Clarification appended
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(Photo: New Line Cinema)This undated image provided by New Line Cinema pictures the three wise men from the movie 'The Nativity Story.'
The Archbishop of Canterbury, the spiritual head of the 77 million-strong Anglican Communion, recently dismissed one popular aspect of the Christmas story of the three wise men as “legend.”
Dr. Rowan Williams indicated that Scripture does not describe the magi as commonly depicted in nativity stories and scenes.
“Well Matthew's gospel doesn't tell us that there were three of them, doesn't tell us they were kings, doesn't tell us where they came from, it says they're astrologers, wise men, priests from somewhere outside the Roman Empire. That's all we're really told so, yes, 'the three kings with the one from Africa' - that's legend; it works quite well as legend,” he said in an interview with BBC Radio Five.
He noted there was no evidence of oxen or donkeys – popular characters in nativity scenes – in the stable and that the chances of snow falling around the stable in Bethlehem were “very unlikely.” Additionally, he said he doesn't know if there was a star above where baby Jesus lay. While the gospel of Matthew talks about the rising star and standing still, the Archbishop noted, he said "stars don't behave quite like that."
"There are various scientific theories about what it might have been at around that time and they (wise men) followed that trek; that makes sense to me," he said.
However, affirming some widely held beliefs of the Christmas story, the Archbishop said the detail that almost everyone agrees on is that Jesus’ mother is named Mary and his father, Joseph. Williams also affirmed his belief in the virgin birth and Jesus in a manger, but said the Gospels do not state if Jesus was born in December.
“Christmas is the time it is because it fitted very well with the winter festival,” Williams said in the interview.
The Anglican head explains that about a decade ago he was not too concerned about the literal truth of the doctrine of the virgin birth, but now sees it “much more as dovetailing with the rest of what I believe about the story.”
A recent Barna survey found that 75 percent of Americans said they believe in the gospel narrative of the virgin birth of Jesus Christ literally.
Williams did a literary-critical analysis of traditional Christmas cards and found that most featured a virgin Mary holding baby Jesus with shepherds on one side, the three wise men on the other, and oxen and donkeys surrounding them. The scene is sometimes depicted with snow falling and a bright star rising in the east, according to The Times of London.
The Anglican Archbishop contends that most of the happenings in the popular nativity scene could not take place as it is depicted. But the most important concept to take away from the Christmas story is the belief that God came to earth in human form as part of His plan for salvation.
Williams’ observation of the popular Christmas story is not new. Similar views are taught in the most conservative theological colleges, according to The Times. The Archbishop says his views on the Christmas story and other issues – including homosexuality, which is currently tearing up the Anglican Communion – are based on what the Bible says.
Clarification: Friday, Dec. 21, 2007:
An article on Thursday, Dec. 20, 2007, about Dr. Rowan Williams' comments on the nativity story ambiguously quoted the Archbishop of Canterbury from an interview he had with BBC Radio Five. Williams said the common depiction of one of the wise men being from Africa is a legend. He affirmed that there were magi but said Scripture does not indicate whether there were three of them or that they were kings.
He also affirmed that there was a star above the manger where Jesus lay but noted there are various scientific theories about whether it was a star, a constellation, or such, that the magi followed.
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It takes one with the spirit of the LIVING GOD to understand the truth of the Bible. Bible understanding is not by academic aquisition in the four walls of the university/school but the wall of the heart. The question is this "has the Arch Bishop ever has an encounter with Christ?'Saul later Paul did and he told us as it is in 1st Corinthians 1 Vs19-21
"I'll stick with the word of God and my Catholic faith."
So Revelations isn't part of the Catholic Bible or faith?
Taj,
I am glad that others will be able to read your illogical and poor interpretations of scripture. Most KNOWLEDGABLE students of church history understands that the HISTORICIST interpretation of bible prophecy, PRECEED the SDA church. Your repetative assumption is extremely sad.
One last thing, I have no idea about the temple it's all conjecture just like your 10 representing the EU. I'll stick with the word of God and my Catholic faith. You go ahead and interpret the end times...good luck
Taj,
Go back and read Daniel 7; it says the the little horn was "DIFFERENT" from the previous powers. Once again you interpretation fails you.
I don't NEED to do anything. This Seventh Day Adventist stuff is so ridiculous it isn't even funny. You point to the 10 representing the EU ...how? the Vatican is incorrect but you'll twist it to make it sound correct. As for the Christian Fathers we already discussed this and I encourage people to read our previous postings. I'm done discussing this with you, it's bad enough when the SDAs come to my door and want to suck up my time discussing this ridiculous stuff. I'll stand by what has already been posted. All the best Online4Him....goodbye.
Taj,
So a denial of Jesus as the messiah and renewed animal sacrifces actually proves that a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem becomes the temple of God? This is ludicrous!!!!!!!!
Taj,
The Word of God, the Chruch Fathers, and the Reformers all support the Historicist position. Your position "futurism" is in the minority. You still think that a rebuilt Jewish temple can actually be a temple of "GOD". As I mentioned earlier; how can any re-built temple with renewed animal sacrifices and a disbelief that Jesus is the messiah, be the temple of God? You need to come up with something better than that.
I know it is difficult for you as a Seventh Day Adventist to believe this. You'd rather hold to aspects that don't even make sense. The 10 some how has something to do with the EU, the Vatican represents 4 mountains, even though it was yet to be founded and only sits on 1 hill, ..... I could go on and on but it's so ridiculous
Further confirmation is found in Revelation speaking of the Jewish temple as if it were still operating (11:1), but soon to be trampled by the gentiles, along with the holy city (11:2). Shortly after Nero's reign, the gentiles did indeed invade Jerusalem, trample it, and destroy the temple.
This suggests not only that the beast corresponded to the Roman empire in general and Caesar Nero in particular but also that the book of Revelation itself was written sometime in the early A.D. 60s, during Nero's reign, just before the Jewish War that led to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in A.D. 70.
What Daniel's four beasts have in common is that they are all pagan kingdoms that persecuted and conquered God's people, Israel. John's beast is the same kind of thing—a conquering pagan empire. Since it comes after Daniel's four beasts, Rome is the logical candidate. But it's not a future, "restored Roman Empire." It's the real thing, the pagan Roman Empire of the early centuries. This is confirmed by several lines of evidence.
First, the book of Revelation is explicit in stating that it concerns events that will happen "soon" (1:1, 2:16, 3:11, 22:6, 7, 12, 20). This indicates that the bulk of the events of the book (those that precede the Millennium of Rev. 20:1-10, in which we are now living) should take place shortly after the book was written, likely in the A.D. 60s.
Second, we are told that the number of the beast is 666 and that this is the number of a man's name (13:18). Not coincidentally, the persecuting, pagan Roman Empire was headed in the A.D. 60s by Caesar Nero, whose name happened to add up to 666 in the Hebrew system of letters and numbers. (In Hebrew, "Caesar Nero" = "NRWN QSR" = N 50 + R 200 + W 6 + N 50 + Q 100 + S 60 + R 200 = 666; a variant spelling of the name, NRW QSR, adds up to 616, which some manuscripts have in place of 666).
Third, the seven heads of the beast are identified as seven mountains (17:9). Though this is not certain, these are likely the seven hills on which the city of Rome was built. (Vatican Hill, however, was not one of the seven; it is on the side of the Tiber River opposite the seven.)
Thus there is good evidence that the beast from the sea is the pagan Roman Empire of the first century and, in particular, the emperor at its head. This, again, is like Daniel's four beasts, who were described both as four kings (Dan 7:17) and four kingdoms (cf. Dan. 7:23).
Taj,
It is extremely obvious that you continue to grasp at any insignificant thing that will elevate your false unbiblical religion. Go back and “actually” read Daniel 7 and come up with another entity that fits this prophecy; you cannot. So, let us talk about denominations instead of “proving” your position from the bible; this is nothing more that “misdirection’s” to avoid the biblical text.
BOTTOM LINE: These are the identification marks mentioned in Daniel 7; so, who else can it be? You cannot find another based on these BIBLICAL PASSAGES.
It is well known from Daniel 7 that the antichrist would rise out of the fourth beast (Rome), remain in the midst of the ten horns (Europe), be different from the rest (a political & ecclesiastical power), uproot three kingdoms (Heruli, Vandals, & Ostrogoths), speak great words against the Most High (assume the titles of God), wore out the saints of the Most High (persecuted Christians), thought to change times and laws (tampered with the law of God), and would rule for a time, times, and half of time (1260 years).
GIVE ME ANOTHER ENTITY THAT FITS THIS PROPHECY? Instead of shooting down this obvious interpretation; give me something to replace it with!!!!!!!!!! The nations of Europe “are” kingdoms which ROME was divided into; anyone who knows basic history understands this. Not only do you attempt to re-write history, you also attempt to alter the Word of God. Your church “HAS” assumed the titles of the old Rome and they have always operated from the city of ROME. Go back and read a history book.
Go ahead and talk about “denominations” and secondary issues while I will continue to post “SCRIPTURE” :)
Sorry just flagged myself because I made a typo: It's not that the Word of God contradict itself it is that the person contradicts himself/herself. Just like your interpretations - you stated that the EU represents the 10 horns...what does the EU have 10 of? you stated that the Vatican sits on 4 hills/mountains...no it doesn't it sits on Vatican hill. I guess you are referring to Rome which sits on the opposite side of the river. I mean these statements are not even accurate, but represent a need by the seventh day adventists to point to the Church at the end times. Regardless that the statements aren't true.
One can come on to CP and open any topic regardless of the denomination and notice that there are people finding problems with it.
Online4Him,
Your beliefs are seventh day adventist - Sabbath is on Saturday, the evangelicals are wrong that once they accept Christ they are saved - once saved, always saved.... I agree there are various interpretations of scripture. Thus, there are thousands of different protestant faiths teaching different interpretations.