The same conservative Christian activist who called a meeting last fall to discuss backing a third-party candidate to counter a possible Rudy Giuliani candidacy is revisiting the idea as Sen. John McCain closes in on the Republican presidential nomination.
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(Photo: AP Images / Toby Talbot)Republican presidential hopeful, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., speaks during a campaign visit in South Burlington, Vt., Thursday, Feb. 14, 2008.
Bob Fischer, a South Dakota businessman and anti-abortion activist, told The Associated Press on Wednesday that while he could back the Arizona senator over either Democratic Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton or Barack Obama, he made clear that he and others in the evangelical movement are not content with those choices.
"I'll be working in other ways to see that we have additional choices as conservatives," Fischer said.
He declined to elaborate, but held out hope that Mike Huckabee might mount an improbable comeback, or that another "good conservative, Godly, Christian pro-life" GOP candidate somehow emerge to supplant McCain. The Arizona lawmaker has opposed abortion during his four terms in the Senate.
Fischer also volunteered an alternative scenario: supporting the nominee of the fledgling Constitution Party.
Although some conservative Christian activists are warming to McCain, Huckabee's success with that voting bloc in recent primaries and caucuses shows that much work remains for McCain.
Several Christian conservative leaders dismiss renewed talk of a third-party strategy, but any significant loss of conservative Christian voters could spell trouble for McCain in a close general election.
"Some of these folks might be trying to send a signal to McCain," said Mark Rozell, a political scientist at George Mason University. "There are also some people in that movement who believe McCain is hopeless. And they're not bluffing."
McCain already faces danger if conservative Christians are not energized about his candidacy, and the prospect of a third-party candidate siphoning off even a half-percentage point of McCain support could be a difference-maker, Rozell said.
Last fall, Fischer called a meeting in Salt Lake City as Christian conservative leaders attended a separate gathering of the ultra-secretive Council for National Policy, an umbrella group for the movement.
Most attendees of Fischer's meeting, including Focus on the Family founder James Dobson, agreed to support a minor-party candidate if Giuliani emerged as the Republican nominee, according to Dobson and others in attendance. Another group suggested creating a new party, but no consensus emerged, Dobson wrote in an op-ed in The New York Times.
Several Christian conservative leaders, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Fischer has invited them to a follow-up meeting next month in New Orleans coinciding with another Council for National Policy meeting.
Fischer would not confirm nor deny a meeting, but said, "If I told you we were, I think the success of that meeting would be greatly compromised."
Mat Staver, who heads the conservative Christian legal group Liberty Counsel, said blunting McCain with a minor-party candidate has scant support because McCain is much closer to social conservatives on issues than Giuliani.
Former GOP presidential candidate and conservative Christian Gary Bauer, who endorsed McCain this week, also was dismissive: "I think the third-party idea has effectively gone the way of all bad ideas," Bauer said.
Fischer said that for large numbers of social conservatives to entertain backing McCain, he would need to reverse himself on several positions, including his support for relaxing restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research. Fischer said if McCain prevails short of doing that, he and many other conservatives "will not work as hard as we could" to elect him.
He then raised the possibility of Christian conservatives lining up behind the Constitution Party, citing its conservative moral stances and ability to get on state ballots, a steeper challenge for an entirely new party.
The Constitution Party, which calls itself "completely pro-life, pro-gun, pro-American sovereignty and independence," has secured spots on about 16 state ballots and hopes to exceed 40, national field director Gary Odom said. The party has nominated founder Howard Phillips as its presidential candidate in the past and will select its candidate in April.
Said Fischer: "The Republican Party needs to remember that (the Constitution Party) will nominate a conservative. If the Republican Party wants to avoid defeat in November, they need to do the same. There are no votes to waste in this election."
Copyright 2008 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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citsonga,
Whether we choose to acknowledge it, or not, God is on His throne, and He is in control. He has chosen to give you and me free choice. I pray that my God will make Himself very real to you and show you how much He loves you. I pray you will choose to seek Him, and He will give you faith to believe that His Son Jesus died so that you might live. He is our only hope.
brenda
brenda "Put Dr. Ambassador Alan Keyes and Judge Roy Moore on the ballot, and America might have a future, but not unless we repent. "
yeah right, future as a theocracy....aint going to happen. Preserve Freedom & Liberty for all -keep religion out of government, courts and schools. Leave it at your church
budger63,
I agreed with quite a bit of what you said, except for this: “The Church has been waisting time and $ on trying to legislate morality.” I am sure that William Wilberforce would disagree with you as one who spent his life in the House of Commons fighting for the abolition of slavery until his dying day. Today even a-moralists agree that slavery is wrong. Just look at the posts here and you will see numerous atheists condemning Christianity for supposedly being week on the issue. My point here is merely that people as a whole did not consider slavery as immoral, until after legislation.
An excellent post from budger68 indeed. We should be focused on sharing with our neighbors the message of Christ. It is very true that Jesus "didn't dictate rules from Jerusalem, he went to the streets and showed the love of God". We do need to move our focus from man's kingdom and begin to work for God's kingdom. No where in the Bible did Christ instruct us to take control of civil government. The corrupt institutions of secular government are far below any follower of Christ. Our time, energy and money could be far better spent.
Glad you asked:
www.wherethewallsarebroken.com
Would all you "beloved" wake up and realize that you may be the ones who put Obama or Hillary in the White house. If you want our society to change start with God's House and not the White House. The Church has been waisting time and $ on trying to legislate morality. If we were salt and light the abortion centers would close, prostitutes would be off the street, etc. . How many of you have taken the time to try and reach your neighborhoods with the message of Christ? Jesus didn't dictate rules from Jerusalem, he went to the streets and showed the love of God. Get your eyes on Man's kingdom and get to work for God's kingdom.
Hello Everyone,
This is Part 2. I wanted to give you all an update. I wanted to thank those who wrote the kind words of encouragement from the last post about this dream I had. Now you are in for a treat. I just discovered an audio clip from Obama's wife, Michelle, that confirms some of the aspects of my dream. You will want to listen to this from her own words about what her and Obama's vision of America is.
Audio Clip: The Wife of an Antichrist?
http://www.townhall.com/MediaPlayer/AudioPlayer.aspx?ContentGuid=9e3a08aa-ad84-46cf-8492-6aff289bca42
WHY I CHOOSE MIKE HUCKABEE FOR PRESIDENT!!!
http://evolutionfacts.blogtownhall.com/default.aspx?mode=post&g=cf6a5c23-8be1-4dd7-8e95-a30cf68d9d2a
Humbly, to the best of my ability, I apply Joshua 24:14-15 to voting: "Now therefore, fear the Lord, serve Him in sincerity and in truth, and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the River and in Egypt. Serve the Lord! And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for youselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which you fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
I do not believe John McCain can be trusted to honor the Presidential Oath: "... to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States." and do not believe he meets the biblical standards of a civil magistrate:
http://www.visionforumministries.org/issues/ballot_box/biblical_standards_for_choosin.aspx
So, I will not be pressing the "McCain" button this year, regardless of the giants that many seem to see in the land. (BTW: there is not going to be a button, lever, or hole to punch, in any voting booth, which reads "Vote Against Obama.")
We've been wandering in the political desert for way to long ...
Jeff, you are exactly right about getting the government we deserve. The blood of some 50 MILLION defenseless unborn Americans is crying out for justice, and even those of us who acknowledge our nation's bloodguilt are still too busy following "The American Dream" to worry about "unwanted fetuses".
America's conscience has been AWOL for 35 years, and we cannot expect to revive it with one vote.
The national crisis upon us has nothing to do with the economy, aside from our obsession with things money can buy.
We are experiencing an American heart attack, and even we who recognize the warning signs refuse to go to the Great Physician because He would tell us we must change our diet (eat meat instead of milk), exercise (put feet to our faith), or die.
Seedplanter, I agree with you about the wake-up call, but not just for this year's election or one candidate. We are in desperate need of true revival… Without a lifestyle of REPENTANCE, we are doomed.
BTW, McCain favors using your tax dollars for embryonic stem cell research, he personally sued Wisconsin Right to Life, his McCain-Feingold Act violated free speech rights, and he was one of seven Republicans against the Marriage Protection Amendment. (http://roegone.org/Site/Tv%20ADS%20.html)
I think we all three really want the same thing -- to live in a land we can ask God to bless. The question begging to be answered is, why are we sitting here?
OK Jeff & Brenda, when you can show me that at least 40% of the registered Democrats are willing to cross the line and vote for the Constitutional Party, then maybe we will have a chance and truly a miracle is before our eyes. The way I see it, right now Christians need to send a wake up call to America that unless they want a USSA, they should vote against Obama. He is a real genuine serious threat not only to our Christian liberties, but our very nation as a whole. McCain is not merely the lesser of two evils. He has a solid pro-life record.
Brenda,
Amen!
You've cut to the heart of the matter. Our pride and political pragmatism must be crushed. Let us so earnestly pray, as you have said. May we succumb to His will.
Statistics are nice and they can be used in cute ways, sometimes they can even be useful . But, no matter how smart we think we are being with our let's make sure "we" don't elect Hillary or Barack, lesser of two evils "strategery", there is one Ruler of the Universe and all that is in it. He will determine the outcomes "around here". Who do we think we are?
We must be faithful. Until, then we will continute to get the government we deserve.
"Let us raise a standard to which the wise and honest can repair; the rest is in the hands of God." -- George Washington
It will take nothing less than a bona fide miracle to put a God-fearing man in the White House with the ‘08 election. Though we do not deserve such divine intervention, we can still hope and pray that the Ruler of the Universe might have mercy on our morally impoverished nation and remind us all that He is the only one in control.
When and if the stubborn hearts and wills of the American people finally break over the sin that enslaves us, then we will earnestly pray for a president who will uphold the Lord’s truth and righteousness, regardless the effect on our economy, our choice, or our pride.
For years, Alan Keyes has stood out as a man after God’s own heart.
His perception of the issues facing our nation is dead-on.
His eloquent, astute delivery is unmatched.
His righteous anger is appropriate and refreshing.
Put Dr. Ambassador Alan Keyes and Judge Roy Moore on the ballot, and America might have a future, but not unless we repent.
ProfessorX : “…the document that we was signing… sought to stifle world wide evangelism by restricting ministries.”
This was already done by Israel independent from foreign pressure. Israel is one of the most secular nations in the world.
JeffRhine : “Roy Moore, Alan Keyes, and Bob Smith (forme NH U.S. Senator) are all now open to considering receiving the Constitution Party nomination”
Alan Keys doesn’t stand a chance against McCain and Obama. Alan Keys is the only politicians name that I have ever placed on my front yard, running against Obama. Keys did not even receive half of the conservative votes. I think it was something like 22%. I can’t see Roy Moore doing much better. Like it or not a lot of Christians are just flaky when it comes to voting. If you believe the findings of a Harris Poll of 2,455 U.S. adults conducted online by Harris Interactive® between November 7 and 13, 2007; 82 percent of adult Americans believe in God. Large majorities of the public believe in miracles (79%), heaven (75%), angels (74%), that Jesus is God or the son of God (72%), the resurrection of Jesus (70%), the survival of the soul after death (69%), hell (62%), the devil (62%), and the virgin birth (Jesus born of Mary) (60%).
The point here is that considering the fact that Hillary and Obama professes Christianity and both were even invited to speak at Saddleback reveals the divisions among believers. In other words, the Constitutional Party is never going to garnish enough votes away from both McCain and Obama to make a positive difference in the outcome of the general election.
In 2004, at the Biblical Foundations of American Law Conference and Banquet, Lancaster, PA, Alan Keyes made an interesting comment, to paraphrase: 2008 was the line in the sand for the Republican Party to get its Constitutional mind together. Roy Moore, Alan Keyes, and Bob Smith (forme NH U.S. Senator) are all now open to considering receiving the Constitution Party nomination -- there are others. (btw - how many of you know that Alan Keyes and Ron Paul have/are both running for President as Republicans this year.) 2008 is the year, friends.
We are responsible for the Hillary/Barack/John/Mike choice this year. (Yes, Mr. Huckabee fails miserably: http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/election2008/reps/MikeHuckabee.html, too.) For the lesser of two evil type of reasons, in recent history, we have had G. W. H. Bush, Bill Clinton, and G. W. Bush. They -- and I believe the records of Hillary/Barack/John/Mike -- fail the Constitution test, the Presidential Oath: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." We have been fearing the bogey-man instead of fearing God who has assured us that "if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land."
Let us put the bogey-man to death! May we all turn to scripture, pray, seek God's righteousness first, then make our choice to the best of our ability. Principle over Politics! As, I like to say your vote is the currency of your conviction.
(seedplanter, I once sat in a room of several dozen men that had become CP members. As we went around the room, telling from which party we came, half -- maybe over half -- said "from the Democrat Party".)
jeff.rhine@verizon.net
I will do a write in for Mike Huckabee out of conviction if he is not McCain’s running mate. In the dangerous times that we live in I believe Huckabee’s voice must be heard in the Whitehouse. I have done everything I could to change history but perhaps some things must take place. This day is February 16, 2008, about 7:47AM.
Mark my words. I expect that those who love death and love the lie rather than the truth will mock and jeer at what I am about to say. "The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good." (Psalms 14:1) Therefore, I give you permission to manifest yourselves.
I had a dreadful dream of the Future: "September 2004 before Bush was re-elected, I saw I large Press Conference. World leaders from many countries were standing behind an individual about to sign a document. The Lord would not allow me to see the person's face, but I knew this person was an antichrist, and the document that we was signing dealt harshly with Israel by dividing it and sought to stifle world wide evangelism by restricting ministries. I instantly realized this document "so-called" of peace and safety would bring about economic, environmental catastrophe and social disaster on all nations and will open the door to more Islamic extremism. I also saw a woman who appeared to be Condoleezza Rice standing on his right-hand side. I was so embarrassed by this dream because I (as a republican) never imagined Bush to be an antichrist figure. But I know what I saw. January 2008 I made a double take as I thought I saw Condoleezza Rice campaigning with Obama. I asked my wife if that was Obama with Condoleezza. She said, “No, this woman is HIS WIFE. I never saw her before with Obama. BEWARE AMERICA this vision is coming to pass.
I only discovered recently in December 2007 that there really is a Judgment unleashed on nations and individuals who divide the land of Israel. Many of the rebels against God will see that God's word and judgments are true but they will use their power and media influence to accuse Christians and Jews for the sorrows that are about to fall upon the earth. It will become realized that a genetic crisis exists on the earth, because of a nations fornication (sex-outside of marriage) many people will not be aware who they are related with and many will pass down weak genes from unintentional inbreeding. Half-brothers and half- sisters along with first cousins interbreeding will result in more autism and retardation within that sinful nation. But people will be too politically correct to talk about it until it’s too late. Arrogant nations permitting genetic experiment crossing animals with humans will be the first partakers of new diseases effecting both humans and animals, since they sought to reject and defy the order of God.”– H. M. H Jr.
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
"Barack Hussein Obama ...has direct ties to kenyan jihadists...obama's first cousin is Raila Odinga who ran for president of kenya with proven plans to institute sharia law in kenya...obama endorsed him..check and see what is happening there now..odinga's supporters are committing genocide against Christians right now because odinga lost and said the election was rigged."
I have also heard about this. It is a real problem indeed.
I would have to say that I do not believe that the Constitution Party would be accepted by Democrats and Independants. I doubt it would even be considered by 10% of Republicans. As much as Rush Limbaugh dislikes McCain, even he has said that it would practically be futile for a third party take over. You have to recognize that if Huckabee could not win the majority in the Republican Party, he would not stand any better as an Independant or third party candidate.
While McCain has his problems, a vote against him (in the main election), is a vote for Obama. If you want to take the chance of him getting elected and turning America into the USSA, then go ahead and do what your conscience leads you to do. Just don't be surprised when your conscience has even less freedom act.
Harald--
I'm with you, Go Huck!!!! We don't need to "take over" the Constitution Party, it is a true conservative party for Christians!!!!
GreatNW--
I would submit to you that even if living "under Rome" we are given the duty to vote and must exercise that right under the context of Scripture.
Let's all pray that Mike Huckabee wins 50.1% of the remaining contests...that is all Mike Huckabee needs to force a brokered convention... don't buy the media hype about mathematically impossible, it's just not true! If we can force a brokered convention Huckabee will surely win! 70%-75% of republicans are voting AGAINST John Mccain. Of course if it is rigged and Mccain wins the nomination despite 75% voting against him....then we should take over the constitution party. If we can just take all the Christians that are unwittingly in the democratic party and independents...we can win. There are 220 million Christians in the USA....120 million of which are true Christians that believe the rapture will happen in their lifetime! If we do form a third party it has to be very strong..it has to be able to attract conservatives,democrats and independents....we can't risk having Barack Hussein Obama winning the presidency, God forbid. Hussein Obama has direct ties to kenyan jihadists...obama's first cousin is Raila Odinga who ran for president of kenya with proven plans to institute sharia law in kenya...obama endorsed him..check and see what is happening there now..odinga's supporters are committing genocide against Christians right now because odinga lost and said the election was rigged. Learn the facts...get it out there.. we can stop him!
But are we living in Israel or under Rome? Scripture gives us both an OT model and NT model knowing that the church will often find itself as resident aliens living under a pagan power.
Everyone should take Jeff Rhines suggestion and look at vision forums: http://www.visionforumministries.org/issues/ballot_box/biblical_standards_for_choosin.aspx
It descusses the need for Christians to look to Scripture for their choice of a candidate and not "the lessor of two evils" or "A vote for X = a vote for Y." The fact of the matter is Christians have a duty to vote for the true conservative and leave the rest to the Lord. No Christian can justify voting for McCain as Scriptural!
When Obama says he wants change, he means that he wants to change the USA to USSA (United Socialist States of America). Is this the chance you want to take? McCain has received a “0” score from Planned Parenthood. He is not nearly as liberal as Obama. With Obama in charge you are guaranteed to have abortion on demand and we will all be forced to pay for it. Obama has already cost the government 200 million dollars in ear marks. He has already promised to raise taxes. He wants to redeploy our troops to invade Pakistan, which we are at somewhat reasonable relations with. He has “0” executive experience and very little congressional experience. He is sliding in as a rhetoritician not a politician. It is truly sad that the Democrat Party has been completely overcome be special interest groups that have an agenda that will destroy America from the inside out. Although McCain does not support a constitutional amendment to define marriage as between one man and one woman, he did however support the defense of marriage amendment. Obama is far more the social liberal, as The American Conservative Union score card reveals:
Obama 2006 – 8 / 2005 – 8 / Years – 2 / Life Time Voting Record – 8.0
Clinton 2006 – 8 / 2005 – 12 / Years – 6 / Life Time Voting Record – 9.0
McCain 2006 – 65 / 2005 – 80 / Years – 20 / Life Time Voting Record – 82.3
The purpose of the "Rating" is to inform the public, in as unbiased a method as possible, exactly where individual Senators and Members of the House stand on the ideological spectrum from liberal to conservative.
http://conservative.org/archive2/ratingssummary06.asp
http://www.familytaxpayers.net/article.asp?id=1587
""Today, candor compels us to admit that our vaunted two-party system is a snare and a delusion, a fraud upon the nation. Our two parties have
become nothing but two wings of the same bird of prey"
~ Patrick J. Buchanan
http://www.visionforumministries.org/issues/ballot_box/biblical_standards_for_choosin.aspx
I like the idea if a third party, but I would not start with the office of the president. Too many negatives as Brother John has outlined. Might be time for a third party but first look to gain seats in the House and Senate first. We would be in a much stronger position.
Look, fellow conservatives, the choice will be McCain, Obama. If w decide to back another candidate [ I am including myself here ] we stand the certainty pf electing Obama. However, if, a well-known, strong conservative candidate [ such as Newt Ginrich ] were to run, and have the finances to run a good hard campaign in all 50 States. We have a chance to pull it off. A weak conservative candidate only elects Obama. I refer you to the election of 1912 when Teddy
Roosevelt ran on the Bull Moose Ticket while Taft ran on the Republican Ticket. Thus Woodrow Wilson became President. The first liberal democratic President in the 20th Century.
Now, the choice is between a candidate who is above media criticism because he is a media darling and the choice of the liberal faction of the country. No one knows where he stands except for change. What does that mean? and what will it cost those who differ with him?
This is the most important election of our time and the future of this nation is at stake. I do not feel very good about what is going to happen this year! God help us!
BrotherJohn
Christians have been left out of this election..I think a 3rd party might be a good idea, I think their is enough dissatisfaction that maybe it could win...We are given few real choices, but made to think we have a choice...
I understand that McCain is more conservative,than Obama. And no vote for him adds up to Obama's win. But my question is when will true conservatives have a party ? The Repiblican party with Bush and now McCain clearly arent conservative. Will another liberal Republican win get the Republican party to think more conservatively? I just dont think so. So vote for McCain who cares about the unborn, but not free speech or marriage or vote forObama the democrat.
I think we need to accept reality: John McCain is our only chance for a Republican in the White House. As much as we all wanted Huck to have 1,100 delegates by now, he doesn't have them, nor will he ever have them. It's McCain or a Democrat. That's our choice.
We can see how division is hurting the Democratic party, so why are we turning that weapon on ourselves? Third parties, write-in votes for what we want reality to be (when it's not) are all helping the Democratic party. Huck needs to support McCain, work to unite the party and focus on generating more votes for McCain than Obama.
Any vote that doesn't go to McCain indirectly goes to Obama. Christians, let's focus on the big picture here.