ESPN Host Returns to Airwaves after Anti-Jesus Tirade

Slacker »

Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

To BobCu...

"The Resurrection was the biggest hoax in human history. Just because millions of people believe in this hoax does not make it any less insane."

Your the one calling it a hoax, show me the evidence that disproves the resurrection, i have read the information proving the resurrection, i want to see your evidence it is made up...

Slacker »

Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

to ebcdic ie (bobcu)

"It's so obvious jesus couldn't read or write. If there was a jesus, he was just an uneducated preacher man. Certainly none of his miracles couldn't possibly have happened. I'm still waiting for evidence for his disgusting transformation from a stinking corpse to a zombie. I mean real evidence. Evidence powerful enough to make even a sane person believe in something as ridiculous as the resurrection. How convenient this was suppose to happen at a time when people were likely to believe any nonsense. In the year 2008 people should not be as superstitious as people who lived in the 1st century. Unfortunately today there are millions of people who are just as gullible as the people who lived 20 centuries ago."

How in the world can you create an argument against someone you don't believe existed in the first place, you say "if there was a jesus", then you want evidence of Jesus's ressurection. Either you believe Jesus was a real person or you don't. And you call us Gullible...

jesus4me »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:00 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

1 Timothy 4:1
[ The Great Apostasy ] Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1-3 (in Context) 1 Timothy 4 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.


2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
2 Timothy 4:2-4 (in Context) 2 Timothy 4 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.


2 Peter 2:1
[ Destructive Doctrines ] But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 2:1-3 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
2 Peter 2:4
[ Doom of False Teachers ] For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
2 Peter 2:3-5 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
2 Peter 2:12
[ Depravity of False Teachers ] But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,
2 Peter 2:11-13 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
2 Peter 2:18
[ Deceptions of False Teachers ] For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
2 Peter 2:17-19 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.

JC »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

To Ebcdic

Dear one, your question about dates, times, writings, etc., are easily answered. The answer is based upon worship.

Let me explain. If Jesus would have allowed a statue of Himself be built, then later people would have worshipped the statue instead of Him. Same thing with writings, dates, times, etc. He did not want us following a statue, a picture, a time of day, a date. He wanted us to follow Him.

There is one other thing beloved. The Jews of the day were indeed expecting their messiah. However, because of their blindness, and hardness of heart, they would not accept that this messiah would be robed in humility. They were expecting somebody to ride in on a shining horse and save the day. Furthermore, since this Jesus spoke to them in ways that exposed their true nature, and since this Jesus hung around with the sick, needy, and unloved, they refused to accept Him as their messiah.

The strange, and unfortunate, thing about this is that they were supposed to be the authority on what we now call the Old Testament. Yet they still didn't see it. When we go over the Old Testament today, we can clearly see that Jesus' appearance at that time did indeed fulfill many prophecies. But, they still missed it. So, since this Jesus was calling Himself not only the Son of God, but God Himself, they killed Him.

But, three days later, He came back. You can't kill God. They tried, although not knowing He was God, and failed. The sad thing, they still refused.

Logically, beloved, this particular event is a stain upon the Jewish nation. And, until they recognize that Jesus is the true Messiah, the stain will remain. They didn't want anything to do with Jesus, therefore writings of these events would not be exactly their cup of tea either. For the ones that did decide to follow Jesus, they were also killed by the orders of the Pharisees. Any writings that were found on these individuals would have probably been destroyed as well.

In reality, they didn't stop anything, except their entrance into His presence.

Dear one, this invitation is open to you too. And, as the situation was then, it is now. He is standing in front of you. What are you going to do?

MuggleBorn »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:11 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

ebcdic,
I've noticed you still haven't answered tgender's original question. You've given absolutely no insight as to WHY Christians are as (insane | gullible | lying) as you claim. All you've done is used the word "magic" a lot, as Chris333 pointed out, and struggled to avoid counter arguments.

Oh, and you've resorted to name-calling right from the beginning. It's interesting ... skeptics don't usually do that until they've RUN OUT of arguments. You seem to have come into the thread empty-handed.

So ante up :^) Where did the entire universe come from? Even Stephen Hawking doesn't know for sure. Have you ever read 'Universe in a Nutshell'? ... Nicely written ... cool illustrations, but it's like a murder mystery without a murderer.

Greater skeptics throughout history have set out to prove to their stupid, naive Christian peers that God does NOT exist, only to come to the conclusion that He most definitely DOES, after carefully examining the cumulative evidence.
... And they were not necessarily any more intelligent than you, but they articulated their thoughts like scholars did. The major difference between them and you is that THEY were HONEST skeptics.

They weren't afraid to "test their faith" :^)

You need to find a real Christian, local to you ... someone as patient and articulate as JC or Annie ... and bring your questions (or arguments) to them face to face ... WITH NO FEAR.

Right now your credibility surmounts to someone who doesn't place their basis for belief in rationality and reason, but rather anger or resentment towards God, and probably other people, calling themselves Christian, but poorly representing Him.

God DOES love you, but sin permeates us all and none of us is saved without acceptance of God's Gift, His Son, who died for us.

Try looking beyond the "natural" universe and accepting that there is belief, but there really is no other "rational" end of the spectrum. The best a skeptic can do is say they don't know. Until someone can prove Quantum Loop Theory (and not even then), everything we learn about the universe has holes, is completely unseen, and therefore, magic.

tgender »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:55 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

ebcdic-
"How convenient this was suppose to happen at a time when people were likely to believe any nonsense."

How arrogant to assume that ancient people are so stupid as to not understand when someone is dead and to realize how incredibly unusual it would be to become alive again.

I see that you completely ignored the brief evidence I gave for the resurrection of Christ. Do you realize that a large majority of SECULAR Bible scholars grant this evidence? It then becomes a matter of the will as to how it is interpreted. Some people are so hardened in their hatred for God that they refuse to see what's plain. But, there is always hope ebcdic. If you sincerley ask God to show you these things, He will...

ebcdic »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:47 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

"Furthermore, Jesus predicted his own resurrection." According to the made up stories in the Bible?

The Resurrection was the biggest hoax in human history. Just because millions of people believe in this hoax does not make it any less insane.

ebcdic »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:43 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

What was the exact day, month, and year of the death of jesus? Nobody knows, not even the year. And this was suppose to be a god?

It's so obvious jesus couldn't read or write. If there was a jesus, he was just an uneducated preacher man. Certainly none of his miracles couldn't possibly have happened. I'm still waiting for evidence for his disgusting transformation from a stinking corpse to a zombie. I mean real evidence. Evidence powerful enough to make even a sane person believe in something as ridiculous as the resurrection. How convenient this was suppose to happen at a time when people were likely to believe any nonsense. In the year 2008 people should not be as superstitious as people who lived in the 1st century. Unfortunately today there are millions of people who are just as gullible as the people who lived 20 centuries ago.

For fun, you and others here can try this test on YouTube. If your score is zero you passed. I got a zero. The higher the score, the worse your mental illness is.

Calculate Your God Delusion Index

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCX0JJ16dFM

tgender »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:33 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I obviously meant "brief" outline, not "grief" outline in my previous post.

tgender »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:32 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

ebcdic-
I think you are underestimating the significance of a resurrection. Science informs us that this is a naturally impossible event. If one happens, then it must be supernatural, which would be evidence for God. Furthermore, Jesus predicted his own resurrection. If this resurrection indeed occurred, then it gives us strong reason to pay attention to what Jesus taught.

The evidence for Christ’s resurrection is very strong. Here’s a grief outline of it:
1. Jesus died on the cross. There can be no resurrection if there was no death.
2. Jesus was buried in a tomb that was later found empty.
3. Jesus appeared to more than 500 people following his burial.
4. Jesus’ disciples were totally transformed by this experience. They were changed from disappointed, frustrated, angry cowards at Jesus’ death to bold martyrs proclaiming his resurrection. How do you explain such a transformation except that they witnessed the resurrected Christ? Within 300 years of this event, the entire Roman Empire became Christian.

Chris333 »

Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:33 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Again, you have got to do better than this. The only thing you said of any value was about Caesar, but you jumped to a conclusion. Say we have maybe 30 or 40 manuscripts written 300 to 1000 years after Caesars life that say he was born and died then. This is pretty good, and I am not denying its validity, but this is a joke compared to Jesus. We have over 5000 manuscripts, many of which were written very shortly after His death. The difference is that the writers were not concerned, or did not know, when Jesus was born. This doesn't prove anything, certainly not that Caesar is better attested to.

Everything you said after this is not worth mentioning.

ebcdic »

Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Gaius Julius Caesar
Born 12 July 100 BC - 102 BC
Died 15 March 44 BC

Jesus (7–2 BC/BCE to 26–36 AD/CE)

We got an exact death date for Caesar.

For Jesus, who was suppose to be God Himself, we only have wild guesses for the year he died. This is a god, right? Why would a god be so unimportant we don't even know what year he died? I'm not impressed. Caesar seems a lot more real.

Only brainwashed people, brainwashed since age 2, believe jesus was a god. Only the most gullible people believe jesus rose from the dead.

A rational person, besides automatically rejecting the idiotic idea jesus was a zombie, would ask why would a god do anything so gross and disgusting as performing a resurrection magic trick. It makes no sense to an unbrainwashed person.

If there was anyone in the world who had never heard of jesus, and somebody told him jesus rose from the dead 20 centuries ago, he would most certainly think that's nuts, because it is nuts.

"what is your big problem with a supernatural explanation? The argument is simple ebc, if God exists, then there is no problem with a supernatural explanation."

There's no evidence for any god. Even if there was a god, why would it perform this goofy disgusting zombie magic trick? The resurrection is against all common sense.

"your entire argument lists no evidence"

I'm not the person making the wild claim jesus was a zombie. If you want to believe in this idiotic zombie nonsense, then you prove it. Until you come up with some strong and fantastic evidence for your ridiculous claim, I will laugh at it. Nobody should be expected to disprove an insane delusion.

Chris333 »

Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

ebc, you failed to address one point I made, it amazes me. I truly thought that now that I gave you just a little of the reasons, you would be able to make some kind of real argument, but I was wrong, your entire argument is based upon "magic magic, I can't believe in magic, because magic is impossible because it is impossible"

You also made some grave errors, the first being that Julius Caeser does not have more evidence than Christ does, this is just a lie.

Secondly, what is your big problem with a supernatural explanation? The argument is simple ebc, if God exists, then there is no problem with a supernatural explanation. All of your argument based upon "magic" (whatever you mean by that) is in the trash, it is literally obsolete. You can keep saying magic, but you ought to add, "I am not able to draw logical conclusions" to the end of your argument.

Right, saying the witnesses were invented is great. You should go up for the nobel prize.

In short, your entire argument lists no evidence, except for a false supposition that Julius had more evidence than Christ (I don't know where you got that idea). And you basically said, "Miracles cannot exist because they are silly"

Try again. (Or just give up, sometimes that is the better route to take)

ebcdic »

Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

Chris333: "The Resurrection of Christ" "your incessant use of the term magic"

Please tell me why you wouldn't call a corpse returning to life a magic trick?

This "Jesus rose from the dead" stuff is a myth. The witnesses were invented.

Fantastic claims require equally fantastic evidence. There is no real evidence for the Resurrection.

Making it even more unbelievable is the huge span of time since it was suppose to happen. We can't be sure what's in today's newspaper is true. How can we verify a miracle (a magic trick) occurred 2,000 years ago?

I noticed there's more evidence for Julius Caesar than there is for Jesus Christ. Why is that? Perhaps it's because Julius Caesar was real, and Jesus Christ is an invention.

I noticed Jesus Christ never wrote anything down that survives today. Was he illiterate? Was he uneducated? Probably he didn't know how to read or write. Certainly he didn't know anything about science. I often doubt he ever lived. If he really was a god, why do more than 4 billion people not believe that? If he really was god, why is there more evidence for the existence of Julius Caesar?

Archaeological discoveries are not evidence for a dead body becoming a zombie. The Resurrection, which is the most important magic trick of Christianity, couldn't possibly have happened. Anyone who has ever seen and smelled a 3 day old corpse could never believe it could return to life.

I'm glad the Resurrection is so important to Christians, because no magic trick could be more improbable. How many more centuries can people believe this nonsense? The Christian Jesus god will eventually be as obsolete as the Zeus god.

Chris333 »

Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

ebc,

Despite your incessant use of the term magic (which does nothing to help your argument, but if it helps you sleep better at night, then by all means use it) you asked for evidence?

The Resurrection of Christ is one of the most historically testified events in all of antiquity. There are over 5000 manuscripts of the NT, and the earliest were written no later than 40-50 AD (This is well testified to in even the secular biblcial historians) The Gospels were all written before the end of the first Century. Other than the biblical sources there do exist several non-biblical texts which refer and testify to the historicity of Christ, and the Christians' belief in the Resurrection.

William Lane Craige debated Bart Ehrman regarding the historicity of the Resurrection and Bart finally backed into a corner saying "Oh, history cannot accept this, because it is supernatural, and supernatural things are the least likely to happen" Of course anyone could see that this is not a real argument, it is actually self-defeating but oh well, he gave his best shot. You can check out the debate for yourself on William Lane Craiges website which has links to many of his debates.

This of course is just the tip of the Ice berg. Nelson Glueck stated that we can say categorically that there is no archaeological discovery to have ever contradicted the Bible, and on the contrary there is a great deal to support it, both NT and OT. (A few examples would be the wall of Jericho, the civilization of the Hittites, the accuracy of the record of Kings, and the extreme accuracy of the NT on dates, places, and people who were governing in that time period) Anyways, the burden of proof is on you to show how the Biblical accounts are false, and to show how my faith in the Resurrection is unintelligent or irrational.

Oh yeah, screaming "Magic, magic, it is just magic and you silly people only believe in a created magician" is not an argument, it is not even a valid statement on any level.

Finally, I pray that you could see the truth of the Bible, but if you cannot or will not, then at least you will know that my faith is not based upon irrationality, or any other Christian's for that matter.

(I have only mentioned a very small sampling of objective arguments, I did not even touch on the experiential arguments)

anniefourjesus »

Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Jesus Christ is speaking to you, ebcdic, and HE is waiting for you to make a choice, others cannot decide for you. If you truly want to find God; when you seek HIM with all your heart, then HE will be found by you, for HE is not far from each one of us!

Just one note: This world is dead and it is passing away, and so you need to make a personal decision ebcdic, will you choose Jesus or not, now you do not need to answer anyone here, this is between you and God! As each man/woman must make their own choice, to choose life or death!

Jesus Christ, HE calls us Beloved and so we are HIS Beloved! and all those who love know God; for God is love and when I came to a full understanding of who I was in Christ, HIS Child! and that the enemy had tried to destroy my life and my families, but GOD intervened and HE is restoring what the enemy stole out of our lives! Hence, Jesus Christ, is The Redeemer!

One day and very soon, Jesus Christ will return and this world will be destroyed by fire, and Jesus is bringing a new earth and new heaven! So there is hope but not in this world!

Praise be to the LORD GOD!

anniefourjesus »

Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Amen JC!!! JC is a true follower of Jesus Christ and I don't say this to flatter JC; I have read many of the posts written by JC and I know JC loves the Lord and people too!

ebcdic, people who genuinely walk with Jesus Christ will reflect Him, Jesus loves you too ebcdic and whether you recognize Him or not, that doesn't stop Him from loving you.

Explain to me what is "childish magic"? Jesus raising from the dead is not magic, it is The Power of Holy God!
Jesus Christ, is the Hope of the World and I will pray ebcdic that HE will open your heart and mind to hear Him talking to you through us!!

I believe the LORD is speaking through JC and others on this board, and HE is speaking directly to you ebcdic. The HEAVENS declare HIS Glory, HE placed the stars in the sky and HE calls them all by name!

anniefourjesus »

Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

ebcdic: The proof that your looking for isn't something tangible that I could take out of my pocket and show you.

But I can tell you what Jesus Christ (God) has done in my life. I was raised in foster homes; beaten nearly every day of my life; subjected to things no child should ever have to face by other humans; and I hated the world and God too! I couldn't understand why God would allow this to happen to children and so I thought I would go my own way and take control of my own life.

I tried this for many years and my life was a living HELL; how I came to know God is quite real wasn't because someone told me He was; it was the night in the gutter when I was at the end of my life and was going to kill myself; God made Himself quite real to me.
This world we live in today is a fallen world, but it is also a world that Jesus Christ died.
I met Jesus in that gutter in HE changed my whole life, from the heart of stone in me, He gave me a heart of flesh and a new spirit. He showed me that just because He allows things doesn't mean He approves.
He is God and HE is not bound by time and space, but we are; and so HIS plan of salvation is being worked out in time and space for our benefit. God is Almighty and HE created man in HIS image and HE gave us free will and man wilfully chose to disobey Him.

God wrote the knowledge of Himself on every human heart; and for many years I tried to deny Him and deny His Word. But I thank Him today that HE showed me who He is; and that HE loves me and that HE has a purpose and plan for my life and for all those who will have trust and faith in Him!
Do I understand everything about Him, No, but I do know HE is quite real and what HE says, HE will do.
He has healed my family and HE is in the process of restoring our entire family, from my dad on down. We were one of the most fractured families. Thank you Jesus, HE restores lives!

Let me share one thing with you, I got caught up in the garbage that some professing christians say out there, and that really messed me up....so what did I do, I ask GOD to show me if HE were real and to show me in a way that HE knew I would trust and believe! HE did that too!

He is more than many "Christians" even know. It isn't enough to know about Jesus, HE wants a personal relationship with each one of us; it is what we were created for: to love and be loved by GOD and HE created us to be in fellowship with one another as well.

JC »

Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:30 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

To Ebcdic:

Dear one, I have to call you this, as I truly do love you. God has given me this love for others What evangelist would be effective without love? This is His gift (and sometimes I feel a burden) that He has given me.

Without love, all works are dead. You see, dear one, I have no choice to love you. I can't help it, it is they way He wants me. It is His gift.

The proof that you seek lies exactly here, with His love. Dear one, He does love you, more than you can possibly know. All you have to do is seek Him.

--------------------------------

Beloved, let me ask you one question: Are you willing to throw it all away because nobody has given you the proof that can only come from God?

He is the one that makes a life complete, not us.

His is a perfect love. He will not force us, He wants it to be our choice. Thus, as I said before, the choice is yours, and will always be yours. We can't make it for you. And we cannot know God for you. You are the only one who can have the personal relationship He so desires with you.

And, please dear one, don't tell me you are not searching. If you are not, then why are you here?

ebcdic »

Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

JC: "You like to invoke science, but have you ever thought about the full picture? The truth about reality is that scientists have yet to "scientifically" prove that this planet has evolved from nothing. They have yet to "scientifically" prove that we came from water, fish, apes, and then man."

No scientist ever said anything came from nothing. Please stop lying about scientists.

Scientists know how planets form and they know how life evolves. The magic (god) hypothesis is not necessary for anything. Do you think any educated person is going to take anything you say about science seriously? Believe in the magic man if you want, but please don't talk about what you know nothing about.

Also, please cut out this "Beloved" and "Dear One" nonsense. Coming from you that's very insulting.

Your "it is not too late for you" is a disgusting threat. You need to understand normal people (atheists) laugh at people who threaten people who don't share their weirdo delusions.

ebcdic »

Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

"He walks and talks with us everyday." Prove it.

ebcdic »

Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:33 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

333 & JC & tgender, I asked for evidence for your supernatural magic and you gave me nothing.

JC »

Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:37 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

To Ebcdic:

Beloved, the very God that you deny loves you very much. He showed us His love by dying for us in a most cruel manner.

You like to invoke science, but have you ever thought about the full picture? The truth about reality is that scientists have yet to "scientifically" prove that this planet has evolved from nothing. They have yet to "scientifically" prove that we came from water, fish, apes, and then man.

Therefore, since scientists cannot definitively tell us where this planet's origins are truly from, they are only working with half picture. Now answer me this, are you going to take somebodys word for it, knowing they are only working from half the puzzle? I would hope not, you sound more intelligent than that.

We, as Christians, do not base our knowledge in God on just His book, that would be absurd and no different than the Islamic religion. No, beloved, we base our knowledge on God on what He has revealed to us, in that He walks and talks with us everyday. This is not some kind of weird "karma" feeling we get, this is a one-on-one relationship. He has made himself known to us, and for us to deny Him, would be to deny the reality of our own lives.

Beloved, it is not too late for you. It is as simple as asking Him to make Himself real to you. It really is that simple. He died to show us His love and dedication to us, He is not going to make it difficult to find or know Him. All one has to do is ask.

Dear one, I feel I must at least tell you this; You will one day meet Jesus face to face. However, if you have rejected Him in this life, it will be the one and only time you will see Him. For after that, you will be sent to a place that you really do not want to go.

The choice is yours, and has always been yours. We are just pointers to the truth, not the truthmakers.

Chris333 »

Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:52 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

So ebc, we can sum up your entire critique of Christianity as, "Magic magic magic... magic can't exist because it is magic, and magic can't exist. Stupid magic, stupid stupid, magic"

It is funny, you actually have no argument at all, I wonder how long it took you to establish your entire worldview and position on this? Maybe what 10 seconds? But no, you know you are very convincing. Keep repeating magic, it makes your argument look really convincing!

No no, don't take offense at the above, I am congratulating you on a great job. I know the Christians are trembling in their shoes from your devastating arguments.

ebcdic »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

Ruling out magic is the same as ruling out insanity. Anyway, there could never be any evidence for magic. If you think there is evidence for magic, let's have it. Your wishful thinking, your holy book, and "it looks designed" is not evidence for anything.

tgender »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:08 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

ebcdic-
That's a rather close-minded approach wouldn't you say, to rule out a possibility before you even start examining the evidence?

ebcdic »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

"What if the evidence led to a supernatural explanation?"

Evidence for childish magic? Impossible. The reason I rule out magic is because science has a long history of chasing magic (god) out of its hiding places. Another reason I reject magic is because nothing could be more idiotic.

tgender »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:29 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

ebcdic-
“tgender, just one more thing about the question you asked. People who invoke god only do this because they are ignorant of the natural explanation.”

You’ve already admitted that you are also ignorant of the natural explanation for the origin of the universe, so I guess we’re in the same boat as far as you are concerned. Do you realize that you simply ASSUME that everything can be explained by natural causes? You have no rational reason to believe this—you simply take it for granted. You cannot prove that God does not exist. What if the evidence led to a supernatural explanation? Would you be willing to follow it? I thought true science would follow the evidence wherever it leads.

ebcdic »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

tgender, just one more thing about the question you asked. People who invoke god only do this because they are ignorant of the natural explanation. That's why god is called the philosophy of ignorance. Using the god hypothesis is a bad idea, because once people have decided god did it, they have no reason to look for the real solution. The god idea is a dead end. Invoking god makes human progress come to complete stop.

ebcdic »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

tgender: "To me, it seems like magic that the universe could pop into existence out of nothing with no cause. How would you explain that?"

What there was before the Big Bang may never be known. There's a natural reason for everything. If scientists can't solve a problem, they expect the problem will be solved some day, perhaps by somebody who hasn't been born yet. If a problem is never solved, who cares? The correct thing to do is say the natural explanation is unknown. Invoking magic (god) has never solved any problem. Magic is a childish idea for lazy people.

ebcdic »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

JC said to Hampstead Pete: "To blaspheme the Holy Spirit of God is unpardonable. What does this mean? People like to add a lot to this, but it is more simpler than you think. If you reject The Father, and likewise the Son, you can be forgiven. But to blaspheme (or reject) the Holy Spirit of God, then who is left? You've already rejected The Father, and then The Son. Therefore, come your death, when you stand in front of God, He will likewise reject you. "Depart from me, I never knew you". This is unpardonable, and will be an automatic entrance into Hell."

"Salavation: Salvation is easier to understand. We do not deserve to go to Heaven. Each of us has violated God's law and broken His commandments, and by His law, He would be just in sending each one to Hell. However, through the His grace and love, it is possible for us to abide with Him forever, and to avoid the due punishment that we truly deserve. This was done when Jesus bore the punishment for us while hanging on the cross."

I reject the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I deny these creatures exist and I laugh at the insane idea they do exist. The Hell that Christians like to threaten people with also does not exist. There is no magic man living in the clouds. Dead people are worm food and nothing else. They don't go anywhere. Their souls, whatever that is, don't go anywhere. There are no souls.

Reality is a wonderful thing. People who accept reality don't live their lives in a fantasy world like the Christians. They don't threaten people who don't agree with them with torture in a mythical hell. They make the best use of the only life they have, and they don't waste their life thinking about the crazy nonsense of life after death.

By the way, JC, your "the due punishment that we truly deserve" is disgusting. What a horrible way to live a life, thinking you deserve punishment. This is probably the most repulsive idea your religion has. It's all childish insane garbage.

tgender »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

ebcdic-
Care to answer my earlier question to your "magic man" comments? (it may have been in another thread)

To me, it seems like magic that the universe could pop into existence out of nothing with no cause. How would you explain that?

ebcdic »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spook are myths. Blasphemy is a victimless crime. There's nothing wrong with insulting a delusion.

Dana Jacobson did not owe anyone an apology. She should repeat her anti-Jesus remarks all she wants. People have been respecting other people's beliefs for too long. Why should anyone respect the Muslim Magic Man when there's suicide bombings every day? Why should anyone respect the Christian Magic Man when Christians are constantly attacking science education and spreading lies about science? God is just another word for magic. Magic belongs in the Dark Ages, not in the 21st century. There's no reason to respect any medieval ideas, including Jesus or any other god.

Schmippie »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:41 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

She's just a dumb-dumb.

JC »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:21 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

To Tgender:

Dear one, you are correct. But the opposite would be also. The Pharisees denied the Father, although they claimed that they followed Him. They had narrowed the definition of sin down so that they "no longer sinned". When Jesus showed up, he expanded it out to where it had originally been, that's why they hated Him so much. They were exposed to be the frauds that they were. But, in the end, they rejected Him, and killed Him.

These things they can be forgiven for.

However, when the Holy Spirit showed Himself through other people, the Pharisees rejected these as well, and ultimately the Holy Spirit himself.

When they died, their destination is obvious. They had rejected the Father, then the Son whom He sent, and then the Holy Spirit who the Son sent. There is none left.

Dear one, I don't believe that it is a literal blaspheme of the Holy Spirit that is being discussed. Everyone who was ever a fan Batman would be guilty. As children, we would run around in our capes (towels from the linen closet) and yell "Holy Toledo Batman". By the definition that some give, this is considered blaspheme. I disagree.

Beloved, the Bible is the beginning of wisdom, not the end.

Blacksho89 »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

As Christians, we gladly hold ourselves to a higher standard than the World holds itself to. So I agree, we must forgive Ms. Jacobson and offer her love.
We do not need to patronize her employer, however. There is a difference between forgiveness and support of the behavior.
Let the WORLD fire Don Imus; we hold ourselves higher and offer forgiveness instead.

anniefourjesus »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:21 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

"In this world you will have trouble; but be of good cheer for I (Jesus) have over come this world"! We are to FORGIVE; and nothing shall offend thee!!!!

We have been forgiven for so much; how could we not extend forgiveness. For those calling for her firing or anything else; what is Christ like about that?

Jesus could have fired the bunch of us and I mean literally, from the CROSS, HE could have rained down fire from Heaven and ended us right there and then; but He didn't because HE loves us; including Ms. Jacobson; and all the people we tend to think are unlovable.

Anger in your heart towards someone is comparable to MURDER in God's eyes.

Let us "imitate Christ" and extend loving forgiveness towards this woman and be a true follower of Jesus Christ and not reflect this world.

We are to follow Jesus not the world!

Why do we need an ANTI-Defamation League anyways...JESUS said we would be persecuted, the world hated HIM and it will hate us too! This is to expected by His children!

Okay all those who have not sinned today, you can toss more stones!!!

Imagine if we truly let the world see that followers of Jesus, truly follow HIS example, we are to have HIS attitude and mind! FORGIVENESS not Condemnation!!!

tgender »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

JC-
I agree with your comments (and also djem60’s) about forgiving this person.

I wanted to make a comment to your statement “If you reject The Father, and likewise the Son, you can be forgiven. But to blaspheme (or reject) the Holy Spirit of God, then who is left?” I don’t think it makes sense to say that one can reject one or two persons of the Trinity. I think this verse mentions the Holy Spirit specifically because Christ left the Holy Spirit as the Counselor who guides people on earth to the truth of who the triune God is. If one accepts the Holy Spirit’s witness, then that person will also accept the Father and the Son because that’s who the Holy Spirit testifies to.

JC »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:34 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

To all: Beloved, according to the Word of God, this person should be forgiven. If they were to ask Jesus for His forgiveness, it would be granted. How much more should the forgiven choose to forgive others?

And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. (Mark 12:10)

I don't think this person has committed the unpardonable sin.

We should pray that this one finds the one whom they slam. If they truly find Him, the slams and insults will stop as well.

-------------

To Hampstead Pete:

To blaspheme the Holy Spirit of God is unpardonable. What does this mean? People like to add a lot to this, but it is more simpler than you think. If you reject The Father, and likewise the Son, you can be forgiven. But to blaspheme (or reject) the Holy Spirit of God, then who is left? You've already rejected The Father, and then The Son. Therefore, come your death, when you stand in front of God, He will likewise reject you. "Depart from me, I never knew you". This is unpardonable, and will be an automatic entrance into Hell.

Salavation: Salvation is easier to understand. We do not deserve to go to Heaven. Each of us has violated God's law and broken His commandments, and by His law, He would be just in sending each one to Hell. However, through the His grace and love, it is possible for us to abide with Him forever, and to avoid the due punishment that we truly deserve. This was done when Jesus bore the punishment for us while hanging on the cross.

"That no man may boast".

MuggleBorn »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:13 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Actually, Imus is back on the air.

mcfbc »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:25 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

Slacker,
What does Don Imus have to do with this? Are you telling me that Christians should be taking their cue from the world on how to deal with this kind of a situation? What an incredible opportunity we have as Christians to show forgiveness. Do people here honestly believe that this woman deserves to be fired?

wrhalver »

Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:02 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Mr. Cass,

Remember that ratings mean everything.
If there is something on television we don't like, we stop watching it. The broadcaster will get the message. That goes for any media.

That applies to any media.

Slacker »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

"I have a real problem with all these Christians demanding she be fired. Whatever happened to forgiveness? "

Whatever happened to Don Imus? Oh yeah he was fired.... Think about it...

HampsteadPete »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

Oh yes, thank goodness she didn't dis the holy spirit (whatever that is), so she still has a shot at salvation (whatever that is).

djem60 »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:31 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

I too have a problem with asking that she be fired.
I am a Christian,Jesus is Lord.
Three things come to mind in this matter to me,
1-Peter denied Christ 3 times,he was used later in a mighty way.
2-The woman caught in adultery,Jesus said"He that is without sin,cast the first stone"
all the accusers left.
3-Paul actively persecuted the church before he was saved,and was later used in a mighty way.
It's not us that Ms.Jacobson will answer to on that final day,but the Lord Himself.
Hopefully & Prayerfully she will come to a saving knowledge of Christ in her lifetime.
She was out of line at this roast,but so is everyone who denies Jesus is Lord.
We dont ask that they be fired from their jobs.
There will be sheeps and goats,let us use our time to take as many sheeps in with us.

mcfbc »

Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:46 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 4

I have a real problem with all these Christians demanding she be fired. Whatever happened to forgiveness?