Calvinists in the Southern Baptist Convention make up a small minority but are steadily growing, particularly among younger Baptists, a recent study showed.
Nearly 30 percent of recent SBC seminary graduates now serving as church pastors indicate they are Calvinists, according to Ed Stetzer, director of LifeWay Research. Only around 10 percent of SBC pastors at large affirm the five points of Calvinism, or Reformed theology, noted Stetzer, comparing the latest results with an earlier 2006 survey conducted by LifeWay Research.
The five points of Calvinism, also called the doctrines of grace, include total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and perseverance of the saints.
Stetzer presented the data at the "Building Bridges: Southern Baptists and Calvinism" conference, which concluded Wednesday, at LifeWay Ridgecrest Conference Center in North Carolina. The recent study was conducted by the North American Mission Board's Center for Missional Research which surveyed those who graduated from master's degree programs at SBC seminaries between 1998 and 2004.
The number of gradates who affirmed Calvinism rose steadily between students who graduated in 1998 and those who graduated in 2004, Stetzer said.
"It would be difficult to say that Calvinism is not a growing influence in SBC life – and certainly a growing influence in the graduates of our seminaries," he told the conference crowd.
However, the steady growth may be a growing issue for Southern Baptists.
"I recently read that one key Southern Baptist leader was quoted as saying the two biggest problems in Southern Baptist life are contemporary churches and Calvinists," Stetzer said. "So there is obviously a growing concern but we're here to talk and build some bridges."
“Calvinism has generated a lot of interest in recent years in Southern Baptist life,” Danny Akin, president of Southeastern Seminary, noted. “Unfortunately we have often talked at and not with one another. Unhealthy rhetoric and misrepresentations from all directions have led to confusion and even ill will among brothers and sisters in Christ."
Nevertheless, Stetzer could not deny the growth of Calvinism in SBC life.
"Calvinism is on the rise among the most recent seminary graduates," he said. "If present trends continue, Calvinism will continue to grow as an influence in our convention."
The Nov. 26-28 conference was designed to facilitate honest discussion on theological issues and help Southern Baptists gain a common understanding.
Explaining the evangelistic implications of the recent studies, Stetzer noted that churches pastored by Calvinists tend to have smaller attendance and typically baptize fewer persons each year. While the study did not look at the "why" factor, it also revealed that the "baptism rate" – the number of annual baptisms relative to total membership and a statistic used to measure evangelistic vitality – of Calvinistic churches is virtually identical to that of non-Calvinistic churches.
A majority of both Calvinistic and non-Calvinistic churches believe that local congregations should be involved in sponsoring missions and planting new churches. Also, Calvinistic recent graduates report that they conduct personal evangelism at a slightly higher rate than non-Calvinists.
At the end of the day, however, both Calvinists and non-Calvinists in Southern Baptist churches are failing to engage "lostness" in North America, Stetzer highlighted.
"This theological discussion has to lead to missional action and that missional action needs to cause Calvinists and non-Calvinists alike to love each other and to encourage each other and to provoke one another on to love and good deeds."
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Did God create most men for the pleasure of sending them to hell? No. He created them with the frustrated pleasure of sending them to his pretty heaven to show He is impotent and that sinners can manipulate him by screaming unfair.
"whosoever will" is as much a truth of Calvinism as it is of Arminianism. Not a single person would will lest God foreordain his choice. Men have free will in that every choice man makes, God does not overrule; it is genuinely the desire of man. No one is coerced.
God has given all men free will. He never forces anyone to believe on Him. Jesus said, "Whoseoever WILL may come." There is no force.
The Myth of Free Will
http://polemos.net/Articles/MYTH%20OF%20FREE%20WILL.html
DRJ,
Unless you endorse a version of universalism, your arguments make little sense. Even a cursory examination of the Word demonstrates that there are many who ARE hell bound. While love is indeed one of the great attribues of God, so is justice, holiness, soveriegnity. To say God is love and nothing more is to make an idol of He who created all things. You speak so much of love, but unless you see man's sin and recognize God's holiness, you can never understand God's love. It is easy to love those who love you, what makes God's love so gracious is that He loved us His sheep when those same sheep disobeyed and hated Him. Depsite all of that, while we were yet sinners Christ died for His sheep. That is grace, that is love.
"The Baptist church as failed in its salvation message because it is not all the truth.
We lead people to the narrow gate, but tragically deceive them about living a consecrated life.
Once Saved Always Saved is a prostitution of the Doctrine of Security of the Believer."
Having grown up in a Baptist church, I agree with this. This is not to say the Baptist church is all wrong -- far from it. But this is an issue which needs to be scripturally corrected in that denomination and any other which teaches it.
"can someone please tell me what sin entered man in the garden?"
Disobedience
"One of the greatest means of deception used by Calvinists is their quick-defense method of suggesting that anyone who disagrees with Calvinism does so from an Arminian position. I wonder if it has even occurred to them that there are more than two ideologies to reference."
Very good point, and one that has often been overlooked.
I do find it interesting that in a metro area nor far from here, there was a Baptist church which went Calvinist. It had started out a huge church of great influence, but gradually dwindled down to the point the people were forced to sell the church property and ended up disbanding. That causes me to wonder of the future of this present move toward Calvinism.
Until we have appropriated the love of God in Christ Jesus, we can neither see God's kingdom nor His glorious attributes. Love is the door. That must be why Paul wrote "...but the greatest of these is love." John wrote, "...he that does not love does not know God, for God is love." For decades Billy Graham effectively spoke to millions about the love of God. The speech of believers is the language of love. Unless it is that, it lacks the power of the Spirit of God for the conversion of souls for God. We can spend long hours talking among ourselves about the glorious attributes of God. What really counts for the increase of His kingdom, however, is the language of love that has an eternal effect on the souls of men. We can not fully comprehend in this finite life the incomprehensible majesties of God. But even a child can understand that God loves him/her. That is why I say that, to humans, the love of God supercedes all of His other great attributes. It is His love that draws us to Him...the fact that He loved us while we were yet sinners. The fact that He offers us forgiveness through His great love gift, Jesus Christ, His Son...our Savior. You may try to convert someone based on the truths of God's sovereignty and majestic omnipotence, but if they haven't come to know Him by accepting the love he has offered, like Nicodemus, they won't be able to comprehend the first thing about the kingdom of God because they can't see it. His love is where the relationship starts, His throne is where it never ends.
Calvinists back up their doctrines with Scriptures...Christians back up their doctrines with Scriptures...both camps refute with Scriptures...and on and on and on and on it goes! There is a huge problem when Calvinists and Christians square off using Scripture verses to prove their points and counterpoints. The fact that there are 40+ "Christian?" denominations in America should tell us that you will not find common ground on such a merry-go-round. The same Scriptures simply mean different things within the context of different camps. One answer to such a dilema lies in deciding on the true nature of God as revealed to all in His Son, Jesus Christ. God is love. Though He is certainly much more than this, all of the other wonderful things He is mean nothing unless...above all else He is LOVE.
Any doctrine or idea or position taken by man that takes away from the fact that He is the lover of the souls of all men, regardless of whether they love Him back or not, comes from a mind that has not comprehended His awesome love and, therefore, does not know Him. Have you?
One of the greatest means of deception used by Calvinists is their quick-defense method of suggesting that anyone who disagrees with Calvinism does so from an Arminian position. I wonder if it has even occurred to them that there are more than two ideologies to reference. True Baptists are neither Arminian nor Calvinist.
A little more research by those in the Calvinist camp would prove most enlightening. It could be that many Calvinists do not know that there is an alternative to the Arminian persuasion and therefore feel they must choose Calvinism.. In fact, after years of personal research including interviews with long-time members of Presbyterian and Reformed Baptist churches, I have never met a layperson who believed in Limited Atonement! Quite the opposite, most were aghast at the idea that their clergymen believed such an awful thing! I challenge anyone who cares to find the truth to ask their friends who are members of Presbyterian or Reformed Baptist churches if they believe God created most humans for the sheer pleasure of sending them to a fiery, tortuous eternity. Don't be surprised if they say, "Of course not!".
If Calvinism (the Doctrines of Grace?) is such a wonderful set of principles, why are so many reformed clergymen hiding them from their congregations?
ok akonda, i do see your point now. I just believe that if one looks in the Bible, it teaches both God's sovereinty (election, predestination, etc), and man's free will(we need to take a step of faith and choose who we will follow). God does not violate our frre will, but yet He is Sovereignt and knows all things. He sees the whole picture; not just bits and pieces. Now wil regard to hypercalvinism, they are totally errant to believe that some are destined to go to hell, and some are predestined to go to heaven. If this were so, then we wouldn't need to have faith, and then Scripture which says that God wishes for all to be saved and come to repentance obviously puts the ball in our court to accept or reject. They would have to be twisting the Scriptures in order for the hypercalvinists to make their view.
Since we are talking about election, God calls everyone.
Isaiah 6:8-10
I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: "Whom shall I send, And who will go for Us?"
Then I said, "Here am I! Send me."
And He said, "Go, and tell this people:
'Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not percieve.'
"Make the heart of this people dull, And their ears heavy,
And shut their eyes; Lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, and return adn be healed."
God is calling to everyone. People is plural meaning many. We know the word is supposed to be preached to everyone one. So God is meaning everyone is being called. There are some who God uses to send forth His word, but all are called. Only a few are chosen. There were other men who came to Jesus to be disciples...but they decieded to walk away: 'It was too difficult." Why do you thing 1500 pastors step down every month? They are called, but they are not able to persevere. God gives us the same gift He gives to them. Don't forget the working in the vineyard. The Bible says to make your election sure. 2 Peter 1:10 Therefore, brethen, be even more dilligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
It keeps says you or people. He is calling to us. If I tell the operator to pass you an important message, do you not believe here if she tells you its from me. If the school secretary calls and says your kid is sick, do you not believe her and rush to the kid's aid. It didn't matter as long as the person was in a watchful eye of your kid. I'm not saying God is sick. I'm saying He can use anyone to deliver the call to us.
can someone please tell me what sin entered man in the garden?
jc4me,
i dont think 5 pointers deny that we have to believe in Christ. God isnt going to repent and believe for us. the bible says God elects and yet at the same time commands us to believe in Christ. paraphrasing john duncan - our ability or inability to obey Gods law has nothing to do with Gods command to obey his laws. we are commanded to obey because of the holy and immutable nature of his law. our ability to obey comes however by His grace.
hyper-calvinist take it to the extreme and say that since it is God who elects we dont have to proselytize / believe etc etc. which btw is wrong. because scripture is clear that God ordained the means of preaching to save the lost.
5 pointers arent hyper-calvinists. cant confuse them both. and there were a lot of godly men who were 5 pointers like the reformers, puritans, spurgeon, old princeton theologians etc. we need to remember that they were experts in their field of scripture, history, greek and hebrew. just to dismiss it as wrong doesnt do any justice. you need to explain why its wrong from the scripture and i am sure they had already thought of it. this whole issue of free will is tricky and i am sure no one has all the answers except the One who made us.
akonda, i think the calvinism you are referring to is 5 point tulip of calvinism. I think the Bible teaches both election, and man's free will. therefoe to teach 5 point calvinism is wrong, but it is equally wrong to teach straight armenianism.
All -
I think good points have been made on this difficult subject; it's certainly not easy to resolve. Although I am nearly always an either/or person, I wonder if the answer isn't a both/and. Let me illustrate with an account we all know.
In Genesis 25-27, we are given the story of Jacob and Esau. In Genesis 25:23, God told Isaac and Rebekah that “the older [Esau] shall serve the younger [Jacob].” Now that was God’s will and a prophetic statement He made about the future. The first act of human will that factors into this prediction is Esau’s selling of his birthright to Jacob – something he freely did in chapter 25. But what did father Isaac try and do? In Genesis 27:4 he’s nearing death and tells Esau to get him some food and then he will bless him – in essence make him ruler over his brother – something God said would not happen. Isaac knew this, but ignored God’s directive. But what happens? Esau goes off, but unbeknown to both Isaac and Esau, Rebekah and Jacob trick Isaac – via their free will acts – so that he ends up giving the blessing to Jacob instead. So God’s will was fulfilled, being freely carried out through the free acts of all those involved.
In other words, both/and and not either/or.
Doctrines of Grace (Calvinism)
http://polemos.net/Doctrines%20of%20Grace%20%20(Calvinism).html
Did you know there’s a controversy?
http://poleblog.polemos.net/2007/08/did-you-know-theres-controversy.html
The fallacy you have is this. God gave man a sound mind to understand sound words. Look up the definition of sound. Sound has a special meaning. Scientist claim to have a sound mind because they can understand mysteries of the world. However, this is not completely true. There are plenty of unsolved puzzles to them. If God is greater than the world, how can man say then that he does not exist. Just because you can see or measure Him doesn’t necessarily negate His existence. You existence does not depend on men validating you. If someone is not alway right how credible is he or her? Scientist are not alway right. How important is your life to you?
scripture is quite clear that the natural man is at enmity with God. it also says that the natural man is dead in his sins. so the questions arises if he is dead in his sins and at enmity with God why would he CHOOSE to love Him. Yes, we have free will but we exercise this free will only in light of knowledge and the true knowledge of God is lacking in the unregenerate. so even if you exercise your free will it would not be according to Gods will and therefore results in sin. scripture never calls the fallen man free. it calls us either slaves of sin or slaves of Christ. your intentions may be good but we as unregenerate men are incapable of pleasing God in anyway. it is like being in a fog unable to see the light. hence the need for regeneration before conversion (repentance and faith). the tree must be good before it bears good fruit. and if the tree is bad it can only produce bad fruit.
scripture is also clear that no one can come to Christ unless the Father draws him to Christ. it is only after God draws one to himself that one repents and believes. both arminianism and calvinsim explain the mode of regneration, repentance and faith in different ways. arminianism says that after God draws us to Him we can choose to believe or not. Calvinism says that after God draws us near to Him, because it is God doing the work we cannot but choose to believe Him. hence the term irresistible grace. God is sovereign and He always gets His way.
When Calvinists say that Christs saving power is limited, they mean that since God already knows those that are His, Christ died only for the elect(saved) rather than everyone. the problem with arminianism is that Christ dies for everyone but He is unable to save those who choose not to believe in Christ. So not only is the death of Christ worthless for some but He is limited in His ability to save those whom he died for.
-contd in post below.
another question is why did you choose to believe when someone else upon hearing the same gospel message doesnt? it is because the Spirit works as He wills. in some He impresses upon them the truths of scripture causing them to believe and in others He doesnt. why He does this no one knows except that some have been chosen before the foundation of the world to be the children of God - the elect. it is only the elect that are saved.
we need to remember we believe in the truths of the bible not because we have persuaded ourselves mentally by exercising our free will to believe but because the Holy spirit opens our eyes to the truths of scripture and we having seen it believe. the natural man doesnt understand the truths because they are spiritual and are discerned only with the power of the Holy Spirit.
Both Calvinism and Arminianism have scripture to back it up. So to call one hogwash without properly studying it is foolish. Both systems dont explain everything and both have problems but imo calvinism is a much better system than arminianism. though our arminian brothers might argue otherwise.
quoting B.B. Warfield - if you conceive of religion in its purity, that is Calvinism.
this, atleast from what i gather, is what i believe is calvinism.
I'll answer these in keeping with traditional Calvinism.
total depravity: the stance that the image of God in man has been erased; that is, man is born a sinner and is, in himself, incapable of seeking after God, understanding His plan for salvation, and responding in any way to God's call upon his life without God intervening and supplying the faith needed.
unconditional election: God chooses who will be saved (the elect) with there being no conditions whatsoever (much like Abraham's covenant); each person's merit plays no factor in God's choice.
limited atonement: to avoid the concept of universal salvation (all will be saved because of Christ's work on the cross), the death of Christ is limited in power and scope to only those whom God elects.
If this hog wash is what Calvinism is, we might as well do whatever. These 3 very conditions violate the Bible. He that cometh to God must believe that He is. You first have faith when you come. The word of God comes and convicts you. It lets you know you need a savior because you have broken His law. When you disobey your parents, you feel a conviction in you heart.
God has given you free will for a reason. YOU can choose to remain outside of His presence if you want. The Bible talks about making a choice for Christ or anti-Christ. The Lord said there would be a great falling away. Men would not put up with sound doctrine. The Pharisees are a good example of Calvinist pastors. You are raising vipers not saints. Please reread your Bibles.
Christ is limited in saving power? What!!! Christ has the power to save anyone that comes to Him for salvation. He is everything we need. Now unless the man is greater than his Creator, then you have not rightly divided the word of truth. You are spouting lies and are no better than pagans or atheist. The Bible says in they limited God in the desert. Pslams 78:41.
2 Peter 1:1-2, But there were false prophet among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you who will secretly bring destructive herecies, even denying the Lord which bought them. And Many will follow their destructive ways and the way of Truth will blasphemed.
Calvinism violates the Law of Non-Contradiction in so many ways. We are Totally Depraved and unable to do anything pleasing before the Lord, but yet the OT and NT show in countless ways that men and women of faith who ARE righteous before the Lord. What about Zacharias and Elizabeth who are the parent of John the Baptist. It says they were RIGHTEOUS AND BLAMELESS before THE LORD! This statement alone contradicts these doctrines. Calvinism IS NOT CHRISTIANITY!
Oh and Let's not forget to mention that John Calvin and several other Reformers murdered Michael Servetus - Burned this man alive at the stake! Oh I realize there will be countless Calvinist that will defend this man's actions - but what does the Lord say about murders - they will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Calvin never once repented over the murder of Michael Servetus and a year later wrote a thesis on justifying his execution! Why would anyone want to follow the doctrine of this man. Oh Let;s not forget Martin Luther a man who once wrote a friend and encouraged him to Sin Boldly so that the grace of Christ would increase. Let's not forget the hatred Luther had towards the Jews and even encouraged their murder. These are wicked and heartless men people! Reformers killed the Anabaptist, they have distorted the doctrine of grace and imputation and not to mention the Atonement. I would suggest people turn from this false doctrine.
KoneWone2 - I'm not surprised to see a scathing review of Geisler's work by one who thinks otherwise; as Dannypoo points out, the back-and-forth's can unfortunately get very nasty. And Dannypoo is also 100% correct on the statement that this debate is *not* something to break faith over as both positions are orthodox.
I do NOT believe the doctrine of election. I DO believe we must be enabled to believe, grace is irresistible, and we will persevere if truly saved.
The Baptist church as failed in its salvation message because it is not all the truth.
We lead people to the narrow gate, but tragically deceive them about living a consecrated life.
Once Saved Always Saved is a prostitution of the Doctrine of Security of the Believer.
We have told people that are saved based on a decision, profession, or what the believe with their mind, rather than a supernatural work of God in regeneration.
Read Jim Eliff's article "The Baptist Church: An Unregenerate Denomination".
He is a Calvinist.
I am a Calvinist hybrid, I guess.
Lets start teaching salvation is God's business, not a membership rite.
I am not Calvanist nor Arminian, however both make some strong points. But I wanted to post to remind everyone, you can be either a Calvanist or Arminian and still be a Christian. As neither violates the essentials of the Christian Faith. http://www.carm.org/doctrine/essentials.htm
I have seen some pretty nasty arguments between people of Calvanistic and Arminian leanings and it is always ridiculous...remember that we are brothers and sisters in Christ if we hold to the essentials of the faith.
"For a detailed discussion on this, see Norman Geisler's book "Chosen but Free"."
Hi schumacr, here is a very thoughtful critique of Norman Geisler's book:
Chosen But Free
©By James M. Harrison
"He is the author of hundreds of articles and dozens of books. Many have found great help in his writings, this author included. Alas, even exceptional intellects are subject to the limitations of humanity. With one Prominent Exception, our race is an unbroken line of fallible beings whose thinking process is marred by personal and ancestral histories, undetected prejudices, and undiscovered blind spots which prevent us from the objectivity that we desire in regard to our intellectual pursuits. This human frailty is more or less obvious according to the individual and the subject matter with which he is dealing. In Dr. Geisler’s case, it is readily apparent that, for him, the doctrine of election in particular, and Calvinism in general, is subject to this frailty. Dr. Geisler’s latest production is entitled, Chosen But Free: A Balanced View of Divine Election (CBF). It does not take long, however, for the theologically literate reader to understand that this particular work is anything but a "balanced" view of election. Beginning with the self-evident contradiction in the title itself, it should be evident to any objective reader that balance was not the aim in its production. Rather, CBF sets out to present its viewpoint, which is simply a form of Arminianism cloaked under another name, as being so obviously correct that the reader must wonder how exegetes and theologians of the stature of John Calvin, John Owen, B.B. Warfield, John Murray, etc., did not see it."
Continued here:
http://www.the-highway.com/free_Harrison.html
I believe Mr. Geisler misrepresents truth in "Chosen But Free" and is wrong in many places throughout the book and it is not truly balanced. I have enjoyed other works of Norman Geisler and they have helped me tremendously but "Chosen But Free" hasn't. I cannot understand how blind Norman Geisler is in this area of Theology??? Baffling. Maybe he just plain hates Reformed Theology or Calvinism? Many do, actually.
For further study purposes:
Reformed Theology
http://www.monergism.com/directory/link_category/Reformed-Theology/
Calvinism
http://www.monergism.com/directory/link_category/Calvinism/
Election
http://www.monergism.com/directory/link_category/Election/
holito8 -
I'll answer these in keeping with traditional Calvinism.
total depravity: the stance that the image of God in man has been erased; that is, man is born a sinner and is, in himself, incapable of seeking after God, understanding His plan for salvation, and responding in any way to God's call upon his life without God intervening and supplying the faith needed.
unconditional election: God chooses who will be saved (the elect) with there being no conditions whatsoever (much like Abraham's covenant); each person's merit plays no factor in God's choice.
limited atonement: to avoid the concept of universal salvation (all will be saved because of Christ's work on the cross), the death of Christ is limited in power and scope to only those whom God elects.
Are performance statistics really relevant?
BTW, If a minority of SBC Baptists are Calvinists, how can the majority be described in contrast?
The five points of Calvinism, also called the doctrines of grace, include total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and perseverance of the saints.
What are these three: total depravity, unconditional election and limited atonement?
I'd love to hear other folks' views/beliefs/opinions here. I hate labels as much as anyone else, but I would describe myself (and I go to a non-denominational church) as a moderate Calvinist. For a detailed discussion on this, see Norman Geisler's book "Chosen but Free".