A national weekly news magazine recently featured a debate between atheist/author Sam Harris and author/pastor Rick Warren ("The Purpose Driven Life"). As part of his debate, Mr. Harris threw down a challenge to prove God's existence by finding a deserving amputee and having 1 billion people pray for God to grow the leg back. In trying to disprove the existence of God, it's unclear why Mr. Harris chooses to focus on amputees growing limbs back rather than looking for a sea to split open or fish and loaves to multiply, and it's equally unclear why Harris specifically asked that it be a "leg" amputee versus an "arm" amputee. Nevertheless, that was the challenge.
A few weeks ago, C-Span featured a speech given at the annual meeting for American Atheists by a former "Saturday Night Live" actress. This group gave her a standing ovation and even presented her with a special plaque to honor her courage as an "atheist celebrity." The actress joked, "There is evidence for God, just not very good evidence." The audience was shown patting themselves on the back, laughing, applauding and apparently reveling in their ability to declare, "There is no God." Days later, on CBS' "Sunday Morning," the same group was featured, along with the same actress, again celebrating the "joys of atheism." Once more, the interview brought up the "amputee challenge" of Mr. Harris.
My wife of 21 years, Gracie, is a double-amputee (both legs), and our organization, Standing With Hope, is, to our knowledge, the only evangelical prosthetic limb outreach in the world. We travel to West Africa and work with the government of Ghana to train and equip their workers on building high-quality prosthetic legs. Gracie's definition of high quality is summed up in her statement, "I will not place a leg on someone that I am not willing to wear myself." It is hoped that Mr. Harris will agree that Gracie, who has undergone 70 operations and still finds the will and ability to help others struggling with limb loss, is a suitable "deserving" candidate for his challenge.
Atheists seem to insinuate that the ministry and comfort my family depends on, and shares with individuals across the country and overseas, is misguided and only a mirage. It is interesting to note that this group seems to take greater issue with the God of the Bible and Christian faith than with other world religions. They don't seem to put the Muslim faith to the test with the same sarcasm they save for Christianity.
According to this group, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, King David, Elijah, John the Baptist and Jesus were deceived at best, or liars at worst. Of Jesus' remaining 11 disciples, 10 of them, and eventually the Apostle Paul, were tortured, beaten and died horrible deaths, without ever renouncing the resurrection. There are Islamic extremists who allow themselves to be killed, but they believe in their cause. The disciples were in a position to know whether or not Jesus actually rose from the dead.
His crucifixion is a matter of history (so is His resurrection). One simple question for atheist is: If Jesus did not rise from the dead, then why did the disciples allow themselves to be killed so horribly?
Conspirators at Enron wouldn't even face jail time without turning on each other. Michael Vick is going to jail because his friends turned on him over a dog-fighting ring. I have never heard of anyone willingly enduring torture or execution for a lie they perpetuated. If one of the disciples recanted, maybe history would have a case. But they all went to their deaths (skinned alive, crucifixion, sawn in two, beheaded) praising Jesus Christ. According to American Atheists, all of those disciples were wrong. Continue >>
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"The Bible is circular in its logic. The best Christian apologists refuse to use it in arguments for the existance of God."
I wanted to point this out Secularlist/athiest try to assualt us with a few different methods and on of these is induction. They try and infer an argument by using general conclusions, like the above. The Bible is circular logic and in a sense the poster is right. The Bible starts and ends with God, but to the athiest; the same point can be applied; they start with nothing and end with nothing. Most of the time if induction fails they fall back to political correctness. The second, assault is seduction, which means the Christian should put away the Bible for instance and reason the arguments using the same toolsthe athiest do, which is not what a Christian does or should do because our strength is from our Lord. Once seduction fails they result to cliches or one liners, much like this poster did with:
"Watch out for that leprechaun, you deluded freak."
This is what happens when a worldly argument runs it's course and stands bare in front of the truth of the Word.
Thirdly, Mr Harris is wanting to attack the foundation of Christianity and that foundation is faith. For the athiest, this is something they lost, forgot or never had, but it is completely true on whichever way they arrived.... they lack it now. Unfortunately, people like this would love to errode that foundation in you and for what reason. We as Christians believe that if we witness to a person and they accept Jesus's call, we are trying to not only, help that person live a better life but have an eternal life. Instead of erroding that is adding to. The opposite of this is the athiest wants to remove your faith and belief because they think they have the answers and we are delusional. They are scared of a God because they are scared that they have to come to terms with their own failures and lacks.They cannot except their self doubts and come to terms with who they really are. They will tell you different but deep down, that is where it is.They cannot have faith because they do not want to surrender what they are not and be who they are. They will call that delusional. We Christians call that freedom. Paul says in Romans 5: "Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have have gained access by faith into the grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings because we know suffering produces perserverance; perserverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not dissapoint us, because God has poured out His Love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us." Do not let this man's folly play out in your life. Pray that God will connect with him and that he can learn true freedom through Grace.
May the Lord bless you and keep you. Peace to each of you through our Lord Jesus.
The Watch
Secondly, MrHarris directly attacks the communication lines with our Creator. When you ask for God's healing hand to touch someone, you are doing it out of Love and a genuine want for the well being of that person. Does God answer those types of prayers? Yes, sometimes he does. Sometimes he does not or they are not answered in the way we hoped. The key to this is in the last statement; "the way WE hoped." We must understand, that God has a plan for us all. He won't let our selfishness get into the way of that. We do need to remember this, His way is better than ours, because His way glorifies Him and as a result our needs are better met. God isn't a big Santa in the sky. He does promise to meet our needs and sometimes our desires, as long as they fit into his plans. Paul, in 2 Corinthians said he asked the Lord to remove a burden or thorn in his flesh, but he was answered no. God told him: "My Grace is sufficent for you for my power is made perfect in weakness." Do not fall into Mr. Harris trap, because he doesn't understand our Lord. His intentions maybe good, if a limb is returned to an amputee, but inevitably, "Good intentions pave the road to Hell."
Sam Harris reveling with pats on the back, high fives and the company of has been actresses, has proven one thing and one thing only: in all his athiestic wisdom, he has absolutely no clue in what he is trying so desperately to combat. His "test" is a supposedly dead in for the Christian, because he would argue; "Where is your God? No prayers have been answered, no limbs have been grown. He must not exist." The back arguments being that "surely if there is a God he would answer the prayers to help a poor amputee." Also that answered prayer is nothing more than coincidence and happenchance. Sort of the comment that Will E. made a few post back. Some have touched on the some of the problems with Mr. Harris's "test" and I will also approach this issue with exposing the trappings of following along with this line of thought.
First, For the Christian we must look at this in a Biblical sense. Mr Harris ask a billion people to pray for a desercing amputee's legs to grow back. He calls this a test. His idea is to show that the prayer is not answered thus proving God does not exist and that prayer is meaningless and if any results might occur, it is only coincidence and pure luck. If we look at Matthew 4. We will see Jesus being tempted in the desert by satan. The second temptation is this:
"5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘ He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,
‘ In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”
7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the LORD your God."
Satan is asking Jesus to try and physically himself and let the Angels come and save him. Basically asking Him to prove his Godship by involking the authority over Heaven and commanding His angels. The question is could He have done this? Yes is the short answer, but wisely our LORD answered with: “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the LORD your God." Tempted in this means test. Some translations actually read: "It is written again, 'You shall not Test the LORD your God.'" In effect, this is exactly what Mr Harris ask us as Christians. To test our God. This is a slippery slope your on if you agree to this because if you attempt to test God in this manner you testing Him to His existence, therefore you are injecting a doubt into your belief, which means yu are in danger of rejecting the commitment you made to Christ. Do not fall into the entanglement of this temptation.
To Will E. God is not some genie in a bottle to jump out and perform for mankind. Prayer is actually me having a conversation throughout my day with Him, this is a relationship.
God is beyond time and space and HE sees things as they already are, it is man with the limited view. God sees events in a panoramic view, we see in a dark, limited view and if you are denying His existence, why would you expect Him to do anything for you?
See, I have a relationship with my Father, Almighty God, and every day I talk with Him (prayer) and it is unceasingly. I love and enjoy His company, and yes He talks to me as well.
God has done everything He already to show His love and existence to mankind, and many reject His answers, for they don't like the way HE answered them; or God says no, for HE knows if something is harmful to us.
He never promised HE would answer all our prayers exactly the way we want. Are we seeking the Giver or just the gifts? See, I believe in God, I know that He exists and I know that when I pray I have what I have asked. If for some reason I go to Him and He says no; I check myself, am I asking with a selfish motive, is this going to harm me or someone else.
In the scheme of life GOD gave HIS Son, the greatest gift to pay the debt penalty for mankind, and still the hearts are hardened and unbelief reigns; but not for very long.
One of God's names is "The Ancient of Days," this tells me that my Father is more majestic and more awesome than any man can comprehend. Man's logic and his intellect are flawed in this world.
God answers all prayer, unless iniquity blocks those prayers. He is a Holy God! I know what I believe and why I believe it and that's good enough for me!
To Will E.
Beloved, nothing is impossible with God.
Are we to assume that it has never happened based on the fact that there are no reports of this. There are many miraculous things that happen on this planet everyday, and yet very few, if any, get reported.
A camera-crew has not followed every individual that has ever been on this planet to prove otherwise. That's what is impossible, not the it couldn't happen, but that we know everything that has ever happened.
To assume it hasn't is speculation. To assume it couldn't is unwise.
The "challenge" of healing amputees is to point out how the "effects" of prayer are really only what one could expect given enough time, luck and chance. You pray for a good parking spot. You pray to get that job. You pray for someone to understand they have a drinking problem. You pray for cancer to heal itself. All of these things could happen on their own. Diseases go into remission or heal themselves. People figure out their own problems. But prayer will never, ever, ever, ever cause someone's legs to grow back because time and chance will not solve this problem; it's simply a physical impossibility. Thus you never see it happen. "God" does nothing that time and chance and luck can't do on their own.
People can call me what the like, I'll be a deluded freak as long as it is for JESUS. I learned first hand how FLAWED man's reasoning is and I know that God's is not!
I am so thankful Jesus came to set me free from this dead and dying world. I praise Him for paying a debt that I could never pay. I give Him glory for He is The King of kings and Lord of lords.
He is The Creator and I am HIS daughter. Imagine that, I am the daugher of The King, that makes me royalty and every other child of God as well. I think I'd rather be a gatekeeper in my Father's house then to dwell in the tents of the wicked!
By His Grace,
Princess Annie, daughter of THE KING! (by the way, The LORD is coming soon!) For those who do not believe, the Wrath of God remains on them, that is God's Word, but for us it is the power of salvation for all who believe! Thank you Holy Spirit for leading us into all truth!
To Mollywriter: You are free to believe what you want, but could you please refrain from the name calling on here.
No one twisted my arm or forced me to know God. God, Himself revealed Himself to me and I am forever thankful. I grew up in foster homes, abused and discarded by the people of this world. It was the gracious, Lord Jesus, who found me in the gutters of this world and in His love reached down and pulled me out of the muck and mire of this horrible world.
Most of the world is in denial, there deeds are evil and they do not want the light of Christ to shine on their deeds. I walked in this world and I know what I'm speaking about.
If it were NOT for GOD, I would be dead at the hands of fellow humans. Jesus didn't come to set up any religion, HE came to restore the relationship with God that man had before the rebellion.
Once I used to think this was all a fairy tale too, until my EYES were cleared of the blinders I was wearing. There was so much shame in my life, I didn't want a Holy God to look at me; but I had Him figured all wrong. HE accepted me just as I am; and loves me just as I am and HIS Love has healed all the wounds in my heart and He has given me a new spirit.
Mollywriter, you may not care to believe in God, but HE is no fairy, He is quite real and quite specatacular! The more I get to know Jesus and the closer I get to Him, HE just blows me away!
The day HE became real to me was when I had enough of this world, the hatred, the evil, and the violence and I cried out to HIM; and HE answered.
God will not answer prayers when sin is in our lives, God is HOLY and when we walk in obedience to Him, we have all we ever need. The rain falls on the just and the unjust. God is not a genie to be answering peoples whims. But HE does answer the prayers of HIS children!
How do I know, HE's answered every one of mine. HE does know best and I am so thankful that my life is now under HIS control and not my own. Glory be to God!
To Mollywriter:
Watch out for that leprechaun, you deluded freak.
This is the fruit of what you believe in? No thanks. I'd rather live by love one another as He has loved us, as this fruit is much, much sweeter.
Dear one, I say this with much love, but you are the one who has been deceived. We do not believe in God because the Bible tells us He is real, we believe in God because He has made Himself real to us, and not through just His word. Through life circumstances, answered prayers, life changing events, and the list is endless. If a Christian tells you otherwise, this person is not a Christian.
The deceit comes from one source, but distributed through many. Science can be one source. While what scientists say may or may not be fact, it still is an incomplete picture. Atheism and science go hand-in-hand, they are inseparable. But scientists, in all reality are only able to work with what has been given them to work with. They work with creation only, but ignore the creator. They themselves say they are only speculating when it comes to their ideas, they use the word "theory". In reality, it is an incomplete picture. Because what they are working with, they know not where it came from, only theories.
This is a very dangerous place to be in. Saying something is fact, when you don't even know where it came from.
Since science and atheism go hand-in-hand, this would logically suggest that atheists are also working with an incomplete picture, and walking the same creaky dangerous path.
Amazingly, the prayers of amputees and their families have never been answered. \
How do you know God has not answered their prayers? God always gives us what is needed more that what we desire in selfishness. But as one person stated before, Hebrews 11:8 He that cometh to God must believe that He is, and He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him. 2 Timothy 2:15-16: Be dilighent to present yourself approved to God, a worker to does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer.
Isaiah 55:8-9, 11: "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways", says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughs... So shall my Word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.
Joshua: 1:8 This Book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate in the day and night, that you may observe to Do according to All that is Written in it. For Then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.
Now Sam Harris, WayBeyondSoccerMom and mollywriter, each of you may feel that these amputee(s) are deserving of being healed. You may even feel these individuals have done great works among men. However, the works of men is the word of God.
1 Corinthians 13:1-3 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angeles, but have not love, I have become a sound brass or a clanging cymbal. (you make a lot of useless noise meaning nothing.) And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
1) Sounding brass or clanging cymal are useless without a musician to give the purpose. you make a lot of useless noise meaning nothing. (2)You can solve the greatest mysteries; produce great work of knowledge; you could have complete faith in yourself that IF you believed in God; mountains would be moved and healing could happen. All this amounts to nothing because you do not.) (3) Even if you feed the world and donate your body to science or whatever, you have no love of God. It will not, shall not, amount to anything.
Thus you can justify yourself but before God it means nothing. He is the determining body that must approve every "good" work.
Please see the website:
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http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com/
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to see why Sam Harris discusses amputees. He is not mocking people who are amputees. Instead, he is drawing attention to the many "prayers" that God has answered over the years. Amazingly, the prayers of amputees and their families have never been answered.
Mollywriter, you should gain some wisdom about the things God has done. Because you have no basis for what you say. You are worldly and talk about spritiual things beyond your comprehension. I hope your theories give you comfort; And your science does not ever fail you. Lest you find yourself in the hands of the Living God.
Watch out fo that leprechaun, you deluded freak.
Correction:
But as for all your satan talk, you really sound stupid. What if I kept saying that leprechauns were speaking through you, and that you were just a tool for the leprechauns, and the leprechauns will get you in the end? Do you see why spouting satan at someone who doesn't believe in satan is counterproductive?
Thanks for proving my point. You think spouting that God doesn't exit will make Him go away. You truly are of a debased mind.
The Bible is older than medicine yet go descried the body in the book of Ezekiel. God make you flow the His basic commandments. God said you would come thousand of years ago. Circular to those who cannot see and wisdom to those who have understanding. You strive against God people as to destroy them. But you cannot destroy the things that are God's. God's said His word would not come back to Him void. If history is of any value, God word has continued for thousand of years and still goes forth. Christ name reigns over all names...as God stated Thousand of years ago. You think you can win. Atheists believe more knowledge would change the world. Yep, we have more bombs, mistrust, and counselors than ever. You throw money at solving world plagues. Did you know scientists haven’t cured anything? You argue about evolution...but the "missing link" is never found on theorized. As I have stated before on this site, you should keep flowing you theories. But I would advise you to research the word. Theories are predictions and unless you are a fortune teller you are flowing fables and myths.
If you had wisdom, you would not speak on things that confuse you. What did Shakespeare say about a "fool on stage?" Because careful, don't let them turn off the "light."