Gay Couples Enter Unions in New Year

By Nathan Black|Christian Post Reporter

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As the clock struck midnight marking the start of 2008, dozens of gay and lesbian couples stood outside the New Hampshire Statehouse to enter into civil unions.

Beginning this year, civil unions for same-sex couples are legally recognized in New Hampshire. The law was adopted and signed in May 2007.

"We've been together 20 years; we've been waiting for this moment for 20 years; finally the state will recognize us as we are," said Julie Bernier who was joined by partner Joan Andresen.

Organizers of the outdoor ceremony said they checked in 37 gay and lesbian couples for the 11 p.m. event on Monday.

Same-sex "marriage" advocates cheered while no protesters were seen at the Statehouse.

Michael Hein of The Christian Civic League of Maine was the lone opponent who drove 180 miles from Augusta, Maine, and passed out statements denouncing homosexuality. He also attended the event to "report to the people of Maine that this is going on next door," according to The Associated Press.

"Without our vigilance in Maine, (civil unions are) something that could occur as soon as next year," Hein said to AP.

Meanwhile, V. Gene Robinson, Episcopal bishop of New Hampshire, announced that he will marry his same-sex partner in June.

"I always wanted to be a June bride," Robinson recently told an audience at a Florida law school during a lecture series on Sex, Morality and Law.

Robinson caused uproar when he became the first openly gay bishop to be consecrated in 2003. Conservative Anglicans worldwide have denounced the consecration and called for repentance.

New Hampshire became the fourth state - following Vermont, Connecticut and New Jersey - in the nation to allow civil unions when Democratic Gov. John Lynch signed the bill into law last year. The civil unions law gives same-sex couples the same rights, responsibilities and obligations of marriage without calling the union a marriage.

Same-sex "marriage" supporters are expected to push for "full marriage equality - with the word marriage - soon," said state Rep. Jim Splaine, a sponsor of the civil unions bill.

Massachusetts is the only state that allows same-sex "marriage." New Hampshire estimates that as many as 3,500 to 4,000 civil unions will be performed this year.

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YetAnotherTeenageTragedy »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:46 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 1

The Bible wasn't written by God nor was it written by Jesus. The bible was written by men. It has it's strengths and it's discrepancies. You should take in with a grain of salt. In addition, there are thousands of ways to interpret the bible.
jesus4me »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:05 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 2

1 Timothy 4:1
[ The Great Apostasy ] Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1-3 (in Context) 1 Timothy 4 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
2 Timothy 4:2-4 (in Context) 2 Timothy 4 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.

2 Peter 2:1
[ Destructive Doctrines ] But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 2:1-3 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
2 Peter 2:4
[ Doom of False Teachers ] For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
2 Peter 2:3-5 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
2 Peter 2:12
[ Depravity of False Teachers ] But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,
2 Peter 2:11-13 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
2 Peter 2:18
[ Deceptions of False Teachers ] For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
2 Peter 2:17-19 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
Rand503 »

Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:21 am Agree: 1 Disagree: 2

" Our job as Christians is to show love the same way Christ did..... lovingly tell them they are in sin"

No it isn't. Christ said that our job is to love all our neighbors. He didn't say anything about judging them, condemning them, or 'lovingly' tell them that God hates them and will make them burn in hell. There is no lovingly way to hate a person, and when you fight basic rights to be free of discrimination in the workforce or living quarters, you are doing just that.

Or would you rather me go through the several hundred sins in the Bible and see which ones you violate, and then lovingly tell you how wrong you live your life? Oh, I don't think you would want to hear it. Neither do we.
JC »

Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:11 pm Agree: 4 Disagree: 3

Beloved, may I suggest that Maranatha7593 is correct. Part of the reason the homosexual community does not like Christianity is not just because God has deemed it an immoral act, homosexuals wrestle with this on a daily basis and don't need to be reminded. No, I believe that another part of the overall reason is that Christians can be more overwhelmed with "the law" more than "the love" as we have been so commanded. We have a tendency to shove Bible versus down the homosexual community's throat instead of opening our hearts and pouring God's love to these same. I myself am guilty of this.

Does this mean that I condone homosexuality? Of course not. The Word of God is quite clear on this. However, that sin, as with any sin, is between the sinner and God himself. What should I believe that my sin is less than theirs? Why should I believe that my rebellion in some areas is less worse than their rebellion in their areas?

Beloved, our jobs as Christians is not to judge, but to point the way. If we point the way using the law, we will have as much success as Lot did. If we point the way with love, we will have a far greater success rate. That is what people will respond to. That is what they are craving, this inner love that they think that only other people can fulfill, but will only be fulfilled by Jesus Himself.

What would get the better response, somebody who just slams the law down and says "obey or go to Hell"; or somebody who opens their hearts and serves them, as Jesus Himself came to serve us.

"Through our service to others, as Jesus served us, the called of them shall come forth and serve with us."
Prophet »

Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:17 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

kc,
It's a conspiracy, man.
kc95819 »

Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:52 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

dongard, Where did you hear that???
dongard »

Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:29 pm Agree: 4 Disagree: 7

saying that Christians have never harmed or jailed homosexuals is simply not true. Not only have christians in positions of authority persecuted homosexuals, but throughout the christian era uncountable numbers of christian leaders have called for the most severe tortures and deaths of people whose only crime was to engage in a sex act.

Most Christian leaders today do not demand extreme penalties, only because they know that most people would not support it. The desire to imprison gays just because they are gay still runs deep.
amendoza »

Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:10 am Agree: 4 Disagree: 1

maranatha7593:
"Is it a loving thing to lie to them, to tell them that God approves of that form of immorality when God's Word is so clear that He doesn't? God tells us in His Word to speak the truth in love. If we do not speak the truth, we do not love."

Amen maranatha!!! I hate it when people say I hate homosexuals because I tell them that they are in sin. Our job as Christians is to show love the same way Christ did..... lovingly tell them they are in sin (using the law aka 10 commandments) and tell them to repent and trust in Jesus Christ.

God bless,
Anthony
www.bellybutton88.blogspot.com
maranatha7593 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:00 pm Agree: 9 Disagree: 2

iff: " Actually Jesus didn't condemn gay people at all. Only Paul in the NT and the Book of Leviticus in the OT say anything that could come close to being interpreted as having anything to say about gay people."

Jesus continually affirmed the Word of God, including the OT. He did not NEED to condemn homosexuality because He was always addressing Jews who already KNEW the moral law of God. He did not condemn incest, rape, and child molestation either - does that mean He "must have been in favor of" those forms of immorality as well? Of course not! Jesus expressly, specifically addressed God's original plan for man and woman in Matthew 19 and made it clear that plan has not changed.

Paul and the other NT letter writers were addressing GENTILE believers who did not have the foundation of God's moral law in their lives; therefore, they needed that instruction.

You accuse Christians of not "loving" homosexuals. Is it a loving thing to lie to them, to tell them that God approves of that form of immorality when God's Word is so clear that He doesn't? God tells us in His Word to speak the truth in love. If we do not speak the truth, we do not love.
maranatha7593 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:24 pm Agree: 3 Disagree: 2

"Homosexuals should be witnessed to lovingly and kindly with no compromise. Christians have never believed homosexuals should be stoned or harmed in anyway. Just witnessed to, but homosexuals are trying to make law that will force Christian to be silent or jailed for their faith. Taking away parent authority in schools forcing youngsters to embrace this sin."

Well said! You've addressed both sides of the coin here, and done it well. :-)
maranatha7593 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:21 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 0

Quecat: "All of God's MORAL laws contained in the Mosaic covenant, by the way, are repeated in the New Testament. So it's not really all that difficult for us to determine what is moral law and still good for us today, versus what is civil or ceremonial law and therefore limited to Israel as a theocracy in Old Testament time. Of the Ten Commandments of the Mosaic Covenant, for example, all are moral laws, with the exception of one- keeping the Sabbath."

Well said! I really wish more people could grasp this truth.
maranatha7593 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:20 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 0

iff wrote: "Maranatha - Not once have I ever seen you scold a "Christian" who says stuff like that though so in essence you are just as bad as them."

iff, I haven't *seen* anyone "say stuff like that".

Not only have you not corrected "Christians" who made statements not in agreement with God's Word, you yourself have contradicted the Word of God.
Quecat »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:28 pm Agree: 5 Disagree: 1

Regarding stoning sinners of any sort, you won’t find that in the New Testament. However you will find each sin unequivocally condemned as being a sin. God ultimately will judge these behaviors. It is only for we as Christians to warn our fellow man of the destructive path that he may be walking.

(sorry for the delay in part 2 of this post - I'm in Iowa and had to go caucus)
Go Huckabee! :)
Quecat »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:27 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 0

(continued from earlier post)
All of God's MORAL laws contained in the Mosaic covenant, by the way, are repeated in the New Testament. So it's not really all that difficult for us to determine what is moral law and still good for us today, versus what is civil or ceremonial law and therefore limited to Israel as a theocracy in Old Testament time. Of the Ten Commandments of the Mosaic Covenant, for example, all are moral laws, with the exception of one- keeping the Sabbath. Thus all of the "Big Ten" (except the Sabbath) are found in the New Testament. They were not "thrown out" with the coming of Christ. (continued)
star2 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:26 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Quecat - It has been doing the same to me.
Quecat »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:22 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

sorry for the delay in posting the remainder of my reply - the site continues to give me errors upon submission...
star2 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:24 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 1

agentorange:

God says in His Word that He will bless a nation if it obeys His commandments and He will curse a nation if they don't. (Deu 28:1-14 for the blessings and Deu 28:15-68 for the curses)”

God has not changed (Heb13:8). What God calls sin and how He judges sin has not changed. His blessings for obedience has not changed nor has His curses for disobedience changed.

God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha because of their wickedness. He also overthrew or destroyed all the other nations in the OT because of their wickedness but not in the same way.

Every nation since the time of Christ God has brought to nought. Two things they had in common: sin was rampant and they adopted homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle.

God is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance. God will give any nation time to repent from their wickedness before He brings His judgment on them.

God destroyed the old world with a flood because of the wickedness of man. He will destroy this present world with fire because the nations of this world have refused and will refuse to repent (2 Peter 3:7).
star2 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:02 pm Agree: 5 Disagree: 3

agentorange:

What should we do to homosexuals today?

As a society: We should allow homosexuals to live their life. They have a right to education, housing, work, medical care, and etc..

We should deny them the right to marriage, civil unions, and tax breaks. They should be denied the right to foster children or adopt them. Ttheir demands to indoctrinate school children to their aberrant lifestyles should be denied.
star2 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:53 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

agentorange:

What should we do to homosexuals today?

As a Christian: We should love them as defined in 1 Cor 13:4-7 (be kind, patient, forgiving, not arrogant or boastful, not easily provoked to anger, drunkenness, etc). We should tell them that God says homosexuality is a sin as well as adultery, lying, stealing, murder, and etc. . We should tell them of God's love by sharing the gospel with them. We should pray that they hear the gospel and receive Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. We should pray that God will set them free from sin and heal their wouned spirit. We should call them to repentance and godly living.
star2 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:49 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

agentorange:
You said:

“Have you forgotten what God did to Sodom and Gomorrah?’

To me this is mystical, symbolic fantasy with the likes of Posiden controlling the oceans and Zeus controling the heavens/clouds. And only those that think that ‘the fall’, ‘no-way flood’, Jonah in the whale, 2 million Jews leaving Egypt and countless others biblical events as REAL events consider the destruction or fear supposed wrath of some being which we can’t even falsify."

Biblical Archaeologist, Ron Wyatt (now deceased) has found the ruins of Sodom and Gomorrha, Noah's Ark, the Red Sea Crossing where Moses and the approxiamately 2 million Israelites went across, and Mt Sinai. You can read about how he found each and what he found on his website. Here is the link: www.wyattmuseum.com
star2 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:35 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

agentorange;

"kc95819, Would you please take a crack at it and explain how we should deal with gays then? Star and others haven't bothered to reply, could you please?"

I haven't answered because I had other things to today. When I am finished with supper I will respond.
SportinLife »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:22 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

iff72, thank you for your kind words below. I know not everyone here agrees with my point of view, but I hope that I at least express something that they can consider and think about. All of the commenters here, including the ones I disagree with, give me lots to think about, and I'm grateful for that.
ifeelfine72 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:38 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 1

kc98. . . . said:

"Homosexuals should be witnessed to lovingly and kindly with no compromise."

With the "love" shown to gay people on this site no wonder most of them want nothing to do with the Christian community.
ifeelfine72 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:35 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

kc95819 - Thanks for sticking up for maranatha but what I was referring to was his / her silence when people say things like gay people should be stoned, etc. Maranatha's silence is essentially agreement since he / she has so much to say on the topic otherwise.
ifeelfine72 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:33 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 2

AgentOrange - Actually Jesus didn't condemn gay people at all. Only Paul in the NT and the Book of Leviticus in the OT say anything that could come close to being interpreted as having anything to say about gay people.
kc95819 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:15 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

agentorange asked,
"Do we stone them to death as the OT law commands or not? Yes, or no. "
you gave
LEVITICUS 20:13 - ASV: (American Standard Version, 1901 and KJV: (King James Version):
You want a yes or no answer to stoning- those do not mention stoning so I don't know where you come up with the question. No, stoning is an ancient law devised by men its of the fleshly world. When death is mentioned in this manner it may be referring to spiritual death and the ever after, not heaven, but the abyss, death or earthly death from STD"s or probably both. That is why we want to save the lost with witnessing to them the good news, the gospel, the light, asking for Jesus to be Lord of your life and repentance of sin gives ever lasting life. Living in denial of your sin, not believing its a sin does not make your sin not sin, and spiritual death will happen.
Homosexuals should be witnessed to lovingly and kindly with no compromise. Christians have never believed homosexuals should be stoned or harmed in anyway. Just witnessed to, but homosexuals are trying to make law that will force Christian to be silent or jailed for their faith. Taking away parent authority in schools forcing youngsters to embrace this sin.

DO YOU BELIEVE CHRISTIANS SHOULD BE JAILED FOR READING THEIR BIBLES OR WITNESSING OR BELIEVING HOMOSEXUALITY IS WRONG? YES OR NO?
Quecat »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:59 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 1

Leviticus contains laws which were given to distinguish the practices of God's people Israel from the pagan practices of the surrounding nations. As Christians we don't believe we have to keep these laws, because they were part of the Mosaic Covenant.
This was a limited covenant, made by God with the Jewish people before the coming of Christ. In fact, the term "old testament" means "old covenant," and refers to the "old" Mosaic Covenant which ended with Christ. The Mosaic Covenant was limited to Old Testament times because it was conditional on Israel's obedience. This covenant was set aside when God formed the New Covenant, based on the death of Jesus Christ.
Because the regulations of Leviticus were part of the Mosaic Covenant, they are not binding for the Christian today. On the other hand, the verse which immediately precedes Leviticus 19:19 contains the moral law to "love your neighbor as yourself," and it is just as binding today as when it was given in the Mosaic Covenant! In other words, as Christians living in the 20th century, we should definitely feel guilty if we snub or wrong our neighbors, but we don't have to feel guilty if we wear a tee shirt made of cotton/polyester blend! Does this mean that we can pick and choose which biblical laws we want to obey and forget about the rest? No, of course not! Leviticus 19:18 is a moral law and God has never done away with, or changed any of His moral standards and principles that are contained in the Mosaic Covenant. God's moral standards never change! It was the civil and ceremonial aspects of the Mosaic Covenant that ended with Christ. In order to obey God's command to "rightly divide the Word of truth" we must always distinguish between God's moral laws based on eternal principles and the civil and ceremonial laws associated with conditional covenants. This is all part of properly comprehending the biblical covenants. (continued)
agentorange »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:33 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 0

"agentorange,
Would you please give me the OT scripture where this is?"

kc95819, Why oh why must I know the bible better than those that claim to adhere to its very laws?

LEVITICUS 20:13 - ASV: (American Standard Version, 1901) "And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

KJV: (King James Version): "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

and don't give me any sort of its mis translated nonsense, jesus condems gays nearly as much but i don't recall if he called for their death or to persicute and punish them.

The same great 'stonning to death' penalty is called for many things in OT laws. like for kids that defy their parents, a rapist, wizards, witches, unbelivers, people who work on the sabbath, adulterers, and so on.... it's horrid how barbaric the very texts are the precede the bible and naturally churchs don't bother to cover such things in classes.

many passges in the OT regarding penalties and justice make it quite clear to 'put the sword to them' or 'let their blood be upon' them type of rhetoric.

Now that you know what it says and the laws regarding it, do you stone them to death like all the rest it calls for, or not? and please elaborate on why, b/c i find those that love to qoute from the OT regarding gods wrath and such (Maranatha this means you) that when it comes time to define the punishments that coincide with the very same chapters from the OT they usually don't bother to reply.
kc95819 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:10 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

agentorange,
Would you please give me the OT scripture where this is?

"Do we stone them to death as the OT law commands or not? Yes, or no. "
agentorange »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:49 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

kc95819,

Would you please take a crack at it and explain how we should deal with gays then? Star and others haven't bothered to reply, could you please?

Do we stone them to death as the OT law commands or not? Yes, or no.
kc95819 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:27 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 2

agentorange, OT- NT it is addressed in both. Why not read and reread study with many translations you will get the picture.
kc95819 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:17 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

ifeelfine72 said,
"Maranatha - Not once have I ever seen you scold a "Christian" who says stuff like that though so in essence you are just as bad as them. "

WHAT does that have to do with anything? I am sure it is some kind of PC jargin. Are you trying to say two wrongs make a right or you can say anything you want as long as you follow it up with Christian bashing? Like race baiting Christian baiting is ugly.
agentorange »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:17 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 2

star2-

“They are forcing their aberrant behavior on everyone”

Star2, this is why I asked maranatha7593, how she would prefer we should deal with such things. According to the OT laws, gays are to be STONED TO DEATH. So Star2, since marantha7593 didn’t bother to reply would you please. I noticed that you later attribute your reasoning against gays based on the OT, so I would like to hear your response on what punishment you think they should receive by society and us. Thanks

“Sanctioning homosexuality by lawmakers and the increasing numbers who practice it will only bring the wrath of God on our nation”

How so? How does what 2 people that engage in their own private matters affect you, your family or the nation at large, even indirectly? It’s not like they are going If ‘queer eye for the straight guy’ is on, change the channel.

“Have you forgotten what God did to Sodom and Gomorrah?’

To me this is mystical, symbolic fantasy with the likes of Posiden controlling the oceans and Zeus controling the heavens/clouds. And only those that think that ‘the fall’, ‘no-way flood’, Jonah in the whale, 2 million Jews leaving Egypt and countless others biblical events as REAL events consider the destruction or fear supposed wrath of some being which we can’t even falsify.

Have you forgotten the incest that followed the destruction of Sodom between Lot and his very own daughters?

Have you forgotten the sojourners in Gehena that when asked to ‘know him’ the husband handed over his wife to be raped and ravaged by men and then the following morning proceeded by dicing her body into 12 pieces and spreading her throughout Israel?

“God says in His Word that He will bless a nation if it obeys His commandments and He will curse a nation if they don't. (Deu 28:1-14 for the blessings and Deu 28:15-68 for the curses)”

Well, why the heck are so many countries and nations that don’t follow Christ even around then? Why are Japan, Taiwan, China, Singapore, South Korea, and so on as successful as they are then? Why are many European countries that have growing atheistic and Muslim populations still successful at all? Shouldn’t your god be smiting them left and right?
kc95819 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:10 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 2

Feet,
You keep asking the same question,"what is the lie, what is the truth in Romans?"

Homosexuals who want to believe this sin, homosexual sex is not sin, and want to force others to believe the same, is the "lie". The "truth" is heterosexual relations when in the sanctity of marriage, is the "truth" that is what is exchanged for the "lie" statement that is Romans, is my understanding. God gave man seed to plant to create new life (and a place in woman to plant it). man+man=0 woman+woman=0 man+woman=3 in the image of the Trinity that is sacred!.

God gives us His laws and the free will to obey or disobey, and consequences if we disobey. It is not always easy for any of us we are all sinners but this particular sin (and abortion) are the only one to be forced by law on everyone. Why do homosexuals want to be so mean spirited?? They have always had the right to privacy why not use it, and have the experience private between themselves and God?

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Seems pretty clear...

This is mentioned many times in the Bible, in different ways and different books, which gives us clue, its important.
ifeelfine72 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:50 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Maranatha - Not once have I ever seen you scold a "Christian" who says stuff like that though so in essence you are just as bad as them.
ifeelfine72 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:45 am Agree: 1 Disagree: 2

Here is what SportinLife said:

"And I'll say my piece again: Some of you WANT God to punish gay and lesbian people. You insist on it. And you will be bitter and disappointed and angry if he chooses instead to show mercy.

That attitude doesn't come from Jesus, and it doesn't come from the bible. You need to ask yourselves where it comes from, understand it, and fight it. It is poisoning you, and it is threatening to poison American christianity. "

You really get to the heart of the matter. I wish I was as eloquent as you - you've said basically what I've been wanting to say but couldn't put into words!
Quecat »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:08 am Agree: 3 Disagree: 0

Sin is sin. There is no sugar coating it.
"... the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other...And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men ..."
These things are defined by the bible as sin. God says he hates sin.
It doesn't matter how many false teachers that you may gather to yourself to tickle your itching ears and tell you what you WANT to hear. It doesn't matter if a so-called christian fellowship calls itself "open and affirming" - false doctrine is false doctrine and leads only to one destination.
It doesn't matter that you think to yourself "my god is a god of love and he wouldn't comdemn me for following my heart". Jer 17:9 says "The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
Truth is not relative, it is absolute. God's word is truth.
I am not here to tell you that "I say you are sinful" - I am here to tell you that God's word says that what you are doing is sinful. Unrepented sin leads to destruction.
Same goes for the liar, the thieves, the murderers, the adulterers, the drunkards, the covetous.
Gal 5:21 "...they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. "
Chris333 »

Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:16 am Agree: 2 Disagree: 0

SportinLife,

You are driving the whole "punish" deal into the ground, it is quite clear that marantha does not want ANYONE to be punished, so the best thing for you to do is just let it be. From the Christian perspective, anyone who follows Christ will not want gay/lesbian/and all other sinners to be "condemned" however we do want them to have true lives and relationships with God, and to repent of their sins. When Christians pray they do not say, "Dear Father please wipe out the gays and lesbians", real Christians say, "Dear Father please forgive the sinners and show them Your mercy, open their eyes and their minds and change their hearts" That is it, maybe some so-called Christians do as you say, but that is not what Christ did.

There is one thing though, sometimes difficulty in life will change a person for the better, we do not pray, "Dear Father please make everyone's life as pleasant as possible, even if they end up going to hell", rather we are truly concerned for the wellbeing of all people, even our enemies. That is it, Christians do not hate, we don't call on God to wipe out people, that is the whole story. But I am sure your response is going to be, "But don't you want God to punish gay and lesbian people?" or, "but some Christians do say that!" No to the first and the second has been dealt with in this comment.
maranatha7593 »

Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:39 pm Agree: 4 Disagree: 1

If it were not for God's mercy, we could not see our need for Him, our need to be forgiven, our need to be cleansed of sin. If it were not for His mercy, we would not be able to experience His love, His forgiveness, His grace, His truth, His wisdom, His peace. If it were not for His mercy, we would all stumble through life in spiritual darkness.
maranatha7593 »

Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:37 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Note: There is no evidence that anyone has prayed for God's judgment to fall on anyone.
maranatha7593 »

Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:35 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

I pray for God's mercy, period.
SportinLife »

Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:29 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 3

Do you pray to God and ask him to show mercy to gay and lesbian people, maranatha? Even to unrepentant ones? Or do you pray and tell him that He'd better wipe them all out, or else He "would owe an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah"?
maranatha7593 »

Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 1

That's your opinion, SportinLife. It's important to realize that the person who said that was not attempting to usurp God's place at all but was simply commenting on the consistency of His character. I believe I've already said I pray for God's mercy on our land. He says that if we humble ourselves, pray, seek His face, and turn from our wicked ways, He will hear from Heaven, will forgive our sin, and will heal our land. I am convinced it is His faithful remnant who are the reason we haven't already seen His judgment in greater measure than what's already occurred.
SportinLife »

Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:17 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

"...if God did not punish America, He would owe Sodom and Gomorrah an apology."

That is the quote I'm referring to. Whoever said this, and whoever believes it, does not worship God, but rather usurps His place.
maranatha7593 »

Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:13 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

The basis of our country: http://dutyisours.com/founding.htm
maranatha7593 »

Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:11 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

SportinLife, it doesn't matter how often you say it, It's simply not true. I have no desire to see God punish anyone. He says in His Word that He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. I am in 100% agreement with that.
maranatha7593 »

Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:10 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

separation, I've never claimed to be a god; I know full well I'm not God, that I was created by Him. His Word is true and will endure forever, even when this world is but a memory.
SportinLife »

Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:09 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 0

And I'll say my piece again: Some of you WANT God to punish gay and lesbian people. You insist on it. And you will be bitter and disappointed and angry if he chooses instead to show mercy.

That attitude doesn't come from Jesus, and it doesn't come from the bible. You need to ask yourselves where it comes from, understand it, and fight it. It is poisoning you, and it is threatening to poison American christianity.
maranatha7593 »

Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:09 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

separation, if you knew my friends who were homosexuals for years, were delivered from it, and have been happily married for about 20 years, parents for about 15 years, you would know it is indeed possible for people to change. That's what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about: people being delivered from sin and living a whole new life of love, peace, and joy. You might be interested in this:

http://www.venusmagazine.org/index.html
separationofchurch_state »

Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:08 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

Just 'cause you quote the black book does not make you a God. Not in anyone's eyes. I hate to say that when you die you're simply dead. Nothing more. Spirituality is about what you do in life. Not what you plan on receiving after death.

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