The President of Afghanistan has been told by the country’s Islamic council to stop foreign aid groups from converting locals to Christianity.
The influential council of Islamic clergy and ulema (scholars) made the warning in a statement during a meeting with President Hamid Karzai on Friday in which it also called for the reintroduction of public executions, which have not taken place since the fall of the Taliban in 2001.
"The council is concerned about the activities of some ... missionary and atheistic organs and considers such acts against Islamic sharia (law), the constitution, and political stability," the council said in its statement.
"If not prevented, God forbid, catastrophe will emerge, which will not only destabilize the country, but the region and the world."
Ahmad Ali Jebrayeli, a member of the council and also a member of parliament, said that reliable sources had told him of Christian missionaries using offices in Kabul and in the provinces as bases from which to convert the local population.
He also alleged that the missionaries are being supported by NGOs.
"Some NGOs are encouraging them (to convert), give them books (Bibles) and promise to send them abroad," he told Reuters on Saturday.
Missionary work in Afghanistan came under fire in 2007 when a group of 23 South Korean missionaries were kidnapped and held hostage by the Taliban, who accused them of converting Muslim Afghans to Christianity. They were later released, but not before two from the group were murdered.
Some Muslims who hold onto a strict interpretation of the Koran believe that conversion to another faith from Islam is apostasy and therefore punishable by death.
In 2006, Pope Benedict appealed for clemency and a number of Western leaders protested over the case made by an Afghan court against Abdul Rahman over his conversion to Christianity. The case was later dropped amid international clamor and widespread protests after the court ruled that Rahman was mentally ill.
A number of foreign aid groups and charities operating in Afghanistan are supported by or partnered with Christian organizations. They make clear, however, that their remit is restricted to providing aid and practical support, and not to proselytize.
RSS
This is good news! All the christian missionaries in any country should be deported or killed.
For Christians, Muslims are funny people. They said Muhammad is their prophet and is a perfect human being. But why oh why does every Muslim after their prayer (salat) always plead to their God Allah to give Muhammad the murdering paedophile the high place in his grave, a position that was promised to Muhammad during his lifetime.
Please check out this verse from Sahih Bukhari, and I guarantee you the translation is perfect
Allahumma rabba hazihi ad-da'wah at-tammah wa as-salati al-qa;imah, ati Muhammadan al-wasilah wa al-fadhilah wab'athhu maqaman mahmudan allzi wa'adtah (Sahih Bukhari)
Why would anybody want to convert to Islamism when Muhammad himself cannot get to this good position in his grave? Certainly very funny.
Muhammad himself is just another dead people and is going to answer to God about his actions
aritonang
You have just lost the dignity of being a debater by using abusive and confrontational language against The Last Messenger Prophet of Almighty The-God. That will be sufficient to take your sleep of the night and peace of your mind. Certainly you would get enraged and you will reach to your extremes because your devil would take you there.
The only way out for you is to repent in the court of Almighty The-God and become the worshipper of The-God of Jesus Christ if you may understand.
For Christians, Muslims are funny people. They said Muhammad is their prophet and is a perfect human being. But why oh why does every Muslim after their prayer (salat) always plead to their God Allah to give Muhammad the high place in his grave, a position that was promised to Muhammad during his lifetime.
Please check out this verse from Sahih Bukhari, and I guarantee you the translation is perfect
Allahumma rabba hazihi ad-da'wah at-tammah wa as-salati al-qa;imah, ati Muhammadan al-wasilah wa al-fadhilah wab'athhu maqaman mahmudan allzi wa'adtah (Sahih Bukhari)
Why would anybody want to convert to Islamism when Muhammad himself cannot get to this good position in his grave? Certainly very funny.
Muhammad himself is just another dead people and is going to answer to God about his actions
jesus4me
I love Jews, Christians and Muslims alike but certainly not discriminate against anyone who may not be of my category. You being a conservative christian, do not need to subjugate, harass and terrorise Muslims because they believe in One-God.
Today, more christians are returning to the religion of God because Islam / Shalom is what Almighty The-God seeks from humankind and Jinnkind. Among the thousands of American Christians who embrace Islam, they become closer to Almighty The-God by keeping their conviction about all the Messengers including Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him).
Brian Morrow, a former Christian, converted to Islam in late August 2007. He said that in Islam there is no governing body except God, meaning no one can condemn, judge or punish another for actions if they do not infringe on the rights of others-08.
"All throughout high school I had plenty of good friends that were followers of Islam," said Brian Morrow, a freshman open preference major. "I truly believe that it is the correct way of life and it makes the most sense to me"-08.
"It turns out that Islam had always agreed with what I believed as a Christian," Morrow said. "I always believed that Jesus was God's messenger rather than God in the flesh and that none other should be placed equal to God. Also, in July of last year I stopped eating pork. I figured God didn't want the Hebrews to consume this for some reason. Then I stopped getting sick, lost weight and felt way livelier" -08.
"Islam truly is a beautiful way of life despite the slandering on television," Morrow said. "After I (converted), I found out that there were more followers of Islam in the world than Catholics and our numbers are rapidly growing. Islam is the world's second largest religion, and I'm proud to say that I am a part of it"-08.
"The number one difficulty that I have is the Islam-phobia that has been pumped through the media for almost half a decade," Morrow said. "Myself, along with nearly everybody else in this country, was completely narrow minded with what Muslims believe and just went along with the news network's hate speech" -08.
You will find sporadic Muslim's conversion to Christianity or atheism, they do so to get attraction and benefits from the glitter of western society. But Christians converting to Islam get trust of Almighty The-God and heaven in the Day of Judgement.
jesus4me
I am always smily but serious when talking about Lord The-God. If you like a smiling icon, I would fulfil your wish. You did not respond to my comments "Wake Up John, use some common sense from my last postings of Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:40 pm".
You be conservative but do not use the Goggles of radical conservatism when dealing with matter of Almighty The-God. I as a monotheist believer recognise all the Messengers and Prophets of Almighty The-God. Do not mistreat me because I worship One-God; The-God of Adam and Abraham.
your jewish Rabbi friends are probably not Orhtodox Jewish Rabbi's, but those who are liberal in nature. They may very well misinterpret the Torah, Law, and the Prophets just like there are liberal Christians who misinterpret the Old/New Testaments to suit modern times. I am a conservative, orthodox born again Christian, and I see Jesus Christ predicted all throughout the Old Testament. He(Jesus) is the fulfillment of the Law.
Christians do not ignore the Old Testament. Jesus Christ the Messiah - God's Only Son IS the fullfillment of the Old Testament Law. He is the Lamb of God that was slain for the sins of the world. It is in His prescious Blood that was shed for you and me that there is life and a true relationship with Almighty God Yahweh.
erroneous statements khanson? You follow a book that was invented by Mohammad in the 7th century AD, and yet you say the New Testament is full of human error? Repent therefore, and give your life to Jesus the Christ, that you may enjoy eternal life with God the Father.
p.s. smile when you post next time.
jesus4me
Elohim refers to single deity of Almighty The-God. Ask any of my fellow Jewish brother Rabbi, he will answer you politely but categorically.
Yahweh is the name of Almighty The-God, categorically not of Messiah The Jesus.
Wake Up John, use some common sense from my last postings of Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:40 pm
jesus4me
Thou shall reform yourself and do not be repeatedly apologetic.
There are three major types of erroneous statements in the New Testament which are considered here as theological blunders.
The first and most erroneous statements in the New Testament are those which blaspheme Almighty The-God in His Almighty’s authority as The-Deity by affiliating Him with man made deities (Shirk). Christians make the statue of Jesus Christ and worship the Statue instead of Almighty The-God. Christians ignore the commands of Old Testament that
"Do not have any other gods before Me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth" [The Bible: Old Testament (Exodus 20: 2 – 3)].
"You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God…" [The Bible: Old Testament (Deuteronomy 5: 7–29)].
The Christians who do not follow such biblical commands from the Old Testament are not Christians but polytheist destined to become the fuel of Hellfire.
Shirk is the Islamic concept of the sin of polytheism specifically, but in a more general way refers to serving anything other than one God. It is the vice which is opposed to the virtue of Monotheism (Tauheed).
khanson, I don't believe in 3 different god's when I say I believe in the Trinity. I'll put it as simple for you as possible in human terms; when God said in Genesis let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, He made man as 1) body, 2) soul (i.e. mind, emotions, your conscience, etc), and 3) spirit. Now I wouldn't say there are 3 "men" walking around when I see one man, because all men and women are created with a body, a soul, and a spirit.
In a similar manner, although not the same, God is ONE GOD, but composed of three different persons. He is God, the Father, God the Son (the Word that was made flesh), and God the Holy Spirit referred to in Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1: 26. khanson, there are many more Scriptures in the Old Testament Law ad Prophets (Torah, Pentateuch, and the Prophets), as well as the Gospels, and the Epistles in the New Testament; ad lastly the Book of Revelation which will prove that God set His Son Jesus Christ to redeem the world of sin. If you are truly honest with what you claim to believe, then you will investigate this for yourself. I have no doubt based on the Old and the New Testament that Jesus Christ is Deity (meaning part of the Triune Godhead). This is why I asked you if you knew what the word Elohim meant, because Elohim is a plural for God in Hebrew. Just like when Jesus used words like Yahweh to refer to Himself in the New Testament as God as well. See khanson, it is not the Old and New Testament that have a problem; it is you my friend. I do not follow Paul, or anyone else But God the Father the One and Only God Creator of Heaven and Earth, but I do this thru His plan of Redemption which is His Son Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit of God drew me to Jesus Christ as the bridge to God. See, the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ all point to the Father God.
khanson, you can continue to post your remarks with the angry, bitter face you post with, but the fact remains. Jesus Christ, the Son of God is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to God the Father except thru Him. Also, Elohim is plural. Read up on your Jewish Theology. Have a nice day, and p.s. try not to be so bitter and angry all the time.
jesus4me
Every human born has been already planned and created by The-God. The time frame of each human creation is not known to humans except what mentioned in divine text.
jesus4me
Elohim is not plural because The-God cannot be plural but single. Almighty The-God is supreme and that is why His Almighty often refers to Himself as "WE". This is indicative of Him being Most powerful. Creative in His Almighty's own image means giving behavioural attributes like Mercy, love, reaction etcso that human finds easy to understand The-God. It does not mean that every man would be like god. God is ONE and only He is The-Deity.
Almighty The-God is not person and no human could ever know what Almighty The-God looks like until a person dies in correct belief and then finds an opportunity for an audience with The-God. Those who worship idols and worship humans as god, they would never get an opportunity to see Almighty The-God.
In Addition, in the Gospels, why would the Apostle John who walked with Jesus make mention of Jesus being in the beginning of Creation??????????
John 1 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
John 1
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.
khanson, I don't believe in 3 different god's when I say I believe in the Trinity. I'll put it as simple for you as possible in human terms; when God said in Genesis let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, He made man as 1) body, 2) soul (i.e. mind, emotions, your conscience, etc), and 3) spirit. Now I wouldn't say there are 3 "men" walking around when I see one man, because all men and women are created with a body, a soul, and a spirit.
In a similar manner, although not the same, God is ONE GOD, but composed of three different persons. He is God, the Father, God the Son (the Word that was made flesh), and God the Holy Spirit referred to in Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1: 26. khanson, there are many more Scriptures in the Old Testament Law ad Prophets (Torah, Pentateuch, and the Prophets), as well as the Gospels, and the Epistles in the New Testament; ad lastly the Book of Revelation which will prove that God set His Son Jesus Christ to redeem the world of sin. If you are truly honest with what you claim to believe, then you will investigate this for yourself. I have no doubt based on the Old and the New Testament that Jesus Christ is Deity (meaning part of the Triune Godhead). This is why I asked you if you knew what the word Elohim meant, because Elohim is a plural for God in Hebrew. Just like when Jesus used words like Yahweh to refer to Himself in the New Testament as God as well. See khanson, it is not the Old and New Testament that have a problem; it is you my friend. I do not follow Paul, or anyone else But God the Father the One and Only God Creator of Heaven and Earth, but I do this thru His plan of Redemption which is His Son Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit of God drew me to Jesus Christ as the bridge to God. See, the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ all point to the Father God.
Genesis 1:1 and 26
Genesis 1 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
Genesis 1
The History of Creation
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
In Hebrew:
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all[b] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
khanson, if God is not One God part of a Trinity, then why is there mention of the Spirit of God in Genesis 1:1, and mention of the word "US" in 1:26??????????
khanson, if Elohim is a not plural in the Hebrew for God, ten why did God say: "“Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness" in Genesis 1:26.
jesus4me
You have put credible counter arguments but it does not allow "Christian world" to escape from their responsibility. All evils got birth right under the nose of Christianity because oppression and slavery to clergy led millions away from the religion.
If any credible Christian work is being done today, it is that of Father Myung Sun Moon who calls upon all the God-worshippers together to unite against non-religious forces who are corrupting the earth with homosexulaity, drunkurdness, abortions, drug addicitons and hatred against human.
You are not serving humankind but you are propagating failed doctrine of Trinity: the by product St Paul who opposed Jesus Christ until he acended to heavens.
khanson wrote:
"If it was not of bad christianity, secularism would not have ruled the west. Unfortunately you guys are still prasing your erroneous doctrine. Wake up and stick to the teachings of Jesus Christ for the-God's sake. If you follow in your actual life the teachings of Jesus Christ, you would reform atheist west. Unfortunately, you do only lip service; Jesus is god, god is Jesus, god is holy ghost and holy ghost is Jesus and the lip service does not stop."
you say we offer only lip service and don't live like Jesus did. tell me kahnson, do you even know me or john 14-6? No, you don't and because you don't you judge improperly by your own words. Not only do you judge improperly, but you are bearing false witness against Jesus Christ as Deity, and you are bearing false witness against us, as well as the whole of Christianity by saying we are the cause of Darwinism, Secularism, and Communism. Furthermore, you imply that we are not loving of others by what you say, but the most loving thing in the world is what we have been telling you over and over. Repent, and give your heart to God thru Jesus Christ His Son. If you fail to do so, it is you and only you who will give an account to God the Creator for your willful rejection of God's Only Way to Him. We will continue to pray for you.
khanson wrote:
"Let us see what Christianity has given to humankind. The Christian clergy oppressed its followers which gave rise to anti religion movements in the west. Christianity evolved in to communism, socialism, Darwinism, Nazism, Capitalism and lately Secularism. Frustrated with Christianity, they evolved into present phase by killing millions not only killing their own but killing Muslims also in the millions."
why don't you do a little study up on history khanson. do a little history IN CONTEXT; not out of context. you accuse Cristianity being the fuel that fired Darwinism, communism and secularism to name a few. You are wrong, and you know it like everyone else on this board knows it. You are twisting history like the modern day revisionists do in our defiled public school system.
1) First of all, Darwinism is a philosophy devoid of God the Creator and Jesus Christ. It was started as a theory by Darwin himself and has been disproven over and over again by many scientists, biologists, and Born Again Christia Creation Scientists alike. Darwinism is nothing more than man saying they evolved out of nothing with no purpose or meaning in the universe; that we are nothing but mass and will die one day into nothingness. The Bible teaches otherwise - 2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:7-9 (in Context). In otherwords, when one dies, one will either spend eternity with their Creator God, or be separated from Him eternally.
2) Secondly, Communism is devoid of a Creator God because it is based on humanism which is very similar to Darwinism, and cannot be linked to true biblical Christianity in any way. Communism in and of itself has killed over 100 million+ people and counting (go check out the ststatistics if you think I'm giving you the wrong numbers). Furthermore, Communism teaches that the "State, and Government" is your "god". What did Stalin say?????? "religion is the opiate of the masses". This is obviously against true biblical Christianity when man wants to exalt himself above Almighty God the Creator.
3) Third and lastly, you mentioned the secularism came out of Christianity. You are wrong. Secularism has it's roots in humanism, moral relativism, and atheism. For you to say that those three things have similarity from Christianity is just as absurd as Abudinajab telling his country of Iran, others in the Muslim world, and the Europeans as well as the UN that the Jewish Holocost by the Satanist Regime of Hitler (which if you study your history will tell you that the Arabs helped Hitler in his plans) never existed. Your accusations are absurd, they are a twisted for of a fake reality, and you may believ what you want, but history tells us otherwise.
john14-6
jesus4me
Muslims all over the world have peace with Almighty The-God who created. But Muslims are at odds with those who deny The-God and worship idols like Monkey, Elephant, Carved Stones and whatever they could find that did not exclude human idols and Satanic idols.
Muslims are very protective of their faith because it stands on solid foundation: The-God. To protect their belief and the book of God, they give their sacrifices of wealth and life. As long as their intentions are correct, defending Islam with their efforts is appreciated.
However, radical Muslims do exist who kill not only non-Muslims but also their own whom they consider hypocrites. "Killing any innocent human is like killing whole of humankind" (The-Qur'an). We must oppose them, we must tame them and some are fighting a battle against them. While fighting against them, we should not forget to tame them.
Let us see what Christianity has given to humankind. The Christian clergy oppressed its followers which gave rise to anti religion movements in the west. Christianity evolved in to communism, socialism, Darwinism, Nazism, Capitalism and lately Secularism. Frustrated with Christianity, they evolved into present phase by killing millions not only killing their own but killing Muslims also in the millions.
If it was not of bad christianity, secularism would not have ruled the west. Unfortunately you guys are still prasing your erroneous doctrine. Wake up and stick to the teachings of Jesus Christ for the-God's sake. If you follow in your actual life the teachings of Jesus Christ, you would reform atheist west. Unfortunately, you do only lip service; Jesus is god, god is Jesus, god is holy ghost and holy ghost is Jesus and the lip service does not stop.
If you love Jesus Christ: Follow His Advice literally, live his life you children of Adam.
john 14-6:
very well said, and very well pointing to the facts. The left wing loonie liberals in our western culture believe this non-sense, as well as the general population in these muslim countries that are being fed this type of lie by their clerics about it being a religion of "peace" as well as the anti-Jewish and anti-western ideas that the holocost never existed, and that the Spanish Inquisition was committing autrocities greater than any others in human history never ceases to amaze me. The Spanish Inquisition while a sad part of people who called themselves "christians"; and of whom I do not associate myself with at all. I condemn their practices, which were not Christ Like at all, committed less autrocities in history than the Moors, the Ottoman Empires, and the current Muslim Extrmeists who follow Islam to the letter of the law in killing "infidels" and blowing themselves up in front of innocent civilians. Not to mention the autrocities that Communism and other leftist Socialist Dictatorships have claimed. If one looks at histopry in context, one can trully see who the Enemy the Devil has used throughout history to carry his evil across the earth.
by the way khanson, if you knew Jesus personally like we do, maybe you would have a smile on your face when you post instead of the bitter, angry look ALL THE TIME YOU POST.
khanson, every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is LORD; that means that He is Deity. I worship Him as God the Son. The Only Mediator between God and Man. I glorify Him, and praise Him as the One and Only One who bore the sins of the world on the cross when he was crucified. But it dodn't stop there; no, He and He alone rose from the dead. There were more than 50 eye witnesses who saw the Risen Lord. One day you too khanson will bow your knee and acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord. Better do it now, than when you meet your maker. I forgive you for your spiteful remarks. You are in ignorance like we once were. I will continue to pray for you, that the eyes of your heart may be open to the one truth - Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes unto the Father (God) except thru Him. John 14:6.
jesus4me
The only way to the kingdom of Almighty The-God is to worship Him alone and do not idolise Jesus Christ as deity. He is simply a man first, Messenger Prophet of The-God and even he worshipped The-God (The-God of whole universe).
Waky Waky Jesus4me.
holito8
The spiritual guidance I learned from The-Qur'an is that of you. When you repent and start worshipping The-God (The-God of Jesus) your will ba salvated.
khanson, so you are studing parallel gospels. Are you seeking a different answer. God is the same in past, present, and future. So you will get the same answer. If you get one that does not match, you are studying a lie. Oops... too late. The-Qur'an is the book of guidance, which is infallible, a beacon of light for those who have determination to ward-off evils from their lives.
So what spiritual knowledge have you learned? The Bible is composed of spiritual.
khanson wrote:
"jesus4me
You play the same tape again and again, look into your collar, you do not realise how much it has blackened. "
khanson, repent, for the kingdom of God is near. Jesus Christ is the ONLY WAY to GOD the Father; not Mohammed, not Buddha, not confuscious, not Haricrishna, not the virgin Mary. Only Jesus Christ.
holito8
You are lost my child - worship Almighty The-God and follow the commands of Jesus Christ in you worldly deeds. It is possible that you may get a chance to amend yourself.
jesus4me
You play the same tape again and again, look into your collar, you do not realise how much it has blackened.
Chris333
It is strange that you ask for alternative bible while The-Qur’an gives you the word of God unchanged by humans. What sort of alternative you are looking my dear friend.
You have not read the promotion of incest in bible by blaming Prophet Lot incesting with his daughters (Genesis 19: 33 – 35).
Read Bible this promotes incest between mother and son (Genesis 35: 22??)
Read bible this promotes incest between father in law and daughter in law (Genesis: 15 – 18).
Read bible this promotes incest between brother and sister (2 Samuel 13: 10 – 14).
Read bible this promotes wholesale rape and incest between son and mothers (2 Samuel 12: 11 – 12).
No wonder from where “Penthouse” and “Playboy” got their inspiration from. Wake up man and have some commonsense prevail upon you – do not be blind. Still you call bible the god’s book.
If someone has already decided without reading the parallel resources, such are the ones who have sealed their eventual fate.
God in the Bible says He is the only God. There is none other. He does not equal Himself to idols. You says the works are parallel. Now, if God in my Bible says I need a savior and your does not. Whose should I believe? God word is still saving people today. He sent His word to all men wanting none to perish in all languages. He does not fear translation because He watches over His word. Men fear the Qu'ran will lose meaning if it is translated. So is it a word from God or of men? God does not fear men (His creations). You equate three books as the same.
Becareful you aren't try to walk on quicksand and a solid Foundation.
Khanson,
The Bible is clear on those points, and there is nothing to be done about it, unless you want to provide an alternative Bible that is more credible than the one we have. The last point about adultery and incest is just wrong. The Bible is clear on those points.
But, if you will only change these points then I will become a Muslim
Rather than deny the truth of the Bible is at is, affirm it
Admit that Christ is the only way to heaven and that it is by our faith in Him
And understand that the Trinity = One God
khanson: repent, and turn from your unbelief, ask God to forgive you and ask Jesus Christ to be LORD and Savior in your life. I pray that by the power of God's Holy Spirit, you wil be convicted of your ignorance, and will turn from your unbelief into fellowship with your Creator God thru Jesus Christ, the Son of God who was crucified, died, and was resurrected from the dead on the third day and now sits at the right hand of the Father God.
John 14:6 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
1 Timothy 4:1
[ The Great Apostasy ] Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1-3 (in Context) 1 Timothy 4 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
2 Timothy 4:2-4 (in Context) 2 Timothy 4 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
2 Peter 2:1
[ Destructive Doctrines ] But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 2:1-3 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter
Chris333
Change the following, I am yours.
Change Father (The-God) in Bible to MASTER (The-God)
Change son (Jesus) in Bible to SERVANT OF GOD (Jesus)
Change Trinity to ONE GOD
Remove adulterous and Incestion promoting verses from the Bible
Your Bible will become holy and I would be the first to be part of it.
Khanson, the point is taken, but you should compare the Quran to the entire NT, not just the Four Gospels. By "Muhammads" I take you meant Muslims, and I would say there were none. The song of Solomon is not an example either. Anyways, the Quran is irreconciably contradictory to the OT and NT, and that is why Muhammad had to say, "Oh well the OT and NT are just corrupted" So if I am to believe in Islam, then I must say that the Bible was corrupted, and that it is wrong, and if you are to become a Christian, then you must say that the Quran is false. Either way we can only compare them on a point to point basis if we want to show how drastically different they are.
There is no way you can just claim that the Quran is infallible as well you must have good reason for believing such a thing. Also there is no way you can claim that the Bible is corrupted without an alternative to point to.
Chris333
You have a point to argue. Tell me how many Muhammads you had known in biblical times, I will say none except what mentioned in Solomon songs. That could have been an enlightenment to you that Muhammad did exist in Torah.
I do not know for sure about you but many decline to recognize Muhammad (PBUH) out of jealousy. When Jews declined to recognize Jesus Christ (PBUH) and played a role in so called crucifixon and still whole of Jewish community ignores the importance of Jesus Christ (PBUH) in Shalom. Then why should I expect you to recognize Muhammad (PBUH) the promised comforter in Gospel.
I visit this website as a place to exchange the knowledge but argument is not my subject. Instead of argument, one should study The-Qur'an, The Torah, The Gospel and see the comments in favour and against on point to point basis. That will help in deciding the truth. The-Qur'an is the book of guidance, which is infallible, a beacon of light for those who have determination to ward-off evils from their lives.
If someone has already decided without reading the parallel resources, such are the ones who have sealed their eventual fate.
holito8
Thou shall not hear wrong, but yeh persist in wrong, thou shall not enter the Kingdom of God.
Muhammad in Torah (Song of Solomon 5):
The Last Messenger Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16 provided one reads Hebrew Bible or Torah. The English translation of Muhammadim is mentioned as "altogether lovely" though it could also be translated as "Praiseworthy
Have you heard the word; Wrong. This is completely wrong. That verse is describing Jesus. God named all of his prophets and apostles. Why would he not directly name one when he's name all the others?
Khanson, saying this alone is not enough, you have to deal with the points I brought up. I can also tell you that based upon the Christian Bible without a genuine belief in Christ as the only way to heaven, you will not go to Heaven, and that you are rejecting the truth.
Chris333
You see but not perceive, you hear but not understand - Thou shall wait until The-God's Judgement come unto you.
Khanson, the song of Solomon was a story of a Solomon and one of his wives. Most Muslims decry it as lewd and evil. Anyways, just saying, "Oh look there is the same part of speech or title, this must mean it is Muhammad!" Is not an argument. What if tomorrow I call myself Chris333im and that I have come to fulfill the true message of God, and Muhammad had actually originally spoken about me, but the early Muslims corrupted the message.
Chris333
holito8
FullGospel
Muhammad in Torah (Song of Solomon 5):
The Last Messenger Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16 provided one reads Hebrew Bible or Torah. The English translation of Muhammadim is mentioned as "altogether lovely" though it could also be translated as "Praiseworthy".
"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem" {The Jerusalem Bible (Torah) - Shir Hashirim - - 05: 16}.
"His mouth is most sweet; yea, he is altogether lovely (Praiseworthy). This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem" [Old Testament (21st Century King James Version) Song of Solomon - 05: 16].
In the Hebrew language "im" is added for respect. Similarly "im" is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) to make it "Muhammadim". In the English translation of "21st Century King James Version" they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament / Torah in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is yet present.
Islam
"religious system revealed by Muhammad," 1818, from Arabic, lit. "submission" (to the will of God), from root of aslama "he resigned, he surrendered, he submitted," causative conjunction of salima "he was safe," and related to salam "peace."
Muslim means one who surrenders
Khanson, the comforter is clearly the Holy Spirit, there is absolutely zero evidence from the Bible that it would be Muhammad. This is not an argument, it is just common sense.
And no quoting the Quran is not effective in a debate, imagine if tomorrow I claimed that an angel gave me a new revelation, and then in this revelation I claimed, "And God says that we are not to believe that Muhammad was the final prophet, rather I am, this is the true final message." Does this statement have any meaning? If you say no then why should I believe the Quran, if yes then again why should I believe the Quran and not a "newer" prophet? Please use real logic.
Chris333
"Oh people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about The-God except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of The-God, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in The-God and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. The-God is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. The-God suffices as Lord and Master" {The Qur'an – Surah An Nisaa (Chapter: The Women) 04:171}.
"The-God will say (on the Day of Judgement): "Oh Jesus, son of Mary, remember My blessings upon you and your mother. I supported you with the Holy Spirit, to enable you to speak to the people from the crib, as well as an adult. I taught you the scripture, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. Recall that you created from clay the shape of a bird by My leave, then blew into it, and it became a live bird by My leave. You healed the blind and the leprous by My leave, and revived the dead by My leave. Recall that I protected you from the Children of Israel who wanted to hurt you, despite the profound miracles you had shown them. The disbelievers among them said: 'This is obviously magic'. "Recall that I inspired the disciples: 'You shall believe in Me and My messenger'. They said: 'We have believed, and bear witness that we are submitters" {The Qur'an – Surah Al Maa'idah (Chapter: The Table spread) 05: 110 - 111}.
Khanson, the comforter is clearly the Holy Spirit, there is absolutely zero evidence from the Bible that it would be Muhammad. This is not an argument, it is just common sense.
To Whom it May Concern
Muhammad The-Comforter:
Jesus (PBUH) is seen in Islam as a precursor to Muhammad (PBUH), and is considered by Muslims to have foretold the latter's coming which has been conferred as "Comforter". Jesus (PBUH) advised his followers that he was a comforter to them, like him another Comforter would be sent by The-God. The other Comforter sent to humankind is a declared Messenger Prophet in Muhammad (PBUH) who was recognised by 610 CE though he was born in 570 CE.
"If ye love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever"[New Testament (21st Century King James Version) John - 14: 15 - 16].
Those who love Jesus Christ (PBUH) have been advised to keep the commandments in order to maintain righteousness while living in this world. The love of Jesus Christ (PBUH) inherited by Christians from generation to generation would take them to another Comforter; this comforter would fulfill the forecast in the bible about him. This comforter or counsellor would be responsible in completing the message of peace (Islam/Shalom) which Jesus Christ (PBUH) left for his beloved community of believers. The conditional aspect of this Comforter is that he would abide with the human community for ever meaning till the Day of Judgement.
Muhammad (PBUH) being the most recognizable personality which has impacted the lives of 1.84 billion Muslims today supersedes all the claimants of comforters if any. For whole of the Muslim community and as per the divine knowledge in Islam, no one else is born after Muhammad (PBUH) and he shall live by his example among the children of Adam till the Day of Judgement. Almighty The-God said in The-Qur’an by guiding Last Messenger Prophet Muhammad (PBUH): -
Thou Muhammad (PBUH): "We have not sent thee (in the world) but for the mercy of whole humankind" {The-Qur’an – Surah Al Anbia (Chapter: The Prophets) 21:107}.
Thou Muhammad (PBUH): "We have not sent thee (in the world) but for whole of humankind, as a Comforter (giver) for glad tiding and as a Warner but majority of the people still do not know"{The-Qur’an – Surah Al Sabah (Chapter: The Sheba) 34:28}.
Chris333 wrote: -
"Khanson, why don't you let Christians and Muslims have public debates in Afghanistan and other Islamic countries and we will let the people decide, not you from your obvious biases".
Neither I am the secretary Genera of Organization of Islamic Countries nor I am a political or religious figure of any Muslim country but I am a Monotheist. I would certainly support such an idea.
Iraq should be afghanistan below, though the same would apply for Iraq
Oh yeah, stop the Christians from speaking and prevent people from thinking, this will solve Iraq's problems. These people in the middle east need to get a grip. Can you imagine if America said that we need to stop Muslims from telling others about their faith because it might cause turmoil? This is a joke, as sad pathetic hideous joke, but a joke nonetheless. It would be for the benefit of all if the middle eastern people were forced to actually listen to others views and hear more than what Sharia tells them, that is how intellgent decisions are made after all.
Khanson, why don't you let Christians and Muslims have public debates in Afghanistan and other Islamic countries and we will let the people decide, not you from your obvious biases.
Commonalities does not prove anything. All religions have a basis of truth. But there is one that is superior because it tells the whole story. In the bible, most of the scriptures are given by God or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit; God, Himself, is the author of the Bible. People cannot understand a spiritual man. But we have seen one. MLK was a spiritual man, but people have corrupted the message.
holito8
FullGospel
All of us are children of Adam. Almighty The-God has sent different Messengers different times because a Warner was always needed to correct the human race. If you see all the religious books, you will be amazed to see the commonalities on human welfare.
Unfortunately Jews would not recognize Gospel, and Christians would not recognize The-Qur'an but Muslims recognize all the divine books revealed from The-God but do not recognize the human adulterations.
Atleast, one could share the common ground in ONE-GOD. "The-GOD: there is no other god besides Him, the Living, the Eternal. Never a moment of unawareness or slumber overtakes Him. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. Who could intercede with Him, except in accordance with His will? He knows their past, and their future. No one attains any knowledge, except as He wills. His dominion encompasses the heavens and the earth, and ruling them never burdens Him. He is the Most High, the Great".
Khanson, many believe we believe in the same God. I will say this. My gospel says God is the same God in the yesterday, today and tomorrow. Since that is true, why do we have two different "spiritual" books. God told me I needed a Savior for my sins. Your does not. Without a Savior, I cannot approach the Throne of the Most High. My says grace is given not based on works. Faith without work is dead yes. Works of God are not the same as works of men. God determines the work needed not men.
khanson, easy, my friend! I'd just like to know why there is such resistance to even letting the message of Christianity be considered in some places. People are wise. People are discerning. I say just give them the choice and the ability to decide for themselves, that's all.
Peace to you, my friend.
holito8
The Christian doctrine created by St Paul is based on his dream and whole of his life while Jesus Christ was around, St Paul opposed him. He adulterated New Testament with his own writings and distorted the fact about Jesus Christ.
There are approximately 150,000 variations in the manuscripts we have today. With this large number of manuscripts, comparing manuscripts easily reveals any place where a scribe has made an error or where there is a variation.
However, these variations represent only 10,000 places in the New Testament (if the same word was misspelled in 3,000 manuscripts, that is counted as 3,000 variations.) Of these 10,000 places, all but 400 are questions of spelling in accord with accepted usage, grammatical construction, or order of words. Of the remaining variations, only 50 are of significance (such as two manuscripts leaving out Acts 2:37).
The most notable is the fact that Jesus Christ never wrote any portion of the New Testament but there is ample understanding that the original written New Testament existed in Hebrew/Aramaic which were lost during the Roman’s barbaric rule. Exact revelation of verses to Jesus Christ has been always believed to be in Hebrew/Aramaic but the existence of original New Testament in Greek is in itself is a sign that original revelations to Jesus Christ were lost just after his upliftment to heaven. Jesus Christ spoke Aramaic and Hebrew but not Greek.
The New Testament has even fewer surviving texts. Scholars think that not until years after Jesus' alleged death that its authors wrote the Gospels. There exists no evidence that the New Testament came from the purported original apostles or anyone else that had seen the alleged Jesus. Although the oldest surviving Christian texts came from Paul, he had never seen the earthly Jesus. The oldest copy of the New Testament yet found consists of a tiny fragment from the Gospel of John. Scholars dated the little flake of papyrus from the period style of its handwriting to around the first half of the 2nd century C.E. The language of most of the new testament consists of old Greek.
So the reality of the new testament is safeguarded in The-Qur'an because Almighty The-God said "No one could corrupt The-Qur'an because The-God will protect it from human errors".
Hebrews 1:1-3
God, who at various time and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.
You are in error again about Biblical truth. I will provide Scripture for you.
holito8
"The Supreme Lord of the universe is The-God. The-God is one, He begets not nor is He Begotten, There is no one like Him".
holito8
"The Supreme Lord of the universe is The-God. The-God is one, He begets not nor is He Begotten, There is no one like Him".
khanson,
There is one God, one Son and one Spirit. We know and believe in this. Old Testament, God for us. Jesus Christ, God with us. Spirit of God, God in us.
In any theistic religion, the concept of god rests at the core of its beliefs, tenets and practices, and it determines what its adherents regard as admissible or otherwise. Islam which is defined as submission to Almighty The-God is the only religion of God. It existed before the creation of humankind and this universe. The concept of God in Islam is not only simple but understandable by each human born on this planet. The only requirement is an intention to know about The-God.
The prime nature of Almighty The-God is creation. His Almighty created the whole universe and placed human on planet earth. Everything we perceive or do not realize is all Almighty The-God’s creation. It is incumbent upon all the creations to worship The-Creator Lord The-God and shall never worship his Almighty’s creatures as god. Do not betray The-Creator because Creator Lord The-God is eternal while all creatures are perishable.
"The-GOD: there is no other god besides Him, the Living, the Eternal. Never a moment of unawareness or slumber overtakes Him. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. Who could intercede with Him, except in accordance with His will? He knows their past, and their future. No one attains any knowledge, except as He wills. His dominion encompasses the heavens and the earth, and ruling them never burdens Him. He is the Most High, the Great" {The Qur’an – Surah Al Baqarah (Chapter: The Heifer) 02: 255}.
Every human born is God's people, Almighty The-God likes the people who reveres His Almighty correctly but those who do not revere Him they are also given sustenance till the day of Judgement. On the day of Judgement, only Monotheistic believers would be blessed and could see their Lord The-God on that day.
Western people in Afghanistan are considered infidel whether Christian, Muslim or a Jew. If someone wants to help them, they must go there and adapt their culture (not Violence) and live like them for a while and do what they say to do. That will bring some trust rather mutual trust then impart upon them peaceful living and western style development. If you do not have time and patience - KEEP AWAY FROM AFGHANISTAN.
Christians are God's people. Now God will defend His people. The Bible says that clearly. Vengenace is Mine says the Lord. God can use who He wishes to exact punishment, if that is His will. Christians are not suppose to adopt to anyother culture they encounter. That is prohibited in the Word.
Joshua 24:20
"If forsake the Lord and serve foreign gods, the He will turn and do you harm and consume you..."
We cannot disobey the word of God. His word will not return to Him void, but it accomplish what He desires and the purpose for which He sent it.
Afghans are the people who are composed of Pashtuns, Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazaras. They have tradition of welcomung friends and even sacrificing their lives for them. On the same spirit, they are devout Muslims and anyone insulting their religion, even if insulter is from themselves, they kill and behead.
The Taliban are the firebrand of Afghans, they are killing fellow Afghans because they have sided with western forces which are considered invaders. They are also killing poor Pakistanis in Northern Pakistan because they have sided with USA. Fellow Afghans and Pakistanis, both are Muslims. Under such a circumstance, a Christian missionary doing humanitarian work cannot be considered safe in a country like Afghanistan.
Western people in Afghanistan are considered infidel whether Christian, Muslim or a Jew. If someone wants to help them, they must go there and adapt their culture (not Violence) and live like them for a while and do what they say to do. That will bring some trust rather mutual trust then impart upon them peaceful living and western style development. If you do not have time and patience - KEEP AWAY FROM AFGHANISTAN.
There are way too many "Christian" types who believe that being killed - while doing what they believe is God's work - to trust them in a place like Afghanistan. Too many of these people are not trustworthy and should be kept out. Let them put themselves in harms way if they want. But putting some poor "convert" in danger of being beheaded is criminal. It is these "let's all jump off the bridge together" idiots that do the long term damage and keep responsible people from doing their work.
omnatio: "They [afghans] are often wonderful people, but blinded by false teachings in Islam."
They would say the same thing about your faith. I would consider it an insult to have someone tell me my faith is wrong and yours is the correct one. As an agnostic, I am constantly amused and angered at the same time over the ignorant arrogance of what I would call "overly religious"
Study up on the fate of the indigenous peoples of the Americas at the hands of Christian Europeans because they didn't considered them civilized christians. Their destruction was, in part, due to religious ignorance and arrogance.
Well if Muslims came to the US in mass and tried to convert christains to islam, there would be a huge backlash . Christians believe they are correct. Muslims believe they are correct. As an agnostic, neither make much sense to me.
I say let both sides share their message and let's see who God really favors. Instability? Please. That's a smokescreen way of preventing the good news from being shared.
My dear friend, jonathanjkim. FYI Afghans are not Arabs, they are Pathans and several other ethic groups. They are often wonderful people, but blinded by false teachings in Islam. And I have a number of dear friends from that part of the world, including a good number who have come out of Islam to Christ.
O God, be with Your children in Iran!
My opinion is that the Muslim issue is always going to be a difficult one to deal with, for Christians in particular. We abhor and denounce Islam extremism, at the same time we try to be obedient to the word of God by praying for Muslims and by showing them the love of Christ through the work of missionaries. Christ died for them too and he expects us to tell the Muslims about him.
What are you guys talking about? We haven't killed enough Afghans? M16 sure talk louder than missionaries? Angle of attach has to be different than with a Abram Tanks and A130 gunship. We have killed enough. Biblical missionary work should start with you. Write a letter and make a friend. Spread the word and God will work his magic. When was the last time you talked with an Arab. Help them. I know most Arabs are very poor. Even ones in US, they are very poor. Help them without any strings attached. Just help them because they are poor souls that do not know Christian God, oppressed by their own.
Religious activity has brought catastrophe to Afghanistan in the past. But it was the activity of Muslims trying to stop God's kingdom, not the missionaries! See http://i-am.org/members/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=41&Itemid=9
Philippians 2:10-11
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.