State Rep. Kern, Openly Gay Pastor Spar Over Homosexual Lifestyle

Oklahoma Rep. Sally Kern (R-Oklahoma City), who said that the homosexual lifestyle is a bigger threat to American than terrorism, faced off against an openly gay pastor Easter Sunday in a debate on homosexuality that delved into politics and theology.

The debate on KFOR-TV's "Flash Point,” which was posted on YouTube, featured Kern, host Kevin Ogle, panelists Burns Hargis and Mike Turpen, and Dr. Scott Jones of Oklahoma City's Cathedral of Hope. Hargis defended Kern's views while Turpen sided with Jones.

During the debate, Kern clarified comments she made at a Republican event in January, saying that she was speaking of the "homosexual agenda" and not people who are gay.

"They are out there putting forth-funding very heavily-homosexual and pro-homosexual candidates to run against, and defeat, conservatives across the nation," she explained.

Just like terrorism "destroys and tears down," continued the Oklahoma legislator, the homosexual agenda "is at the heart of trying to tear down what is the bedrock foundation of our society, which is the family and traditional marriage."

The Oklahoma legislator has received over 7,000 e-mails and voice messages – including a few death threats – for her comments comparing the gay lifestyle to terrorism. Her comments generated national attention after pro-homosexual group Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund posted the recording on YouTube two weeks ago. The video has been viewed more than 1 million times.

On the Sunday television program, Turpen asked Kern whether she believed Jones was more dangerous than Osama bin Laden.

Now, I was not saying that Scott here is personally as dangerous as Osama bin Laden," Kern responded, "but I was just making a comparison to prove my point."

She also countered that it is actually Christians who have been the target of such speech.

"On many occasions, Christians have been compared to terrorists because of our beliefs in traditional family and sticking to the Bible," said Kern. "There's a website right now called American Taliban, where Christians are identified as worse than terrorists and you don’t hear anything being said about that."

Jones said that while he denounces hate speech, he wanted to know whether Kern thought gay people were like cancer and terrorists – both something that people want to "kill" or "annihilate."

Kern reiterated once more that she was referring to the homosexual agenda and lifestyle, not the people themselves.

It is "a lifestyle that has deadly consequences for our young people, a lifestyle that will – if it becomes mainstream throughout society – … destroy the Christian religion,” she said to Jones.

“[Pat] Buchanan said in his book, 'The Death of a Nation,' that for homosexuality to succeed they have to destroy Christianity," Kern added.

"I wasn't saying that you guys were a cancer," she continued. "I was saying that the effect is the very same as a cancer. If God's people do not stand up and proclaim God's Word, which teaches that homosexuality is a sin, and if we try to just ignore it and let it become mainstream and take on the mentality that you folks want – that it's a normal lifestyle – then that is going to spread through our culture, and we will no longer have the same kind of culture we've had for over 200 years. That's all I meant."

In the discussion, the Kern and Jones also discussed biblical views on homosexuality.

Kern said she believed homosexuality was part of man's sinful nature.

"A person cannot be saved until they realize they're lost," she stated. "We must repent of our sin."

"Homosexuals are trying to say that our sin is not sin because you don't want to repent of sin. And that's what God wants."

Jones said that if someone who was confused about his sexuality approached him for advice, he would tell that person that being gay is not a sin.

Hargis challenged Jones on how he would interpret the numerous verses in the Bible- including Leviticus, Romans, and 1 Timothy – that condemn homosexuality.

The Oklahoma City minister downplayed the scripture which referenced homosexuality, countering that Leviticus also contain passages that forbid wearing two cloths woven from two different seeds.

Kern, however, pointed out that there is a difference between moral law, civil law and ceremonial law.

While ceremonial and civil laws were intended for God's chosen people, she explained, "God's moral law applies to everyone."

When asked how she would react if her son was gay, Kern said she would love him.

She also made clear that she doesn't hate Jones, Democrats who further the homosexual agenda or gays, noting that she even once intervened on behalf of the lesbian assistant principal at Northwest Classen when administrators wanted to remove her.

The controversy surrounding Kern's comments have added to ongoing debate within the Christian community over the best approach in ministering to those who identify themselves as gay or lesbian.

Some Christians support Kern for her candid views while others say her comments may impede dialogue between Christians and the gay community.

Peter LaBarbera of the faith-based Americans for Truth About Homosexuality recently defended Kern, saying, “Rep. Kern is addressing a grave societal crisis caused by the ongoing, aggressive campaign to market destructive homosexual and gender-confused behavior as normal and good – especially to children."

He added that Oklahoma's overwhelming 75.6 percent vote in 2004 to define marriage as between a man and a woman confirmed that Oklahomans are behind Kern.

Kern’s comments also come at a time when the majority of today's young generation have a negative perception of Christianity – with 91 percent of young non-Christians and 80 percent of young churchgoers say present-day Christianity is "anti-homosexual," according to a Sept. 2007 survey by The Barna Group.

Meanwhile, gay and lesbian lifestyles placed fourth in a survey on the most pressing issues for evangelical Christians today after abortion, personal indebtedness, the content of television and movies and homosexual activists, a more recent Barna survey reported in January.

The Thomas More Law Center of Ann Arbor, Mich., agreed last Wednesday to represent Kern in any legal cases arising from the controversy.