JERUSALEM - Thousands of Israelis gathered outside a bullet-scarred Jerusalem rabbinical seminary on Friday to begin funeral processions for eight students killed by a suspected Palestinian gunman.
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(Photo: AP Images / Kevin Frayer)Israelis react during the funeral for eight Jewish yeshiva students that were killed in a shooting attack by a Palestinian gunman Thursday, at the Mercaz Harav Yeshiva in Jerusalem, Friday, March 7, 2008. The eight, most of them teenagers, were killed by a Palestinian gunmen in a nighttime attack on the library at the rabbinical seminary where they were studying.
A bearded rabbi recited Hebrew psalms line by line, the crowd repeating after him, in memory of the dead, one of whom was 26 and the rest between ages 15 and 19. People packed nearby balconies to observe the ceremony, after which the bodies were to be taken for burial.
Thursday's shooting, which also left nine wounded, was the first major attack in Jerusalem in four years and the deadliest incident in Israel since a suicide bomber killed 11 people in Tel Aviv on April 17, 2006. It came on the heels of a surge in fighting between Israelis and Palestinians and further threatened already faltering peace talks.
Israeli defense officials have not identified the gunman — who was slain during the attack — but said he came from east Jerusalem, home to Palestinians who hold Israeli ID cards that give them freedom of movement in Israel, unlike Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.
The gunman opened fire in the seminary's library, which was crowded for a nighttime study session. Students scrambled to flee the attack, jumping out of windows. Holy books drenched in blood littered the floor.
Afterward, the Jewish seminarians gathered outside the library and screamed for revenge, shouting, "Death to Arabs," while in Hamas-controlled Gaza thousands of Palestinians celebrated in the streets.
Mahmoud Abbas, the moderate Palestinian president with whom Israel is negotiating a peace agreement, condemned the attack. But by Friday morning some Israeli lawmakers called on the government to break off talks.
"The government must immediately halt all negotiations and eradicate terrorism in every way possible," said David Rotem of the hardline Yisrael Beiteinu party. "Later, when we have someone to talk with, we can hold negotiations," he told Israel Radio.
Others rejected that call.
"It's the job of a responsible leadership, a logical leadership, to say in moments like these, looking at the blood, at the cries for revenge ... that we, at least we in Israel, will do everything we can in order not to be dragged into this cycle," dovish lawmaker Yossi Beilin told Israel Radio.
Hamas militants, who have been battling Israel during a weeklong surge in violence in Gaza, praised the attack in a statement but stopped just short of claiming responsibility. "We bless the operation. It will not be the last," Hamas said in a statement.
Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said the attacker walked through the seminary's main gate and entered the library, where witnesses said some 80 students were gathered. He carried an assault rifle and pistol, and used both weapons in the attack. Rosenfeld said at least six empty bullet clips were found on the floor.
The seminary is the Mercaz Harav yeshiva, a prestigious center of Jewish studies identified with the leadership of the Jewish settlement movement in the West Bank. It serves some 400 high school students and young Israeli soldiers, and many of them carry arms.
David Simchon, head of the seminary, said the students were preparing a celebration for the new month on the Jewish calendar, which includes the holiday of Purim. "We were planning to have a Purim party here tonight and instead we had a massacre," he told Channel 2 TV.
The gunman was killed by a seminary graduate who is an army officer and lives nearby, Simchon said Friday. The officer rushed into the seminary with his weapon and killed the gunman, he told Israel Radio: "He saw the terrorist shooting, and with amazing resourcefulness he went into one of the rooms and managed to kill him." Continue >>
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aritonang OK then.
scitsonga are lost and dead wrong on all your posting here
aritonang you make little sense.
Oh I think you have made your stand clear that when Ala Abu Dhaim of East Jerusalem murdered eight Mercaz Harav Yeshiva students a few days before, you belittle it because the victims are Jewish teenagers. And you refuse to answer the question I pose to you if two of those 8 victims are your sons. Yes, you are anti Semitic and you are trying very hard to justify a depraved atrocity. PS: Is not being agnostic showed how you cannot separate good from evil?
aritonang "justifying the east jerusalemite terrorist."
Wrong, where did I justify the attack? Please show me. I have only been trying to show that terrorism exists on both sides of the Arab-Israeli conflict and that terrorism is as old as man-kind. You are misrepresenting my position. You refuse to answer the question of posed to you and you misrepresent me as being anti-Semitic. Your postings really make little sense, and I would say I am not going to waste anymore time with you. I think we are done here.
PS Isn't bearing false witness against someone a sin in your religion?
Dear scitsonga, the anti semitic person"
Imagine there is a birthday celebration in your home. No less than 400 teenagers gather there along with your kids and your spouse. Then an angry Muslim gets inside your home from the backdoor and proceeds to shoot these teenagers along with members of your family. You and your spouse manage to escape from the window, but 2 of your sons were slaughtered by the Muslim along with 6 others. In the process he also managed to fatally wound 20-30 peoples including scitsonga mother.
An off duty police officer who lives next door manage to get his weapons and kill this Muslim before he shot scitsonga daughter. Inside his clothes police found Quran verses quoting to kill the great satan who support Israel and the Iraqi occupation and fight until all religion is for allah.
In the press conference, another neighbors, also an agnostic, said the killing is understandable because the Muslim is from Gaza and one of the recently dead 120 Gazan was his relative. It turns out that this Muslim was so angry but could not find a way to attack the US Israeli embassy or the police station, let alone the IDF base in Sderot, so he chose scitsonga son birthday party
Your agnostic neighbor said that terrorism is centuries old, one mans terrorist is one mans freedom fighter and therefore killing scitsonga kids and several others teenagers are understandable. What is your comment for this friendly agnostic friend? Do you say uh perhaps you are right or maybe we ought to say something to the Muslim when he showed up at the backdoor or possibly the Muslim have legitimate claim to slaughter my kids and their friends.
Yes, you are anti semitic scitsonga. The murdered victims are Jewish teenagers that is why you make light of the attack, justifying the east jerusalemite terrorist.
What if your kids are the ones who got shot? Do you accept justifications for the murder of your kids? Just because the teenagers are Jewish does not make it alright.
Again - you scitsonga are lost and dead wrong on all your posting here
aritonang, Well I guess your not going to answer my question, just rant. I'm sorry to say your posts dont make much sense. Oh well, too bad, so sad.
PS I am not anti-semitic. You are a very accusatory person. Please list where I have posted either explicit or implicit anti-semitic comments.
PPS I hope you stopped accusing me of flagging your posts.
While in the corner the police officers and the reporters are studying the lot of your agnostics people, hey- they said- these agnostics make me sick. That one lost sons and a daughter plus mother, but these agnostics so called friends are trying very hard to calm that poor agnostic couple saying stupid parallels of this senseless murders of children. Well then scitsonga, do you agree with your lost agnostic friends who said that the killing of your kids is legitimate and justifiable or do you say something else perhaps? Your logic in the murdered Jerusalem Yeshiva boys is disgusting - you know YOU ARE ANTI SEMITIC
Well, then scitsonga imagine a bit more: both your son is in the morgue and you and scitsonga spouse cannot even recognize them because the bullets damage their bodies extensively and left them unrecognizable. Scitsonga can only recognise his sons by DNA verification. In fact, when the Muslim started to shoot, both scitsonga sons was the closest and therefore hit with more bullets - and looks mutilated.
Scitsonga mother was in the intensive care along with scitsonga daughter, because the Muslim managed to riffle-butt scitsonga daugher before being mowed down by scitsonga neighbour the off duty police.
Then the agnostic friend also accompany scitsonga to the hospital and morgue, this is the one who said that the killing is understandable because the Muslim is from Gaza and one of the recently dead 120 Gazan was his relative, and also terrorism is centuries old, one mans terrorist is one mans freedom fighter and therefore killing scitsonga kids and several others teenagers are understandable.
Then at the hospitals the agnostic friend said to scitsonga and scitsonga spouse, hey- you know if the Apache Indians decided enough is enough, but afraid to attack a police station let alone the army barrack then decide to collect scitsonga mother and scitsonga daughter scalps instead – then we guess it would be alright too, considering their condition it might as well be game over. What is scitsonga respond? Uh perhaps you are right or maybe we ought to say something to the Muslim and the Indians when they showed up at the backdoor or possibly the Muslim and the Indians have legitimate claim to slaughter scitsonga kids and their friends plus scitsonga mother.
aritonang
"scitsonga, why do you delete my comments on several other article.
do you support censorhips like danny2/danny/first/bob?"
I noticed this a charge you have been making against me on a number of posting. Please stop, because it is not me. In fact, I dont see where your post have been deleted. You have engaged in a number of insults towards me, but I have flagged none of them.
Perhaps its a dodge from a very simple question I have been trying to get you to answer:
Lets assume you own a home or land in the United States, how would you feel if American Indians forcefully displaced you from your home because they claimed God commanded them to take back the land that the Christian Europeans took from them? Would you fight or hand them the keys and say thank you?
scitsonga, why do you delete my comments on several other article.
do you support censorhips like danny2/danny/first/bob?
scitsonga, imagine there is a birthday celebration in your home. No less than 400 teenagers gather there along with your kids and your spouse. Then an angry Muslim gets inside your home from the backdoor and proceeds to shoot these teenagers along with members of your family. You and your spouse manage to escape from the window, but 2 of your sons were slaughtered by the Muslim along with 6 others. In the process he also managed to fatally wound 20-30 peoples including scitsonga mother.
An off duty police officer who lives next door manage to get his weapons and kill this Muslim before he shot scitsonga daughter. Inside his clothes police found Quran verses quoting to kill the great satan who support Israel and the Iraqi occupation and fight until all religion is for allah.
In the press conference, another neighbors, also an agnostic, said the killing is understandable because the Muslim is from Gaza and one of the recently dead 120 Gazan was his relative. It turns out that this Muslim was so angry but could not find a way to attack the US Israeli embassy or the police station, let alone the IDF base in Sderot – so he chose scitsonga son birthday party
Your agnostic neighbor said that terrorism is centuries old, one mans terrorist is one mans freedom fighter and therefore killing scitsonga kids and several others teenagers are understandable. What is your comment for this friendly agnostic friend? Do you say –uh perhaps you are right or maybe we ought to say something to the Muslim when he showed up at the backdoor or possibly the Muslim have legitimate claim to slaughter my kids and their friends.
Getting a bit testy there aritonang
You appear to be reluctant to answer the question i posed to you, allow me to repeat:
"aritonang, Let me ask you this question. Lets assume you own a home or land in the United States, how would you feel if American Indians forcefully displaced you from your home because they claimed God commanded them to take back the land that the Christian Europeans took from them? Would you fight or hand them the keys and say thank you?
"Again - you scitsonga are lost and dead wrong on all your posting here"
Again- No aritonang, actually I'm not lost. I have a family, a career and make my contributions to my family and society. Life has been difficult in many ways for me, but I manage reasonably well, but I would not say I am lost.
Just because I don't agree with you and I'm not religious does not mean I am "lost".
"Agnostic would not understand all things that happen there."
I know about the influence of Western imperialism in ME for oil and I know Arabs and Jews are fighting over the same piece of land and I know a lot of the fighting has to do with religion.
scitsonga, why are you here in TCP? Looking for answers? You wont get it by discussing it on news commentary. I suggest you do a lot of scripture reading and praying before you claim other people to be blinded. You do not know the things that happen to me while I was a militant and unrepentant irreligious, surprise?. Reading helps a lot of agnostics and skeptics –make them see things more clearly and with proper background –and not a lot of uhmm perhaps this or maybe that or I think or possibly those
Agnostic would not understand all things that happen there. In the Middle East people are not afraid to die for their belief in the holy Bible –how about you lost ones? Why dont you go there and see for yourself, plus read the Bible and the Quran instead of commenting that you know the issues already.
Your post showed that you cannot morally distinct when the victims are little boys aged 15-19 in a Yeshiva (Jewish religious high school) library at night before celebrating Purim. For you, those little boys are the same as the 120 Palestinian dead terrorist and the dead people inside King David Hotels in the 30s when it was a mandate MILITARY HQ. Hotels used as temporary military HQ is legitimate military target, while schools are not.
Again - you scitsonga are lost and dead wrong on all your posting here
aritonang "God gave that tiny sliver in the Levant to the Israelites and we can read about it in the holy Bible."
that statement says it all, the problems in the ME are about the crazy notions of the three Abrahamic religions. The other problems of course are those created by Europe and the US to protect their oil interests over the last 90 decades. The mixing of OIL & RELIGION in the ME has been a very dangerous combination for Arabs, Persians, Jews and the world.
aritonang, Let me ask you this question. Lets assume you own a home or land in the United States, how would you feel if American Indians forcefully displaced you from your home because they claimed God commanded them to take back the land that the Christian Europeans took from them?
"God gave that tiny sliver in the Levant to the Israelites"
Where was God when Europeans were killing Jews by the millions during the Holocaust?
"And you scitsonga are lost and dead wrong on all your posting here."
No aritonang, actually I'm not lost. I have a family, a career and make my contributions to my family and society. Life has been difficult in many ways for me, but I manage reasonbly well, but I would not say I am lost.
For a guy that claims to have lived in the ME for 13 years, you dont seem to get it. Perhaps too much religion has blinded any objectivity, that can easily happen.
(1)
scitsonga, I have reread your post and all your other posts in TCP. You, scitsonga are lost and without no idea which way is up or down in the Middle East and Israel.
Meanwhile I have lived in the Middle East for 13 years now. My friends are Jews and Christians and even Muslims, but not agnostics like you – let alone atheist. Agnostics are comically wishy-washy and based their arguments on individual thoughts only and not something with meaning. A 2006 nationwide poll by the University of Minnesota identified atheists as America most distrusted minority. Same here in the Middle East, we are more suspicious of agnostic who we put with together with atheist, than we do the Muslims.
Your post showed that you cannot morally distinct when the victims are little boys aged 15-19 in a Yeshiva (Jewish high school) library at night before celebrating Purim. For you, those little boys are the same as the 120 Palestinian dead terrorist and the dead people inside King David Hotels in the 30’s when it was a mandate MILITARY HQ. Hotels used as temporary military HQ is legitimate target, while schools.
(2)
What I am saying scitsonga, your judgment are more depraved than the Muslim terrorists, not all of them agree with the Yeshiva attacks thus no Jihadi organization claims it. Meanwhile you agree that the Yeshiva boys are legitimate military target.
God gave that tiny sliver in the Levant to the Israelites and we can read about it in the holy Bible. The Israeli would make mass aliyah to Canada if the Torah says God gave Saskatchewan to them. But no, god gave the Canaan. Palestinian ancestors are from Cyprus. True Canaanites have perished a long time ago along with most of the Gibeonites.
Arab land stretch from Morocco to Syria and from Iraq to the Saudis and Yemen, more land for the Arabs than they can inhabit. Palestinians are not the same as Arab, scitsonga.
Why does the Arab want this tiny peace of a land and ignore the other vast Arabian land? Please read in the Quran and do not read agnostic 2-pages info on Quran and Islam.
There is a war in here, scitsonga- and not everybody is using Christian rule of engagement in their operation. I have a problem with cluster bomb killing civilian but we are not discussing the cluster bomb are we –nor the Reagan contra. We are discussing the yeshiva boys murder case.
And you scitsonga are lost and dead wrong on all your posting here.
aritonang, Reread my posts, both sides of the Israeli-Arab conflict have much blood on their hands. It all started when Zionists took over land of the Arabs had occupied for many centuries. A Jewish state should probably have been carved out of some place in Europe, it was the Europeans that slaughtered the Jews, not the Arabs. Why did the Arabs have to pay the price? I would say its not too late to solve the problem. Give the Jews of Israel a region of the US in the desert SW for their country (you see I am not anti-Semitic). Place them in a region which would require minimum displacement of Americans. The ones that get displaced could be compensated very generously. Although, some displaced Americans might resist to the point of becoming terrorists, just as the Arabs have done or as you might do if someone took your home. That’s what Christian Europeans did to the indigenous peoples of the Americas-took their land and put them in reservations and camps.
I noticed you dont seem to have a problem with Israeli and US cluster bombs that kill civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and they, knowing full well, that civilians are being killed.
What about reagans contra "freedom fighters" that were responsible for the murder of thousands of innocent people? Please comment on that.
scitsonga, I belive it is you that is missing the point entirely. Targeting yeshivas, madrassa, high schools and Christian seminary are different from targeting hotels used as military HQ.
This depraved act is done in retaliation of the killing of 120 palestinian gunmen. So this terrorist consider equal gunmen and unarmed high school kids.
The muslim understand this difference which you missed entirely, so does the Jews and Christians- and therefore no organization officially claims this as their succesful program. The terrorist are identified as lone east jerusalemite with no ties to Hamas or Fatah or Hisbullah. Everybody do not consider high schools as legitimate military target.
aritonang I believe you are missing the point entirely. Terrorism is centuries old, one mans terrorist is one mans freedom fighter. ronald reagans contra's, he called freedom fighters, were responsible for the deaths of entire families.
"Do you see any difference when the victims are helpless little kids instead of armed grownups?"
US and Israeli cluster bombs dont discriminate between the two.
"We do not see Irgun fighters killing 8 kids aged 15-19 in madrassah."
when the irgun terrorist placed a bomb in the basement of the King David, they attacked civilians, how many children were killed?
As long as two different peoples are fighting over the same territory, there will be war and terrorism until one group wipes out the other. That's how the Europeans conquered the America's- basically exterminated the indigenous peoples and sent the survivors to reservations and concentration camps.
scitsonga:
From your list which I question the source,
We do not see Irgun fighters killing 8 kids aged 15-19 in madrassah (islamic seminary if you dont understand madrassah) when they are about to celebrate Ied ul Fitr or Ied ul Hajj, do we.
Do you see any difference when the victims are helpless little kids instead of armed grownups?
Lets say a Hamas suicide bombers attack a Jewish day care center in Herzliya and manage to murder eight 2-4 years old TODDLERS, do you see it differently if the suicide bombers attack the IDF tactical base at Sderot and kill 8 fully armed officers?
How about when somebody decide to mow down a kindergarten in Denver, Colorado and murder 8 toddlers before a security guard clipped him off, do you see it differently if that terrorist attack US marine base in Baghdad?
Oh my …
aritonang, both side are responsible for the deaths of children,either directly or indirectly.
A list of terror attacks attributed to Irgun during the 1930s, from Perliger and Weinberg, Jewish Self Defense and Terrorist Groups Prior to the Establishment of the State of Israel: Roots and Traditions. Totalitarian Movements & Political Religions, Vol. 4, No. 3 (2003) 91-118.:
1936 2 Arab workers in a banana plantation killed -
1937 2 Arabs killed on Bat-Yam beach -
1938: 2 Arabs and 2 British policemen were killed by a bomb in a train in Haifa. -
An Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa -
An Arab policeman was killed in an attack on a bus in the Jerusalem-Hebron road. -
3 Arabs were shot and killed in Haifa. -
2 Arabs were killed near Tel-Aviv. -
7 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jaffa. -
An Arab was killed in the yard of a hospital in Haifa. -
7 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Tel-Aviv. -
3 Arabs were killed by a bomb detonated in a bus in Jerusalem. -
an Arab was killed in another attack in Jerusalem. -
8 Arabs and 5 Jews were killed by two simultaneous bombs in the Arab Melon market in
Haifa.
4 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jerusalem. -
10 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jerusalem. -
53 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa. -
24 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jaffa. -
1939: 33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem. -
5 Arabs were killed by a mine detonated at the Rex cinema in Jerusalem. -
5 Arabs were shot and killed during a raid on the village of Biyar 'Adas. -
5 Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem -
A post office in Jerusalem was bombed, killing a British bomb expert trying to defuse the bombs. -
6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Jerusalem. -
20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa. -
13 Arabs were killed in multiple shootings during one-hour period. -
An Arab was killed at a marketplace in Jerusalem. -
On the same day 2 Arabs were shot and killed in Lifta. -
July 3, 1939 An Arab was killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa. -
2 Arabs were killed in two attacks in Jerusalem. -
An Arab was killed at a train station in Jaffa. -
6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Tel-Aviv. -
3 Arabs were killed in Rehovot. -
2 British officers were killed by a mine in Jerusalem. -
sCitsonga:
The parallel of this tragedy would be the Irgun fighters attack a madrassa and murder children aged 15 thru 19 who are studying Quran and Hadith
See the difference
If the East Jerusalemite terrorist attack the IDF military headquarters or the PM Olmert office or Defense secretary Barak it would be understandable.
But the cowardice of the terrorist just amazes me -
What next? Attacking Jewish day care center, emergency room at a Christian hospital?
aritonang:
Few people, except perhaps the Arabs, remember that the Zionist used terrorism to help in the establishment of Israel, here is one example of a terrorist act committed by the Zionist. The King David Hotel bombing (1946) was a terrorist bomb attack against the British Mandate government of Palestine by members of the Irgun, which was a militant Zionist organization and was led at the time by Menachem Begin ( the future Prime Minister of Israel).
Members of the Irgun, dressed as Arabs and as the Hotel's distinctive Sudanese waiters, planted a bomb in the basement of the Hotel in Jerusalem, part of which was being used as the base for the Mandate Secretariat, the British military headquarters. The ensuing explosion caused the collapse of the much of the hotel. 91 people were killed, most of them staff of the secretariat and the hotel: 28 British, 41 Arab, 17 Jewish, and 5 others. Around 45 people were injured. Some of the deaths and injuries occurred in the road outside the hotel and in adjacent buildings.
The attack on the hotel was the deadliest attack against the British in the history of the Mandate and is often credited as being a major factor in the British decision to relinquish the Mandate -yes terrorism can work and no Muslims did not invent terrorism contrary to what most American might believe. Forms of terrorism have been around since the dawn of man. The US has engaged in its own terrorism at various times in its history. Support of the contras in Central America in the 1980's by ronald reagan would be a good example of state sponsored terrorism.
"Our deepest condolences to the families of the murdered children."
I too share in those condolences, but lets not forget that both sides of the Israelis -Arab conflict have much blood on their hands. Both side have killed innocents, including children.
I believe it is high time that the current Israeli administration alter the current freedom granted to East Jerusalem carrying Israeli ID. How a terrorist can went freely to this prominent yeshiva carrying a rifle and a pistol without being stopped is incomprehensible. Needless to say, security arrangement at yeshivas needs to be increased. While IDF focus on Gaza and the West Bank, this East Jerusalem terrorist move freely and kill Israeli children from the backdoor.
Our deepest condolences to the families of the murdered children.
I have trouble comprehending the mindset of one that would show such vendgence as this. But Im starting to understand why we as Christians are commanded in the Bible to pray for the peace of Jeruselem My heart goes of to these familys that are suffering-I will cont. to pray for them. Jesus commands us to pray for our enemys, so I will, with dificulty-- pray for those that do this evil.
What's up with the flags? Someone thinks they're funny, maybe.
I hope the webmaster puts a stop to the loser flagger. Although the webmaster also does their share of censorship too.
RBB "The next time you hear the ridiculous claim that Muslims consider Jerusalem a holy city please remember this. It's as false a claim as it's being a religion of peace."
I might remind you that it was anti-semitism among Christian Europeans that made possible the Holocaust. Without centuries old anti-semitism in Europe, Hitler would not been able to carry out mass extermination of European Jewry. I believe that if one can make blanket condemnation of Islam, the same can be applied to Christians. Both religions have a very bloody past.
"For Zion's sake I will not keep silent, for Jerusalem's sake I will not remain quiet, til her righteousness shines out like the dawn, her salvation like a blazing torch." ISAIAH 62:1
The next time you hear the ridiculous claim that Muslims consider Jerusalem a holy city please remember this. It's as false a claim as it's being a religion of peace.
So Joshua said to the sons of Israel, "How long will you put off entering to take possession of the land which the LORD, the God of your fathers, has given you? (Joshua 18:3)