LUXEMBOURG (AP) - EU nations that recognize same-sex unions as legal marriages must grant surviving partners the same pension rights as given to those in traditional marriages, the EU Court of Justice ruled Tuesday.
The Luxembourg-based court ruling was seen as a victory for a German man who was denied his partner's retirement plan payments after his partner died in 2005.
The EU court said pension plan had discriminated against the man on the grounds of sexual orientation because the men's relationship had been recognized under German law as a legally registered life partnership equivalent to a traditional marriage.
The court did not say, however, that all 27 EU nations must recognize same-sex unions, only that if they did they must grant life partners the same benefits.
Today, 10 EU nations do not recognize same-sex partnerships at all: Bulgaria, Cyprus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Romania, Slovakia and Ireland, according to the European branch of the International Lesbian and Gay Association. France and Italy grant them very limited rights, the group said.
But elsewhere in the EU — notably in the Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden — life partnerships have acquired considerable social rights in the last 20 years.
Copyright 2008 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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Comments
Teen4Christ,
"To deny that you were speaking directly to me does not synch up with your words."
Teen, I was speaking directly to you, but I was referring to your ideas, not you. I never said, "You are ridiculous" I don't think you are, and I never did. I think you are taking this too far, and avoiding the issue. But I am sorry that I offended you, I did not mean to give that impression.
You quoted me as saying that "only an ignorant person would make such an assumption" I did not call the other person ignorant, I said that one who made such an assumption would be ignorant. This is not name calling, it is stating a fact, granted it was a bit blunt. The person would be ignorant of certain established facts and historical arguments. It is the same thing as saying, "A person who makes this assumption would not understand all of the facts" This is what the word ignorant means. Granted in today's society ignorant is a name you call some one or some thing like this, but it is clear I did not call the person such. Also, please look at the context of things. You are trying to force this Teen, and it is getting more obvious.
"Calling me and others demeaning names is just one kind of intimidation. Even though you deny calling me and other people belittling names, your own words prove that you do! "
WHAT WORDS? You quoted a thread out of context, where I called (guess what?) an IDEA crazy, and said that a person who assumed a certain well established fact would be "ignorant". This does not prove your point, you are just saying that my words prove me wrong, but you havent shown it! I didn't call you a name, I didn't even call your Pastor a name. You are driving this into the ground, and it is non-existent.
"You have also tried to tell me I have no right to follow God’s Word in 1 John 4:1-3 and II John 1:7. You have tried to silence me when stating my doubts about someone who claims to be a Christian, yet refuses to say that “Jesus Christ has come in flesh.”"
WHERE? WHen did I try to silence you? Teen, I have no problem with your testing a persons faith, I do have a problem with what you originally said, are you going to deal with the issue, or are you going to keep slandering me needlessly? You are avoiding the issue and trying to make me look bad. I have sufficiently defended myself, and anyone who reads this post can see it. Now, can we deal with the issue? (I do apologize to you, or any others that took my words the wrong way, also, I will try to use "softer" words in the future)
Chris333
On Monday, April 07, 2008 9:56 pm, YOU wrote:
“Teen4Christ, This is RIDICULOUS and must come to an end.”
“Stop this MADNESS, this is REALLY REALLY WRONG.”
“I am being HARSH with you here, BECAUSE YOU NEED IT”.
To deny that you were speaking directly to me does not synch up with your words.
On Monday, February 18, 2008 6:55 am, YOU wrote to someone in another thread who was pointing out errors in the different ancient manuscripts of the Greek New Testament: “The mythical thinking that the Bible is somehow untrustworthy is CRAZY and only an IGNORANT person would make such an accusation.”
A bully is “the act of intimidating a person perceived to be weak to make them do something.”
Calling me and others demeaning names is just one kind of intimidation. Even though you deny calling me and other people belittling names, your own words prove that you do!
You have also tried to tell me I have no right to follow God’s Word in 1 John 4:1-3 and II John 1:7. You have tried to silence me when stating my doubts about someone who claims to be a Christian, yet refuses to say that “Jesus Christ has come in flesh.”
Teen4Christ,
The only thing I said that you might construe as being directed at a person, was when I said, "I am amazed at your pastor"
But if you look at the rest of my post, it is clear that I am not amazed at your pastor, but what your pastor is saying. When I say, "This is ridiculous" I am not saying, "You are ridiculous" , the word, "this" pertains to the idea, not you. "This is madness" also refers to the idea, not to you, I do not believe you or your pastor are "mad". "Really really wrong" refers to the idea, but I meant it as refering to you and your pastors calling Star the anti-christ (which is part of your idea). You have accused me of calling names, which is not true, and yet you have called me 1) a bully, 2) insecure, 3) a name caller. All three not deserved. You have called Star the anti-christ. Wow, I guess your goal is to build us up?
I can separate ideas from people, it would be helpful if you could do the same.
Teen4Christ (Part 1),
You said, "Even though you want me to stop posting and others try to delete what I post, I’m definitely not keeping my faith “hidden under a bushel basket.”"
This is not true! I never said I wanted you to stop posting. Honesty is also a Christian virtue you know? And slandering someone is a sin.
"Did I violate one word of Scripture by following 1 John 4:1-3 and II John 1:7?
No!
Does Scripture in 1 John 4:1-3 and II John 1:7 give me permission to test a spirit?
Yes!"
Did I violate either? NO. Does it matter, NO. Teen4Christ, please understand, I am not against you, I am happy you put your view forward. Now, I am challenging your views, in an attempt to help you grow in your faith. Please deal with what I say, and do not attribute things to me that I do not say. It is just wrong.
"Does Scripture actually command believers to “test the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world”? (I John 4:1).
Yes!"
Nobody disagrees with you, we are debating how, how to test spirits. That is the issue. Even demons can quote Scripture, and even demons believe in Jesus. Let's talk about the real way to distinguish OK?
"What gives you the authority to rebuke me for following the Scripture?
None!"
Again, Satan quoted scripture, and Jesus rebuked him. Imagine if Satan said, "What gives you the right to rebuke me for quoting Scripture?" Anyone can quote Scripture, we are discussing the right interpretation, can we do that?
"You call other people “ignorant,” “stupid,” the list could go on."
Whaaaaat? Please quote one time where I called another person (not their idea) stupid or ignorant! You are slandering me without a shred of evidence. Can you please hold yourself to a higher standard?
"Whenever you run out of logical arguments you seem to end up calling people demeaning names and say you’re doing it in Christ’s love. "
Teen 4 Christ (Part 2)
Again, I have never resorted to such name calling. You need to show me where I actually said it. I usually follow this pattern, "I am shocked at (such and such an idea), this is ridiculous. How can we say such a thing when (then I give an argument), please explain (your idea)!" Yes, I use harsh words sometimes, yes people deserve it sometimes, Paul used harsh words often! Are you going to tell Paul what you have told me? On the other hand, you did not deal with a single point I raised, you just called me names (just like you accuse me of doing). Will you please deal with what I said!? You make me look like a bully who doesn't listen. And for what! Because I challenged your interpretation! Amazing!
" understand that your intention is not to build up someone like me, who is young in years as well as in the faith. Your words are plain and “harsh,” as you, yourself said, with the intention to pummel someone into submitting to the truth as you define it."
Teen, please, I am not trying to offend you, and I am bad at small talk. I raised valid points in what I said, and you, and your pastor, need to deal with them. I never once attacked you, I attacked the ideas. If someone comes up to you and says, "I believe gay people should burn at a stake" Will you say, "Now listen, we need to be nice and not say things like this, of course you are free to express your views and say whatever you like"? NO, you are going to say, "Listen man, that is wrong and that is evil, you need to change your ideas" Now look at those words, we would say "wrong" and "evil", but notice, we are not calling the person evil, we are calling his ideas evil. And rightly so! Now he could counter and give an argument, or he could say, "HOW DARE YOU CALL ME EVIL, YOU ARE A HATEFUL PERSON!" But this statement is not true.
"The counselor at school says that people who use words to put others down are really insecure, and feel out of control. Calling other people names gives them the feeling of being superior and in control."
Did your counselor tell you about lying?
"Hopefully, you can see why I said, “I am not afraid of you. Actually, I feel sorry for you.” "
I'm sorry, I am just not seeing it Teen. I have seen you throw a lot of mud, I have not seen you deal with a single issue, and I am really confused at your feelings. I have been called a lot of names on this blog, "Fairy believer" "magic believer" "stupid" "anti-science" "hateful" etc etc. I don't let it get to me, I never called you one name, I never called your pastor one name, or your father. You have called me a lot. We need to deal with issues ok? And I am sorry if you somehow had the impression that I thought you were anything that you attributed to me. I did not intend it at all.
Teen4Christ
This is what you said: just finished a phone call with my pastor and also showed my mom and dad your 4:23 pm and 4:08 pm post. My pastor got online, saw the question I asked you, “Would you please say, ‘Jesus the Anointed has come in flesh.’?”
Your response was, “Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God, born of a virgin, who lived a sinless life, and died for my sins and rose from the dead, who ascended to Heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and makes intercession for me is my Lord and Savior. Is He yours?”
My pastor asked me to look up two Scriptures:
1 John 4:3 says, “And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”
2 John 1:7 says, “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”
He said that your spirit is not of God. Instead, it is “a deceiver and antichrist” because - even given two opportunities - you would not, state that, “Jesus the Anointed has come in flesh.”
He said that even if you posted later and said, “Jesus the Anointed has come in flesh.” Not to trust what you say or have any more communication with you because the spirit of antichrist is a liar.
Your Pastor is out of line to accuse me of being the antichrist and a liar. If he can't see that I confessed that Jesus Christ came in the flesh by my statement then he lacks what is needed to instruct any one in spiritual matters.
Your pastor knows nothing about me and does not know what I believe. To say that I believe that Jesus' virgin birth was aparitional is absurd.
I have been living for God since Jan 1977. I have served God as a missionary for the past 20 or more years. I do not appreciate a man accusing me of being the antichrist and a liar, and doing it through a young kid, all because he had no answer to my question, "Where does it say in the Bible that God approves of homosexuality?"
Chris333 and GMG were responding to your Pastor's foolish statement that I didn't meet the criteria that I believed that Jesus Christ came in the flesh.
Your Pastor is wrong regarding homosexuality and he is wrong about my faith in God. There is no scriptural basis for your Pastor's belief. It is the sound bites of the world.
I gave you a thumbs down because of your attitude towards Chris333 and I flagged you because of your attitude towards me. Your pride and arrogance stinks. I only flagged two of your three posts. If you had looked in the morning at the postings before you went whining to your dad you would have seen that. If you are going to post on CP then grow up.
Chris333
Even though I’m a kid, I claim the promise that the Lord has not given me “the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind” (2 Timothy 1:7). Even though you want me to stop posting and others try to delete what I post, I’m definitely not keeping my faith “hidden under a bushel basket.”
I am so blessed to have parents, pastors, brothers and sisters at Church, friends and neighbors that I can have discussions with about the Lord and faith issues.
Did I violate one word of Scripture by following 1 John 4:1-3 and II John 1:7?
No!
Does Scripture in 1 John 4:1-3 and II John 1:7 give me permission to test a spirit?
Yes!
Does Scripture actually command believers to “test the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world”? (I John 4:1).
Yes!
What gives you the authority to rebuke me for following the Scripture?
None!
You can rebuke me all you want by calling what I have to say: “ridiculous,” “really, really wrong,” and “madness.” I’ve seen similar words of yours in different places on this site. You call other people “ignorant,” “stupid,” the list could go on. Really! Your words follow a definite pattern. Whenever you run out of logical arguments you seem to end up calling people demeaning names and say you’re doing it in Christ’s love.
I understand that your intention is not to build up someone like me, who is young in years as well as in the faith. Your words are plain and “harsh,” as you, yourself said, with the intention to pummel someone into submitting to the truth as you define it.
The counselor at school says that people who use words to put others down are really insecure, and feel out of control. Calling other people names gives them the feeling of being superior and in control.
Hopefully, you can see why I said, “I am not afraid of you. Actually, I feel sorry for you.”
Teen4Christ,
I still would like an explanation of why you feel sorry for me? If you are going to tell a guy that you feel sorry for him, then please explain what you feel sorry about. Otherwise, it gives the impression that you just look down on the guy, for no good reason at all.
Lev 18:22 - "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination."
Lev 20:13 - "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have commiteed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.:
Ezekiel 16:49-50
49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idelness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminnate, nor abuser of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor theives, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Jude 7 - "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
God's Word is quite clear that gay sex is an abomination to God and all those who practice it will perish. No where in scripture will you find God saying otherwise. Those who think He has have not rightly divided the Word of Truth.
God will bring to nought any nation who embraces homosexuality.
Ge 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
God brought a woman unto the man, not a man unto the man. May those who are bound in the abomination of same-gender relationships see the truth, and turn from its deadly embrace.
Teen4Christ
I am the one who flagged you. I gave you a 'thumbs down' for your attitude towards Chris333 and I flagged you because of your attitude towards me.
I am glad that you have a family where you can bring the concerns of your life to them. Many teenagers don't have that. I know that you love and appreciate your family.
God loves you. Look to Jesus for the answers.
God made them male and female. Man’s helpmate was not made from the same direct substance as he was. That which was taken from man (woman) is the only one who can properly become one flesh with him (husband & wife). The wife assumes the role of protecting from within (rib), while the man protects from without.
Two males are contrary to becoming one flesh according to God’s plan. Neither one was taken from the other. Neither one has the true ability to function as a rib (spiritually speaking). Therefore, becoming the one flesh that God intended is impossible for two males. Such a relationship is earthly, sensual, and devilish.
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
What is good? God saw that it was good for man to have a helpmate and that that helpmate should be a woman. Let us hold fast to that which is good concerning helpmate relationships, male and female.
I just wanted to thank my dad and christianpost.com. for allowing my voice to be heard.
When my family was talking over breakfast this morning, I explained that my original posting from Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:46 pm was “flagged.” My dad phoned their offices and discussed what had happened.
He was told that all messages are logged in their database and was assured that if nothing I said violated their user policy, they would repost the original message.
They reposted the original message, which was not very different from the one I tried to rewrite from memory!
Dad, you’re my best friend on earth - thanks! To the people at christianpost.com, “Thank you, too!”
Also, is that what you originally posted? Who and why would anyone want to flag it??? Are you sure that is what you originally wrote? I cannot understand why anyone would flag it.