How to Share Your Faith Using Tom Cruise's Scientology Rant

SilentBefore »

Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:09 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Citsonga,

I've seen your kind of "drive by atheist" before, I'm not sure if you're a high-schooler who's just read the latest Dawkins book, or if you're a Scientologist that's trying to divert attention away from the main thrust of the argument. Your tactics and phrasing is fairly consistent with both, but it doesn't really matter does it? The article and the discussion that followed were a comparison of Scientology to Christianity, and a question of whether or not they're compatible. That is all.

If you actually wanted a genuine discussion this isn't where you'd go to find it, you'd find a serious apologetics website, or go to one of the many, many boards where you find people with every possible philosophical point of view. Instead you came here and decided it be fun (lulzy) to yell "Religion is irrational and man made" and try to see if you could get a rise out of the netizens here.

You're not even *trying* man! Tell me do you have any training, education, studies, or what not other than surfing Sceptics Bible and the Dawkins forums? Have you even done that? Wittgenstein? Flew? Pascal? C.S. Lewis? Kreeft? Ring any bells?

That said I suppose I *could* say that if you make a positive claim (and yes saying that all religion are man-made *is* a positive claim) that goes against accepted knowledge then *you* are the one that have to back it up. I suppose I could say that your points were little more than going "You're all the same, and I won't be bothered even considering anything else." I suppose I could say that one paragraph or two line posts that contain no arguments, no new point of view, and contain deliberate provocations, is generally the mark of a troll rather than a debater.

However I don't want to say that since you're posts are off topic. The topic at hand is a comparison of Christianity and Scientology, most specifically to see if they're compatible or not. It's not a comparison of philosophical materialism with various brands of religious philosophy.

Flagging and deleting inappropriate or off-topic posts is common in all web-communities, don't flatter yourself to think that you're being flagged because of your Iconoclastic Truths. You're being off-topic, and you're getting what most boards do to off-topic drive-by trolls.

Once more if you want a serious debate go find a place where such debates are on topic and appropriate. If not, well I hate to classify people, but here:

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/atheist.htm

I apologise for the length of this post, but I had to make my points quickly, and I'll probably be unable to post again for quite some time. Good luck, God bless, and have a good day.

citsonga »

Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:21 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

I got flagged twice. I must be making good points. Some folks here cant handle opposing view points I suppose. Keep those blinders on and ignore reality- if that makes you happy- great, but to whom ever is doing the flagging, stop being the information police for everyone else. If you dont like what I post, ignore it or defend your point of view and point out where you disagree with me. Stop being an ignorant coward.

hallelujah »

Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:42 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Romans 1:19-22
19 Because the knowledge of God may be seen in them, God having made it clear to them. 20 For from the first making of the world, those things of God which the eye is unable to see, that is, his eternal power and existence, are fully made clear, he having given the knowledge of them through the things which he has made, so that men have no reason for wrongdoing: 21 Because, having the knowledge of God, they did not give glory to God as God, and did not give praise, but their minds were full of foolish things, and their hearts, being without sense, were made dark. 22 Seeming to be wise, they were in fact foolish. (If we don't want to be found out as actually being foolish, we best get a hold of God, before it is too late. We still need to live what we know the truth to be no matter what others may choose to believe.)

anniefourjesus »

Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:32 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

Man is GOD BREATHED!!! We breath HOLY BREATH but we can choose to reject this and sadly many are.

My prayer is that people will wake up and see they are living on a DEAD planet and the only way off is JESUS CHRIST! This world is reserved for fire and then Jesus will bring a new heaven and a new earth! Blessed be the Name of the LORD!

anniefourjesus »

Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:31 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

L. Ron Hubbard was a SCIENCE FICTION WRITER!!!! and not a very good one! Nothing personal but people need to see this is FICTION!!!

JESUS CHRIST is real and HE is alive! L. Ron Hubbard has died and no one knows where he is!
But JESUS CHRIST is returning!
As God's Word says about the End Times: people draw up for themselves preachers who preach what they want to hear; even myths will be told as truth; please be correctly discerning the times and know that we are created in the IMAGE of Almighty GOD and people are exchanging the Worship of the Creator, to worship the creation; which is also Prophetic.

This should encourage all true followers of Jesus Christ; as we see The DAY approaching; we give THANKS!!!!! The KING is coming!!! Hallelujah!!!

Strudelcookies »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:45 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Hallelujah, hallelujah!

Sorry, just couldn't resist that one. :) I do agree that the best way to share one's faith is by living a good, productive & virtuous life, saying when I read the Bible, this is how I feel, and letting our actions be our words. Soooo a person can try to use Hannah Montana to use their faith, but in the end it's just a dumb TV show and not really what a person should base their principles off of. :)

hallelujah »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:19 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

The Bible doesn't agree with scientology. True christians need to have a deep relationship with the Lord, Jesus, and know His Word like the back of their hand. We just need to live our lives the way His Word tells us to do. That is the best way to witness and win souls!

saerat »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

http://www.contenderministries.org/scientology.php has a VERY good article on it

AnonymousABQ »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:37 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

We Are Anonymous, not "Hackers" as many newsgroups would have you think - very few of us are code savvy

Now we come full circle. As the Church attempted to have the Tom Cruise video removed, another video, titled simply “Message to Scientology”, was distributed online. This video, a declaration of war against the Church, coincided with Distributed Denial of Service (DDOS) attacks which succeeded in disabling a number of key Scientology websites. This – later described as an opening salvo to grab the attention of the public and the media – quickly evolved into a movement pushing for global demonstrations against the Church on the 10th of February 2008. Demonstrators wore masks resembling those from the film and comic V for Vendetta, to protect their identities from later reprisals from the Church's Office of Special Affairs, as a symbolic statement against tyranny, and to reinforce the concept of Anonymous: that it is everywhere and nowhere, everyone and no-one.

Described by the church as Nazi-Communist hate criminals in the pay of the German government (which has refused to grant the Church tax-exempt religious status) and the psychiatric establishment, and by the media as “hackers on steroids”, Anonymous is chaotic, disorganised, organic, viral, confusing, amusing and growing. It is in this structureless, leaderless, anarchic environment that many find strength when put against an organisation which is based on, and can only understand, the most rigid forms of authority.

preparations are already underway for the 15th of March, the next round of global demonstrations, timed to take place close to the birthday of L Ron Hubbard. Critics have come forward to voice their support, ex-members have been given the courage to speak out, and people worldwide are becoming aware that the kooky sect with some strange ideas is the home of a rotten and destructive core. Only time will tell what effect this will have in the long term, and whether the Church can adapt to face its new challenge, but one thing is clear: the Church is under threat.

Many Christian/Muslim and other online religious groups have stated support for Anonymous in our plight.

We are Anonymous.
Expect us.

SilentBefore »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:01 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

I agree entirely, it is silly to judge a religion based on the rantings of an actor. That's why I've included links to Scientology websites, quoted L. Ron Hubbard himself (and given links to audiofiles) and so forth to explain my point of view. If you're interested just scroll a little further down in the comments section.

saerat »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:38 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Strudelcookies - I agree.. do not base it at all on the actors, base it on the whole structure of the unloving and corrupt cult that it is. Do not call it a religion please, as doing so insults me and all religious people. At best it is a business.

Strudelcookies »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:04 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

Hmm...I don't know much about Scientology, but it does seem a bit odd to judge a religion based off of some crazy actor's rants. Just my thoughts.

saerat »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:31 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

Excuse me, I have looked deeply into Scientology from both sides before you accuse me of only looking at haters websites. The fact is that the Church of Scientology runs like a cult where you need to pay more and more money to get up the ladder. By the very fact that the church forces it followers to dissconnect from their families who are not members and they feel the need to hide behind such things as "free personality tests" in which every single person is told they need to join to be able to live a happy life means that it is something that should be questioned at all levels. The Bible is very open and will be given to anyone that asks for it, to find out about the high levels of the Co$ you need to get there, and to get there you need money. = Buisness/Cult

SilentBefore »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:06 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 2

Not quite, the very essence of the beliefs is that you are an immortal spirit being that's being held back by a collection of bad events that have occurred in this life or in previous lives. Once you've been cleared or cured of all these beliefs you will regain the various abilities and powers a Thetan should have, never get sick, have a perfect memory and so forth. This needless to say is incompatible with Christianity.

Then you ask me not to believe in everything I read? If I can't trust L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology's own websites to give me accurate information about Scientology, then who can I trust? Are you saying www.scientology.org and L. Ron Hubbard are wrong about Scientology?

However if I were to take you seriously, if the essence to your belief is that we're immortal spirit beings who are troubled by bad deeds, well why do I need Scientology? I already know about souls, and this carpenter from Judea who seems to have a good bead on how to get rid of your sins.

So either you're incompatible with Christianity (according to what I've read on www.scientology.org and heard from L. Ron Hubbard own lips) or I don't need Scientology (according to you). Which is it?

stewart »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:04 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

I'm sorry, SilentBefore, that you think I'm trying to trick you or "muddy the waters".
To be honest, my knowledge of the Bible is fairly poor, and I've only ever read translated versions, so I cannot say in absolute what was in the original version. All I said was that "some scholars think".
Conversely however, you seem to consider yourself an expert on Scientology, despite your sources being extremely dubious.
At least my views of Christianity are not based on www.christianity-hatred.org and www.lies-about-christianity.net.
Not everything you read on the net, or in newspapers and books, is true.

stewart »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:48 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

"essence of the beliefs" - that's funny!
The essence of the beliefs is that you are an immortal spiritual being. And that's it.
You don't have to believe everything you read, you know!

SilentBefore »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:47 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

Near death experiences are not part of the dogma of any Christian church that I know of, so I fail to see how they're in any way relevant. As for the early Christian Church ut did not believe in past lives. Some early theologians, like Origen, hypothesized that there was a pre-existance of souls, and there are Jewish schools of thought that believe in a Chamber of Guf that holds all the souls that are yet to be born. Some claim that Jeremiah 1:5 refers to this Chamber of Guf. This isn't a belief in past lives though, pre-existence only means that you were held in storage, until it was time for you to be born, and when you've lived your life, your one and only life.

These believes were at any rate rejected by Christianity, along with many other heresies such as non-trinitarianism, but even if you accept them they still don't support your case.

What you're doing is basically trying to muddy the waters here, by throwing up such a barrage of facts that I'll give up, or be unable to answer. No such luck I'm afraid!

Now for your second claim, as we've already proven Scientology is incompatible with Christianity, but at the lower levels of Scientology many Christians may be unaware of this. They may still attend Church, and say their prayers, it's not until they reach the higher levels that they're told to make a choice.

However I'll give you a parable: imagine a Christian with an idol Astarte in his rooms, and burns incense before it. He would still be able to attend Christian church, because there's no Church Police snooping around in his private life. He might even think that his behaviour is compatible with Christianity, especially if all the other Astarte worshippers told him it was, but if he spoke to a theologian he'd get an entirely different answer.

Sure you can trick a Christian into thinking that Scientology and Christianity are compatible, but that doesn't make it so.

saerat »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:25 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 1

Please do not be pulled in by the devil. he prowls like a lion. The beliefs of Scientology are NOT compatible with Christianity and the main 'Church' of Scientology can be described as a business at best and a cult at worst. At the lower levels it acts more of a self help organisation which is indeed compatible but once you get to the very essence of the beliefs and the way that the so called church actually works, it can never go hand in hand with Christian teaching. Indeed LRH made references to Jesus being a paedophile and a liar. I urge my brothers and sisters to at least look into detail about this CULT before considering joining its lower ranks. For those at the top of the scam it might already be too late as all positions and the lives of those are completely owned by the Co$ =/

stewart »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:17 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

Also, perhaps SilentBefore ought to take a look at these links, as some scholars think that the early Christian Bible did indeed contain references to past lives ...

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen03.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0963496492/ref=nosim/neardeathexpe-20

stewart »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:03 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 5

I've been a Scientologist for 10 years now. I know several people who are studying courses in Scientology and who also attend a Christian church of some kind on Sundays. I also know Hindus, Buddhists and Muslims who have studied Scientology. In London, we've also had a lot of success through groups such as Foundation for Religious Tolerance and also Religions Working Together. These groups promote inter-faith charitable activities.
I've also attended a sermon given by a Baptist minister, hosted at a Church of Scientology.
At the end of the day, the only way to find out if to look with your own eyeballs. Just because someone claims something, doesn't make it true.
Whilst I don't doubt the integrity of true Christians, I think there exists liars who also claim to be Christian.

SilentBefore »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:00 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

First let me repeat an important statement: If Christianity is not compatible with Scientology, then any Christian that gets involved in Scientology is endangering his immortal soul. Scientology claims to be compatible with Christianity, but is it?

thorstenovergaard you say that I should read Scientology books and websites to solve the problem, very well I'll do just that then. I will use the official website of Scientology to make my arguments for me.

"In Scientology, you are given the tools to handle upsets and aberrations from past lives that adversely affect you in present time, thus freeing you to live a much happier life."

http://www.scientology.org/religion/catechism/pg011.html

We also have L. Ron Hubbard to fill us in further:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajdh2Yda568

Reincarnation is reincarnation is reincarnation, whether you call it Past Lives, the Whole Track or a Potzrebie. And whatever you call it such teachings are fundamentally incompatible with Christianity. Given these genuine Scientology sources it's fairly clear that Scientology does believe in reincarnation.

Then there are Hubbards views on Ethics and Morality, you can hear them if you listen to the Youtube video. You can also read the code itself here:

http://www.scientologie.tm.fr/wis/wiseng/33/33-hon.htm

Several of the points on that Code of Honour goes against the Christian virtues of humility and repentance. He is also against anyone making or enforcing a moral code, because people can't live up to it. Now the whole point to Christianity is that people cannot live up to the moral code God sets down, that's why we need salvation! So that's another reason why Scientology is not compatible with Christianity.

A third reason is the idea of Operating Thetan. In Scientology parlance you're a Thetan, a spirit/energy being who just happens to be attached to a body. In Christian terms this would be your Soul. If you reach the levels of Operating Thetan you are supposedly able to control or affect Matter, Energy, Space, and Time using only your inherent Thetan powers.

http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part03/Chp13/pg0247.html
http://www.scientology.org/religion/catechism/pg041.html

Needless to say this is also entirely incompatible with Christianity, it hints of path of salvation separate from that offered by Christ; once you're an OT why would you need salvation? The promised powers are also perilously close to magic, especially since you need multiple initiations to receive them.

Of course you're free to practise magic, or to have your own religion. However I think it's deceitful to claim that this is somehow compatible with Christianity, when we can clearly see that it isn't!

thorstenovergaard »

Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:53 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

@ SilentBefore & ChristianAnon: Really, you got the wrong sources. I can't discuss every piece of information "about Scientology" you dig up on the internet.

I'm sure you can see this; if we were to discuss Christianity or details of it and I found all kind of stuff, evidence and quotes from all sorts of people, people AGAINST christianity have posted online and unauthorized, seemingly quoted, etc. for you to comment. Would you play that game?

Any person is entitled to his own religion and his own viewpoints. You should be the first ones to recognize that the sources you refer to are ant-religion and anti-Scientology.

If you want to discuss Scientology principles, refer to books by L. Ron Hubbard which is the actual Scientology. One can also learn about Scientology be reading "What is Scientology?" which is a book not written by L Ron Hubbard, but a book published by the Church of Scientology to explain and answer questions about membership, what courses consist of, who's scientologist, etc. It's a non-religious text book and is also online for free reading:
http://www.whatisscientology.org

As for reincarnation, that is not the term used in Scientology. This is in fact covered in the 7th Dynamic of the eight dynamics I referred to at http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/SH2_2.HTM yesterday.

It reads "The seventh dynamic is the urge toward existence as or of spirits. Anything spiritual, with or without identity, would come under the heading of the seventh dynamic. This is separate from the physical universe and is the source of life itself. Thus there is an effort for the survival of life source."

What is stated in Scientology is that you're a spiritual being who will continue to exist after the death of the body. Nut if you reincarnate as a human, go to heaven or become a butterfly is really an open question. Only Scientology says you do not stop existing when your body dies and in that idea I think it is compatible with most religions.

Hope this clarifies.

ChristianAnon »

Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:41 am Agree: 13   Disagree: 2

In regards to the "Being a Christian and a Scientologist" debate, also consider L.Ron Hubbard said about Jesus. I am only linking to this because be warned, it says some VERY derogatory things about Him and those with very sensitive temperaments may not want to see it:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/index2.html

Please remember this the next time a Scientologist tells you their "religion" is compatible with Christianity. It absolutely is not.

SilentBefore »

Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:51 am Agree: 14   Disagree: 2

It is completly impossible to be a Scientologist and a Christian at the same time.

Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, - Hebrews 9:27

The teaching of reincarnation clashes fundamentally with Christianity, which teaches that humans get ONE life, and after that comes judgement.

Furthermore there's this quote:

"Anyway, Everyman is then shown to have been crucified so don't think that it's an accident that this crucifixion, they found out that this applied. Somebody somewhere on this planet, back about 600 BC, found some pieces of R6, and I don't know how they found it, either by watching madmen or something, but since that time they have used it and it became what is known as Christianity. The man on the Cross. There was no Christ. But the man on the cross is shown as Everyman. So of course each person seeing a crucified man, has an immediate feeling of sympathy for this man. Therefore you get many PCs who says they are Christ. Now, there's two reasons for that, one is the Roman Empire was prone to crucify people, so a person can have been crucified, but in R6 he is shown as crucified." Ron Hubbard, The Class VIII [Auditor's] Course, "Krakatoa and Beyond", Oct 3, 1968, aboard the Apollo.

Here's a recording of Hubbard himself:

http://www.xenu.net/archive/multimedia.html#nochrist

So you can hear that quote above straight from the horse's mouth! There are lots of other excellent sound bites on that page, so you can hear what Hubbard himself had to say.

thorstenovergaard »

Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:58 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 25

It's an interesting take on the Tom Cruise video which is from a 150 minutes long event in October 2004 where the Tom Cruise part was about 30 minutes. The clips on the internet was cut to make it uncomprehegsive to anyone, making the exact point that you got out of it.

The original, however, made good sense and one can go to any Chuch of Scientology and see that (and has been able to do so since 2004). It's not a secret video, but the video on the net is not the one.

However, having been a scientologist for 20 years, let me just take up one point of misinformation in the above. <b>Scientology does not teach multiple gods</b>:

There is no "one god" in Scientology, nor is there "multiple gods."

L. Ron Hubbard describes the god term in "The Eight Dynamics" and the dynamic no 8 is described as: "The eighth dynamic is the urge toward existence as infinity. This is also identified as the Supreme Being. This can be called the infinity or God dynamic."

If one is interested in reading about all 8 dynamics, one can read about them here:
http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/SH2_2.HTM

I think the conclusion one can draw from this is that Scientology does not deny the existence of God, nor does Scientology teach you to believe in any or one special God. but it does teach you that some form of existence, known as God in a range of religions, is a fact. This also explains, in case anyone has been wondering, why Buddhists, Christians and other religious people has been able to use Scientology to improve conditions in life, without compromising their core belief.

I do not write this to offend or make you wrong. I'm just pointing out that the "multiple gods" is a misinformation.

SilentBefore »

Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:43 am Agree: 12   Disagree: 2

For many members of Anonymous (it's a Big Tent organisation) the Theology of Scientology isn't the main objection. If you're religious then Scientology probably contradicts your religion, but as I said for many that's not the main concern.

One big concern is how the "Church" of Scientology (CoS) has "fixed, mandatory donation", and how you're required to pay for books and services. I don't mean $50 for reserved seats, or a subscription to your Church magazine. They charge in the several thousands of dollars, and that's just wrong. If someone comes to your Church, and asks to learn the teaching of Christ do you tell him the Good News, or do you present him with a bill?

Google: Scientology cost

Or go here: http://www.sweenytod.com/cos/pricelist.html

That should start to clue you in that there's something wrong, something seriously wrong. Then there's the bizarre theology, there's the deceitful claim that they're compatible with all religions, there's the money, there's so many things wrong.

I've written two other posts in short succession, and I won't write again except to answer any questions that are raised. I don't mean to spam your list, but too many people think that the CoS is just a joke.

In my previous comments I've made suggestions that you google certain terms, and I hope you do. The truth is amply documented, there are any number of studies by reputable groups (such as the Greek and German government), and the information is easy to find if you go looking. So please take ten minutes to google some of this, check out the websites, and make up your own minds.

SilentBefore »

Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:56 am Agree: 8   Disagree: 2

Let us look at 1 Corinthians 7:12-15, and ask what do you do if a loved one should be lured away from Christ? We're called to pray for them, and to try to gently guide them back to the faith. Certainly the bonds of the family should never be broken!

The Church of Scientology (CoS) claims that they bring families together, yet they have a policy they call a "Disconnect". If your loved ones stand between you and further "enlightenment" you're required to cut of all ties, and have nothing more to do with them. The CoS claims that a disconnect is a last resort. Let me ask you this, what kind of religion would have it as any kind of resort?

Consider this too: If a loved one becomes a Scientologist, and you try to bring them back to Christ, the CoS will order them to break of all contact with you!

David Miscavige, the leader of the CoS, won't talk to his own niece Jenna Miscavige (currently called Jenna Hall) after she left the CoS. When she grew up she only saw her parents once a year, if she was lucky. She was only 16 when they left the CoS, but she decided to stay, rather than leave with some people that she never really got to know.

Google: disconnect scientology

Here's another affront to the dignity of the family. The CoS has an elite paramilitary branch called the Sea Org, the members sign a billion year contract; remember the CoS believes in reincarnation! In return for working 14-16 hours a day they receive $50 a week, and discounts on CoS courses.

Like many things about the CoS this is a mixture of the horrific and the ridiculous, we shouldn't laugh though. The members of the Sea Org are not permitted to have children. If a female member becomes pregnant she'll be ordered to have an abortion, and they have various means to pressure her to agreeing.

If you have friends or acquaintances to who say they are pro-choice, ask them what they think about *forced* abortions.

This link has several testimonies from former members:

http://www.xenu-directory.net/practices/seaorgabortion1.html

The CoS goes against everything that Christians hold dear, from the sanctity of the family, to telling the truth, to the love of Christ.

Love of Christ and love of our fellow man requires us to speak out. I advice you all to read Matthew 35, the peopled trapped in the CoS, and the victims that have left, and the critics persecuted; aren't they "one of the least of these my brethren"?

SilentBefore »

Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:45 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 2

I am reminded of Matthew 35:34-40, let me quote the final part:

"And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

We are called upon to help those harmed by the Church of Scientology (CoS) and those still trapped inside it. I have let my fears keep me silent for far too long. The reason that I was afraid was that the CoS persecutes its critics, if you want examples you can google Paulette Cooper, Operation Freak Out, and Operation Snow White. If you're not troubled by a weak stomach google "The Unfunny Truth". That will explain why I was afraid.

I pray that God forgives me, but it's easy to look the other way if you, yourself, could get in trouble.

Anonymous has come, and it's safe to speak up, and Christians should speak up. However I hope you will criticize the evil deeds and deceitfulness of Scientology. Indeed the deceitfulness should really worry any Christian.

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." - Matthew 7:15

Can you be a member of the CoS and a Christian at the same time? That is an important question; if the answer is no then any Christian that joins the CoS is lured away from Christ!

Consider a Christian that has joined the CoS, he is devout, prays every day, and studies the bible. As he reaches the higher levels he'll be told that his devotion to Christ is holding him back. He'll also be given statements such as: "The man on the Cross. There was no Christ. But the man on the cross is shown as Everyman," and "Somebody somewhere on this planet, back about 600 BC, found some pieces of R6, and I don't know how they found it, either by watching madmen or something. But since that time they have used it and it became what is known as Christianity."

I think this makes it clear that the CoS and Christianity are not compatible, and that it's deceitful to claim that they are. Such deceit alone should be reason to speak out against the CoS.

This link may help:
http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/Theology/christian.htm

Or google: Christianity scientology

Anonymous »

Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:19 pm Agree: 13   Disagree: 4

That's the thing though. We were not protesting beliefs at all. We were protesting the actions of the BUSINESS part of the Church. It wasn't about faith, but they turned it into a matter of faith when they accused us of protesting their beliefs and called us "bigots".
Believe me, there many documented cases of their misdeeds. You should look up "operation snow white," where they infiltrated the IRS, and somehow ended up with tax breaks that not even Christians or Jewish get! Or "operation freakout" where they harassed a critic named Paulette Cooper and tried to have her jailed for crimes she did not commit.
I don't think prayer alone is going to change the abusive way they conduct their business. But we do ask that you pray for us to be strong in standing up for what we believe is right.

anniefourjesus »

Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:02 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

How about praying for those locked into Scientology that Jesus will free them from this! What will boycotting them help?
God gives every person the choice to follow Him or not, it is a personal decision.
I think we can expose the false doctrines and beliefs but we need to let God be God in their lives.

Who are we to judge anyone, come Christians can be bigots too, we are called to "love our enemies" if people perceive us as their enemies, well they did that with Christ too!

He warned us that we would face persecution, so why should believers be shocked when it comes! Jesus cried out from the cross as He was dying, "Father, Forgive them for they know not what they do!" Let that be our prayer too! For HIS Glory not ours!

Anonymous »

Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:35 pm Agree: 19   Disagree: 6

That was a very nice article Jane. I think it is nice to encourage peaceful discussions about spirituality even if views on the matter differ.
The Church of Scientology does not seem to be open to being questioned though.
We recently protested the organization for some of their misdeeds (many of them well documented), and even though we made it clear to them that we were not protesting their beliefs, they proceeded to call us "bigots" and "hateful terrorists."
We tell them how Christians would not call us "bigots" if we were to protest if a priest had done something bad. I come from a devout Christian family and they were shocked that a "Church" would resort to such name calling just because we disagree with them!
It is still happening (it's all over the internet if you google scientology news), but we will protest them again on March 15th and it will be just as peaceful as the first protest.