Updated 04:40 pm.EST, Sat November 21, 2009

Church|Fri, Nov. 16 2007 10:05 AM EST

Clinton to Join AIDS Summit with Rick, Kay Warren

By Lillian Kwon|Christian Post Reporter

Democratic presidential frontrunner Hillary Clinton is scheduled to join Saddleback Church's third annual Global Summit on AIDS and the Church hosted by Rick and Kay Warren.

  • Hillary Rodham Clinton
    (Photo: AP Images / Ronda Churchill)
    Presidential hopeful Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y is shown at the start of the Democratic debate at the Cox Pavilion at the University of Nevada in Las Vegas Thursday, Nov. 15, 2007.

Clinton is the first of six invited presidential candidates to confirm participation at the Nov. 27-Dec. 1 summit. The Warrens extended invitations to leading White House contenders former Sen. John Edwards (D-N.C.), former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, all of whom have expressed a desire to participate.

"Inviting politicians from different perspectives to the Summit is not a political decision - it is a humanitarian and Christian action," said Rick Warren, bestselling author of The Purpose Driven Life, in a statement released Thursday. "When millions are dying each year, we're interested in lives, not labels. We want everyone to become concerned about the AIDS pandemic."

The 2007 summit follows last year's controversy when Warren and his wife Kay hosted Obama and Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.), who dropped out of the race last month, at the AIDS summit.

Conservatives and pro-life groups were outraged over the invitation of the Illinois senator who professes Christian faith and is pro-choice. Groups such as the Christian Defense Coalition protested against working together with someone in contrast with the teachings of historic Christianity.

While affirming his pro-life stance, Warren said he and Kay were focused on the AIDS crisis and uniting people that otherwise would not collaborate together around the issue. And Obama has been active in the AIDS and poverty battle.

Speakers participating at the Saddleback summit are said to be affirming and supporting the vital role of the Church in fighting the HIV/AIDS pandemic. Clinton affirmed the need for churches to get involved.

"I commend Rick and Kay Warren for their work to fight HIV/AIDS," Clinton stated. "Our churches have a powerful role to play in raising the consciousness of the nation and the world to this pandemic and urge compassion for the sick and the suffering. When we come together, seeking the common good, we can find solutions to our biggest challenges and reinforce our faith that a call to action can change lives. I am honored to participate in this 'coming together' at the third annual Global Summit on AIDS and the Church."

The Warrens have been at the front lines of leading the evangelical community in the fight against a pandemic that has been labeled the worst humanitarian crisis of our time. Until recent years, churches had largely been absent from the HIV/AIDS battle, distancing themselves from the stigma of the disease, which has been associated with sin.

Since realizing the pain of millions living with the pandemic without much support, the billions affected by it, and what the Bible has to say about caring for the sick, the Warrens have been mobilizing Christians for over four years now to overturn the pandemic. Although the church response is still slow, the Warrens are convinced that AIDS cannot be ended without the Church and its 2 billion followers around the globe.

"The HIV/AIDS pandemic is so large that it can't be stopped without the combined efforts of leadership in the public, private/profit and faith sectors," said Kay Warren in a statement. "Obviously, that includes whoever is elected as the next president of the United States. We are urging all of the current presidential candidates to continue and expand the international efforts of AIDS relief of the current administration. To stop what has been started would mean the deaths of literally millions of women, children and men who are alive today solely because of treatment and prevention strategies available through the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR)."

The HIV/AIDS initiative of Saddleback Church is a key part of the P.E.A.C.E. plan, an overarching humanitarian strategy launched three years ago. This worldwide effort is to mobilize 1 billion church members to Promote reconciliation, Equip servant leaders, Assist the poor, Care for the sick, and Educate the next generation.

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  • Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:34 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    I think there are two things. Forgiveness as far as the relation to God is concerned and the awareness, as far as becoming a grown up christian is concerned.
    There are things that keeps the Holy Spirit out of my life, even though Jesus died for them.
    By confession them step by step as soon I get sight of them, I get closer and closer to God here on this earth and more and more mature christian.

  • Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    This is a difficult question. But you defenetly have unforgiven sin in your live and if you accepted Christ as your saviour this is done, as far as heaven and your relation to God is concerned, BUT even though God wants to shpw the asking ones every little sin to be confessed. Jesus already died for my sins, even though I will never be able to confess all, I will see him and be with him eternally.

  • Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    no comment?

  • Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:11 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    and if you have unforgiven sins in your life, and you can still go to heaven...why do we need forgiveness for?

  • Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I see your point...and as the scripture says...if my wife had cheated on her first husband and he divorced her, then she could remarry without fear of being in adultery.
    "But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, EXCEPT for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery." Matthew 5:31 And as it reads in Matthew 19:
    "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and MARRIES ANOTHER WOMAN commits adultery." That says nothing about the wife. And the first one says nothing about the wife either. It says that whoever marries the woman is the adulterer.
    The same with the scripture in Mark chapter 10 "11And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery." There again, it says nothing about the other spouse. Just the one that instigated the divorce. So, I'm trying to figure out where my wife's guilt comes in. And you accuse me of twisting the scriptures. At worst....I'm the one commiting adultery.
    But regardless..God must know something we dont. He uses my wife and I, blesses us, and speaks to us. Go figure....

  • Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:38 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    so a Christian who commits suicide will go to heaven?

  • Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    prop. - regarding unforgiven sin, I presume that I will die with some, yes (because I'll most likely be sinning up to the day I die) but I will go to heaven because of God's grace through His Son. What are you getting at with the question?

  • Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Prop. - But scripture says that your relationship with your wife is adulterous. Does it not?

    You presume to understand homosexual relationships and treat them as such - you said it doesn't matter if the two people love each other - its wrong. that's what you said because scripture is clear you said. Well is it not just as clear regarding your relationship to your wife. . . and you have no reason to be angry with me. So stop being condescending - its not becoming.

    And I am getting frustrated with you because you are twisting God's word and its frustrating that you read the words but don't look beyond. I know you do in other instances because you just did with regards to adultery so I know its in you but with homosexuality, case closed, no need to do any more research or look at what it means.

  • Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:01 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    ifeelfine...
    hypocrite....hmmmm. so, when it comes to the situation with my wife, who was a victim...twice...you hold no mercy or grace...or an ounce of God's love. You will tell a rape victim that she is ok, but when it comes to my wife who was victimized and left to fend for herself that she is an adulteress. I'm not angry with you. I do pity you. But im not angry. I cannot be angry with someone who knows nothing about me or my wife and our relationship with God. I know about God's love and mercy. Otherwise, He would not be using my wife in the way that He is. He, Himself, has spoken to me about some of His plans for us in our ministry. He has spoken to my wife about the same things. He has done literal miracles in our lives. So, im thinking that God's evidence far outweighs one man's beliefs.

  • Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:53 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    ifeelfine, do you believe that if you die with unforgiven sins that you will not go to heaven?

  • Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:00 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    ifeelfine:

    "Prophet - I thought I did answer your question, if not I apologize. I said that it would be better to remain celibate. If you get remarried you are living in a constant state of adultery (IE, yes, she is sinning)"

    Ifeelfine, i believe you are misinterpreting (twisting) the Scriptures. Prophets wife had been cheated on. This is the only allowance that can be backed up biblically for divorce. For you to spin the Word of God is a deliberate act to try to justify your stance on homosexuality not being so wrong. Prophets wife is not sinning, as she was cheated on. What art of the Scriptures don't you understand? Prophet has responded correctly to you in everything, and yet you always take an opposing view of the Scriptures. Why????????????? Neither Prophet, nor his wife are living in a perpetual state of adultery. Prophet is not cheating on his wife, and his wife was clearly married once, but her ex-husband chose to commit adultery, so she is no longer with that man; upon her divorce based on biblical grounds to her ex husband who clearly did not repent of his adultery and chose to continue defiling his marriage bed, she was free to marry Prophet after the fact. As I have exhorted you once too many times before: stp twisting Scriptures to justify your opinions on matters the Word has clearly said are wrong. Read te whole counsel of God and then you will see the true heart of God. I too bid you a happy thanksgiving.

  • Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:50 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    ifeelfine:

    "jc4me - Thank you for your reply. Some of what you are saying I wholeheartedly agree with however I've been chastised for using some of your logic (the reasoning abilities God has given us instead of follow the letter of scripture). If you don't find homosexuality to be a bigger problem then clearly CP does. They have two separate subtabs for the topic and none for divorce - I guess I see where their priorities are. And on the one or two times they have published an article about divorce I certainly didn't see your comments on them (mine weren't there either but as you know I've only recently found this site)."


    just clarify, i am also relatively new to the site. If a article on divorce in the church would have come up, i too would have exposed how God hates divorce, but how He makes allowance for it if there is marital infidelity supposig there is no repentance on behalf of the one who is actually committing the adulterous act(s). In addition, to further clarify, i don't believe that Homosexuality is a greater sin that adultery, or fornication because they all stem from the same lustful desire to act upon what God has clearly said is wrong in His Word. I'm not siding with the progressive, or liberal interpreters of the Word - I do think it is still sin, and like the other sins mentioned, as well as others mentioned, one needs to repent of it (them). One can not live a lifestyle of adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, bisexuality, and call themseves trully born again. To be born again there needs to be repentance, and a need to die to yourself; whatever your vice is..

  • Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:32 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    And yes, I've willfully sinned. I'm a sinner - I've admitted that. Its through God's grace and His Son that I will go to heaven when I die.

  • Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:29 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    now you're just being obtuse Proph. Obviously if someone was raped they weren't sinning. That's ridiculous.

    The same could be said about you regarding God's word. You are such a hypocrite when speaking of God's love and yet the way you talk about gay people and others - there is no love in that. You read the words of the Bible but it seems like you don't understand the meaning - you just read the words. Enough already.

  • Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:27 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    and Prophet, I pray to God that your marriage will be blessed, even though anything.
    God does not know anything about any devorce, for it is forgiven and placed in the deepest see.
    Your marriage is blessed and right before God and this is what I truely believe!

  • Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:20 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    God is the one that uses you to teach people about what it means to live as christians, and then God will be the one who opens the sinners eye to repent and change his live. But God is also the one who promised to save the ones who accept him as Christ.
    By the way, does anyone smoke? Drive to fast? Eat too fat? Watch Pornos on the internet - not knowing it is a sin?

  • Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:16 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    so I´m not allowed to call myself a saved Christian when I´m gay?
    Well, This is something we should not say. Sin is Sin and you and I commit this crime every day.
    Shoulnd´t we be more carefull, when telling someone not to call himself a christian, even though he lives in sin. This judgement belongs to God, we are just called to teach people on what we found is true - in love not in judging! Should we throw that stone or should we live love. I´m not talking about gay priests that I call to go on as a sheperts, this is a different thing.
    I you find a gay priest or bible teacher, the I agree that there´s a big problem (even though they also sin) BUT who are we to say YOU are no christian?

  • Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    but, on the other side of the coin...ifeelfine...i don't suppose you've ever willfully sinned. By that I mean, youve done something sinful, and knew you were doing something wrong.

  • Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    And yet, God uses us mightily in our ministry. God speaks to her. God uses her. That just sucks when God blows away our minscule "understanding" of His Word. Regardless of your belief...she is not sinning. And I thank God that we rest in that assurance of His love.

  • Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:50 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    ifeelfine..
    cool..its nice to know that she is sinning for something that wasnt her fault. now, when i talk to a girl that was raped, i can tell her to ask for forgiveness for her fornication...or the married woman who was raped...that her husband should divorce her. She had an adulterous affair. Or the guy driving his car and went into a epileptic seizure, went off the road and killed someone...we need to pray that he asks for forgiveness for murder.
    i.e. you don't understand the word of God, nor his grace. maybe God will allow you to experience it. I mean...TRULY experience it.

  • Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

    Prophet - I thought I did answer your question, if not I apologize. I said that it would be better to remain celibate. If you get remarried you are living in a constant state of adultery (IE, yes, she is sinning).

    jc4me - Thank you for your reply. Some of what you are saying I wholeheartedly agree with however I've been chastised for using some of your logic (the reasoning abilities God has given us instead of follow the letter of scripture). If you don't find homosexuality to be a bigger problem then clearly CP does. They have two separate subtabs for the topic and none for divorce - I guess I see where their priorities are. And on the one or two times they have published an article about divorce I certainly didn't see your comments on them (mine weren't there either but as you know I've only recently found this site).

  • Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:16 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    hey Prophet, i noticed on another post that you email "The Watch". How can I go about getting an email address so I can communicate with you a little more about apologetics, end times, etc? ANd if one is not available, then don't worry dude; i can always post on the site and talk to you here. Happy Thanksgiving.

  • Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:41 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Thank you Pastor Leo. I always appreciate the Biblical Truth that you bring to this board. May the Lord bless your marriage as well as your children if you have any. Happy Thanksgiving (although every day is a day to be thankful)!!!!!

  • Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:32 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Divorce is a sin for one reason; you have broken your VOW to your spouse and to God Himself. You lied! God takes vows seriously as stated in Ecclesiastes 5:4-7.

    There isn't a sin that God cannot forgive or will not forgive, 1 John 1:9. Divorce is hated by God, Malachi 2:16 for the reason stated above. If you have been divorced, then do what is required for every sin that is committed, REPENT! If you do not or have not repented for divorcing your spouse, then you are living in adultery with the person you are married to. Only blaspheming the Holy Spirit is not forgivable, and that is another entire discussion.

    King David was a murderer, an adulterer, and a liar, yet God forgive him, when he repented. God allowed him to marry Bathsheba and gave them Solomon, who continued the linage of Judah from which Jesus came. Divorce is not an unforgivable sin and has never been. I know that some churches think that way and that is unfortunate. They will accept a mass murderer that has repented, but will not accept a divorcee that has repented. How absurd!

    If you are divorced and have remarried and have not repented for your previous divorce, then do it NOW. Stop the guilt, which is from the devil, from making your marriage today a nightmare.

    Additionally, divorce was allowed because the HARDNESS OF THE HEART caused by infidelity. God knew that mankind would have a difficult time forgiving their spouse for infidelity because their hearts would be hardened. A person with a hardened heart will not be a loving spouse even if they stayed together. The inability to forgive would eventually break-up the marriage. However, in my 29 years of marriage and relationship counseling, I have seen numerous couples forgive each other for infidelity and have great marriages. The main reason they could forgive each other is the realization that adultery is only a symptom of a marriage that is already unraveling. Pride and selfish desires set up the divorce.

    I know what I have shared is hard for most people to receive. We have bought into society's lie about cheating on your spouse. The cheating started with the withholding of love, selfishness, pride, loving your relatives and friends more than your spouse, and other things that did not belong in the marriage covenant. Since God says, "husbands love your wives" then if you do that the marriage MUST work because God cannot lie. The foundation of divorce is HUSBANDS DO NOT LOVE THEIR WIVES. They may lust after them and be jealous of them both of which have nothing to do with loving them. Read 1 Corinthians 13 and see if your definition of love fits God's definition of love A wife will not submit to an unloving husband because submission is a direct result of loving your wife. Ask her how to love her and stop trying to figure her out.

    Pastor Leo Bogee
    World Christian Leadership & Training Ministries
    ( www.wclandtm.com )

  • Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:23 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    ifeelfine:

    There is yet one more example that is debatable as to whether divorce is permitted, but there is no clear biblical guideline (at least I haven't been able to find one) for me to point to, but I will base this on the common sense that God gives us: if there is strong physical abuse, or death threats with the attempt to kill. If one or both partners attempt to kill each other or there is hard evidence to support that a woman or man is being physically abused or battered and the husband/wife doing the beating does not repent, then the innocent party needs to run from that relationship (I'm not necessarily saying for them to automatically jump to divorce the spouse although many times it does lead to this). Any other reason for divorce is not acceptable, and too many people want to trade in their mates for the latest model almost like when one is trading in a car. This is unbiblical, and the one who does so is committing adultery if they remarry.

    Now that I've answered your question to the fullest; I will get back to the original premise as to why we are talking about homosexuality on this site. The site is regarding AIDS, which if you did not know, was an exlusive homosexual disease until it eventually got out into the bisexual and heterosexual communities, thanks to promiscuous men, and women who did not honor their marriage vows, and those who chose not to marry and indulge in fornication. The disease is spread by blood transfusion, drug use, and sexual promiscuity both heterosexual and homosexual. I understand that you don't feel homosexuality is a sin; yet, the Bible still says its sin. You can rationalize it all you want, but absolute truth will always be absolute truth. Sin is sin.

  • Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:22 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    My point, as well as Prophet's is again, that homosexuality is a sin; stop rationalizing it, repent and turn away from it, or please stop calling yourself a Christian.

    With regard to divorce, I've noticed on several previous articles that you always take this, as a side issue when the particular issues we are talking about relate to the homosexual life style. To answer your question for the second time, I do believe that divorce is a sin, and God calls wives and husbands to stay together for life.

    Yes, I agree that it is a disgrace to the Body of Christ that there are so many broken families because of divorce amongst professing Christians. Jesus says that unless there is marital infidelity, there is no biblical basis for divorce. However, like I advised you on another post, God's best is forgiveness and reconciliation with ones spouse. If one's spouse is not willing to repent and continues to adulterate, then the divorce is permitted.

  • Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:22 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    ifeelfine: no, i am not saying homosexuality is a greater sin that adultery. however, i am saying that every other post that has to do with the homosexual commuity, etc on this Christian Post, wherein you have posted, you seem to favor the homosexual side, and always take the opposing view of what the Bible says on this sin. You seem to water this particular sin down and try to justify your position by saying “well what about divorce, adultery, etc”, but then you imply that homosexuality is not. Are you a homosexual woman or man? By the way you respond, it seems that you are, or you have someone close to you that is, and maybe this is why you rationalize it, and try to liberally interpret (Twist) the Scriptures to justify your position. I don't know if you practice homosexuality and are open about it, but the Bible clearly says it is a sin, and one should not rationalize it just cause there are other sins out there.

    One thing is for a person who has been born again to have certain tendencies or weaknesses that they still struggle with in regard to their old nature, and for them to resist and trust in God to give them more grace while they abstain from the flesh, and another is to act out on them when God has made it clear in His Word that those tendencies are sinful. Anytime one sins willfully, or out of weakness, or unwillingly, it is still sins in the eyes of God, and the Christian heart is one of being broken before God and confessing that sin, and ask for forgiveness with the intent of not continuing to practice the sin as a lifestyle choice. One of the Fruits of the Spirit is love, but another is self control.

    If one is a homosexual and claims to be a Christian, according to the Bible, they cannot practice (live in that lifestyle continually) homosexuality; it is an abomination before the eyes of God. It is not the unforgivable sin, and God does forgive and make old vessels new, but it is still a sin, and their needs to be repentance if one decides to follow Christ. The homosexual needs to repent and turn away from the sin; just like the adulterer, fornicator, bisexual, lesbian, transgender, and any other sexual orientation; if one decides to follow Christ, there needs to be repentance.

  • Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:07 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    So, you're telling me that my wife, who was married before....her husband cheated on her....an then he divorced her....that because she married me she is sinning?

  • Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ifeelfine...you didnt answer my question

  • Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:30 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet - It would be better to remain celibate. Also, with the reasoning you've laid out, your asking God to ordain a sin - its like saying "well, commit the sin, then I'll forgive you of it." It doesn't work that way.

    As for your exceptions, take a look at Mark - there he makes it clear there are no exceptions.

  • Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:55 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    a wise man said to me: "if you are in doubt if what you are about to do is sin or not, then it probably is" - for it might be the holy spirit in us that warns us.
    jc4me did the only right thing to do - see what the bible says. If it doesn´t referr to our actual situation, ask God what is right or wrong.
    I have no question that homosex is sin and the truth of the bible is watered down if we put it to our modern times that justifies that.
    If you got devorced and remarried, then it was just as well sin - no matter how we take it (with some very little exceptions noted in the bible) - but the remarriage is the one that we should then respect before God.

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    and so, if someone does divorce and remarry..say before they got saved..or before they understood the truth....we should therefore fix one sin with another?

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    matthew 5:32 "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." So sounds to me like not ALL divorces and remarriages are adulterous.

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    But wait a minute, getting remarried is living an adulterous lifestyle - that's not a one-time mistake.

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    whoops
    as I was saying...
    There is a difference between sinning and PRACTICING sin!

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ifeelfine
    that's not the point. the point is "sin is sin". I preach against all of that. But you are comparing a lifestyle (homosexuality) with what most people call a "mistake" (getting a divorce or cheating on their spouse). Most people don't live a lifestyle of divorce...and yes, there are people who live adulterous lifestyles. I speak to them no different then the homosexual. There is a difference between sinning....and PRACTICING

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    jc4me - so are you saying that homosexuality is a bigger problem for the church than adultery or divorce? Or not? I'm not following your logic.

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:38 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Sorry prophet and the rest of the Bible believers, i gave a thumbs up to ifeelfine in error. i meant to give her a thumbs down on the whole "Prophet - No, I'm not sure homosexuality is a sin at all but am very clear that adultery and divorce are. Those things need to be dealt with and aren't. But boy, it seems like everyone's got the gays covered."

    Ifeelfine is clearly wrong on this, and she's sitting on the fence when it comes to the homosexuality issue.

  • Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:18 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    HUCKABEE IS THE ONLY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE FIT FOR AMERICA. We must vote for change or a change. Give a Buck 4 Huck! Why?

    Both Guiliani, Romney, Thompson are members of the Mason Cult. Therefore, they support the one world government agenda. The masons and their members are trying to cherry pick the next republican nominee. That's why most people who reach the presidency belong to the masons or one of their off-shoot collegiate mason organizations (skull & bones). It makes you wonder...how long has it been since the American citizens truely had a say in picking an american president without masonic influences. I assure you, it is no accident that just about all our presidents belong to the masons. It didn't matter who we voted for in the last election. Do you know why? Both John Kerry and George Bush are members of the same secret society (skull & bones). Hillary and Obama are both masons as well. Even Rick Warren, the protege of the 33rd degree mason, is one as well. It is no accident that Rick Warren is trying to unite all the religions together in his "purpose driven" global peace plan, creating a ONE WORLD system. Ulimately masonic leaders do not care which party is elected. Just as long as their candidate is mason because they will carry out a masonic agenda. And just what is that agenda? Check out this link below.

    http://evolutionfacts.townhall.com

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:05 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    jc4me
    "...moral relativist in the desguise of a Christian..." Maybe that's what he/she is. The best of both worlds. A ticket to heaven, but still able to do what they want. Not that it will work. But it's a good concept. God is shaking the fence,and those who are double minded will fall one way or the other. Most will fall where it looks most comfortable....and that's sad.

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:57 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    Ifeelfine: You do call yourself a Christian right? Or am I wrong?. By definition if you are, then you are stating that the book you base your life on and your life decisions is the Word of God. It is the Word of God that teaches that homosexuality, adultery, and fornications are sins. That same Word of God does teach there are other sins such as disobedience to parents, divorce, idolatry, bestiality,incest, murdering, etc. This Word of God defuines the very essence of absolute Truth. If you do not take the Word of God to be what it is, then why call youself a Christian? Why not just call yourself a moral relativist in the desguise of a Christian that wants to promote somethign other than orthodox Christianity. Why not just call yourself a person who would not believe in absolute truth, but only subjective truth. Then you can call yourself a secular humanist, because that is what the world teaches.

    Why ifeelfine are you not convinced that homosexuality is a sin, when the Bible is clear on it? Notice I have named soem other sins that the Bible names so as not to be only talking about homosexuality, if the Bible is clear on this, then why do you continue to fight it. Are you not a Christian? OR are you a person who calls themself a Christian and wants to twist the Word of God to fit your lifestyle or your worldview?

    I will let the Word of God do the judging of right and wrong; not my pre-conceived opinions.


    1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New King James Version)

    9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

    Footnotes:

    a. 1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites


    1 Peter 4:1-6

    1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us[a] in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. 3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime[b] in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. 4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. 5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:12 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Satan has always been so good at taking God's creation and perverting it...and this is just another example....

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:11 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    ifeelfine
    Thats because divorcees and adulterers aren't vying for special rights. and i know that homosexuality is a sin. it says in the Bible that it is. When it talks in romans about a man changing his natural affections that means that God intended for man's affections to be towards women....not another man...whether you want to say love is involved or not. Just because there's "love" doesn't mean its right. Because that is perverted form of love. That's not the love God intended.

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:27 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 3

    Prophet - No, I'm not sure homosexuality is a sin at all but am very clear that adultery and divorce are. Those things need to be dealt with and aren't. But boy, it seems like everyone's got the gays covered.

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:41 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 1

    Amen Prophet: Sin is SIn.

    it appears that ifeelfine is extremely progressive, and would rather have a more "liberal" interpretation to the Word of God. May I also say to ifeelfine, that passion is not everything. If you have much zeal (passion) without knowledge it is of no essence. The Bible is clear. You can take the Greek, the Hebrew, the Latin and Aramaic and translate it for yourself; the context of the writers who were inspired of the Lord to write it remains the same. You can't change it. God's Word is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Christ loves sinners. He still does. He still forgives, but one must repent. Christ sat with sinners, and ate with them, and extended forgiveness to them. however, as with the woman at the well, one can not twist what he told her - "go and sin no more". this means that if He commanded her not to sin anymore. She was willingly repenting, and turned from her sin.

    Ifeelfine, do you trully think that by misinterpreting Scripture, and skipping over those parts that don't agree with one's "worldview" or "social activities" or "worldy ideas" that Truth ceases to be Truth? There is a reason why the New Testament written close to 2000 years ago addresses the early church to stay in sound doctrine. Apparently there were some in the early church (the gnostics) who were teaching that people had a license to sin. The Apostle Paul addressed the issue. He also addressed the issue of sexual immorality to the Corinthian believers because some thought it was ok to fornicate, and one man was sleeping with his father's wife! Paul rebuked them sharply (read the 1st and 2nd letter to the Corinthians). Do you not think that when God says don't have sex with animals, don't lay with a man as you do a woman, and vice versa, that you can just passionately explain it away? No, sin is sin. regardless of whatever passion one may have, regardless of the acceptance of some cultures, regardless of the "legalness" of something. Just cause it's legal r allowed, or not frowned upon in a progressively permissive society doesn't make it right. You can choose to be all the progressive (liberal) you'd like, but the Truth will always be Truth in Scripture regardless of liberal spin on it. In Canada, a Pastor can't open the Bible and teach someone from it on a street corner. You know why, because the Bible contains some things that will offend (convict) many people, so those pastor's who choose to do so, will risk being incarcerated. This is what the left wing liberal proponents of this country are trying to force thru the defense spending bill by adding a very convenient addendum called "hate crimes legislation". this is coercion from the liberals in this country, and make no mistake about it, God does not turn a blind eye to that injustice either.

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Matthew 9:12-13
    "When Jesus heard this, Jesus replied, 'Healthy people don't need a doctor-sick people do'. Then he added, 'Now go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: I want you to be merciful; I don't want your sacrifices. For I have come to call sinners, not those who think they are already good enough'".

    I am not good enough, I slip up daily with my words, with a thought, how I eat, etc.

    We all for short of God's glorious standard.

    thank you Jesus that you died for all!

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:56 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    ifeelfine...
    are you justifying homosexuality by comaparing it with other "more popular" sins? Sin is sin.

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I just did a search and there hasn't been a story or column in CP that featured divorce prominantly since Nov 4. And not one person commented on the story. It's clear where your priorities are.

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Aids is a by product of the sin of ommission by both priest and pastors to not teach the Fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom, to every couple who gets married. Children raised with parents who watch over them, instruct them in the way they should go, discipline them, bring them to church every Sunday, demonstrate love for each other, read the bible together, keep the television off, will, enable their children to make inteligent wise decisions when tested.
    When their is no teaching on the Fear of the Lord, there will be no wisdom either!

  • Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:26 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    jc4me - I don't believe that I've ever called anyone on this board a bigot. I've certainly believed that there have been some folks that are misguided and hypocritical.

    I bring up divorce because everyone makes a big deal out of homosexuality when divorce and adultery (which Jesus spoke of directly) are much bigger problems for the church then homosexuality. The Bible is open to interpretation. To take it literally takes all of the love right out of it. This is an issue I am passionate about. I believe that this is the "slavery" issue of our time and progressive Christians with just as much conviction as the fundamentalists need to balance out the equation.

    I feel that I have made more rational statements about the subject than many of you. I doubt this is getting through to any of you because it seems as though your minds are made up already. Fine, if you think (or "know") homosexuality is a sin ask yourself, "Do I treat a divorcee who remarries the same as I'd treat a gay person?" or "Do I treat both of those issues the same?" I've read enough posts to know that the answer is no, you don't. I've seen words like perverts, etc used to describe gay people on this board. And I think its extremely hypocritical.

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