The Coming Apostasy

JLF »

Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:33 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

The apostasy has already occurred. It happened right after the last of Christ's first apostles died.

Prophet »

Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:47 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

rand wrote:

"What about people who are NOT born again, which would be a huge majority of people on this planet? "

They do not have the hope of salvation that those who do believe do. What about all the people who aren't medical doctors? Why don't they get to go to all the medical conventions in all the exotic places? Probably because they are not doctors. Duh.
God gave a simple plan for salvation, and if people do not want to accept it, then it's THEIR fault for not being able to take part in the blessings of it. What we have here is a world full of people who don't want to take responsibility for their own actions. People do that in their marriages, with their children, and in their jobs. That's why the divorce rate is so high, why children end up in drugs and crime (or worse...politics! just kidding), and why so few people stay with the same job for life.
Because, if you don't take responsibility for your actions, then you cannot be held liable. Thus, you are not required to change. And so, people like that remain the same pathetic person they have always been, wondering why nothing in their life changes.

"If nothing changes...nothing changes." Think about it.

jesus4me »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:39 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Rand, or woever flagged me on the previous answer i gave:

Here it is again, because people need to know the truth in love.

Rand wrote:

"Sorry, Jesus4 me, but you just reinforce the notion that you and you alone are correct in your beliefs. Everyone else is wrong. What about people who are NOT born again, which would be a huge majority of people on this planet? All apostates, I suppose. In your view, all Catholics, most Protestants, all Muslims, Hindu, Shinto, Buddhists are apostates."

Rand, I never mentioned ALL Catholics; although, since you bring this up, I will say that many of the Catholic Church's doctrinal stances are far from what the Gospel of Jesus Christ teaches, and what the Apostles handed down to the Body of Christ from God. Subsequently, that makes many of their doctrinal positions such as veneration of saints, deification of Mary, nominating Mary as the Queen of Heaven, building shrines for her around the world, making Mary “co-mediatrix” or “co-redemptrix” with Christ, teaching that the Pope has authority above the Scriptures, confessionals to a priest (as if he is the mediator between God and man, and not Jesus?), etc. These are false doctrines totally against the Bible. Unfortunately, because many Catholic Churches and yes many liberal protestant churches do not teach the Scriptures in context, and they add many man made traditions and false doctrines to their theology; many men woman and children are lead astray by not knowing what the Bible teaches, and by not picking it up for themselves. This again just proves the point that they (the false teachers ) are not following Jesus as the Only Way; nor teaching Him to be the Only Way to God, but rather, they add, and delete what they want to their “form” of religion and “form” of gospel. The author of this article is very clear on what he is saying

jesus4me »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:35 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Romans 1:16-32 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.



The Just Live by Faith

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,[a] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”[b]
God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

Footnotes:

Romans 1:16 NU-Text omits of Christ.
Romans 1:17 Habakkuk 2:4
Romans 1:29 NU-Text omits sexual immorality.
Romans 1:31 NU-Text omits unforgiving.

jesus4me »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:19 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

I also have to add that when someone who professes to be reaching people for Christ, is trying to teach motivational speaking, a better your life here on earth, etc, it goes contrary to the whole of the Bible. We are not to have our eyes fixed only on this life, and while yes, we will have moments of happiness in this life, we will experience persecution, trouble, and anguish. We live in a fallen world, and it is Christ Jesus we should be living for. Our treasure is in Heaven, not on earth where moth and dust corrupts, and were tieves break in and steal. If more of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ was preached in today's churches, maybe, just maybe, we would see true revival in this country and around the world. Be not deceived, the Bereans studied the Word diligently to see if Paul the Apostle was telling them the truth. We shoud be like the Bereans that diligently search out the Scriptures daily, and not try to make up a whole doctrine on one verse without taking into contrext the whole of the Bible. People need to know the Christ of the Bible, the Son of the Living God. If they choose to deny this, and they are looking for a self-help social gospel, with a toucy feely sese to it, or a name it and claim it, blab it and grab it mentality, it will only lead to more confusion; these are not the true Gospel at all. Pray that we would be used by the Living God as examples for Him, and that the Holy Spirit would use us not only in lifestyle evangelism, but also in Speaking the truth in Love (this will sometimes require us with discernment to tell people in love something which they may or may not find offensive.). We ahve not been called to be ear ticklers, but ambassadors of God on this earth. We are called to let other's know that Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man can come unto the Father (God) except thru Him! John 14:6. There will come a time when people will not accept this as an absolute truth. I have a hunch that we are liveing in such a time as this, and if not, we are rapidly approaching it.

jesus4me »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:19 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

To those who think Rick Warren is right on, do a little research on the "emergent church" of deceit with promoters like Brian Mclaren, Doug Pagitt, and Rob Bell; Rick Warren is not too far behind with his seeker-sensitive gospel. Be warned, the Gospel of Christ will not tickle our ears and tell us what we want to hear. The Post modern Emergent/Seeker Friendly/COEXIST movement as well as well know Rick Warren, and his Global P.E.A.C.E Plan are behind the scenes with apostate Rome trying to provide people with a touchy-feely psychobable. They deny the Lordship of Christ, while pretending to bring peace on earth. Apart from the Jesus Christ of the Bible, you cannot have true, lasting peace. Humanism, along with the other New Age ism's will never coexist with Biblical Christianity. They compromise the faith by creating the impression that "all roads lead to God". This is a false doctrine, and Christ, as well as the apostles warned us this would come. What the world needs is to repent, turn to God, ask Christ to be their Lord and Savior, and then deny themselves, pick up their cross and follow Him. If the Roman Catholic Church was not a compromising church, then why do they allow such heresy as Marianity (the worship and deification of Mary as co-redemptrix with Christ)? Why is their focus on the mystic feeling and the experiential, without solid Biblical Truth to back it up? One should study Roman Catholic Church History and see that most monks were mystics. Why do they forbid their priests to marry? Why don't they teach the Word of God Line by Line Precept upon Precept as the Book of the Prophet Isaiah teaches in the Old Testament (Old Covenant)? Why is the Vatican trying to create a bridge to "mother Rome" to "unite" their lost Protestant brethren, and while their at it promoting Eucharistic christ which is not the Christ of the Bible, but a false christ. They are trying to unite all the world's religeions (Islam in this instance) as if all have common ground with the true God of the Bible?? Do not be deceived. Read the Holy Scriptures - God's infallible Truth, and discover these apostacies for yourselves. I am not saying there are no born again catholics, but they are few and far between the ones that are being taught these false doctrines, and taught to follow after man's traditions rather than the Truth of the Word of God. They are folowing this lie of the Devil hook line and sinker this ecumenical movement is trying to unite us all, even those who don't share Christ as the Only Way to the Father God. People, do not be deceived. Open your eyes, and your ears. the time is short, and Christ will rapture His church prior to God's wrath being poured out on the enemy's of the cross. Repent, and turn from your sins, give your Life to the Christ of the Bible, and then you will find true peace, true freedom, and true change.

jesus4me »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:02 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

Continued to Rand:

1 Timothy 4:1
[ The Great Apostasy ] Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1-3 (in Context) 1 Timothy 4 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.


2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
2 Timothy 4:2-4 (in Context) 2 Timothy 4 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.


2 Peter 2:1
[ Destructive Doctrines ] But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 2:1-3 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
2 Peter 2:4
[ Doom of False Teachers ] For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
2 Peter 2:3-5 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
2 Peter 2:12
[ Depravity of False Teachers ] But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,
2 Peter 2:11-13 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
2 Peter 2:18
[ Deceptions of False Teachers ] For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
2 Peter 2:17-19 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.


Now, I ask you personally, do you know Christ as your Lord and Savior, and if you do, why would you address me as narrow minded and exclusive?

jesus4me »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:02 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

Continued to Rand:

Now with all due respect, I will let the Holy, Inspired, Infallible, Inherrent, Absolute Truth of the Word of God do the exhortation, rebuking, and judging of false teachings, doctrines of demons, and Apostasy. If you as an individual have an issue with what the Word of God says, then your issue is not with me, but with God. God provided a Way to Him called Jesus Christ. Man in his foolishness has chosen to create "many ways to God" which is not sound Biblical teaching; that my friend is called heresy. God is so loving, He gave up His only Son Jesus Christ (God in the flesh) for us (John 3:16). Sinful man did not accept Him, but rejected Him (1 Corinthians 2:8). God offers His salvation thru His method, His Way, His choice, but man in rebellion to His Creator, chooses to craft a different way, a different choice, and a different route and ultimately ends up in idolatry by creating a god in man's own image. God the Creator loved this world with an everlasting love, but man chooses to reject His only Way. Please don't blame God, blame man.


2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2 Timothy 3:15-17 (in Context) 2 Timothy 3 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.

John 14:6 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.


6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.


The Risen Christ, is our Faith’s Reality!!!!!

1 Corinthians 15 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.

1 Corinthians 15:1-8

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

jesus4me »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:01 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

continued to Rand:

According to the Bible, anyone who hears the Gospel of Christ, and willfully chooses to reject Christ Jesus as God, and rejects that Jesus is the Only Way to reach God is blinded, in error, and following Satan by default. God allows no middle ground. You either accept Christ, or you don’t. God loves us, He is patient and longsuffering, and many times allow a person several times to listen to His Good News, but even after that, many still reject it. He gives us freedom to choose. So to answer you question, the following groups are considered in error and teaching falsehood: Muslims, Hindu’s, Shinto’s, Buddhist’s, New Ager’s, Taoist’s, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Scientologist’s, atheists, agnostics, wiccans, pagans, witches, warlocks, people who practice black arts, people who worship nature and the earth, people who attend a church, but do not accept Christ as their LORD and SAVIOR, etc.

If anyone within that group or otherwise hears the Good News of the Gospel thru missionaries, evangelists, pastor’s, co-workers, a church outreach, etc, here in America, or abroad and they willfully harden their hearts and reject God’s offer of Salvation thru Jesus Christ to the grave, the Bible teaches that they will be rejecting God’s Only Way of Salvation, and will be eternally separated from God when they cease to exist here on earth.

canadianchristian »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:17 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Well said anniefourjesus,wilderness,Prophet, it is good to know there are many bible beleiving,Christ centered brothers & sisters in the U.S.A. who are willing and able to stand up for the truth of GOD'S HOLY WORD !!!

anniefourjesus »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:15 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

I am in awe when I know that our GREAT GOD even when HE looks into the depths of man's heart and knows what he is like; and yet HE loves us!!!!!

You think about that!!!! HE REDEEMS us from the pit of HELL that we get ourselves into and it amazes me that man can still be so arrogant and scoffing towards our dear LORD!

You take a long hard look around this world; what man is doing to man; it is a crying shame! and yet our LORD died for this and more! So many treat it and HIM like dung and I am crying out to SHOUT HIS GLORY!!!! and if that offends you, well, it should.

The Cross of CHRIST is OFFENSIVE!!! Repent, and be baptized, be born again, for the LORD HE COMES!

Prepare ye the way of the LORD!!

These are the days of Elijah, the days of Noah and the days of Sodom and Gamorrah!

BEHOLD YOUR KING COMES! Are you ready??
Praises to the KING! JESUS IS LORD!
I am so thankful that this world is not all we have to look forward to! Christ in me the HOPE of Glory!

anniefourjesus »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:04 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Rand503: God is the Only One who is right! Jesus death and resurrection makes me right in God's eyes. His Word says, we must repent, be baptized, and Jesus Himself said, we must be born again! If anyone takes offense; they are offended by God's Word.

I hold to this: God's Word is truth and what HE says matters. John 14:6 states: "I am the way, the truth and the life, NO MAN cometh unto the Father, but by ME." God's WORD! Not mans!

Apostacy is a falling away by true believers, and believing what demons are teaching, and other false teachers, according to God's Word.

Jesus told the Apostles these would be SIGNS of the END TIMES!!! And we are in the End Times, and things are escalating Rand503.

The King of kings is coming; are you ready!
WE live in an ERA that is coming to an END, Praise GOD!!!
He is Glorious and HE is coming and we need to make sure that we are each rightly related to CHRIST.
When HE splits the Eastern Skies, and HE will, my prayer is that each person will hear, "Well, done, good and faithful servant. But His Word states that many will not, many are choosing to deny Him, to walk with Satan and so to Satan's end they will go too!

That is GOD's Word not ours! So it's not a matter of us being right, God's Word is God's Word!

Prophet »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:04 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

Rand,
I'm still trying to figure out if you consider yourself a Christian. I mean a REAL Christian. As I've read Jesus4me's latest post, I find nothing out of the ordinary in it. But I understand that if a liberal Christian (yes, I know...a oxymoron) were to read it they would probably label him as one who is intolerant. But to say that he thinks that he is right and everyone else is wrong...is wrong. There are many people who share his passion and love for the Truth. I being one of them. I take the Word of God for what it is...the Truth. And all things can, and will, be judged by it. I would be considered (and have been labeled by many) as a radical, ultra-conservative, zealot, etc. I am merely a son of God. I strive to live the truths that I present. If what I, Jesus4me, wilderness, and Online4Him say offends, then we are in good company. Jesus offended many people too. We speak the Word of God. And it is an offense to those who don't believe. Are you offended?

Rand503 »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

Sorry, Jesus4 me, but you just reinforce the notion that you and you alone are correct in your beliefs. Everyone else is wrong. What about people who are NOT born again, which would be a huge majority of people on this planet? All apostates, I suppose. In your view, all Catholics, most Protestants, all Muslims, Hindu, Shinto, Buddhists are apostates.

That's pretty much been true for the last two thousand years, and yet, as I mentioned, Christianity has survived. What else is new?

Prophet »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:08 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Amen. I tremble in awe each time the Word of God is spoken! Glory to His name forever!

Online4Him »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:47 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

wilderness & Prophet,

Well said!!!

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God - 1Corinthians 2:1-5.

Prophet »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:39 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Amen, wilderness!

God has been laying on my heart the same thing. But what God is telling me is that we have sold our birthright, by trading it for something temporal and pleasing. We settle for something that tastes great, but only fills us for a moment. But the ramifications of it could be lifelong or even eternal.
I choose to suffer a little hunger now and then, in order to hang on to the life that God has promised me. A life sumbersed in love, wisdom, faith, joy, peace, patience, self-control, hope, joy, and the power of His Spirit. To whom much is given, much is required. I will probably never be wealthy in worldly materials, but I have made myself His servant to do what He requires of me. And that includes sacrifice and obedience. But I do it to attain a much higher reward than anything this world can offer.

"Though the road is long
I will not fear.
Thought the pain is strong
I will not fear.
You, Oh Lord,
Are the keeper of my soul."

wilderness »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:24 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Many have and are falling away from sound biblical doctrine. Many are being deceived by seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. The messengers of Judas walk within the garden of God’s word, offering the passionate kiss of deception that seductively distorts biblical truth.

Have we accepted the seductive kiss that…

Makes us a lover of money
Makes us add to or take away from the word of God
Makes us follow a man, instead of Jesus Christ
Makes us a lover of pleasures more than God
Makes us disciples of vain and idolatrous traditions
Makes us disciples of saints and angels, instead of Jesus alone
Makes us disciples of relics, shrines, and statues, instead of the living God
Makes us call upon co-redeemers, denying the sole redemptive work of Christ

jester_in_the_Kings_court »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:10 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

"Translation: My delusions are better than your delusions. "

Translation: I'm insecure.

ebcdic »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

"I suggest you really mull over what you just said, and possibly repent if need be."

Translation: My delusions are better than your delusions.

jesus4me »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:54 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Rand 503 wrote:

Here is a shorter version of this column: I know the one true truth, everyone else is wrong, and my mind is closed, and anyone who even questions this is an apostate.

Trouble is, this form of "apostacy" has been around since at least the time of Luther, and even earlier. Somehow, Christianity has survived.

Rand, it sounds to me that you need to take up your issue with the columnist and this article with God. Jesus Christ is the one and exclusive only way to God. if you call that narrow minded, then you should check out the Gospels concernign entering thru the narrow gate. I suggest you really mull over what you just said, and possibly repent if need be. What the columnist said is not a matter of opinion, but of biblical fact. If you are a born again Christian and believe in Chruist as your Lord, then you will accept the Word of God( The Bible) as the inherrent, inspired infallible word of God.

John 14:6 (New King James Version)
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Matthew 7:13
[ The Narrow Way ] “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Matthew 7:12-14 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 7:14
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Matthew 7:13-15 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 13:24
“Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Luke 13:23-25 (in Context) Luke 13 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.

Rand503 »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:59 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 5

Here is a shorter version of this column: I know the one true truth, everyone else is wrong, and my mind is closed, and anyone who even questions this is an apostate.

Trouble is, this form of "apostacy" has been around since at least the time of Luther, and even earlier. Somehow, Christianity has survived.

Prophet »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:35 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

TAJ,
I am part of the Church. It's one that God is putting together. It has not denomination. It's only name is "Jesus". And only those who recieve Christ as their Lord will be part of it. Which, unfortunately, excludes many who think that by just going to church makes them saved. Catholics and Protestants alike have those people who are misled.
Romans 10:9-10 says "If you will confess with you mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart a man believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth the confession is made UNTO SALVATION."
(emphasis mine).
That includes Catholics and Protestants alike. So your claims of the Catholic church being the only true church is anti-scriptural.

RBB »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:14 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

truthandjustice1 -

"read it again in context"

I did read it in context. As did everyone else who saw it. You compared the Holy Word of God to things like the book of Mormon and the Koran, saying it was "dangerous" to believe the Bible because any book can claim to be the Word of God. Nothing else you wrote explains away those words. So I ask again .........

Do you or don't you believe that the Bible is the Word of God?

It is a simple straightforward question with a yes or no answer.

ebcdic »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:08 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

dgnymn: "Sitting at the Right Hand of the Father"

How do you know he isn't on the left side?

Mk8:34 »

Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:55 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

The apostasy is against a person."Even now are there many antichrist," as John says.This
antichristianism continues until as Daniel says,"when transgressors are come to a full a king
of fierce countence and understanding dark sentences shall stand up." This Antichrist or king
of the apostates will lead his armies charge to Jerusalem and Christ's future throne but will
be destroyed in the broad valley of megiddo. Yeah!!! Jesus

truthandjustice1 »

Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

Why did the President of the Evangelical Theological Society convert to Catholicism last year? in his own words: "Protestants simply do not have a good grounding in Christian history... I returned to the early Christian Fathers and found in them, very early on, [confirming] the real presence, infant baptism and apostolic succession, as well as other "Catholic" doctrines. But what was shocking to me is that one never finds in the fathers' claims that these doctrines are "unbiblical" or "apostate" or "not Christian," as one finds in contemporary anti-Catholic fundamentalist literature. So, at worst, I thought, the Catholic doctrines were considered legitimate options early on in church history by the men who were discipled by the apostles and/or the apostles' disciples. At best, the Catholic doctrines are part of the deposit of faith passed on to the successors of the apostles and preserved by the teaching authority of the Catholic Church.

At this point, I thought, if I reject the Catholic Church, there is good reason for one to believe I am rejecting the church that Christ himself established. That's not a risk I was willing to take.

After all, if I return to the church and participate in the sacraments, I lose nothing, since I would still be a follower of Jesus and believe everything that the catholic creeds teach, as I have always believed. But if the church is right about itself and the sacraments, I acquire graces I would have not otherwise received."

truthandjustice1 »

Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

RBB,

What? read it again in context:

The big difference is that the Catholic Church through its magisterium HAS the authority. Your pastor and your congregation, bluntly, have no authority, and no chain of authority, and no succession of authority. Believe the Bible because the Bible says so? That's kind of dangerous - any book can claim to be the Word of God. The Book of Mormon and the Qu'ran make the same claims - should I also read them as the Word of God? Shouldn't I rather listen to the Holy Tradition (eg: Dei Verbum), to discern that it is in fact the Bible that I should be reading, and not these others? There were hundreds of books written about Jesus in the first century, yet only 27 of them made it into the Bible. There were many other works and forgeries floating around. Have you heard of the Gnostic Gospels? Or the Acts of Peter? There were also many Jewish works, such as the Book of Enoch that did not make it into the canon. Additionally, many of the works had been copied and recopied and there no definitive collections. some places only had one or two writings, some had none, some had only incomplete texts, some had questionable works or forgeries. Many had a mix of all these problems. The process of developing a standard canon did not formerly begin until the 4th century...where was your church? The Church came before the bible ...THAT IS A FACT and we have the bible because of the Church. Thus, I know the bible is credible because the Church in the 400 AD determined it be the word of God. Can you understand that? Is it any wonder that the President of the Evangelical Theological Society converted to Catholicism last year? You eventually have to face the truth

Online4Him »

Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

dgnymn,

"What's all this other riff-raff talk in between."

Can you be a little more specific?

dgnymn »

Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:46 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Why can't we, as believers, merely say, with Greg Stier..."AMEN, Brother. Even so, come Lord Jesus?" What's all this other riff-raff talk in between. There's only one Mediator between humankind and God, the Lord Jesus Christ. It's not about us, but about Christ Crucified, Risen, and Sitting at the Right Hand of the Father!!1 Without Christ, we are doomed to death. We deserved death, but Christ died for us while we were yet sinners, thanks be to God.

Forget the denominations....we need to preach Christ, and Him Crucified. We need to give the people the Bread from Heaven, not a wafer!!! We need to be the aroma of Christ in our lives.

REPENT FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!!!!

RBB »

Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:56 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 0

truthandjustice1 -

You said "Believe the Bible because the Bible says so? That's kind of dangerous - any book can claim to be the Word of God. The Book of Mormon and the Qu'ran make the same claims - should I also read them as the Word of God"?

So you don't believe that the Bible is the Word of God? Even with all it's problems I thought that the Catholic church at least believed in that.

God, the Maker and Sustainer of all things, the King of the Universe has chosen to write to you, and you have chosen not to believe Him. As sad as it is when an atheist says they don't believe the Bible, this is worse.

Just remember your words the next time you go to mass and stand for the gospel reading, why bother if it's not the Word of God.

prodriver »

Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:06 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

I can recommend to every true seeker of the truth the videospeaches on "truthleftbehind.com" .
Listen and check for yourself under prayer, God wants us to understand and be well prepared, he claims that personally so many times and there is so much Babylonism among us.

So much false interpretation and not knowing. The bible is Gods word and his light for our way - put away human wisdom and seek the Lord, he will show and explane himself to every honest seeker, I have no doubt.

jesus4me »

Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:38 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Sorry, I capitalized the word man. I meant for it to be small case.

jesus4me »

Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:36 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 1

wilderness; well said my brother. I must point out that the Catholic Church teaches another heresy not mentioned on your post, nor by truth and justice- The veneration and elevation of Mary as co-redemtrix, or co-mediatrix with Christ. In other words, they have not only put the Pope as a mediator between man and God, but they also want to say Mary is deity. many in the Catholic Church movement are saying Mary is the queen of heaven. In the Old Testament God specifically told the Israelites to stay away from that pagan goddess. The Catholic Church would do well in informing their parishioners that nowhere in the Bible does it teach that we should worship or pray to Mary; nor does the Bible teach that she, or the Pope are the mediators between God and Man. Rather, it teaches that Jesus is the Only Way to God the Father. He is the Only Mediator between God and man.

6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Matthew 7:13
[ The Narrow Way ] “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Matthew 7:12-14 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 7:14
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Matthew 7:13-15 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 13:24
“Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Luke 13:23-25 (in Context) Luke 13 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.

jesus4me »

Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:26 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Hebrews 1 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.



Hebrews 1
God’s Supreme Revelation
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself[a] purged our[b] sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
The Son Exalted Above Angels

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:


“ You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?[c]

And again:


“ I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?[d]

6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:


“ Let all the angels of God worship Him.”[e]


7 And of the angels He says:


“ Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”[f]


8 But to the Son He says:


“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”[g]



10 And:



“ You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”[h]


13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:



“ Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?[i]



14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?

Footnotes:

Hebrews 1:3 NU-Text omits by Himself.
Hebrews 1:3 NU-Text omits our.
Hebrews 1:5 Psalm 2:7
Hebrews 1:5 2 Samuel 7:14
Hebrews 1:6 Deuteronomy 32:43 (Septuagint, Dead Sea Scrolls); Psalm 97:7
Hebrews 1:7 Psalm 104:4
Hebrews 1:9 Psalm 45:6, 7
Hebrews 1:12 Psalm 102:25–27
Hebrews 1:13 Psalm 110:1

jesus4me »

Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:22 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

Revelation 17:9 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.


9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

jesus4me »

Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:21 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Apostates Depraved and Doomed

12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about[c] by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
Apostates Predicted

16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. 17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
Maintain Your Life with God

20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;[d] 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,[e] hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.
Glory to God
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you[f] from stumbling,
And to present you faultless
Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,
25 To God our Savior,[g]
Who alone is wise,[h]
Be glory and majesty,
Dominion and power,[i]
Both now and forever.
Amen.



Footnotes:

Jude 1:1 NU-Text reads beloved.
Jude 1:4 NU-Text omits God.
Jude 1:12 NU-Text and M-Text read along.
Jude 1:22 NU-Text reads who are doubting (or making distinctions).
Jude 1:23 NU-Text adds and on some have mercy with fear and omits with fear in first clause.
Jude 1:24 M-Text reads them.
Jude 1:25 NU-Text reads To the only God our Savior.
Jude 1:25 NU-Text omits Who . . . is wise and adds Through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Jude 1:25 NU-Text adds Before all time.

jesus4me »

Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:21 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Jude 1 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.



Jude 1
Greeting to the Called
1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,

To those who are called, sanctified[a] by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.
Contend for the Faith

3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God[b] and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Old and New Apostates

5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

jesus4me »

Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:49 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

This article is so right on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We as the Body of Christ must watch out for abherrant doctrine! Thre are many in today's post modern culture that would turn the simple message of the Gospel of Christ into a lie by twisting it and bringing in doctrines of demons. The Emergent Church is doing this and they are bringing in contemplative prayer (a new age mystical practice), and universalism into the Body of Christ.

For more info on this abherrant doctrine - look on www.understandthetimes.org, and www.apprising.org.

1 Corinthians 1:18-25 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.



Christ the Power and Wisdom of God

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:


“ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”[a]

20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks[b] foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Footnotes:

1 Corinthians 1:19 Isaiah 29:14
1 Corinthians 1:23 NU-Text reads Gentiles.

truthandjustice1 »

Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:04 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 6

We can see where Christ gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom and the power to loose and bind. Where were the parishioners given power over the pastors? Is the majority always correct on matters of faith or morals. If a lot of parishioners happen to favor abortion, would they fire (or refuse to hire) a pastor who would preach that abortion is wrong? Is anybody really surprised that there are thousands and thousands and thousands of different protestant faiths? When the Apostles chose Matias to replace Judas, did all the apostles, disciples and followers of Jesus vote? Or did they cast lots? Jesus knew He was going to leave this earth, he left authority to rule his church against heretics and others. Makes sense to me. I personally don't think Jesus would want 30,000 + protestant churches all stating that they have authority.

truthandjustice1 »

Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:50 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

The big difference is that the Catholic Church through its magisterium HAS the authority. Your pastor and your congregation, bluntly, have no authority, and no chain of authority, and no succession of authority. Believe the Bible because the Bible says so? That's kind of dangerous - any book can claim to be the Word of God. The Book of Mormon and the Qu'ran make the same claims - should I also read them as the Word of God? Shouldn't I rather listen to the Holy Tradition (eg: Dei Verbum), to discern that it is in fact the Bible that I should be reading, and not these others? There were hundreds of books written about Jesus in the first century, yet only 27 of them made it into the Bible. There were many other works and forgeries floating around. Have you heard of the Gnostic Gospels? Or the Acts of Peter? There were also many Jewish works, such as the Book of Enoch that did not make it into the canon. Additionally, many of the works had been copied and recopied and there no definitive collections. some places only had one or two writings, some had none, some had only incomplete texts, some had questionable works or forgeries. Many had a mix of all these problems. The process of developing a standard canon did not formerly begin until the 4th century...where was your church?

truthandjustice1 »

Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:42 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

Memphis,

I'm glad you liked the site, it is an incredibly informative site. I'm not sure why you are surprised. However, if you are surprised perhaps other people you know will be surprised so I encourage you to pass that site on to others.

RBB,

First of all you are in serious error. How do you explain John 20: 21-23, so it doesn't matter if Paul chastised Peter. The Apostle Paul did not see the risen Lord (vision/dream but not in the flesh).

God put Moses in charge. It was Moses who chose his successor, Joshua. God made Aaron the High Priest. It was Aaron who chose his successor. And that successor chose his and so on. Obviously there is Biblical precedent for succession. Who, that is a non-deity, is the authority of your church? Since Jesus came for the remission of sins, it would be utterly incomprehansible that He would give the Apostles the Holy Spirit with the specific power of forgiving and retaining sins for only a single generation. Such an idea was never -- I mean never -- entertained in the early Church. Well then what happened before the year 1500 when the Bible wasn't printed from printing presses??? Did all the people perish to hell in the old centuries b/c they didn't have a bible? That is why it is not the "Bible alone" theory. Remember the church came BEFORE the bible, not the other way around. That is why there is Sacred Tradition.

RBB »

Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:46 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

truthandjustice1-

I read your article. It leaves out some information, this is by no means a complete list just what comes to my mind. It leaves out that Paul raised someone from the dead, which I don't belive Peter did. It leaves out that Peter was publicly reprimanded by Paul for refusing to eat with Gentile Brothers and Sisters when he was pressured by those who believed it was wrong. It leaves out that about half way through Acts suddenly the Christian history goes from concentrating on the apostles, including Peter, to Paul and others including James the Lord's brothe,r who was very important in the Jerusalem Council. You will see this in the listing of passages in the article. None of this puts Peter at the head of the church.

I direct you (and the author) to 1 Corinthians 1:12 "What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ." Does this look to you like Peter was in charge? (Cephas is Peter)

The Bible, God's word does not say that Peter was the head of the church. No Protestant, most of all me, wants in any way to take anything away from Peter who was one of Jesus chosen and close apostles (James and John - which the Bible calls the apostle that Jesus loved - being the others) But it is a terrible thing to use him to teach things that he never would have taught while he was alive.

kevin82 »

Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I know this guest columnist has good intentions, but he needs to better deal with what universalists argue. Now, I am not a universalist, but there are universalists who are fully aware of the scripture passages cited -- it's not like they just ignore them because they don't really believe in the Bible (perhaps for liberals but I'm talking about those committed to orthodox Christian doctrines. All of these "evangelical universalists" believe that everyone is saved by Christ and by faith in Christ, and that there is a hell. What they deny is that those in hell cannot repent and have faith in Christ and, thus, enter heaven. They interpret the "everlasting" as dealing with the fact that hell is not in finite, temporal reality, but rather in eternity; therefore, it is not necessary that all those sent to hell are also condemned for all eternity. Now, I don't agree, but I can at least recognize that it is a legitimate viewpoint to be reckoned with and not dismissed as the latest workings of the Devil at the dawn of the Apocalypse.

memphis »

Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:09 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

tj1,

Thanks for the site: scripturecatholic.com
I had no idea that the Catholic Church had such a foundation for these beliefs from scripture.

Online4Him »

Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:57 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

wilderness,

Well said!!!!!

wilderness »

Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:26 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 3

Peter, an apostle (1Pe 1:1), an elder (1Pe 5:1), and a servant (2Pe 1:1).

The above scriptures, as directed by the Holy Spirit, speak volumes against the following pompous display of erroneous teaching:

1. The Pope
2. Patriarch of the West
3. Primate of Italy
4. Metropolitan of the Province of Rome
5. Bishop of Rome
6. Sovereign Pontiff (derived from the priesthood of pagan Rome)
7. Our Holy Father
8. Your Holiness
9. Most Blessed Father
10. Servant of the Servants of God
11. Chief pastor of the whole church
12. His Holiness
13. The Holy Father
14. Supreme Pontiff
15. Vicar of Christ

In Peter (an apostle, a servant, and an elder), we do not Scripturally find a tiara, a mitre of plates of gold, being carried on a chair, having his foot, knee, or ring kissed. Neither do we find Peter establishing traditions that contradict the word of God, adopting pagan practices of worship and grandiose titles, praying with, through, or to saints who physically sleep in the Lord.

truthandjustice1 »

Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:48 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

RBB,

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/primacy_of_peter.html

truthandjustice1 »

Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:06 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

I guess we can agree to disagree. On that note I want to thank the person who wrote this article and the positive things his website said about our Pope. There will always be the extreme people who will not like the Church, but thanks for your site and the things written about the Pope. Your site is right "that people expected little out of John Paul II's tenure as church leader. The critics were screaming all over that he was a bad fit, but the few supporters turned out to be right in the end". I take solace in your point that when "people talk about the Pope, point out that just like him, your friend are surely feeling the pressure of the outside world to accept the lie that they will amount to nothing". I also want to thank your site for pointing out the charitable works that the Catholic Church does. We disagree theologically, but I appreciate your article and the website.

RBB »

Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:16 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

truthandjustice1 - Again you resort to simply quoting men. What man says matters not one bit. The only thing that matters is what God says. God's word has not, does not and will never bear out what the Catholic church teaches.

Again I have to ask, how can you be a Christian and believe the words of men over the Word of God?

How can you reconcile the fact the God's own word does not bear out the Catholic teaching that Peter was the head of the church, that he was "the Bishop of Rome - the first "pope", or that the Roman church was the center of Christianity.

By the way the "plain reading" is that the church would be built on the truth of what Peter said, not Peter himself. I do not deny the plain words of God, I deny the Catholic interpretation of the passage because the rest of God's Word simply does not bear it out.