Creation Museum Surpasses Year-Long Attendance Goal in Less Than 6 Months

followstheWAYTRUTHLIFE »

Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Muggleborn--I commend you for using the reasoning skills that God gave you, and for believing what God tells you. You are being led by the Holy Spirit. He will bless you for standing firm on His truthes!

followstheWAYTRUTHLIFE »

Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

We must also consider that in Isa 11:6-9 God gives us a perfect description of what His kingdom on earth will be like: "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb....(9)They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain (the entire earth)...." Then Isa 65:25 God tells us the same thing. I believe this is what God originally intended when He created Adam and Eve, and it is His plan to restore all things to that perfection.

followstheWAYTRUTHLIFE »

Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Point well taken on the number of billions of years--however--I was being sarcastic when I pulled the "165 billion" years out of the air.
zenodaddy....I believe scripture is clear that even physical death did not come into the world until the fall of man. Reason it out....Adam and Eve were naked because they had no need for coverings--until sin, then God Himself gave them their coverings made of the hides of animals to cover their shame. Check out Gen. 3:21. Then while you're in the Word, review Gen. 1:30. "I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so." God says these things Himself about the animals. Do we make Him out a liar by not believing what He tells us? Yes, we do; and we must repent and believe every word He says!!!

MuggleBorn »

Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:49 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

The only thing that bothers me is that there does seem to be clear dialog from God, re-affirming 6 day creation ... namely, as where followtheWAYTRUTHLIFE points out.
I'll mention ahead of time that I would be reminded that our ways are not God's ways, and our thoughts are not His thoughts, but I just wonder why the Holy Spirit wouldn't have inspired Moses to write that God created the Earth over a long period of time, before he created Man ... or at least mentioned that he modeled it in AutoCad over 6 days ... or something :) Sorry, I'm a software geek.
I believe in 6 day creation and a young earth, because it seems to fit supporting scripture in a non-metaphorical context. But I do believe that our environment plays a role in changing biological traits (i.e. adaptation, natural selection) ... MAINLY because I believe that God created us to be self-sustaining. BTW - that's not meant to be a watchmaker analogy ... I'm defintely not a deist :)

zenodaddy »

Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:10 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

'death did not enter the world until sin was introduced through the fall of Adam and Eve.'

Spiritual Death did not enter the world until sin, physical death on the other hand is debatable. If you notice in Genesis 3, Adam and Eve were not surprised to hear that they would eventually die (technically he only said this to Adam... 'for you are dust, and to dust you shall return'...

'So how does one explain fossilized DEAD animals "165 billion" years old?'

One doesn't since the earth is only 4.5 billion years old. Generally speaking, the oldest fossil we have found was 3.8 billion years old which for evolutionists... is a big problem considering the earth was only .5-.7 million years old, not enough time for a non-informational piece of matter to somehow develop an information system, then start moving and reproducing on its own.

If you give the universe an eternal status for age... then it is possible, yet still highly doubtful.

followstheWAYTRUTHLIFE »

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

Another point to ponder....death did not enter the world until sin was introduced through the fall of Adam and Eve. So how does one explain fossilized DEAD animals "165 billion" years old?

followstheWAYTRUTHLIFE »

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

The point is saints....God was setting a precedent for the Israelites concerning the sabbath. Gen. 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day". The use of 'evening' and 'morning' may have been used to limit 'day' to the solar day. Food for thought, I'd say!

followstheWAYTRUTHLIFE »

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

The point is... the idea we must get across to a sinful and hurting world is that either EVERY word of God's is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, or we leave room for doubting His authority in the minds of searching souls and a lost world. Jesus Himself said in Ex. 20:1,8-11 And God spake all these words, saying, (8)"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (9)Six days shalt thou labour, and do all they work: (10)But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor .....(11)For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it".

zenodaddy »

Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:50 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

‘zenodaddy – Well spoken :^) I’ve gotta say, you got style and a good sense of humor …’

You may not want to say that too loudly in here… someone may flag you lol.

‘ And a few good points to boot.’

It was my alter ego, honest! LoL.


‘I am going out on a limb here, but I want to admit that I actually do believe in literal 6-day creation. ‘

And you know what? That is fine. Whether you believe in a 6 literal day time period, or epoch’s of time, the important part is, you believe that God CREATED.

‘I also believe it was once possible for these variations to take place over generations in a short amount of time (assuming the gene pool was much richer then … and have since thinned out a bit).’

Originally, our genes and DNA were perfect… and over time since the fall they have deteriorated. And if the past 100 years are any indication… our genetic makeup is rapidly getting worse far faster then before.

‘Regardless, I love discussing The Lord, and His creation on all levels.’

Well said!

‘It sometimes takes a lot of diverse viewpoints to hash out the truth.’

Nowhere does God ever say that His Word is always easy to understand. Jesus intentionally spoke in parables to confuse those who would not believe and whose hearts were hardened.

‘It pressures us to examine aspects of our beliefs from different angles, and many times discover new evidence where we never would have thought to look, otherwise. This is how I feel about a young earth. Empirically, it looks like I’m betting on the slow horse, but we’ve been wrong before. Some “phenomena” in various disciplines that have looked impossible in the past were eventually explained. This may happen with aspects of Young Earth Creation (but probably not before the Lord returns).’

I completely understand. If we are not challenged, we become like a dull sword, which is one reason why I am such an advocate of apologetics. I welcome open dialog between various views. However, I do not welcome self-inflicted ignorance that some people choose for themselves.

‘I think Creationism is the underdog’

See in my opinion creationism is not the underdog, but the top dog. Evolutionary theories IMO will become an eventual laughing stock of science, much like the flat earth believers (not Christians either… the bible explicitly teaches that the earth is round).

‘So far, it seems like we are listening to the same music, but dancing to it a little differently. Let’s hope I don’t trip and fall on my face … Sorry about all my stupid metaphors :^)’

No, your metaphors are a welcomed addition to this debate.

Thank you for your honesty!!

MuggleBorn »

Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:14 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

zenodaddy – Well spoken :^) I’ve gotta say, you got style and a good sense of humor … And a few good points to boot.
I am going out on a limb here, but I want to admit that I actually do believe in literal 6-day creation. I also believe it was once possible for these variations to take place over generations in a short amount of time (assuming the gene pool was much richer then … and have since thinned out a bit).

Regardless, I love discussing The Lord, and His creation on all levels. It sometimes takes a lot of diverse viewpoints to hash out the truth. It pressures us to examine aspects of our beliefs from different angles, and many times discover new evidence where we never would have thought to look, otherwise. This is how I feel about a young earth. Empirically, it looks like I’m betting on the slow horse, but we’ve been wrong before. Some “phenomena” in various disciplines that have looked impossible in the past were eventually explained. This may happen with aspects of Young Earth Creation (but probably not before the Lord returns).

I think Creationism is the underdog, because skeptics, ie. atheists have more of a tendency to take interest in the natural sciences, because psychologically, that’s all they believe in), which is why some evidence gets ignored (or even buried and fossilized *smirk*). Believers, on the other hand place less importance on that aspect (at least in the last century) because we are more interested in the final outcome, eternal Joy with our Lord and Savior. We don’t suffer for this, ourselves but those looking for God do … the ones that haven’t found Him yet.

So far, it seems like we are listening to the same music, but dancing to it a little differently. Let’s hope I don’t trip and fall on my face … Sorry about all my stupid metaphors :^)

FollowstheWAYTRUTHLIFE – I’m going to check out those references. Thanks again.

zenodaddy »

Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:06 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I would like to apologize for coming off as half-cocked on this subject. I tend to be very passionate when it comes to things such as this.

‘Hyper-Evolution … what is that?’

Yes, exactly right. I am impressed to say the least. Most Christians believe (for no reason other then that is how it was explained to them) that the flood was worldwide which meant that all animals died except what was brought onboard to the ark. No way would millions of species (ok maybe hundreds of thousands) fit on the ark. Therefore, without thinking about it, they are in fact supporting evolution. A model that even Darwin would have found absurd due to the little amount of time the animals had to evolve. Most likely, the flood was local to the Mesopotamian plain since God had repeated his original command (in Genesis 1:28) to multiply and spread across the earth in Genesis 9:7 when the flood subsided. We can also note that between Genesis 1-9, only places within Mesopotamia are named, while Genesis 10 shows us area’s further then Mesopotamia. God had no need to flood the entire earth to destroy mankind. Flooding the plain of Mesopotamia would do just fine and for Noah and his family… their entire world was flooded.

‘Or is it more like X-Men?’

LOL, not like X-Men.

‘Coolaid Christianity’ … hmm. This sounds more like a description of Christianity that’s “watered down”,’

No, I am mainly referring to those who believe everything they hear instead of knowing for themselves. I find it amazing how people are such advocates for God, yet are completely ignorant of His Word.

‘However, I don’t think that anything done for the glory of All Mighty God is a waste. It’s true that $27 mil could buy a lot of bread, but let’s remember that Jesus is the Bread of Life. In the long run, it’s more important to feed the soul. Our time here is nothing, compared to the eternity that awaits us.’

I actually agree with you for the most part. I have no problems with this ‘museum’ other then the fact that it is highly biased to the AiG crowd. This group leaves out Creation Scientists who love Christ and are advocates for him in the cold because they have the gall to believe that science and faith are intertwined.

‘Keep digging for the truth. It doesn’t always appear in one clean vein. Sometimes it’s found in nuggets.’

I agree. I have studied theology, astronomy, cosmology and history for the better part of 5+ years. Every time I look into the night sky, I cannot help but see the Majesty and Glory of our Creator. Each new nugget of truth I find through cosmology has not impeded my faith at all, but has strengthened it.

ifeelfine72 »

Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:30 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

zenodaddy - I feel exactly the way you do. I know God created the heavens and the earth. I don't know how long it took him. I have a pretty strong feeling that it happened exactly the way evolution states it did. The Bible uses parables and symbolism all the time to get its point across.

Personally, I agree, that money would have been better spent on the poor, the hungry, etc. I sometimes wonder if God isn't laughing at all of us or worse yet is ashamed of us for getting mired in these kind of discussions (and I'm speaking of myself here too because I'm part of this debate).

MuggleBorn »

Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:29 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Zenodaddy – Hyper-Evolution … what is that? I would have expected to find it in Wikipedia, but didn’t. I’ll take a shot. Is it the branching out of subsets of descendants from the common parents of a particular species, in which each subset has different isolated genomes than the others, producing variation in their inherent traits? And then the process is repeated through each generation, of which each variation creates greater diversity, leading to many variations of the same species? … *inhale*… And then the genomes of some of those subspecies stabilize, as further generations with the same traits continue to propagate, in a couple thousand years (or less)?
Or is it more like X-Men?
Oh … and ‘Coolaid Christianity’ … hmm. This sounds more like a description of Christianity that’s “watered down”, to make it more palatable for people that are hesitant to take a leap of faith; ie. “God-Guided Evolution”, a.k.a. “Old-Earth Creationism”. (Actually burning myself for this one … see below for why :^)

OK. Now that I’ve made a horrible first impression, let me say that I actually agree with you that God may not be so knit-picky about some of the finer details of His spoken (and inspired) Word. He probably won’t separate the YECs from the OECs and say, “OK, those who believed my word literally, you can enter now. Those who believed I’m a slowpoke, come back in a few billion years”.
However, I don’t think that anything done for the glory of All Mighty God is a waste. It’s true that $27 mil could buy a lot of bread, but let’s remember that Jesus is the Bread of Life. In the long run, it’s more important to feed the soul. Our time here is nothing, compared to the eternity that awaits us.

It may appear that belief in the Apostles Creed is a far cry from how old our planet is (only mentions that God created it, not how long it took). But if Jesus made references to Genesis, without giving the slightest indication that it’s allegorical, I would prefer to believe the Word at face value.
(I’m a little up in the air on this, but I’ve heard too many good points made. And I love playing … er uuuuuh … “somebody’s Advocate”).
Keep digging for the truth. It doesn’t always appear in one clean vein. Sometimes it’s found in nuggets.

zenodaddy »

Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:35 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

'What I find most pathetic is your attack of alleged stupidity on Christians'

Yes, I call this 'coolaid Christianity'

'who have the duty and right to educate people diametrically opposed to secular humanistic evolution.'

Like I said... they are opposed to evolution, yet adhere to a strict hyper-evolution... nice.

'Billions of dollars have been spent down through the years building and stocking secular museums in states across our great country in order to shovel out evolutionary garbage.'

35,000-50,000 years satan has been God and man's adversary... so your 'billions' mean little. Satan will use whatever means he can to delude God's people... even scripture... GASP!

'You whine about $27 million dollars being spent in this endeavor.'

I whine? I whine? No, I am merely making the point that this money can be better spent. I am not whining by any means, but making a point. I find most of my brothers and sisters could barely manage their way out of a grocery store, not because of their lack of intellect, but for their lack of initiative.

Most Christians know nothing about their God except what their preachers tell them. So yes, spending $27 million to further someones view on creation is a waste of money. So you can call it whining all you want, but I am sure those kids out there who are starving will not see it as whining.

In the end, it is NOT going to matter what your view is on creation. God is not going to sit down at judgement and say, 'well George, I see here that you thought I created the whole universe in 6 days', or 'well Tom, I see here that you believed I created everything in 15 billion years'... what HE MAY SAY is, 'Well Tom, I see that you wasted 27 million dollars on a building instead of spending 27 million on my starving, hungry and cold foster children. Why did you not feed me? Why did you not clothe me? Why did you not open your door to me?'

Get my point?

zenodaddy »

Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:43 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I do not appose teaching about Creation, I am a creationist. However, this museum does not teach all aspects of creation, only the views of the young-earth creationists. If we are going to spend this much money on something, we may as well give all of the views.

The idea that all animals on the earth died except for the main breeds (animal classes) since not all of them could have possibly fitted on the ark, and then afterwards were branched out (take felines for example... only one type, then afterwards evolved into the various types of felines) not only teaches a hyper-evolution, but contradicts everything they came out to oppose.

Just an example...

followstheWAYTRUTHLIFE »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

zenodaddy--What I find most pathetic is your attack of alleged stupidity on Christians who have the duty and right to educate people diametrically opposed to secular humanistic evolution. Billions of dollars have been spent down through the years building and stocking secular museums in states across our great country in order to shovel out evolutionary garbage. You whine about $27 million dollars being spent in this endeavor. If you are really that opposed, then convince our lawmakers to make it mandatory to present creation material in existing museums. Yeah.....right!!!

followstheWAYTRUTHLIFE »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Belovedifeelfine72--A striking evidence of the genuiness of these tracks is called "mud push-up". These footprints show "mud push-up" where the toes pushed up the mud in front and on the sides. This would not occur if these were "erosion markings", as some people wrongly claim. Lamination markings, indicating that the foot pressed through different colored clays beneath it, are also to be seen on many of the human and animal tracks. As soon as the tracks are exposed, they quickly begin to erode away and lose their definition.
http://home.texoma.net/~linesden/cem/cemindex.htm For more info. check out this link.

wbmoore »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:02 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Can anyone explain the legends across the world of dragons interacting with humans?

zenodaddy »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

Throughout history God's people have not always been the brightest bulbs in the box... apparently, spending 27 Million dollars on idiocy is on par for God's people... pathetic.

How many mouths could be fed by 27 Million? How many kids could be clothed with 27 Million?

'Give me neither poverty nor riches;
Prov 30:8 (NASB)'

Yes, in the grand scheme of things, I am sure our Lord approves of this... like I said... pathetic.

ifeelfine72 »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

followstheWAYTRUTHLIFE - you might want to get your facts straight. The pulaxy river foot prints are not foot prints at all but erosion. Even most strict creationists have given up on those.

HampsteadPete »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

Ah, yes, the creation museum. One of the very few museums in the world where the folks walk out more ignorant then they walk in. See: http://talkorigins.org

followstheWAYTRUTHLIFE »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

MuggleBorn--Welcome to the club!

MuggleBorn »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

followstheWAYTRUTHLIFE - Thanks. I've bookmarked it. As you all know, Google can sometimes get aggravating; particularly when decides to swallow your key words and throw up the exact opposite of what you're looking for, right at the top of the list.
I've been reading all your posts for quite a while now ... Guess it's time to get off the bench and start playing the game.

followstheWAYTRUTHLIFE »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:43 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Muggleborn--You can also find wonderful and accurate information about radioisotope dating of the earth on the website of the Institute for Creation Research. The website contains info. from highly knowledgeable and credible scientists. While there, do a search on RATE, their research on Radioisotopes and the Age of The Earth. Their web address is: www.icr.org/

followstheWAYTRUTHLIFE »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:08 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

zenodaddy--I hate to be the one to burst your bubble but here goes:

Human footprints have been found in various sites in the United States, as well as in Laetoli, Africa. These would include: (1) Glen Rose tracks: Kids' and adult footprints, up to 15 and 21 1/2 inches in length, have been regularly found in early Cretaceous rock on the former riverbed of the Pulaxy River in Texas (this is totally verifiable). Footprints go across very large dinosaur tracks as well as above them, and all tracks portray creatures running, including mankind. These supposedly date to "120 million" years ago. Man is supposed to have existed on this earth for only the past 2 million years. There are other verifiable examples, as well, if you would like me to continue!

mcfbc »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:49 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

zenodaddy,
That's a great idea. Can someone loan me $27 million?

zenodaddy »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:00 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 5

Yes it is a waste to spend millions to spread their 'idea' on the creation view. To have man walking with Dinosaurs, a literal 6-day creation event that has the earth created before the sun and all other errors in a waste of money.

Next someone will have the brilliant idea to have a 'museum' that solely focuses on the rapture before 'all the bad things happen' during the tribulation.

MuggleBorn »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:08 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

bcoontz,
Outstanding ... Will do. Thanks.

MuggleBorn »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:08 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

bcoontz,
Outstanding ... Will do. Thanks.

bcoontz »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:06 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

MuggleBorn, I would highly recommend that you visit their website at http://answersingenesis.org and click on their Get Answers button on the navigation bar. You will find many interesting and informative articles on a variety of subjects, including the various isotope dating methods and the assumptions upon which they are built. God bless your inquiry.

MuggleBorn »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:55 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I actually hope to visit this some day ... pending a little time off. I would be curious to know if they provide more info on accelerated decay rates of Uranium, etc in water, and the implications of how a world wide flood might actually hose up the accuracy of current atomic dating methods.

ForHim »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:55 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

It's funny someone would claim that the $ used for this museum that acknowledges God's creation would be called a waste when the $ to spread the lie of evelution cannot possible be counted!

JesusmyKING »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:52 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Have you been there to see what they have to offer?

zenodaddy »

Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:23 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 12

$27,000,000 wasted on this 'museum'.