Updated 04:40 pm.EST, Sat November 21, 2009

Society|Thu, Nov. 15 2007 02:53 PM EST

Why are Bibles Disappearing from Hotels?

By Jennifer Riley|Christian Post Reporter

The Bible has long been a fixture in hotel rooms across the United States. But a new and increasingly prevalent trend set by upscale boutiques is emptying bedside drawers of the holy book that has brought comfort to millions of downtrodden hotel guests.

  • hotel
    (Photo: AP Images / Ted S. Warren, File)
    A guest room at the Alexis hotel is shown in downtown Seattle Wednesday, Oct. 24, 2007. The hotel is in the historic Globe Building, which was built in 1901. It recently underwent a $10 million renovation, and guest rooms feature stainless steel four-poster beds, rococo mirrors, 300-thread-count sheets and high-definition televisions.

Replacing the comfort of the handy Bible is the convenience of an iPod docking station, a flat-screen TV, a selection of underground music, a complimentary goldfish, or in some edgier hotels – an intimacy kit, according to a recent Newsweek article.

“The fact is that many persons have come to faith in Jesus Christ by reading a Bible supplied to their hotel room by the Gideons,” Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, commented in his blog this week. “Many others have turned to the Bible when in crisis. Some have even decided against suicide when they read from the Gideon’s Bible.

“Are they now to look for salvation and solace from an iPod docking station or a goldfish?,” he questioned.

The Gideons, founded in 1899, has distributed millions of Bibles in hotel rooms. Its presence in hotels is explained by the fact that Gideons International was founded by two Christian traveling businessmen who met at a hotel in 1898. The two businessmen, along with a third man, founded the Gideons ministry, devoted to meeting the religious needs of the traveling public.

However, Bibles are increasingly missing from hotel rooms across the United States and especially among hip hotels.

In the trendy New York City Soho Grand Hotel, for example, Bibles have never been offered in guest rooms because “society evolves,” explained hotel spokeswoman Lori DeBlois to Newsweek. A Bible in guest rooms would force the hotel “to take care of every guest’s belief.”

In other hotels, intimacy kits – including condoms and other sexual items – are the new standard room amenity.

“So it turns out that the real story is not just the absence of the Bible in many hotel rooms, but the presence of very different materials, from complimentary condoms to erotic dice games,” Mohler noted. “That does help to explain things.”

A possible reason for the amenity change is leisure travel has increased while business travel has decreased. Also, the younger generation is entering the hotel market.

According to the travel research firm D.K. Shifflet & Associates, leisure travel now leads business by more than 10 percent in U.S. hotel stays.

The Sofitel hotel brand, for instance, is changing its image to cater to the younger, less-business oriented – and apparently less religious – generation of clientele. The Sofitel chain, which once had Bibles in every guest rooms, recently removed them when guests questioned why other religious texts weren’t available, according to Newsweek.

Even the Marriot hotel chain, founded by a Mormon, is questioning whether it should include Bibles in its upcoming boutique chain, which Marriott spokesman John Wolf describes as “cutting-edge,” “more urban” and “less values-oriented,” according to the magazine.

“The absence of Gideons Bibles from an increasing number of hotel rooms tells us something about the secularization, sexualization, and extreme sensitivities of our age,” Mohler said.

The prominent theologian called the development a reminder of the “tremendous cultural” and “moral change” taking place in society.

Since 2001, the number of luxury hotels with religious materials in rooms has dropped by 18 percent, according to the American Hotel and Lodging Association.

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  • Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:35 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    It takes only a minute to check if Gideon Bibles are located in the guest rooms of the hotel.

    I will support those hotel chains that support the presence of the Bible offered for guest & those who do not offer pornography.

    If only concerned believers would mobilize their collective stewardship resources, we can make a difference!

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:30 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Well, its nice to know someone is humble enough to admit he doesnt know everything ^^.

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:08 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Now if you're talking about a Christian admitting their wrong in one or more of their convictions, that is also something I struggle with daily. That question is what "keeps me honest". It drives me to study the scriptures for the truth. There are many things that I once believed, that I have learned was incorrect. Or maybe, not necessarily incorrect, but that there is more to it than I thought. But you have those Christians who will distort the truth and twist it to fit their agenda, to suit their purpose. As someone wrote in one of these message boards..."God made us in His image,,and now we are trying to return the favor." I strive daily to let God be who He is in my life. He is a dangerous God! Very dangerous! But He is a good God. His Word is true and just. He is a God of love and mercy and forgiveness, but He is also a God of discipline, judgement, and power. Most people want Him to be a God of love and mercy. But they balk at the idea of a God who expects us to be accountable. That's where apostasy takes root.

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:00 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    token
    "a Christian who will admit Christianity is based on faith is beginning to me to seem non-existant.." That is so true. It doesn't mean that Christianity is flawed, just people are. People are trading the truth for something a little more palatable.
    "
    You guys know the bible, you guys believe in religious experience... Thats fine... But that you guys will never say "well I might be wrong..." I wrestle with that quite a bit. I've wondered that more times than i care to admit. But I could spend my whole life wondering if I am wrong...whether as a Christian, agnostic, athiest, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. I could go from religion to relgion (or lack of religion) and spend my life in turmoil. My Christianity is based on faith. To seriously entertain the question "am I right in my belief" would denote lack of faith. Because of my faith, I have seen God do some amazing things in my life.

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:03 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I know much of what I said will spark controversy... and because you will be offended by what I say, you will blow off all of what I say... I know I could of gone about it a different way... I know I should of been kinder... I know I shouldnt have been rude... and I appologize ahead of time... I just wish you guys would humble yourselves a tad bit.... None of us have absolute knowledge... so arrogance is unnecessary...

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:57 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    But what I have to frown at is that none of you guys will accept the doubt. Socrates said that wisdom is knowing that one knows nothing. A man with wisdom will not claim to know something he does not know. You guys know the bible, you guys believe in religious experience... Thats fine... But that you guys will never say "well I might be wrong..." makes me frown.... I say im atheist, but im actually agnostic. I dont know one way or the other..... But I reject all religions currently conceived by man kind. Or any holy scripture that claims to be created through the 'will' of God. But even with my confidence that all current religions are wrong, I still will not say that I KNOW any religion is wrong. I simply choose to put 'faith' in my belief that all religions are wrong. I see nothing wrong with faith, and I wish Christians would admit that it boils down to faith.

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:51 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    And before you guys take me the wrong way, I say a Christian with tolerance is a rare sight because of Christians out loook on : Gays and their intolerance to believing it is something born in a person, Evolution and the scientific soundness of the theory, Atheists this one is a tad bit obvious, and depending on the person, other religions... for various reasons... This list is expandable, but these are most topical.

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:48 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I have no quarrel with any of you, just simply the beliefs you guys hold.... I have allotted to Christianity the respect it deserves for creating a respectable human being, but at the same time I also realize its flaws and the downsides it creates in a Christan man or woman.... These flaws are the reason Atheists are attacked.... A Christian with tolerance is a rare sight... a Christian who believes in evolution is even rarer... Hell a Christian who will admit Christianity is based on faith is beginning to me to seem non-existant... You guys are a tad bit unreasonable... Most catholics will outright admit its based on faith and wont even get to trying to make it more than that...

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:42 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Best to be educated in a problem that will soon may be a nation wide conflict ^^.

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:42 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Its a complicated situation this whole religion thing... but the reason I am on this site is because, while I've spent a good portion of my time seeing the arguements for and against religion, I've yet to myself enter the fray.... this site would be the first time I have ever argued with Christians to the extent that I have.... I am simply getting a feel for the arguements you guys use, and the rebuttles that will most likely be effective...

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:40 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mmm... I disagree with violence.. my stance on religion has little to do with my stance on violence... A holy war sounds not at all like a good solution to any problem... Why do atheists care about religion? Simple.... I go to hotels too... I live by the same laws you do... I salute the same flag... I learned from the same science classes that you did... all of these are places in which Christianity has imposed, or tried to impose, its beliefs upon me...

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    a temporal, fleeting solution to a longer term problem....

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Using an iPod docking station, a flat-screen TV, a selection of underground music, a complimentary goldfish, or in some edgier hotels – an intimacy kit is a cheap substitute for the comfort and assurance that the Bible can give.

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:14 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    prodriver...its the nature of the beast.

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:47 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    I just ask myself, why atheists come along and talk here about bible-topics. I mean, is their any harm, any suffering coming from believing christians towards them?
    Why do you waste your time here, reading about God and what´s going on in his kingdom?
    I just don´t see a reason - is it the fact that it IS true what the bible says and you just try to find reasons for not believing? There are many, if you try to make up God in his believers.

    Bibles in Hotels are an invitation to seekers and many blessings came from bible in those places.

    Pornos and alcohol are happy welcome, pornos brought loads of sin and devorces and so on.

    True believe in the word of God, true living of Gods love through his followers, brings out Christ in you - give God a serious try to change your live and you will see and forget your idea on believers that failed their trail. God does not make Christians lives perfect and mistakeless, but forgiven - everyday. Bibles in Hotels are Gods invitation to people who seek more to live in a quiete almost isolated place. This is one of the places where God can be found.

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:01 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Disagree all you want, token. it's still true. And since you are an atheist, of course you're going to disagree with anything the Bible says. So what's your point?

  • Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Sounds violent... I have to respectably disagree with that.

  • Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I second that. "For the mystery of lawless is already at work,only He who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.And then that lawless one will be revealed,whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
    2 Thessalonians 2: 7&8

  • Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    It's a crying shame that the bible is being thrown out of practically every public place in America. Disappearing bibles from hotels seems like something we should expect. I think the next development is banning the bible from being sold in bookstores to protect the public from whatever America is afraid of. I think that Christians have not been vocal and militant enough to stop non-Christians from getting their way. Let's call up these hotels and tell them that we will only use their hotels if they put the Gideon bibles back. Let's declare a holy war, as it were, on all those who seek to make the bible invisible!

  • Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:06 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    I have always been told since I was a little girl that these bibles were always free to take. I have never taken on because I always had my own.

  • Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    its all very interesting, but I'm waiting for the movie to come out....

  • Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    And what you said "A group of scientists [in Spain, I think] have theorized that the signature of our "brane-world" (the meta space in which our universe resides) is going to flip from Lorentzian to Euclidean." I heard it had something to do with the fact that sometime during 2012 that our solar system is going to be level with the center of the galaxy or that the planets are going to be in line with the center of our galaxy (because some scientists still believe that everything that happens in our galaxy is determined by our cute little planet), but whatever it is, it will cause this "flip" or whatever which will cause our solar system to do something that will destroy earth....yada yada yada....yawn....

  • Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:14 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    yes, muggle. I've heard discussions on this Dark Matter. The way it was presented is that it was thought up to explain the reason behind the acceleration. They had no other explanation, so they came up with a theory. That's all it is at this point. That's not my opinion...that is what was expressed in the article I read about that.
    And pardon my ignorance, but what did you mean by the comment "Prophet???? I'm trying VERY hard right now NOT to make a joke about a particular atheist's head occupying the same space as his behind, and then exclaiming "OH NO! It's already happened!"?

  • Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet,
    >> They also claim that that expansion is slowing and eventually everything will collapse in on itself <<
    Actually ... Oh you're gonna love this ... it's even better.
    Scientists have now shown that galaxies and other celestial masses moving away from us are actually accelerating ... Some suspect "dark matter" which no one has seen (probably because it's SO DARK *smirk*), has something to do with it.
    It gets better ... Oh, we're on the fringe now! A group of scientists [in Spain, I think] have theorized that the signature of our "brane-world" (the meta space in which our universe resides) is going to flip from Lorentzian to Euclidean. Please don't ask me to explain it ... I really don't know all the math. What does this mean? Time is about to become a space-like dimension. X-files buffs figure it'll happen around 2012, coincidental to the Mayan Calender :^)
    So theoretically, that means that any number of events could simultaneously exists ... also meaning that any number of things could occupy the same space at the same time.
    Prophet???? I'm trying VERY hard right now NOT to make a joke about a particular atheist's head occupying the same space as his behind, and then exclaiming "OH NO! It's already happened!"
    Oh yeah ... I almost forgot. This wasn't the only universe *pfft!*. There were infinite universes before this one, which can be explained by Quantum Loop Gravity Theory. This universe is the last one ... Apparently, there's a lot of math to explain this. Forget that the equations have theorized factors on either side of them.

  • Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:20 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Torus
    To believe that the universe had no beginning...or believe in a God that had no beginning. Im trying to decide which takes more faith.
    Science claims that the universe came from one giant mass of "stuff" in "space" because the galaxies and nebulas and such are moving away from each other. That is the foundation for the "Big Bang" Theory. They also claim that that expansion is slowing and eventually everything will collapse in on itself. But the question is "where did that giant mass of "stuff" come from. many experts believe that it came from another dimension through some kind of rift. It's hard to explain, but it's deep and REALLY cool! But that opens another question. If our "stuff" came from "stuff" from another dimension...where did THAT "stuff" come from? Did it come from "stuff" from yet another dimension? Did the big bang of their "stuff" cause a rift between our dimensions allowing our "stuff" to seep through? But, we as humans, need to find the beginning. Maybe that's why it's hard for us to believe in a God that is eternal.....

  • Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    Well hopefully if things pan out the correct way religion will be left for everyone to believe in for their own selves, and politics will be discerned without having to refer to religion. Theres no need to shut anyone out.

  • JC »
    Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:06 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    To Torus:

    Two reasons.

    One: I look around and see what is around me. I see what has happened on this planet and the accomplishments that people have done here. And I ask myself, what are the odds that all this stuff accummulated on this planet, for us to do with as we have? My conclusion is that it is astronomically impossible for this planet to have been formed by accident, to have the minerals and materials needed to sustain human life, as it has. At the very least, intelligent design.

    Two: God has made Himself real to me. He has told me to read His word, and His Word says that He created the Heavens and the Earth. Since God has made himself real to me, and I know He will never lie to me, I will take Him at His word.

  • Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    'Why are you so sure that this planet, this universe, came from somewhere? Perhaps it's been around forever?'

    For someone who holds up science as a religion this is an interesting statement considering modern cosmology disputes this misguided idea of an eternal universe.

    Even if you wanted to claim that the universe could collapse onto itself and 'rebound' to concur the issue of an eternal universe is refuted as well since the universe does not contain enough mass for this to occur.

    Face it, the universe is not eternal, it is finite. What begins, must have a beginning... and if something has a beginning, then something had to cause it to begin.

  • Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:12 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    JC -

    Why are you so sure that this planet, this universe, came from somewhere? Perhaps it's been around forever?

  • JC »
    Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:22 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    To BobC

    Dear one, I'm sorry I took so long to answer your post. I will not stop the using words like beloved and dear one, because I truly feel that way. This is the love that God has put in my heart. I am not capable of loving you, I don't even know you. But with God's love, I am capable. He has put in me a heart for the lost, and dear one, you seem very lost at the moment.

    On my question of whether you can name anything people have created, your answer was somewhat colorful. However, even you said "nothing". Therefore, with that logic, it is impossible for humans to create something from nothing. But, dear one, are we not living on a planet, in a solar system. Where did this come from. It can't just pop up out of nothing.

    Therefore, applying that logic, it would be safe to assume that where we live was created. Now the next question would obviously be who created it. We know that something does not come from nothing without some sort of intervention. Since scientists have never acknowledged a creator, they are only working with half a picture. They can't say for sure how the Earth came about, only theories. Without that knowledge, they can only form incomplete conclusions.

    Here's your choices, the way I see it. You can still refuse to open your eyes to what is around you, and deny it's existence, or you can open your eyes and see what is there. If you choose the latter, you must acknowledge a creator, otherwise you are denying that all the stuff around you, trees, grass, etc., and are thinking they are just in your mind, and don't really exist at all. This would be self-dillusional, and not very healthy.

    God, (The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit), does exist. All one has to do is open their eyes and look around. We are standing on his creation.

    Beloved, there is a reason God said "Seek and you shall find". His is a perfect love, and we will never be forced into a relationship with him. But, if we honestly and earnestly seek him, we will not be disappointed. That's the way it works, we must seek Him, before he reveals He has been seeking us the entire time.

    I ask you another question now: Is it easier for society to lie, or tell the truth?

  • Tom »
    Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:02 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Gee somtimes I amaze myself in my scatter brain thoughts at times. Old age I guess. Anyway to finish my thought. It is the fear that you all will be successful in shutting us down and shutting us out of the public square again which is contary to the orginal intent of the Founders of this counrty.
    Gods Blessing
    In Christ
    Tom

  • Tom »
    Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:55 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    TokenSP You have a right to your beliefs but the fear of Christians and the increase in lawsuits bear this out, is that laws like which the ACLU constantly files against any religious expression in the puplic square, public schools of goverment. Contary to what the orginal intent of the founders if this country want and put in place with the Consistution and it's amendments.
    Please referance if you want the book ACLU vs American, Alan Sears and Craig Osten
    Gods Blessing
    In Christ
    Tom

  • Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:15 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Could the fact that almost 50% of America's moderate hotels are owned by
    non-Christians from India have something to do with the disappearing Bibles?

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Muggle..
    "Prophet. Please pray for me, that I walk WITH the Holy Spirit when I speak, and not ahead of Him. Thanks again." That's what I mean by the Peter Syndrome. lol. When our passion and mouth run faster than our brains can think. And we end up sticking our foot in our mouth. I promise to pray for you, if you'll pray for me. God bless you.

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I must admit, when I read the title of this article, I was worried the Mexicans, or east European immigrants, were going to be blamed! It is a relief to see that it is the fault of condoms and Strip-Yahtzee games.

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    TokenSP,
    >> Still though the majority shouldnt trump the minorities rights <<
    You are absolutely RIGHT! There are some deeper implications though that we will at some point have a chance to discuss. I've actually got to head off to bed. I'll look out for you in later dialogs. Have a good night all, and God bless.

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet. Please pray for me, that I walk WITH the Holy Spirit when I speak, and not ahead of Him. Thanks again.

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:56 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Oh yes this country is christian has been christian and is only just recently been anything else.. now the other religions are getting a voice, catholics are getting positions in office, atheists are speaking up, and so on and so forth... but since the beginning this nation has been Christian. Last I checked 75% of the population was Christian. Still though the majority shouldnt trump the minorities rights =/. I think it only fair that we all have a right to have our own beliefs.

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:56 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    TokenSP,
    >> I would only be offended if you were happy that I would be going to hell... << Absolutely NOT! ... would it be OK, here to say "Hell no!" I've had a terrible time (had to pray a lot) trying to forgive some people in my past that have wronged me ... but I pray for them too, now. I don't want to see anyone go to Hell. Unfortunately though, in the words of Al Gore ... it may just be an "inconvenient truth".

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:51 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    TokenSP, some are going tell you different ... but America WAS founded as Christian nation, with Christians making up the majority in both civilian and statesmen population. Just Google the letters of George Washington, sometime. I don't have it handy, but I'll try and find the exact site I'm thinking of. You can punch in keyword; God, Christian, Savior, etc... into their local search engine, and it will feed you the letter references containing those words.
    Chime in on some of the other articles. I'll hunt up the link and post for you.

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:47 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    no offense taken I know you meant everything you said, and its just what the Bible preaches! Which is perfectly fine! We all have our beliefs, and those beliefs may be different, and they tend to be! so I thank you for your concern, I would only be offended if you were happy that I would be going to hell...

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    TokenSP ... I hear ya! Let's keep the future open.
    Prophet ... LOL. I think so ... I may want to corroborate it with you at a later date, though.

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:44 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    mmm ay you have a point... personally I wouldnt bother at all with Christians, I would just politely say I am atheist, but thank you for your concern, and go on about my buisness.... but its that Christians are playing a much more active role in politics maybe as a backlash to the muslim hatred of our country... but they are... and I can understand where there is a need to come together, and Christianity has that adhesive property to it, but now you guys are making policies based upon your beliefs and then forcing us to follow the doctrine of your religion... I hold law in the same respect you hold the ten commandments, and I think the laws are for the most part just, but now you are trying to impose the laws of the bible into our law, and now its as if I have to adhere to the bible... (This may seem like a perfect thing ot do to you but to me it means you are forcing me to be christian) and thats where we need to say, woah you are getting a tad bit carried away.... I agree that say something such as stemcell research can be seen as bad under certain lights such as the lighting of christianity, but why not allow us to advance our science, and if you disagree then dont allow your children to partake in it... but allow our children as atheists to do so... if I could save my child only through the methods of something regarding stem cell, I would go out of my way to do so...

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:42 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Thanks, Prophet.
    And I've thought it over; so, Token ... I apologize for my rather venomous response. And I do mean all the positives I've said. I have thought deeply about what it would have meant for me if there was no God. In some respects it would actually be easier ... I'm not afraid of blinking out of existence, altogether. But philosophically/logically, I couldn't do it. There are a lot of good arguments for God's existence ... and still more for his love for us.
    If you're going to listen to atheistic arguments, don't base your beliefs (or unbeliefs) on the actions of people ... particularly Christians. We've already admitted we're sinners. At least be an honest skeptic. And God bless. I'll be praying for you, and torus, and "The Well ... Guy of Eastern European Heritage".

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    And realizing that, we must let you go your own way, and do your own thing....as much as it hurts us to do so.

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:34 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    I understand where you guys are coming from because I know that it seems like to you that we are going to hell and you guys are just trying to save us from this doom, and I totally understand why its so hard to try and let us go our own way... but I can assure you that most atheists who are truly atheists, have 0 fear of hell so to you its the case of a child whos aobut to stick his hand in a bees nest to us its as if the bees nest was never there.... anyways though thats why this is so difficult!!!! you try to be polite and save us at the same time, but theres no evidence to convince us and we try to show you theres no God but have to battle against faith and this never ending fear.... =[ we are at oddsss

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    You and me, my friend, have what's called "The Peter Complex". I hope you know what I mean by that.

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:26 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    muggle
    I chuckle because I am more like you than you think. I am very passionate about my convictions. And i feel your passion too. You don't know how many times I'll be writing a post, and I feel God pulling on my reins saying "whoa!". LOL. I've even gone back and flagged some of my own posts because I felt the conviction of God after i hit submit button. But I am so thankful for His grace. Without it, life's not worth living. I hope that if you ever see me getting out of hand that you will let me know as well.

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    He still does a good job of speaking up for his belief system. I particularly loved this bit -
    "And don't give me any of the "Where's the evidence" garbage argument".

    Sums it all up in a sentence.

  • Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:15 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet,
    You're absolutely right, and please keep fighting the good fight. I know I get out of line ... more than sometimes. You'll probably notice it more in the future. But I know you're understanding, and at least sympathetic to what I'm saying.
    Sometimes I have a difficult time being humble. Let me at least assure you that I do care about helping people come to know God. Others have helped me, and I've been standing on the sidelines too long.

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