of God's love. For example, one night I was in the backyard when I heard "Look up". I looked up and saw the Big and Little Dippers. I then heard, "This is to show that I will pour My Spirit and Love on all the Earth, both great and small". Some may say at this point that I was possibly imagining the entire event, or maybe "wishful" thinking, or maybe "suggestive thought process", and on and on. I say, whatever, I know what I heard, and I stand upon his promise that he will never leave me nor forsake me. He will not give me a stone when I ask for a fish. He that has an ear, let him hear.

    What a coincidence that in the Southern Hemisphere, we have the Southern Cross too, to show that Jesus was Savior over all the Earth, not just the Jews.

    Scientists can only prove what is given to them to work with. Without faith, they too are confined to this existence, its laws, properties, attributes. Faith is the avenue that stretches into the realms where man cannot go.

    The funny thing, I've seen, is that it takes very little faith, to know God's love, power, and majesty. Remember the mustard seed. Yet, we humans, sometimes even refuse to muster enough for a mustard seed's worth. Myself included. We are all guilty of this.

    Brethren, please look to His word, His son. For in the Book of Revelation, one of Jesus' names given to Him is "The Word". If you doubt the word, than you are doutbting Jesus. If you deny the word, than you deny Jesus, they are one in the same.

  • Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:20 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Citizen,
    "JC and The Watch: I'm here because I enjoy talking about religion. I also spend a significant amount of time on atheist/Humanist websites, as well as on websites that have nothing to do with religion. You are pretty arrogant to think that you are ferreting out some hidden purpose in my commenting here. "

    By no means am I being arrogant or "ferriting out" a hidden purpose. I am simply doing as you do Citizen. I like to talk religion just as you do. You base your talk on religion as advising us that God doesn't exist and that Christianity is a "middle Eastern mythology. I, on the other hand, am compelled to tell you because of my religion, that God loves you. He loves you so much, that He willing gave His son Jesus to die for our sins on a cross. Is that a message of arrogance? I think not. By the way; the message of Hope is He was ressurected 3 days later and will return one day because He....loves us. I know, I know, thats all faith based stuff and no clear evidence to back it up, but there lies the rub; faith is an individual's choice and God's measuring stick. How are you going to believe in something as incomprehinsible as God without faith? Your not. You gotta have it. Science isn't going to pinpoint God. It isn't going to put Him in a box so you can Him take out and examine Him when you feel the urge, but you point to anything in science and I can see the fingerprint of God in it. So, In my opinion, Citizen, me telling you God loves you isn't arrogant, but I'm expressing my religious beliefs of Love, Hope and Faith.

  • Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    JC and The Watch: I'm here because I enjoy talking about religion. I also spend a significant amount of time on atheist/Humanist websites, as well as on websites that have nothing to do with religion. You are pretty arrogant to think that you are ferreting out some hidden purpose in my commenting here.

  • Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    JC: That assumes that the universe is a creation. That's part of your faith, which means you have no evidence to back it up (or else faith wouldn't be necessary to believe it. Therefore, your challenge is irrelevant.

    The true identity of your god, assuming your description is substantially similar to the standard one I've heard from other's around here, is Orwell's Big Brother. "Corruption is Love, Tyranny is Justice, Servility is Strength, Ignorance is Knowledge" should be the Christian motto.

  • JC »
    Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:11 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    To Watch:

    You're absolutely correct about Citizen's attaction. He is searching, but not willing to admit it. Otherwise, he wouldn't be here.

    To Citizen:

    With the exception of using big words, and skirting the issue altogether, you still haven't answered my question of a few weeks ago:

    Can you name any one thing that humans have created since being on this planet? Anything at all? Just one?

    An obvious answer some people claim computers, houses, cars, etc. But, we didn't create them, we fashioned creation into them.

    Again, what a show of dependency on the Almighty, and again what arrogance displayed by humans to think otherwise.


    Watch is absoultely correct Citizen, God loves you more than you can even fathom. Open yourself up to him, not the world's "religious Jesus", but the real Jesus. Search, and you will find. Ask, and you shall receive. It really is that simple.

  • Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:12 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    As a Born again Christian who is a member of aq Baqptist congregation, Iplan to vote for Mike Huckabee,not just becqause hee's Baptist any true Christisn who places faith in Jesus as he is described in the bible would merrit by consideration. For More check out The Mormon Mirage by Latayne Colvett Scott or www.watchman.org It's not enough to believe in Jesus One must ask What do they believe about Him

  • Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:00 pm Agree: 10   Disagree: 0

    Christie 14,

    Could you point out the words of the Bible that don't come from Jesus? Jesus is the Word of God! What Jesus are you talking about and how many Jesus Christ are there? Which words of the Bible are true and which words are lies? Which verses of the Bible are true and which are lies? Either it is all true or all lies, choose one.

    You are one of the reasons that those that practice the filthy sex act of homosexuality (anal sex) continue in their sin. Their excitement for anal sex is what their “love” for each other is based on? I know it offends those who practice this repulsive sex act to describe it. They want the school system in America to teach our children about their sinful behavior, but please do not describe what it is that they are actually doing. Are our children supposed to think that there is something wrong with their fathers and mothers because they don’t have a same sex partner, like these “good” people?

    Homosexuality isn't an issue of God's love for all people. (God loves all people, but He does not love sin, ever!) It is an issue of what the Bible says about sin. God says, let me repeat that to you one more time, God says that the act of homosexuality is an abomination (disgusting) in His sight. I don't have to make up anything or give my opinion about this, I can quote with confidence that what God said is true.

    You say that your friends are good people, but the Bible says that they are sinful. Even if they are good it will not get them saved. Accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior is salvation. Once someone is saved, then they are able to change or transform their ways from their previously sinful life by the power of the Holy Spirit. If they continue in their sins, then they are obviously not saved, but that is an issue between them and God. (I would quote the scriptures, but they have been quoted many times in these comments, but I guess you don't want to believe them.)

    So, please don't condone homosexual behavior because you think that it is somehow okay with God because your friends are good. They practice a disgusting sexual act that doesn't reproduce anything but sickness, disease, and early death (even secular statistics verify these facts). Just do what the Word of God told you to do and tell them about Jesus and His forgiveness of their REPENTED sins once they receive Him as their Lord and Savior.

    Pastor Leo Bogee
    World Christian Leadership & Training Ministries
    ( www.wclandtm.com )

  • Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:29 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 0

    Oh please, Christie 14! Shall we tell God His Word doesn't matter and, that He doesn't know anything. God is the one who pronounced adultery and homosexuality as sin among others. And He said there was a cost. Homosexuals don't enjoy a long life span. Would you allow your kids to play with a loaded gun, just to protect their self esteem if you took it away? It's because we love them we warn them.

    But you are right in that some Christians are way too angry. And we need to check our motives and hearts to make sure we aren't harboring hatred which is the same as being a murderer according to Jesus.

  • Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 8

    I believe that not every word printed in the Bible comes from the heart of Jesus. The Jesus that I know loves all, even homosexuals.

    As Christians, it is important to be a good shepherd; to guide one another to righteousness. Even so, the gays and lesbians I know are good loving people, who would form as loving a marriage and make as good a parent as any. I see no reason why they should not be able to unite with their loved one in marriage. To deny them marriage is denying them of our love or approval, which has a very negative effect on their self-esteem and their sense of oneness with the rest of the world. Can you not see the pain in their hearts?

    To truly be a good shepherd is to love thy neighbor as thyself. Let those without sin be the first to throw stones. There are none who have not sinned, who are not children of the Lord. Therefore, let the Lord judge, and with love and humility, let us guide each other along the righteous path. This means giving our guidance to homosexual people as well as our love, and having enough humility to let the Lord judge.

  • Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:27 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Citizen,

    "OpenlyGayOpenlyChristian: Can I ask you an honest question? Why do you put up with this nonsense? Why do you channel your understanding of reality through 2000 year old middle eastern mythology when giving it up would confound those who seek to hold you to their version of said mythology? Wouldn't it free you of the necessity of jumping through all these hoops trying to justify yourself if you recognized the bible as irrelevant and lacking authority? "

    For someone who thinks God is mythology and Christianity is nothing but hogwash, you sure hang out alot with us. Remember, I told you before.....God loves you. He really does. That isn't mythology, that is real. You can deny it all you want. You can point to all the science you want, and still Occam's razor just can't cut God or the fact He loves you.

  • JC »
    Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:22 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Posted Earlier: "As my generation takes over the leadership of this nation, I'm sure we will look back on this time and find it ridiculous that there was ever any issue with allowing mature loving adults to enter into a legal relationship just as we look back on segregation and are disgusted by the fact it ever existed."

    I'm wondering, could this be a precursor of the time Jesus talked about, describing the end times, when he said "...as in the times of Noah"? He also told John that in the end days, even some of the elect shall be deceived.

    Dear ones, do not be deceived, for there are many wolves who look like sheep. They say they are sheep, but when one looks at their understanding, walk, talk, they reveal themselves to be wolves. They are but following in a very unoriginal area by saying "Did God really say". Sound familiar? His word, as a true Christian would know, will never return void to Him. What was spoken over 2000 thousand years ago, is still very much valid today. How little humans have changed. We're still listening to the same lie, the evil one has not had to adapt much.

    Some wolves, say that what was said yester-year, is not applicable today. They say things like "What God really meant...". Or, "How could God condemn people who truly love each other?" But see, it really is the same old lie - Did God really say....? Yes He Did!

    Luke 21:33 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
    34 "Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap;
    35 for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth.
    36 "But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."

    Where will you stand?

  • Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:43 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 5

    OpenlyGayOpenlyChristian: Can I ask you an honest question? Why do you put up with this nonsense? Why do you channel your understanding of reality through 2000 year old middle eastern mythology when giving it up would confound those who seek to hold you to their version of said mythology? Wouldn't it free you of the necessity of jumping through all these hoops trying to justify yourself if you recognized the bible as irrelevant and lacking authority?

  • Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:22 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    To OpenlyGay: You should be ashamed of yourself for using Christs' Title along with your sin in your name. Are you willing to pay the price for your fellow man by renouncing sin like He did? Jesus was blameless, have you no respect for Him who you claim to follow? Since you choose His Title as being married to Him, do you love Him enough to renounce lust for your own body? You crucify Him all over again by doing this.

  • Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:07 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    Uh Dads! This new round of bills passed by Gov. Arnold will allow males into your little girls bathrooms! Anti-discrimination Laws. The Term Mother and Father is now banned from California School Books, no more Mommy and Daddy! Forget the real reason for sex, let's give all the credit for birthing to two males or 2 females, Parent 1 and 2.
    Hhmm, wonder how they'll explain the birds and the bees. This new generation of programmed voters will have no problem overturning Prop 22. They've already been worked on for years, while we've been politically correct and loving our neighbors, they've been spoon feeding our kids. How else could they produce a voter base, since they can't multiply themselves any other way?

    And since it's only just recently that homosexuals as a minority came out of the closet, the question we should ask is; How did they suddenly seize control of California (the world's 5th largest economy with the most influence through Entertainment in the world). Maybe we need to find out what the real Agenda is. They claim to be victims, like poor homeless orphans but all we see is powerful Lobbyists and unlimited deep pockets of money being thrown around. It would be interesting to Follow the Money Trail to find out who is really paying off our politicians. Let's Get Real about this. The problem with Christians is that we are so gullible and like Eve, we don't understand a Lie until it's too late.

  • Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:06 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    Hey, folks...BEFORE you go applauding "Arnie," you better check this out. There were 6 bills in the California Assembly, and 2 of them were vetoed. BUT...this is the kicker. The Christian Post DID NOT report on the bills which Arnie passed into law, such as the bills authorizing the change in textbooks to support bisexual, transgender and homosexuals as genuine alternatives...and to also force families to accept this. You need to do your homework, instead of applauding Arnold "Enemy of Traditional Families" Schwarzenegger. He IS NOT the friend of traditional families or people of faith. Forget the God Bless stuff and WAKE UP people!!! WAKE UP and understand the times. What this Governor has done in California by allowing the California Assembly of sodomites and lesbians to do is to deconstruct the family in a big way, and we need to be thinking about why he was voted in. As an alternative to the other Governor? Arnold Schwarzenegger is worse than his predecessors and he needs to be removed from office or impeached. He is not a Republican, but a Homosexualist who is advancing the cause of the Homosexual Fascist Agenda in this country!!! WAKE UP, believers!!!

    REPENT, FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!!!

  • Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:07 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    Thanks Arnold. Chalk one up for morality.

  • Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:23 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    So that there is no mistake, I will never support abortion or same sex marriage. However, I don't like the 55 mph speed limits either, but I still have to obey the law. If the majority votes in these laws, then I will work to have them overturned, by law.

    It appears that we, as Christians, denigrate political figures when they support what we know to be evil, but then we berate them again when they support the right thing because they don't do it all the time. It sounds like paranoia. I believe we need to let them know when we agree with their decisions, and let them know soundly.

    I think that the problem is the refusal of Christians to register and then to vote in every election. Protesting and complaining has become a way of life for far too many Christians. I have asked many protesting Christians if they voted and almost always they will say no and then begin to tell me why. If you don't register and vote, then just be quiet because you are powerless. The system is in place and if we do not use it, then what is there to complain about? The immoral, evil, God hating use it to their advantage and they are in the minority. What do you think would happen if the majority uses the system to their advantage? There wouldn't be a reason for all of the protests and complaints. What politicians know is that Christians complain and the sexually immoral and other fringe groups like NAMBA and the a.c.l.u. actually vote. So, they aren’t concerned with the Christian majority because they only exist on Sundays and are virtually non-existent at the polls.

    The Governor of any state must uphold the laws of his or her state. If the moral, law-abiding, family loving person will not get involved in deciding these laws, then the battle is lost. Christians and others are being duped into believing that same sex marriage, pedophilia, and other issues of morality and life are written in stone and cannot be changed. Today, they are written on an etch-a-sketch. Additionally, they actually act as though evil is good and good is evil. They will even take a stand against the Bible because a family member or friend disagrees with the Bible. Christian values are not being taken away in America, they are being given away.

    Finally, the blessings of God are never on the evil and cannot be. However, the love of God is on everyone as long as they are alive and as long as they are alive there is an opportunity for their salvation.

    Pastor Leo Bogee
    World Christian Leadership & Training Ministries
    ( www.wclandtm.com )

  • Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 6

    OpenlyGayOpenlyChristian: Right on. Our generation is going to make the current levels of homophobia just a bad memory. I also hope that our generation, being much more secular, will also increase tolerance of atheists, Humanists, agnostics, and the godless in general.

  • Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:28 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    OpenlyGayOpenlyChristian,

    While it may be true that there are more americans supportive of same-sex families etc. It was also once the case that Abortion was favored by a majority of Americans. (I am not saying that you support Abortion, but just merely stating that Abortion support was once a majority as well and is supported by "liberal" America in droves).

    Don't take the current statistics for granted. For example: on the issue of Abortion in just the last 5 years:
    Pro-life rose from 33% to 43%
    Pro-choice declined from 56% to 48%
    http://www.abortiontv.com/Misc/AbortionStatistics.htm

    It only takes a few strong political events for a nation to turn. It could possibly turn back to being in favor of your opponents.

  • Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 8

    Looks like the polls are showing an major increase in support for same-sex marriage in the United States. This is only going to continue as everyone realizes that it important to protect and support ALL families.

    As my generation takes over the leadership of this nation, I'm sure we will look back on this time and find it ridiculous that there was ever any issue with allowing mature loving adults to enter into a legal relationship just as we look back on segregation and are disgusted by the fact it ever existed.

    I only hope that Pastor Leo will still support the laws of this nation when they aren't exactly what he believes.

  • Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:46 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    ::begin quote::
    Yes, God bless Governor Scharzenegger and his family because he is the Governor. I pray for him and our National Leaders too.
    ::end quote::

    Well...I agree with you about the praying for them part at least. I have no problem with "blessing" people generically. However, often, the term "God bless you" is a phrase used to heap approval on those. This method is not a biblical one necessarily, blessing someone can happen whether they are good or bad.

    If you are using the biblical method of blessing someone....than I have no quarrel, however the more modern usage of "blessing" can be an issue. It appears as though approval is being heaped no only on what he did right, but the wrong things that he shouldn't have done.

    Just my opinion of course, I may simply be reading into what you said, if thats the case I apologize.

  • Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:30 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    There are NO perfect candidates or leaders because there are no perfect people to choose from. I can only choose the best of those who have made themselves available, help them get elected and pray that God will direct their decisions. (I am not a Californian nor do I live in CA)

    I vote on the issues, not the parties. I do not endorse political parties, but I do endorse issues and vote for those who stand on them.

    Yes, God bless Governor Scharzenegger and his family because he is the Governor. I pray for him and our National Leaders too.

    God bless you too,

    Pastor Leo Bogee
    World Christian Leadership & Training Ministries
    ( www.wclandtm.com )

  • Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:49 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    God Bless Schwarzenegger? He vetoed some bills...good...but signed into law others

    ::being quote::
    Also signed were AB 102, which awards married surnames to homosexual couples; and AB 14, which opens up penalties for nonprofit organizations and churches receiving state funding for programs, and some private business operations, that do not support and affirm homosexuality and alternate sexuality.
    ::end quote::
    http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/10/schwarzenegger_gives_homosexua.php

  • Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:51 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 5

    In a Democracy, like the United States of America, the majority rules. It is not the group that threatens the most politicians, demonstrates the loudest, or displays the most immoral and demonic public street behavior that rules; especially when that group is less than 6% of the population. So, why would a group that compromises less than 6% of the population be so upset at not getting their way in the United States of America?

    In a Republic, like the United States of America, laws are written, approved, and enforced. The downfall of every nation is lawlessness. If the laws of the United States of America don't suite your lifestyle, then continue to vote until you become the majority and pass laws that favor your views; otherwise obey the laws that are approved or move to some other nation that will accommodate your views.

    In any case the United States of America is a Republic and a Democracy. It is, for the most part, a moral law abiding nation; founded on Christian principles from the Bible, not from someone’s ideas of what Christianity is supposed to be. Everyone is welcome to come, but only those who are willing to abide by our laws are welcome to stay. Love America and obey Her laws or please just leave.

    To answer my earlier question, they are upset because they actually think that they are the majority in the United States of America. Just because they have their own law firm, the a.c.l.u., they must think that they can have anything and everything they choose. Not yet, but when the anti-Christ comes he will provide the political power, destruction of family, and hatred for the United States of America they seek and desire today.

    God Bless Governor Schwarzenegger and his family!

    Pastor Leo Bogee
    World Christian Leadership & Training Ministries
    ( www.wclandtm.com )

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