Updated 11:59 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Opinion|Tue, Jan. 22 2008 11:36 AM EST

Interview: Cultural Architect on Rethinking Church Methods, Not Gospel

By Michelle A. Vu|Christian Post Reporter

A pioneer in transforming the church to reach a post-modern and post-Christian world for Christ has again shocked the world with his latest endeavor – Rethink Conference – which brings leading secular figures such as Rupert Murdoch, former President George H.W. Bush and Larry King onto the same church stage.

Erwin McManus, head pastor of Mosaic Church in Los Angeles, spoke to The Christian Post ahead of the Jan. 17-19 Rethink event about his personal thoughts on the controversial conference and his predictions for Christianity in 2008.

The following are excerpts from the interview.


CP: What was your first reaction when you heard about Rethink? Did you accept the invitation to co-host the event right away or did you have some hesitation?

McManus: Well I was part of the process of putting the event together. So what happened was Bill Dallas said we have an opportunity to bring together a lot of different people but we need someone who could bring all the different thoughts and ideas and create something cohesive and meaningful and I thought that was a great idea because we try to do this all the time.

I think the opportunity to bring together the people in the world of politics, business and entertainment and have an opportunity to listen to their best learning and thinking is a great opportunity. I think many times Christians don’t really take the opportunity to hear what people are saying and seeing in the world around them.

CP: Perhaps the most unique feature about Rethink is all the distinct voices – some secular, some Christian – that is being brought together on one stage. How would you respond to critics of Rethink who point to polls showing young Christians not having a firm grip on the gospel message and having a “truth is relative” attitude, that attribute those statistics to events such as this?

McManus: What I would have them do is look carefully at their own churches because those kids who do not have a firm hold of the scriptures actually come from those churches. It is not events like this that has made them “postmodern” or lack connection with the scriptures, but actually it is the traditional more mainstream church that has pushed kids away and made them conclude that the Bible is irrelevant to their lives.

So this is a great opportunity to actually reclaim those young people that were lost by the mainstream church.

CP: What do you think will be your greatest contribution to the Rethink Conference?

McManus: Well I hope my greatest contribution will be to try to extract principles of truth that will cause us to live our lives in a more effective way and to advance Jesus’ purpose in the world. So I think this is a great opportunity to really help us think better and to live better.

CP: Your church is hosting a conference in April, Awaken 2008. Many of the Christian leaders at the Rethink Conference will also participate in Awaken. Do you plan to reassess and integrate what was heard at Rethink at this all-Christian conference?

McManus: No, they are different conferences. At our event, we wouldn’t really bring certain speakers because we really look for people who have gifts of leadership. So our Awaken conference is experimental and really our passion is to bring leaders of every kind, in the sense of whether they are modern, postmodern, emergent or megachurch, and to say, “Look, there is something to learn from everybody and let’s bring them together and have this amazing experience together.” Continue »

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  • Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:37 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Another websit that can be included is
    Mosaicofpain.com

  • Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:36 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Well Erwin what part of being a democrat do you think fits with Christianity? Is it the millions of babies that have been aborted since 1973? Or maybe its the attack on traditional marriage with the desire from the left to embrace gay marriage. Maybe you think Christianity identifies with the belief of raising taxes or a weak military. I know your screaming to say I'm a Christian and I'm a liberal. Just say it. Quit being cute and double speaking like you do, as the example above proves. Maybe we better start "rethinking" what your all about?

  • Lex »
    Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:42 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The world and the word have a target in common: people. If parts of the world know more about speaking to, and communicating with, people, then the Church needs to start taking notes. This isn't our home, it's our mission field. You wouldn't move into a foreign mission field without learning a bit of the language, and something about the people and their culture.

    And "Not Gospel" doesn't mean they're not using the gospel, 4Him. It means they're rethinking the methods, but not rethinking the gospel. Paul was all things to all people: he didn't write to the church in Corinth the same way he wrote to the church in Rome.

  • Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:00 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Cultural Architect on Rethinking Church Methods, Not Gospel

    Not Gospel? This is why some churches are falling away; it is evident that they are more concerned about what the world thinks instead of what the Bible says -

    For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek - Romans 1:16.

  • Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:48 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    some secular, some Christian... What does the world and the word have in common?
    Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

    Who exhanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

  • Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:56 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    First of all there is no respectful words for heretics. What you perceive as venom, is really boldness for the truth. There are no smooth words to the false prophets. It is they who have the smooth words that the people love to hear. They seek to make the people feel good, and not holy. Read Matt 23, Luke 11.37-54, Luke 9 for some samples of Jesus’ boldness against false doctrines. Read of Paul in a basket over a wall. Was that because his words were so pleasant to the hearers?

    I am not a Calvinist. I do believe all the doctrines of grace.

    Today’s seminaries are dens of liars and thieves. I do know of a good one. Please let me know. (qatonchozeh@sbcglobal.net)

    You said prior to Calvinism and Arminianism… So what? Prior to Calvinism and Arminianism there was prayers for the dead, Arianism, Mariolatry, and a host of other true or false doctrines. A false gospel was at Galatia shortly after Paul left. Satan works quickly. Does that mean that circumcision is necessary for salvation, since some in Galatia believed it in the first century? More non-sense.

    The idea of someone holding that God predestined us and that we have free will is utter non-sense. It is illogical, contradictory and can only be held by someone who has checked their brain at the door. That person does not know what predestined means.

    If someone believes the damnable, hellish lie that Jesus died for each and every person, then they necessarily must believe in a works gospel. Because the only way that anyone would have eternal life is that they would perform the good work of believing (Jhn 6.29) to have the blood applied to them. Without man’s effort, and good work, Christ’s blood is nothing according to McManus’, and your, wretched belief system of lies.

    I said nothing of Roman Catholicism. You are mistaken to think that they are the only ones who believe in a works gospel. All free-willists do. And they are all unsaved.

    end of part 1

  • Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:56 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    No Jesus reserved the bulk of His criticism for the hypocrites that professed to know God with their lips, but their heart was far from Him. Those were the ones, who justified themselves in their own good works, just like the free-willist (Arminian and such) today. John the Baptist was as tough and doctrinaire prophet as you could be, and Jesus had wonderful words for him. Weakness, illogical positions and just plain bad doctrine are no badge of honor.

    You misunderstand love by thinking it is somehow dependant upon the free will choice of the recipient. Would it be loving for you to pluck a fallen 9 month old out of the lake, saving him from drowning, without that 9 month olds free-will agreement with your actions towards him? Of course it would. It is only your, and all free-willist’s pride that thinks of themselves as anything other than “only evil continually,” for “there is none that doeth good, no not one.” For “the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit, for they are foolishness to him.” But I guess maybe you and McManus (and all free-willists) were spiritual from the beginning.

    You misunderstand grace and love. It is grace and love that teaches against ungodliness and that rejoices not in iniquity (nor tolerates it). It is the grace and love of God that teaches one the true gospel, and to see one’s self for who they are, absolutely nothing, and to give all the glory to God, and none to even the smallest part of themselves. Including that precious part of the pride of man, man’s supposed free will choice of God, and His plan of salvation. That is a false gospel.

  • Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Qatonchozeh, I'm surprised at the venom.

    I also didn't realize that anyone who teaches in a seminary is somehow an apostate.

    Finally, prior to Calvinism and Armenianism, there was the idea that God both predestined and we have free will.

    Please quote Erwin saying that he believes that Gospel is conditioned upon works. Find him stating that is his Gospel. I know for fact that he does not believe that works equates to salvation. Likewise, faith without works is dead. My understanding of Erwin's theology is that he believes that Jesus died for all and that ONLY through Jesus does one come to eternal life. Contrary to your opinion, he does not state that one can earn salvation - Erwin is as far from Catholic theology as one can get. Mosaic's entire theological framework is based on the Baptist one. Finally, the Gospel is not conditioned upon man, but man DOES have free will.
    We all come to God freely, which is the very definition of love: never forced on people, but with grave consequences for those who choose to reject Him.

    Biblically, you should be very certain of those you choose to condemn. It would be a shame if when you died you actually discovered that Erwin helped more people into the Kingdom of God than yourself. Moreover, that you spent your time on earth spitting venom at those you deem unworthy. Yours seems a very Pharisaical tone - highly religious and critical. Jesus reserved his greatest criticism for the highly religious with little grace in their demeanor, while extending salvation to a thief on a cross without him first having to demonstrate a particular theological bent.

    Since all seminary professors and teachers are apostates - since you are so quick to condemn the souls of the many you do not know - which camp does this put you in?

    I'm going to quit this conversation because it seems to be a waste of time. At the end of the day, chances are you won't change your position or even exchange respectful words. I would encourage you, however, to look at the context of each of the verses you quoted. Interesting how they have more to do with not fully knowing the mind of God, but with His grace and His love evident in the context. He is neither random in His judgement nor unmerciful in His approach.

  • Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:28 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Nonsense derekwebster. The depth of McManus' scriptural understanding that you describe is not. And the fact that he is in demand as a teacher in seminaries and conferences merely demonstrates his apostasy.

    He believes in a works gospel which is no gospel at all. His "gospel" is one which is man centered and puts God at the mercy of man.

    Contrary to the gospel of McManus, God says:

    "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

    "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy."

    "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."

    God is not waiting upon man. God is God and He is sovereign. McManus is a liar and deceiver with a false gospel that sends people to Hell. The idea that he is leading people to the Lord is nonsense. He leads them to a lie, a false, evil mixture that feeds the pride of man all the while soothing his wicked conscience. Also the pharisees were hypocrites in there mission mindedness. Jesus said to them "for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."

    Remember that Satan himself quotes the Bible very well, and was willing to go toe to toe with Jesus in the Word of God.

    No matter what else he does, if he teaches the lie that man has a free will and that the gospel is conditioned upon man, he is a liar.

  • Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:04 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Nonsense, KoneWone. Erwin has a very deep knowledge of Scripture and has a very high view of it (more so than McLaren or others). His exegesis is excellent - which is why he is in demand as a teacher in seminaries and conferences. He also began as a church planter and then helped to transition Church on Brady into Mosaic. Church on Brady was also excellent under Thom Wolf (who is equally brilliant). In many ways, he is in the tradition of Ravi Zacharias or Francis Schaeffer - he is a thinker combined with a rare ability to activate those thoughts into reality. Moreover, Erwin actually shares the Gospel regularly and personally leads many people to the Lord. Finally, I know of few other men who call Christians beyond personal knowledge into the realm of personal sacrifice. While many sit around writing 3 points to a sermon, Mosaic actually sends out more missionaries around the world than many realize.

    You might want to do a little more homework on Erwin than some poorly written linked articles next time.

  • Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:14 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    I think Erwin McManus distorts the true nature and character of God and all theological errors stem from a misconception of the nature and character of God. McManus even twists the biblical gospel doesn't he? I think Erwin McManus needs to do some very sober, serious, reflective rethinking about where he is leading people.

    Erwin McManus Plays Dominoes with God’s Sovereignty
    by Ron Foster

    http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/print.php?&ArticleID=2137

    The Christian Hordes?
    A review of "The Barbarian Way"
    by Erwin Raphael McManus
    By Kevin Reeves
    October, 2005

    http://www.theothersideoftheriver.com/Articles/Hordes.shtml

    Erwin McManus Archive

    http://www.apprising.org/archives/erwin_mcmanus/index.html

    I find it very disconcerting and troubling what Erwin McManus is doing. I do not trust him at all. He is not a faithful Bible expositor as far I can discern.

    He should read every single article that are linked above. He really needs a good dose of the gospel himself and a fuller understanding of what repentance really entails. What is biblical repentance? Is repentance a gift from God alone or is it something we conjure up in our own degenerate state prior to the new birth?

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