A new film on Jesus, told from an Islamic perspective, has drawn mixed reactions from the Christian community over its claim that Jesus did not die on the cross but was replaced by Judas Iscariot.
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(Photo: Cima Media International / Pool)In this image released by Cima Media International, Iranian actor Ahmad Soleimani Nia appears in a scene from the film 'The Messiah.'
“The Messiah” – written, produced and directed by Iranian filmmaker Nader Talebzadeh - was filmed in the Islamic Republic of Iran with Iranian actors to portray how Muslims understand the life of Jesus based on the teachings of the Qur’an and the Gospel of Barnabas – a book not included in the Christian Bible and in which the Prophet Mohammed appears.
The movie features two endings – the Muslim and Christian version of Jesus and the cross – and has won an award at Rome’s Religion Today Film Festival for generating interfaith dialogue.
Dr. Emir Caner, dean of the College at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and a former devout Muslim, recommends Christians to view both versions of the crucifixion account and ask themselves several questions:
• When was Jesus replaced, according to the Qur’an?
• Why did the disciples not recognize that the man they were following was replaced before the cross
• Why did the mother of Christ not recognize that her son was not present on the Cross
• What was the alleged purpose of Allah in deceiving the crowd, including the disciples and Mary, into thinking Christ was being crucified
Caner, who is also a professor of history, said he believes that in the end the film should be welcomed.
“Perhaps Muslims and Christians will recognize that the Qur’an only offers sparse speculation into one of the most noted events in history while the Bible gives meticulous detail into the historic events of the day,” Caner wrote to The Christian Post in an email Thursday. “It is a new day when the public is once again willing to discuss religious issues with eternal significance.”
For most of “The Messiah,” Jesus is depicted similarly to versions made in the West – light complexion, brown hair and performing miracles, according to Variety magazine. But where the Muslim version diverges is at the end where the disciple Judas Iscariot miraculously transforms into the likeness of Jesus and is crucified in his place.
“He (Jesus) is not the son of God and was never the son of God. He is a prophet and he was not crucified, that somebody was crucified in his stead,” Talebzadeh claimed, according to CNN.
The director said his goal in making the film was to show both Muslims and Christians their common and different beliefs in Jesus and to generate conversation between the two groups who in recent years have been pitted against each other.
“When you show this information (Christian view of Jesus) to the common people, they don't know. Ninety percent of the Muslims in Iran don’t know about this,” Talebzadeh said.
Dr. Gary R. Habermas, distinguished research professor and chair of the department of Philosophy and Theology at Liberty University, said he has not seen the film but commented that Islam is “very respectful” of Jesus. He noted that the Qur'an has almost 100 verses on Jesus.
“The bad news is he is not the son of God, he didn’t die on the cross and because he didn’t die, he didn’t rise from the dead,” Habermas said to The Christian Post. “The good news is he is a great prophet, he is sinless, he is virgin born and he did miracles.” Continue >>
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Surat. 1:7
“The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians)”
Ummmmm…. Let’s break it down.
Yes, the Lords anger will be kindled when any follower (Jew or Christian) goes after other gods or goes astray. But the Holy bible also states that if they will call out His name in the day of their distress that He will forgive and deliver them. The Lord will not break his promise that he has chosen Israel as his chosen people.
With that said this next statement has logic to it.
Now if you think about it (follow me here) the devil would make the statement “…those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians)” because in Revelation 12:1-6 the beast is warring against the Jews and her offspring (gentiles turned Christen) because they follow the true Living God Almighty.
I do have a question for any Muslim. Please answer this question.
Muslims hates the Jews because of what the Quran says, correct?
Jesus is a Jews. He was born to a Jewish mother who was married to a Jewish man and grew up reading the Jewish Torah. (Remember, Muslim came about 800 years after the death of Jesus) .
So how can Muslim respect any Jew when you hate them all?
Michael_ca,
Sadly, If the Islamists truly respected Jesus they would not have replaced him with a murderer thief,rapist paedophile...and what not.
Those who do not respect Jesus ultimately replace Jesus. They move Him aside from the center of their faith and replace Him and His Word with their own religion and dogma.
When the Pharisees cried for Jesus to be crucified, they chose instead another to be freed in the place of Jesus. That was Barabbas. It is noted that Barabbas was a murderer.
How can one reconcile Jesus with mohammed? and call themselves honest?
What can the muslims possibly say against Jesus? or for that matter, anyone else who would care to criticize Jesus? Their mouths are shut by the very holy life that Jesus lived, not because of the inherent kindness of muslims, but because they have absolutely nothing to indict Jesus with...(Jesus, the Prince of Peace)
Yet, they have rebelled against Jesus, believed mohammed...and go round the world subverting and lying that mohammed was a man of peace...and that islam is a religion of peace, when they both clearly are not.
Muslims cannot defend mohammeds actions of thievery, rape, murder, and paedophilia...so they sanctify what mohammed did and threaten those who will call mohammed what he was: a sinner in need of repentance. They protest that they are not criticizing Jesus, so no one should criticise mohammed...but why should we not criticise a religion founded on murder and thievery, slavery and rape...
only a coldblooded person would call for others to respect this heinous injustice...
We criticise the popes, stalin, ghenghis khan, Mao, Hitler...Pol Pot...Jesus (the movie noted here)why should we leave mohammed out? because ? because ?
here is another question x86,
during tawaf (circling the black stone seven times) if you feel like it, can you take a piss on the black stone? or do you piss on the kaaba afterwards?
how do you take a piss? sideways with one feet held high?
steiner,
Who you are kidding man? Now you are even attacking me! (Proving my point, thank you).
I find following post from x86 to be kind and thoughtful. Really, just think about it.
You would not find even a single Muslim who would disrespect Jesus (peach be upon him) or Mary (peach be upon her). Not a single one. Don’t you find it rather odd, from a religion that (in your opinion) founded by a bad person? Just think about it.
Michael_ca
You read my posts...and they did not please you...you felt offended? but that is not enough, is it?
That you are without ideas of your own...without a shred of explanation for your accusations...that does not bother you?
Matthew 15:12...
Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?
But Jesus answered and said, -Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be rooted up. Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.-
You sir, are free to keep your eyes closed, and free, as Jesus points out, to be led by blind guides of your choosing.
Hey steiner,
It seems like to me, you are full hate. I just read your posts and others, you are pathetic man! If Jesus came for peace, you definetely have missed it!
Sura 9:111] gOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of gOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is his truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph. (NO! THIS IS SATANS GREAT LIE!)
x86?
Is this what Jesus commanded his desciples to do? Perhaps you should begin to read what Jesus actually said...get a new testament and read up on the real Jesus, and stop trying to obfuscate by telling people to respect this homicidal call to peace....this is not peace...this is a call to kill and be killed...a call for the suicide of mankind...
Jesus said: I have come to save that which was lost...not to kill...
and in the name of Jesus I pray that He will open your eyes to the meaning of peace...convincing you that calls for the destruction of what God has come to save... is not peace...and is not of Jesus...but of satan, who from the beginning has meant to destroy mankind...through mass homicide and suicide...
_____________________________________________________________________
1086
All muslims say that they love and respect Jesus, but Jesus says " If you love me, you will obey my commandments." (John 14:15, 21, 23, 24)
Which of Jesus' comandaments/teachings do Muslims obey ? about anger, adultery, divorce, revenge, enemies, prayer, fasting... etc ? (matthew 5 and 6)
And yet with all the so called peace and respect that you claim that muslims give Jesus...Christians are persecuted in every muslim country...Those that convert to Christianity are threatened with death, and their churches and towns forced to close and suffer abuse.
When the Apostle Paul came to know Jesus...he stopped killing, he stopped persecuting...
It is a blatant and evil lie to claim that islam respects Jesus...please stop lying, and begin to speak the truth regarding Islams continued systematic violence and persecution against Christians.
Islam is a revealed religion and the way it was revealed provides the key to understanding wether or not true Muslims can coexist peacefully with others. The following information can be easily accessed in the West with little effort and research:
When Mohammed was contacted by the spirit (Jibrail) in the cave he was convinced he had been contacted by a harmful (evil) spirit and returned very distressed to his wife Khadijah, who thought otherwise, and to reassure Mohammed, she took him to her cousin Waraqa ibn Naufal, who, allegedly, was "a very old man who knew the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians" and on this old man's OPINION , the spirit who had contacted Mohammed was declared as coming from God and that Mohammed was to become the Prophet of his people! (pages 10 and 11 of the introduction to the English translation of the Holy Quran by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall).
If this old man really knew the Christian Scriptures he would have told Mohammed that he had been contacted by an evil spirit (as Mohammed had correctly thought when the spirit had first appeared to him) on the basis of the biblical teaching found in the New Testament in the letter to the Galatians 1:8 where it is stated ..."if an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached (Jesus' gospel) let him be eternally condemned"...
To be brief... the Koran was revealed by a false spirit (a demon) as the translator Marmaduke Pickthall so unwittingly gives testimony to in his introduction of the Holy Quran page 11, 3rd paragraph: "the words which came to him (Mohammed) when in a state of trance are held sacred by the Muslims and are never confounded with those which he uttered when no physical change was apparent in him. The former are the Sacred Book (the Koran); the latter the Hadith or Sunnah...”
with that statement Pickthall is confirming that the Koran was recited by Mohammed while in a state of trance or in other words under demonic possession.
In the New Testament in the letter to the Ephesians 4:30 ..." God's Holy Spirit... gets rid of all bitterness, passion, anger... hateful feelings of any sort... instead makes you kind and tender hearted... forgiving one another... as God has forgiven you through Christ." This Spirit is not the same spirit that leads practicing Muslims to kill in the name of Allah. Any Christian who kills in the name of God betrays Jesus and His teachings (read Matthew 26:51-53) and is no longer a Christian. Any Muslim who refuses to kill in defense of Allah and his prophet is not a Muslim (sura 9:29 etc).
See here: http://www.islam.us/quran_arben.php
Steiner, where did you find anything that says Mohammed is better the “Jesus”? I didn’t see anything in Quran.
Instead of reading articles/books about Quran, why don’t you read the Quran (well, its interpretation in English) itself? I assume that you don’t believe it to be divine; you think it is written by Mohammed. Let it be so. You have read many books written by human before. Didn’t you? Give it a try. Then you can disbelieve it, but at least knowingly disbelieve it. You won’t be fooled by other.
Muslim respect Jesus (peach be upon him) just as much they would respect any other messengers of God (including Mohammed puh).
If I can respect to the key religious figure of your religion, why can’t you show the same to the key religious figure of my religion? Why it would be so hard? You don’t have to agree on anything from that religion. If for nothing else, you can show respect because he is the founder of one of the significant religion of today’s world.
You would not find even a single Muslim who would disrespect Jesus (peach be upon him) or Mary (peach be upon her). Not a single one. Don’t you find it rather odd, from a religion that (in your opinion) founded by a bad person? Just think about it.
Genesis satan is referred to as a serpent. In the New Testament, Jesus uses the appelation of snakes and vipers. when referring to some..
In the temptation of Adam and Eve, satan uses scripture with his own twist to bring about the fall of Adam and Eve. In the New Testament, the same approach is used with Jesus, but it fails as Jesus points to the whole of Scripture...It is also written...
Serpents have unusual tongues...forked tongues...The implications is that a forked tongue speaks a bit from both sides of the spectrum...it uses the truth and adds or subtracts to it in order to obfuscate...
Consider now that Christ is our Rock. HE is the living Rock upon whom we can build our lives and remain free from the onslaught of sin and temptation....
In Islam the Kaaba is the Rock...it is the temple of allah...here many surround it and worship what essentially is an idol.
Yet, the Gospel notes that Christ is the living Rock upon whom we must build our lives and cast our hope....
Muslims note that the Koran is living and eternal , it was not created by allah...yet it is a god just as is allah... and yet it is a book...a living book that is in heaven...
In Christianity the Word of God is Christ.The Word (Christ)came among us and became incarnate...The Word lived among us and established a clear and examplary way for us to follow...Christ the Living Word...eternal, uncreated and in triunity.
In the Koran, sharia is the path, or river that must be taken to receive eternal life...
In Christianity, Jesus is the Way, He is the living water from which those who drink have eternal life...(John 4)
Islam, in the end, tries to offer a sprinkling of Christ, in order to attract Christians to its god, and yet takes away the only means to salvation...the cross of Christ...
Beware of the serpent, Christian...For without the Cross of Christ, there is no Gospel...There is no salvation..
P 2 of 2
When the apostle Paul accepted Jesus, the apostle Paul stopped killing.
Why did Mohammed kill, steal, rape and pillage? and how is mohammed(for muslims) in the light of Jesus, serve a better religious example than Jesus who lived a truly examplary life?
Jesus says: For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgement to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him (John5:22)….
How can mohammed claim to know God, when mohammed obviously did not know or for that matter did not honor Jesus (if muslims claim that he knew Him).
John 8 :39-47 - They answered and said to Him, Abraham is our father.- Jesus said to them, - if you were Abrahams children, you would do the works of Abraham…because you are not able to listen to My word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him…
And what were the works of Abraham? and the works of Jesus?
Did not Abraham intercede for the lives of the people in Gomorrah and Sodom? And in the case of Jesus, is he not our Intercessor?
Did Jesus kill, or steal or rape, or command that sinners ought to be killed? In fact, to the Pharisees, Jesus made obviously clear that they were religious hypocrites for believing themselves to be without or with less sin than the more honest populace.
So, why choose mohammed? who killed and raped in the name of religion and stood and stands against everything, and I mean everything ...everything Jesus preached....why ?
Why not love Ghenghis Khan, or Hitler,Stalin, Pol Pot(and many others)for that matter…why not?
One reason comes to mind: pride in being able to dominate others…that is sharia, and that was mohammeds way of peace and respect (domination and elimination of your enemies)….
P1 of 2 The New York Times has an article on Wilders.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/22/world/europe/22wilders.html
Wilders is quoted as saying that mohammed should not be respected as a religious figure but branded a war criminal like Hitler….
In the article a fellow by the name of Mohamed Rabbae, (chairman of the Dutch Moroccan Council) is apparently exasperated by Wilders’s stance on mohammed. In short Rabbae points out that mohammed lived in the 6th century…
This statement seems to imply that the murders committed by mohammed. in the 6th century should not be a reflection on mohammed but on the prevalent culture of the time that mohammed lived in.
The New York Times apparently does not feel obliged to question this statement; nevertheless it casts Wilders as the antagonist and the opportunistic politician who is simply exploiting an issue for his political ends.
Yet, the questions remain. Why is mohammed considered a hero today by many of the islamic persuasion?
Let us deepen our perspective regarding mohammed and the relativism that he is allowed to benefit from. Is he really innocent because he did not know better? Is that the reasoning?
Yet, mohammed is paraded around today as knowing Jesus, and many muslims today claim that they respect Jesus better than Christians.
Well then, what makes muslims devote themselves to mohammeds teaching rather than those of Jesus, who by the way lived before mohammed?
In fact, why did mohammed not follow anything that Jesus commanded his disciples to do?
We all must respect each others religion either Christian or Muslim..but i would say that Jesus will come back on the Last day is it right???where in the Sorah it is written??
Dear X86,
sorry about my previous post. It was confusing. Let me try to clarify.
There are 6 questions that I am asking.
1. On what basis can allah forgive your sin?
For example, suppose one is found to be a thief and is sentenced by a judge to go to jail for 10years..If a stranger happens to pass by and feeling sorry for him tells the judge that the thief is pardoned and asks that the thief be released immediately..
2. Would it be ok to release him because the stranger simply said so?
3. Is the Koran allahs word?
4. Is allahs word living?
5. Was it created by allah, or did it always exist eternally?
6. Does allahs word have its own power?
X86,
On what basis can allah forgive your sin?
For example, suppose one is found to be a thief. Suppose that a stranger comes over and says...this man is pardoned...release him.. Would it be ok to release him because the stranger simply said to release him?
Ia the Koran allahs word? Is allahs word living scriot? Was it created by allah, or did it always exist eternally? Is allahs word have its own power?
Dear steiner,
Your question: have you committed wrong ever? and how do you know that allah has forgiven you, or not forgiven you?
My answer: Yes, I have committed many wrong. I ask God's forgiveness. It does not necessarily means he have forgiven all of my seen. In the judgement day, He will bring me back to life and I will face judgement. Based on my good or bad works I will be handed a prize (paradise) or punishment (my jail time in hell). God may forgive all my sin, or some of my sin or none of my sin. He is the all mighty. He will do as he please. But Quran tell us that (also see old testiment), God is the most Merciful and the most forgiving. So if we follow His command, he may forgive some of our sin.
Quran teaches us that, everyone is up for judgement in the judgement day. No one will get a free pass. Also, everyone will be judged based on his action and only his action. No one will be punished because of other one's action. No one will be forgiven because of other one's action. Everyone is of their own in the day of judgement. No one else to blame.
steiner,
your question: Tell me, could Allah have contradicted the Koran before it was written ?
I don't understand your question. Where do you see any contradiction?
Well said Prophet! I don't think there could be a better thought out explaination!
x86,
1: Jesus preached love, grace,purity, sinlessness, holiness, and a relationship with God
2: "Christian" is a title given to those who followed the teachings of Christ. It was first used in Antioch. True, there were no "Christians" in Jesus' times. Jesus clarified the meaning of the Old Testament. To say that He taught what Moses did would almost be misleading. If you actually read the Gospels, you would see that the religious people of the day continually accused Him of breaking Moses' law. Working on the sabbath, not washing hands before dinner, Jesus pardoned the woman caught in adultery (according to the law of Moses she was to be stoned to death), He shot down the Law of capital punishment, and many more. He taught grace and forgiveness.
3:John 8:57-58, the Pharisees are chatting with Jesus...
"Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
Notice Jesus said "I am" instead of "I was". Because He was using the title that God gave Moses at the burnng bush.
4: Jesus went to the synagogue (their version of the church). He even taught in their synagogue.
5: Whether you celebrate Christmas and Easter or not had nothing to do with pleasing God. He did not institute those traditiions. I celebrate them of my own free will in honor of Him. To glorify Him. If I choose not to, God will not care any less. He is more concerned with how you glorify Him in your daily life. Many "Christians" devoutly observe those two holidays. But spend the rest of the year living a willfully sinful life. Their twice-a-year "worship" means nothing to Him, because their hearts are turned from Him.
7: Amen.
here is another question x86,
during tawaf (circling the black stone seven times) if you feel like it, can you take a piss on the black stone? or do you piss on the kaaba afterwards?
how do you take a piss? sideways with one feet held high?
Another question x86. have you committed wrong ever? and how do you know that allah has forgiven you, or not forgiven you? and please answer my other questions regarding the Koran..
You havent answered my question x86...? Tell me, could Allah have contradicted the Koran before it was written ?
1. what was Jesus teached mankind?
2. There was nothing called christianity in lifetime of Jesus, he was a jews preaching the same thing as Moses did.
3. How do you know that Jesus claimed that he was the God?
4. How do you know that going to church will please God? Jesus never went to a Church. There was no Church in the lifetime of Jesus.
5. How do you know chelibrating christmas or easter will please God? Did Jesus told that?
6. You just assumed that this will please God? Just like Peganism.
7. Please follow true words of Jesus.
X86 -
Can allah contradict the Koran if he wishes it, or whenever he wishes to?
x86, here is something more interesting:
Allahumma rabba hazihi ad-da'wah at-tammah wa as-salati al-qa;imah, ati Muhammadan al-wasilah wa al-fadhilah wab'athhu maqaman mahmudan allzi wa'adtah (Sahih Bukhari)
MUHAMMAD IS IN HELL
Here is another interesting movie: THE GOD who was not there http://www.thegodmovie.com/
I haven't seen it yet. But the argument sounds familiar.
This will make both Christianity and Islam in jeopardy. (Finally we have something in common and a common interest to defend.)
"SON of God means that Jesus is made of the same material as God"??
So basically you are saying that there is someone else who is God, Jesus is made of the same material as Him. So Jesus is (also a) God?
X86
The Hindu notion that all their gods are facets of the same one God is relatively new and it still not a unified view of God. It is more like a view of allah taking on different roles. They have changed to this view as they have been given time to reflect on Christianity, and yet they are not being honest....
But let me address another elementary notion that you have as a muslim. This notion has to do with the concept of sonship. You are very confused regarding thiis concept.
Jesus makes Himself known both as son of God and son of man....what is the meaning of this?
Well, the real question is what is the meaning of son.
Let us think for a bit in human terms. If someone says that they are your son...what are they really saying? Are they saying that you are stronger than they are?
One day in your old age, you will hear the same fellow call upon you as dad...does that mean that you are the stronger still?
Not at all. What it means is that there is a recognition that he is made of the genetic material that you are made of. That, hopefully if and when a DNA test is done, it will prove that your genetic material is part of your sons...Your son is made of the same stuff as you are...Your son also is your son because he walks in the steps you have walked in. He loves what you love and holds what you deem precious just as dear...
In short,
SON of man means that in every human way Jesus is human. He is made of the stuff that makes us human.
And
SON of God means that Jesus is made of the same material as God and therefore Jesus is fully God.
Hence, Jesus Son of Man and Son of God....Jesus fully man and fully God...
If you still believe that Jesus is both "the God and God's son", call him God. STOP calling him God's son. Just STOP it, it make no sense CALLING him the son (even if he is) when he is the God. He is the God, calling him God.
He is also a human, he is also a messenger, he is also a man, he is also someone's friend. Would you call him a man? Messenger? Human? Friend?
What is his most impotent identity? That he is son? Or that he is the God? "God", right?
Then call him God, STOP calling him anything less then that.
I heard people saying, God is so and so that He send his own "son" to earth. That is totally stupid man. He is the God himself, call him that. (even if technically, as you believe, he is also the son).
If someone is a president and a citizen at the same time, we call him president right?
Will it make you uncomfortable to call Jesus the God? (instead of Jesus, son of God?) If it is, then you are half way there. Keep searching, I am sure that God will show you the light and the true path. God is the most powerful. God is the creator of everything. God is one and only. God have no son, God have to idol.
So you believe that "Father and son" is God. Two-in-one.
Your one God is not really one, what you meant is "unity". Of course gods may have unity. They may be a united god front. I am not arguing that. That is your belief. (note that all the greek gods have unity, so are all the Hindu gods)
What I am arguing is that this would be a direct violation of 1st commandment, which say "ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'
Look, it does not said "Me and my son". You can believe anything you like and of course every religion is different. But don't claim that you are following 10 commandments.
If you say "God's son" and you you have a cross : you are violating first and second commandment.
what ever "logic" you are giving, Hinduism are giving me same logic.
1. Even if Hinduism have so many gods, my Hindu friend claimed that they are just diffrent forms of same god. hah?
2. Even if they create idols of all the gods, he said, they are actually worshiping god through the idols. (not the idol itself)
From whrere I am standing, no difference what you are saying and what my hindu friend said. He is a pretty good christian to me, and you are a pretty good Hindu. Don't you find it odd? After all the teaching of Abraham, John, Aaron, Moses? All of a sudden, Jesus would come and take us back to Peganism? No way.
Instead, it it is logical to believe that Jesus and Mohammed also teaches us the same ture Monotheism : God is one and only, no son for god, no symbol for god.
May God show you the true path.
LOL You're not going to get it so I'll stop tryin got explain. I think you need to stop using the deffinitions provided by this world to explain something that has been before those deffinitions were even thought of. God has always, is always, & will always be. And during that time he can do whatever he wants, whether you understand it or not. Oh and...
Q: "Is Jesus God himself or God's son?"
A: Both
Why don't you understand, God and God's son are two diffrent entity!
If Jesus is the God, STOP calling him God's son. One can not be his own son. period!
Is Jesus God himself or God's son?
x86 look at the scripture I posted. Jesus was God, he is Lord. It does not say He was a god or a lord. Therefore making Him one and the same. He is God's son because he was birthed of a virgin worldly mother making him have no other father but God. Like I said it's not an easy thing to wrap your head around and I don't think anyone can explain it better than we have already.
"God and His Son, Jesus"?? Seems like TWO gods to me.
What's wrong with accepting Hindu god Shiva or godess Kali, Durga and all the others? Don't you like them?
Sorry forgot to finish a sentence.
...and once you do it'll all make sense to you.
I'm gonna chime in here for just a sec. X86, You ask why Jesus said, ""my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" My friend, who is agnostic, asked me this question once and I had no answer for him but God showed me in my study of the Word one night:
Philippians 2:6-11
Though he was God,
he did not think of equality with God
as something to cling to.
Instead, he gave up his divine privileges;
he took the humble position of a slave
and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,
he humbled himself in obedience to God
and died a criminal’s death on a cross.
Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor
and gave him the name above all other names,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
The trinity isn't supposed to make sense. You cannot take God and put Him in a nice little box like everything else in this world. God, Jesus, & the Holy Spirit is probably one of the most confusing or simple things to understand. Trying to look at it from a worldly view only makes it harder to comprehend. It does take a bit of faith to get and once you do.
Also one more thing, we don't worship a cross. We worship God. Roman Catholics, which their doctrine is debatable itself, would be the closest to that. Christians, however, love God and spread His word. If they use the cross as a symbol so be it, but they in no way worship the cross itself.
Its amazing how far from the truth they really are when it comes to Jesus. Looks and smells like a tit for tat in respone to the movie the Passion for Christ (which was a great movie and well done). Now if someone made a movie about a person whose name begins with the letter M and the marriage of a 8 year old girl they would get mad. I would agree with making that kind of movie but it is the truth. He had many wives and one as young as 8 years old. Lets leave it at that and pray for their salvation.
The 'god' protrayed in the movie is deceitful and cunning to have done what he did. Fortunately for us Christians we know that God and His Son, Jesus, are nothing like what is portrayed in the movie.
this film is an outrage. the christian post should be much more critical of the film.
Hey steiner,
Excellent points. Another problem with the muslim religion is a supposedly one man revelation. Jesus fulfilled prophesies in His life that were given by those that God chose to prophesy.If the muslim and Christian religion are supposedly so close, how come there is nothing in the Quran that fulfills the Bible? Thanks for your post.
Since we have touched on allah, let us also scrutinize its prophet mohammed...
Today, mohammed is paraded around as knowing Jesus, and many muslims today claim that they respect Jesus better than Christians.
Well then, what makes muslims devote themselves to mohammeds teaching rather than those of Jesus, who by the way lived before mohammed?
In fact, why did mohammed not follow anything that Jesus commanded his disciples to do?
When the apostle Paul accepted Jesus, the apostle Paul stopped killing.
Why did Mohammed kill, steal, rape and pillage? and how is mohammed(for muslims) in the light of Jesus, serve a better religious example than Jesus who lived a truly examplary life?
Jesus says: For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgement to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him (John5:22)….
How can mohammed claim to know God, when mohammed obviously did not know or for that matter did not honor Jesus (if muslims claim that he knew Him).
John 8 :39-47 - They answered and said to Him, Abraham is our father.- Jesus said to them, - if you were Abrahams children, you would do the works of Abraham…because you are not able to listen to My word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him…
And what were the works of Abraham? and the works of Jesus?
Did not Abraham intercede for the lives of the people in Gomorrah and Sodom? And in the case of Jesus, is he not our Intercessor?
Did Jesus kill, or steal or rape, or command that sinners ought to be killed? In fact, to the Pharisees, Jesus made obviously clear that they were religious hypocrites for believing themselves to be without or with less sin than the more honest populace.
So, why choose mohammed? who killed and raped in the name of religion and stood and stands against everything Jesus preached?
Why love Ghenghis Khan, or why love Hitler,Stalin, Pol Pot(and many others)for that matter…why?
One reason comes to mind: pride in being able to dominate others…that is sharia, and that was mohammeds way of peace (domination and elimination of your enemies)….
CHAG PASCHA SHAMEACH.
Happy Easter everybody.
steiner,
I love that scripture you quoted from John 8, where Jesus, not so subtly, refers to Himself as the I AM. That must have really ruffled the feathers of the religious people there. But that just proves that He claimed to be God. And the Bible, numerous times, speaks of Jesus as God.
Your understanding of oneness is elementary.
Steel is a combination of different metals melded together as one....
A nation is one...and each of its citizens is a national of that nation. Each having (in western culture) equal rights before the law...
Oneness has to do with more than the number one. 1
In fact, our mathematics, our sciences, our arts are motivated by that deeper sense that there is a unity among them...A coming together.
Certainly you would rather drink pure water, rather than dirty water...and yet, as pure as water can be, it is still made of 2 Hydrogens and 1 Oxygen...united by common bonds.
Salt is made of 2 posionous chemicals: chloring and sodium...yet bonded together they are ediblle and serve our daily diet...unity..
You see my dear fellow, our God makes Himself known to us as we look to Him, and study His creation and His Word.
Surely, you have a father and a mother, dont you? You must have been brought up and lived as a family. Have you heard of the unity in a family?
In fact we talk of humanity as a descriptor of ourselves. A man is human; a woman is human, Their coming together is described in scripture as becoming ONE...
why should God not use this same descriptor? The Father is God, The Son is God, and The Holy Spirit is God, and in their great and mysterious union they are God as ONE.
The Hebrews called Jesus a blasphemer for making himself out to be God. Today, Muslims are in fact repeating the same error. They call Christians blasphemers because Christians believe Jesus to be God.
In John 8.54, Jesus speaks to the Hebrews as follows:
- Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.-
The Hebrews respond: - You are not 50 years old, and have You seen Abraham?-
Jesus response - Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.-
Then they took up stones to throw at Him;...
John 9:35 - Jesus asks the man who had been cured of his blindness: - Do you believe in the Son of God?- He answered and said, - Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?...And Jesus said to him, - you have .-both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.
Then he said, - Lord, I believe, and he worshipped HIm.-
Why did Jesus allow this man to worship him if He were not God?
I would debate x86 on the fact that Jesus is God, but that would require him to have some knowledge of the Bible, which he doesn't.
Sufficeth to say, Jesus is God incarnate, and not just another prophet. If x wants to debate that, then let him read the New Testament first. Then we can discuss it.
For Christians, Muslims are funny people. They said Muhammad is their prophet and is a perfect human being. But why oh why does every Muslim after their prayer (salat) always plead to their God Allah to give Muhammad the murdering paedophile the high place in his grave, a position that was promised to Muhammad during his lifetime.
Please check out this verse from Sahih Bukhari, and I guarantee you the translation is perfect
Allahumma rabba hazihi ad-da'wah at-tammah wa as-salati al-qa;imah, ati Muhammadan al-wasilah wa al-fadhilah wab'athhu maqaman mahmudan allzi wa'adtah (Sahih Bukhari)
Why would anybody want to convert to Islamism when Muhammad himself cannot get to this good position in his grave? Certainly very funny.
Muhammad himself is just another dead people and is going to answer to God about his actions
From where I am looking at, Abraham, Moses & Mohamed said about worshiping God, not idol or anything else. They all have said same things. In fact, Judaism & Islam have exactly same theological understanding of God. They have many other things common in practicing religion.
But Christianity, especially trinity, does not fit in. Cross is a symbol, is an idol for god! They worship Jesus instead of God.
On the other hand, Jesus is the most praised prophet/messenger of God according to Quran (Islam's holly book). Quran talked about Jesus in 100 verses. Quran made believing Jesus and gospel (book that God reveal to jesus) a precondition of being a Muslim. (i.e. you are not a Muslim if you disbelieve Jesus or Gospel).
Only explanation is that, Jesus NEVER claimed himself to be a God or divine. Instead he teaches the same message form God what Abraham, Noah, Solomon, John the Baptist, ..... Moses, and Mohammed had teaches. Worship God, not anyone/anything else. Somehow down the road, the people lost the teaching of Jesus, and start to worship him instead.
Just goes to show why Islam can only survive in areas where there is no freedom of speech and the press. Those clips on utube are so bogus. I know many people are fed this rubbish in Arab countries and I suppose if you don't have access to real historical documents and scholarly information, what else do you know? I mean the fact that most Arabs still believe Israel was formed in 1948....and that they have no right to the land.....? Well who did the Roman Empire rule and who's temple did they burn down in 70 A.D.? Who were the slaves in Egypt, desperately trying to get back to their homeland? Even the pharoahs (non Jew/non Christian) history tell these stories...? I don't know how to even have a discussion with people who blatantly ignore the facts.
And, X...I'm not a dude. The name is Deborah, named after a prophet/judge from the old testament.
Oops, I meant to say..."there is no Christianity WITHOUT Judaism."
Why bother arguing over Mohammed (peach be upon him), Jesus (peach be upon him), Moses (peach be upon him)? They ALL were mere human, who were messenger of God. It seems like some of you are confused about God Himself.
“Do not have any other gods before me”
“You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.”
This means, there is only one God, the most powerful, the almighty.
No symbol for God, yeah, no cross.
Worship God, only God (not his messengers).
Opps, wrong link: Try this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tj0bitIiZY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt7t37lmEIc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rdk9G4mKBQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nedoaPOLw-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYQT87Hz_yk
Dear debs6196,
You seem like a reasonable dude. So, let me help you. Since you mentioned "study", and said something about "Christianity with Judaism", why not you study this? You would be amused! Trust me.
History of Judaism & Talmud PART 1 TO 6
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TWSIL2rewcM&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=m6CfuQ9Ta_o&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bHifIcJuS5s&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qj0x0xIpy70&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GntJ5c1hb-M&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sOrIflG8jb0&feature=related
Where the intellectual divide happens for me about Islam is this.....As a person born into Christianity, I accepted it. As an adult, I had to study my faith on my own to make sure it really made sense to me. Doing so, I discovered that I better study Judaism and make sure that Christianity didn't negate anything. There is no Christianity with Judaism. It's as simple as that! The one completes the other. Now 600 years after Jesus, some dude in the desert (that has no history with either Judaism or Christianity) runs into Jews and Christians during his travels. Of course, they both sound appealing and enviable. One all-powerful God, the best moral code out there, salvation...Suddenly Mohammed gets a revelation from the Judeo-Christian Angel, Gabriel? Now if he did, why would are there so many major contradiction in what we see in the life of Mohammed - multiple wives, changing the role of Jesus, no more mention of the importance/value of women/female prophets...? There's a huge list, but just the fact that he had multiple wives along should be a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE obvious sign that this new religion has nothing to do with the faith of Abraham and his descendants.
[Surah 3:45; Surah 4:171] . Jesus, Word of God, and Jesus, the Spirit of God....
This is from the Quran itself! Now imagine calling the Spirit of God to be less than God? If you are a muslim please explain these verses and reflect before you do...since it seems to me that the author of this movie did some reflecting of his own and not to be caught out changed the movies title from Jesus the Spirit of God to Jesus the Messiah. But the argument still stands and it makes him more guilty of covering up...how can the Spirit of God be l aess than God? Is not God Spirit? and how can the Living WORD of God be less than God?
Is the Living Word of God not eternal...Could God have ever not had His Word?
There is an interesting twist to all of this. It seems to me that the previous name for this move, was: Jesus, the spirit of God....Can anyone please confirm this ?
To X86,......no attack involved here,....but at least respond to some of these blogs so I can get educated if nothing else,..but I believe personally that if it were not for the H--ly Scriptures, the Qur`en would`nt be able to survive and not the other way around,....a matter of "picking and choosing" whats right and whats wrong?....Either one believes all or believes nothing, I think the H--y Bible has been transfigured into how many different languages,..over the course of 5,000 years being very contraversial,....and still withstood every test,.....tell me I`m wrong...
To the post-modernistic, new-age sect of people, truth is relative. Being such, it cannot be trusted. How can one believe in a system that says "that can be true.....but so can this.....and that too....oh...and this." What a pathetic way to live. With no absolutes. And, of course, no one to be accountable to. The is the cornerstone of post-modernism. Being accountable to no one. Being responsible to no one. But yet, when something goes wrong, they are quick to blame someone else....usually the God "they don't believe in".
Scripture states without a doubt that the Cross is a stumbling block to many, and apparently Islam is no different. THEY DON'T HAVE A CLUE!!! At least those who believe that Judas took Christ's place. Utter nonsense!!! And these are the people that this country is bending backwards for and granting special privileges?? God forbid that we get our teaching from total pagans!!!
REPENT, FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!!!
x86,
Regarding your post on Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:14 pm:
Peachy argument my friend. Too bad it has absolutely no foundation of truth. YESHUA HA'MASIACH, the One we call JESUS CHRIST is the one and only Messiah. There is no other.
The difference between your messiah and our Messiah is the difference between the lines of Isaac (the son of the covenant from whose seed the Redeemer would be born -Genesis 17:19)… and Ishmael (the wild man whose hand will be against every man… – Genesis 16:12).
Your Mahdi was predicted by a false prophet named Muhammed. He is no messiah at all and something quite the opposite. There is no evidence, fulfilled prophecies or miracles to support his claims and no one accept the Imams who followed this false prophet who forced this religion on others (lest they be killed), those who sadly forced to follow against their will and those who bought into the whole mess of lies, propaganda, anti-Semitism, and hatred that has been generated not to mention the horrific genocide.
I pray GOD will have mercy and wipe the scales from your eyes, turn you to the Truth and let you drink of the cup of salvation in JESUS CHRIST the risen LORD! Amen. Praise GOD!
TUPRBABE
I’ve done a lot of study on the antichrist ie “the Assyrian”, “king of Babylon”. I have a notion on who the antichrist could possibly be and he is a direct descendant of Muhammed… and it would also fit with the prophecy of why he will allow Jordan to escape his military might. Thanks for the link! I’ll do some more reading when I’m not so busy and seek the LORD about it. Blessings!
x86, you said:
“Bonus question: Please explain to me the words of Jesus on the cross, "my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Who was Jesus talking to, himself? Who is "my"? And, who is "God"?”
King David gave this prophecy from Psalm 22. This was just one of the many many prophecies JESUS fulfilled when HE suffered in the sinner’s place, having become a curse for us (Please see Galatians 3:13). At the moment JESUS had fully bore the sins of the world upon HIMSELF, the sorrow, grief and pain were at their worst and the heavenly FATHER momentarily separated HIMSELF from JESUS (Please see Isaiah 53:10-12 and 2 Corinthians 5:21). JESUS fulfilled this prophecy when HE cried out these anguished words (see Matt 27:46; Mark 15:34)…when HE quoted this verse, HE was also claiming this entire Psalm as a description of HIMSELF.
Though JESUS was fully GOD and could have called 12 legions of angels and fire down from heaven to destroy those who killed HIM, HE abased HIMSELF as a lamb unto the slaughter to fulfill HIS Word and complete the work of HIS promised salvation. In order to fulfill salvation for mankind, GOD the SON had to take on the bodily form of man who knew no sin and stand in the place of sinful man defeating death and eternal separation from GOD. Sinful man born of sin could never accomplish this, just the same way evil cannot destroy evil. It took the power of a holy and sinless and loving GOD to destroy sin and death by making HIMSELF a ransom.
its interesting how more and more false teachings are coming around now adays, whats the first thing you need to do if you wanted to disprove christianity, create doubt about the cruxifiction and resurrection of Jesus....
it sounds like the theology of the devil to me. he has many plans and many faiths to draw man away from the one true God and the Gospel of Jesus the Christ. in these later days he is a very busy boy.
Christians should be aware that Muslims believe that when Jesus returns at the 2nd Coming, that this Jesus will be subservant to the Islamic Caliph at the time and the Caliph (aka Mahdi) and Jesus will launch a global Jihad and do two primary things "Kill the pigs" (guess who the pigs are?) and "Break the cross". Their mission is to establish Islam as the only religion on earth. The function of the Islamic version of Jesus is the complete repudiation of the real Jesus and the eventual destruction of Judiasm and Christianity. To the Muslims I say: If I'm wrong, then I'm open to hear your argument.
Dwen, you said:
1)"The God of my imagination delegates his work like any good manager. My God lets nature do its thing and God watches, not interfering no matter how distasteful the result is."
You may not be aware of this but you are humanizing God. So many people make this mistake. The Creator of the universe is so far more intelligent, understanding and so far more caring about each and every detail of our lives here on earth and everlasting eternity with Him than you allow yourself to imagine.
2)"What really bothers me about modern religions is an assumption they make - the earth is God's favorite planet. The more I learn about how massive the universe is, the more I doubt this one planet could be God's favorite place. Personally I think earth is just perfect, but to the God of my imagination our planet would be equal to one grain of sand in the Sahara Desert."
You are right. Our planet is like "one grain of sand in the Sahara Desert" according to God's limitless greatness and power:
HE is the omnipotent Lord God Almighty (infinite in power and glory beyond the farthest stretches of our imagination),
Omniscient (all-knowing, limitless in knowledge and wisdom from the greatest right down to the finest detail of the tiniest particle matter in all the farthest spance of the evergrowing and changing universe at all times),
Omnipresent (everpresent, everywhere, at all times).
HE is absolutely holy, supreme and perfect in every way and by the supremacy of HIS unfathomable love, He loves what He has created and is concerned about each of us and every finite detail of our lives greater than the most loving father could love his most precious child!
HE has given us everything we could ever need to sustain us and live life to the utmost in HIM in a joyful, worshipful, loving relationship with HIM and loving each other here on this earth and to enjoy eternal glory with HIM as HIS children. HE did this through JESUS.
Blessed is he who has not seen and yet believes.
GOD created man to have relationship with HIM. Adam sinned against GOD and utterly gave his dominion to the devil. Evil, sickness, death took over. GOD repented, sent a flood to wipe out the evil human race save one righteous man Noah, his family & the animals to start over & populate the earth. HE then gave man HIS covenant, HIS law and a way to atone for sin by the blood of animal sacrifices from the first born spotless, blemishless animal in the flock. Under the law man demonstrated he was still too sinful to abide in the law of GOD.
GOD still loved HIS creation so much HE ordained a new covenant of grace and sent HIS beloved only begotten SON, JESUS CHRIST. Fully GOD, JESUS chose to abase HIMSELF into the body of a man, born of a virgin from immaculate conception by the HOLY SPIRIT, to take on the sin of the world though HE was completely sinless. HE gave HIMSELF as the perfect sacrifice for all of mankind for propitiation of sins once and for all. HE died a horrifically brutal death as HE shed HIS blood in 7 places (7 is the biblical number for completion) which was made complete at the Cross. HE went into the bowels of hell, took back the dominion for mankind and resurrected on the 3rd day overcoming temptation, sickness, death and eternal damnation for all of mankind who would believe and abide in HIM. A short time later HE ascended back to HIS place in heaven and the right hand of the FATHER.
By the perfect atonement of CHRIST’s shed Blood, we are covered and cleansed from all our unrighteousness and redeemed from the law, sickness and spiritual death. JESUS is the only Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to GOD the FATHER but by HIM.
By believing in JESUS CHRIST, accepting HIM as our Saviour and LORD: HE baptizes us in HIS HOLY SPIRIT Who reveals HIS truths to us and gives us the power to lead repentant lives of holiness, have a close relationship with HIM, to be fruitful, spread the good news of HIS Gospel of Salvation to the world and overcome any temptations and persecutions along the way, all with great help from HIS angels, many blessings in the midst and most importantly eternal life with HIM! Thank You LORD Hallelujah!!!
Raymond,
"They have taken their point of view put it to video, i would rather see this type of validation than bombs in markets which kill women and children... I guess what i am saying let us not say mine is better than yours let us say who offers salvation."
If this was all of what the Quran said, then it would be tolerable, but unfortunately the Quran can easily be used to justify also blowing up innocents. As long as the words of the Quran can be actually interpreted, and as long as the Hadith remains, innocent people will die. Conceeding a false, scholarly lacking view of the Crucifixion will not build a road to peace, the only road to peace will be either the message of the Quran stopped, or else the subjugation of Chrisitans.
Look at what is happening since Denmark has decided to reprint cartoons! Death threats, massive protests, and angry mobs have formed. Count on terrorist attacks increasing, count on more innocents die. Certainly, if they want to make an intellectually void rendition of Christ's life, then that is fine, but under no circumstance should we use this as a platform for peace, it wouldn't even work anyways.
I think it will help non muslims understand what the muslim mind frame is regarding Jesus.
They have taken their point of view put it to video, i would rather see this type of validation than bombs in markets which kill women and children.
The muslim world should have the right to express their point of view and when you consider what the secular world does to GOD and anything good....well i hope this will start a dialogue to peace.
As the saying goes you can lead a horse to water...
However if their is no freedom of thought due to fear or enforcement then woe to them that corrupt.
I guess what i am saying let us not say mine is better than yours let us say who offers salvation.
Let me be clear, this in no way implies that GOD is created or a physical and finite!
GOD is One in the Trinity FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT. HE made us to be in HIS likeness.
We are spirit (created before the foundation of the world), soul (which is the mind, will, and emotions) and body (physical, finite)...three distinctive parts in one person. If each distinctive personage of GOD wasn't so far greater than this I guess you could try to whittle things down in order to better undertstand to say that GOD is the FATHER (soul), the SON JESUS (body), HOLY SPIRIT (spirit).
Michael-ca,
The idea, "monotheism+paganism = trinity" actually equals "misunderstanding of the Trinity".
1 God, Three eternal, equal Persons, no contradictions.
Think of it this way, the Bible tells us that the husband and wife become one, no? How is it that they become one when they are separate people? The Bible is adamant that they are one actual person, the same flesh.
1) Either the Bible is lying
or,
2) The presupposition that one "person" cannot exist in two persons, is wrong.
x86,
You are right, God didn't have to, He could have done anything, in fact here are some other possibilities God most certainly could have chosen,
1) Left us in our sin, without hope of salvation.
or,
2) Went against His own decrees and His own nature, and simply declared everyone justified.
In case (1) God would not be loving, in case (2) God would either not be just or He would contradict Himself. It just so happens that in the Christian Worldview, we value coherency and believe that God means what He says.
debs6196, you are not getting it man!
You said: No, it is the Christian belief that by laying down his life, he conquered death once and for all.
Do you really believe in one supreme God, I mean the God? Why is your god having to "conquered death once and for all"? Don't you see the problem in your believe? I mean, just think about it. The God is the creator. The creator of everything! Including the death. He don't need to conquer ANYTHING. God don't need to fight with anyone! He is the Almighty! You do not understand the power of God. The God that Abraham, Solomon, Moses preached about, IS MUCH MORE POWERFUL then what you are saying.
God don't have to come all the way down to earth and spent a lifetime as human to accomplish anything.
X86, good one, you have asked the billion dollar question:
Bonus question: Please explain to me the words of Jesus on the cross, "my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Who was Jesus talking to, himself? Who is "my"? And, who is "God"?
This would be pretty weird to think the Only God take two forms and one form is asking the other, why have you forsaken me?
Monotheism + paganism = trinity
Trinity makes no senses if you believe 10 commandments.
1. From this movie, I thought we were debating that Christian version said Jesus died. Quran said Jesus didn't die.
Question: Now, which version do you believe? If you believe Christian version, then Jesus died. Therefore he is NOT God.
2. Trinity makes no sense. A) If Jesus is "son of God" b) If Jesus is God c) there is only one god.
Question: So God give birth Himself? How could father and son be only one? If Jesus is the God, then he can't be "son of God". Can he?
Bonus question: Please explain to me the words of Jesus on the cross, "my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Who was Jesus talking to, himself? Who is "my"? And, who is "God"?
"But isn't it a Christian belief that Jesus rose from the dead? Didn't Jesus die on a cross?"
No, it is the Christian belief that by laying down his life, he conquered death once and for all. I implore you, read the Gospels in their entirety and ask for the Holy Spirit (wether you believe in God or not) to guide your knowledge while you read (i.e. read with a curious, open-mind to seek knowledge). That's how you know what Christianity is. You can't take sound bites or expect a Christian to be able to answer in a concise manner something that our modern material culture has so few words to define.
To address your question about an interfering God...well if a creator made something (like us) don't you think we at least to know the rules from the one who made us. He laid them down pretty clearly in the Old Testaments and blessedly, many Jews kept his laws alive. But because we were created in His image (meaning we MUST have free will) we can choose to follow those laws or disobey them and too often we disobey them to our demise and God's displeasure. God made his word flesh "to dwell amongst us" to show us the way, the truth, and the light. He did so through Jesus.
Dwen,
First, you have to understand that Jesus is 100% God and 100% human. Jesus set aside some of His divine nature (i.e. omnipresence, omniscience, omnipotence) to be born of a virgin. This means that even though He is God, while on earth he felt hunger, thirst, pain, fatigue, etc. Therefore, even though He is God, He could still suffer physical death.
Most people understand God is immmortal. This is true. Unless God relinquishes His life, it cannot be taken. Jesus said He could lay down His life, and take it up again. This claim refers to His divine nature. Jesus wasn't killed by the Romans, He didn't die until He gave up His life. This is consistent with Him being God.
Your last statement refers to the argument that the Bible doesn't mean what it says. As God's Word, it is clear in showing God has keen interest in our world, and in each individual's life, including yours and mine.
And x86,
Perhaps one of the most central tenants of Christianity is that Jesus is the word made flesh (i.e. God). There is only one God, in all his glory, he takes on many forms. Think of water - it can be a solid (ice), a gas (fog) and a liquid. No matter it's shape (and it moves between all three all the time) it's still water. God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all the one in the same. Same God expressing Himself if different ways. That's what the trinity means - One God (just as in the Old Testament) in three forms/realms.
Dwen:
God didn't die. That's why we're celebrating Easter right now. Leaving the physical realm is not death.
x86 - I encourage you to read the Bible and not believe the traditions of men. The Bible is the word of God, the traditions of men are simply made up fables.
Dwen,
Jesus is God, but he is also a flesh and blood man. He was born from a woman's womb. As such EVERY man shall die. Where then will you spend eterninty? That is the question you and everyone needs to ask themselves.
See what Quran sys about Mary (mother of Jesus)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5gqi0Q3UUE
please note that:
1. Zakariya (in arabic) == the New Testament priest Zechariah or Zacharias, is one of the prophets mentioned in the Qur'an.
2. Harun (in arabic) == In the Bible he is known as Aaron
Dear TUPRBABE,
Dude, No offence, but you need to learn a lot of things.
Here is Islam101 for you:
Issa (peach be upon him) is the Arabic name for Jesus. Did you know? As Ibrahim (peach be upon him) is for Abraham. Maryam (peach be upon her) is for Mary. Muslims are waiting for Imam Mehdi followed by Jesus i.e. Issa (peach be upon him) who will unite all TRUE believers. He will be in Muslims' side. Will you be in his side?
What you said earlier is just dead wrong. I don't want to comment on current political matters that you describe. But about the religion, please don't lie or say anything you do not know.
Question: If Jesus is the God, how can God die? In paganism, gods die and resurrect. But in true religion, religion of Abraham, religion of Moses, how could God die? If God die, who would run the show? And how could there be more than one god? Didn't you read the 10 commandments? Prophet Mohamed (peach be upon him), like all other prophet teaches Muslims to believe that:
There is only one God. No one other than the God is worthy enough to be worshiped.
Mohamed (peach be upon him) is not worthy enough!
Jesus/Issa (peach be upon him) is not worthy enough!
Maryam/Mary (peach be upon him) is not worthy enough!
Only the God is worthy enough to be worshiped.
scitsonga
Your jest is completely unqualified since our cause in Iraq was not for religious reasons.
But if you look at the history of Israel you will note that God led this nation to take over other Gentile nations because of the sins of the Gentile nations.
Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. Jesus Christ died on the cross,
shed His blood to save the mankind. Without having the crucifixion, the gospel of Christ has
no validity.
There might be a plan of God in creating this movie of Jesus Christ by the Muslims, and the
Christian community need not have to get even with the matter. About 6 million Muslims are
are coming to Christian faith in Asia and Africa every year. God can use this movie to draw
more Muslims to seek about the life of Jesus Christ, and read the Bible, then the Holy Spirit
will do rest of the job. Let us all pray to God so that the Holy Spirit can undertake the
job of drawing more Muslims to Jesus Christ.
"The best way to avoid that is to keep religion out of politics and government."
... yeah like china, north korea, cuba... what model nations those are, everyone's jumping the borders to get into those countries
what?? no media outcry on this? no fatwah was announced? bin laden rants about mohammed cartoons but doesnt issue a denouncing statement for this film? oh my! oh my!!
scitsonga, I don't have to prove anything to you. God will do it for me. I hope for your sake that you choose wisely when the time comes to take sides. Eternity is a very long time to be wrong.
gmac0961 "As Christians, we may find this wrong and offensive, but at least we won't issue a death warrant or blow up any buildings because of this film"
Instead they invade countries such as Iraq and destroy its people and country.
TUPRBABE, The old "my religion is the correct one, yours is wrong." "You are going to hell and I am gong to heaven" thing too. Lets hope the silly notions of christians, jews and muslims doesn't get the world into WW 3. The best way to avoid that is to keep religion out of politics and government.
The anit-christ is myth & imagination...
"Issa" does not resemble Jesus simply because he isn't Jesus.
Muslims are waiting for the return of their own messiah, called the Imam al-Mahdi. After his return, he is later joined by Issa, who becomes his religious and political leader. The Qur'an requires that anyone who claims to be a prophet must be able to call down fire from heaven. The Imam will initiate a 7-year peace treaty with the Jews and Christians, but it will be broken, and Issa will execute those who refuse to convert to Islam by beheading.
At the end of the 7 years, the Muslim antichrist "Dajjal" will appear in the sky riding a white mule. He will "trick" the Jews and Christians into calling him "Lord" and "Son of David." According to Muslim eschatology, Issa will kill the Dajjal and his followers, and all the world will convert to Islam.
As you can see, Islam makes the biblical Antichrist and False Prophet into heroes, and the Lord Jesus Christ into a devil. This is, of course, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, just like the Pharisees did when they accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Satan. Islam is, quite frankly, the religion of the Beast.
Millions of Christians have been fooled into looking for a Caucasian Atheist Russian (i.e., Nicolae Carpathia) to be the Antichrist. Instead, it will be an Iraqi Muslim. Islam has already become the one religion with a "pass" to do just about anything - take a look at the headlines in the UK to see how their government tiptoes around their religion so that nobody gets "offended."
For more information, read Joel Richardson's book, "Will Islam Be Our Future?" It is available online here:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/JR/Future/index.htm
Tell your friends. Time is indeed short.
I bet Mel Gibson is turning in his grave.
I can't wait for it to come out on DVD!
The proper response is teach the truth and let the truth win out, as it will in the end.
As Christians, we may find this wrong and offensive, but at least we won't issue a death warrant or blow up any buildings because of this film. I wish the Muslim nations would take note of that.