Christian Bookstores Refuse to Sell Gay Study Bible

By Ethan Cole|Christian Post Reporter

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Conservative Christian bookstores are refusing to sell copies of a new Bible study guide that challenges standard New Testament translations that teach gay sex is sin.

U.S. distributor God’s Word to Women has banned the Australian publication and withdrawn another Bible translation by the same publishing company, Smith and Stirling, for promoting a lifestyle contradictory to scriptures, according to the Australian newspaper The Age.

Moreover, Australia’s largest Christian retailer, Koorong, said it is unlikely to carry Ann Nyland’s Study New Testament for Gay, Lesbian, Bi, and Transgender if the version proves controversial.

In the study guide, Nyland contends that the word “arsenokoites” has been wrongly interpreted to mean homosexual. According to the classical Greek lexicographer, the word’s meaning is one who anally penetrates another and does not exclusively apply to males, according to The Age.

She further claims that most New Testament translations are based on a lack of understanding of Greek word meaning, context, and disregard for academic research.

Because of Nyland’s authorship of the gay study Bible, two American scholars have withdrawn their endorsements from her other works.

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jesusfreakgal »

Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:28 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

Ingoditrust this is not against you what i have to say is for every christian. God's says he will forgive that you r right ,it also says that homosexuality is wrong.You cannot live in sin knowly and get to heaven,you have to get away from it,stay away from it ask gods forginess, recieve god completely and then your sins r washed away,and ur free
God-Sent »

Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:25 am Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
God-Sent »

Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:24 am Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

It is sad how the world is falling apart while the professing carriers of Truth do not know what they believe and argue amongst themselves. Lucifer has really been hitting hard.
YetAnotherTeenageTragedy »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:42 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 3

The Bible wasn't written by God nor was it written by Jesus. The bible was written by men. It has it's strengths and it's discrepancies. You should take in with a grain of salt. In addition, there are thousands of ways to interpret the bible.
Homosexuality to me is not a sin.
jesus4me »

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:50 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Oh, and ingoditrust, it's not jcpg4; it was jc4me, and now is jesus4me. Thanks!
jesus4me »

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:49 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

continued to ingoditrust:

I've got to tell you bro, if this doesn't help, then you need to truly pray and seek God, because his Word is the measuring stick for our lives, if we cal ourselves Christians and we as humans have a tendency within us to hear what we want, and to twist Scriptures to adapt to our culture, our surroundings, etc, when the Scriptures should not be adapting, but rather, they should be changing, our culture, and our surroundings; i.e. not the culture change our biblical beliefs to fit with the current trends or opinions in the culture. Anything else is false doctrine, and will be condemned by God. I will be praying for your eyes to be opened to the absolute truth of the Word of God.
jesus4me »

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:49 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

ingoditrust:

you are catholic, and i assume you do read the scriptures right? I will say this as lovingly and as close to the Scriptural context as possible.

I can say that as a Christian, I am commanded to love the sinner and hate the sin. We are commanded in Scripture to love what God loves, and hate what God hates. I can choose to show love to homosexuals, adulterers, fornicators, drunkards, etc.. as a fellow human, but need to say that the lifestyle that some people choose to live out is not God's best for them. I have included some more Scriptures to show you that Homosexuality as well as a number of other sins is not pleasing to God. If we profess to be born again, and there is an evident desire to change and to repent, then that pleases God. Otherwise, we are in disobedience to our Lord and Savior. If we confess our sins, HE is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness. Once we chose to follow Christ and accept Him as Lord and Savior, we also choose to die to our flesh, our wills, and choose to pick up our cross daily and follow Christ.

Leviticus 18:22
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

The leviticus passage really leaves no room for interpretation does it?

1 Kings 14:24

24 There were even male shrine prostitutes in the land; the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New King James Version)

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Footnotes:

a. 1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites

A proverbial term of reproach applied to those who practiced sodomy (ritual homosexuality) (Deuteronomy 23:17; 1 Kings 14:24;15:12;22:46; 2 Kings 23:7; Job)
And is applied to males (Deuteronomy 23:17)
Destroyed by fire as a judgement (Genesis 19:24,25)
Wickedness of (Genesis 19:4-14)
The word "harlot" ("shrine prostitute" (N. I. V.)) appears in (Genesis 38:21,22)
And is the translation of a Hebrew feminine form of the word translated elsewhere "sodomite" (Hosea 4:14)
To be judged according to opportunity (Matthew 11:24; Luke 10:12)
See SODOMY"
Ingoditrust »

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:37 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Oh yes, and I have an explanation for your poll. First of all, American atheists are raising their children to be much more radical, second, there was a huge islamic boom in the lapse of the two poles, third, sheesh they are interviewing people outside the church that are under the influence of new drugs, new products, and new propaganda.
Ingoditrust »

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:33 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

Alright guys, I am Catholic so if you ask me: Is homosexuality the best thing in the world? I am gonna say "No" But homosexuality itself is no sin, acting and loving (bodily) under the veil of homosexuality is the sin. Jcpg4 or whatever the heck your name is, you clearly have the misconception that many radical fundamentalist Christians have. Two men can love each other with all their heart and make something beatiful out of their love. They can also do something evil and impure with it. One does not decide what one is, one decides what one becomes. Please remember that and do not post rash or unkind statements targetting people that are posting. This is a site for well-thought out statements and cool tempers, not for hurtful comments. And you are not the only one, please do not think I am targeting just you. Yours was just the last post I saw.
TokenSP »

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:41 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

Its sad when an organization has a civil war amongst themselves. Fundamentalists and liberal Christians are fighting eachother over what they believe to be right. What Fundamentalists dont realize is that by picking such an extreme side to follow the bible literally and condeming people who dont follow suit is giving you guys a horrible reputation. Heres a research site conducted by a Christian Group

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdateNarrow&BarnaUpdateID=280.

Give it a look tell me what you think.
jc4me »

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:42 am Agree: 3 Disagree: 1

By the way ifeelfine, the times I did commit heterosexual fornication prior to me marrying my wife, i had to choose to repent and turn from that sin. I confessed that to the Lord Jesus Christ, and He was faithful and just to forgive me of my unrighteousness. I did not just continually live in a state of sex outside of wedlock and just rationalize that because I was in love, or whatever, that God would somehow change His eternal Word and stance on the issue, and somehow cut me a break. No, I had to repent, and today, I am happily married with the woman I love and God forgave me for my pat when I was single and not liveing exactly for the Lord.
jc4me »

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:39 am Agree: 4 Disagree: 2

ifeelfine72 wrote:

"jc4me - pardon me for speaking for kybarsfang but he didn't "choose" that lifestyle anymore than you chose heterosexuality (assuming you are heterosexual). It is the way God made him.

And I feel that you will be in for a big surprise when you stand before God and he asks you why you treated the "least of his people" this way."

Ifeelfine, I am heterosexual and male. I chose to marry the woman God put in my life and I chose not to live in adultery, homosexuality, or fornication which are all sins. By the way, i haven't treated you or any other homosexuality without respect and dignity, but you want me to agree with you on that God created you and kybarsfang in that way, and that statement my friend is incorrect. God did not create me to fornicate or to adulterate, but to glorify Him with my body. Therefore, I would have to say, biblically speaking, God did not make you homosexual; rather, that is your choice to live that way. God put a conscience in you that will tell you when you are in error, now if you continue to harden your heart you can eventually sear your conscience. You can argue all you want, but there is nothing in Scripture to back up a homosexual practicing homosexuality, and still be a born again believer. I'm sorry, but if you have issue with that, then you can take it up with God. I will not agree with you promoting homosexuality, telling people that God made them that way, so you can justify your stance, and then twist the Scriptures while you're at it. It's just not gonna happen, I will not agree with you, because homosexuality is a sin, as well as every other sexual sin.
Tom »

Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:19 am Agree: 2 Disagree: 2

kevinVT You humor me so-----Yes how did John fail? because he walk into a bar filled with gays and even if he did did he stay there? No I think he repent publicly and went about his live as a forgiven believer in Jesus Christ. Open your mind Kevin to the truth. open your heart you the reality of Jesus Christ and what He has done for you. The facts are there thousand have left your lifestyle, thousands, some have fallen away some have slipped and fell (John P) many many others are walking this Christian walk knowing that Jesus has forgiven them and that they are free from the clutches that sins, like homosexuality had on them. Jesus said if you sin you are a slave to sin, Who is your master sir. Jesus also said I came to set the captive free. Are you free from the evil one, or does he keep playing you like a puppet like he does all who are a slave to him. Jesus said you are either for me or against me. Which are you Kevin, ifeelfine, torus, feet, Tom, GMG, JC4me, Jester are ya for Him who saves or against Him. If you are for Him, " He says sin no more" He says if you love Me(Jesus) then follow my(Jesus) teachings. He is waiting for you that have walked away from the faith to come back to His truth. He is waiting for you who have not accepted Him as Lord. you will one day, will it be to late? I don't know it is up to you. We will be praying for you
Gods Blessing
In Christ
Tom
KevinVT »

Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:46 am Agree: 1 Disagree: 1

Heads in the sand. Just keep them there.
There are not thousands and thousands of success stories for NARTH. Quite the contrary. A very few, and even those are probably people who weren't really gay to begin with. Even the leaders of many of these ex-gay organizations have backslid. John Paulk, anyone? Posterboy.

And for the record, I am not closed minded, I just look at the facts, as in scientific facts, the verifiable ones, as opposed to the ravings and imagination of NARTH crazies.

Enjoy your closed-mindedness, I'm off on vacation from insanity.
jester_in_the_Kings_court »

Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:40 pm Agree: 3 Disagree: 0

forgive me Tom. i put the wrong name on that post. i am sorry.
Tom »

Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:38 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

Ah Jester this may be a dumb question but are you answering my post or someone elses? I'm thinking something got lost in translation here. I serve the same God or at least I thought I did.
Gods blessing on you and yours
In Christ
Tom
Tom »

Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:45 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 1

Kevin and ifeelfine and the rest of you arguing for homosexuality are you all are the close minded individuals I have ever seen. In spite of all the evidence you still deny what research and personal testimony and what the word of God himself says. Man you all are so hard heart I pray God will often it and give you just a touch of what he has in store for you if you submit to Him. The only ones I know that says Narth is discredit are the ones who have the same world view as the rest of you. Once again explore their site and notice there has been a study that just came out. Which claims a roughly 30% success rate for those who have seen the Light and wish to leave the lifestyle you advocate. It called "Ex-Gays a longitudinal study of Religiously mediated change in sexual orientation" go ahead give it a look see. Also as GMG says what about the thousands and thousands of ex-gays that have left you lifestyle and now live lives of freedom from the homosexual bondage. How do you answer that sirs?
Were praying for ya. Gods Blessing on you and yours
In Christ
Tom
GMG »

Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:07 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 0

KevinVT - you said "NARTH is a totally discredited organization. Even they no longer claim people can change their orientation. People can change their _behavior_ -- but not their desire. There are no success stories, though there are many many people who are ex-ex-gays. I would even go so far to say that NARTH and its ilk are themselves objectively evil since they harm people and cause serious psychological damage and trauma."

Okay, apply this to alcoholics, people addicted to poronography, anger issues, gambling, the list goes on and on. Because they can not change their desire, only their behavior, should we tell them to give it up? Should we then pat them on the back and say it's okay, we understand they were made that way so they shouldn't even try to change what "can't be changed", because after all it could be so psychologically damaging and cause so much trauma.

There are many who have successfully made this lifestyle change, and I do not think they would appreciate being told they are not a success story. Go ask Joe Dallas at joedallas.com what he thinks, he thinks he's a successful ex-homosexual.
jester_in_the_Kings_court »

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:04 pm Agree: 4 Disagree: 0

" would think that we as Christians should always be searching for the truth - not just what is comfortable for us. It took me a long time to accept that homosexuality the way we know it now (loving relationships, etc) is not sinful."

You know what's comfortable to me? Lust. Fornication. Lying. But I have searched the Truth and found that it is not comfortable, because it says to not lust, fornicate, lie, steal, etc, etc. I could probably distort and twist scripture enough to make it okay in my eyes, pretty much the way you approach homosexuality. You talk about being comfortable in our judgement of homosexuals, but yet you say nothing about the homosexuals being comfortable in sin. I am being no more judgemental than the homosexual is sinning.
jc4me »

Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:33 pm Agree: 4 Disagree: 0

ifeelfine wrote:

"Tom - I think you need to read the evidence. Overwhelmingly psychologists don't think you can change your sexual orientation without some major consequences..."

So you take human wisdom and classify it higher that God's Wisdom the Bible?

ifeelfine also wrote:

"I would think that we as Christians should always be searching for the truth - not just what is comfortable for us. It took me a long time to accept that homosexuality the way we know it now (loving relationships, etc) is not sinful."

What do you do with the Book of Leviticus, Romans, and I Corinthians which obviously and clearly deal with the issue. Sounds to me that the one uncomfortable accepting God's Inspired Word of Truth is you and you seem to twist it in a way that goes in line with your line of thinking, but be not mistaken ifeelfine, God's Word never changes despite the post modern/liberal.progressive/emergent false gospels with the added post modern concepts, definitions,additions, and ommissions to God's Word written over 2000 years ago.

think again ifeelfine, you are the one who is uncomfortable with the Word of God, and as such you consistently twist it to justify your contemporary interpretation to a sexual sin called homosexuality.
KevinVT »

Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:19 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 1

NARTH is a totally discredited organization. Even they no longer claim people can change their orientation. People can change their _behavior_ -- but not their desire. There are no success stories, though there are many many people who are ex-ex-gays. I would even go so far to say that NARTH and its ilk are themselves objectively evil since they harm people and cause serious psychological damage and trauma.

The founder of NARTH, Charles Socarides, once claimed that homosexuality was caused by an unhealthy family. Then his son grew up to be gay. So either he was wrong, or he was a bad parent, or perhaps both (no doubt his son was traumatized by his professionally homophobic father).

To quote the wikipedia article on him, "The modern medical and scientific consensus is that attempts at eliminating same-sex attractions are not effective and are potentially harmful."
GMG »

Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:59 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

That's okay Tom, I like you fine when you're crabby!!

God Bless You
Tom »

Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:06 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 1

ifeelfine you make me snicker Narth has a agenda and you don't. You know what their agenda is the truth which so far appears to be something you don't much care about. Let me ask you something feelfine do you stand up for anything that God and His word says or do you just decide that you don't want to believe something because it is to hard or might hurt someones feelings no matter if it is the truth or not. I think you do. If I sound a little hard I am sorry but you remind of so many watered down Christians that wouldn't stand for the truth if God came knocking on your door and told you to. You all amaze me to no end and you call us ignorant I think the shoe fits better on you then it does for us who believe what God says in His word. Okay so I am crabby but some times ya just gotta let loose. We'll be praying for ya ifeelfine.
Gods Blessing
In Christ
Tom
ifeelfine72 »

Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:30 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 1

Tom - I think you need to read the evidence. Overwhelmingly psychologists don't think you can change your sexual orientation without some major consequences. I've checked out narth - they clearly have an agenda and aren't interested in the truth. I would think that we as Christians should always be searching for the truth - not just what is comfortable for us. It took me a long time to accept that homosexuality the way we know it now (loving relationships, etc) is not sinful.
Tom »

Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:49 am Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

SO you have not read of the many many theologians who would dispute you and have for over 2000 years. Have you tried looking at the Narth web site. Do you know the new study that has come out that show that people can change? I would guess not. You just seem to lean on your own understanding and not learned from them who have been studing scrpiture since the beginning. Is it hate to to stand up for what scripture says? to stand up for what is Gods precepts? Is it hate to want to show those who are walking in sin that it will lead to death if they don't repent and turn from their sin and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Or is it hate to just let them die in their sins without knowing and end up in the lake of fire. God Blessing on you and yours
In Christ
Tom
KevinVT »

Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:50 am Agree: 1 Disagree: 1

When you say "we are all born with the ability to hate" that is made eminently clear by this board. A very Christian virtue, apparently.

For those into etymology and jumping to conclusions, check the etymology of cretin. Reading these comments, it seems logical to me.
KevinVT »

Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:48 am Agree: 2 Disagree: 1

No legitimate psychologist believes that gay men and lesbians can change their orientation.

Not that this has anything to do with the text, which you people THINK you understand, but you don't actually know ancient languages and societies, do you? It's YOU who are modernizing and twisting the text out of context, not Prof. Nyland.
Tom »

Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:15 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 1

you see ifeelfine that is where you are wrong--They are not born that way, read the evidence sir, take a look at the differant web sites that have been brought up in this web site. Look at the evidence it isn't there, also if you would care to look there is amble evidence that an indivual can change ones sexual orientation. But even if it they were born that way it is still sin just as the Bible says. I find it laughable that all of a sudden after 6000 years in the OT and 2000 years in the NT soembody came up with the secrett message concerning this particularr sin. And even it they were born that way it would still be a sin. We all are born with the ability to kill to hate to do wrong and according to the Bible it is still a sin to do so or have you found a different meaning for that also.
Gods Blessing on you and yours
In Christ
Tom
ifeelfine72 »

Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:55 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

jc4me - pardon me for speaking for kybarsfang but he didn't "choose" that lifestyle anymore than you chose heterosexuality (assuming you are heterosexual). It is the way God made him.

And I feel that you will be in for a big surprise when you stand before God and he asks you why you treated the "least of his people" this way.
jc4me »

Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:14 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

Tom, i agree with you. This so called scholar has taken 2000 years of Scriptural content, and now wants to spin it from a post modern viewpoint to satisfy the ever increasing group of persons who have chosen the homosexual lifestyle, so in order to reach them and not step on toes, she has conveniently liberalized certain Greek words that have historically meant homosexuality, but according to her "new: interpretation they ms something else. She is the one who is twisting the Scriptures, and ifeelfine is just trying to have his ears tickled by this teacherso he can justify his sins, or his friends sins. I have no idea if he is gay or not, but he sure loves defending the gay lifestyle as being ok and not sinful.

Now kybarsfang on the other hand has explained that he is homosexual, and although I totally disagree with the lifestyle he has chosen, and have exhorted him in the Word to repent, he at least wants to hear the truth, or at least it seems that way. I have tried further reaching out to him with the Word, but he too has an extremely liberal/post modern interpretation of what homosexuality is and what it means.

I fear that many in today's church who call themselves born again and choose to accept homosexuality as a normal lifestyle wil have a rude awakening when they stand before God with the people who chose adultery, fornication, bestiality, and all other sexual abherrations. I have been on this site for the past month exposing the truth on this article, and others, and I have been exhorting others to stay in Sound Biblical Doctrine, but I am not the Holy Spirit. I have done my part, and wil continue to do so, but I cannot interfere in their willful adherence to the error they have chosen. Therefore, if they have chosen a lifestyle that is clearly against the BIble, and continue in their sins, then all I can say is, they will answer to God for wanting to water down the Scriptures and endorse the watering down of the Scriptures.
jc4me »

Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:59 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

kybarsfang wrote:

"That's a pretty cool quote, jc4me, but I'm not too sure if it's a response to me or a random posting or what your purpose is with it. I have an idea, but I'd like to hear from you."

What quote are you referring to. I was speaking to you about how the Word of God says homosexuality is a sexual sin just like all the other sins I mentioned, then Kevin VT said that what we (conservative Bible believeing Christians) consider holy, he considers blaphemous, but i'm confused as to what quote you're talking about. Is it the one right below ifeefine when he went bulistic on everyone of us conservative Christians?

Is it one that may have gotten flagged by someone who didn't like me saying homosexuality is a sin? I don't know. I saw that there was an awful lot of flagging on, and i just came back to the site today, so i don't know. let me know what you're referring to.
ifeelfine72 »

Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:17 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 1

Tom, If you read the story then you would know that what they are saying is that the Bible hasn't said that for 2000 years. It was translated improperly. That is what the story is saying. It's obvious you don't think it was. I'm not an expert on ancient Greek and ancient Hebrew but I'll trust the experts and she clearly is one. Cheers!
Tom »

Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:19 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

It is interesting that after some 2000 years of Christianity and some 6000 years of the Jewish religion, which taught that homosexaultiy is a sin, (along with many other sins) Ifeelfine and some of his friends he has found have now found a new meaning for what the plain words of the Bible says. They seem to have twisted the scripture to justify the sins they want to condone instead of trying to help them who are involved in it to escape it's unrighteous clutches. Man Sodom and Gomorrah should be screaming out for justice to be done. That's about what i said.
Gods Blessing
In Christ
Tom
KevinVT »

Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:57 am Agree: 4 Disagree: 2

Good way to avoid hearing a truth you don't want to hear. Go ahead: don't buy the book, don't listen to scholars who know what they're talking about.

Signing off!
kybarsfang »

Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:38 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Yeah, it looks like most of them were myself and KevinT. Oh, well. I tried to help. Have a good day, all!
jester_in_the_Kings_court »

Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:56 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

looks like they flagged everyone
GMG »

Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:40 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Yeah Jester, wish someone would tell us what all the excitement was about. And Tom is never offensive, though he occasionally can speak with double exclamation points when he gets "crabby" (his description, not mine)!
jester_in_the_Kings_court »

Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:27 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

geez...i can't leave for a few hours and all hades breaks loose! what's up with that?
GMG »

Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:09 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Hey, what is everyone getting flagged for. And who on earth flagged Tom - I can't believe he said anything worth flagging.
kybarsfang »

Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:01 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

That's a pretty cool quote, jc4me, but I'm not too sure if it's a response to me or a random posting or what your purpose is with it. I have an idea, but I'd like to hear from you.

ifeelfine: Thanks for the concern. I appreciate it. I see what you see here, but I still wanted to try. Truth above all and all that jazz.
jc4me »

Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:33 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 0

Peter 4
1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us[a] in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. 3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime[b] in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. 4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. 5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
ifeelfine72 »

Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:49 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 3

kybarsfang - You are definitely beating your head against a brick wall. jc4me, et al aren't interested in your point of view unless they can twist it. They talk out of both sides of their mouths. They talk about God's love (the tantamount of scripture) out of one side and spew venomous hate out of the other side when it comes to homosexuality.

There are more than 3000 translations of the Bible in English alone. jc4me, which one is the true Word of God? And forgive me for being contrary but you are lumping in all gay people with NAMBLA. jc4me - do you bomb abortion clinics? I have to lump you in with those conservative Christians. Not all conservative Christians bomb abortion clinics but everyone who bombs an abortion clinic is a conservative Christian. It would be "intellectually dishonest" of me not to mention that.
jc4me »

Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:18 am Agree: 4 Disagree: 0

Kybarsfang, I would also like for you to explain if God initially wanted homosexuality to be a part of His overall plan, then why would HE create Adam and Eve, and not Adam ad Steve. God Created man with a penis, and woman with a vagina for enjoyment and procreating, but wen you consider what homosexual sex endorses, it is totally sick. There is nothing holy about anal and oral sex between two consenting homosexual males, and oral sex along with strap on devices for homosexual female couples, then why would God endorse homosexuality? And, just for the record, hermaphrodites are not born homosexuals, they just happen to have an abnormality in their body, which is totally different to lets say you having an unatural inclination as a male to have sex with another male, and wating to rewrite Scripture to adapt to your inclination/sin nature.
jc4me »

Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:10 am Agree: 3 Disagree: 0

Continued to Kybarsfang:

Let me make it clear once more and very clear, I do not believe that anyone should be rewriting the Bible to suit to anyone’s sins. I again was making a comparison of how foolish it is when people think homosexual behavior can't be proven biblically, and if that becomes common ground for people to believe, then might as well include all the other sinners with a seeker sensitive translation. Do you get my point now? I still think homosexuality as well as all those other sins and the many more written in Scriptures are sin, but when people like Kevin VT say homosexuality is nowhere to be found in the Bible, it is a lie on his part, and he is being extremely intellectually dishonest.

By the way kybarsfang, i did not and will not say that all people with a homosexual tendency are pedophiles or people who have sex with animals. However, i will say that most if not all in NAMBLA are homosexuals and they are pedophiles, so to negate the fact that they have a huge part in promoting homosexuality and the connection between some homosexuals and pedophilia would be intellectually ignorant, as well as misleading on my part. I did not mean to lump you in with NAMBLA; nor do I think you are a pedophile for being homosexual. I am glad that you find them a detestable organization as do I, but I still think you need to seriously consider the Bible when it shows homosexuality as a clear sin just like adultery, fornication, etc.

I also would like to know what your views on GLSTN are, and what they are doing in the public schools with our tax payer dollars.
jc4me »

Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:07 am Agree: 2 Disagree: 1

kybarsfang wrote:

"And for you and the others on here who say that the bible can be rewritten to "be sensitive to the murderer, the fornicator, the wife beater, the serial killer and the adulterer as well," I challenge you to do so. Show that there are passages in the bible, based on the original text and that context of that text, that promotes those things as being okay. I've heard each of those groups justifying themselves with the Bible, but so far I haven't seen a study or report yet that says that the original text does not implicate those groups. Until you can bring forth the same points I'm trying to bring up, about misinterpretation in today's doctrine, how can you lump homosexuality with those sins? "

I am not endorsing rewriting the Bible to be sensitive to muderers, and serial killers, and adulterers, liars, and what not. My premise is that if the Bible, the clear and concise Word of God teaches that all these sins including HOMOSEXUALITY is a sin, then the people who condone homosexal behavior by rewriting the Bible and endorse the rewriting of Scripture really have not leg to stand on. In other words, if you are going to accept rewriting the Word (which I am strictly against), then you would also have to lump up all those other sins the Bible clearly shows as sins and rewrite it from a post modern perspective for those who feel the same way you do about homosexuality. I was just trying to make a point and was being sarcastic about it to point the futility in the argument by many secualar progressives, as well as many who call themselves Christians and are clearly endorsing this lady in doing what she is doing.
kybarsfang »

Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:31 am Agree: 2 Disagree: 0

jc4me: If you don't mind me having a heated moment here, NAMBLA is gross. I can't believe that that organization exists. I am NOT a pedophile, and yet, because of this organization, people assume I am. Pedophilia, rape, and bestiality, all of which have been attributed to aspects of the GTBT community, are completely separate aspects of a person than homosexuality. Two men or two women consenting to love each other is very different in a nonconsentual situation such as rape or taking advantage of a child or animal.

And for you and the others on here who say that the bible can be rewritten to "be sensitive to the murderer, the fornicator, the wife beater, the serial killer and the adulterer as well," I challenge you to do so. Show that there are passages in the bible, based on the original text and that context of that text, that promotes those things as being okay. I've heard each of those groups justifying themselves with the Bible, but so far I haven't seen a study or report yet that says that the original text does not implicate those groups. Until you can bring forth the same points I'm trying to bring up, about misinterpretation in today's doctrine, how can you lump homosexuality with those sins?
jc4me »

Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:44 am Agree: 3 Disagree: 1

Continued:

I suppose the word "catamite" referred to in the 1 letter to the Corinthian Church written by the Apostle Paul which in roman times was an adult male who used a male boy for sexual pleasure really has no implication for modern times, since NAMBLA, one of the so called champions of the homosexual cause actually endorses pedophilia, but no, no application for modern times here; no I don’t see any facts, do you, nope.

Hmmmmm, funny that some of the pro-homosexual people here are saying homosexuality is a modern concept when the scholar Mrs Nylan who is rewriting and reinterpreting the Scriptures from a post modern, liberal perspective is taking nearly 2000 years of God’s Word in it's original context and rewriting it to mean some other definition. She is saying she has the true translation to the Scriptures –of course, nearly 2000 years after the original writers wrote it.

No, never mind the facts we've presented, let's look at a woman who is clearly a post modern emergent who has decided to rewrite the Scriptures, and take that as fact, because after all, the post moden liberals would love to make the Bible morally relative today; just like our culture is. Hmm…hint, hint….. I ask, hey Kevin VT, and Kybarsfang, why not just rewrite the Bible to be sensitive to the murderer, the fornicator, the wife beater, the serial killer and the adulterer as well, and while she's at it, why not reinterpret the Word for the liar and the thief and the pedophile, and people who have sex with animals too.

It's also funny how groups like GLSTN have also interjected their homosexual agenda in the public schools of South Florida, as well as other places around the country, but the pro-homosexual so-called "Christians" think it's derogatory to bring up groups like this when talking about the depravity of homosexual sin, but i guess we're the bigots who bring up the facts.
jc4me »

Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:43 am Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

TPRBABE wrote:

"OK, so let me get this straight. The gay man who plays the "woman" in the relationship would not be homosexual, it's the gay man who plays the "man" who is homosexual because he penetrates the other man's anus?

<scratching head ...>

I'm no "classical Greek lexicographer" like Ms. Nyland, but I do know how to look up the roots of words. "Arsenokoites" is a compound word, made from the combination of "Arsen" (male) and "Koites" (sexual union - where we get the word 'coitus').

In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, it can't mean female fornicators ("Pornos") or adulterers ("Moichos"), since they are different words altogether, and Paul already named those two groups as not inheriting the kingdom of God anyway. The only people left to have sex with men, then, would be other men ... so silly me; I guess that men having sex with other men are homosexual. Now why didn't I think of that?"

You're so right on tuprbabe, and to think that someone as scholarly as KevinVT would write:

""a social liberal scholar who has twisted the meaning of the Greek out of context to endorse homosexuality, and has gone so far as to re-write the Bible "

Actually you have it exactly backwards: she's the scholar who knows what the original Greek in context would have meant. It's you folks who have twisted the meaning into something meaning "homosexual." There was no concept of homosexual in Biblical times. Did not exist. No word for it in any language. It's a modern concept. Sorry.

And interesting that some of you admit you are homophobic, as well as demonstrating it."
kybarsfang »

Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:46 am Agree: 2 Disagree: 3

We're not "twisting the Bible to justify our sin", we're showing that there is truth in the Word that current doctrine fails to acknowledge. I've seen several people here, both pro-gay and anti-gay. who have provided different translations of the same passage. Anybody here should know that literally reading the Bible without any thought at all to the context of the passage results in statements that don't fit. If we read the Bible word-for-word and took the literal words as their own context (that is, once we decided which of the several current translations of the Bible to read from), then we would interpret that it took God six 24-hour periods to create everything (which would assume He obeyed a time system invented in the Roman age), and it would be impossible for a rich person to enter Heaven (good luck fitting that camel through a needle eye, right?). However, the magic of the Word lies in its context, in knowing more about the story thanks to further research, or understanding of the metaphor. What I see here among the dissenters is a failure to go beyond quoting from whatever translation they have available and prove their statements with context. The original scrolls that made up the first Bible were not written in English, and we assume that King James and his people translated everything in the context of what God wants. If I recall correctly, these are the same people who said you could buy your way into Heaven.

When you blindly follow the heard and don't research what you believe in yourself, I feel that is where evil can grab you and make you feel holy while you are actually doing wrong.

Also:

"One said I am disturbed. Another said the concept of homosexuality did not exist in biblical times. I appreciate the good laugh. You champions of perversion and immorality ought to go into the comedy business."

This statement is way more sarcastic than I'd expect from someone who claims to understand the true intentions of God. My understanding is that we should work toward humility, instead of making prideful statements. I apologize if I am misinterpreting you, but it feels to me that I am not.
John5796 »

Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:22 am Agree: 3 Disagree: 3

One said I am disturbed. Another said the concept of homosexuality did not exist in biblical times. I appreciate the good laugh. You champions of perversion and immorality ought to go into the comedy business.

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