Updated 08:10 pm.EST, Mon November 23, 2009

Education|Sun, Dec. 23 2007 04:13 PM EST

Half a Million Signatures Sought to Bring Pro-Gay School Bill to Voters

By Ruby Hwang|Christian Post Correspondent

California legislation that will ban grade school textbooks and teachers from including any instruction that "reflects or promotes bias against" homosexuality, transgenders, bisexuals or those with perceived gender issues will take effect next month and opponents are circulating referendum petitions to place the measure before voters.

SB-777 was introduced to the House on May 24 was signed into law by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger on Oct. 14. The bill will affect textbooks and instructional materials for students in kindergarten and grades 1-12 and will change the typical concept of family, conservative groups argue.

“This reverse discrimination is an outright attack on the religious and moral beliefs of California citizens,” says Karen England, executive director of the pro-family group Capitol Resource Institute (CRI).

According to CRI’s new affiliated organization, Capitol Resource Family Impact (CRFI), the traditional family that only features a mom and dad would be “promoting a discriminatory bias” against homosexual couples under SB-777. It would promote “heterosexism” to only show male and female couples without equal time for homosexual, transsexual and transgender “families,” CRFI adds

The conservative group argues, however, that the bill may open up doors to “shocking” policies such as those that have already been implemented in Los Angeles Unified School District regarding transgender students. According to the school district's web site, if a male perceives himself as a female, he must be granted access to female locker rooms and restrooms. Furthermore, if the student wishes to keep his sexual status from his parents, the teachers and administration must refer to the masculine pronoun (him/he) when talking to the parents and use the feminine pronoun (she/her) at school.

“This shocking policy treats parents as the enemy of the transgender student,” CRFI states. “Teachers are expected to abet the student in keeping vital information from parents.”

With SB-777 slated to take affect in January 2008, opponents of the bill are circulating referendum petitions to be signed and requesting the participation of churches. The “Save Our Kids” campaign, which is a project of CRFI, is collecting roughly half a million valid signatures of voters to qualify the referendum for the ballot in June 2008.

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  • Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:53 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Yes, marriage was designed for one man and one woman. Anything else, is outside of God's will.

  • Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    i have difficulty finding unholiness of homosexuality.........lev being eliiminated because of being under a different covenant, and not all prohibitions of themselves were sins, and 1cor and 1tim were erroneously interpretated from"abusers of themselves with mankind to homosexuality, no one having a clear understanding of malakoi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malakoi and arsenokoital, and no one being able to show that romans 1 is not about sins in the commission of same sex acts and no one being able to explain how the words of romans 1 say homosexuality is a sin, and matt 19:11 addresses the word about a man being one flesh with a woman.



    with this degree of uncertainy over scripture it allows for witness of the spirit as to whether it is of god or not.



    homosexuals bond out mutual love, affection, devotion,and trust.... the same as heterosexuals, for a committed shared life together.





    it is the highest form of sexual intimacy when it is an affirmation of a relationship of this spirit under the vows of marriage of couples who say christ is lord.

  • Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:26 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    And I can't understand why you use scripture that condems sin, to justify your/their sin.

  • Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Because homosexuality is not holy. And I do love my neighbor as myself. I expect no more of my neighbors than I expect of myself.

  • Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:41 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    do you not read one thru five.................................when (2) says" now we know that god's judgement is based on truth".......................................is your response that doesnt apply to me, i dont do the very same things.

    i dont understand why you are using this scripture which condemns judgement, to justify your own.

    james 2: 8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself,"[a] you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery,"[b] also said, "Do not murder."[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

    again..................... you have not explained how the spirit of the ssence of homsexuality comes against loving your neighbor as yourself.

  • Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet,
    Exactly!

    "8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism."

    And then you repeat what I just posted.

    So, those who practice sin (such as homosexuals) will recieve their reward.

  • Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    you cannot read romans1 without including romans 2. they are so intimately linked that i question if the writer's intent was ever to have them seperated into 2 chapters.

    1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?
    5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.

    12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

  • Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

    6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

    7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

    8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

    9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

    10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

    11For there is no respect of persons with God.

    12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

    13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

    14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

    15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)


    Romans 2
    verses 12 and 13 are interesting..."12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

    13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified....)

  • Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    And by your own words, cheating is ok.

  • Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    by your own words , you show you cannot be led by spirit and at the same time be led bythe law.

    Romans 7:6
    But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

  • Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:39 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet,
    Then please read the scriptures under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. God's love isn't all "mushy mushy, you can do what you want and it's okay, my grace covers it all, you don't have to change". God is a just God. And God is holy. And marriage between a man and woman is holy. Anything outside of that is unholy.

  • Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:28 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    what does that mean? i have already said.... that by faith, i believe the spirit of christ lives in me.

  • Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:27 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet,
    I've asked 3 times. Why do you refuse to answer my simple question?

  • GMG »
    Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:25 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet -

    I have explained it to you, a number of times, particularly on another post. The only thing we are trying to "convince" you of is the truth of the bible. As long as you believe that the bible can be fit into cultures' expanding views of what is acceptable or not then you will not believe in any absolute truth in God's Word.

    The Spirit convicts of truth to those who belong to God, through Jesus Christ, and are seeking His will diligently. Any other "spirit" is your own willfullness yammering at you due to satan's lies blinding you.

    If you are seeking the truth in God's Word, you will read His Word in context, not in pieces to justify what you want to see.

  • Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:59 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet,
    But you didn't answer my question. Are you a Christian?

  • Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:31 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    my apologies my reediting could be better

    no truth will be explained without the presence of the holy spirit. i never asked you to convince me. i merely asked you to explain your own.understanding................. which you have either refused or been unable.


    isaiah 1: 17 learn to do right!
    Seek justice,
    encourage the oppressed. [a]
    Defend the cause of the fatherless,
    plead the case of the widow.

    18 "Come now, let us reason together,"
    says the LORD.
    "Though your sins are like scarlet,
    they shall be as white as snow;
    though they are red as crimson,
    they shall be like wool.

  • Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:27 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    CMG

    no truth will be explained without the presence of the holy spirit. i never asked you to convince me. i merely asked you to explain your own.................. which you have either refused or been unable.


    isaiah 1: 17 learn to do right!
    Seek justice,
    encourage the oppressed. [a]
    Defend the cause of the fatherless,
    plead the case of the widow.

    18 "Come now, let us reason together,"
    says the LORD.
    "Though your sins are like scarlet,
    they shall be as white as snow;
    though they are red as crimson,
    they shall be like wool.


    isaiah1:

  • Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    This is a bad piece of law for many reasons. It would prohibit any mention of the evils of slavery (instruction which reflects adversely on the white race); war in the former Yugoslavia (instruction reflects adversely on Orthodox Christians, Muslims and/or Catholics) or any other blemish on the history of man.
    If we can't discuss our mistakes we'd better get in line to repeat them.

  • Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    to Feet:

    "if it, to you this proves nothing .....................................then it proves nothing. if you want to believe that anything homosexual is evil for the sake of the law. then fine. that's what you believe. the point is, nothing in scripture says that. and when you are asked to explain how scripture does, you refuse to answer the quesrtions."

    Have you actually read the bible or have you just skimmed it for what is relavant to your argument, how can you believe one part but not another. It makes no sense to me, either you take all of God's word or you take non of God's word. Cherry Picken isn't truthful either to yourself or to others.

  • GMG »
    Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet has said -

    [["scripture that affirms what society becomes able to embrace.

    that's why society has always, and will always lead the church.

    the nature and structure of the church is that is unable to be the tester. it doesnthave societies diverse levels. society......... the culture is the church ................. the church is the culture.

    its interesting that scripture is written so nonspecifically. and it is done so because its purpose is to point to the spirit. and as i said before, the spirit can be expressed thru an infinte number of earthly forms"]]

    Prophet, feet is not a Christian, he's a new ager. Now at least I understand all his esoteric allusions to scripture. We will never convince him of the truth of the Bible as God's Word, because he believes that our heightened awareness gives "new and improved meaning" to the word of God as we become more enlightened.

  • Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Feet, you always talk of Christ as if he was separate from God.
    The Trinity is God Jesus and Spirit, Father,Son, Holy Spirit Jesus said if you see me you the Father. You must understand they are one. Anyone saying Jesus never said what God said is mistaken they are one.

  • Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    feet,
    But you didn't answer my question. Are you a Christian?

  • Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:48 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    I(READ THE PREVIOUS MESSAGE FIRST)

    T WENT FROM VIOLATING ONESELF THRU DEFILING RELATIONS WITH OTHERS TO PEOPLE HAVING A SAME SEX ORIENTATION AND ALL WHO PRACTICE ANAL SEX

    how do the translators of the ninetenth century give themselves the license to make a traansposition to that specificity.


    they gave themselves license because of the prohibition of lev. which was under another covenant( not all the prohibitions of lev were of themselves sins), romans 1 speaks of sins during the commission of same sex relations, there was no clear understanding of the greek words malakoi and arsenokoital, used by paul in the epistles.


    the translation was done by a religious elite, influenced by the homophobia of the times, the stigma of same sex acts being illegal and culturally, homosexuality was being kept in the closet. because of these influences it went unchallenged and untested for 150 years.

    it wasnt until the renaissance of human rights and individualism, and the sexual revolution of the 60's, the religious reformation of the 70's that brought the awareness of the spirit, indiviual bible study and understanding, and the acceptance of individual opinion of the 90's to reverse illegality, and for social acceptance allow for the transposition to be finally tested.


    this testing is effecting a new meaning to the gospel. it brings a new awareness of paul's words of "no longer under the law" , our relationship under the old covenant. and reawakens our understanding of "being under grace" "being led by" and "serving of the spirit" our relationship in christ of the new covenant.

  • Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:45 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    we were created thru the spirit of christ. this provides for what romans says. that we have the capacity to see god's goodness thru what was created. that is how humans progress in their understanding of what is of christ.

    haas spoke out against paying money for penance. he was burned at the stake, one hundred years later luther spoke out about the same thing, and was declared a national hero.

    it had taken one hundred years of verbal discussion and testing, ( a theocratical age), the creation of national boundaries, the diminished power of the pope, along with influence of the holy spirit. the scriptural words that had been there all along. but there essence had to be embraced into daily expression of living.( luther's gesture caused 120,000 anabaptists to rebel against all state authority.) luther's gesture was successful because it had been tested and was able to be received on many levels.

    that has always been the way its been. humans dont take direct instruction from scripture. instead, its scripture that affirms what society becomes able to embrace.

    that's why society has always, and will always lead the church.

    the nature and structure of the church is that is unable to be the tester. it doesnthave societies diverse levels. society......... the culture is the church ................. the church is the culture.

    its interesting that scripture is written so nonspecifically. and it is done so because its purpose is to point to the spirit. and as i said before, the spirit can be expressed thru an infinte number of earthly forms.


    that's what is so flagrantly obvious about the translation of 1cor6:9.

    in the 19th century.....it was translated (king james version) 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, NOR ABUSERS OF THEMSELVES WITH MANKIND..............and retranslated to...................

    the (new king james version)9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor HOMOSEXUALS,[a] nor SODOMITES,

    (continued)

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    feet,
    But you didn't answer my question. Are you a Christian?

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    that's the answer to anyone being of christ.

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    But you didn't answer my question. Are you a Christian?

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    That is a very good chapter. But the Spirit bears witness to me that homosexuality is not pleasing to God. But I see your point. You believe that homosexuals can walk in the Spirit, right?

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:28 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    romans 8:9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    feet,
    Are you, or are you not a Christian?

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:54 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet

    I have answered questions about scriptures that are the foundation of my belief.

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    iREEDIT

    I see no sin, in fellowship, in prayer,and in scripture. ..................................ergo....... that is why i ask the questions, to make an attempt to see god in what you see. my position has been that i see god and christ in homosexuality in the same way that i see THEM in heterosexuality.

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:26 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    i see no sin, in fellowship, in prayer,and in scripture. ..................................ergo....... that is why i ask the questions, to make an attempt to see god in what you see. my position has been that i see god and christ in homosexuality in the same way that i see it in heterosexuality.

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Feet you just can't understand why we need saving can you?
    If you love them you will try to not let them succome to the flesh and the sinful world. Like Jesus said to the woman, You are forgiven. NOW GO AND SIN NO MORE. Jesus did not say, sin all you want now go and party. It is Gods will not their will that should be done.

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    1john3: 21Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. 23And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:07 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet, in answer to your question; I try to "cling" to Gods word as written in the Bible. What do you cling to?

    When will you address scripture and questions?

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    if you want to cling to the understanding that it is a sin, that is your business.

    my point is that in witnessing the lives of homosexuality there is no evidence to show that they given over to any other spirit in their lives any different from those who heterosexuals. that both bond in the same spirit. compared to each other both embrace the fruit of the spirit equally.

    the point being that if they both live of the same spirit of their lives equally, how can the essence of one oreintation be less than another.

    if it, to you this proves nothing .....................................then it proves nothing. if you want to believe that anything homosexual is evil for the sake of the law. then fine. that's what you believe. the point is, nothing in scripture says that. and when you are asked to explain how scripture does, you refuse to answer the quesrtions.

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:45 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Feet,
    You keep asking the same question,"what is the lie, what is the truth in Romans?"

    Homosexuals who want to believe this sin, homosexual sex is not sin, and want to force others to believe the same, is the "lie". The "truth" is heterosexual relations when in the sanctity of marriage, is the "truth" that is what is exchanged for the "lie" statement that is Romans, is my understanding. God gave man seed to plant to create new life (and a place in woman to plant it). man+man=0 woman+woman=0 man+woman=3 in the image of the Trinity that is sacred!.

    God gives us His laws and the free will to obey or disobey, and consequences if we disobey. It is not always easy for any of us we are all sinners but this particular sin (and abortion) are the only one to be forced by law on everyone. Why do homosexuals want to be so mean spirited?? They have always had the right to privacy why not use it, and have the experience private between themselves and God?

    26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
    Seems pretty clear...

    This is mentioned many times in the Bible, in different ways and different books, which gives us clue, its important.

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:53 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    prophet

    why are you unable to answer questions about scriptures that are the foundation of your belief? is it because you do not understand them? then how can yousay they are about homosexuality being a sin?

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:12 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    feet,
    You, yourself, have not proven your point either. You have presented nothing that confirms that homosexuality is acceptable to God.

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:11 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "For this cause will a man leave his mother and father and will cleave to his wife, and they shall be one."
    Now, show me a scripture that supports homosexual unions.

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:09 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

    16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy." 1st Peter 1:15-16

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:07 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    feet,
    So you don't believe in changing? You don't believe that God asks us to live a life of holiness?

    "1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

    2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Romans 12:1-2

    "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

    4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love." Ephesians 1:3-4

    "For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

    8But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;" Titus 1:7-8

  • Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:34 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    God's word says it's a sin, so it's a sin. Romans 1.

    THAT'S WHAT IVE BEEN WANTING YOU TO EXPLAIN.(ROMANS1:24-27) WHAT LIE WAS EXCHANGED FOR WHAT TRUTH AND HOW WAS WHAT CREATED ENTITY THAT WAS WORSHIPPED AND SERVED SO THAT CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS WERE GIVEN OVER TO HOMOSEXUALITY.

    HOMOSEXUALS AS WELL AS HETEROSEXUALS WERE CREATED THRU THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST AND GODS LAWS WERE WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS AND PUT IN BOTH THEIR MINDS. SO BOTH ARE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE GOD'S GOODNESS THRU WHAT WAS CREATED.

    IF YOUR UNDERSTANDING IS CORRECT EVERY PRACTICING HOMOSEXUAL WOULD HAVE TO BE GIVEN OVER TO THE SPIRIT OF DECEIT, DENIAL, AND DELUSION FOR THEM TO LIVE A LIFE OF HOMOSEXUALITY. IS THAT YOUR WITNESS.

    ROMANS 26-27 IS ABOUT INDIVIDUALS BEING GIVEN OVER TO SHAMEBASED LUST (DELUSION, DENIAL AND DECEIT). SHAME BASED LUST IS NOT ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS BUT RELATIONS. WHERE THERE IS SHAMEBASED LUST, THERE CAN BE NO RELATIONSHIPS BECAUSE IN THESE RELATIONS, THE FOCUS AND COMMITMENT IS ON SATIATING THE LUST, LUST ABOUT OBSESSION OF SEXUAL PLEASURE AND SEXUAL OBSESSION.

    HOW DOES ROMANS 1: 24-27 SAY HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN?


    You said "you will recognize them by their fruit...................fruit, being fruit of the spirit." And one of the fruits of the Spirit it self-control. To not be able to control their unnatural, unGodly desires is going against the Spirit. As much as you want, you can't explain sin away. As I've said before, it's not a judgemental thing. God is holy, and those who wish to stand in His presence must be holy. And God wants us to be with Him. So, it's nothing more than God saying "please don't do that, because I want to be with you." Does that sound harsh? Does that sound judgemental?



    MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WE CAN "DO" NOTHING TO MAKE OURSELVES HOLY. PAUL SAYS LIVE HOLY LIVES...............MEANING, MAKE CHOICES THAT FEED THE SPIRIT THAT LIVES IN US RATHER THAN THE SIN NATURE.

    THAT WHICH MAKES US HOLY IS THE SPIRIT THAT LIVES IN US............CHRIST!

    EPHESIANS 2:8- WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE THRU FAITH, THIS IS NOT OF OURSELVES, IT IS A GIFT OF GOD, IT IS NOT BY WORKS(ANYTHING WE CAN CREDIT OURSELVES FOR), LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST.

    HOMOSEXUALITY IS ABOUT BONDING OUT OF MUTUAL RESPECT, LOVE TRUST , AND DEVOTION FOR COMMITMENT.........HOW IS THIS NOT ABOUT SELFCONTROL? HETEROSEXUALS BOND OUT THE SAME SPIRIT, WHOM YOU CREDIT IN DOING SO, HAVE SELF CONTROL.




    LUST OR LOVE..............AFFIRMATION OR SELF LOATHING....... WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH HOMOSEXUALITY OR HETEROSEXUALITY?

    BOTH OF YOU KEEP MAKING ACCUSATIONS, BUT YOU ARE NOT EXPLAINING ANYTHING.

  • GMG »
    Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:43 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    feet -

    God's word says it's a sin, so it's a sin. Romans 1.

  • Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet,
    You said "you will recognize them by their fruit...................fruit, being fruit of the spirit." And one of the fruits of the Spirit it self-control. To not be able to control their unnatural, unGodly desires is going against the Spirit. As much as you want, you can't explain sin away. As I've said before, it's not a judgemental thing. God is holy, and those who wish to stand in His presence must be holy. And God wants us to be with Him. So, it's nothing more than God saying "please don't do that, because I want to be with you." Does that sound harsh? Does that sound judgemental?

  • Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    i
    about homosexuality being a sin. in the 2000 years of man's attempt to stand on the belief it is a sin, i have seen nothing accomplished, but bigotry, phobia, murder, incarceration,indifference to human suffering,and obsession with self righteousness.



    you would think that given the good tree bearing good fruit parable, the fruit that has been harvested from this belief would be sufficient to indicate that it is a bad tree, and that it will never bear good fruit.



    yet the rallying cry for those who are determined to continue to stand on this belief is.................. we just haven't administered the law correctly!

  • Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Regarding SB777~

    Shall the throne of iniquity
    which devises evil by law,
    have fellowship with You? Psalm 94:20

  • Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:43 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    romans 12:2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

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