Updated 11:59 pm.EST, Mon November 23, 2009

Church|Wed, Nov. 28 2007 05:04 PM EST

Christian Divorce Trends Fuel Debates

By Lillian Kwon|Christian Post Reporter

When life coach and televangelist Paula White went into her marriage 18 years ago, she thought she'd end her life with her husband, Randy. Divorce was not anything she ever wanted to happen, she recently said.

  • Randy and Paula White of Without Walls Internation
    (Photo: AP Images / The Tampa Tribune, File)
    Randy and Paula White tell worshippers at Without Walls International Church in Tampa, Fla., that they are divorcing at a night service on Thursday, August 23, 2007.

Now separated from Randy and continuing her own ministry, White has found herself in the midst of a wide debate as more evangelicals show acceptance of divorce.

"The fact is as many have been critical or judgmental [about the divorce] ... I've also found thousands that have reached out to me in a way that maybe they never did," said White in a live interview Monday with CNN's Larry King.

The famed pentecostal preacher's divorce announcement in August compounded with the divorce case of another power couple – televangelist Juanita Bynum and Bishop Thomas Weeks III – that same week fueled discussions on whether Scripture allows the separation of marriage partners as both couples received support.

“I think conservative Christians are becoming more liberalized in the sense of, I guess, making more room for the acceptance of divorce and remarriage,” said Mark Galli, Christianity Today magazine's managing editor, according to Religion News Service. “You’ll see a lot of churches that plunge right in and have divorce ministries. ... Marriage is a really difficult thing in our culture right now.”

The monthly magazine published last month a cover story titled "When to Separate What God has Joined: A Closer Reading on the Bible on Divorce" that stirred controversy particularly with conservative evangelicals.

In the article, British Evangelical scholar David Instone-Brewer wrote that God allows divorce and subsequent remarriage in cases of adultery, physical and emotional neglect, abuse and abandonment – a shift from the commonly held view that only adultery is a biblically justified reason for divorce. He later clarified that divorce is not allowed for just any emotional or physical neglect or other minor infractions but only on "serious and specific grounds." In effect, divorce is allowed for adultery, abandonment or abuse, he stated.

Televangelist Bynum separated from her husband after alleging he assaulted her at an Atlanta hotel parking lot in August. The Whites did not give a clear reason for their divorce but insisted the separation was amicable.

Meanwhile, theological conservative John Piper called the widening grounds of legitimate divorce "tragic."

Piper pointed out that Jesus' standards for marriage were high and that he is "radical, not accommodating." Alluding to the biblical meaning, Piper further explained that marriage displays the covenant-keeping faithfulness of Christ and his church and that Christ will never divorce his wife and take another.

"The world we live in needs to see a church that is so satisfied in Christ that its marriages are not abandoned for something as amorphous as 'emotional neglect,'" he stated in his website DesiringGod.org.

The world, however, is seeing a less faithful image.

Studies in recent years have shown that born-again Christians are just as likely to get divorced as non-Christians. According to The Barna Group's 2004 survey, 35 percent of born again Christians have experienced divorce – a figure identical to that of married adults who are not born again.

The research group also reported that "relatively few divorced Christians experienced their divorce before accepting Christ as their savior."

Both Paula White and Bynum continue to have a strong following even after their highly public divorces. White has out a new book, You're All That!, and Bynum said she believes her experience may broaden her ability to reach people.

One pastor, however, isn't convinced.

"[M]arriage is to be a picture of God's relationship with His covenant people," wrote Christopher Tillman in response to Instone-Brewer's debate with Piper. "To allow for divorce in the life of a believer is to do serious damage to Gospel witness in one's life."

But in a culture where the divorce rate is increasing and Christians are struggling in their marriages, Tillman adds, "What needs to be communicated is not that rethinking marriage yields more 'biblically' lenient standards for divorce than have been traditionally held, but rather, that marriage is an institution to be treasured by us as Christians."

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  • Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:14 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Since my prior two attempts to post have been prevented then you may read the entire post as intended here:

    http://alockslee.blogspot.com/

    You may also respond if you wish.

    TFR

  • Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Since the first time didn't allow the post here it is again.

    Here is a quote to ponder and I would like all those who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus to justify how, when the topic of divorce is clearly explained in direct,and specific terms from statements attributed to have been spoken by Jesus, that his instructions are
    ignored!

    "In Matthew 19:4b-9, Jesus said:

    "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning â

  • Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Here is a quote to ponder and I would like all those who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus to justify how, when the topic of divorce is clearly explained in direct,and specific terms from statements attributed to have been spoken by Jesus, that his instructions are ignored!

    "In Matthew 19:4b-9, Jesus said:

    "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning â

  • Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:01 am Agree: 14   Disagree: 0

    What really burns me is that Paula will not admit that her marriage has failed. It is like she cannot show herself to be human enough to have failed at something. She is putting a spin on this divorce as if God is sending it as some kind of "season" in her life, like as if He is doing it to make her stronger, refine her, blah blah blah. She and Randy have both said that their ministries have taken them in separate directions. Garbage! If your ministry is pulling your marriage apart, then you need to take a long hard look at the ministry and decide if these are things that GOD is asking you to do, or are you being like Saul and offering up sacrifices when God is only asking for your obedience?

  • Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:41 pm Agree: 9   Disagree: 0

    People who are public figures standing for Christ have alot of people watching very closely to their every move. Paula and Randy put their stamp of approval on okaying divorce. They need to be prayed for because they are not trusting God and believing that God is the great deliverer for all situations. They are standing in the gap for many of weak faith and now these people see failure and it disarms God's ability to take people through hard situations. Stand up and be strong in the power of God's might Randy and Paula, wake up and see the hour of deciet that our society is living in. Jesus is coming again and we all have to be strong!

  • Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:00 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    A quote from the story, "Bynum said she believes her experience may broaden her ability to reach people." How sad that we validate our "experiences" saying they broaden us for ministry. Perhaps they do, but shall we creat these experiences just so we'll have a platform to speak. I beleive it is a great discredit to her witness. Unless your man is beatin on ya or the children or abusing you in some way, such as verbally, if the man is a Christian there isn't any reason the marriage vow should be broken.

  • Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:07 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    Does anyone think it strange that Paula White and Donald Trump had already collaborated on Finance Seminars, and that she is now living in an apartment in the Trump Tower? As far as I know, he's never mentioned being a Christian?

  • Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:18 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Paula is indeed a sinner like the rest of us....however, she has brought this ''result'' upon herself and its a bit irratating to read of how she is ''so brave in her trial'' and how she herself is so bewildered how ''poor little me is sent such suffering''. Paula? you are NOT suffereing for Christ. You are a sinner, you are dissobedient. No mariage is perfect, no relationship is perfect. I suggest before you rapidy move on to marriage 3 & 4, that you read about the Fruits of the Spirit. This may be helpful to you as we are all told that we are expected to display, patience, longsuffereing, kindness, FORGIVENESS, gentleness.....etc. Have a read in the book of Galatians and then get back on the talk show circuit...Mmmmmm. I need to re read too....this wasn't so gentle huh?

  • Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:31 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Whatever reasons RANDY and PAULA WHITE had for the divorce...I just pray that the LORD would just fix whatever went wrong.As I learned about their divorce...my heart broke.I don't approve of divorce but well...They are human just like us...sinners just like us...But I know the LORD loves them just like He loves everyonelse.Whatever they decide to do now that will be between them and the LORD.Whatever wrong thing they have done Instead of judging them... we must pray for them.I'm sure that THE LORD DOESN'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE'S UGLY/NEGATIVE OPINION.Doesn't the bible say that we must pray for one another?...and that only the LORD has the right to judge? We all don't know what happened exactly so please before saying anything the LORD wouldn't want you to say...ask yourself..."Am I without sin?" If you find yourself saying "no..." then keep your thoughts to yourself and ask GOD to forgive you....

  • Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    holito8 - I dislike ignorance as much as you (its why I spend so much time on this site - I don't like seeing my faith hyjacked). I read both passages and will repeat what I said before - the Constitution was written by man, the US was formed by man. We are mostly a nation of believers but more importantly we are a nation based on certain freedoms.

    You can says what you want, but you are still disagreeing with God. Let me take you to New Testament because you are still not seeing; Read Roman 13:1-14 or as much as you can.

  • Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Scripture doesn't allow for divorce for but a few choice reasons, and those reasons are still allowed but not commanded (see Hosea). Is one free to do this thing? Yes. Is it permitted within His church without repercussions? No. Leaders are those display character qualities that are expected from God, not on par with the society at large.

    Jim

  • Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:32 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    holito8 - I dislike ignorance as much as you (its why I spend so much time on this site - I don't like seeing my faith hyjacked). I read both passages and will repeat what I said before - the Constitution was written by man, the US was formed by man. We are mostly a nation of believers but more importantly we are a nation based on certain freedoms.

  • Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:00 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    ifeelfine72, mcfbc, God can use anyone to accomplish His will. He stirred the spirit king Cyrus king of Persia ( a non Jew) to allow His people to return and rebuild the temple. Read 2 Chronciles 36:22-23, Ezra 1:1-11. He make a proclamation throughouth all his kindgom. Read before you speak; I dislike ignorance. If God did it then, He can do it again.

  • Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:04 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Nerohdam: "Believe it or not the principles of the United States were based on the Bible"

    rubinlueski: "So that's why the US ended up with slavery."

    Actually, that's not factual. Slavery existed in the US long before the Continental Congress drafted the Articles of Confederation OR the Constitution. Slavery also existed in other countries who did not base their governing principles on the Bible, arguably more so in countries which did not believe in the God of the Bible. And this is still true today.

  • Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:00 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    I've just noticed the description of Paula White as a "life coach". After two failed marriages, it struck me to wonder just how "qualified" she is to coach anyone about life. I know she is wealthy, that her "ministry" has brought in far more money than her now-ex-husband's, and I hope that's not a deterrent to some deep soul-searching on her part. (I read recently that the church is deep in debt, and I do think that warrants investigation.) I feel VERY sorry for the people of this church, and I pray they don't give up on God simply because their "ministers" gave up on obeying Him concerning the marriage covenant.

  • Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:07 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    They can always get re-married. It's been done before.

  • Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:44 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Christians have been bickering about this in the United States since before there was a United States. Most of the founding fathers were deists, not necessarily Christians. Some were very firm in their religious convictions, others not so much. Jefferson and Washington called themselves Christians but barely were. Adams I believe was too but barely. It is exactly that reason why they made freedom of religion.

    God did not write the constitution - man did.

  • Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:14 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    I didn't know God wrote the Constitution?

  • GMG »
    Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:39 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    rubinlueski - you said "In regards to Europeans, the majority have religious beliefs, but view it as something that is private and leave it at home and church, not the in the court house or government. As the United States of America becomes a more diverse society with other religious groups growing in numbers - Hindu's, Buddhists, Muslims, Shinto's, keeping religion out of government is all the more important to protect the liberties for all."

    Here's a quote from your separation of church and state guy; Thomas Jefferson asked, "can the liberties of a nation be...secure if we have removed their only firm basis: a conviction in the minds of men that these liberties are the gift of God?"

    It is this very belief that allows for our freedom, and includes freedom for all those hindus, etc. etc. If our founding fathers had left their religion at home or at church, what would our nation be like? And btw, you do know that they used to hold "church" in the public governmental buildings, don't you?

  • Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:54 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    rubinlueski, Did you know God protected your right of choice. The Constitution/ Bill of Rights is His document ensuring your freedom along with His people. God always says to choose whom you will follow. Now look at other countries that are not founded on Christian beliefs, how many of them are free? Many Muslim countries are not so welcoming to other beliefs, or you could try some of the more commuist, buddist or hindu countries. Israel is the Land of Prosperity(Promised). USA is the Land of Opportunity.

  • Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:04 pm Agree: 9   Disagree: 0

    Slavery was a cultural evil born out of man's sin and laziness. It was never God’s original intent. Likewise divorce NEVER originated from God but was the result of mankind’s rebellion against God within marriage. Every covenant that God makes with Mankind was never flippant, but was meant to be non-negotiable and permanent. It was never a contract of ink hereby a person could whimsically say, 'Well contracts were made to be broken...' A covenant was always forged through blood. Therefore, if a person ever broke a covenant with someone it could cost that person his or her life. Divorce still unleashes a spirit of violence in the land. It hurts children and destroys the foundation of family. It is not an accident that children wounded from divorced homes are more likely to be rebellious against authority especially against the Highest Authority - God, Trust is corrupted and the unique depths of a persons soul, which was shared with the spouse, is trashed like a piece of waste by him or her causing a wound that only God can heal. God's standard has never changed about sin. God hated divorce during the period the Old Covenant and He hates divorce now during this period of the New Covenant that was forged by the Blood of Christ. God expects all who have a covenant relationship with God live it out daily. How in the world can ministers of God expect to minister to people without the presence of God in their lives, without a conviction of personal holiness, and without obeying God's word in their own lives?

    The Gospel of the Kingdom === >>
    http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear

  • Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:45 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    there were slavery here because of ignorance not God.

  • Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:34 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Nerohdam, you stated "Believe it or not the principles of the United States were based on the Bible"

    So that's why the US ended up with slavery.

    from Exodus 20:2–17:

    " You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour."

    I suppose what that meant was, don't covet your neighbours slaves, get your own.

  • Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:28 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    I also believe the book of Daniel and Revelations has great insight as to current times and those who must be careful as many will fall pray to this message of inclusion. The message of inclusion plays games with the thoughts OF MAN and the feelings OF MAN but this sweet message is not just and true. If we could all get along then that would imply there is no sin. But it is sin that shows that we can not all get along. Man has been going at it for centuries to solve this problem of injustice, war, sickness and with each "advance" in medicine, technology and what ever man made "solution" it has gotten us nowhere. Only God in his infinite wisdom has given that solution based upon what He has done and nothing of our own device.

  • Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:17 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    rubinlueski - Believe it or not the principles of the United States were based on the Bible. Perhaps that is why so many of those in the ACLU would prefer not to see In God We Trust on US Coins. But I guess Christianity was not involved in that State process and it miraculously appeared. :)

    Also, your mention of Europeans keeping their faith private and at home is contrary to what is taught in the Bible. I am also assuming you are not a Christian as we are to take the Word with us everywhere. Not to keep it at home and in "private". Tony Blair recently commented on your statements when he said he kept his faith private. I guess that is what makes the blessed US different than our English counterparts.

    I regard to your argument to allow you to choose. I don't disagree that you have a right to choose but I don't agree with your argument to suppress my message. As I will say that the hindus and other various religions can express their views as well but in your opinion to tout inclusion you exclude Christianity to be voiced.

    satan loves nothing better when the message is no spread. That means you are ineffective. As the book of James extolls, your faith must produce action based upon what Christ has done in your life. Faith without works is dead. And to pre-empt those, I am not saying that one needs faith and works for salvation, I am saying you must also practice what you preach. And the great commission clearly states we must go out and spread the Good News.

  • Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:59 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    Nerohdam, Indeed the founding fathers wanted to protect religious freedom, but not support state sponsored religion. We all have the right to worship in our own way, the ten commandments do not belong in the court house or the public square for example. The blue laws were an invasion of my right to do certain things on Sundays such as the purchase alcohol and various other forms of commerce. Fortunately blue laws have largely been abolished. For those opposed to such activities, don't do it, but allow me to choose for myself. In regards to Europeans, the majority have religious beliefs, but view it as something that is private and leave it at home and church, not the in the court house or government. As the United States of America becomes a more diverse society with other religious groups growing in numbers - Hindu's, Buddhists, Muslims, Shinto's, keeping religion out of government is all the more important to protect the liberties for all.

  • Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:32 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    rubinlueski - Perhaps the reason most europeans do not know Jesus Christ is for the same reason you state. Also if you will check closely the founding fathers based the consitution and the new government based upon religious freedom. In the name of separation of church and state you propose that anyone that has a view of religion not be given any voice. That is so far removed from the origins of the constitution that organizations like the ACLU would try and have you believe otherwise. If that is your views then perhaps you should see how the cutlural revolution in China ended. North Korea is another good example. Look at the Soviet Union. There are clear present day examples showing that the core foundations of a judeo-christian belief system that is not present in a government simply does not work.

  • Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:40 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 5

    Religion in government leads to theocratic rule and all the problems that go with it. The Europeans learned this lesson long ago, and discovered after countless bloody religious wars, its best to keep religion OUT OF GOVERNMENT. Fortunately for Europeans, their governments are largely secular today. Muslim countries, Iraq, Pakistan , Iran and Saudi Arabia to name a few, someday will figure it out too, hopefully with not too much more bloodshed and oppression (They would be a lot further ahead on this if the US stayed out of their business, but we want their oil). Fortunately here in the USA, we are able to prevent religion from encroaching too much in government. Except for brief periods where religious groups attain some level of influence in the affairs of government, it fades as most Americans do not want religion in government. One of the best things I have seen in my live time is the elimination of most Blue Laws in the US.

  • Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:41 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    rubinlueski: whay don't you say what you just said to the Founding Fathers of our country - Benjamin Rush in specifics about keeping the Ten Commandments out of the public square.

  • Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:22 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    GMG, aaahhhh, yeah right, the ten commandments, most of them seem pretty silly to me. with the possible exception of say dont steal or murder. One of my favorites though, is the version from exodus, in parrt- "Neither shall you desire your neighbour’s house, or field, or male or female slave" Slaves, what is this? its ok to have slaves, but dont covet your neighbors...silly stuff, at least to me. If it suits you-great, just dont impose the ten's on me and leave them at church, not the public square.

  • GMG »
    Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:12 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Yep, "the state may make no law governing religion", this is indeed what our country's founders envisioned.

    I don't find the 10 commandments frightening, the precepts are pretty logical and reasoned and form a firm foundation for our laws (by those same founders), which does in fact mean that God intervenes in our everyday life.

  • Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:21 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    As an agnostic, I find the posts on christianpost.com to be both entertaining and freighting. Entertaining in the sense that the comments and beliefs seem like the stuff of centuries past when natural phenomenon were explained in supernatural terms and essentially void of any notion of logic and reason, where god(s) intervened in our daily lives. Freighting in the sense that some of this stuff finds its way into public policy. It is important that religion is as far removed from government as possible- STRONG SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE, just as the vast majority of our countries founders envisioned

  • Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:44 am Agree: 7   Disagree: 0

    I think that we are forgetting one thing. Those in leadership can be forgiven, and should be forgiven for any sin, But they should not return to a public platform until they renew their relationship with Christ.They should be restored by the body of Christ, and be made to work through the deeper issue. We have too many people speaking for God who have never dealt with the real issue that brought about the divorce. Divorce or any other sin is a symptom of a greater issue. I do not agree that a "greater anointing" will be upon someone that has blatantly disregarded the word of God. I don't know the White's or Junaita Bynum but I can tell you if these precious folks don't deal with these issues, they will come back to haunt them. God is more interested in us than what we do for him.

  • Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:31 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    SportinLife -

    What you said is true on both accounts. The homosexual agenda in this country is absolutely a direct assault on living a moral life and having moral relationships. But there are so called Christians who also disregard the Bible whenever it suits them no matter if it's divorce, homosexuality, drunkeness, etc. Thus, those who do are really not Christians according to 1st John where he says that to paraphrase "those who have the love of Him inside him, cannot sin." Folks like Paula and Randy White to be frank are more concerned with money and prestige, which is happening in churches all across this country, and it's not just happening in the megachurches alone.

    A true Christian understands that the Bible is not something that is flexible to one's personal whims, wishes and or agenda. We are to live a life of service to Him(Jesus and God) and thus as servants we go by the rules of our Master, which is the Word of God. Jesus in Revelation specifically warned against the compromising church and what we are seeing today is exactly that.

    But please make no mistake that the tone of your post is quite clear. In that you are doing a "nyahh nyahh" at Christians, and reveling in your self perceived state of being right and looking down on Christians as being hypocrites. A true Christian knows they are a hypocrite, but a fool is one who sits on high pointing the finger. Like a Pharisee?

  • Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:18 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    I was sad to learn that this was Randy and Paula White's second marriage; they had both been divorced before. Unfortunately, there are VERY FEW pastors who teach what the Bible says about divorce anymore. They seem to have more fear of man than of God. I pray for God's mercy on our nation, even more on the church in America. To whom much is given, much is required.

  • Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Its very troubling to see evangelical leaders giving into temptation. Their role is so central for the entire Christian community. I know that evangelicals have been strong witnesses for me as a Catholic. For that I will be always grateful. However, no matter how strong our faith is, we live in a cultural sewer that encourages divorce, so I am not surprised to see this. Here is my opinion of the etiology of the problem:

    This part may be a bit controversial but I hope it doesn't sound partisan. Until 1930 and the Lambeth conference in England there was not a single protestant out there who believed in stopping procreation during sex. During the Lambeth conference the Anglican/Episcopalian Church first gave in to the temptation of allowing for birth control. Or as I call it, stopping God's desire for new life. After the Lambeth conference, one by one, the mainline protestant denominations all caved in a allowed birth control. What is evident is that before 1930, the Christian community was largely united in the Christian view that sex should be the ultimate gift to one another. A gift that expresses and validates God's total and complete love for us. God gave us the ability to procreate so that we could feel what it is like to love completely and totally, to love as he loves, totally and unconditionally. Sex without openness to bringing new life, is a mediocre I love you.

    I am sure most would have to agree with this statement but perhaps some are asking "what in the world does stopping life during sex have to do with divorce?" The answer is that so goes sex, so goes marriage. "what?" you say, are you a repressed individual, hung up on sex? No, but I have a very high view of sex. The sexual act is the ultimate image of Christ and his Church because when open to life it is the ULTIMATE I LOVE YOU. When it is "I love you, but not that much to bring children into the world with you" it is conditional love. We need to live a truly Christian marriage imaging Christ's love for the Church. Its not a dusty old Catholic legalism to suggest that divorcing procreation from sex is an incomplete "I love you." All are capable of seeing this. The evil one has divided Christ's Church on procreation to drive us further from total and complete love.

  • Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:25 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show NEW BOOK - SNAKES IN THE PULPIT WWW.SNAKESINTHEPULPIT.COM WWW.REUBENARMSTRONGSHOW.COM THIS BOOK EXPOSES THESE SO - CALLED PASTORS-- THEY ARE SNAKES hide

  • Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:08 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    Excuses, excuses.

    Christians are quick to blame gay people for "destroying marriage", but--no surprise--they're even quicker to throw out and ignore the bible when it threatens to limit their own lives, rather than someone else's.

  • Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:15 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I personally know some very good God fearing people who have had to divorce because of radically abusive marriages. True, the Scripture does state that God doesn't like divorce, but He much more dislikes His children abusing each other in one way or the other. The Catholic church has realized this and in many cases allows an annulment after a couple is divorced. Annulment states that there was an impediment to the marriage in the first place and that caused it not to be valid. If you marry a mentally or emotionally sick person how can that be a valid marriage ?

  • Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:50 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    Randy and Paul White...how you need to REPENT and turn to God and allow Him to restore your marriage. You do not need to continue your "ministries?" Who's to say they will prosper if you are living in disobedience!!!

    Have you not read - God Hates Divorce!!! John Piper is absolutely correct!! Marriage is a covenantal relationship which is representative of the Christian's relationship with God, and if "evangelical," so-called "Chrisitans" are getting more liberal with this, I fear for the future of Christianity in this nation.

    How much different the alternatives are, and is it no surprise that the Islamic faith is attracting so many more adherents??

    Christian believers, you need to be ashamed of yourselves if you make allowances for divorce or even encourage other believers to divorce. We should be holding on and working through these things and helping others restore their relationships, not applauding those who run away from their marriages because of infidelity and the like. Teachers who are encouraging these things are snakes and wolves in sheeps' clothing.

    For shame, for shame. REPENT FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!!!

  • Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:33 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    I don't have a problem with people who have experienced divorce getting back into ministry. I have a good friend who has pastored for years after his divorce. However, he didn's stay in the pulpit. He stepped aside for years and sought counseling and accountability to deal with the issues. After a time those who were holding him accountable, Godly men who took sin seriously, decided he could go back to the pulpit.

    Here you have none of this. Where is the accountability from their church? Where are Godly leaders to advise them to step down. Of couse they want to continue their ministry. I am sure when you are in such power that you can delude yourself into thinking the ministry cannot survive without you. Unfortunately I don't think this will be the last time we hear about these two, and the news won't be good.

  • GMG »
    Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Ifeelfine - Ok, I hear what you are saying. But you still haven't explained why you think that the passage 1Cor 7:12-14 is being taken out of context.

    You and I have touched on this subject before, and I probably don't have to remind you that I, too, believe marriage is a covenant, and that you don't say "I do" just to turn around and say "I don't" just because things are tough. Maybe seeing it through your eyes will give me a better perspective, and the worst that can happen is I say I don't see it. It any case there's no loss because at least there is a better understanding of where we're coming from.

  • Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:04 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Quote:
    “I think conservative CHRISTIANS ARE BECOMING MORE LIBERALIZED in the sense of, I guess, MAKING MORE ROOM FOR THE ACCEPTANCE OF DIVORCE AND REMARRIAGE,” said Mark Galli, Christianity Today magazine's managing editor, according to Religion News Service. “You’ll see a lot of churches that plunge right in and have divorce ministries. ... Marriage is a really difficult thing in our culture right now.”

    Biblical response:
    "For the time will come when MEN WILL NOT PUT UP WITH SOUND DOCTRINE. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say WHAT THEIR ITCHING EARS WANT TO HEAR." 2 Timothy 4:3

    "You adulterous people, don't you know that FRIENDSHIP WITH THE WORLD IS HATRED TOWARD GOD? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God." James 4:4

    Sound Doctrine:
    "But I tell you that ANYONE who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an ADULTERESS, and ANYONE who marries the divorced woman COMMITS ADULTERY." Matthew 5:32

    "He answered, “ANYONE WHO DIVORCESwife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.” Mark 10:11-12

    “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery." Luke 16:18

    "So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man." Romans 7:3

    "To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife." 1 Corinthians 7:10-11

  • Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:18 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    We need to research the Church Fathers on how they viewed God's Will. How did the early Christians overcome the difficulty and why is it we cannot see past the difficulty.
    http://www.directionforourtimes.com/docs/booklet-divorce.pdf Heaven Speaks booklet on the topic of divorce.
    Homilies of Church Fathers: St. John Chrysostom http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf113.iii.iv.xxi.html
    It is only when we ask God for help do we give Him permission to act in our lives for the betterment of our lives. Asking for help is prayer. God has given us the freewill to choose freely with the expectation that we will choose what is right. We need to explore our faith with early Church Fathers whose writings and counsels are still relevant today. To find their collection visit http://www.ccel.org/

  • Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:16 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    GMG - there is nothing about that passage that allows for divorce. Jesus gave the final word on divorce.

  • Lex »
    Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:12 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Why is it that "churches plunge right in" with divorce ministries instead of marraige ministries. I understand there's emotional healing needed for those who have been through a divorce, but isn't the best defense a good offense?

    And what about Malachi 2? "For the Lord God says that He hates divorce ..."

  • GMG »
    Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:24 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Ifeelfine - Ok, then please explain what you think that passage says.

  • Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:40 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    PastorLeo and GMG - You're both taking that scripture way out of context. Check out Mark or Matthew for what Jesus has to say on the subject. Period, end of story.

  • Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:17 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show NEW BOOK - SNAKES IN THE PULPIT THIS BOOK EXPOSES EDDIE LONG, JOEL OSTEEN,JUANITA BYNUM, EDDIE LONG,JOEL OSTEEN WWW.SNAKESINTHEPULPIT.COM WWW.REUBENARMSTRONGSHOW.COM hide

  • Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:50 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    These are a few expamle of the dire times we live. Let us not forget we are taking a vow before God that is why it is said "do not take this choice lightly." Now, when you break this vow is only to your husband or wife but more importantly to God. A vow before God; you are going to the Almighty and asking Him to give you this person as a mate; You are asking Him to keep you from tempations of "others." Now how can you tell another to stay in a marriage when you have walked away. We got to stand on the foundation of God when we cannot see our way thru. God will bring you thru the wilderness and across the desert, but we have got to hold to His unchanging hand.

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