Born Again Christians Favor Democratic Candidates, Says Survey

Prophet »

Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:28 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

Scara,
You are right. But Jesus also told us to be a light unto the world...a city on a hill that can't be hid. We are to speak the truth. And He didn't say we shouldn't care about what went on here on earth.
I agree that things will get much worse, and probably soon. But not as soon as if we Christians sat around on our thumbs and did nothing. God expects us to have an effect on this world while we're here. After all, He did give this earth to us.

Scaramouche »

Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:31 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

Here's the real problem as I see it. Jesus said we were IN this world but not OF this world. He also said that if His kingdom WERE of this world "...then would my disciples fight". He also made a clear distinction between earthly governments and the Celestial one by saying that we were to "render unto Caesar what belongs to him but render unto God what belongs to Him". Furthermore, the books of Revelation, Daniel, the four Gospels, I&II Thessalonians and many others tell us this world is not going to get better but worse and eventually will end in fire...so why on earth are we so given to meddling with the stuff of earth? Let the heathens have this world and all its folly. Our citizenship is in Heaven! What are we trying to do; "help" God by voting for the "right" candidates so He can then rule and reign?!
Did God stop being sovereign when Bill Clinton sat on the throne? Was he more sovereign because GW Bush was a Republican? Why are we trying to vote in a candidate based on the issues of abortion and gay "marriage" when the Bible teaches that it's a renewed mind and not passed legislation that God is looking for. Let's witness to these folks and then get them saved. That's the one sure way to stop abortions and homosexuality in the good ol' USA and it's the one thing the church is conspicuously lacking in...TRUE WITNESS.
My personal feeling is that we vote folks into office so they can take the weight off of our shoulders in terms of fulfilling the Great Commission.
Bush had 8 years to issue an Executive Order to stop any and all abortions in the US but he didn't. Sure Congress would've overturned it but WHAT A WITNESS THAT WOULD'VE BEEN!
Let the state be the state and the Church the Church.
We were born here but our citizenship is in Heaven.

BoldEvangelical »

Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:24 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 7

In the Bible God said choose life: De 30:19 - "This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live."
God will judge those guilty of shedding innocent blood: De 19:13 - "Show him no pity. You must purge from Israel the guilt of shedding innocent blood, so that it may go well with you."
The Bible says the sin of homosexuality is detestable to God: Le 18:22 -
"'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
Being pro-life, pro-traditional marriage and anti-sodomy is being on God's side. Jesus said "You will always have the poor with you." So poverty is not paramount. I know, I've survived it. Although, I would never have survived abortion. Neither would I allow the schools to teach my children that sodomy is just another lifestyle...it is a detestable sin.
These values and positions on issues generally resonate with the Republican candidates.
Both Obama and Clinton are pro-abortion and pro-so-called homosexual marriage (state sanctioned sodomy). These are the anti-God positions. They contradict His law.
Christians are not here to make sinners feel good about their sins. We are here to call them to repentance and to take a stand against evil in society. The government is God's agent, Romans 1, and as such should not sanction what God calls sin.
A vote for Hillary or Obama is a vote for moral relativism and evil.

AllenJ »

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:20 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 4

Although I have always voted Republician, I only ID myself as a conservative. However, I have never seen a Democract that has my values. First of all, I am pro-life. Next, I am pro-family and pro-marriage between only a man and woman. These are the values I want my government to support. In addition to those values, I very much care about and minister to the poor through my church. I don't expect the goverment to do that. It is the role of the church not government. My church can get more value from my money in minstering to the poor than the goverment can get. Our government takes three dollars to get only one dollar of service to the needy. That is not good stewardship.

seedplanter »

Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:45 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

Statistics of Senators running for office by The American Conservative Union:

Obama
2006 – 8
2005 – 8
Years – 2
Life Time Voting Record – 8.0

Clinton
2006 – 8
2005 – 12
Years – 6
Life Time Voting Record – 9.0

McCain
2006 – 65
2005 – 80
Years – 20
Life Time Voting Record – 82.3

ACU tracks a wide variety of issues before Congress, ranging from taxes to spending and national security to abortion. Accordingly, our ratings encompass three general categories: (1) economic and budget matters; (2) social and cultural issues, and (3) defense and foreign policy. ACU endeavors to analyze votes from each category in order to obtain a balanced, comprehensive picture of an individual member's ideological predisposition based upon recorded records.
Each member of the House and Senate is rated on a scale of 0 to 100.
The purpose of the "Rating" is to inform the public, in as unbiased a method as possible, exactly where individual Senators and Members of the House stand on the ideological spectrum from liberal to conservative.

http://conservative.org/archive2/ratingssummary06.asp

anniefourjesus »

Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:00 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

Being born-again means that we are in this world but not of this world.

Amen Prophet! Just because a person claims they are born again, are they? When you are born of the Spirit, you walk in the Light as HE is in the Light; and The Word of God says that we should look at the FRUIT of a person's life; that will tell us if they are trusting and obeying God and His Word!
We are born of the flesh and the Spirit. You can know when a person is walking in obedience to God. This doesn't mean we are perfect; but we are being perfected.
How someone could look at the fruit of the democratic candidates lives and say they follow Jesus, I do not see this!
God tells us to not condemn ourselves by what we approve. When people get out there and say, Abortion is okay, sexual immorality is okay, this is not fruit of the Spirit.

When I look at a candidate, I look for someone who is following Jesus Christ; through their lifestyle as well as their talk!
I do not leave my faith at the door of the voting booth. I pray that God's man is elected and I ask The Holy Spirit to guide my choice!

God's will be done, not ours!

TWPeck »

Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

Getting back on track, it will be interesting to see where the vote goes as the "Born-agains" take a closer look at Mr. Obama and Ms. Clinton given their very liberal social stances - unregulated abortion, legalizing immorality, etc. Also, I heard Mr. Obama making lots of promises of give away programs that just did not make sense in terms of how this would be paid for.
Will be interesting...

song2vs4 »

Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:21 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

My relationship with Jesus Christ goes everywhere with me, it is not something I "check at the door", and NEVER WILL.

Prophet »

Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:11 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

cistonga,
You said "As an agnostic, I am here to see what Christian extremists are up to. My concern is the encroachment of religion into government, the courts and the schools. I am a strong advocate of separation of chruch & state. Please keep your religion where it belongs- r church & home. Believe what you will, but dont impose your religious views on others."

This is a Christian website, for Pete's sake! Of course you're gonna find Christians on here speaking the Word of God and their opnions. Duh. This isn't some radical, militant religious site that is used for orchestrating coups and such. Do you find conspiracies around every corner or what?
You are not here to "keep religion out of the government." You are here, as we are, to express your opinion....and nothing more. Quit being so melodramatic. You're just another person, with another opnion.
I could go onto an athiest website and say "My concern is the encroachment of the government into religion." But I don't. Because that would be a lie. Those people who are trying to keep religion out of government with the cry of "separation and church", are in the same breath trying to get the government to control religion. They want to government to control what we can and cannot say or believe. Sounds two-faced to me.

tgender »

Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:04 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

citsonga-
“As an agnostic, I am here to see what Christian extremists are up to. My concern is the encroachment of religion into government, the courts and the schools. I am a strong advocate of separation of chruch & state. Please keep your religion where it belongs- r church & home. Believe what you will, but dont impose your religious views on others.”

I wish you and other naturalists would realize how ridiculous this sounds. Atheism/secularism/humanism is just as much a religion as Christianity or Islam or Hinduism. There’s no such thing as neutrality regarding the kinds of questions that religion (or worldview) tries to answer. These questions include whether or not God exists, what kind of God exists, where/how did everything come from, what happens after we die, where do we get morality from, what is moral, how should we live, why is there evil and suffering, etc. Atheists have answers to each one of these questions and they very clearly affect their public policies and actions, just like it does Christians. All this talk about keeping morality and religion out of government is a smokescreen to avoid the real issue about what the right answers are to these questions. I wish you or some atheist would be honest enough to admit that.

citsonga »

Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

john: "Why do you [atheists] all come here ?"

As an agnostic, I am here to see what Christian extremists are up to. My concern is the encroachment of religion into government, the courts and the schools. I am a strong advocate of separation of chruch & state. Please keep your religion where it belongs- r church & home. Believe what you will, but dont impose your religious views on others.

Prophet »

Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

John,

No, they never leave.

John5796 »

Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:33 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Quote from below: "Born again" is in your boring book of fairy tales? That's nice. I still think growing up makes more sense than being born again.

Who's the one that needs to grow up? You have a Christian news website with a forum that is populated by immature atheists. Why do you all come here? Maybe what mommy taught you does not seem right, and your exploring Christianity? Hope so. If anyone should grow up, it is self centered, childish idiots like you that have nothing better to do than polluting this forum with your anti God attacks. I'm going to take a break from here for a while, and hopefully you people will find an atheist website where you can run your mouths about how stupid Christianity is amongst yourselves. Over and out for a few months.

jesus4me »

Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Bob wrote:

John5796: "It's all in the bible."

"Born again" is in your boring book of fairy tales? That's nice. I still think growing up makes more sense than being born again. "


Oh, and Bob, before I forget, the next time you call the Word of God "your borig book of fairy tales" just remember to check your history in context, and make extra sure that you read up on the nuber one book in all of humanity to be printed, sold and translated - The Holy Bible; God's infallible, inspired Word and Will for all of mankind. You may choose to reject Him and His words, but you know what, He still loves you, and gave His Son Jesus Christ so that you may have a relationship with God the Father. Today if you hear the voice of the Lord thru His Word, do not harden your heart; rather, repent ad give your life to the Creator God of the Universe and believ on His So Jesus Christ- the One and Only Way to God.

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
John 3:2-4 (in Context) John 3 (Whole Chapter)
John 3:7
Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
John 3:6-8 (in Context) John 3 (Whole Chapter)
1 Peter 1:23
having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
1 Peter 1:22-24 (in Context) 1 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter)

Prophet »

Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

bob,
John Chapter 3.
"Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'
8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

See, you, like Nicodemus, are thinking that being born again is a physical act. Jesus points out that it is not. You are born into the flesh the first time, and unless you are reborn into the spirit, you will not see heaven.

Prophet »

Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Slacker,
I am sorry for what I said. You didnt have quotes around it the first time, so I thought that it was your viewpoint. You don't necessarily have to say who quoted it, but if it had quotations around it, I would have known that you were taking it from someone elses post. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.
I thad me confused, too. LOL. You were saying one thing in one paragraph, and then contradicting yourself in the next. I just figured you were just slightly mentally imbalanced..lol. I'm glad to see I was wrong about that.

John5796 »

Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:11 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

Someone said: "I don't understand this concept "Born Again"
It's all in the bible. But then again, you have be intelligent enough to know how to read. I suggest you get a picture bible.

jesus4me »

Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:40 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

No problem Slacker, just please, in the future when you quote someone, put down who you're quoting, so we don't think you're mixing in with the non-believers, atheists, and the left-wing looney liberal christians, on this board. I (We) forgive you brother.

jesus4me »

Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:37 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Prophet wrote:

"Wow, and I was beginning to think that Slacker was a Christian. Boy was I wrong."

Prophet, I believe he is a Christian; I think he just left out the name of who he was quoting before. Believe me, I was confused by his post as well, but this is what he wrote after my response to him:

Slacker worte:
"I was quoting tgender from several post ago...."


and

"Sorry I left out the quote marks i appologize for the confusion...."

Slacker »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

"Oh, and Slacker, before I forget, you said the Bible was the "largest outdated book in human history". Next time you check your history in context, make sure you read up on the nuber one book in all of humanity to be printed, sold and translated - The Holy Bible; God's infallible, inspired Word and Will for all of mankind. You may choose to reject Him and His words, but you know what, He still loves you, and gave His Son Jesus Christ so that you may have a relationship with God the Father. Today if you hear the voice of the Lord thru His Word, do not harden your heart; rather, repent ad give your life to the Creator God of the Universe and believ on His So Jesus Christ- the One and Only Way to God. "

I agree with this 100%, I give my creator 100% of the glory, his is what sustains me thru out and I praise him everyday for the grace and mercy that he showed me by saving my from my sins....

Slacker »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I was quoting tgender from several post ago....

"If someone lives by the word of God it is not shoving anything down anyones throut, it is living by the truth, just because you don't see it as that way doesn't mean that Jesus4me is doing anything wrong...


who said it was wrong? i just said it's annoying and condescending the way jesus4me is throwing around bible verses towards someone who more than likely is well aware of what the bible says. It's like jesus4me is trying to be like jesus and fish for men when there is no fishing to be done. And i hate it when people try to put jesus in everything. Who are you to decide whether jesus is a part of something or not? Who are you to demand people to believe in your faith? Let people find God in their own way, don't throw verses from the largest outdated book in human history. And yes it is outdated, why do you think it can't answer the abortion question or gay marriage? People like jesus4me need to get the angel dust out of their eyes and adapt to the times. THAT is how to best embody Jesus and His teachings. He was the Great Adapter, and His parables are my proof. "

This was my response....

How in the world can you live by Jesus's principle's if you yourself say that his book is outdated... If you would bother to read the bible you would know that God values life and that homosexuality is a Sin, but being that it comes from an "outdated" book how in the world can you also use Jesus parables, and you call me Lazy... Please...

Sorry I left out the quote marks i appologize for the confusion....

jesus4me »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:43 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Lastly, Slacker wrote:

"THAT is how to best embody Jesus and His teachings. He was the Great Adapter, and His parables are my proof."

1. Matthew 7:13
[ The Narrow Way ] “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Matthew 7:12-14 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)
2. Matthew 7:14
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Matthew 7:13-15 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)
3. Luke 13:24
“Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Luke 13:23-25 (in Context) Luke 13 (Whole Chapter)



Oh, and Slacker, before I forget, you said the Bible was the "largest outdated book in human history". Next time you check your history in context, make sure you read up on the nuber one book in all of humanity to be printed, sold and translated - The Holy Bible; God's infallible, inspired Word and Will for all of mankind. You may choose to reject Him and His words, but you know what, He still loves you, and gave His Son Jesus Christ so that you may have a relationship with God the Father. Today if you hear the voice of the Lord thru His Word, do not harden your heart; rather, repent ad give your life to the Creator God of the Universe and believ on His So Jesus Christ- the One and Only Way to God.

jesus4me »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:38 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Furthermore, Slacker wrote:

"People like jesus4me need to get the angel dust out of their eyes and adapt to the times."

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
2 Timothy 4:2-4 (in Context) 2 Timothy 4 (Whole Chapter)
Result pages:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.

jesus4me »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:36 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Slacker also wrote:

"And yes it is outdated, why do you think it can't answer the abortion question or gay marriage?"

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.


9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Footnotes:

1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites


and,

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

jesus4me »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:34 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Slacker wrote:

"Let people find God in their own way, don't throw verses from the largest outdated book in human history."

John 14:6 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.


6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Prophet »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:15 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Wow, and I was beginning to think that Slacker was a Christian. Boy was I wrong.

Prophet »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:13 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

orange,
"I am saying that using god to excuse the horrors of your actions is deplorable...." Yes, the "horrors" of my actions. Helping the needy. Raking leaves and shoveling snow for the elderly and disabled, working with Special Olympics, loving my neighbor, living a life of integrity....ALL TRULY HORRIBLE! God have mercy on my soul!
But you and I both know that is not horrible. So your evaluation of Christians is askew. All because we do those things...and then we have the gall to have an opinion about morality. If we would just keep our mouths shut, we would be the perfect little religious robots that society wants: People who help others, but have no opinion or convictions.
But that's religion. I'm not religious, and God is not a religion.

Slacker »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

I have researched Obama and I have seen the video where he did NOT salute the flag, if you believe Snoop.com you would be just about anything.... Please you have the audacity to call me lazy but you believe that Rag....

Slacker »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

If someone lives by the word of God it is not shoving anything down anyones throut, it is living by the truth, just because you don't see it as that way doesn't mean that Jesus4me is doing anything wrong...


who said it was wrong? i just said it's annoying and condescending the way jesus4me is throwing around bible verses towards someone who more than likely is well aware of what the bible says. It's like jesus4me is trying to be like jesus and fish for men when there is no fishing to be done. And i hate it when people try to put jesus in everything. Who are you to decide whether jesus is a part of something or not? Who are you to demand people to believe in your faith? Let people find God in their own way, don't throw verses from the largest outdated book in human history. And yes it is outdated, why do you think it can't answer the abortion question or gay marriage? People like jesus4me need to get the angel dust out of their eyes and adapt to the times. THAT is how to best embody Jesus and His teachings. He was the Great Adapter, and His parables are my proof.

How in the world can you live by Jesus's principle's if you yourself say that his book is outdated... If you would bother to read the bible you would know that God values life and that homosexuality is a Sin, but being that it comes from an "outdated" book how in the world can you also use Jesus parables, and you call me Lazy... Please...

tgender »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:25 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

agentorange-
I agree with you that many, many people have done evil things through the centuries in the name of God. But it doesn’t follow that all things done in the name of God are wrong just because some of them are. It is entirely possible that some (even many) things done in the name of God are right and true and are done with God’s blessing. We must use our God-given abilities to discern which of the many competing so-called revelations of God really is the true one and then follow that. And just so you know, unlike in the Koran in which it says that all infidels are to submit or be killed, the God of the Bible gave no such general command for Christians to kill all unbelievers. In fact, we are to love our enemies (even in the face of persecution).

agentorange »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:47 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prophet,

“Yes, agentorange,
WWI, WWII, The Korean War, The Vietnam War, The Revolutionary War, etc, etc....all are the result of religion”

No, I am not saying that. I am saying that using god to excuse the horrors of your actions is deplorable and this is exactly what many have done throughout time and the actions of moses using god are no different.

WiccanTexan »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:42 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

nemjbs, Obama has denounced Louis Farrakhan's views and disagrees with the church's award. You cannot control every aspect of a person's personal views, even a spiritual mentor.

Prophet »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:20 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

If Hitler truly believed what you say he believed, he would have stopped with the Jews. But he showed his true intentions. Which were not even remotely religious.

Prophet »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:18 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Yes, agentorange,
WWI, WWII, The Korean War, The Vietnam War, The Revolutionary War, etc, etc....all are the result of religion.

agentorange »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:47 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

tgender,

“Those people were not innocent. God had judged their wickedness and was punishing them for it. There's no contradiction here. Your issue seems to be that you don't want God doing the judging, but since He's the Creator, He's also the Judge.”

What nonsense. People have used ‘god’ as their justification for some of the worse acts man has ever done. Osama bin laden and his terrorists use the ‘orders of gods will’ as a justification to fly buildings into towers, blow up churches and Buddhist temples and buildings. This is the same sort of ratnale that led to the crusades and for the Spanish conquistadors to baptize a native baby before bashing it’s brain in.

In Mein Kamp Hitler refered his actions of anti-Semitism directly b/c the ‘jews killed jesus’ and that he was ‘acting in accordance with the creator’. He even further reiterated this in public speeches in Reattach, Munich and others.

I am sorry tdgender, but anytime ANYONE uses ‘god told me so’ as an excuse to commit horrors and despotism onto humanity they can’t be taken seriously.

They use ‘god made me do you it’ as a ploy to excuse their actions, as if they have no control in the matter. It’s the grossly similar to the account of the Nuremberg trials where Nazi generals and subordinates said ‘they were just following orders from other high ranking officials’. This sort of subterfuge is an attempt to make us believe they weren’t the ones doing the killing, but they were. This is the same ploy employed by your book and many others that use ‘god’ as their excuse to kill and do as they please.

They could have took a stance as a ‘conscious objector’ like those in Vietnam, but naa. It’s much funner to go on a rampage and ‘kill every male young and old and all non-virgin women and girls in site, while keeping all the virgins for themselves’ just as mosses orders his legions to do early on in the OT.

‘thou shalt not kill’….oh… unless of course you’re killing non-jews in some other land that was never yours to begin with. ‘thou shalt not kill’ was like all the other OT laws and they ONLY applied to the Jews.

Ya that now that makes sense!

How do the acts of Moses and Joshua’s legions or any of the rampaging in the bible differ from any other maniac rampages of the Vistigoths, Mongols, Vikings, etc.? well, those latter ones didn’t use god as an excuse for their horrors, otherwise they are the same in every nasty detail. You think that putting ‘god made me do it’ in front of any action somehow excuses it, but it does not. It only speaks of how barbaric the sand nomads were and their attempt to rationalize it with their god.

nemjbs »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:19 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I am shocked to see the high number of born again Christians that support Obama. Obama says he is a Christian and has attended Trinity United Church in Chicago for twenty years. Obama credits the senior minister Rev, Jeremiah Wright with leading him to Christ and says Rev. Wright is his spiritual advisor. The church has a magazine The Trumpet and last year it awarded The Rev. Jeremiah Wright Trumpeter Award to a man it said "truly epoiomized greatness." That man is Louis Farrakhan. I do not want my President seeking spiritual counsel from someone who thinks that Louis Farrakhan is a "truly great man."

WiccanTexan »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:00 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Side note: Mitt Romney just dropped out of the race.

tgender »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:56 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

agentorange-
"Ya, just so long as you're not the inhabitants of Canaan before Moses comes to concur you. Also, what about all those they were 'utterly put to death by the sword' while moses and his legions were on their wat to Canaan?"

Those people were not innocent. God had judged their wickedness and was punishing them for it. There's no contradiction here. Your issue seems to be that you don't want God doing the judging, but since He's the Creator, He's also the Judge.

agentorange »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:52 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

"Murdering innocent persons is everywhere condemned in Scripture. "

Ya, just so long as you're not the inhabitants of Canaan before Moses comes to concur you. Also, what about all those they were 'utterly put to death by the sword' while moses and his legions were on their wat to Canaan?

agentorange »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:47 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

WiccanTexan,

Slacker: ""I refuse to back a president that doesn't salute the flag (obama)"

Seriously, good point Wiccan.

Too many people are too lazy and not willing to check things out to ensure they're true. Most (like Slacker) assumed that the event in which Obama didn't have his hand over his heart and wasn't singing the 'Pledge of Allegence' was true. As it appears, his name 'slacker' really lives up to his outlook, next time don't slack and check your sources...always.

Little did they realize that the song WASN'T the pledge of allegence and thus logically he couldn't have sung it! DuH!

i've also heard nonsense about Obama being (somehow) muslim???....wrong again, he was born to a muslim father, but really neither of his parents are overly religious anymore and are more so spritual.

Prophet »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:00 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? Matthew 19:4-5

Yep, sounds pretty cut and dried. No reference to any "homosexual mates" or "life partners", etc. Marriage is a big thing to God, and if homosexual marriages were okay, I'm sure He would have made that apparent. But it seems that reading into the scripture that which is not there is a common ploy among those who do not want to change, and who have no desire to attain to the image of Christ. People like that are "Christians" who just want to play church, not have anything expected of them, and live the life that they want to live. Basically: LAZY. They want the Word of God, and God Himself, to change into their image...to fit their agenda. Basically: IDOLATRY.

So, there you have a bunch of lazy idolatrous christians giving Christianity a bad name. God help us.

Prophet »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:47 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Apparently He Who Thinks is offended by the Word of God. As it is said it would. If he doesn't like reading all those scriptures, would someone inform him that he can just scroll down past them without reading them? I'm sorry for assuming that he knew to do that, but apparently not.

"Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "
Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"
He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

Matthew 15:10-14

jesus4me »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:28 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Jesus Christ and all the Apostles, as well as the new testament are pretty clear that gay unions are outside of God's perfect Will. You can't argue that or wiggle your way out of that one ifeelfine; no matter how much you try to water down your interpretation of Scripture.

jesus4me »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:26 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

ifeelfine wrote:

"jesus4me cares about stuff that Jesus never talked about and is strangely silent on the stuff that was important to Jesus. "

Obviously, the Apostle Paul who was confronted by the Risen Lord Jesus Christ himself. spoke about what was important to Jesus.

Did not the Apostle Paul condemn active Homosexual behavior in Romans and his Letter to the Corinthian Church? Obviously that struck a nerve with you ifeelfine, because Jesus does feel strongly about that specific subject, and that is the subject which I have been patiently trying to exhort you on for several months now. See, your previous responses to me don't address your clear approval of Gay uniopns even while being Christian. Now I think it is you who needs to get a clue my friend.

tgender »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:10 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

He Who Thinks-
“It's like jesus4me is trying to be like jesus and fish for men when there is no fishing to be done.”
There’s always fishing to be done. Either people need to put their trust in Jesus for the first time or they need to grow to become His true disciple.

“And i hate it when people try to put jesus in everything. Who are you to decide whether jesus is a part of something or not?”
The Bible is pretty clear that Jesus created everything, sustains everything, and has authority over all things. See Col 1:15-20, Phil 2:5-11, Matt 28:18-20 for just a few examples.

“Who are you to demand people to believe in your faith? Let people find God in their own way, don't throw verses from the largest outdated book in human history.”
Christians didn’t make this stuff up. This is God’s revelation to man and we are to proclaim it to the world so that all people will know. Don’t view this as forcing our faith on you, but as letting you know of a cure to your terminal illness (the same one that all humans suffer from--separation from God due to our sin).

“And yes it is outdated, why do you think it can't answer the abortion question or gay marriage?”
I’m not sure what you’re talking about here. The Bible is very clear that God ordained marriage to be between one man and one woman (Gen 2:24 and many other passages). That abortion is wrong is easily seen from Biblical principles. Man is made in the image of God and God creates each of us in other mother’s womb. Murdering innocent persons is everywhere condemned in Scripture.

ifeelfine72 »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:18 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

jesus4me cares about stuff that Jesus never talked about and is strangely silent on the stuff that was important to Jesus.

WiccanTexan »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:56 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

"I refuse to back a president that doesn't salute the flag (obama)"

Slacker, you'd refuse to back a candidate because you're too lazy to do some very basic fact-checking? Try Snopes.com for this urban legend; Obama has never refused to salute the flag.

He Who Thinks »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:40 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

i believe people on here need to stop living in the middle ages. Newsflash: the crusades failed, the inquisition failed, televangelism failed. ADAPT!!

He Who Thinks »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:38 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

If someone lives by the word of God it is not shoving anything down anyones throut, it is living by the truth, just because you don't see it as that way doesn't mean that Jesus4me is doing anything wrong...


who said it was wrong? i just said it's annoying and condescending the way jesus4me is throwing around bible verses towards someone who more than likely is well aware of what the bible says. It's like jesus4me is trying to be like jesus and fish for men when there is no fishing to be done. And i hate it when people try to put jesus in everything. Who are you to decide whether jesus is a part of something or not? Who are you to demand people to believe in your faith? Let people find God in their own way, don't throw verses from the largest outdated book in human history. And yes it is outdated, why do you think it can't answer the abortion question or gay marriage? People like jesus4me need to get the angel dust out of their eyes and adapt to the times. THAT is how to best embody Jesus and His teachings. He was the Great Adapter, and His parables are my proof.

ifeelfine72 »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:24 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Jesus4me: So because of my comment, you are saying that I am not a Christian? That is exactly my point! You need to get a clue!!!! I am a Christian, I am saved, I am going to heaven when I die. You clearly have some issues that you need to work out as obviously from the strong reaction you gave, I clearly struck a nerve with you. Incidentally, I've said before that I don't think abortion is right, I believe that it is against God but that is my opinion - the Bible isn't specific about abortion. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Jesus was not conservative, he was nothing of the sort. He was a liberal and a liberator.

BTW: That entire post wasn't directed towards Prophet - I was only commenting on his post about the Word not changing. Clearly it doesn't but Christian's interpretation of it does - and that is a fact!