Sunday, November 08, 2009 Last Update:11:25 am ET

World|Fri, Feb. 08 2008 08:08 AM EST

Top Anglican's Sharia Comments Draw Heavy Criticism

By Maria Mackay|Christian Post Correspondent

The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Rowan Williams, faced heavy criticism after stating that the introduction of some aspects of Sharia law in Britain was “unavoidable.”

Speaking to the BBC on Thursday, the Archbishop called for a "constructive accommodation" for Muslims in areas relating to marriage, divorce, custom and inheritance, pointing to the fact that other religious communities already enjoy the accommodation of their laws in Britain.

Sharia is the body of Islamic religious law based on the teachings of the Koran and the Prophet Mohammad, and which has developed over centuries to incorporate the rulings of Islamic scholars.

Asked if the adoption of Sharia was necessary for community cohesion, Williams said, "It seems unavoidable.”

"Certain conditions of Sharia are already recognized in our society and under our law, so it is not as if we are bringing in an alien and rival system,” he noted.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown's office has distanced itself from the Archbishop’s comments, however. The Prime Minister “believes that British laws should be based on British values,” Brown’s spokesman stressed, according to the BBC.

Home Office Minister Tony McNulty commented, "To ask us to fundamentally change the rule of law and to adopt Sharia law, I think, is fundamentally wrong."

Culture Secretary Andy Burnham joined the chorus of condemnation, saying, "You cannot run two systems of law alongside each other. That would be a recipe for chaos."

Criticism also came in from other parties. The Conservative Community Cohesion Minister Baroness Warsi told the BBC, “Dr. Williams seems to be suggesting that there should be two systems of law, running alongside each other, almost parallel, and for people to be offered the choice of opting into one or the other. That is unacceptable.”

Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg agreed that Britain should not set up different laws for different people.

“Equality before the law is part of the glue that binds our society together. We cannot have a situation where there is one law for one person and different laws for another,” he said.

"There is a huge difference between respecting people's right to follow their own beliefs and allowing them to excuse themselves from the rule of law."

The chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, Trevor Phillips, went further in his criticism, warning that the “implication that British courts should treat people differently based on their faith is divisive and dangerous.”

The Archbishop was not without support. Mohammed Shafiq, the head of the Ramadhan Foundation, said, "Sharia law for civil matters is something which has been introduced in some western countries with much success.”

"I believe that Muslims would take huge comfort from the government allowing civil matters to be resolved according to their faith,” he added.

Williams stressed that he was not endorsing the wholesale adoption of Sharia or the practical manifestations of the legal system as seen in some countries such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, where murderers and drug traffickers are publicly beheaded or hanged.

"Nobody in their right mind would want to see in this country the kind of inhumanity that has sometimes been associated with the practice of the law in some Islamic states, the extreme punishments, the attitudes to women," he said.

Safeguards would be necessary, he stressed.

“I think it would be quite wrong to say that we could ever license so to speak a system of law for some communities which gave people no right of appeal, no way of exercising the rights that are guaranteed to them as citizens in general.”

Muslims should have a choice in legal disputes over marriage and financial matters, Williams said.

"There are ways of looking at marital dispute, for example, which provide an alternative to the divorce courts as we understand them,” he noted. “In some cultural and religious settings they would seem more appropriate."

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  • Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The Terrorist Network in America, 1991-2007
    http://www.investigativeproject.org/maps.php

  • Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Also, john14-6 posted a great YouTube video that I watched. I disagree with parts of it, I think it purposefully tries to paint an irrationally negative picture of Islam in order to create fear, but I still think it is worth watching. It is my hope that I might be able to visit the churches shown in the video someday. (BTW, this mornings “Day Of Discovery” program, by conservative RBC, showed the same cave church Cairo location in their program, in a more positive light, with an American research team visiting; part of their 3-part series on the church in Africa. The program is, as far as I can see, not available directly online, but a link to their site is also provided below, and can be obtained as a DVD.)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36TNd3c0K8Q&feature=related
    http://www.rbc.org/radio_and_tv/day_of_discovery/60100.aspx

  • Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Somebody flagged my last post and all of john14-6 posts (which I think very unfortunate, since I thought it a great discussion we were having), anyway, I’m reposting here my post that had been flagged. Whoever it was who flagged them - STOP IT!

    --------------

    john14-6,

    I don’t see where the subject has changed, and irrational fear of Islam has everything to do with the hysteria surrounding the Archbishops comments. You can call it “wisdom”, but it’s fear plain and simple.

    You mention, “we, as Christians, do not want to have any truck with Islam or ever allow it to gain a foothold in our nations.” Well, I’m sorry to tell you that several million of them are already here in the USA and UK, and they’re here to stay. They don’t want to convert to Christianity, and they want to be Muslims, and worship as Muslims, just as you want to worship as a Christian. What are you going to do? Hey, lets put some options on the table.

    1. Forced conversion to Christianity. it’s been done before. They do it to Christians in their countries, we’ll do it them in ours (that kind of thing).

    2. Demand that they live the way we want them to live. Of course this won’t work. How can we ask for prayer in schools if it is only Christian prayer and not Islamic. How can we demand a Christian voice in politics if we don’t also have an Islamic one, unless we want to have religious “Jim Crow” laws, separate but equal, in which the Christians get to be the bigots, and the Muslims will be the next civil rights movement.

    3. Deport them; send them to Egypt, even if they’re American or UK citizens. Get rid of them. (Just like some want to do with all the illegal immigrants.)

    4. Exterminate them (God forbid!)

    5. Live with them, and accommodate for them, just as we require that they live with and accommodate us.

    You need to understand that your concept of “There can be no peace with Islam… there is only temporary truce” is wrong headed. People are people everywhere you go. Islam is not so monolithic as you make it out to be. It has different ideas, interpretations, left and right extremes, just as Christianity does, and we need to work with those willing to work instead of forcing them, and us, into polarities. Just as the Archbishop had lectured.

  • Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    England, I think Shara law make a lot of sense.

    1) Capital punish for "insulting" Muhammad which is often as minor a sharing the gospel with a Muslim.
    2) No building can be taller than the mosque so destroy all churches.
    3) No additional church can be built.
    4) No Christian man can marry a Muslim woman.
    5) Capital punishment for any Muslin converting to Christianity
    6) All Christian must pay an additional tax to the mosque.

    The archbishop may claim to be close to Jesus but then so did Judas!

  • Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:17 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Voice from Indonesia, a nation with largest Muslim population

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Dont be be a naive and clumsy defenders in front of hordes of resolute attacking enemy who do not fear death and expect 72 virgins for each suicide bombers in their so called heavens.

  • Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:58 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Question: Dear scholars, As-Salamu `alaykum. I want to know the ruling on participating in the City Council of our local city in the US. The roles of City Council are: looking into the needs, legislating and voting upon decisions of city concern. Jazakum Allah khayran!

    Answer (portion): "The Shari`ah does not forbid Muslims to live in non-Islamic states. There are more than four hundred million Muslims in the world (almost one-third of the total population) who are living as minorities in non-Islamic countries. Some of them are the natives of these countries and some of them have migrated to these countries for better educational, economic and other reasons. (Source: www.Islamonline.net)

    The scholar did not elaborate on what those “other reasons” were, and though many have fallen asleep in the lap of Delilah, there are those who understand.

  • Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:33 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    john14-6,

    I don’t see where the subject has changed, and irrational fear of Islam has everything to do with the hysteria surrounding the Archbishops comments. You can call it “wisdom”, but it’s fear plain and simple.

    You mention, “we, as Christians, do not want to have any truck with Islam or ever allow it to gain a foothold in our nations.” Well, I’m sorry to tell you that several million of them are already here in the USA and UK, and they’re here to stay. They don’t want to convert to Christianity, and they want to be Muslims, and worship as Muslims, just as you want to worship as a Christian. What are you going to do? Hey, lets put some options on the table.

    1. Forced conversion to Christianity. it’s been done before. They do it to Christians in their countries, we’ll do it them in ours (that kind of thing).

    2. Demand that they live the way we want them to live. Of course this won’t work. How can we ask for prayer in schools if it is only Christian prayer and not Islamic. How can we demand a Christian voice in politics if we don’t also have an Islamic one, unless we want to have religious “Jim Crow” laws, separate but equal, in which the Christians get to be the bigots, and the Muslims will be the next civil rights movement.

    3. Deport them; send them to Egypt, even if they’re American or UK citizens. Get rid of them. (Just like some want to do with all the illegal immigrants.)

    4. Exterminate them (God forbid!)

    5. Live with them, and accommodate for them, just as we require that they live with and accommodate us.

    You need to understand that your concept of “There can be no peace with Islam… there is only temporary truce” is wrong headed. People are people everywhere you go. Islam is not so monolithic as you make it out to be. It has different ideas, interpretations, left and right extremes, just as Christianity does, and we need to work with those willing to work instead of forcing them, and us, into polarities. Just as the Archbishop had lectured.

  • Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:13 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Rowan Williams says that he had been misquoted / misinterpreted and did not expect backlash. It shows that he is so detached with the reality, and do not know what is the British sentiment on this issue. As a theologian, it is embarassing to know that he is so much locked up in the ivory tower, detaching with reality, and what happening around the Muslim world.

    He should be posted to the the countries where they practise shariah law. Perhaps, in the next Lambert Conference, the bishops should suggest him to be posted to Saudi Arabia, Iran or Iraq as the Anglican bishop there, and live under the rule of shariah law.

    Williams is the man who would sell his birthright for a bowl of soup. What is the use of he gaining world, when he is about to lose his soul now!

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:26 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Here is some clarifying information on what the Archbishop actually said: http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/1581

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Life in Cairo is hard, I knew that. When I was in Lebanon, I saw things like that, only with a lot more shell holes in them. But there things were the other way around. The Maronite Catholics and Sunni Muslims lived in the nicer parts of town; the Shia Muslims lived in slums.

    Since you read the archbishops lecture, what does this have to do with what he said? Nothing. Your logic needs some work.

    “But we're all just paranoid wackos, right?”

    Yup.

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:14 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Here is God's nature.
    When cold and warm air masses come against each other, you get a storm.
    The greater the differences in the air masses, the greater the storm.

    Each air mass is what it is, there is no compromise.
    This is the nature of God.

    So then God made two opposing forces represented in Christ and Satan. Just as with the weather, there are times of quieter storms and times of violent storms. Although we know what happens in the end, the war is not yet over. We must have faith.

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Question: Dear scholars, As-Salamu `alaykum. I want to know the ruling on participating in the City Council of our local city in the US. The roles of City Council are: looking into the needs, legislating and voting upon decisions of city concern. Jazakum Allah khayran!

    Answer (portion): “…I believe that as Muslims, we should participate in the system to safeguard our interests and try to bring gradual change for the right cause, the cause of truth and justice. We must not forget that Allah's rules have to be established in all lands, and all our efforts should lead to that direction…." (Source: www.Islamonline.net)

    May prayer and fasting go forth unto God for a mighty revival throughout the American Muslim population, a revival that will give them a new agenda, glorifying Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God. Moreover, may God intervene and stop the “gradual change” in America that many desire to establish.

    Biblical world view: 2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    rolln4him & john14-6,

    Fear - one word that sums up both of your posts. You guys are in stark naked fear of a caricature of Islam. “Brutality is the Islamic way; they''re just quietly waiting in the wings of America to jump at the chance for take over just like their doing in the UK.” Really? Wow! Muslims make up what 1% of the USA population; do you think they’re getting ready to do a coup, or that they might get elected to office in mass?

    Get real man!

    john14-6 said, “they will use his words and twist them even further than the media did, to show that the cringing "dhimmi" Christian Archbishop has "recognized the superiority of Muslim Law" or something like that. In fact, I would not be surprised if on the front page of every Muslim paper from Algeria to Saudi Arabia, to Turkey to Afghanistan, there wasn't a front page story with words to that effect.”

    Well let’s take a look. Al-Jazeera, the most popular news source in the Muslim world, the Fox News of Islam, has this: http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C084F110-DFAD-4450-B725-EF25094F3A5E.htm Hmm, what let down. I had expected fire too shoot out of my computer and consume me with the blaze of glorious Sharia law, but I got bored instead. Where’s the fireworks you’re talking about?

    You just want him to resign because you want to advance your own wacko ideology, not because he’s a wacko. The calls for his resignation are based on the hysteria, and misrepresentations of what he said produced by the media.


    “You seem to be in the minority, here. A minority of one.”

    Well, at least I’m in the right.

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:05 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    didymus

    You need to actually read my whole comment. The difference between Christians who aim to convert and the Muslims who aim to convert is that the Christians don't threaten you with your life. You better start reading the headlines. Brutality is the Islamic way; they''re just quietly waiting in the wings of America to jump at the chance for take over just like their doing in the UK. Wake UP!

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:01 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Rowan Williams should concern himself with the demise within his own communion rather than poking his nose in civil affairs.

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:45 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Rowan Williams is a failure and an embarrassment.

    We've already seen that he's willing to sell out Anglican christianity to bigots and barbarians who want to dictate third world superstition to the West. And now we find he's willing to sell out British civil law and British civil democracy too.

    Resign!

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    wilderness, Do you realize that referencing the worldnutdaily discredits your… ahh, why bother?

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    dgnymn, your comment, “…with his completely unabashed support for Sharia Law”, shows us the fact that you didn’t even bother to skim read over what the Archbishop actually said. You post with excessive ignorance.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:15 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    'Resign,' clergy tell Archbishop of Canterbury
    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=55898

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:09 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    With all due respect, the Archbishop is OUT TO LUNCH!!! COMPLETELY!!! WITHOUT A DOUBT!!! What is he, now, a MOUTHPIECE for the Islama-Fascists?? One can only wonder, but it is evident that he has lost touch with most of the free world with his completely unabashed support for Sharia Law which is one of the world's most repressive Laws. And forget that nonsense that the Muslims give you!!! THIS IS THE LAW THEY WANT ORDAINED ACROSS THE WORLD!!! HELLO, IS ANYONE OUT THERE?????

    COMING TO A THEATRE NEAR YOU, if we don't WAKE UP SOON!!!!

    REPENT, FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!!!!

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:08 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    didymus is right, people should read the whole lecture before commenting and not just join in with the popular press's attempts to sensationalize it!

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:53 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    I am most appalled to hear the Archbishop utters such a statement. Being an Anglican in a predominantly a Muslim country, we have so much issues where the Shariah laws infringes our rights, though the country is run by parallel laws. We have been witnessing where, our non-Muslim were 'purportedly converted' without the family members knowledge, had their 'corpse' confiscated from the funeral, leaving many of the non-Muslims have no say about this or even to raise up this issue. When one of the spouses gets married to a Muslim, they are relinquished from the responsibility of their first marriage (and the children), leaving the non-Muslim spouse and children in a limbo. We are asked not to exhibit crucifixes in our missionary schools, at times Bibles are confiscated at the airport, banning our Bibles in native languages, the church steeple should be taller than the mosque's minaret in that specific towns, no exhibition of crosses on the steeple for newly built church, difficulty of obtaining permits to build churches and many more.

    I am totally embarrased and appalled with the Archbishop. Doesn't he know that when he was in this country in 2006, his so-called inter-religious dialogue was cancelled. If he cant do the job of preaching the word of God to those who are unreached and unchurched, the least he can do is just 'keep his mouth shut', and he is merely doing a disservice to the Christianity. The Archbishop needs to do more about the situation and the rift within the Anglican Church, he cant even clean his own backyard, let alone the national issues. I reckon that it is time for him to bow out graciously, before disgrace falls upon him.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:00 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    rolln4him,

    You mention, “…but Muslims don't keep it a secret that they want to CONVERT anything that moves.”

    Umm… what’s wrong with that? We Christians want to do the same. Are we the only ones aloud to proselytize?

    You also mention, “…trust me they are not interested in making peace with you unless you're a Muslims.”

    Not true, there are a lot who do want peace. Have you tried going to a Mosque and just talk to people, and learn about them? I think you’ll be surprised at what you find.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:16 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    didymus

    I don't know if you read the news, but Muslims don't keep it a secret that they want to CONVERT anything that moves. That's all fine and dandy that you want to make peace with them, but trust me they are not interested in making peace with you unless you're a Muslims. They execute practicing gays, women must be fully clothed and submissive and no toleration of discussion of other religions are allowed. Actually, I do respect many Muslims because of their all out devotion - even to the point of death. Sadly, they're taking innocent victims and even children all in the name of Islam.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:46 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    There are plenty of muslim countries where Sharia law is practiced. If they're so mad keen to live by those laws then let them move there. It's about time we started being a bit more proud of our british heritage and weren't bending over backwards to appease these people.

    I don't consider the Archbishop to be a true and faithful servant of the Lord so I expect nothing less from him really.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:32 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 6

    I support Archbishop Rowan Williams; honestly he has a good idea. Probably should read his full statement: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/07_02_08_islam.pdf


    john14-6,

    You said, “… or else stop worrying about kow-towing to Muslims and start working on converting Muslims and presenting the truth of our faith to them.”

    Well, that’s all fine-n-dandy… but what if they don’t want to convert? Are you going to force them to convert? Are you going to shove scripture verses down their throats until they beg for mercy? Are you going to pass legislation that bars them from worshipping? Pass laws that bar them from reading their Korans, and requires them to read the Bible? Look… you’re going to have to live with them whether you like it or not. I to am all for bringing as many to Christ as possible, but even if they don’t convert, I’m going to make peace with them, live with them, and love them as Christ would.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:31 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

    It sounds like old man Williams got his ordination from some mail in degree entity or off the back of a cereal box. Walking the middle road gets nowhere; trying to please everyone gets you nowhere and all it does is bring confusion and disaster. True leadership has true convictions regarding their faith. Dr. Williams is a wolf in sheep's clothing and is a shame to the faith. Muslims are slowing infiltrating into western countries and they can hardly sit still in astonishment when those like Williams make such statements. Trust me, you will not hear a Muslim cleric say they need to drop Muslim country's belief to accommodate western democratic principle. Why? Because they know what they believe - unlike Williams. By the way, hand the guy a few bucks to go get a hair cut - he looks like he just came out of a cave. Maybe that's his problem.

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