Updated 04:40 pm.EST, Sat November 21, 2009

Church|Fri, Mar. 14 2008 12:20 PM EDT

Lutherans Issue Human Sexuality Statement for Review

By Lillian Kwon|Christian Post Reporter

In an unprecedented social statement on human sexuality, a task force of the nation's largest Lutheran denomination said the church should continue to uphold marriage between a man and a woman.

It is the first draft – released Thursday for review by the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America – of a long-awaited statement on family, marriage, sexual morality and the Bible.

"This church recognizes the historic origin of the term 'marriage' as a life-long and committed relationship between a woman and man, and does not wish to alter this understanding," the Draft Social Statement on Human Sexuality stated.

Although the draft upholds traditional marriage, it did not condemn same-sex unions. The panel – comprised of Lutheran clergy, lay people and academics – acknowledged that the denomination had yet to reach consensus on such unions even after years of study and conversation.

Recognizing that there are congregations that regard same-gender sexual relationships as sinful and others that do not, the panel encouraged mutual respect and for congregations to welcome and care for "same-gender-oriented" people and their families.

"In their pastoral response, some pastors and congregations will advocate repentance and celibacy. Other pastors and congregations will call our same-gender-oriented brothers and sisters in Christ to establish relationships that are chaste, mutual, monogamous, and lifelong. These relationships are to be held to the same rigorous standards and sexual ethics as all others," the statement said.

The document further expressed regret that some have used Lutheran historical teachings concerning homosexuality to "tear apart families with gay or lesbian members."

"This church must work toward more understanding of the varieties of sexual identities, seeking for that which is positive and life-giving while protecting from all that is harmful and destructive."

Both a pro-gay group and theological conservatives expressed disappointment in the ELCA draft statement.

Emily Eastwood, executive director of Lutherans Concerned/North America, which represents gays and lesbians, said the draft merely urges respect and tolerance and does not provide religious rites for homosexual couples to make a lifelong commitment, as reported by The Associated Press.

Mark Chavez, who heads the conservative WordAlone Network, argued that the document could be used to let local synods set their own policies on gay clergy.

But the Rev. Rebecca S. Larson, executive director of ELCA Church in Society, stressed that Lutherans do not make up a "rule book of right and wrong behaviors."

Instead, "Lutherans seek to help people make ethical decisions in the midst of the messiness of life," she said, according to the ELCA News Service.

Chicago Bishop Wayne Miller praised the task force for keeping the conversation alive and not recommending changes in policy, although such changes may grow out of the statement.

"There's room for us to grow, but it doesn't dictate that for us," Miller said, according to The Chicago Tribune.

The document is intended to guide the 4.8 million members in setting policy and forming judgments about social issues, officials said.

The panel, nevertheless, highlighted that Scripture is the basis for Christian ethics. Continue »

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  • Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Scripture should be interpreted in light of itself: Jesus Christ The Living Word by His 'The Spirit of Truth' +John 14:17;15:26;16:13; I John 4:6.
    Denominations that want to limp around on these other three tires - 'human experience,culture and society's changing circumstance'- are in flat error.

  • Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:26 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    "Scripture should be interpreted in light of human experience, culture and society's changing circumstances, the panel stated. "The Lutheran tradition, then, is open to human knowledge.."

    Well THERE's your problem! No wonder they're clueless.

    Isa 55:6-9 "Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
    Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
    For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
    For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. "

  • Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:47 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    GMG,
    You said ""Love your neighbor" does not release us, it binds us to God's will. Grace is for when we fall, it is not a license to blithely ignore God's will."
    Amen! Amen! That is the truth! But those who love the darkness will not believe that. They will not accept that. Because that light shines into their darkness and exposes the sin.

  • GMG »
    Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:54 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    feet

    >>>the three commandments never intended to do away with the law. but by doing them we could fulfill the law.................. to do as christ did."<<<

    Matt 5:17-18 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

    John 12:49-50 "For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."

    John 15:9-10 "As the Father loved me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love".

    Matt 22:37-40 "You shall love the Lord your God with all you heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself'. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

    As stated in Romans 13, "Love..." is the SUMMATION of the law.

    Christ teaches that love is the basis of obedience, and obedience demonstrates love (as in John 15:9-10 above).

    Furthermore, the apostles' teachings (Bible) were the teachings of Christ: John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you."

    So, if Christ taught what His Father told Him to teach, and the apostles taught what Christ told them to teach (which we have in the Bible), then we are bound to God's/Christ's commandments through love. If you are a child of Christ's, then you will "...press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus." (Phil 3:14) This you do for love.

  • Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:10 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    "Recognizing that there are congregations that regard same-gender sexual relationships as sinful and others that do not, the panel encouraged mutual respect and for congregations to welcome and care for "same-gender-oriented" people and their families."

    I see this man walking towards a cliff. But our of 'respect' I do not warn him. After all, I may be wrong.

    No. The Bible clearly teaches that homosexual relationships are wrong. And if I love those who are caught up in this sin, I will warn them, not 'respect' the lies they believe in.

    2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship does righteousness have with lawlessness? And what partnership does light have with darkness?

    2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship does righteousness have with lawlessness? And what partnership does light have with darkness?

  • Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:08 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    the three commandments never intended to do away with the law. but by doing them we could fulfill the law.................. to do as christ did.

  • GMG »
    Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:31 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    That's right feet, all those commandments are about doing harm to your neighbor. You wouldn't want anyone to harm you in those ways, after all, you love yourself. So, if you love your neighbor as you love yourself, you won't break the commandments.

  • Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    romans 13:8Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet,"[a] and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."[b] 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

  • GMG »
    Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:10 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    feet

    Indeed, love is the fulfillment of the law.

    Rom13:9 For the commandments, "you shall not commit adultery," "you shall not murder," "you shall not steal," "you shall not bear false witness," "you shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are ALL SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, "you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

    "Love your neighbor" does not release us, it binds us to God's will. Grace is for when we fall, it is not a license to blithely ignore God's will.

  • Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:13 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,

    Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

    Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,

    Rom 1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

    Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;

    Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

    Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

    Grace and Peace,
    Jim

  • Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:12 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    Star - for the record, I do listen to you because I don't believe that is what was meant by those verses in the Bible - but see, that's what a literal interpretation gets you.

  • Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Star2 - You're a woman, aren't you? So I guess I shouldn't even be listening to you.

  • Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    reedit i meant all of romans.......................... not just romans1

  • Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    my understnding is that there is only one word of god. it is the covenant of christ. it is the spirit of christ. it is christ who is god, and whom god the father put everything under his authority.

    christ came here to fulfill the law.

    in romans,fulfillment of the law is love.
    since loving ones neighbor as onesself is the summation of the law. do we not ourselves fulfill the law when we love our neighbors as ourselves?

    which is greater fulfilling the law which we automatically do by loving.........and by fulfilling automatically follow. , or instead consuming ourselves with merely following a list of do nots. paul said we receive no righteousness by following the law.

    1cor13 says that anything without love is nothing. and anything done without love gains nothing.
    if we do the three commandments: love god. love god, neighbor and self, and one another the way christ loved us ....... is there anything else required?
    CONTINUED

  • Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    paul says we are no longer under the law, and that NOW we are to be led by and serve of the spirit.

    instead of say ing this is a law and this is a law....................should we instead not be asking how does this comes against loving our neighbor as ourselves. what is the spirit of this? does this action also produce the fruit of the spirit?.

    if we say i personally know no homosexuals or homosexual couples but i know they cannot possibly love themselves or each other the way heterosexuals do...............................is that doing the three commandments of love?

    as i said before paul acts of the sin nature are obvious, in other words by their very nature are self explanatory. that is because obviously, they are void of the fruit of the spirit..........................love, joy peace, kindness etc

    how can there be a "god's word" that trumps the authority of christ?

    13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear..

    its is interesting ..........................but it appears that the reason that romans 1( an explanation of the covenant of christ) has not been fully embraced, is because to do so would one would to say................".if romans is true then homosexuality is not a sin."

    but because christendom chose the reverse, even after 2000 years, they are still living under the law.

    the book of the bible that led believers to commit transgressions, will be the same one which will end it.

  • Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I think Pilate was trying to walk that yellow line in the middle of the road too.

  • Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:08 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    I can't help but remember the populat saying, "God hates sin.....but loves the sinner".
    Yes we need to love and minister life to all those in our midst or who seek to come to God in
    confession repentance and truly willing to humble themselves under tha Mighty, Merciful,
    Gracious, Forgiving and restoring Hand of God.
    This does not mean that we simply ignore what God's Word says and attempt to be "politically
    correct" in order to maintain the status-quo. without controversy.
    Jesus said I didn't come to bring peace....but a sword.......
    Who ..... is on God's side?
    \The line is being drawn in the sands of time.
    Choos you this day whom you will serve!
    32 Every one therefore who shall confess me before men, him will I also confess before my Father who is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father who is in heaven. 34 Think not that I came to send peace on the earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law: 36 and a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that doth not take his cross and follow after me, is not worthy of me.
    Matt 10:32-38 (ASV)

  • Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:28 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    ifeelfine72

    i have asked him........................and my understanding is, that this is his answer.

    paul says the acts of the sin nature, which means by their very nature(fruit) they are self explanatory.

    j

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    my understanding is that there is only one" word of god" and it is the covenant of christ, the spirit of christ, and christ who is god, whom god the father, has put EVERYTHING UNDER HIS AUTHORITY.

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:45 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    ifeelfine72

    Re:Because no one takes the Bible literally - those that claim to are being hypocritical.

    By faith I accept what God's Word says. Do I understand everything? No, I don't. But I do go to Him in prayer and I ask Him what it means. Sometimes He answers me by giving me understanding. Sometimes it is through experience. Sometimetimes He gives me a revelation. Sometimes He doesn't answer and I have to wait, sometimes for a very real long time.

    Instead of rejecting the Word of God because it doesn't agree with your worldview why don't you ask God to give you understanding of His Word? Your rejection of the Word of God because of your humanistic, carnal mind doesn't understand it only weakens your faith in God, and presents a false Jesus to the lost world, and lead some lost people into everlasting damnation.

    You have a false idea of who God is. You are forever saying that God doesn't know what He is talking about and has His priorities all wrong. No, my dear friend, it is you who doesn't know what you are talking about and it is you who has his priorities wrong.

    Hear what the Word of God says.

    When Jesus was praying to the Father He said, "Santify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."(John 17:17)

    Jesus said to the disciples, "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your rememberance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (John 14:26)

    Jesus said to His disciples, "Howbeit when he, the spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." (John 16:13)

    The Apostle Paul said to the Church at Rome, "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Roman 12:2)

    We all have misunderstandings of God's Word. We all have worldy, carnal ideas that do not conform to the Word of God. We all need to let God replace our worldly thinking with His thinking. We all need to surrender our thoughts and beliefs to God. We all need to let God mold us into His image that reflects the truth of who God is and His glory. I am not just picking on you. What I say to you I say to myself and any one else who is a Christian or will become one.

    Jesus said that God's Word is truth and through that truth God sanctifies us. Jesus said that one of the functions of the Holy Ghost is to teach us what God's Word means. God wants to change our worldly thinking to align itself with the Word of God.

    Will you let Him change your worldly view to align itself with God's Word?

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:04 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    ifeelfine72

    Re:Oh yeah and if you have faith you will drink poison and handle snakes. I forgot about that one.

    If you understood the scripture you wouldn't say that.

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:03 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    ifeelfine72

    Get real buddy, you don't know what you are talking about.

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Because no one takes the Bible literally - those that claim to are being hypocritical.

  • 1man »
    Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:50 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Everything in the Bible should be taken literally and our interpretation never changes: You should treat your slaves well, if you are a slave be good to your master, any women out there don't say a word at church. You hypocrites!
    Why do you call people hypocrites?

  • 1man »
    Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:48 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    to feet when you return, in the spirit? issues in their own society....you make no sense...your saying that if one sins ...as long as he or she does it to the glory of God then all is well...if I have a good disposition and mean not harm in doing it? even if the issues of their society is what brought on judgment to their nation time and again? Paul speaking of these spiritual issues said they were examples to not live ungodly and so incur the wrath of God who by the way is the same yesterday today and forever, you will not escape reality by redefining terms or "spiritualizing" quotations....please pray about this

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Oh yeah and if you have faith you will drink poison and handle snakes. I forgot about that one.

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    gotta go............ be back later!

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    1man

    paul was speaking about issues of the spirit, by addressing what they witnessed in their own society.

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:37 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Citizen--

    The day your prediction comes true, is the day I'll recognize that Paul's prophecy in 2 Thessalonians is nigh. If your prediction comes true, then the mainline and liberal Christian "organizations" will have slipped into apostasy and any true Christian will flee from them. There's a reason the United Methodists, Episcopalians and ELCA are shedding members like rats off a sinking ship. There's also a reason that conservative denominations, even the Catholic Church, are receiving record numbers of new members (not converts, mind you, *new* members - people who are Christian fleeing liberal denominations).

    Your prediction is the end of orthodox Christianity. So I pray you are quite wrong.

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    Everything in the Bible should be taken literally and our interpretation never changes: You should treat your slaves well, if you are a slave be good to your master, any women out there don't say a word at church. You hypocrites!

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    enigma

    why all the accusation...................................do you have specific point to make?

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:31 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    Homosexuality has been considered a crime and an abomination for nearly all of human history in just about every human society and civilization. Contrary to the attempts to re-write history, even the Greeks and Romans frowned upon such behavior if not outright condemning it (though they did, during periods). There is a reason that most human beings have an innate, spontaneous, involuntary reaction of disgust and revulsion at the thought of homosexual acts, or to the sight of homosexual acts or behavior such as in public places. It is because it *IS* unnatural and abomination. It is the law of God "written" on our hearts.

    Anyone trying to justify homosexuality in light of scripture is simply naive and ignorant or willfully sinful, attempting to sow discord and mischief within God's church. Only one or the other. Homosexuality has been treated as an abomination by just about every civilization in all of human history. There's a reason for that. Think about it...

  • 1man »
    Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:20 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    and was Paul triing to get them to understand their society or be converted to Christianity? Thats where your wrong the chastisement you can't see is in the heart, Samson also touched a dead carcass (forbidden in the Law) Lied, Married out of Israel, and began losing touch in his relationship to God and setting it to the side for his pleasure. . . it eventually caused him to give in and reveal the source of his strength....that was stupid....he began to feel comfortable and invulnerable in the presence of wrongdoing, his heart aligned with evil and he received the wages of his sin.

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:19 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    feetxxxl

    Where do you come up with this stuff? If there was a Nobel Prize for obfuscation, I'd nominate you in a heartbeat. Roman culture has nothing to do with this. The Bible both Old and New Testaments clearly teach that homosexual behaviour is a sin. Your Bible quotes leave out some very important words and I'm sure that this is done puposefully either by you or the one you plagurized it from. Do yourself a big favor and read what it really says and stop spinning and twisting it to mean what you wish it meant. You can't make the Bible mean what you want it to mean. I tried it and it didn't work. No amount of fancy explaination will convince God that He really meant to say the homosexuality is OK if done "in the spirit" . That is what is know as blasfemy, not to mention heresy. By the way when you are speaking of the Holy Spirit. it is customary to capitalize it, as the Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. On second thought maybe it's best if you don't seeing how you are not really representing the Holy Spirit. You CAN NOT sin "in the Spirit"!

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    the only restrictions with opposite sex were family restrictions and sex with another man's property. samson was never chastised for sleeping with prostitues.

    paul wasnt speaking to hebrews but gentiles who had no knowledge of the restrictions of the old testament. in roman society males had all the power, women had none except what they received thru men.

    check out wikipedia" women's rights"

  • 1man »
    Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    paul's term in itim and icor "malebed" is to denote sexuality that was expressed thru the spirit of the sin nature. it was genderized, because only males were givern unlimited license.

    the sin nature, as was expressed in romans,. shame based lust(niv) can be expressed thru heterosexual relations as well.
    ...your point isn't very strong because neither male nor female were given unlimited license, Paul was a Hebrew not a greek, on the point of sinful nature and it being a shame based lust...if you are referring to before Christ then I would say that few of my sinful passions were worthy of condemnation because I wasn't ashamed of them....you're triing to combine Paul's writings with the culture that was around him just like you interpret the bible today.

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:27 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    you just made the point of my comment @2:12pm

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:28 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 1

    I can't believe what I'm reading. Morals change with time. People get to decide what is right and wrong. And even one person who seems to thinks that God didn't know what homosexualilty was when the Bible was written. This can only be willful ignorance.

    The Bible may not use the word homosexuality in the original language, but it specifically condemns, men lying with men and women with women. How much clearer can it be. The one thing that these comments did do was helped me to understand how an entire denomination can issue such a wishy washy statement. I don't condone it, but I understand it a little better.

    I will give the Lutherans credit for what they did do in standing up for marriage as the uniion of a man and a woman and coming out against "gay" marriage. Unfortunately, they didn't stop there. If they couldn't get the individual chruches to agree on condeming the homosexuality altogether, they should have said nothing else. Instead they chose to look foolish. This is sad. The Lutheran Church has a rich tradition and at its founding stood for truth in the face of falsehood.

    It befuddles me how anyone who has read the Bible can believe that homosexuality is not a sin. Maybe that's the answer, they haven't read the Bible.

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:57 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    and the answer will be a combination of .........................years of religious conditioning that a good christian means believing homosexuality is a sin.
    that though it is 2000 years since christ, christedom never fully embraced the covenant of christ as expressed in romans, but continued to live under the law.
    in spite of the number years of human existence, it has only been recently, a sexual revolution that has enabled the ability to actually discuss and embrace sexual issues(in the 50's, it was unacceptable to discuss sexual issues in mixed company) .
    there was a civil rights revolution that recognized that all people should be guaranteed equal rights, and that in essence all people were equal(in the fifties it was common acceptance that blacks, and other ethnics were less than whites).
    and lastly there has been a social revolution that today values each individual's opinions and preferences in life( allowed for gay sex practices to no longer be declared illegal.)

    surely at the turn of the century, the human mind in mass was incapable of embracing any of this.

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:03 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 7

    Well, let's try this again:

    I have a prediction for all of you: within 25 years, the majority of anti-gay amendments to state constitutions will be repealed, and same-sex marriage will be legal in a majority of states. Mainline, liberal, and non-Christian religious organizations will perform same-sex marriages without a problem. When the next generation learns the history of this issue, they will wonder what the big deal was, and why it took so long to recognize that discriminating on the basis of the gender of one's spouse is just as wrong as discriminating on the basis of the race of one's spouse.

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:53 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

    More wailing and gnashing of teeth over what to do about Gay Christians and whether to view human sexuality in anything but the most severe black & white terms. Personally, I admire the ELCA for at least acknowledging that there are indeed value judgements to be made in such matters. The people I see "punting" on this issue are those that simply say, "I don't make the rules, GOD does," while no doubt taking satisfaction in the fact that "God's rules" conveniently align with one's own personal fears and prejudices.

    But let's face it: To suggest that Straight Christians get to have romance, while Gay Christians must resign themselves to being lonely and miserable for the rest of their lives, is simply not going to make sense for a lot of people. How are we to believe that Straight people get to date, get engaged, get married and build lives together in the context of monogamy and commitment, that this is a GOOD thing ... yet for Gay people to do exactly the same is somehow a BAD thing?

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:12 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

    one has only to examine historically the persecutive spirit that enbraced the belief that homosexuality was a sin and examine the fruits of suffering and denegation of that spirit to know that this not of the spirit of christ.

    the reason that there was no greek for term for homosexuality, was because in greece and rome there was unlimited license for all forms of sexual expression. there was no need to seperate one expression from another.

    paul's term in itim and icor "malebed" is to denote sexuality that was expressed thru the spirit of the sin nature. it was genderized, because only males were givern unlimited license.

    the sin nature, as was expressed in romans,. shame based lust(niv) can be expressed thru heterosexual relations as well.

    paul is denoting that it was by being given over to shame based lust, they abandoned what was natural in the spirit, whose fruits were love, joy peace, for what what was not natural in the spirit whose fruit sexual immorality, impurity etc that was without peace, love, joy, kindness ......................the fruit of the spirit of christ..


    those who continue to argue about this orientation being a sin can only do so thru the law, but have never been able to do so thru scriptures about spirit, and scriptures about fruit of that spirit.

    this is even though christ said, you will reconize them by their fruit..

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    phileo

    at the time of christ, slavery was a legitimate mechanism for the distribution of wealth and power. but later under the covenant of christ it was determined to be evil.

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:31 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    I remember our new pastor coming to our Lutheran church when I was a teenager. Cool, hip, everyone loved him, then we began the meetings on reviewing church policy and docterns. We were hashing out how homosexuals should fit in back then, that was the late eighties. Many people went to the bible and pointed out scripture to defend why we shouldn't be condoning that lifestyle. I think most of those people left. An intern preached one morning about how we must prayfuly consider how to handle these "new issues". To this day I wish I would have stood up and shouted "New issues?! Paul addressed this topic 2,000 years ago!" But I didn't I just never went back again.
    Years later I was told our pastor had a gay brother, I wonder if that had anything to do with his own desirs to legitimize homosexuality.
    I worry about the people who are being told they are fine, and that God is just happy to have two more people who love each other and want to lead good christian lives, does anything nag at them in the back of their heads? Do they have a feeling deep-down something isn't right? I pray for mercy on them and I pray God wakes up these religious churches who are leading others astray.
    Then I wonder what about those hermaphrodites, how would God want them to live? Do they have "freedom of choice" considering their circumstances? I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I really have just been wondering.

  • Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:45 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 0

    "It acknowledged that Scripture passages can be abused and misunderstood through selective use as a moral guide, especially on the topic of sexuality.

    Scripture should be interpreted in light of human experience, culture and society's changing circumstances, the panel stated. "The Lutheran tradition, then, is open to human knowledge insofar as it encourages the good of the neighbor, protects against harm, and does not make false claims about God. In this light, human knowledge about sexuality, such as that found in medicine and the social and physical sciences, can teach us about healthy practice and provide new insights.""

    YOU FAIL!!!! Scripture is not relative to the times. Scripture is the inerrant word of God that does not change, and does not change it's meaning based on what society today deems true. Scripture was the same 1,700 years ago, as it is today, and as it will be until Christ returns.

    This is what happens when the secular world tells the church how to act, rather then the church taking a stand for what God actually says in His Word.

    Grow a moral compass and stand firm for your convictions, rather then being wishy washy. And the Lutheran church (as well as other mainline Protestant Denominations) wonder why people are leaving their denomination in droves. Lack of absolute truth and conviction in what God teaches.

    YOU FAIL!!!!

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