Updated 12:47 pm.EST, Sun November 22, 2009

Society|Fri, Jan. 18 2008 03:04 PM EST

Huckabee's Gay Comment Sparks Controversy

By Michelle A. Vu|Christian Post Reporter

WASHINGTON – What appeared to be a straight-forward interview landed presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee in deep waters for comments he made in reference to his support of a constitutional amendment on the definition of marriage.

In an interview posted this week on the religious Web site beliefnet.com, Huckabee explains that marriage for “as long as there’s been human history” is considered between a man and a woman for life. He noted that it’s not a “radical view” to affirm this historic definition of marriage.

“I think the radical view is to say that we’re going to change the definition of marriage so that it can mean two men, two women, a man and three women, a man and a child, a man and animal,” he said. “Again, once we change the definition, the door is open to change it again. I think the radical position is to make a change in what’s been historic.”

Taking offense to the remark, the well-known pro-gay group, Human Rights Campaign, claims the former Arkansas governor equated gay “marriage” with bestiality.

David Smith of HRC accused Huckabee of linking a “loving” same-sex “marriage” to bestiality, saying the candidate’s thinking is out of sync with mainstream America and most people would find his comment offensive.

In response, the Huckabee campaign said its candidate is not equating gay “marriage” with bestiality, but rather is saying he believes marriage is between a man and a woman, according to CNN. The campaign also said gay rights groups are trying to pick a fight.

This is not the first time the former preacher turned politician has come under fire for comments about the gay issue. In 1992 while running for the U.S. Senate, Huckabee had described homosexuality as “an aberrant, unnatural and sinful lifestyle.”

Recently, the comment was dug up to pressure the rising Republican contender to recant the politically incorrect statement. However, Huckabee said he still stands by those remarks.

“If we didn’t have that [relationship between a married man and woman having children] as the ideal, we wouldn’t have a civilization that was able to perpetuate,” he said in a December interview with Fox. “So, rather than read into something incredibly out of line, just read into the fact that I believe that the ideal relationship is one man, one woman, pro-life.”

Huckabee has drawn huge support from social conservatives who see eye-to-eye with him on the issue of life and family values. He is expected to depend heavily on this voting segment Saturday in South Carolina, where more than half of the Republican primary voters are evangelicals.

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  • Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:59 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    THE UGLY TRUTH ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

    The link between homosexuality and child molestation

    http://traditionalvalues.org/urban/one.php

  • Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:59 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Rand,

    The case of the 50 year old and 5 year old is similar to that of homosexuals in that it shows a relationship that is not right. If homosexuality is not by choice then it is, at least in some sense, a genetic defect. I say defect because if everyone were gay, then humanity would be dead in a generation. Also, homosexuality has been tied to other mental diseases. Surely not all homosexuals are this way, I am sure that some choose to lead that lifestyle, I have also heard statistics that say that the majority of homosexuals had a poor if not very poor relationship with their fathers (this has been affirmed by every homosexual I have known to date personally) If so then it would seem not to be genetic, but to be socially created. I have also heard that the studies suggesting that homosexuality was genetic, were in fact flawed in their logic. Anyways, modern society is too politically correct to say anything.

  • dawz »
    Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:33 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

    if this is a lifestyle that God is ok with then why is it such an unhealthy lifestyle. Why do men dress up as women and why is it that you go and watch men dress up as women? Why is it that MOST men(maybe not you) but MOST men who are gay have never had a father in their life or was sexually abused in some way. If this lifestyle is ok then you must explain the rational of gay sex and the health benefits from it. When there are many scientific studies showing that anal sex is destructive and very harmful. No reproduction in the gay lifestyle! No morale either! Look at all the gay hotspots like San fran(castro Valley) or west hollywood. There is nothing healthy or morale about this lifestyle.
    I don't agree that you choose this lifestyle at all. Same sex attraction is not something you can choose. BUT you were never born this way. God never made you gay! Its not an easy thing to give up either. Wants you start sexualizing something it becomes apart of you. Sex brings two people together. Thats why beastality is such a problem in Australia is because someone sexaulize something that they were never supposed to. They weren't born an animal lover. Two men can love eachother. The bible says so! But when you bring the relationship like would a women then it becomes wrong and shameful.
    But I have friends who are gay and I love them and I pray for them everyday. Life is not easy! Either is Christianity! But God will give you strength everyday!

  • Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Rand503

    You heart is not right with God.

    God will save you one day but you are going to have to surrender your life and your will to Him and allow Him to transform your life into a life that is conformed to the image of God.

  • Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:52 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    Well, then, i guess there is no concept of free will. I MUST think and do everything like God, or else he will hate me. Of course, what I must think and do is different with each and every religion, so God is playing a good game -- I have to figure out what his word is, and if I get it wrong, too bad!
    Why not just make us all robots, then? Why bother with all this free will baloney. By being robots, we will all do exactly what he wants, and then everyone goes to heaven. That seems to me much more satisfactory, if God's goal is to get us to do his will and get us to heaven. Unless, of course, that is NOT his real goal, in which case he is an evil god.

    APXH: So God doesn't want me happy? But I thought he loved me? Usually, when a parent loves a child, they want them to be happy, even if they choose a path they don't like. If God wanted me to be happy as a hetero, he simply could have made me so. He didn't.
    And actually, I am telling you that I do in fact worship the true and living God. Don't believe it? You don't have to, as I have nothing to prove to you. But do you always question whether people are really worhshipping the right God if you don't like what they say?

  • APXH »
    Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:26 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Rand503, I read your testimony - You said, how you couldn't find girls attractive and you couldn't find a nice girl to kiss. But when you started believe that you are a gay and look around you are happy. And perhaps you found one to kiss and hang out with. Simply because you are happy you started giving charities too. You simply being happy may not bring happiness to God. We cannot measure God's truth according to your happiness. If you want to follow your heart and desires which may be contrary to God's way, no one can stop you. But we are telling you that You are wrong if you are the worshiper of the true and living God. The measurement is not your happiness, but the Word of God - Sola Scriptura. Thanks for your participation!

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:55 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Rand503

    Alot of your thinking is contrary to the Word of God. Your thoughts are of the world. You cannot possibly know what the good, acceptable and perfect will of God is for you when you have a worldly view of God. God's Word says that He wants us to allow Him to change our thinking to align itself with His thinking. When we do, then we will know what the good, acceptable, and perfect will of God is.

    "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Romans 12:2)

    God's Word says that homosexuality is a sin and all those who practice it will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    As long as you continue to believe the lie that God is OK with your homosexuality, then you will never be able to know what God's good, acceptable, and perfect will is for your relationships.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Rand503

    Re: works

    Eph 2:8-10, "For by grace are we saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath ordained that we should walk in it."

    There is nothing you can do to make God want to save you. In your sins you are an enemy of God. It is by his grace (unmerited favor) that He reached down and revealed to you that you were a sinner, that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the dead, and that if you will receive what Jesus did for you then he will forgive you of your sins. Once this happens the Holy Ghost comes to live inside of you. He gives you a new nature that is after His. God decided what He wanted you to do as Christian before the world was ever created. As He reveals that will to you He wants you to obey.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:01 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    Star2: "God created Adam and Even and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply. You can not obey the command of God to be fruitful and multiply in a homosexual relationship."

    Okay. Let assume this is true. And since everyone here seems to take the Bible literally and 100% truth, that means that everyone, all people, must obey God's will and be fruitful and multiply. That means those who remain single and/or childless are going against the will of God. So those people should be shunned, they should be forced in some way to get married to someone, anyone, just to satisfy this ruling from God.
    But of course, none of you have a problem with the childless or the unmarried. Why not? Why is that so less important that the going after us gays? But even God didn't take his own ruling seriously, since he made some people barren, and some the unmarriageable.
    Why is it so hard for you to believe that God might have one plan for you, and one for me, and that's okay?

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:34 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

    If good works get us nowhere, then why do them? Because we are forced to?
    One of God's great gifts to us was free will. Yet, so often I see people who make a mockery of free will. If you want to do God's will, I have no problem with it. But who says we are forced to do God's will, even if we could figure out what it is?
    If we are forced to live a certain way, then we have no free will, and it's just a joke. Again, no problem with that, but you should at least be honest about it.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:31 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Elaboration: I have a terrific relationship with God. Actually, when I was struggling with my sexual orientation, I tried to date women, but I just never was really attracted to any. I thoughtGod had abandoned me, because doesn't everyone want to get married? Why can't I even bring myself to kiss nice girls?
    It was when I accepted myself as gay that my life changed around. I was no longer depressed, I found people who love show tunes as much as I do and appreciated my good decorator sense. As for God, he has shown me more wonders since then than I could ever imagine, and my life is really going along great. I give a huge percentage of my income to charities of various sorts because I see the beautiful everywhere. To me, Truth, Beauty, God: These are all synomyms for the same thing.
    Every where, I see people wtih crabbed views of God, and they see him as so much smaller than he really is. This isn't just Christians, but many others. God is unconditional love, but most people can't accept that, as Chris doesn't. it's not my place to enlighten Chris, but I only wish he could understand what true unconditional (meaning, without conditions) love is.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:26 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    I did. And He seems perfectly fine with it.

    Good works get you nowhere? Then that is not a fair and just God. I have no problem with that, but then that precludes you from saying God is fair and just.

    NAMBLA is an organization that every GLBT group has condemned. Just as there are Christians groups you condemn, such as these groups that kill in the name of God.

    Jesus4me: I don't know how many children are fondled, but the vast majority of them are molested by heteros. Perhaps then, we should condemn heterosexuality, because it is so evil? These are the facts, but you won't find them on WND.

    As a member of GLSEN, I am updated on how my money is spent. The big project that they are working on now is gender identity. They do not use tax dollars. What the project's goals are are to stop harassment and violence against any student in school based on PERCEIVED sexual orientation. Believe it or not, there are in fact some boys who are a bit effeminate, but are not gay. Yet they get picked upon by other students. There are students who are effeminate who will most likely grow up to be gay. And they get picked upon by other students. And by picked upon, I mean beated up, called all sorts of names, harrassed, and so on. Surely, even you would agree that no child should be harassed in school, regardless of whether he appears gay or not.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Rand503

    Re:Re: Everyone here just keeps quoting the Bible and saying we can't be in a relationship. WHY NOT? If God can't provide a clear answer, then perhaps there isn't a good reason for it.

    Go to God in prayer and ask Him what He thinks about your homosexual relationship.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:48 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Rand503

    Re:And if I do, then I should get a special place in heaven for doing so. Yet, I have never seen any Christian argue that if a gay person is celebate, he is special in God's eyes.

    Your good works (being a celibate homosexual) gets you nowhere.

    "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

    Those who have a place in heaven are the ones who do the will of God.

    "And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever." (1 John 2:17)

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:12 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Rand503

    Part 1

    Re:About sacrifice: Where does God say I should sacrifice my entire being for him?

    We find out what that means in the story of the rich young ruler. (Luke 18:18-24)

    The rich young ruler asked Jesus what he needed to do to inherit eternal life (Luke 18:18). Jesus told him not to commit adultery, not to kill, not to steal, not to bear false witness, and to honor his mother and father.(Luke 18:20) The young man said that he did all these things. "Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, 'Yet lacketh thou one thing:sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.' "(Luke 18:22) When he heard that he was very sorrowful because he was very rich.

    Jesus told this young man that he had to forsake all to inherit eternal life.

    Re: What exactly does that mean?

    To forsake all means to give up what you want to do what God wants you to do.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:11 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Rand503

    Part 2

    Re:And if I do, then I should get a special place in heaven for doing so. Yet, I have never seen any Christian argue that if a gay person is celebate, he is special in God's eyes.

    Those who have a place in heaven are the ones who do the will of God.

    "And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever." (1 John 2:17)

    Re: But more important, God should be fair and just. Why would he deny me the right to be in a loving relationship? For what purpose?

    God said thru the Apostle Paul, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abuser of themselves with mankind, Nor theives, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extrotioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor 6:9-10)

    God made you a hetrosexual not a homosexual. The devil, for whatever reason, had deceived you into believing that you are a homosexual. The devil has robbed you of your right, joy, and fulfilment of being a man.

    The devil has you bound into thinking that you are a homosexual. You don't have to continue to live that way. Jesus came to set the captives free. (Isaiah 61:1, John 8:36)

    There were members in the Church of Corinth that were homosexuals before they got saved. Once they got saved they were forgiven of that sin and set free from it. (1 Cor 6:11) What God did for them He can also do for you.

    God says that homosexuality is a sin. It is a sin that you must surrender to God and allow Him to set you free from. If you don't it can and will affect your relationship with God.

    Re: Everyone here just keeps quoting the Bible and saying we can't be in a relationship. WHY NOT? If God can't provide a clear answer, then perhaps there isn't a good reason for it.

    Your homosexual relationship is illegitimate. God created Adam and Even and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply. You can not obey the command of God to be fruitful and multiply in a homosexual relationship. Therefore, it is illegitimate.

    God has so much better for you. Turn your problem over to God and let Him set you free from it.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:28 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Oh, and before I forget Rand, if there is no indoctrination of children from the Gay and Lesbian community, then who is NAMBLA, and what do they stand for? Look at the controversies behind the organization, as well as many child sexual abuse and murder cases linked to people who subscribed to this aberrhant organization.

    And please, don't misquote me, because my intent is not to say that EVERY gay or lesbian person is a pedophile, but there is HUGE evidence that many children both girls and boys get fondled, or sexually abused prior to puberty. And you ca't say this will not affect the way they view sex. LOOK AT THE FACTS Rand. Don't avoid them. Surrender to God, Repent, and HE can turn your life around, and change your desires if you allow Him to.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:23 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Rand wrote:

    "Oh please, Marantha. We do NOT indoctrinate children! That is one of the biggest lies from the Christian community. It is because we say that being is natural that we know that you can't indoctrinate anyone.
    According to FBI stats, the far greater problem of pedophilia is men going after girls, not boys, and that represents well over 90% (I don't have the exact figure) of all pedolphilia. Clean up your own house before you start attacking ours."

    Rand, if there is no clear indoctrination of children going on, then who is GLSTEN and what have they done in the schools in South Florida for quite some time now? Do a little study up on what that organization actively promoted in public schools funded by you guessed it - our tax payer dollars.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:21 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New King James Version)

    9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

    Footnotes:

    a. 1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites


    continued:

    1 Kings 14:24

    24 There were even male shrine prostitutes in the land; the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.


    Leviticus 18:22
    22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

    The leviticus passage really leaves no room for interpretation does it?


    continued:

    A proverbial term of reproach applied to those who practiced sodomy (ritual homosexuality) (Deuteronomy 23:17; 1 Kings 14:24;15:12;22:46; 2 Kings 23:7; Job)
    And is applied to males (Deuteronomy 23:17)
    Destroyed by fire as a judgement (Genesis 19:24,25)
    Wickedness of (Genesis 19:4-14)
    The word "harlot" ("shrine prostitute" (N. I. V.)) appears in (Genesis 38:21,22)
    And is the translation of a Hebrew feminine form of the word translated elsewhere "sodomite" (Hosea 4:14)
    To be judged according to opportunity (Matthew 11:24; Luke 10:12)
    See SODOMY"

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:52 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Rushdooney and the Christian Reconstructionists have all publically called for the execution of gays. Both Rick Scarborough and Dr. Steven Hotze have raised money and hosted parties for Huckabee

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:49 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    Oh please, Marantha. We do NOT indoctrinate children! That is one of the biggest lies from the Christian community. It is because we say that being is natural that we know that you can't indoctrinate anyone.
    According to FBI stats, the far greater problem of pedophilia is men going after girls, not boys, and that represents well over 90% (I don't have the exact figure) of all pedolphilia. Clean up your own house before you start attacking ours.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:46 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Summathletes: I can assure you that you have already shared the locker room and rest rooms with dozens of gay men in the past. Ever been attacked? "nuff said.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:45 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Gays have existed in every society in every time period. There were times when we were extensively persecuted, and times when we were left alone. If you can identify which were which, and determine how society was 'better', or God favored one over another, please do. But the fact remains that nothing really changed. which indicates to me, God really doesn't care.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:43 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Chris, I'm not talking about pedophilia. That is an mential illness defined by the APA. No grown man can have a real relationship with a child. But I can have a real relationship with my boyfriend. Who is harmed?
    (Why can't I post longer than a few sentences? am I doing something wrong)?

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:37 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    About sacrifice: Where does God say I should sacrifice my entire being for him? What exactly does that mean? And if I do, then I should get a special place in heaven for doing so. Yet, I have never seen any Christian argue that if a gay person is celebate, he is special in God's eyes.
    But more important, God should be fair and just. Why would he deny me the right to be in a loving relationship? For what purpose? Everyone here just keeps quoting the Bible and saying we can't be in a relationship. WHY NOT? If God can't provide a clear answer, then perhaps there isn't a good reason for it.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:13 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    HampsteadPete,

    Let's suppose that homosexuality is not a moral choice, but rather homosexuals were created with those desires. I think you would agree that those desires are similair to the heterosexual who has a desire for the opposite sex. If the desire is in fact created and not a moral choice, that gives me reason to be concerned for my own safety and well being.Let me explain.

    This created desire for lust, if it be like the heterosexual males desire for a woman then I propose that no homosexual males be given the right to enter any public men's restroom or locker rooms. No heterosexual males are allowed to enter the public restrooms or locker rooms of women in order to protect women from the desires of men that have been created in them and rightfully so.

    If according to you, homosexual males have a similair propensity to men that is not a moral choice, that is, a desire they do not have a choice not to have, then I, as a heterosexual male should also be given the same rights of protection as women against men that would provide me with security and peace of mind against homosexual men.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:17 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Chris333: Unfortunately, your scenario of the 50yo man and the 5yo child is not unusual at all these days, to the great shame of our culture. This is sadly one of the most common ways children are 'indoctrinated' into a homosexual lifestyle. I have known children in this situation, and it is unbelievably heartbreaking.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:20 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Rand,

    Here is the problem. Take Greg again, the 50 year old attracted to 5 years olds. He can use the exact same argument you are using. Greg has two options if he wants to do what is right, live a life of celibacy for all his life, or give up his selfish desire and have a normal relationship with an adult.

    You are right about lust, however the Bible does not explicitly condemn masturbation, it does do so with homosexuality. Let me ask you something, if you are unwilling to sacrifice your sexual proclivities, then how will you be able to sacrifice your very being for God? Ask yourself what is more important, your sexual desire, or God?

  • Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:50 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    HP: "There are right-wing Christian leaders who have publicly stated that homosexuals should be executed."

    m: Name them.

    HP: "Oh, I know the majority of Christians don't feel that way, but there are some who do, and the rest of you stand by and support them."

    m: Again, - post your proof of this statement.

    HP: "A couple of folks who have said things like that, or are associated with those who have, are posting regular columns on this web site, so they're not too hard to find."

    Post links to those columns on this website.

  • Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:21 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 1

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New King James Version)

    9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

    Footnotes:

    a. 1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites


    continued:

    1 Kings 14:24

    24 There were even male shrine prostitutes in the land; the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.


    Leviticus 18:22
    22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

    The leviticus passage really leaves no room for interpretation does it?


    continued:

    A proverbial term of reproach applied to those who practiced sodomy (ritual homosexuality) (Deuteronomy 23:17; 1 Kings 14:24;15:12;22:46; 2 Kings 23:7; Job)
    And is applied to males (Deuteronomy 23:17)
    Destroyed by fire as a judgement (Genesis 19:24,25)
    Wickedness of (Genesis 19:4-14)
    The word "harlot" ("shrine prostitute" (N. I. V.)) appears in (Genesis 38:21,22)
    And is the translation of a Hebrew feminine form of the word translated elsewhere "sodomite" (Hosea 4:14)
    To be judged according to opportunity (Matthew 11:24; Luke 10:12)
    See SODOMY"

  • Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:20 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    The Bible nowhere exhorts us to be complacent in our Christianity; nor does it exhort us to accept Christ in a prayer one day, and then just live to please the flesh, and then rationalize like the gnostics did in the first century church - "after all, there is the love and grace of God; He understands, I can sin today, and just ask for foirgiveness tomorrow." This is illogical, and contrary to the Word of God. Some on this site, because of whatever reason have chosen to be more flax on homosexuality, and have gone as far as to say they are not sure it is a sin. Well, biblically speaking it is a sin, and if God says it's sin, who am I to say otherwise? My problem with some on this site is that they try to rationalize (water down) sin, or they misinterpret the Bible to adapt to a personal sin, or someone they love who is dealing with something that is a sin, so what do they do? rather than admitting that the sin is sin, and just confessing it to God as sin, and asking God to remove the "fleshly lust" or watever other sin from their lives, they refuse to acknowledge it as sin, and further, will mock, or antagonize those of us who rather follow the whole counsel of God.

    We are commanded to love (NOT TOLERATE) homosexuals, as well as adulterers, fornicators, liars, etc; we are called to love all our enemies, but we are called to hate sin. Therefore, let the truth be told in love, but nevertheless, the truth must be proclaimed- we love the sinner, but cannot condone the sin. we cannot and should not as born again believers water down sin. This is the problem with the modern day church - they water down Scripture to suit the itching ears of those who are listening rather than just teach the Word of God and let the Holy Spirit convict their hearts unto repentance and following Christ out of a pure heart.

  • Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:20 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    I must say again the Bible is the absolute truth of God. If everything else in this confused and twisted world doesn't make sense, then that is why we have the Bible. The Bible teaches us that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Therefore, the fornicator, the adulterer, the thief, the pedophile, the pornographer, the bisexual, transsexual, homosexual, liar, etc all have sinned. We all need a Savior, and it doesn't matter the sin, all it takes is one sin to be separated from God. This is why we must all come to repentance; whatever the vice is. We all suffer from one common thing, and that is a fallen sinful nature. I have never said that homosexuality is the unforgivable sin; however, I have always said that just like the adulterer, the homosexual needs to acknowledge that his/her desires are contrary to the natural uses God made us humans to be, and come to grips with his/her fleshly desire that is contrary to God, and repent if he/she wants to be born again. You cannot be born again and be openly practicing the homosexual lifestyle, because it would contradict the new life that we have in Christ. Please don't misinterpret me, this is not to mean that a person who has come out of that lifestyle who just gave their life to Christ will not struggle with this sin, but if they are born again, they will willfully acknowledge their temptations, their weaknesses, and their struggles, and go back to God with them, confess them to Him, and ask Him to grant more Grace for them to turn their backs on the sin, and to pick up their crosses daily and follow Christ.

  • Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:51 am Agree: 8   Disagree: 0

    I believe that the bible is 100% correct. It is TRUE. It is God's word. Marriage is made for 1 man and 1 woman. Whether we believe in God or not, does not stop the fact that we will stand in front of HIM when we die. We do not think like HE does. We do not act like HE does. HE loves us. HE sent HIS son to die for us even though we are selfish little brats. I LOVE him. I am NOT perfect and won't be made perfect until I am up in heaven with HIM. What I am saying is it really doesn't matter what we complain about, go on about, what we like, don't like. He's our Dad and we have to do as HE says. It's worth it. Yeah, life isn't fair. GOD never said it would be EASY. My son has a cool shirt which says, "You think your life is hard, try living with Autism". ANd, you know what, he has it soo much better than so many do. Stop whining. Do what God says to do. The End.

  • Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:54 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Mathew clearly states that lusting in the heart is adultery, and we all know that adultery is a sin. I can't see how you can masturbate without lust, therefore mastubration is a sin. Additionally, as many keep pointing out, sex outside of marriage is a sin, and masturbartion is sex. Therefore, if you masturbate outside or marriage, it is a sin.
    Chris: I start out on the prinicple that God is fair and just. I didn't ask for these attractions to men, they just are there. I agree we are responsible for our behavior. But what God is therefore asking that he creates same sex attractions in some men, making them gay, then asks that they do not act upon them. Asking for lifelong celibacy is a heavy burden. Therefore, any fair and just God who asks for such a burden and recieves it would give celibate gays a special place in heaven. Where is it?

  • Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:58 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    BigTex. In order for your statistics to be valid, you need to identify from which study they are. Otherwise, they're just erroneous numbers to suit your own agenda. My guess, is that they are from some organization with a cause to suit your own. I'd like to see what control group they used in order to arrive at these statistics.
    It's pretty frightening that you feel compelled to use such erroneous facts from your pulpit.

  • Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:58 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    Rand,

    Attraction does not justify a behavior. Greg may be a 50 year old man attracted to 5 year olds, but this does not make it right in any way. Or he may be attracted to raping others. This does not make it right. You need to justify your behavior on something other than having attractions.

    Also, far from being clear about it, the Bible says nothing about masturbation. This doesn't make it right, but your example was very poor. The Bible is clear about homosexuality though.

  • Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:52 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

    Hampstead Pete, some flaws in your logic.

    "You are quite mistaken, bigtex, I understand your worldview perfectly - and reject it completely."

    Okay, maybe this isn't a flaw in your logic, if you are God. If not, then you definitely do not have a perfect understanding of BT's worldview, I would be so bold as to suggest you have a highly deficient view of BT's worldview.

    "Don't, however, insult my intelligence by prattling about wanting to "help people caught in a dangerous and self-destructive lifestyle," for that isn't your purpose at all."

    He didn't say it was, he said that preachers and politicians have the right (and maybe obligation) to make such warnings. If I were an atheist politician I would see nothing wrong with this. I mean please, don't tell me that the child molesters out there should not be spoken out against and opposed because their lifestyles prove to be dangerous and damaging to others.

    "That aside, your statistics are meaningless 'cause they just cloud the issue. You seem to think that gay's are making a moral choice, when that position is not supported by the facts, and that's the heart of the matter. "

    Sure, his statistics are meaningless, just like the statistics for drinking and driving are meaningless. I mean do you assume that drunk drivers are making a moral choice? For that matter do you thnk people with an attraction to 5 year olds are making a moral choice? Where is your argument going, not anywhere conclusive that much is for sure.

    And no, Christianity is not being dragged anywhere. America is being dragged into the pits of moral relativity and subsequently depravity by the minority, who are forcing their views and lifestyles on the majority, but Christianity has remained true since its beginning.

    Also, just because some "Christians" call for the killing of homosexuals, does not change what Christianity actually says. Suppose there was a small group of gays who also enjoyed eating babies, would I be out of place then to say that all gays enjoy eating babies? Of course, so don't say something about Christianity that is a worthless statement. Christians are not allowed to kill anyone.

  • Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:33 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Attention through controversy is always a great draw.
    The media brings the attention free of charge.

    Huckabee is getting what he needs. Let's see if he is able to take advantage of it.
    Sorry, Huckabee, I'm for McCain.

  • Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:21 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    If I was a Liar but not a practicing liar would I go to heaven?
    If I was a thief, but not a practicing thief would I go to heaven?
    If I was a GOD hater but not a practicing GOD hater would I go to heaven?
    If I was an adulterer, fornicator?
    If I disrespected my parents?
    Abused Sunday?
    An Idolater ?
    But did not practice these things, would I go to heaven?

    For out of the heart come all these things, GOD does not judge as man He judges the heart.
    Will HE judge me innocent or guilty?

  • Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:48 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Rand503 mentions that masburbation is condemed in the Bible.. I cannot find any reference to masburbation in the Bible - The closest is masturbation, to which there is very little reference and like all Scripture should be read in context. Seeing that Rand503 has some interest in what the Bible says, I would recommend that s/he really study it and maybe find things which will really change her/his life.
    When we start changing definitions to suit ourselves we are opening Pandora's Box! In South Africa Zuma, who was accused of rape, has just married his fourth concurrent wife, showers to wash off the risk of AIDS, is awaiting trial for corruption, fraud, taking bribes etc. wants to be the next president of the country, is trying to force changes in the justice and judicial system so that he wont be convicted. If he succeeds he wil be putting the country on the slide to the whirlpool!

  • Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:01 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    Glad you all are big on living the word of God. God is also clear about masburbation, and he's against it. I guess that means that all of you preach constantly to your children and your neighbors about the evils of masturbation, and you always refrain from it, right?
    Oh, and that research that you cite comes from Dr. Cameron, who was kicked out of the American Psychiatric Association because he researched was so flawed and used to bash gays, as you are doing here. All of his 'research' has been thoroughly discredited, and if you want cites, you can easily find them. For instance, the way he did the research on the lifespan of gays was to read gay newspapers and average the age of those listed in the obits. That's a hysterically bad way to do reseach!

  • Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:53 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

    Bigtex: You confuse sexual attraction with behavior. None of us, gay or straight, have control over whom we are attracted to. Some guys like redheads, some brunettes. For us gays, we are attracted only to men (Not ALL men, just some, just as heteros are not attracted to all women, just they types they find attraction to).
    True, we do have control over sexual behavior, but that is quite different from attraction. Understand? We do not CHOOSE who are attrated to: Some guys like Britney Spears more than Lindsay Lohan, but other guys are the opposite. Some heteros don't like either very much. Is that a choice? No. It just is, and it's beyond explanation or rationales.

  • Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    Bigfex, it is certainly your right to shout your beliefs from the housetops, if you like, I have no problem whatsoever with that. It is my right to disagree with them. Don't, however, insult my intelligence by prattling about wanting to "help people caught in a dangerous and self-destructive lifestyle," for that isn't your purpose at all.

    There are right-wing Christian leaders who have publicly stated that homosexuals should be executed. Oh, I know the majority of Christians don't feel that way, but there are some who do, and the rest of you stand by and support them. A couple of folks who have said things like that, or are associated with those who have, are posting regular columns on this web site, so they're not too hard to find.

    That aside, your statistics are meaningless 'cause they just cloud the issue. You seem to think that gay's are making a moral choice, when that position is not supported by the facts, and that's the heart of the matter. Every week, at least, there is some article on this site concerning some Christian sect arguing among themselves, or with other sects, about gays in the clergy, and from what I can see, the tide is definitely turning in favor of increased responsibility for homosexuals within the churches.

    Little by little, Christianity is being dragged, albeit kicking and screaming, into the 21st century.

    Welcome!

  • Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    sorry for all of the spelling errors in the previous set. I'll edit better next time.

  • Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:57 pm Agree: 11   Disagree: 2

    Here is something "Constitutional!" Preachers (I am one) and politicians have every right to say what they want to, even when peopel don't like it. The problem is when we let our thoughts and feelings known to those who don't agree they cry "homophobes." The truth is that lifestyle is dangerous and it is the duty of the preacher and the politician to want people of the dangers that they face. Having warned people of the danger, as a preacher, releases me of the responsibility of the effects of one's sins.

    Here are but a few statistics.
    1. homosexuals account for 80% of America's most serious sexually transmitted diseases. (CDC)
    2. Lesbians are 19 times more likely than heterosexual women to have had syphilis, tiwce as likely to suffer from genital warts, anf four times as likely to have scabies. (CDC)
    3. mail homosexuals are 14 times more likely tohave syphilis than male heterosexuals. They are also 1,000 times more likley to have AIDS. (CDC)
    4. Research indicates that the average age of a homosexual man not having AIDS is only 42.
    5. Research confirms that homosexual suffer from a disproportionate number of problems such as abuse of drugs and alcohol, higher levels of emotional and mental problems, social instability and disruptive behavior. There is also an higher incidence of physical health issues among younger Americans.

    Soooo, preachers and politicians just want to help people caught in a dangerous and self-destructive lifestyle to know of the dangers involved. It is my mandate and their job to shine a light on those things that can harm. If you choose to not listen. That's your choice to make. As for me, its my Constitutional right and my heartfelt desire to speak up and to speak out.

  • Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:54 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 10

    When are the political people and preachers going to learn to keep their mouths shut when it come to same sex marriage, the homosexual debate all they are going is adding fuel to a problem that I don’t think will ever be solved in anyone’s life time.

    What Mr. Huckabee and other like him should do is try to get an amendment to the consultation saying they can kill or do away with all people who don’t think, act or go along with what they say. If this happens then this is going to be one sorry place to live in then that is for sure.

  • Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:29 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

    HP, with that argument we could say the same about science. Not all scientist agree on matters of evolution, gobal warming and such. I can say that in matters of faith there is an overwhelming consensus, (even among non Christians) that homosexuality is not normative and indeed is sinful. Perhaps that is why one does not hear of a homosexual movement in Iran, Saudi Arabia and other Muslem states.

  • Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:24 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

    You are quite mistaken, bigtex, I understand your worldview perfectly - and reject it completely. Frankly, I find your (Christian) views on sexual matters as abhorrent as you find homosexuality. Oh, I know, the bible is the word of god 'cause it says it is. So is the Koran, and most other "holy" texts. So what?

    Even Christians can't agree on the "word of God." If you could, there wouldn't be nearly 34,000 different sects and denominations of Christianity in the world. So, if you can't agree on it, why should anyone take your word for it?

  • Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:11 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    One more thought on this subject. Many homosexual say that they were "born this way" so they cannot help it. They also say that God even made them this way. They say, "Its God's fault I am sexually attracted to people of the same sex." (Personally I don't accept that position)

    Suppose both of those statements are true. They can help it and God made them that way. As a heterosexual those arguments also could be used to blame God for my sexual behavior.
    Using the above reasoning I could say that because God made me attracted to women (I am a man) that I have the right to sleep with any woman I choose because God made me that way. I would be able to have premarital sex and commit adultery because God made me a sexual being and I just can't control myself.
    The truth is that God forbids premarital sex and extra-marital sex., just like he forbids homosexual sex. God may have made me attracted to women but I am still held accountable to him for my lifestyle. Who I have sex with is a choice there is no two was about it. I will be judged not for who I am, but whether my life honored God. God forbids all sex outside of marriage. You may be a homosexual but you don't have to be a "practicing homosexual."

  • Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:56 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    HP. - I think the problem we are having here is a difference in our worldview. Bible believing Christians actually believe in God, believe the Bible is His word and believe that we are all accountable to God in how we live our life while on His earth. Though we may accept some (maybe most) of scientific "fact " or even scientific theory, (evolution has not been scientifically proven therefore it remains a theory) we value God's word as the final authority.

    Having said this I am mindful of why you cannot understand or grasp why Christians feel the way we do. The answer in found in the Bible itself. 1 Corinthians 2:14 says, "But the natural man (unbelievers) does not receive (accept) the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because theyare spritually discerned (depraved).

    Unbelievers will never see the world how God see the world because they are without the Spirit of God opening their minds and spiritual eyes to comprehend. Clearly said, until people are willing to admit their sin before God and trust Jesus Christ as Savior, they will remain in darkness and man loves darkness more than light.

    I find homosexually abhorant. Why? Because it is sin and as a Christian I hate sin. Everyday I fight against my on sinful nature. Only by God's grace am I able to overcome the temptations of sexual sin. Yes, homosexuality is a sexual sin, just like pre-marital sex and adultery. I also find lying, cheating, theft, murder and other sins abhorant. Theses actions are a direct result of rebellion against a holy God.

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