Obama Uses Jesus' Sermon to Bolster Gay Civil Unions

Faith in God »

Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

To any homosexuals:

God loves you, but all sin separates you from God. That is why we all need a Savior. Jeus is that

Savior because He is God and became man so he could offer His sinless life as a sacrifice to God for

our sins. This means all our sins can be forgiven by the Blood of Jesus.

If you haven't yet, call on Jesus today and ask Him to forgive your sins. He will. Ask God for the Holy

Spirit, you will be new!

Faith in God »

Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

*** People of faith are voting McCain - Palin ***

Evil exists with Obama's track record. Some facts on Obama's voting and speaking against the teaching

of Christ:

- Obama votes to kill babies born alive. These are people Jesus loves.

- Obama calls traditional marriage, which Jesus ordained, "divisive".

- Biden's church has told Biden not to take communion. This is serious.

Vote for McCain - Palin who care for marriage and all youth - instead of voting because someone is black or speaks well.

shadow_man »

Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:43 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 3

Homosexuality is not a sin according to the Bible. Any educated Christian would know that. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages often cherry picked refer to idolatry, prostitution, and rape, not homosexuality.

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Heights/2554/kallos/bchtext2.html
http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=10620&pid=805
http://www.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html
http://www.christchapel.com/romans_inter.html
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/about/homosexuality.html
http://www.gaychristian101.com/

Thats why Jesus never mentions it as well. There is nothing immoral, wrong, or sinful about being gay. $100 say this will be erased, but by doing that, you are only denying yourself the truth. Jesus clearly states he HATES hypocrites. If you preach goodness, then promote hate and twist the words of the Bible, you are a hypocrite, and will be judged and sent to hell. Homosexuals will not go to hell, hypocrites will.

QT »

Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:17 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

<<<Evil comes disguised as light.>>>

That can go for a lot of things, some Organized Religions comes to mind. It's all perception based on assumptions.

<<Obama endorses partial birth abortion, gay marriage and other unbiblical things.>>

Where does it say anything negative in the Bible about partial birth abortion, and gay marriage? Oh, nowhere. Therfore it is not unBiblical. It is RELIGIOUS TRADITION and the creed of SOME Christian followers that makes that claim.

<<He is evil and both he and his wife hate this country.>>

More perspectives based in propaganda without evidentiary supported with FACT.

<<He bends Scripture as Satan did in the garden with Eve to trick and decieve.>>

The scriptures were not written when Adam and Eve were in the garden. Adam and Eve were illiterate and had no idea in the garden that there would one day be a Bible, therefore Satan could not have possibly bent scripture it hadn't been written yet.

QT »

Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

<<<Where did they learn that from? Nowhere. It's a inborn trait. They steal because they see something they want. They may not know that either of those is a sin (or immoral if you choose that word). It's up to someone to point out that it is wrong. >>>

I would have to say they learned it from their parents, adults or siblings, thus making the point I have been stating ALL along, they learn lying, stealing and violent behavior from their parents, adults or siblings. It doesn't prove YOUR point when I state that children practice lying, or have the capacity to lie, they lie when they have developed speech, right? So it's pretty obvious that when they can speak, they have witnessed enough instances of parent or adult behavior to poorly or accurately model what they learn. YES, lying is a commonplace behaviour, and children are subject to lies all the time. The problem is that children learn to lie through experiencing others lie. It's a problem because they model what they see in adults.

QT »

Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:46 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

<<<But keep talking about the children lying speech. You are continuing to prove my point. Children are born with the ability to lie, steal, etc. They lie because they don't want to get caught.>>>

How does it prove your point to say that by the time children speak they have learned to lie. By the time they speak, they have had enough modeled behavior experience from their parents and the adults around them which proves my point. If someone learns something, that means it is not innate- thus making it reasoned behavior.

aritonang »

Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:52 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Matthew 5:6

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied

jar1961 »

Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:25 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 5

Evil comes disguised as light. Obama endorses partial birth abortion, gay marriage and other unbiblical things. He is evil and both he and his wife hate this country. He bends Scripture as Satan did in the garden with Eve to trick and decieve.

Prophet »

Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:30 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Yes, but there are many psycholigist that would say that humans are born with the desire to do wrong, such as lie, steal, hit, etc, etc...

Prophet »

Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:28 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

But keep talking about the children lying speech. You are continuing to prove my point. Children are born with the ability to lie, steal, etc. They lie because they don't want to get caught. Where did they learn that from? Nowhere. It's a inborn trait. They steal because they see something they want. They may not know that either of those is a sin (or immoral if you choose that word). It's up to someone to point out that it is wrong.

QT »

Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:26 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

you said,
<<<I could find just as many psychologists who agree with me as you can find who agree with you.
We are all born into sin.>>>

Only a religious or theological psychologist would say something as ridiculous as "WE ARE ALL BORN INTO SIN."

QT »

Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:24 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

From everything I am finding, it looks conclusive that LYING is a learned behavior- one that is reinforced bt how the parent deals with the situation. We learn to behave or not- sorry, but saying the Bible says so, is not working for me as FACT, nor is your anecdotal experience. You can believe in the Bbile and blame "sin" as the reason children behave the way they do, but YOUR theories don't jive with science, psychology or child development experts.

Prophet »

Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

QT,
I didnt say anything about psychologists who believe in God, did I?

QT »

Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

Young children learn from experience that stating an untruth can avoid punishment for misdeeds, before they develop the theory of mind necessary to understand why it works. In this stage of development, children will sometimes tell fantastic and unbelievable lies because they lack the conceptual framework to judge whether a statement is believable or even to understand the concept of believability.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

QT »

Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:19 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

Young children learn from experience that stating an untruth can avoid punishment for misdeeds, before they develop the theory of mind necessary to understand why it works. In this stage of development, children will sometimes tell fantastic and unbelievable lies because they lack the conceptual framework to judge whether a statement is believable or even to understand the concept of believability.

QT »

Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

The capacity to lie is noted early and nearly universally in human development. Social psychology and developmental psychology are concerned with the theory of mind, which people employ to simulate another's reaction to their story and determine if a lie will be believable. The most commonly cited milestone, what is known as Machiavellian intelligence, is at the age of about four and a half years, when children begin to be able to lie convincingly.

QT »

Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:15 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

PART 2 innate means: existing in, belonging to, or determined by factors present in an individual from birth.
Behaviors are learned, children are not born with an established set of Good and Bad.

<<<If I really thought this argument was worth it, I could find just as many psychologists who agree with me as you can find who agree with you.
We are all born into sin. Children do not know it's wrong until they are told it is. >>>

The theology which you parrot says children are born into sin. Psychologists who are actually impartial to the Bible, G-d and religion disagree with you and other psychologists who believe in the Fallen Humanity theory of Bible Talk.

Prophet »

Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:02 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

I just wonder where my 3 year old son, who had never been in a day care, and never saw me to it, learned to steal? He didn't learn it from anyone. He was born with it...like every other baby. If I really thought this argument was worth it, I could find just as many psychologists who agree with me as you can find who agree with you.
We are all born into sin. Children do not know it's wrong until they are told it is.

Prophet »

Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

QT,
Wow. Talk about being misled. If you were to actually study the Bible instead of going off a few favorite scriptures, you'd understand that without Jesus we will all go to hell. But, then again, I do not expect someone of the carnal thought to understand the things of the spirit.
23 times in the New Testament the word "hell" is used. 15 of those times by Jesus Himself.

Matthew 5:22 "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Matthew 5:29 "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Matthew 23:33 "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"

Acts 2. When Peter is preaching to the multitudes after the 120 were filled with the Holy Spirit.

So, no, hell was not created by the church centuries later. It was spoken of by Jesus Himself.
Q, if you're going to argue, at least do us the favor of studying and knowing what it is that you are arguing about. Please forgive me, but I am embarassed for you.

QT »

Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

<<<I wish that lying was a learned behaviour...but it's not. It is a natural instinct in order to protect oneself. >>>

Lying is not a natural instinct childern are "born with." I am sorry you disagree, but psychologists don't.
Children who grow up in antisocial families are more likely to be antisocial themselves(lying is an antisocial behavior). Much of the research into why this is so has focused on parents' behavior. A new study finds that the way children perceive their parents' behavior provides clues as to why children of antisocial parents may grow up to be antisocial.
In an effort to determine how antisocial behavior in one generation is transmitted to the next, researchers looked at 430 adolescents and their biological parents across the children's high school years. Specifically, the study examined the adolescents' level of antisocial behavior, the level of such behavior in parents, and the teens' general perceptions of their parents' behavior. Antisocial behavior was defined in terms of substance use, recklessness and breaking laws, arguments and conflicts with others, and lying. The study examined if the effect of parents' antisocial behavior on the teens' antisocial behavior could be explained by the teens' perceptions of their parents as antisocial, as well as by disrupted parenting practices, such as poor monitoring, hostility, and harsh and inconsistent discipline.
http://www.brightsurf.com/news/headlines/28736/Childrens_perceptions_of_their_parents_antisocial_behavior_may_lead_them_to_be_antisocial.html
This study was done by The Society for Research in Child Development.

QT »

Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:36 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

<<<Yes, the Bible says that without Jesus, everyone would go to hell. >>>

No, the scripture you are "prooftexting" in order to validate your personal opinion or the opinion you are parroting, like the one in Romans was written to those people, in that church, in the times it was written. And Jesus who was a Jew would not have stated that anybody would go to HELL. Hell is a concept derived by the "Church" centuries after Jesus philosophized on Earth. Paul or Timothy or Luke had no idea that others would later follow Jesus; therefore not ALL people sin, are given to sin or will sin. All you are doing is lumping EVERYBODY inot a category so that it makes it easier for you to judge, jury and prosecute them- while internally, you THINK you are "evangelizing."

HAWK49 »

Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:26 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

Humanistic psychologist Rollo May, "Today we know a great deal about bodily chemistry and the control of physical diseases; but we know very little about why people hate, why they cannot love, why they suffer anxiety and guilt, and why they destroy each other."
Scientist, mathematician and philosopher Wolfgang Smith:
As a major example I would mention the Darwinian theory of evolution, which (contrary to official belief) is not in fact a scientific hypothesis corroborated by empirical facts, but a philosophic tenet masquerading in scientific garb. As one molecular biologist has put it, Darwinism is ultimately "no more and no less than the great cosmogenetic myth of the twentieth century." The genre of scientistic myth, however, is not limited to the sphere of biology; it is to be found even in the physical domain. When it comes to psychology and the social sciences, moreover, it appears that myth actually predominates.

search4god »

Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Greetings and Salutations,

You have heard it said that only unforgivable sin is to deny the Holy Ghost, the "comforter". Many understand this to be suicide. I will tell you in truth that anyone who denies comfort to his neighbor risks the judgment. Anyone who denies such hope and comfort to the point of causing the suicide of another is guilty of the killing. This is denial of the Holy Ghost.

Many might lift the head above the neighbor and claim them children of Satan. I say unto you, who but the Father is the power of creation? The only power which Satan has is the power of "deception". It is easy to know truth, it is much harder and far more important to know that which is false.
Have we not been told by Jesus the Christ that the church leaders and translators of the Scripture have confused it for the sake of their own selfish purpose.

"...even the women and children were thieves and murderers." "If a man should sojourn unto your land, give him water for his thirst and a place of shade to rest."

The sin of Sodom is inhospitality to strangers, unless one reads the story as an adolescent reads a National Geographic Magazine, looking for a picture of a naked tribes-person. The Bible is NOT pornography.

Be not confused. "That which ye do to the Least of his Children, so do ye unto the Father"
"Ye shall pay every whit for that which ye have wrought"

We are admonished to accept our neighbor as ourself. This comes with NO EXCEPTIONS.
Love.

canadianchristian »

Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:16 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

QT,
Don't quote the bible if your not going to read it in it's entirety.Christians treat the sin of homosexuality like any other sin,murder,theft,adultery, etc. What christians and non christians don't want is a small special interest group forcing their decadent sinful beleifs on the majority of the population, same sex unions are not a natural union-no children are produced, the continuation of the human race would cease if this was a natural act, it is a willfull,sinful,lustfull unnatural act which benefits no one but the immoral- that is why it is an abomination in the eyes of GOD- like all sin is!!! If you don't like the rules don't shoot the messenger, take it up with GOD, HE loves you no matter what you think and HE will forgive you if your sincere.

Prophet »

Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:08 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

What children DO learn from their parents,isn't lying or stealing, it's whether lying or stealing is allowable. That's what they learn.

Prophet »

Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

I wish that lying was a learned behaviour...but it's not. It is a natural instinct in order to protect oneself. My 2 or 3 year old doesn't have the capacity to reason what lying really is. All the child knows it that he/she got caught doing something, and he/she doesn't want to be caught. So they instinctively lie. But what they do learn from adults is how to make it a habit, and how to hone that skill.
My son didn't learn to lust from anyone. It's a natural affect. But he does learn from his friends how to feed that lust with websites and magazines. My son didn't learn to steal from anyone, because I don't steal. As I said, at the age of 2 or 3, the reasoning skills haven't been developed that much. All he knows is that he sees something he wanted. And he's going to take it.

QT »

Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:39 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

<<<QT,
Another point on being born into sin.
Where does a child learn to lie? Nowhere. It's inherent. It's a natural reaction. Children are born with it. >>>

Lying is learned behaviour. No one is born with the behaviour of lying according to psychologists. I realize according to you and other Bible followers, everyone is born "into" sin and just sin "naturally." However, psychologists who actually study behaviour-- disagree with your assertions.
Children are born with a clean cognitive slate, and around age three and a half, a child may begin to understand that he can purposely use language to tell you something that isn't true. Children lie for the following reasons:
Fear of disappointing a parent
Avoiding punishment
Seeking attention
Crying out for help
Avoiding stressful situations
Imitating the behavior of the adults around him

I think one of the biggest reasons is ADULTS, children typically mirror what they see around them, so if they are lying well... probably their parents are teaching them to do it!

Prophet »

Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

QT,
Another point on being born into sin.
Where does a child learn to lie? Nowhere. It's inherent. It's a natural reaction. Children are born with it. The same is true for stealing. Coveting. Lust (not just sexual either). We are all born into it. I'm not saying that we are habitual about one sin or the other, but we all do, on occasion, display our weakness in those (and other) areas. And one sin is enough to separate us from God. And try as we might, we will never cease from sinning. Because we are born into it. It is our flesh's "default value", so to speak. So we need God's mercy and forgiveness.

Prophet »

Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

QT,
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"
Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned"

Yes, the Bible says that without Jesus, everyone would go to hell.

QT »

Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:37 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 4

<<<First off, everyone on this planet are "hell bound sinners", it is only by the grace of God are we saved. >>>

That's only if you subscribe to that teaching. You see, dear soul, the Bible doesn't say anywhere that everybody is "hell bound" or a "sinner." YOUR theology and religion teaches that none of your opinions will ever make what you have said truth, so you might search the scriptures, and your heart.

<<<Second, it is not Christians that are throwing sexual practices out for all to see, it is the homosexual movement for they are the ones that are calling attention to their sexual practices and require all accept it or be called "hatemongers" and "intollerant" and the like. >>>

Oh really? Then why do Christians even enter this argument? Can't Christians just serve Christ and practice their religion and leave others ALONE, no, they can't because they like to talk about homosexuals, what types of sexual things they do(real or imaginary) and how long they will burn in hell for being an abomination. I think they call your little game BLAME THE VICTIM.

<<<Marriage is something that God has created, not Man, God created Us to be together as man and woman, it isn't a knee jerk action, it has been in scripture for generations. >>>

No, it is something human beings have created- it is a social custom. I realize that most Christians don't read much anthropology, but marriage has evolved into a social custom with a whole list of traditions and celebrations... where in the bbile does it describe marriage as celebrated by humans TODAY? Oh, that would be nowhere.

Slacker »

Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:13 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 3

To Citizen:

"kunokiko: It's amazing how many evangelical/fundamentalist Christians forget that marriage is already enjoyed by many people who said Christians believe are "hell-bound sinners" acting contrary to "God's WIll", yet not a peep until a group whom they can visually identify (and causes their brains to immediately jump to thinking about sex practices that make them nervous for some odd reason) wants marriage as well. For these reasons, the opposition to marriage equality comes from heterosexual entitlement and a knee-jerk tribalist mentality, both of which are wholly inappropriate as a basis for public policy. It is not in any way principled. "

First off, everyone on this planet are "hell bound sinners", it is only by the grace of God are we saved. Second, it is not Christians that are throwing sexual practices out for all to see, it is the homosexual movement for they are the ones that are calling attention to their sexual practices and require all accept it or be called "hatemongers" and "intollerant" and the like. Marriage is something that God has created, not Man, God created Us to be together as man and woman, it isn't a knee jerk action, it has been in scripture for generations.

HAWK49 »

Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:08 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

kunokiko;
To some extent I see your point. Mat 7:6 implies not to use scripture with unbelievers for correction. However, God has given us the institutions of family, church and state and the charge to be salt and light to the world. Since we are in the world (and not to be of it) we have a command to participate as salt and light. As long as God has given us this particular state, a constitutional republic, with the inherent responsibility of having a voice in the state do you not consider the charge to be salt and light as part of the state's operation? To be a participant in the political process? If we don't participate and try to elect Godly men into office to carry out God's will for governing and law making then have we not disobeyed our charge? Have we not left the state in the hands of ungodly men and their own devices?

NoWire »

Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:46 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Barner of FotF says: "We believe isolated portions of Scripture should not be used to justify a personal preference or a social position that goes in a different direction than the overall message of Scripture.”


Whoo! Did everyone catch that? This from an organization that has specialized in doing just that since its inception. That is exactly what non-fundamentlaist Christians have been saying for years, and this guy goes and steals it when it suits his argument. Unbelievable.

Citizen »

Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:22 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

kunokiko: It's amazing how many evangelical/fundamentalist Christians forget that marriage is already enjoyed by many people who said Christians believe are "hell-bound sinners" acting contrary to "God's WIll", yet not a peep until a group whom they can visually identify (and causes their brains to immediately jump to thinking about sex practices that make them nervous for some odd reason) wants marriage as well. For these reasons, the opposition to marriage equality comes from heterosexual entitlement and a knee-jerk tribalist mentality, both of which are wholly inappropriate as a basis for public policy. It is not in any way principled.

kunokiko »

Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:41 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

I kinda look at this at a different angle. If the people of this world want to include the union of two people of the same sex in marriage, then let them. Because we aren't really people of this world. We're merely pilgrims passing through. We know that our time in this world is short compared to the eternity in the kingdom of God. Just because our state calls a couple a "married couple" doesn't mean that it is also binding in the eyes of God. I mean, non Christians get married all the time in Courthouses and through notaries, completely in the absense of the blessings of God. I don't really think that these marriages are going to be binding in the Kingdom of God. So...let the people of this world have their "marriages," for we only care about that is bind in the eyes of God in the Kingdom of God.

HAWK49 »

Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:52 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

IronPillar,
First, I want to make it clear that my comment was not directed towards your post which preceeded mine. Second, the definitions you posted do have different meanings ranging from discernemt to condemning and punishing. Mat 7:1-5 forms a complete thought regarding judging a person's heart harshly as many commentaries support. Jesus did not prohibit judging for other situations as Mat 7:6 makes very clear and the other situations I noted. I believe you missed my point about Mat 7:6; true, that verse does not use the term 'judge' but rather implies that we have to judge (discern, not punish) to distinguish those that hate the truth Vs those that love the truth. God Bless and pray that as iron sharpens iron man sharpens man.

Anabele »

Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:18 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

All I personally have to say, and ALWAYS have for the past 30 years since giving my life/heart over to Jesus is THIS "JUST BECAUSE ONE DOES NOT BELIEVE THE BIBLE DOES NOT MAKE IT NOT TRUE!" I have always believed, as well as practiced, that "People don't care how much YOU know until they know how much YOU care about them." We can only pray for Obama, however, I do have ONE MAJOR opinion regarding this individual and that is.....you can tell me all day long how much of a "Christian" he personally is, BUT, his MOTHER is STILL a practicing Muslim based on information I have and I have a son and I can ASSURE you he loves the SAME GOD I love and raised him to love. I would suggest people out there who are "considering" voting for him just based on his profressed dChristianity to most definitely, and I mean most definitely, consider this ONE MAJOR because when push comes to shove, most individuals return to the "God of their rearing." Only my opinion for what it's worth. If there are any typos in this post please forgive as I am legally blind since the past ten years (I'm 51 now) and I KNOW my Lord and Saviour and Jehovah Jirha (Sp)! He's taken me thru some difficullt and situations. Bbefore I lost the majoriy of my sight I studied for several hours every morning before going off to work EVERYDAY so I KNOW the scriptures, especially about studying to show ourselves approved....:) God Bless all and of course it goes without saying we ARE MOST definitely in the end times! Hallelujha! PRAISE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST!!! :)

DannyPoo »

Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:09 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

Obama, read Mark 10, when Jesus was asked about Divorce, he took the time to define marriage as between a male and a female.

Jesus replied. "But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female. 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." Mark 10:5-9

pastorpablito »

Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:49 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

2 Tim 4:2-4 Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage-with great patience and careful instruction. 3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. (NIV)
You can always find someone that will say what you want to here. Paul knew this 2000 years ago. Every person on the planet can can decide that homosexuality is OK, and it still will not change God's mind. Acceptance does not equal forgiveness.

IronPillar »

Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:29 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

Hawk49 - the word judge and judged in Matt. 7:1-2 (the words are not mentioned in verses 3-6) kjv. Meaning Krino kree-no (greek dictionary - James Strong expanded concordance) - properly to distinguish, i.e. decide (mentally or judicially); by implementing to try, condemn, punish. judge/judged does NOT have various meanings. Addressing your questions regarding Matt.7:6 - this principle governs how one handles the gospel in the face of those who hate the truth. Final thought - Pray :)

HAWK49 »

Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:29 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Judge; this word has various meanings and we will do well to understand the distinctions. Mat 7:1-6 is talking of not judging a persons motivations or heart as this only God can do. However, we are told to judge a person by his fruit. In Mat 7:6 how do we tell who the 'dogs' and 'pigs' are if not by judging? We are told to be ware of false teachers; how do we do that if we don't judge? We are told to expell unrepent sinners from the Body; how do we do that if we do not judge? We are told to judge right from wrong. We can also judge Obama for false teachings from scripture. How do you choose a candidate if you do not judge him/her by a standard? As Christians our only standard is God's standard. Tolerance and diversity are the world's lies as applied against Christians today.

IronPillar »

Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:51 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

Scripture is very clear: 1Cor.6:9-10 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. What is the solution? Confess your sins, accept Jesus and seek God's will daily. Mark 8:34 - And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. This MUST be done daily. Now let's look at 1 Cor. 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. Thank you Jesus!! Our only hope is Jesus :)

bcoontz »

Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:25 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

What we are being asked to accept is that homosexuality is not a sin, when Scripture clearly says that it is. This did not change when we came under the Spirit of grace of the New Testament. If we normalize homosexuality, aren't we then encouraging them to sin? I know that recently there has been some squabbling over what certain Greek words may pertain to in the New Testament in regard to homosexuality, but throughout the Bible the practice is condemned in a variety of ways, so that there should be no misunderstanding. If we take the warnings in I Corintians and Romans seriously, can we do anything but warn them about how serious the consequences are? And if we are "tolerant" of this behavior and they end up in hell as a result, are we not in a way culpable? Ezekiel 33:8-9 says, "When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man you will surely die,' and you do not speak out to dissuade him from his ways, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man to turn from his ways and he does not do so, he will die for his sin, but you will have saved yourself." All we can do is sound the warning.

Prophet »

Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:36 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

I like that scripture he quoted "Do unto others as you would have them do to you." I live by that. If my brother sees me sinning a sin that could destroy me, I'd want them to tell me. So, I am doing unto others as I want done to me.
The probleim with a majority of homosexuals, is that they don't want to be warned.

ShuckCreations »

Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

findingfaith,
Oh I agree with you whole-heartedly. I was just merely stating that one can judge. Should we? Probably not. I dunno. It really depends on the person you're speaking with. For some showing them where they are wrong works fantastically. For others it may only push them away even more. You really need to know who you're talking to before getting into theological discussions. Which is where I think loving your neighbor is a good thing to live by. You must become friends first and then gain their trust. Once that has developed then offer some insight into their sins. That's the way I do it at least. :)

findingfaith »

Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:59 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

ShuckCreations - Thank you for the guidance :) Yes, you're right, we do have the right to judge, and it is our mission to "spread the light of Christ".

That said, I don't believe (and this is my personal belief - others are free to disagree) that spreading the light of Christ involves judgement. Neither does embracing all people mean not helping them find the way. It means accepting who they are and who they have the potential to become. It means helping them find the way with kindness, patience and tollerance. We can show them the path, but it is ultimately their choice to accept it or not.

That, to me, is what "do to others what you would have them do to you" means to me. If we take nothing else from scripture (whether a person accepts scripture as Truth, or as myth), I pray that we all take those few simple words to heart.

ShuckCreations »

Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:48 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

findingfaith, I must correct you. We do have the right to judge. Men were judged accordingly all throughout the old testament. And though we may not live by the old covenant anymore God still talks about judgement. “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn others, or it will all come back against you. Forgive others, and you will be forgiven." (Luke 6:37) You see he says it's better not to judge because you will be judged just as equally. However, nowhere does he say you can't.

When a person is judged he is held accountable and for that I welcome judgement. I know I'm not perfect and neither are you for every man lives in sin. When you tell me of my sin, or I of yours, our eyes should be opened to it and fix it. Whether we already were or not doesn't matter, being told by someone else sometimes brings us to a realization that we can't hide in our sin and that it still needs to be repented.

Lastly, I'll comment on this statement:

"For me, I choose to embrace all people - gay, straight, Christian, Muslim - as my brothers and sisters because God teaches tollerance, acceptance, generosity and kindness. Their choices are not mine to judge. "

While this is true in a sense, if we merely accept people for who they are without letting them know the greatness that is Christ Jesus and how to repent what good are we to them? We all have only one calling in this life and that is to spread the light of Christ to everyone!

So to summarize judging has never hurt anyone if used in the right ways. Constructive critisism is used a lot to help people better themselves and so by judging you can do the same. Well there's my 2¢, take it with a grain of salt or with an open mind. Your choice.

findingfaith »

Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:04 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 6

jessephillips - I completely agree :)

HAWK49 - You're right. God gave us government to help lead us the right way. And that is why it is so important for each of us to vote for the candidate we feel best upholds what is right.


God did not give us the right to judge. That is for Him and Him alone. Each of us has opinions and lifestyles that others may not agree with, but we expect to be given the freedom to use free will in making our own choices. I think that is what Obama meant is using the Sermon on the Mount. “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you.”

Our governments give us the freedom to CHOOSE to be Christian, and to CHOOSE our faith. It also gives us the freedom to use our FREE WILL - our God-given gift of free will. Some may use it poorly. But it is their right to do so. Again, their GOD-GIVEN right to do so.

It is not for us to judge, only for us to extend to everyone the same respect and courtesies we would want for ourselves. I think that is what Obama was getting at - Let people use their free will. And in that, I agree.

Should you turn away from those who you feel act sinfully? That is your choice. It is your choice to speak against them and berate their choices. God gave us free will and His guidance. Those are our gifts to do with them what we will.

For me, I choose to embrace all people - gay, straight, Christian, Muslim - as my brothers and sisters because God teaches tollerance, acceptance, generosity and kindness. Their choices are not mine to judge.

summathetes »

Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:38 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

The disconnect between the pursuit of education to acquire knowledge and understanding and the beliefs of individuals based on feeling is ever widening, but so it goes with those who preach a social gospel. They corrupt the minds of those under their tutelage in part because of a lack of education (2 Tim 3:1-7). They know not what they speak of (Heb 5:11-14).

Science has the scientific method in guiding scientists to their conclusions.

Grammarians study syntax, grammar, and context to offer meaning and understanding to a language.

Biblical interpretation should always implement hermeneutics (art and science of interpreting Scripture) in determining the proper meaning of Scripture.

Obama clearly has not been taught correctly and neither have those who teach him.

QT »

Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:30 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

<<<Why are we fighting these battles!!!??? Seriously, let's focus on loving people and helping the poor, then homosexuals will get saved and repent! But legislating morality IS NOT GOING TO WORK!>>>

I wouldn't get saved and repent if that was the attitude I found in Christians like this poster. In fact, it that very attitude that keeps people from the knowledge of G-d. I think it's really funny how many adulterous, obese and false Christians hang out in churches hoping others will stop being "sinful" while they blindly disregard their own sins. In fact, many in church leadership are committing the most heinious sins while preaching against people they are prejudiced against. Is this the image of G-d we need, or is it just so convenient?