Conservative Christian bookstores are refusing to sell copies of a new Bible study guide that challenges standard New Testament translations that teach gay sex is sin.
U.S. distributor God’s Word to Women has banned the Australian publication and withdrawn another Bible translation by the same publishing company, Smith and Stirling, for promoting a lifestyle contradictory to scriptures, according to the Australian newspaper The Age.
Moreover, Australia’s largest Christian retailer, Koorong, said it is unlikely to carry Ann Nyland’s Study New Testament for Gay, Lesbian, Bi, and Transgender if the version proves controversial.
In the study guide, Nyland contends that the word “arsenokoites” has been wrongly interpreted to mean homosexual. According to the classical Greek lexicographer, the word’s meaning is one who anally penetrates another and does not exclusively apply to males, according to The Age.
She further claims that most New Testament translations are based on a lack of understanding of Greek word meaning, context, and disregard for academic research.
Because of Nyland’s authorship of the gay study Bible, two American scholars have withdrawn their endorsements from her other works.
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Ingoditrust this is not against you what i have to say is for every christian. God's says he will forgive that you r right ,it also says that homosexuality is wrong.You cannot live in sin knowly and get to heaven,you have to get away from it,stay away from it ask gods forginess, recieve god completely and then your sins r washed away,and ur free
2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
It is sad how the world is falling apart while the professing carriers of Truth do not know what they believe and argue amongst themselves. Lucifer has really been hitting hard.
The Bible wasn't written by God nor was it written by Jesus. The bible was written by men. It has it's strengths and it's discrepancies. You should take in with a grain of salt. In addition, there are thousands of ways to interpret the bible.
Homosexuality to me is not a sin.
Oh, and ingoditrust, it's not jcpg4; it was jc4me, and now is jesus4me. Thanks!
continued to ingoditrust:
I've got to tell you bro, if this doesn't help, then you need to truly pray and seek God, because his Word is the measuring stick for our lives, if we cal ourselves Christians and we as humans have a tendency within us to hear what we want, and to twist Scriptures to adapt to our culture, our surroundings, etc, when the Scriptures should not be adapting, but rather, they should be changing, our culture, and our surroundings; i.e. not the culture change our biblical beliefs to fit with the current trends or opinions in the culture. Anything else is false doctrine, and will be condemned by God. I will be praying for your eyes to be opened to the absolute truth of the Word of God.
ingoditrust:
you are catholic, and i assume you do read the scriptures right? I will say this as lovingly and as close to the Scriptural context as possible.
I can say that as a Christian, I am commanded to love the sinner and hate the sin. We are commanded in Scripture to love what God loves, and hate what God hates. I can choose to show love to homosexuals, adulterers, fornicators, drunkards, etc.. as a fellow human, but need to say that the lifestyle that some people choose to live out is not God's best for them. I have included some more Scriptures to show you that Homosexuality as well as a number of other sins is not pleasing to God. If we profess to be born again, and there is an evident desire to change and to repent, then that pleases God. Otherwise, we are in disobedience to our Lord and Savior. If we confess our sins, HE is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness. Once we chose to follow Christ and accept Him as Lord and Savior, we also choose to die to our flesh, our wills, and choose to pick up our cross daily and follow Christ.
Leviticus 18:22
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
The leviticus passage really leaves no room for interpretation does it?
1 Kings 14:24
24 There were even male shrine prostitutes in the land; the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New King James Version)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Footnotes:
a. 1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites
A proverbial term of reproach applied to those who practiced sodomy (ritual homosexuality) (Deuteronomy 23:17; 1 Kings 14:24;15:12;22:46; 2 Kings 23:7; Job)
And is applied to males (Deuteronomy 23:17)
Destroyed by fire as a judgement (Genesis 19:24,25)
Wickedness of (Genesis 19:4-14)
The word "harlot" ("shrine prostitute" (N. I. V.)) appears in (Genesis 38:21,22)
And is the translation of a Hebrew feminine form of the word translated elsewhere "sodomite" (Hosea 4:14)
To be judged according to opportunity (Matthew 11:24; Luke 10:12)
See SODOMY"
Oh yes, and I have an explanation for your poll. First of all, American atheists are raising their children to be much more radical, second, there was a huge islamic boom in the lapse of the two poles, third, sheesh they are interviewing people outside the church that are under the influence of new drugs, new products, and new propaganda.
Alright guys, I am Catholic so if you ask me: Is homosexuality the best thing in the world? I am gonna say "No" But homosexuality itself is no sin, acting and loving (bodily) under the veil of homosexuality is the sin. Jcpg4 or whatever the heck your name is, you clearly have the misconception that many radical fundamentalist Christians have. Two men can love each other with all their heart and make something beatiful out of their love. They can also do something evil and impure with it. One does not decide what one is, one decides what one becomes. Please remember that and do not post rash or unkind statements targetting people that are posting. This is a site for well-thought out statements and cool tempers, not for hurtful comments. And you are not the only one, please do not think I am targeting just you. Yours was just the last post I saw.
Its sad when an organization has a civil war amongst themselves. Fundamentalists and liberal Christians are fighting eachother over what they believe to be right. What Fundamentalists dont realize is that by picking such an extreme side to follow the bible literally and condeming people who dont follow suit is giving you guys a horrible reputation. Heres a research site conducted by a Christian Group
http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdateNarrow&BarnaUpdateID=280.
Give it a look tell me what you think.
By the way ifeelfine, the times I did commit heterosexual fornication prior to me marrying my wife, i had to choose to repent and turn from that sin. I confessed that to the Lord Jesus Christ, and He was faithful and just to forgive me of my unrighteousness. I did not just continually live in a state of sex outside of wedlock and just rationalize that because I was in love, or whatever, that God would somehow change His eternal Word and stance on the issue, and somehow cut me a break. No, I had to repent, and today, I am happily married with the woman I love and God forgave me for my pat when I was single and not liveing exactly for the Lord.
ifeelfine72 wrote:
"jc4me - pardon me for speaking for kybarsfang but he didn't "choose" that lifestyle anymore than you chose heterosexuality (assuming you are heterosexual). It is the way God made him.
And I feel that you will be in for a big surprise when you stand before God and he asks you why you treated the "least of his people" this way."
Ifeelfine, I am heterosexual and male. I chose to marry the woman God put in my life and I chose not to live in adultery, homosexuality, or fornication which are all sins. By the way, i haven't treated you or any other homosexuality without respect and dignity, but you want me to agree with you on that God created you and kybarsfang in that way, and that statement my friend is incorrect. God did not create me to fornicate or to adulterate, but to glorify Him with my body. Therefore, I would have to say, biblically speaking, God did not make you homosexual; rather, that is your choice to live that way. God put a conscience in you that will tell you when you are in error, now if you continue to harden your heart you can eventually sear your conscience. You can argue all you want, but there is nothing in Scripture to back up a homosexual practicing homosexuality, and still be a born again believer. I'm sorry, but if you have issue with that, then you can take it up with God. I will not agree with you promoting homosexuality, telling people that God made them that way, so you can justify your stance, and then twist the Scriptures while you're at it. It's just not gonna happen, I will not agree with you, because homosexuality is a sin, as well as every other sexual sin.
kevinVT You humor me so-----Yes how did John fail? because he walk into a bar filled with gays and even if he did did he stay there? No I think he repent publicly and went about his live as a forgiven believer in Jesus Christ. Open your mind Kevin to the truth. open your heart you the reality of Jesus Christ and what He has done for you. The facts are there thousand have left your lifestyle, thousands, some have fallen away some have slipped and fell (John P) many many others are walking this Christian walk knowing that Jesus has forgiven them and that they are free from the clutches that sins, like homosexuality had on them. Jesus said if you sin you are a slave to sin, Who is your master sir. Jesus also said I came to set the captive free. Are you free from the evil one, or does he keep playing you like a puppet like he does all who are a slave to him. Jesus said you are either for me or against me. Which are you Kevin, ifeelfine, torus, feet, Tom, GMG, JC4me, Jester are ya for Him who saves or against Him. If you are for Him, " He says sin no more" He says if you love Me(Jesus) then follow my(Jesus) teachings. He is waiting for you that have walked away from the faith to come back to His truth. He is waiting for you who have not accepted Him as Lord. you will one day, will it be to late? I don't know it is up to you. We will be praying for you
Gods Blessing
In Christ
Tom
Heads in the sand. Just keep them there.
There are not thousands and thousands of success stories for NARTH. Quite the contrary. A very few, and even those are probably people who weren't really gay to begin with. Even the leaders of many of these ex-gay organizations have backslid. John Paulk, anyone? Posterboy.
And for the record, I am not closed minded, I just look at the facts, as in scientific facts, the verifiable ones, as opposed to the ravings and imagination of NARTH crazies.
Enjoy your closed-mindedness, I'm off on vacation from insanity.
forgive me Tom. i put the wrong name on that post. i am sorry.
Ah Jester this may be a dumb question but are you answering my post or someone elses? I'm thinking something got lost in translation here. I serve the same God or at least I thought I did.
Gods blessing on you and yours
In Christ
Tom
Kevin and ifeelfine and the rest of you arguing for homosexuality are you all are the close minded individuals I have ever seen. In spite of all the evidence you still deny what research and personal testimony and what the word of God himself says. Man you all are so hard heart I pray God will often it and give you just a touch of what he has in store for you if you submit to Him. The only ones I know that says Narth is discredit are the ones who have the same world view as the rest of you. Once again explore their site and notice there has been a study that just came out. Which claims a roughly 30% success rate for those who have seen the Light and wish to leave the lifestyle you advocate. It called "Ex-Gays a longitudinal study of Religiously mediated change in sexual orientation" go ahead give it a look see. Also as GMG says what about the thousands and thousands of ex-gays that have left you lifestyle and now live lives of freedom from the homosexual bondage. How do you answer that sirs?
Were praying for ya. Gods Blessing on you and yours
In Christ
Tom
KevinVT - you said "NARTH is a totally discredited organization. Even they no longer claim people can change their orientation. People can change their _behavior_ -- but not their desire. There are no success stories, though there are many many people who are ex-ex-gays. I would even go so far to say that NARTH and its ilk are themselves objectively evil since they harm people and cause serious psychological damage and trauma."
Okay, apply this to alcoholics, people addicted to poronography, anger issues, gambling, the list goes on and on. Because they can not change their desire, only their behavior, should we tell them to give it up? Should we then pat them on the back and say it's okay, we understand they were made that way so they shouldn't even try to change what "can't be changed", because after all it could be so psychologically damaging and cause so much trauma.
There are many who have successfully made this lifestyle change, and I do not think they would appreciate being told they are not a success story. Go ask Joe Dallas at joedallas.com what he thinks, he thinks he's a successful ex-homosexual.
" would think that we as Christians should always be searching for the truth - not just what is comfortable for us. It took me a long time to accept that homosexuality the way we know it now (loving relationships, etc) is not sinful."
You know what's comfortable to me? Lust. Fornication. Lying. But I have searched the Truth and found that it is not comfortable, because it says to not lust, fornicate, lie, steal, etc, etc. I could probably distort and twist scripture enough to make it okay in my eyes, pretty much the way you approach homosexuality. You talk about being comfortable in our judgement of homosexuals, but yet you say nothing about the homosexuals being comfortable in sin. I am being no more judgemental than the homosexual is sinning.
ifeelfine wrote:
"Tom - I think you need to read the evidence. Overwhelmingly psychologists don't think you can change your sexual orientation without some major consequences..."
So you take human wisdom and classify it higher that God's Wisdom the Bible?
ifeelfine also wrote:
"I would think that we as Christians should always be searching for the truth - not just what is comfortable for us. It took me a long time to accept that homosexuality the way we know it now (loving relationships, etc) is not sinful."
What do you do with the Book of Leviticus, Romans, and I Corinthians which obviously and clearly deal with the issue. Sounds to me that the one uncomfortable accepting God's Inspired Word of Truth is you and you seem to twist it in a way that goes in line with your line of thinking, but be not mistaken ifeelfine, God's Word never changes despite the post modern/liberal.progressive/emergent false gospels with the added post modern concepts, definitions,additions, and ommissions to God's Word written over 2000 years ago.
think again ifeelfine, you are the one who is uncomfortable with the Word of God, and as such you consistently twist it to justify your contemporary interpretation to a sexual sin called homosexuality.
NARTH is a totally discredited organization. Even they no longer claim people can change their orientation. People can change their _behavior_ -- but not their desire. There are no success stories, though there are many many people who are ex-ex-gays. I would even go so far to say that NARTH and its ilk are themselves objectively evil since they harm people and cause serious psychological damage and trauma.
The founder of NARTH, Charles Socarides, once claimed that homosexuality was caused by an unhealthy family. Then his son grew up to be gay. So either he was wrong, or he was a bad parent, or perhaps both (no doubt his son was traumatized by his professionally homophobic father).
To quote the wikipedia article on him, "The modern medical and scientific consensus is that attempts at eliminating same-sex attractions are not effective and are potentially harmful."
That's okay Tom, I like you fine when you're crabby!!
God Bless You
ifeelfine you make me snicker Narth has a agenda and you don't. You know what their agenda is the truth which so far appears to be something you don't much care about. Let me ask you something feelfine do you stand up for anything that God and His word says or do you just decide that you don't want to believe something because it is to hard or might hurt someones feelings no matter if it is the truth or not. I think you do. If I sound a little hard I am sorry but you remind of so many watered down Christians that wouldn't stand for the truth if God came knocking on your door and told you to. You all amaze me to no end and you call us ignorant I think the shoe fits better on you then it does for us who believe what God says in His word. Okay so I am crabby but some times ya just gotta let loose. We'll be praying for ya ifeelfine.
Gods Blessing
In Christ
Tom
Tom - I think you need to read the evidence. Overwhelmingly psychologists don't think you can change your sexual orientation without some major consequences. I've checked out narth - they clearly have an agenda and aren't interested in the truth. I would think that we as Christians should always be searching for the truth - not just what is comfortable for us. It took me a long time to accept that homosexuality the way we know it now (loving relationships, etc) is not sinful.
SO you have not read of the many many theologians who would dispute you and have for over 2000 years. Have you tried looking at the Narth web site. Do you know the new study that has come out that show that people can change? I would guess not. You just seem to lean on your own understanding and not learned from them who have been studing scrpiture since the beginning. Is it hate to to stand up for what scripture says? to stand up for what is Gods precepts? Is it hate to want to show those who are walking in sin that it will lead to death if they don't repent and turn from their sin and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Or is it hate to just let them die in their sins without knowing and end up in the lake of fire. God Blessing on you and yours
In Christ
Tom
When you say "we are all born with the ability to hate" that is made eminently clear by this board. A very Christian virtue, apparently.
For those into etymology and jumping to conclusions, check the etymology of cretin. Reading these comments, it seems logical to me.
No legitimate psychologist believes that gay men and lesbians can change their orientation.
Not that this has anything to do with the text, which you people THINK you understand, but you don't actually know ancient languages and societies, do you? It's YOU who are modernizing and twisting the text out of context, not Prof. Nyland.
you see ifeelfine that is where you are wrong--They are not born that way, read the evidence sir, take a look at the differant web sites that have been brought up in this web site. Look at the evidence it isn't there, also if you would care to look there is amble evidence that an indivual can change ones sexual orientation. But even if it they were born that way it is still sin just as the Bible says. I find it laughable that all of a sudden after 6000 years in the OT and 2000 years in the NT soembody came up with the secrett message concerning this particularr sin. And even it they were born that way it would still be a sin. We all are born with the ability to kill to hate to do wrong and according to the Bible it is still a sin to do so or have you found a different meaning for that also.
Gods Blessing on you and yours
In Christ
Tom
jc4me - pardon me for speaking for kybarsfang but he didn't "choose" that lifestyle anymore than you chose heterosexuality (assuming you are heterosexual). It is the way God made him.
And I feel that you will be in for a big surprise when you stand before God and he asks you why you treated the "least of his people" this way.
Tom, i agree with you. This so called scholar has taken 2000 years of Scriptural content, and now wants to spin it from a post modern viewpoint to satisfy the ever increasing group of persons who have chosen the homosexual lifestyle, so in order to reach them and not step on toes, she has conveniently liberalized certain Greek words that have historically meant homosexuality, but according to her "new: interpretation they ms something else. She is the one who is twisting the Scriptures, and ifeelfine is just trying to have his ears tickled by this teacherso he can justify his sins, or his friends sins. I have no idea if he is gay or not, but he sure loves defending the gay lifestyle as being ok and not sinful.
Now kybarsfang on the other hand has explained that he is homosexual, and although I totally disagree with the lifestyle he has chosen, and have exhorted him in the Word to repent, he at least wants to hear the truth, or at least it seems that way. I have tried further reaching out to him with the Word, but he too has an extremely liberal/post modern interpretation of what homosexuality is and what it means.
I fear that many in today's church who call themselves born again and choose to accept homosexuality as a normal lifestyle wil have a rude awakening when they stand before God with the people who chose adultery, fornication, bestiality, and all other sexual abherrations. I have been on this site for the past month exposing the truth on this article, and others, and I have been exhorting others to stay in Sound Biblical Doctrine, but I am not the Holy Spirit. I have done my part, and wil continue to do so, but I cannot interfere in their willful adherence to the error they have chosen. Therefore, if they have chosen a lifestyle that is clearly against the BIble, and continue in their sins, then all I can say is, they will answer to God for wanting to water down the Scriptures and endorse the watering down of the Scriptures.
kybarsfang wrote:
"That's a pretty cool quote, jc4me, but I'm not too sure if it's a response to me or a random posting or what your purpose is with it. I have an idea, but I'd like to hear from you."
What quote are you referring to. I was speaking to you about how the Word of God says homosexuality is a sexual sin just like all the other sins I mentioned, then Kevin VT said that what we (conservative Bible believeing Christians) consider holy, he considers blaphemous, but i'm confused as to what quote you're talking about. Is it the one right below ifeefine when he went bulistic on everyone of us conservative Christians?
Is it one that may have gotten flagged by someone who didn't like me saying homosexuality is a sin? I don't know. I saw that there was an awful lot of flagging on, and i just came back to the site today, so i don't know. let me know what you're referring to.
Tom, If you read the story then you would know that what they are saying is that the Bible hasn't said that for 2000 years. It was translated improperly. That is what the story is saying. It's obvious you don't think it was. I'm not an expert on ancient Greek and ancient Hebrew but I'll trust the experts and she clearly is one. Cheers!
It is interesting that after some 2000 years of Christianity and some 6000 years of the Jewish religion, which taught that homosexaultiy is a sin, (along with many other sins) Ifeelfine and some of his friends he has found have now found a new meaning for what the plain words of the Bible says. They seem to have twisted the scripture to justify the sins they want to condone instead of trying to help them who are involved in it to escape it's unrighteous clutches. Man Sodom and Gomorrah should be screaming out for justice to be done. That's about what i said.
Gods Blessing
In Christ
Tom
Good way to avoid hearing a truth you don't want to hear. Go ahead: don't buy the book, don't listen to scholars who know what they're talking about.
Signing off!
Yeah, it looks like most of them were myself and KevinT. Oh, well. I tried to help. Have a good day, all!
looks like they flagged everyone
Yeah Jester, wish someone would tell us what all the excitement was about. And Tom is never offensive, though he occasionally can speak with double exclamation points when he gets "crabby" (his description, not mine)!
geez...i can't leave for a few hours and all hades breaks loose! what's up with that?
Hey, what is everyone getting flagged for. And who on earth flagged Tom - I can't believe he said anything worth flagging.
That's a pretty cool quote, jc4me, but I'm not too sure if it's a response to me or a random posting or what your purpose is with it. I have an idea, but I'd like to hear from you.
ifeelfine: Thanks for the concern. I appreciate it. I see what you see here, but I still wanted to try. Truth above all and all that jazz.
Peter 4
1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us[a] in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. 3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime[b] in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. 4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. 5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
kybarsfang - You are definitely beating your head against a brick wall. jc4me, et al aren't interested in your point of view unless they can twist it. They talk out of both sides of their mouths. They talk about God's love (the tantamount of scripture) out of one side and spew venomous hate out of the other side when it comes to homosexuality.
There are more than 3000 translations of the Bible in English alone. jc4me, which one is the true Word of God? And forgive me for being contrary but you are lumping in all gay people with NAMBLA. jc4me - do you bomb abortion clinics? I have to lump you in with those conservative Christians. Not all conservative Christians bomb abortion clinics but everyone who bombs an abortion clinic is a conservative Christian. It would be "intellectually dishonest" of me not to mention that.
Kybarsfang, I would also like for you to explain if God initially wanted homosexuality to be a part of His overall plan, then why would HE create Adam and Eve, and not Adam ad Steve. God Created man with a penis, and woman with a vagina for enjoyment and procreating, but wen you consider what homosexual sex endorses, it is totally sick. There is nothing holy about anal and oral sex between two consenting homosexual males, and oral sex along with strap on devices for homosexual female couples, then why would God endorse homosexuality? And, just for the record, hermaphrodites are not born homosexuals, they just happen to have an abnormality in their body, which is totally different to lets say you having an unatural inclination as a male to have sex with another male, and wating to rewrite Scripture to adapt to your inclination/sin nature.
Continued to Kybarsfang:
Let me make it clear once more and very clear, I do not believe that anyone should be rewriting the Bible to suit to anyone’s sins. I again was making a comparison of how foolish it is when people think homosexual behavior can't be proven biblically, and if that becomes common ground for people to believe, then might as well include all the other sinners with a seeker sensitive translation. Do you get my point now? I still think homosexuality as well as all those other sins and the many more written in Scriptures are sin, but when people like Kevin VT say homosexuality is nowhere to be found in the Bible, it is a lie on his part, and he is being extremely intellectually dishonest.
By the way kybarsfang, i did not and will not say that all people with a homosexual tendency are pedophiles or people who have sex with animals. However, i will say that most if not all in NAMBLA are homosexuals and they are pedophiles, so to negate the fact that they have a huge part in promoting homosexuality and the connection between some homosexuals and pedophilia would be intellectually ignorant, as well as misleading on my part. I did not mean to lump you in with NAMBLA; nor do I think you are a pedophile for being homosexual. I am glad that you find them a detestable organization as do I, but I still think you need to seriously consider the Bible when it shows homosexuality as a clear sin just like adultery, fornication, etc.
I also would like to know what your views on GLSTN are, and what they are doing in the public schools with our tax payer dollars.
kybarsfang wrote:
"And for you and the others on here who say that the bible can be rewritten to "be sensitive to the murderer, the fornicator, the wife beater, the serial killer and the adulterer as well," I challenge you to do so. Show that there are passages in the bible, based on the original text and that context of that text, that promotes those things as being okay. I've heard each of those groups justifying themselves with the Bible, but so far I haven't seen a study or report yet that says that the original text does not implicate those groups. Until you can bring forth the same points I'm trying to bring up, about misinterpretation in today's doctrine, how can you lump homosexuality with those sins? "
I am not endorsing rewriting the Bible to be sensitive to muderers, and serial killers, and adulterers, liars, and what not. My premise is that if the Bible, the clear and concise Word of God teaches that all these sins including HOMOSEXUALITY is a sin, then the people who condone homosexal behavior by rewriting the Bible and endorse the rewriting of Scripture really have not leg to stand on. In other words, if you are going to accept rewriting the Word (which I am strictly against), then you would also have to lump up all those other sins the Bible clearly shows as sins and rewrite it from a post modern perspective for those who feel the same way you do about homosexuality. I was just trying to make a point and was being sarcastic about it to point the futility in the argument by many secualar progressives, as well as many who call themselves Christians and are clearly endorsing this lady in doing what she is doing.
jc4me: If you don't mind me having a heated moment here, NAMBLA is gross. I can't believe that that organization exists. I am NOT a pedophile, and yet, because of this organization, people assume I am. Pedophilia, rape, and bestiality, all of which have been attributed to aspects of the GTBT community, are completely separate aspects of a person than homosexuality. Two men or two women consenting to love each other is very different in a nonconsentual situation such as rape or taking advantage of a child or animal.
And for you and the others on here who say that the bible can be rewritten to "be sensitive to the murderer, the fornicator, the wife beater, the serial killer and the adulterer as well," I challenge you to do so. Show that there are passages in the bible, based on the original text and that context of that text, that promotes those things as being okay. I've heard each of those groups justifying themselves with the Bible, but so far I haven't seen a study or report yet that says that the original text does not implicate those groups. Until you can bring forth the same points I'm trying to bring up, about misinterpretation in today's doctrine, how can you lump homosexuality with those sins?
Continued:
I suppose the word "catamite" referred to in the 1 letter to the Corinthian Church written by the Apostle Paul which in roman times was an adult male who used a male boy for sexual pleasure really has no implication for modern times, since NAMBLA, one of the so called champions of the homosexual cause actually endorses pedophilia, but no, no application for modern times here; no I don’t see any facts, do you, nope.
Hmmmmm, funny that some of the pro-homosexual people here are saying homosexuality is a modern concept when the scholar Mrs Nylan who is rewriting and reinterpreting the Scriptures from a post modern, liberal perspective is taking nearly 2000 years of God’s Word in it's original context and rewriting it to mean some other definition. She is saying she has the true translation to the Scriptures –of course, nearly 2000 years after the original writers wrote it.
No, never mind the facts we've presented, let's look at a woman who is clearly a post modern emergent who has decided to rewrite the Scriptures, and take that as fact, because after all, the post moden liberals would love to make the Bible morally relative today; just like our culture is. Hmm…hint, hint….. I ask, hey Kevin VT, and Kybarsfang, why not just rewrite the Bible to be sensitive to the murderer, the fornicator, the wife beater, the serial killer and the adulterer as well, and while she's at it, why not reinterpret the Word for the liar and the thief and the pedophile, and people who have sex with animals too.
It's also funny how groups like GLSTN have also interjected their homosexual agenda in the public schools of South Florida, as well as other places around the country, but the pro-homosexual so-called "Christians" think it's derogatory to bring up groups like this when talking about the depravity of homosexual sin, but i guess we're the bigots who bring up the facts.
TPRBABE wrote:
"OK, so let me get this straight. The gay man who plays the "woman" in the relationship would not be homosexual, it's the gay man who plays the "man" who is homosexual because he penetrates the other man's anus?
<scratching head ...>
I'm no "classical Greek lexicographer" like Ms. Nyland, but I do know how to look up the roots of words. "Arsenokoites" is a compound word, made from the combination of "Arsen" (male) and "Koites" (sexual union - where we get the word 'coitus').
In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, it can't mean female fornicators ("Pornos") or adulterers ("Moichos"), since they are different words altogether, and Paul already named those two groups as not inheriting the kingdom of God anyway. The only people left to have sex with men, then, would be other men ... so silly me; I guess that men having sex with other men are homosexual. Now why didn't I think of that?"
You're so right on tuprbabe, and to think that someone as scholarly as KevinVT would write:
""a social liberal scholar who has twisted the meaning of the Greek out of context to endorse homosexuality, and has gone so far as to re-write the Bible "
Actually you have it exactly backwards: she's the scholar who knows what the original Greek in context would have meant. It's you folks who have twisted the meaning into something meaning "homosexual." There was no concept of homosexual in Biblical times. Did not exist. No word for it in any language. It's a modern concept. Sorry.
And interesting that some of you admit you are homophobic, as well as demonstrating it."
We're not "twisting the Bible to justify our sin", we're showing that there is truth in the Word that current doctrine fails to acknowledge. I've seen several people here, both pro-gay and anti-gay. who have provided different translations of the same passage. Anybody here should know that literally reading the Bible without any thought at all to the context of the passage results in statements that don't fit. If we read the Bible word-for-word and took the literal words as their own context (that is, once we decided which of the several current translations of the Bible to read from), then we would interpret that it took God six 24-hour periods to create everything (which would assume He obeyed a time system invented in the Roman age), and it would be impossible for a rich person to enter Heaven (good luck fitting that camel through a needle eye, right?). However, the magic of the Word lies in its context, in knowing more about the story thanks to further research, or understanding of the metaphor. What I see here among the dissenters is a failure to go beyond quoting from whatever translation they have available and prove their statements with context. The original scrolls that made up the first Bible were not written in English, and we assume that King James and his people translated everything in the context of what God wants. If I recall correctly, these are the same people who said you could buy your way into Heaven.
When you blindly follow the heard and don't research what you believe in yourself, I feel that is where evil can grab you and make you feel holy while you are actually doing wrong.
Also:
"One said I am disturbed. Another said the concept of homosexuality did not exist in biblical times. I appreciate the good laugh. You champions of perversion and immorality ought to go into the comedy business."
This statement is way more sarcastic than I'd expect from someone who claims to understand the true intentions of God. My understanding is that we should work toward humility, instead of making prideful statements. I apologize if I am misinterpreting you, but it feels to me that I am not.
One said I am disturbed. Another said the concept of homosexuality did not exist in biblical times. I appreciate the good laugh. You champions of perversion and immorality ought to go into the comedy business.
"a social liberal scholar who has twisted the meaning of the Greek out of context to endorse homosexuality, and has gone so far as to re-write the Bible "
Actually you have it exactly backwards: she's the scholar who knows what the original Greek in context would have meant. It's you folks who have twisted the meaning into something meaning "homosexual." There was no concept of homosexual in Biblical times. Did not exist. No word for it in any language. It's a modern concept. Sorry.
And interesting that some of you admit you are homophobic, as well as demonstrating it.
SportinLife wrote:
""Adultery, fornication, and homosexuality"
jc4me, why is it that heterosexual christians put so much emphasis on the one they're not personally interested in, and hardly raise any fuss at all about the far more prevalent other two?
Gay people get prevented from being able to legally care for each other by constitutional amendment, while Rudy Giuliani gets endorsed by Pat Robertson! Surely you can see why some people think there's prejudice at work, and not simply interpretation of the bible."
Have you even read the title of this article? It has to do with a social liberal scholar who has twisted the meaning of the Greek out of context to endorse homosexuality, and has gone so far as to re-write the Bible with a gay study manual encouraging gay people to stay in their sins without repenting and turning their bacvks on those inclinations.
Had the article been about heterosexual adultery, and heterosexual fornication or promiscuity amongst youth in America, i would have written more to do with how people need to repent of those sins as well. I only used adultery and homosexuality in my post so that readers with common sense would see that in the eyes of God, sexual sin is sexual sin. Gods natural order of things is one man and one woman joined in holy matrimony. Anything outside those confines is sin in the eyes of God. So where is the prejudice you are talking about?
Obviously, you're spinning the Gospel presentation I posted out of context. Regardless of what you feel, or think, homosexuality as well as the other sexual sins I posted are detestable in the eyes of God. I do not know if you claim yourself to be a born again Christian, but if you do, please read the Bible, and get acquainted with it, because it is the measuring stick to how we are to live our lives as born again beleivers. Thank You.
I think for the most part I pray we acknowledge that homosexuality is a sin and one should repent and turn away from such behavior but at the same time in issuing that call to repentance phrases like:
"Well, I hate to tell you, but actions and deeds speak much louder than words. I supposed you also think that lesbian dyke in the episcopal church..."
and
"I couldn't care less what these perverts do in bath houses, or dark alleys..."
I am afraid sir your words in this case speak louder than the actions you were expounding....
We all have a tendency to rationalize our own sin, even when we know it is sin. Romans says that sin is known by the Law and the Law is written on every heart, believer and non-believer alike.
Those who would dismiss homosexuality, adultery, fornication, taking God's name in vain, being prideful, etc. as being human failures, or worse ok, because God made us this way, are only fooling themselves and they know it. I recommend we don't try to change behavior but love the sinner and try to help them when they ask for help. At the same time, however, we have to call sin what it is and warn the sinner of the consequences of their sin. When a society accepts a certain sin as normal and ok, society begins the downward path to its own destruction.
"Adultery, fornication, and homosexuality"
jc4me, why is it that heterosexual christians put so much emphasis on the one they're not personally interested in, and hardly raise any fuss at all about the far more prevalent other two?
Gay people get prevented from being able to legally care for each other by constitutional amendment, while Rudy Giuliani gets endorsed by Pat Robertson! Surely you can see why some people think there's prejudice at work, and not simply interpretation of the bible.
ifeelfine At least He isn't afraid to stand up for what Christianty is and what it is based on. Instead of trying to twist it into what you want it to say. Despite thousands of years of the same message you and others like you have come up with new revelation on what it means. How convenient. and how shallow. Oh well,, Gods Blessing on you
In Christ
Tom
John5796 - you might seriously be disturbed.
To KevinVT who said:"contrary to Christian beliefs? "
Contrary to your homophobic interpretation, but not to that of many, many other Christians. Including Desmond Tutu.
Look how many clergy signed in support of same sex marriage in Vermont, and that's just one small state!
http://www.vtfreetomarry.org/clergy.php#3
You seem to think that just because someone "says" they are Christian that it is so. Well, I hate to tell you, but actions and deeds speak much louder than words. I supposed you also think that lesbian dyke in the episcopal church who refuses a vow of celabacy is a "Christian" too. Anyone who approves of this disgusting immoral lifestyle needs to look in the mirror, and then look at what the word of God says. And as I said in another post somewhere, I guess you could call me homophobic. My moral beliefs make me that way, and since morality is a sure prevention for aids and other filthy deseases, this "desease" of homophobia is something to be proud of. I couldn't care less what these perverts do in bath houses, or dark alleys, but when they try to pervert Christianity into accepting their disgusting activities, that is what all of this is about. The bible says the same thing it has always said, and it always will.
We are alll tempted to sin, in thought and in deed. It would not be sin if it was not tempting. We do seem to have got hung up on homosexuality as THE greatest sin, I mean it is sinful, its against Gods plan for us, his design for us but there are loads of other sins too. Lying, stealing, blashemy....how many of us Christians spout ''Oh My God! '' without a thought these days and listen to those who say, ''Oh. MY. GooooOOD!!!'' and do nothing to defend His Holy name. So, i believe homosexuality is not the plan our creator God has for us, but, we need to love the sinner and hate the sin. We are do what God wants, not what we want. We'll always get it wrong!! He is the creator, he tells us how it is to be and no, sometimes its a tough road. If we are not in a struggle over something in our lives....where is our cross we were told to pick up and walk with? Life is not easy. But one day we'll go home. Thats our eternal hope, not that we will have it all our own way now. We are ALL sinners. Not one of us is worthy. We are saved by His grace and anyone can be. God wants ALL to come to Him but we cannot choose the terms. When we see someone living in sin, its our opportunity to intercede for them, not critise them. Its tough but we can do all things because He first loved us.
Only the Blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ can cleanse us of all unrighteousness and filthy sin - this does include many other things, but as it pertains to this article - adultery, fornication, and yes, homosexuality. Too many in today's church want to cover up sin, and be politically relevent to today's "culture". They water-down the Wrod of God, and twist it to make it seem more "pleasant" to the ears. Many people want to hear what feesds their ego; they don;t want to hear the truth that transforms lives for their own good and for God's pleasure.
The Bible tells us that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. None of us are without sin. The Good News is that Jesus Christ became God in the flesh for us! He decended from his exalted heavenly place, and willfully shed His Prescious Blood and gave up His life so that we may have a relationship with God the Father our Creator.
We need to first acknowledge that we are all sinners; we need to repent - that is to literally and willfully choose to turn away from our old life of living in sins; we need to ask for forgiveness and accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior of our lives (this means we hand over our free will to Him, and choose toi obey His commands and teachings). We must put our total trust and confidence ino Him, and then follow Him.
The question is, have we trully repented, and turned back from our sin. That is to say, if we're willfully, and rebelliously living in sin, have we made a conscious choice to turn from that sin, die to ourselves, pick up our crosses daily and follow Christ?
None of these sins are unpardonable, but God has given us a free choice. We must choose this day whom we will serve. Are we going to choose to gratify our flesh and live in sin, or are we going to die to ourselves, and choose to follow Christ Jesus?
Whoever doesn't truly know Christ on this site, please give your life to him. You will not regret it. He will never bring up your past. We all have pasts, but God can make you a new person, and as you continue to seek after Him and as you surrender your life to Him, He will continue to mold you and make you into the vessel of honor He wants you to be. I hope this touches someone out there, and may the Lord turn your heart to repentance. God Bless You.
Prophet: Amen and Amen as well!!!!!
jester in the Kings court: preach it brother - Amen and Amen.
But just because Jesus understand our plight, it doesnt give you permission to stay the way you are. Remember, He was tempted, but remained sinless! He asks the same of us. Jesus came down to our level to help lift us up to His. He doesn't say "Oh, you're a homosexual. That's ok. You're fine." Instead He says, "I know what you're going through! I've been there! But I've made a way for you to escape that sin! I paid the price! I conquered so that you would not be conquered! I love you and want you here with me!"
If our brains were so simple we could understand it...we would be so simple we could not. I think that goes the same for God. I agree with you proph. God is bigger than any of us. And we try to bring Him down to our level. Because if we can, then we will know that we are alright. And that its ok to stay the way we are. God will understand because He is like us. But He does understand.
"Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need." Hebrews 4:14-16
He was tempted every way we are. Was He temtped with lust? Most likely. I know that pisses a lot of self-righteous Christians off, but that's between them and God. Was He tempted to steal? Lie? And, God forbid, homosexuality? Could be. Oh my God! That's blasphemy! That's sacrilege! Let me repeat the scripture I just posted: "...but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin." There is a difference between temptation and sin. Just because you are tempted, doesn't mean you've sinned. Sin is the surrender to temptation. So when I say that Jesus was probably temtped with homosexuality don't get your religious panties in a knot! Jesus wasn't a homosexual. He was tempted so that He could empathize with us. (for those of you who are etymologically challenged, that means He could feel and understand what we are going through)
My wife was born barren. And God healed her. Everyone is born into sin. If it were not so, then we would not need Jesus's sacrifice and the Cross would be a waste of time. The effects of sin is death. There is also the matter of "generational curses" or "generational sins"...i.e. the sins of our fathers and how their sins affect following generations.
But regardless...my wife was born barren...unable to have kids and God healed her. She was born chronic-depressive/suicidal...she had a chemical imbalance. She was on medication for it. God healed her. My son was born with severe ADHD. Doctors told us he would be on medication for the rest of his life becaue of it. God healed him. He hasn't taken medication in three years and is on the honor roll at his junior high. My daughter was born with ASD (a hole between the chambers of her heart). Doctors said the only remedy was open heart surgery. God healed her without surgery. What was the cause of all these? Sin. Who's sin? Maybe my mother's. Maybe mine. Maybe no one's. Sin affects everyone, and we are all born into sin.
The point is...God is bigger than sin. And he's bigger than any "abnormality" that comes at birth. God is bigger than generational curses. He's bigger than barreness, ADHD, homosexuality, lust, adultery, theivery, anger, bitterness, pride, impotency, etc, etc. God's power is sufficient for all, but effecient only for those who accept it.
Which brings the story from another angle. As you can see, there are SO many diferent ways to interpret the words left us from the times written about in the Bible. I mean, just look at all the denominations we have in our faith. If there was one true way of thinking, if the Bible was as forward and clear-cut as some of you are saying/implying it is, then there wouldn't be so much disagreement within our own religion! What I'm trying to say here is that the Word is a LIVING document, not static, and there is more than one way to look at every passage, and that seems to be the prevelant reason why we cannot agree: you believe your interpretation is better or more accurate than mine.
My intention in looking further into the Bible isn't to "justify my sin" but rather to justify my existance. I know how I've felt over the pest couple decades and I've been trying to understand just why God would let me feel this way if the Bible says I should be killed on the spot for it. And when I put my faith in Jesus and ask for guidance, this is where He always seems to lead me: toward the idea that I'm okay, and that I need to try and search for the truth. I need to question everything and make sure that I'm on the right path.
And one question that I found out doesn't seem to have an answer yet: hemaphrodites. If gender roles were meant to be so static and rigid, why did He create people who have no discernable gender, or both genders? Are they technically homosexual (or even heterosexual or bisexual) if they are biologically both genders, or no real gender at all?
And for Jester: could you please point out to me a support group for recovering impotent people, people who were born with the sin of impotence but were healed through faith and prayer? Honestly, I want to know if it exists. By your logic, it should.
This is kind along, so please bear with me:
"Leviticus 18:22
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
The leviticus passage really leaves no room for interpretation does it?"
Actually, it does. I've seen it interpreted different ways, including the version you just quoted and "Man shouldn't have sex with another man in a woman's bed, because the bed is unclean." I've also seen the word "detestible" be published as "abomination", and if I recall correctly, the original word actually refers to ritual uncleanliness as opposed to grevious sin.
As as for the word "sodomy", the sin of Sodom was inhospitality, not homosexuality. That place was already slated for destruction due to all sorts of bad behavior, and an example chosen to be recorded in the writings that we now call The Bible was one of deep inhospitality. Men were greater than women at the time; women were pretty much just property. Thus, the worst way to treat someone was to treat him as a woman, i.e. rape him. And to do it to somone's guest...well, that was just downright evil. It was at this point that the angels saw that there was no redeeming the city, and sent Lot and his family on its way. I'm not sure why chrches don't testify this facy, because even Jesus references the story of Sodom as a warning against inhospitality.
And even what I've researched on the subject so far may be inaccurate. I recently saw this passage on a forum:
"With all that in mind, a far more consistent theory has been developed by Bible scholars. Since yadha' commonly means "to get acquainted with," the demand to "know" the visitors may well have implied some serious breach of the rules of hospitality. Several considerations provide support for this view.
In the first place, Lot was not a native of Sodom, but had the status of a resident alien, or stranger. As such, he may not have had the right to admit unidentified foreigners to the city. City gates were closed at night expressly to prevent lawless or subversive aliens from entering on unknown errands, and travelers carried credentials because they might at any time be asked to prove that they were abroad on legitimate business. Thus we might translate "Bring them out to us, that we may know them" as "We wish to know whom you are bringing as guests into our city." Lot's refusal to turn his visitors over to this horde of vigilantes is totally in keeping with the contemporary laws of etiquette, because in those days no civic police force protected strangers in a city. Any kind of robbery or physical abuse could have been meted out to the two angels if he had agreed to surrender them, but in his home they were safe. He was obliged to protect them as honored guests. It is certain that the Sodomites were demanding he violate the code of hospitality, but not at all clear from the text that they were inclined to indulge in homosexual acts."
Ironically, it's the people claiming to understand this word "arsenokoites" as referring to homosexuals who are guilty of changing the meaning of the Bible by inserting modern interpretations.
I don't believe G "koites" and L "coitus" are in fact related. Sounds like folk etymology to me. "koites" has to do with beds, while "coitus" is a compound of co (together) + ire (going). The G equivalent would have the prefix "syn" and not "ko"
Leviticus 18:22
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
The leviticus passage really leaves no room for interpretation does it?
Answer 1: And do you eat shellfish or keep kosher?
Answer 2: this passage only forbids lying with a man AS WITH A WOMAN -- but what if you do it a different way?
kybarsfang -
I can't know where your struggle is or where you are at. But I have read a book by Joe Dallas that gave me some insight. He was a practicing homosexual in a church that embraced homosexuality, and at some point he began to question his lifestyle. He is a Christian and gave up that lifestyle. If you're interested, go to joedallas.com
May God go with you.
the Greek word "Arsenokoites" is a compound word, made from the combination of "Arsen" (male) and "Koites" (sexual union - where we get the word 'coitus'). so to all the so called progressive "christians" who's liberal interpretations of the word will twist the Scriptures to mean what they want them to mean in the post modern world, you would have to really smear the facts in order to come up with the lie that homosexuality is not a sin mentioned in the Bible.
continued to Kybarsfang:
I can say that I love you as a fellow human, but need to say that the lifestyle you have chosen to live out is not God's best for you. I have included some more Scriptures to show you that Homosexuality as well as a number of other sins are not pleaseing to God. If we profess to be born again, and there is an evident desire to change and to repent, then that pleases God. Otherwise, we are in disobedience to our Lord and Savior. If we confess our sins, HE is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all unrigteousness. Once we chose to follow Christ and accept Him as Lord and Savior, we also choose to die to our flesh, our wills, and choose to pick up our cross daily and follow Christ.
Leviticus 18:22
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
The leviticus passage really leaves no room for interpretation does it?
1 Kings 14:24
24 There were even male shrine prostitutes in the land; the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New King James Version)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Footnotes:
a. 1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites
A proverbial term of reproach applied to those who practiced sodomy (ritual homosexuality) (Deuteronomy 23:17; 1 Kings 14:24;15:12;22:46; 2 Kings 23:7; Job)
And is applied to males (Deuteronomy 23:17)
Destroyed by fire as a judgement (Genesis 19:24,25)
Wickedness of (Genesis 19:4-14)
The word "harlot" ("shrine prostitute" (N. I. V.)) appears in (Genesis 38:21,22)
And is the translation of a Hebrew feminine form of the word translated elsewhere "sodomite" (Hosea 4:14)
To be judged according to opportunity (Matthew 11:24; Luke 10:12)
See SODOMY"
I've got to tell you bro, if this doesn't help, then you need to trully pray and seek God, because his Word is the measuring stick for our lives, and we as humans have a tendency within us to hear what we want, and to twist Scriptures to adapt to our culture, our surroundings, etc, when the Scriptures should not be adapting, but rather, they should be changing, our culture, and our surroundings; i.e not the culture change our biblical beliefs to fit with the current trends or opinions in the culture. Anything else is false doctrine, and will be condemned by God. I will be praying for your eyes to be opened to the absolute truth of the Word of God.
kybarsfang wrote:
"Also, the passage you chose from Romans seems to say that people are gay because they are evil, because they committed some heinous sin and turned away from God, so lusting after the same sex is their punishment. If that's true, I'd honestly like to know what I did that was so wicked and wrong before I hit the age of 10, because I was definitely aware of my feelings then, and for a couple years beforehand. "
I wanted to say, that I'm sorry that you have felt those feelings all your life, and we as Christians are trully called to love the sinner and hate the sin. It doesn't matter what your vice or inclination of the flesh is, the Bible teaches that there needs to be repentance. Maybe the Scripture in Romans didn't really open your eyes to the truth, or maybe you are misinterpretiung it in your mind, because it's possible that you still feel that living the homosexual lifestyle is not a sin. I can only tell you what the Word of God says, and it clearly is a dipleasing practice to the Lord. We are called to honor God with our Body's which if we are born again Christians, our body's are the temple of the Holy Spirit., and we were made to honor God with our body's.
I'm here to exhort you and lovingly tell you that even though you struggle with Homosexuality, God loves you and He sent His Son for you to give your life to, but He requires you to acknowledge that homosexuality, just like adultery, and fornication are not God's perfect ordained plan for mankind. He created one man and one woman Adam and Eve, and this is the natural order of things that God has established. Everthing that is sexual apart from a loving relationship between one man and one woman joined in holy matrimony before God and men is wrong and is against His perfect Will for our lives.
Again, I must ask why do some on this site continually rant and rave to protect the homosexual lifestyle, and yet openly proclaim to be Christians? Why is it that you cannot see that the Bible teaches to love homosexuals and all sinners, but yet hate the sin. That is what repentance and trully following Jesus Christ our Lord is all about. You cannot deny that the Bible teaches homosexuality is a sin, as is adultery, fornication, bestiality, pornography, lying, stealing, cheating, people divorcing one another (outside of the biblical definitions of lawful divorce which is adultery in a marriage). If we conservative born again Christians who want the Bible to remain true and pure as God intended it would allow the progressive/liberal/seeker-sensitive post modern Christians of today to have their way, then we would not only have a gay study bible, but one for pedophiles, and murderers, and fornicators, and people who have sex with animals. Where my dear friends do would we then draw the line with a moral relativistic stance on homosexuality? I will answer that question for you - the Word of God is the judging line, and if God calls it sin, it is sin. look at Leviticus, Romans, I Corinthians, etc. They all speak of it pretty clear, yet because some of you obviously have a pet peave with this issue, you continue to defend it even against the conscience God has given you.
The truth is truth in love - Love the sinner (we are all sinners; not one of us is sinless); hate the sin (if we are born again, we repent of sin, and turn our backs to it with the grace of God giving us the strength to do it) there must be repentance in order to be born again. Otherwise, we need to check and see if our commitment to Jesus was real.
Jester in the kings court: Amen and Amen brother. that is exactly my point!
What about people who are into incest? Who's to say that's wrong? I mean "They love each other!" How can love be wrong? Quote scripture, and sure enough, you can find someone arguing that you're misinterpreting it, or that's not what it really says.
give me enough time, I could justify murder too and make it sound like the Bible doesn't say its wrong. Next thing you know, you've got murderous, adulterers, drunkards, prostitutes, and so on claiming that they are going to heaven even though they don't want to leave their lifestyle. and they're gonna be so pissed when they don't. "But...but...this is the way i was created! If God didn't want me this way, why did he make me this way?" I'm sure that serial killers, child molesters, and rapists could say the same thing, but i dont see anyone holding their hand telling them it's okay. Where's the people standing up for their right to be who they are?
and yet God has the power to change the impotent and barren person into someone "fruitful" and has the power to change the gay/lesbian into a hetero....so what's your point?
Also, this struck a chord:
"
Anyway, like I said before... stick 1000 gay people on an island, and they would go extinct... not exactly natural."
Stick 1000 people of the same gender on an island and of course you won't have reproduction. Stick 500 impotent men and 500 barren women on that same island, and you'll get the same result. Are you saying it's against nature to be born impotent, or to become impotent?
Prophet:
"So you're saying it's okay to change what the Bible says to adapt to a person's will?"
What exactly does that mean, and what did I say that makes you think I said that?
Also, the passage you chose from Romans seems to say that people are gay because they are evil, because they committed some heinous sin and turned away from God, so lusting after the same sex is their punishment. If that's true, I'd honestly like to know what I did that was so wicked and wrong before I hit the age of 10, because I was definitely aware of my feelings then, and for a couple years beforehand.
kybarsfang..
So you're saying it's okay to change what the Bible says to adapt to a person's will?
"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: WHO CHANGED THE TRUTH OF GOD INTO A LIE, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." Romans 1:24-27
Now, they can change the Bible however they want...but it doesnt change the truth, and in the end, they will be judged by the Truth.
I mean, if they can do that, the I think I'll write my own Bible for the adulterers so that they don't feel so convicted and uncomfortable.
Whenever I see stuff like this, I always feel a need to bring up life in the 1950's. I can just imagine an article appearing in the local paper: "Black Study Bible stocked next to Christian Bible" or some sort. Outrage ensues. The bookstore that dares mix colored bibles with white folks' bibles is protested, maybe even attacked. And this behavior is acceptable. It's Christian. It's approved by God. Plain as day, anyone can see it if they just read the Bible.
Or let's go back even further, and out comes a Christian book that empowers women, treating them as equal as men. "Why do women need their own special Bible?" the men say. "They should be spending their time cookin' and cleanin', not readin'! David has many wives! Ruth didn't have many husbands!" or whatever was spouted out back then.
The point is, history repeats itself, and if you believe this instance with the dang queers is "different" and your hatred is justified because the Bible says so, you may want to look at what else the Bible supposedly justifies, and decide for yourself if you'll just take everything at face value, or if you love God enough and crave His Truth enough to do some research and ask Him to guide you toward the many possibilities that the Living Word has in store. Because of Him, you no longer have to kill your children for backtalking you. Because of Him, you can be a vegetarian without feeling guilty. Because og HIm, you can embrace the fact that you were born left-handed as a gift, and not a hell-given curse to overcome.
The Pharisees thought they knew the word of God, but Jesus showed them that it had been twisted by their own selfishness and arrogance. Whenever you decide to condemn someone based on what you think the Bible says, you may want to take a step back and see if you're approaching the situation with hate and arrogance, or if you can truly show humility and learn that there is more than one way to walk beside the Lord.
It's easy to condemn when you're not gay? yes, but I do have my own sinful habits that are just as bad. guess what...i condemn those sins as well. Because it's not about what I (my flesh) wants...its about changing who i am, so that I can stand in God's presence sinless. So don't say that I wouldn't condemn it if I were gay. because you don't know my sins and my convictions.
ifeelfine72: why is it that you always side with the self proclaimed atheists, the secualr progressives, the Darwinists, and everyone who is deadset against the Bible? WHy do ou continually rant and rave to protect the homosexual lifestyle, and yet openly proclaim to be a Christian? Why is it that you cannot see that the Bible teaches to love homosexuals and all sinners, but yet hate the sin. That is what repentance and trully following Jesus is all about. You cannot deny the Bible saying homosexuality is a sin, as is adultery, fornication, bestiality, pornography, lying, stealing, cheating, people divorcing one another (outside of the biblical definitions of lawful divorce which is adultery in a marriage). If we conservative Christians who want the Bible to remain true and pure as God intended it would allow the progressive/liberal/seeker-sensitive Christians of today to have their way, then we would not only have a gay study bible, but one for pedophiles, and murderers, and fornicators, and people who have sex with animals. Where my dear friend ifeefine do you draw the line with your moral relativistic stance on homosexuality? I will answer that question for you - the Word of God is the judging line, and if God calls it sin, it is sin. look at Leviticus, Romans, I Corinthians, etc. They all speak of it pretty clear, yet because you obviously have a pet peave with this issue, you continue to defend it even against the conscience God has given you.
The truth is truth in love - Love the sinner (we are all sinners; not one of us is sinless); hate the sin (if we are born again, we repent of sin, and turn our backs to it with the grace of God giving us the strength to do it) there must be repentance in order to be born again.
It's a sin. It's a sin. It's a sin. Get over it! Why do people seem to think they can change the Word of God to fit their lifestyle? You can't justify sin.
And that clergy list...let's take a look. If this were PCA or Southern Baptist, I'd be in shock, but I'm not shocked by that list.
UCOC and the Episcopals are people pleasing churches. They'd rather throw out scripture and please their congregation, than please God. They don't follow the Word. Episcopal churches are leaving the denomination because of scriptural differences, especially scripture pretaining to homosexuality. The UU's have no creed or doctrine. They'll believe anything. They're not exactly Christian, anyway. I can't speak for the Methodists, but one of the Presbyterian preachers is PC-USA. I don't know if the PC-USA knows what a bible is cause they don't follow it at all.
So homosexuality being a sin is not a homophobic interpretation. It's the right interpreation. It is what it is: Sin. It's old and new testament. To encourage it, enforce it, and bless it is sin. Desmond Tutu, on the other hand, is a well-educated, yet extremely misguided individual.
Whoever flagged me, by all means disagree... but do not hide behind it. At least come out and say, your comment was inappropriate so you were flagged...
Anyway, like I said before... stick 1000 gay people on an island, and they would go extinct... not exactly natural. I do not condemn gays, neither do I condone what they do either. Everyone has a choice and if your choice is to swing that way, then so be it... but we are not going to allow them to control our homes, schools and churches.
KevinVT - I've been saying the same thing . . . its easy to condemn gay people when you are not gay yourself.
The Bible is tons more specific about 100s of other topics. Jesus spoke about anger . . . yet, no one here seems concerned about that. Divorce is a much bigger problem for families than homosexuality.
"contrary to Christian beliefs? "
Contrary to your homophobic interpretation, but not to that of many, many other Christians. Including Desmond Tutu.
Look how many clergy signed in support of same sex marriage in Vermont, and that's just one small state!
http://www.vtfreetomarry.org/clergy.php#3
"Gay Study Bible"? Why would a Christian book store sell something that is contrary to Christian beliefs? These perverts can print anything they want, but don't expect it to be on a shelf next to a bible.
Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.
Matthew 22:29
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12
'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
Matthew 22:32
You are right any other document would be inaccurate after thousands of years, but this word is not dead but alive and our God is active in the lives of his church preserving his words of truth today just as he was in the hearts of the prophets and apostles when they wrote his words.
Hate to be dire but many people say we can't change the Bible but I would be willing to bet about 80 percent is incorrect. Documents can't even last 100 years with something being left out or added in or having a person change to what they want. I highly doubt that the Bible is 100 percent correct. Nothing in the Bible says homosexuality is wrong. They just didn't know anything about it and most often kept it a secret. Now that we are learning its a hormonal imbalance that will help us see that it's not homosexuals to blame, it's nature or for Christians GOD! God made them the way that they are just as he made mentally handicapped or kids with cancer. So would God damn a mentally handicapped person for being the way he is? I would sincerely hope not for all you believers faith.
Be them gay, lesbian, bi, transsexual. or whatever type of sexuality you are, I love you no matter what. Even if Christians want to put you down and act like there is no where to go for you except down you will still be heard. GAY RIGHTS! :)
So convenient to focus on sins that one has no inclination to commit.
he Bible contains 6 admonitions to homosexuals and 362 admonitions to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision.
"She not only forces a meaning to the word, but refuses to look at the word in the other parts of the New Testament and Old as well... incredible."
Wow -- you folks really don't know the text, do you?
The word "arsenokoites" does not appear anywhere else. It's a hapax. Look it up.
And the word "homosexuality" was not invented until 1869, so that one certainly isn't anywhere in the Bible. Christ himself had exactly nothing to say about homosexual behavior. Yes, it's in Leviticus, but right alongside prohibitions on eating shellfish and wearing mixed fabrics. Why are you folks so obsessed about homosexuality, anyway?
zenodaddy, i would also have to agree with you that it is the so called "christain brethren" who have been brain washed by the secular progressive agenda and moral relativism that has so saturated our world.
I am convinced Jesus will return soon for His Bride, and we are living in the end times brother, and make no mistake about it, the "emergent conversation", the "emergent church", the COEXIST Movement, and BOno from U2 along with the Rick Warrens of the world with their social gospel are creating a "bridge" between Christianity and Eaastern as well as Catholic Mysticism wich is really new age.
Read up more on the social liberalism of the emergent church, and the many seductive false doctrines such as contemplative prayer (which is really eastern mysticism), the bringing back of icons to "feel" God move in people's midsts, you can eve read up on Brian Mclaren's (The man who is credited to being the founder of this liberal church movement) view, as well as many of their leaders views on hell and homosexuality, and you will see they are totally extra biblical. you can find more info on this at www.understandthetimes.org, and www.apprising.org.
The emergent church preaches an extra biblical gospel that is more in line with the new age than it is with Sound Doctrine based Biblical Christianity. Many of them - to mention one - Tony Campolo recently told a young reader how to have a born again experience thru contemplative prayer! Imagine that, the Bible says there is only one way to God and that is Jesus Christ, and here is a so called evangelical preacher (not really evangelical even though he calls himself this) and he is teaching an eastern mystical practice taught in the Roman Catholic Church and the Jessuit Order. Now imagine that, he is adoptig practices from a church that teaches the deification of Mary as being co-redemptrix with Christ. This is heresy my brother, and we need to exhort others in love, and pray for their eyes to be quickly opened to this deception in the church; that they may see this for what it is, and that the Holy Spirit in mercy and grace may convict their hearts to repent and come back.
we can't let people do whatever they want. It leads to Sodom and Gommorah. Also, we should not tamper with the bible. We CANNOT reject what is canon. This new version is not a Bible. It is a sick fragment.
The "word" homosexuality isn't the issue here. It's the common sense, black and white scripture in Romans where Paul talks about men lying with men as they would woman, and vice versa. This woman claims the Bible is misinterpreted because of the lack of research and knowledge. God chooses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, not vice versa. Interpretation of the Bible comes through the Holy Spirit, not college seminars. It's one thing to occasionally sin out of habit, but it's another to accept a sinful lifestyle like homosexuality. This is another example of the Bible being MORE about us than it is God, which is what is happening in today's world. There is liberty in Christ, but those who endorse sins like homosexuality are not using their liberty; they're abusing it. There is a God that accepts homosexuality, but it's not the one, true God. It's a God that liberal man has created, and it's a God that's more concern with pleasing than being pleased. Liberals use the cross of Christ as a license to do whatever they please, and need to wake up before it's too late.
Jc4me,
'By the way, thanks to whoever is giving everything I say multiple thumbs down on. '
Most likely it is the bleeding heart libs on the site if I were to bet on it. I suspect they are jumping for joy that someone would come out with something like this. I find it amazing that the libs are doing their best to remove all traces of God, yet call foul when we attempt to keep their agenda out of the church.
The libs are all for one thing, and that is the utter destruction of morality in the world and I hate to say, they are doing a great job of it.
Desmond tutu is a bleeding heart liberal, and will say just about anything to please the secular progressives in our world. He does not follow the Word of God.
it appears now that there are "christians" on this post that would rather twist the Scriptures so they can pick and choose their own moral relativity of course. Having said that, many who have commented challenging the Word of God, who are claiming to be Christians need to take things up to God; don't blame me for quoting Scripture. I'm clearly quoting following the mandate of Christ, and His Apostles to stay in Sound Doctrine. If you still feel homosexuality is not a sin, and you call yourself a Christian, then take that up with God. You'd rather attack those who take God's Holy Word as literal rather than talking about what the Bible says about homosexuality being sin, and how many "christians" who are progressive/liberal/emergent in their thinking are the true twisters of the Word with their "seeker-friendly" agenda not meant to offend anyone, so certain parts of the Book they claim to be the "inspired Word" are conveniently left out of their pulpits, while the thousand who hear, don't get the whole counsel of God, and get a "watered-down gospel". It's ok, you can mock me, and all the other conservative, born again Christians, but Christ our Savior and Lord is watching, and it is to Him who you will have to give an account.
By the way, thanks to whoever is giving everything I say multiple thumbs down on. The Apostle Paul was also criticized and persecuted. It is possible that some of you liberal emergents out there are getting convicted of your views of Scripture by what many of the biblical purists on this site have to say. Have a nice day.
Nice, now the homosexual agenda is targeting study guides... what's next? The bible study guide for drug users, adulterers and crack addicts?
This women should be blacklisted until she repents and apologizes. This is just outrageous. She not only forces a meaning to the word, but refuses to look at the word in the other parts of the New Testament and Old as well... incredible.
To quote Desmond Tutu, "If God as they say is homophobic I wouldn't worship that God."
But obviously others disagree, and apparently pick and choose Bible verses to suit their needs.
Whatever sins we have, those are forgiven, when we come in repentence to the Lord! However, we cannot continue to live in that sin! Liars have to stop lying, thiefs stop stealing and homosexuals and adulterers, stop sexual immorality!
That is the truth of God's Word, God loves all but HE hates sin in anyone! The Wages of sin is still death! You cannot use GRACE as a license to keep on sinning! That makes Jesus death a mockery.
It is not judgement, it is called DISCERNMENT!!! ifeelfine72, God does not condone sin in anyone!
We hate what God hates and love what God loves.
God shows us in the old what happened to folks when they did sin, God laid down the law and the consequences of violating that law (hence Soddom/Gomorrah) the law leads us to Jesus Christ and repentence, the key word is repentence!!!!)
God took care of the salvation part, man must REPENT, meaning, turning away from the sin and toward the life in Jesus Christ.
We are indeed living in the end times, when man does NOT put up with sound doctrine and instead has raised up teachers who tell them what they want to hear and so they do listen to what The Holy Spirit of God is telling them.
God's WORD is HIS Word and we do not get to pick and choose the part we like and don't like!
For HIS Glory, it's about JESUS not about us!
jc4me: Amen! The Holy Spirit inspired men to write down the Word of God; and God is Holy and He is calling His children to be Holy. There is nothing Holy about sin; and God lists the abominations and for men to turn around and contradict God's Word; that is clearly the work of Satan in the latter days!
This causes me to really be more sober and more alert in my own walk with the Lord.
Jesus told us that in these days, these things would happen; new and different gospels are being slung about and these are NOT the Gospel of Jesus Christ!
This is all Prophesy being fulfilled in our time and I say: Glory be to the KING
As people get ready to celebrate Christmas, let me remind eveyone, He is not coming back as a baby - The KING is coming, this is the 2nd Advent!!!!
Praise God, we are going home!!!! Hallelujah!!! Lord God!!! JESUS IS LORD!!!
I suppose you're all fluent in NT Greek?
"arsenokoites" is a hapax, as far as I recall.
Unless you have friends who were alive and speaking Greek some two thousand years back you're relying on somebody's guess.
The question is: why would you prefer one guess to another?
Jc4me: I assume you are also aware of the prohibition in Leviticus against eating shellfish and wearing clothing weaved from multiple types of thread? And of course working on the Sabbath was enough to be put to death.
Leviticus was also used to justify keeping slaves:
20: 44-45 As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property.
And just what is a person worth?:
27: 2-7 Speak to the people of Israel and say to them: When a person makes an explicit vow to the LORD concerning the equivalent for a human being, the equivalent for a male shall be: from twenty to sixty years of age the equivalent shall be fifty shekels of silver by the sanctuary shekel. If the person is a female, the equivalent is thirty shekels. If the age is from five to twenty years of age, the equivalent is twenty shekels for a male and ten shekels for a female. If the age is from one month to five years, the equivalent for a male is five shekels of silver, and for a female the equivalent is three shekels of silver. And if the person is sixty years old or over, then the equivalent for a male is fifteen shekels, and for a female ten shekels.
And I hope you’re not slated for sacrifice:
27: 29-30 Nothing that a person owns that has been devoted to destruction for the LORD, be it human or animal, or inherited landholding, may be sold or redeemed; every devoted thing is most holy to the LORD. No human beings who have been devoted to destruction can be ransomed; they shall be put to death.
Yes, wouldn’t the world be a better place if we would all take the Old Testament as the literal word of God?
Why was Sodom and Gomorrah judged? And still is used today as examples of evil, and other evil environments are compared to it. When reading the account homosexuality was clearly involved. But thank God there is hope for all that still have breath,
Amen Gavulav. I couldn't have said it better myself.
Ms Nyland is definitely playing devil's advocate here. She must know in her heart that her defence of her interpretation of that bible verse is hollow and that she is merely knit-picking in an attempt to advance the devil's agenda by attacking the Word of God. The devil is getting desperate and showing his hand in many ways in these last days. The creature knows its days are numbered and it's out to deceive the very elect.
Let us make sure that this Ms Nyland's translation is exposed for its error and deception.
Continued:
The Bible nowhere exhorts us to be complacent in our Christianity; nor does it exhort us to accept Christ in a prayer one day, and then just live to please the flesh, anfd then rationalize like the gnostics did in the first century church - "after all, there is the love and grace of God; He understands, I can sin today, and just ask for foirgiveness tomorrow." This is illogical, and contrary to the Word of God. Some on this site, because of whatever reason have chosen to be more flax on homosexuality, and have gone as far as to say they are not sure it is a sin. Well, biblically speaking it is a sin, and if God says it's sin, who am I to say otherwise? My problem with some on this site is that they try to rationalize (water down) sin, or they misinterpret the Bible to adapt to a personal sin, or someone they love who is dealing with something that is a sin, so what do they do? rather than admitting that the sin is sin, and just confessing it to God as sin, and asking God to remove the "fleshly lust" or watever other sin from their lives, they refuse to acknowledge it as sin, and further, will mock, or antagonize those of us who rather follow the whole counsel of God.
We are commanded to love homosexuals, as well as adulterers, fornicators, liars, etc; we are called to love all our enemies, but we are called to hate sin. Therefore, let the truth be told in love, but nevertheless, the truth - we love the sinner, but cannot condone the sin. we cannot and should not as born again believers water down sin. This is the problem with the modern day church - they water down Scripture to suit the itching ears of those who are listening rather than just teach the Word of God and let the Holy Spirit convict their hearts unto repentance and following Christ out of a pure heart.
ifeelfine: For you to doubt that there are extreme left-wing progressive/liberal judges that are making laws, rather than interpreting laws and that there is a mass homosexual lobbying effort to push this on kids in school with books that teach it's ok to have a mommy and a mommy in the home is to be living in la-la land. There is nothing unloving in what I said. it is the plain truth, and it would be unloving to let others know what is really going on.
I wanted to say to the rest on this post, that may have read some of my previous posts and thought they may have been rather cut and dry - well, I must say the Bible is the absolute truth of God. If everything else in this confused and twisted world doesn't make sense, then that is why we have the Bible. The Bible teaches us that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Therefore, the fornicator, the adulterer, the thief, the pedophile, the pornographer, the bisexual, transexual, homosexual, liar, etc all have sinned. We all need a Savior, and it doesn't matter the sin, all it takes is one sin to be seperated from God. This is why we must all come to repentance; whatever the vice is. We all suffer from one common thing, and that is a fallen sinful nature. I have never said that homosexuality is the unforgivable sin; however, I have always said that just like the adulterer, the homosexual needs to acknowledge that his/her desires are contrary to the natural uses God made us humans to be, and come to grips with his/her fleshly desire that is contrary to God, and repent if he/she wants to be born again. You cannot be born again and be openly practicing the homosexual lifestyle, because it would contradict the new life that we have in Christ. Please don't misinterpret me, this is not to mean that a person who has come out of that lifestyle who just gave their life to Christ will not struggle with this sin, but if they are born again, they will willfully acknowledge their temptations, their weaknesses, and their struggles, and go back to God with them, confess them to Him, and ask Him to grant more Grace for them to turn their backs on the sin, and to pick up their crosses daily and follow Christ.
jc4me - "Liberal judges and the homosexual mafia lobby" - that sounds real loving! Care to explain yourself? You expose yourself for what you are! Hypocrite. No wonder why gay people run the other way from the church in droves. Its directly because of people like you.
Based on the way his flock treats them, gays are definitely the least of Christ's people and when you die, you can answer to Him!
Maybe other Scriptures from the same Bible the scholar and I study from will help alleviate any confusion that she may have on whether homosexuality is a sin:
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New King James Version)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Footnotes:
a. 1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites
1 Kings 14:24
24 There were even male shrine prostitutes in the land; the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.
Leviticus 18:22
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
The leviticus passage really leaves no room for interpretation does it?
A proverbial term of reproach applied to those who practiced sodomy (ritual homosexuality) (Deuteronomy 23:17; 1 Kings 14:24;15:12;22:46; 2 Kings 23:7; Job)
And is applied to males (Deuteronomy 23:17)
Destroyed by fire as a judgement (Genesis 19:24,25)
Wickedness of (Genesis 19:4-14)
The word "harlot" ("shrine prostitute" (N. I. V.)) appears in (Genesis 38:21,22)
And is the translation of a Hebrew feminine form of the word translated elsewhere "sodomite" (Hosea 4:14)
To be judged according to opportunity (Matthew 11:24; Luke 10:12)
See SODOMY"
I suppose the adultery, harlotry, homosexuality, and bestiality mentioned in Scripture is just meant for that culture during that time, no? NOT; these have been and conitnue to be detestable in the eyes of God even though moral relativists will tell you otherwise. Sorry Mrs. Ann Nyland, your explanation did not convince me that the Bible should not be taken literally, and it seems your interpretaion is the one twisted.
man, i tell you we're living in the latter part of the end times when you have a so-called "Bible Scholar" who says that there should be a gay study bible....I say NOT.
great explanation tuprbabe. I think you should visit the article: "Philadelphia Sets Deadline for Boy Scouts to Renounce Anti-Gay Policy" this of course is occuring thanks to the liberal judges and the homosexual mafia lobby trying to make them accept their lifestyle. You should see some of the post moderns what they have to say. some of their interpretations of scripture are more moral relativism in nature than biblical Cristianity.
You'd better boycott any bible-study aimed at wealthy people as well, seeing as Christ taught wealth was a sin.
Oh heaven forbid that we let some scholar reinterpret the Bible. Clearly the people hired by King James knew more about Greek than someone who has spent her life studying it. And obviously it goes against the word of God (the King James version of it anyway), so it must be wrong. Seems like a circular argument, but don’t worry, I’m sure you’ll see the streets of gold.
OK, so let me get this straight. The gay man who plays the "woman" in the relationship would not be homosexual, it's the gay man who plays the "man" who is homosexual because he penetrates the other man's anus?
<scratching head ...>
I'm no "classical Greek lexicographer" like Ms. Nyland, but I do know how to look up the roots of words. "Arsenokoites" is a compound word, made from the combination of "Arsen" (male) and "Koites" (sexual union - where we get the word 'coitus').
In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, it can't mean female fornicators ("Pornos") or adulterers ("Moichos"), since they are different words altogether, and Paul already named those two groups as not inheriting the kingdom of God anyway. The only people left to have sex with men, then, would be other men ... so silly me, I guess that men having sex with other men are homosexual. Now why didn't I think of that?
The Bible has NEVER condoned sin and a "study bible for gays" would not follow principals as far as I can see. It is good to read that Christian bookstores are refusing to lower their standards. Too many times Christians have let sin creep into their homes and churches... Remember Satan will fool "the very elect" if possible. Christians must remain on guard and read the TRUE BIBLE...GOD'S WORD!
BTW Ann Nyland,
Rom 1:26-27 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. (NIV)
I think this is pretty self explanatory but let me clear it for you. Male + female = natural relations, female + female = unatural relations, male + male = indecent acts and an abandonment of natural relations.
God sees sin as sin. Doen't make any difference what it is. God is righteousness and ANY sin is unrighteousness. Our sin and unrighteousness must be covered by the righteousness of Christ and that can only be done through repentance, not acceptance.
Perhaps Nyland should research the word Malakos (found just before “arsenokoites” in 1 Cor. 6:9) in her "classical Greek lexicographer".
(3120) Malakos: effeminate
1. of a catamite
2. of a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man
3. of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness
4. of a male prostitute
And no, it wasn't talking only about lewdness and male prostitution, that was taken care of even earlier in verse 9 with the word "Pornos".
Using the definition she wants, still blatantly points to homosexuality in males.
Come on Ann, let's read the "entire" Bible, not just the words you want to use.
all I can say is AMEN!!!! this is another step of the "Christian" left trying to tell us that Homosexuality is ok. I am not saying that homosexuality is more of a sin than another but you dont see people changing God's word saying that adultry is ok
God Bless,
Anthony
www.bellybutton88.blogspot.com
"Moreover, Australia’s largest Christian retailer, Koorong, said it is unlikely to carry Ann Nyland’s Study New Testament for Gay, Lesbian, Bi, and Transgender if the version proves controversial."
IF?