Pope Benedict XVI will visit the United States next week in a highly anticipated event that many predict will shape, if not define, Benedict in the eyes of Americans.
Benedict’s visit begins next Tuesday and will offer an opportunity for him to re-shape his image from a stern, conservative, non-compromising theologian to a softer, more charming figure. The visit marks the first close-up Americans will have of the successor of the late John Paul II.
Although the majority of Americans (52 percent) have a favorable view of Pope Benedict, a relatively large number of Americans – three out of 10 – say they do not know enough about him to offer an opinion, according to a recent Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life report.
Moreover, the current pontiff continues to be less favored than his predecessor, Pope John Paul II. Benedict XVI has a favorability rating of 52 percent as of March 2008, compared to John Paul II’s 76 percent favorability in May 1987, nearly a decade after he became pope.
"I do think that to some extent there is a disconnect between the public impression of this man and the private personality,” said John Allen, a prominent U.S. Catholic author and journalist, according to Reuters. “You will never meet a more gracious figure."
The pope’s visit to America coincides with several important events, including the three year anniversary of his election as pope; the 200th anniversary of Baltimore become an archdiocese and the creation of the dioceses of New York, Philadelphia, Boston and Bardstown, Ky.; and his 81st birthday.
During his six-day visit to the United States, the Pope will stop only in the cities of New York and Washington, DC. He plans to meet with President Bush at the White House, pray at the World Trade Center site and celebrate Mass with tens of thousands of people at Washington’s new National’s Park and New York’s Yankee Stadium.
"The pope I have seen for the past three years is the Joseph Ratzinger I have known for 20 – a holy and brilliant priest who knows who he is, a master teacher with remarkable skill in explaining complex Christian doctrines and a quite winsome public personality," said George Weigel, a theologian and author on Catholic issues, according to USA Today.
There are 67 million Catholics in the United States and they compose the second largest religious group behind Protestant Christianity.
RSS
HyperionOverseer,
Thank you for your words of encouragement.
Godspeed!!!!
Online4Him
looks like youre cutting deep...well done!
drive them into a corner if you must, let the truth be known!
BOUT TIME some truth about the pope comes out!
i commend you!
YES or NO?
Pope Boniface VIII (1235-1303 CE) promulgated a Papal Bull in 1302 CE titled Unam Sanctam (One Holy). He wrote, in part:
“Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."
DO YOU BELIEVE THIS?
Come on now, do you seriously believe this statement - “it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff”?
This one many fallacies that Rome teaches!
If you think that God wanted 50,000 Christian denominations with hundreds more being founded every week being founded on sola scriptura then that is your opinion. However, I'll stick with the 1 Roman Catholic with the Pope as the head of the Church. There are so many different interpretations of scripture and yours is just one of thousands...who is right? Is someone who posts anonymously on a comment board more right than a Church that has been founded for 2,000 years...maybe in your opinion but not mine.
Taj,
Come on now, do you seriously believe this statement - “it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff”?
The scriptural passages that you give were referring to all of the apostles; furthermore, we have discussed this at length already: Rome looks back in hindsight with claims of an unbroken chain of popes. Peter was never pope nor has there ever been an unbroken line of bishops as they claim.
You said, “. . . has developed and been more clearly understood over time.”
Well said, because this was surely not taught in the first century church nor does scripture ever speak of a universal - visible head in the Church. Jesus Christ said that the Holy Spirit would be sent in his place to lead, teach, and guide (See John 14:16-18 & John 16:13).
He was referring to Papal infallibility with regards to Church teachings...how long were you a Catholic? We have this from Jesus himself, who promised the apostles and their successors the bishops, the magisterium of the Church: "He who hears you hears me" (Luke 10:16), and "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" (Matt. 18:18).
Infallibility belongs in a special way to the pope as head of the bishops (Matt. 16:17–19; John 21:15–17). As Vatican II remarked, it is a charism the pope "enjoys in virtue of his office, when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms his brethren in their faith (Luke 22:32), he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals. Therefore his definitions, of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church, are justly held irreformable, for they are pronounced with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, an assistance promised to him in blessed Peter."
The infallibility of the pope is not a doctrine that suddenly appeared in Church teaching; rather, it is a doctrine which was implicit in the early Church. It is only our understanding of infallibility which has developed and been more clearly understood over time. In fact, the doctrine of infallibility is implicit in these Petrine texts: John 21:15–17 ("Feed my sheep . . . "), Luke 22:32 ("I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail"), and Matthew 16:18 ("You are Peter . . . ").
Taj,
This quote does seem to elevate your pope as savior; not only is this fallacy but it is another gospel!
Pope Boniface VIII (1235-1303 CE) promulgated a Papal Bull in 1302 CE titled Unam Sanctam (One Holy). He wrote, in part:
“Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."
Correction: “But I see that the divine essence is so pure--purer than the imagination can conceive--that the soul…”
St. Catharine of Genoa on Purgatory
“But I see that the divine essence is so pure purer than the imagination can conceive that the soul, finding in itself the slightest imperfection, would rather cast itself into a thousand hells than appear, so stained, in the presence of the divine majesty. Knowing, then, that Purgatory was intended for her cleansing, she throws herself therein, and finds there that great mercy, the removal of her stains.” (Purgatory: Doctrinal, Historical and Poetical, by Mrs. J. Sadlier. Imprimatur: Michael Augustine, Archbishop of New York. Copyright, 1886. K. A. Sadlier.)
Examine the belief of purgatory torment used as cleansing with the following verses:
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to CLEANSE us from all unrighteousness…And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:” (1Jn 1:9, 2:1).
As one can see, a belief in purgatory diminishes the cross of Christ, His precious blood, and His power as our advocate! Read the verses again, prayerfully. One’s cleansing does not take place in a place called “purgatory.”
I love my Christian brothers and sisters, but from time to time we will have differences in opinions. As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).
APXH,
I don't know that site, but Catholics believe that Jesus Saves...period, but we also believe that we can ask Mary, the saints, and others to pray for us. The CP clearly has had articles that state Catholicism is Christian, so having Christ at the center is not an issue. My problem with Online is that he doesn't believe that Catholicism is Christian, so we have major differences.
Enough with the nonsense. Only Jesus Saves. PERIOD. No pope, no priest, no Mary worship, or any other idolatry, will change the truth that only by Y'Shua, Jesus the Messiah, can you be forgiven your Law violations. YAHWEH is God the Father and Y'Shua is the Son and Messiah. No Jew, no Muslim, no Catholic, no Baptist, no Buddhist, and no Secularist can be saved by any other means but reliance in, repentance and surrender to Jesus as LORD, Messiah and God. Jesus came to save but only those who will submit to Yahweh in penitence. Repenting is not a work any more than begging forgiveness when you sin against anyone else. WAKE UP and receive the Mercy of Yahweh while you still can.
Patrick J Burwell / OnlyJesusSaves.com
As for the Pope, I'm talking about politically not as is in him taking the place of our Lord and Savior, the fact that you would even think I was doing that makes me realize how anti-Catholic you are.
Online,
The fact that as a former Catholic you don't even realize that Catholics put Jesus Christ as our Savior is beyond ridiculous. Well then as a former Seventh Day Adventist do you believe in soul sleep???
taj,
It is interesting that you used the word "credibility" (capable of being believed; believable: a credible statement).
Which is more credible? Quoting statements from God's Word or statements that are not found in God's Word? Hmmm . . . . which is credible? That is a tough one.
Taj,
It seems that you are stuck in neutral here; you can go on about “articles” (something that I never brought up) and “where I have been” which by the way does not prove purgatory . . . . . . In reference to the end times; I never made predictions, my quotes were from scripture, like always. I did respond to your comment about the “saints” – here was my response, for it has not changed-
“For there is one God, and “ONE MEDIATOR” between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”- 1Timothy 2:5.
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, “BUT BY ME” – John 14:6.
You said, “. . . the only Christian leader who can turn the tide.”
I will put my trust in the one true omnipotent leader; that would be Jesus Christ who describes himself as – “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”- Revelation 22:13.
Anyways, the President (for the first time ever) is on the tarmac waiting for the Pope to arrive and welcome him to the US. With Islam and the threat of terrorism looming he is turning to the only Christian leader who can turn the tide.
As for your book or Revelations comment, I said I don't focus on it like you but considering you were a Seventh Day Adventist and their history of end times predictions I'm not surprised that you feel that way. Don't you remember I used Revelations (Revelation 5:8) to show the importance of Saints? you still haven't responded to that one.
Online,
As for your comments about purgatory, you went from Catholicism to Ellen White's Seventh Day Adventist and the soul sleep...you have no credibility with me
Online,
I'll make it crystal clear for you Online...we are posting on the CP comment board. The Christian Post is a pan-denominational, Evangelical Christian newspaper based in Washington, D.C. and you COULDN'T find 1 article that was anti-Catholic, anti-Pope, or that indicated that the Catholic Church was anything but Christian. HOWEVER, I can easily find pro-Catholic, pro-Pope, and many articles that have CATHOLIC = CHRISTIAN. Now last year arguably the most well known evangelical society - the Evangelical Theological Society had its PRESIDENT convert to Catholicism. Hmmmm... I'm quite happy to be here...the harvest is rich, but the workers are few
msn,
It seems that you too have missed my point; allow me to reemphasize it again. “So what does all this name tossing really prove? Nothing!!! If you want to demonstrate your point; it would be best to demonstrate it from God’s Word.”
It is interesting that you speak of twisting scripture; those passages still not have proved your theory about purgatory. Can you please give me a text that speaks of this specific place? Heaven and hell are clearly mentioned several times but where is the place purgatory? You continue to try to pull rabbits out of your hat by trying to impose your interpretations upon these texts to justify dogmas that do not exist. Taj stated that perhaps purgatory was a onetime cleansing; so he is not totally sure. I am just quoting what he said. You ask me to read the church fathers who have contradicted themselves and were influenced by Gnostic teachings; no thanks. I will stick to what the apostles truly said in God’s Word.
These sacred traditions as you call them are not even mentioned in scripture; I gave you a list of them and you only choose to comment on purgatory. Hmmm…. I wonder why? You said,-
“The Catholic Church in the 4th Century binded on all Christians what belonged in the Bible.”
By this time the church mingled with the pagan culture and adopted many of their customs and practices; which by the way cannot be found in scripture or in the 1st century.
By the way; the non-denominational tag was given to me by taj, I never claimed that.
Online can come up with a few priests that converted, funny I've met some of them during my anti-catholic days. There are not too many that convert the Protestant way, while there are thousands that convert to Catholicism. There is truly no comparison.
Taj ddin't turn things around on you at all. You manipulate Scripture with a 21st Century lens. If you really want to know what the early christians felt about scripture, then read the Didache or read Ignatius or Irenaus or Augustine and you will find they are very Catholic.
You wouldn't do very well on Fox's Oreilly's NO Spin Zone! Mr. Spinster! At Gordon Conwell we use to laugh when people said they were non-denominational because it meant that there denomination still couldn't truly figure out where they belonged, so they started something with no historical merit, no tie to the Reformation and no tie to Historic Christianity.
Non-denominationalism is not found in the Bible, your worship service is not biblical(just because you read the bible makes you no better than a Mormon), you have no liturgy, you have no Biblical Hiearchy. Non-Denominationalism is a man made Tradtion and while I like a lot of People from ND's, they are still man made.
correction:
"book of Revelation"
Online,
Again, you and I both use scripture which is GREAT! And Scripture is where we should always both start. The Problem is your interpretation is new and my interpretation is Apostolic, from the Early Church Fathers and from the first 1000 years of interpreting the same scripture more times than there are Protestant Denominations.
I could find five other Protestants on this Board who would disagree with you on almost all your points. When you lack historicity, you lack the lens from which Scripture must be interpreted. In fact, I know some Lutherans and Calvinists who would have a real problem with your Non-denominationalism.
And you are wrong, Scripture doesn't interpret itself just like our Constition doesn't. The Christian Church was built on the Apostles not the Bible. The Hiearchy of the Church has the right to interpret Scripture. At the first Council in Acts, did Peter search the Scriptures to decide on Circumcission or what about eating only Kosher foods? Nope. He was given the Wisdom by the Holy Spirit which led him into all Truth, as promised. His decision was BINDING even though it was not from the Bible.
Scripture cannot be contradicted, so all beliefs must be balanced with Scripture. There is a huge difference between the Traditon of men and Sacred Traditions coming from the Apostles.
You also forget that God gave his authority to Bind and Lose only to the Apostles, and these Apostles passed it down to their chosen leaders. So, the Catholic Church has the power to bind and lose like; forgiveness of sins, not having to eat only Kosher, not having to be circumsized, having our day of worship on Sunday, celebrating Christmas, celebrating Holy thursday, Good Friday, Holy Saturday and Easter Sunday.
The Catholic Church in the 4th Century binded on all Christians what belonged in the Bible. So, it was Tradition that helped create the Bible. You accept a lot of our Tradition that you are so vehemently against. Sounds a bit hypocritical.
taj,
P.S. Let us not speak of the end times; the last time we had this discussion, you said you do not read the bood of Revelation, so why bring it up?
Taj,
It is interesting how you have switched what I said around; I am not surprised, you have changed the subject numerous times throughout our past discussions. I was speaking of those who posted comments here and you began talking about articles; how convenient. As far as the thumbs up and down ratings; it is very interesting that the day “AFTER” that I mentioned how others on the CP did not agree with your comments, all of a sudden you get 8 to 10 thumbs up. Did you call all your pals to have them chime in or did you visit the local library computer room to give yourself kudos? At any rate, it matters not to me; it is just very interesting how this happened over night.
Since you enjoy posting names of those who have joined your church; allow me to post a couple of names as well. Silvester Ezhumala who was a Catholic Priest for 15yrs serving as parish priest, convent Chaplin, vocation promoter, minor seminary professor, director of youth organizations, editor of Catholic Journals, author of numerous books, consultor to the Bishop, etc. This is one of many who left and he writes the foreword to an excellent book, entitled “Once a Catholic” written by another ex-priest by the name of Tony Coffey.
Bartholomew F. Brewer was a Catholic Priest in the Discalced Carmelite Order who left your church and wrote another excellent book entitled, “Pilgrimage from Rome.”
So what does all this name tossing really prove? Nothing!!! If you want to demonstrate your point; it would be best to demonstrate it from God’s Word.
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart” – Hebrews 4:12.
continued:
2Timothy 2:2 - The apostle gave him sound words which he was to teach; and now he tells him to commit those truths to faithful men in the same way that they were committed to him. This says nothing of “traditions” which were to come; it is a far stretch to use these passages to support many of your dogmas.
2 Peter 1:20 - "No Prophesy is a matter of private interpretation" – I couldn’t agree more; scripture interprets itself. “But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;” - Isaiah 28:13.
Romans 10:17 - "Faith comes from what is HEARD" – Uh, let’s quote the whole text here;
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the WORD OF GOD” – Romans 10:17. Faith comes by hearing the WORD OF GOD!
1Corinthians 15:1-2 – “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the GOSPEL. . .” These two passages are speaking of the “GOSPEL” not traditions; verses 3-4 are giving a biblical creed if you will of the GOSPEL. Excellent passage!
When we allow these verses to speak for themselves, there is indeed something to consider!
msn,
I appreciate the scriptural passages that you give though we do not agree upon one another’s interpretation; for the Word of God is the foundation from which all doctrines must derive.
1Corinthians 11:2 – “Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I DELIVERED them to you.” This text is speaking of “ordinances” which Paul ALREADY DELIVERED; he goes on to explain these ordinances– rules for divine worship and the Lord’s Supper.
1Thessalonians 2:15 - – The first thing we note is that this is a command to stand firm and hold fast to a SINGLE BODY OF TRADITIONS ALREADY DELIVERED TO THE BELIEVERS. There is nothing FUTURE about this passage at all. Does Paul say to stand firm and hold fast to traditions that WILL BE delivered? Does he say to hold on to interpretations and understandings that have not yet developed? NO, this oral teaching which he refers to has ALREADY BEEN delivered to the entire church, not just to the episcopate, not just to the bishops, but to EVERYONE in the Church at Thessalonica.
2Thessalonians 3:6 – This evidently refers to the orders contained in the first epistle; and that first epistle was the tradition which they had received from him. It was, therefore, no unwritten word, no uncertain saying, handed about from one to another; but a part of the revelation which God had given, and which they found in the body of his epistle. These are the only traditions which the Church of God is called to regard. The “OF US” refers to the apostles and what they had ALREADY DELIEVERED; not to anything future.
John 21:25 – The language here is hyperbolic, but effectively serves to emphasis the vastness of the words and works of Jesus; nothing more, nothing less.
2Timothy 1:13 – The WORDS that Paul elaborates upon can be seen throughout his epistles; nothing in his epistles speak of the list of unbiblical traditions that I listed before. In the same book Paul commends Timothy to scripture:
“And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” 2Timothy 15, 16. WHERE CAN YOU FIND THE SAME LANGUAGE FOR TRADITION?
Online,
No, I am not surprised to find articles that do not portray your church in a negative light; we are living in age ecumenicalism and political correctness has become the doctrine of the day...well it was either that response or your end times usual quote. Geez no articles and now you don't even have your coveted thumbs up majority that you cling to. Please don't read any further because what I'm about to write will upset you even further. Good things sometimes happen in 3s and I was wondering who the third was going to be for converts last year - Tony Blair, the President of the Evangelical Theological Society, and msnchris. Welcome home...Rome sweet Rome. Just remember Online I told you to not read any further.
St. Catharine of Genoa on Purgatory
The souls in Purgatory are entirely conformed to the will of God; therefore, they correspond with His goodness, are contented with all that He ordains, and are entirely purified from the guilt of their sins. They are pure from sins because they have in this life abhorred them and confessed them with true contrition; and for this reason God remits their guilt, so that only the stains of sin remain, and these must be devoured by the fire. (Purgatory: Doctrinal, Historical and Poetical, by Mrs. J. Sadlier. Imprimatur: Michael Augustine, Archbishop of New York. Copyright, 1886. K. A. Sadlier.)
Such a belief implies that the blood of Christ is insufficient in its washing away of sin and thus, fire is also needed. I disagree (with scriptural backing) with any belief that diminishes the blood of Christ, which is perfect in not only washing away sin, but any stain also.
“And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood…” (Rev 1:5).
WKB,
Brother in Christ, I crossed the Tiber to the Catholic Church quite a few years ago after being a Protestant minister in the Calvinist and Baptist TRADITIONS for 20 years. I learned a great deal from wonderful Christ filled Christians in these churches who I still have deep relationships with today. Coming to the Catholic Church is like coming home. The feeling is amazing and the first time I walked down the isle to receive the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist was a life changing experience. Being Catholic makes me feel like when I was born again, but I get this feeling everday when I go to Mass. What a life, eh?
As you begin your journey, pray a lot. Here are some good steps; contact a local Catholic parish, introduce yourself, get into a RCIA class(This is a wonderful class to learn about the faith and it takes about a year before you are accepted into the Church) and it is worth it! The Rosary was such a surprise to me too! IT IS ALL SCRIPTURE!
May God bless your journey to the Fullness of God's Truth. Here are some websites; www.catholic.com www.chnetwork.org www.catholicbridge.com
1 Cor 11:2 "Hold fast to the Traditions I have handed to you"
1 Thess 2:15 " Hold fast to these Traditons, whether ORAL or Letter."
2 Thess 3:6 " Shun those acting not according to Tradition."
Jn 21:25 -not everything Jesus said was written down in Scripture
2Tim 1:13 "follow my sound WORDS; guard the Truth."
2Tim 2:2 "What you have heard, trust to faithful men."
2 Pet 1:20 "No Prophesy is a matter of private interpretation"
Rom 10:17 "Faith comes from what is HEARD"
1Cor 15:1-2 "Being saved if you hold fast to the Word I PREACHED."
St. Athanasius, 360 AD, ".let us note that the very tradtion, teaching, and faith of the Catholic Church from teh beginning, which teh Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded; and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer out to be called a Christian..." Four Letters to Serapion of Thmius 1, 28
Origin 230 Ad
"The Teaching of the Church has indeed been handed down through an order of succession from the Apostles, and remains in the Churches even to the present time. That alone is to be believed as the Truth which is in no way at variance with ecclesiastical and apostolic Traditon."
Fundamental Doctrines 1, 2.
Something to consider, eh? Our Rituals come from Apostles and their chosen leaders, so I think we'll keep them.
wkb,
You are at liberty to do so; be sure your focus is on Christ Jesus and his promises rather than the rituals and traditions of men.
Online
I have never been as convinced as I am after reading your remarks that I should finalize my decision to join the Catholic Church.
taj,
The real difference is this; the Word of God teaches one thing and your religion teaches dogmas that not only contradict scripture but they are not even found in scripture. I will stick with God's Word.
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you - Deuteronomy 4:2.
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar - Proverbs 30:6
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book - Revelation 22:18, 19.
That's a big difference between you and I: you see scripture and the Church as two separate entities, but I believe that Jesus wanted Peter to start the Church and to have it connected to scripture. In the Catholic Church I have both Church + Word of God. Am I surprised that someone like you has left churches and now downgrades the importance of the Church? no.
Taj,
Are you surprised that you haven't found any articles agreeing with your "majority" perspective??
No, I am not surprised to find articles that do not portray your church in a negative light; we are living in age ecumenicalism and political correctness has become the doctrine of the day.
1Peter 4:6 –
Peter did not imply that the gospel was then preached to the souls of the dead, as you teach. He said the gospel “was preached” to those who “are [now] dead.” The preaching was done while they were still alive, and they will be judged on the basis of how they lived “according to men I the flesh,” or while they were still alive. Peter is undoubtedly talking about the Christian dead, because he refers to their living again “according to God [as God lives] in the spirit.” In other words, they will receive immortality in the resurrection and will have a life that measures with the life of God.
As far as the 50,000 + denominations that you continually refer to; as I have mentioned before, all the conservative Protestant Churches agree on the essentials of salvation – salvation through Christ alone, through God’s grace alone, through faith alone, and revealed by God’s Word alone. I have many friends who attend Lutheran, Adventist, Pentecostal, Baptist, Nazarene, Community, Non-Denominational, Calvary Chapel, Cornerstone – Churches who ALL subscribe to these essentials. So you are incorrect in your assumption that Protestants are divided on these issues. What really matters are these issues that directly affect one’s salvation. I am sure you can attest to Liberal and Conservative members within your own church that do not agree on everything despite the Churches official stance. So, again, denominational name tags are really a secondary issue in light of SALVATION.
Our continual debates and disagreements are all centered on this issue; TRUTH! Is it the Word of God or the Word of God + the commandments of men? This is the heart of our discussions. Is the final authority the church or the Word of God? These are the core issues that compel us to lock horns.
continued:
Romans 5:15 – says, “But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Romans 5:18 - Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord – Romans 6:23.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast – Ephesians 2:8, 9.
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and WASHED us FROM our sins in his own BLOOD, - Revelation 1:5.
By the which will we are SANCTIFIED through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE for ALL – Hebrews 10:10.
In whom we have redemption through his BLOOD, even the forgiveness of sins: - Colossians 1:14.
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself PURGED our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: - Hebrews 1:3.
And such were some of you: but ye are WASHED, but ye are SANCTIFIED, but ye are JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God – 1Corinthians 6:11.
msn,
1John 5:16-17 - this passage cannot be used to support the concept of purgatory; you said that we can “clearly see the doctrine”, may I ask where? I keep receiving passages that are being use to “imply” the concept of purgatory but there are no verses throughout scripture that speak of a “place” where departed souls go to be cleansed. You also said, “That mortal sin will kill the grace”; the only reference to an unforgiving sin is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit – Matthew 12:21. “But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: - Romans 5:20, that is, grace was poured so plentifully from heaven that it did not only counterbalance sin, but beyond this it surpassed it.
1Corinthians 3:14-15 – We have already touched upon this passage; you are right when you say the “word” trinity is not found in scripture, however, the scripture “objectively” speak of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit on numerous occasions. This is not the case with the concept of purgatory; it is a “subjective” concept which is not explicitly mentioned in scripture.
2Timothy 1:16-18 – this verse and scripture as a whole does not speak of “flames” that “purges souls” before entering heaven. The scriptures speak of heaven and hell numerous times but never speak of a “place” where disembodied souls go for cleansing.
1Peter 4:6 & Revelation 21:27 – We have already covered these passages in detail. I have already given you a response for the interpretation that you gave these verses. See my previous post.
You use Luke 12:59 to imply that we must “pay” for our sin. This fly’s in direct opposition to the fact the “salvation” is a “free gift” to be received by “faith”. Consider the following passages -
As for purgatory,
You are right with your biblical verses msnchris, and I'd even add one: The Church doesn’t exclude the possibility that purgatory could be an instantaneous purification, but there are indications in the Bible that souls do exist in some state that is neither heaven nor hell. Look at 1 Peter 3:19–20. These verses show Jesus preaching to "to the spirits in prison." The "prison" cannot be heaven, because the people there do not need to have the Gospel preached to them. It cannot be hell, because the souls in hell cannot repent. It must be something else. As you can see, there is nothing unbiblical about the claim that those who have died might not immediately go to heaven or to hell.
What is always interesting is at the beginning the protestant will start by stating something like: you can't find that in scripture and then when you show them they want to argue about it...so there is scriptural proof they just have a different interpretation. Which leads us always back to the original question: should we trust the 50,000+ denominations with roots to the protestant reformation or the 1 Catholic Church with roots to the apostles??
Online,
I'm not the one who stated I was in the majority. Am I surprised that people disagree with the Catholic Church on an anonymous comment board? no. Are you surprised that you haven't found any articles agreeing with your "majority" perspective??
St. Catharine of Genoa on Purgatory
“…she comprehended in her own soul the condition of the souls of the faithful in Purgatory, where they are purified from the rust and stain of sins, from which they have not been cleansed in this world.” (Purgatory: Doctrinal, Historical and Poetical, by Mrs. J. Sadlier. Imprimatur: Michael Augustine, Archbishop of New York. Copyright, 1886. K. A. Sadlier.)
I would have to disagree with Catharine’s view concerning purgatory, especially under the lens of scriptural authority: “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from ALL sin” (1Jn 1:7).
To believe in purgatory, one must eventually admit that according to such a belief, the blood of Christ and His finished work on the cross is insufficient and limited for the born-again believer. Moreover, to offer someone (who is not walking in the light) the possibility to atone for his or her sins is woefully wrong.
Online,
1Peter 4:6 It is true that heaven and hell are the only two eternal designations for the human soul. However, here Peter says that Jesus preached to the dead who could not have been in heaven since heaven had yet to be opened and it could not have been hell since those in hell would not benefit from hearing the word of God. Therefore, logic dictates that there is a third place. Catholics call it purgatory; where our selfishness and prideful natures are purged from our sould before entering heaven. This purgation is a gift from God, and only Christ's merit on the Cross gives us this blessing of purification.
This doctrine of Purgatory not only DOESNT deny Christ sufficiency, but it tells us how that sufficiency actually works. It shows the almighty power and love of God and that by our own merit we can do nothing and that Purgatory is another sign of God's love to His saved ones by His one time death for our sins.
Revelation 21:27 This verse shows the logical necessity for purification(Purgatory). We are all sinners and will require God's mercy to enter heaven. Even though we may be forgiven. for our sins, there is still a price to pay; "I tell you, you will never get out untinl you have paid the very last copper penny." LUKE 12:59. To stand before God, we must be perfect and pure in every way. Even the smallest "white" lie will require purification prior to our entry into heaven.
AGAIN, this purification is merited by Christ salvivic work on the CROSS ALONE!
Also, the early Church always taught that there will be a purification.
Saint Augustine:396 ad
"And it is not impossible that something of the same kind may take place even after this life. It is a matter that may be inquired into, and either ascertained or left doubltful, whether some believers shall pass through a kind of PURGATORIAL FIRE, and in proportion as they have loved with more or less devotion the good that perish, be less or more quickly delivered from it."
"During the time, moreover, whihc intervenes between a man's death and the final resurrrection, the sould dwells in a hidden retreat, where ti enjoys rest or suffers affliction just in proportion to the merit it has earned by the life which it led on Earth."
"Nor can it be denied that the souls of the dead are benefitted by the piety of their living friends, who offer the sacrifice of the Mediator, or give alms in the Church on their behalf. But these services are of andvantage only to those who during their lives have earned such merit, that services of this kind can help them. for there is a manner of life which is neither so good as not to require these services after death, nor so bad that such services are of no avail after death.
Enjoy.
ONline,
1John 5:16-17, Mortal and venial sins are biblical. John identified two types of sin in this verse. He distinguishes the difference between the varrying degrees of sin. Some sins are deadly(mortal) and will kill the grace required for our salvation. Venial sin(not mortal)is still sin and is also an offence against God, however it is not considered deadly.
1Corinthians 3:14-15. The word Purgatory is not in the Bible like the word Trinity or Incarnation, but we can clearly see the doctrine. This verse is a reference to the suffering one must undergo for purification. Since the Bible doesn't name this third place, the Catholic Church gave it a name for the purpose of discussion. Similarly, the Catholic Church also gave names to the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Hypostatic Union, etc. PUrgatory is the final purification for one who is already saved but not purified to immediately enter heaven where nothing impure can enter.
2 Tim 1:16-18 Why would Paul ask God to grant His mercy to someone who is already dead if he knew his prayers would not benefit the dead person???? Paul knew his prayers WOULD benefit the dead Onesiphorus. Those who are dead need our prayers just as we need theirs. Only God knows who is in purgatory but this shouldn't prevent us from praying for the deceased family, friends, etc. Thsoe in heaven and hell do not benefit from our prayers but God disposes and distributes our prayerful intentions according to His divine will.
Enjoy these.
correction:
. . . what you want to hear.
Steen,
Well said!
Taj,
You still do not understand my original point that I was making; I am referring to those who posts “comments” here on the CP not articles. Slow down a bit a read what I am saying instead reading what you want to here. I do not have more than one user name here; perhaps there are others here who truly disagree with you, could it be? It seems your focus is on me rather than demonstrating your claims from scripture. I guess it is easier to for you to try to distort my character than to prove Rome’s dogmas are biblical.
Online,
You continually believe you belong to the majority here, so let's test this theory:
Can you please direct me to an anti-Pope, anti-Catholic or even an article that doesn't view Catholicism as Christian???
Can you please direct me to an article that supports your point of view?? I mean this is a pro-Pope article and I can find you MANY more, I can find you Pro-Catholic articles and articles that clearly state that Catholicism is Christian. Please show me all your majority articles because you believe that your thinking is in the majority here....PROVE IT!
HAHAHAHA ...Online..YOU COULDN'T DO IT!!!! So what should I be impressed with? That some people might have 2 or more names and post the same stuff but make it seem like it is more than 1 person or the whole thumbs up/down thing?? Would you like me to give myself a lot of thumbs up to show you how "accurate" it is??? So let me get this straight I can prove my side by referring to the CP and its writers and you are basing your side on anonymous people who post on comment boards....sad, but then again I think a lot of your comments are sad.
The judgement you spoke of prior to entering Heaven is in Revelation 14. "Fear God and give Him glory for the hour of His Judgement is come." It does not involve burning people in Purgatory, but involves Christ Jesus, our High Priest, blotting out our sins. When this judgement is over, Jesus will return to ressurect the righteous and take them to Heaven. Jesus said that He is going to prepare a place for us, and if he goes and prepares a place for us, He will come again and receive us to himself so that where He is, we can be there also. See John 14. so you are right about a judgement before entering Heaven. Look up to Jesus and live. He ever liveth to make intercession for us.
Taj,
If you read my post correctly, you would have understood that I was referring to those who actually post comments here on the CP. Most do not accept Catholicism’s claims nor do they accept your comments reiterating those same claims. Go back and read all the posts here; first of all I was speaking with msn when you jumped into the discussion. He posted a challenge – “Show me one CAtholic Doctrine that isn't explicitly or implicitly in Scripture.” I merely responded to it.
So quoting scripture and highlighting those things (dogmas) which contradict scripture is an act of tearing down? Hmmm. . . . Not everyone here would agree with that. Proclaiming God’s Word does cut sometimes, seeing that it is sharper than a double edge sword – Hebrews 4: 12. Have we not been told to “contend” for the faith (Jude 1:3), “reprove” darkness (Ephesians 5:11), and “believe not” every spirit, but “try” the spirits whether they are of God (1John 4:1).
As I mentioned earlier; the burden of proof rests upon the one making the claim. If you, I, or anyone else makes a claim; then we should be prepared to demonstrate our position or claim instead of dismissing or attacking those who disagree with us. Examine some of your own past comments about Protestantism and consider their nature before sitting there and judging someone else’s motives.
Just to show how much a "majority" you represent read the last line of this article by a CP writer...II guess this writer must fall into your minority group.
Online,
This is so typical you don't try to build up you try to tear down. The article which uses the following statement: "The pope I have seen for the past three years is the Joseph Ratzinger I have known for 20 – a holy and brilliant priest who knows who he is, a master teacher with remarkable skill in explaining complex Christian doctrines and a quite winsome public personality." Obviously shows the Pope in a very positive way, like many other articles on the CP. However, your contention is that "the majority of believers here on this post disagree with your claims as well". REALLY? Can you please direct me to an anti-Pope article here on the CP? Nope you can't which merely highlights what I continue to express you do not represent the majority of believers here as you contend. You don't even believe that Catholicism is Christian which many articles by CP writers clearly state it is, but somehow you represent a majority.
msn,
Purgatory remains a figment of your imagination my friend; the passages that you posted do not support this dogma. Where is it? There are millions of Protestants who deny this superstitious dogma. You can continue to appeal to the church fathers that have often contradicted themselves and mixed Christian doctrine with Gnosticism as much as you please but I will continue to appeal to the Word of God. My Lutheran friends that I see every week do not accept purgatory; that could be said of all conservative Protestants.
It is interesting that you posted this challenge - “Show me one CAtholic Doctrine that isn't explicitly or implicitly in Scripture.”
You were given a several unbiblical dogmas that Rome teaches and you could not or did not want to elaborate on. When given a scriptural rebuttal, you became unglued; why is that? Did not Peter say, “We ought to obey God rather than men”? – Acts 5:29. Bottom line; purgatory does not exist and it denies the sufficiency of Christ’s atoning sacrifice.
ONline,
Thanks for putting your personal spin on all these passages. I wouldn't expect anything less from you. You were first Catholic, then Seventh day Adventists and now who knows what you are? By the way the majority of people who started the Seventh day adventist movement also help start Mormonism and Jehovah Witnesses. What a group.
At least if someone left the Catholic Church, like Lutherans or Anglicans they were still Christians. Knowing you, you probably don't think Lutherans or Anglicans are Christians do you? Or how about the Orthodox or Assyrian Christians or Chaldean Christians? The Majority of Christians agree with my view, not yours.
What is interesting about all your discussions that you probably spent all night awake trying to come up with stuff, and the fact that historical Christianity doesn't agree with you should make you feel a little uneasy, but it won't.
Now, how do you like that? Historical Christianity you will find agrees with the idea of our attachments of sin being purged from us. Purgatory is not a second chance. You live, you die, then heaven or hell. Purgatory for some Protestants is called the Judgement seat of Christ. Many Protestants do believe that you don 't just go to heaven. You are judged and that judgement is the fire like love of God. You see nothing unclean can enter Heaven, and Jesus already died on the cross and by having faith in Him and by His Grace you will be saved. However, you have spent your whole life sinning after you accepted him and were baptized and so this purgation is necessary. You don't go to dinner after playing outside all day without taking a shower or cleaning up a bit before you sit at the dinner table.
Since we persist in sin, God must purge us and clean us at the Judgement seat of Christ.
You will find that my interpretation isn't mine at all, it comes from the Earliest Fathers of the Church. Your interpretation is your interpretation and it is a new one.
Taj,
It seems that you are more interested in where I have been than defending your claims from scripture. The majority of believers here on this post disagree with your claims as well; will you then say that they are using their own personal interpretations? I think not; they disagree with you because they know the Word of God and they know what your church teaches. Again, I am concerned with God’s truth as it is explicitly declared in scripture; everyone’s claims and doctrines must be examined in light of God's Word. I am not here for the praise of men or for a popularity contest. I am sorry if you feel that you have been personally attacked but this has never been my intention; I am proclaiming the truths of God’s Word and others here are doing the same.
You can't debate anybody who thinks that they know everything. You believe that your interpretations are correct - thus you left the Catholic Church then the Seventh Day Adventist and now you are non - denominational. You quote the bible however you see fit and point out the errors, as you see them in the Catholic Church. Thus, a person is left with choosing Online4Him's interpretations or the Catholic Church's 2000 years of interpretation that can be traced back to the apostles....hmmmm tough choice.
continued:
To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin, or sins committed before salvation, is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must in any sense pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins – that indicates Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.
You said, “The other ones after that are not backed up by any evidence so I will not answer them since they seem like conjecture.”
I do not know how long you have been in the Catholic Church but you need to do a little more research to discover that “the other ones” are taught by your church. Hopefully, you did not twist and distort the scriptures while you were a Calvinist and Baptist Minister.
msnchris70,
I will ignore your introductory pleasantries and address the passages that you posted.
1Corinthians 3:13-15 –
These passages are speaking of a man’s “work or foundation” on which he builds; how can you equate a man’s “work” with his soul? In essence, these passage are describing a man building upon the foundation (Christ Jesus – 1Cor. 3:11) and saying if any one build gold, silver, costly stones - Three sorts of materials which will bear the fire; true and solid doctrines and character. The wood, hay, and stubble which will not bear the fire; such are all doctrines, ceremonies, and forms of human invention; all but the substantial, vital truths of Christianity. Again, all three verses (13-15) speak of his work that is being built upon the foundation (Christ). These passages speak nothing of an intermediate state in which one goes to be “purged” from sin. Where does scripture speak of such a “PLACE”?
1Peter 4:6 –
Peter did not imply that the gospel was then preached to the souls of the dead, as you teach. He said the gospel “was preached” to those who “are [now] dead.” The preaching was done while they were still alive, and they will be judged on the basis of how they lived “according to men I the flesh,” or while they were still alive. Peter is undoubtedly talking about the Christian dead, because he refers to their living again “according to God [as God lives] in the spirit.” In other words, they will receive immortality in the resurrection and will have a life that measures with the life of God.
2Timothy 1:16-18 –
I don’t know how you make the connection here? There is absolutely nothing here that describes a “place” where souls go to after death to be “purged.”
Revelation 21:27 –
The wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God – 1Corinthians 6:9 & Galatians 5:21; these passages are all saying the same thing. Revelation 21:27 cannot be used to support Purgatory.
The very idea of Purgatory, and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) all fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1, 14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2).
Thanks Taj.
You can just feel his hatred for his past Church. A lot of people from a lot of denominiations who are angry and anti-whatever tend to have deep seated emotions coming from somewhere else. Many were abused or didin't have both parents or something. I'll just pray for online. Many fundamentalists, who are a very loud and annoying but small group, are not tolerant of others.
Here is his stuff:
I am glad that you asked, here is a sample of how the RCC has “invented” and proclaimed UNBIBLICAL TRADITIONS that Jesus nor the apostles taught!
593-Purgatory (1COR 3:15, 1 PET 3:18-20;4;6, 2Tim 1:16-18, Rev 21:27 You will see that these Scriptures support a Judgement time before you enter into Heaven. Purgatory is a fairly new word, but it describes the loving fire of God that cleanses us from our attachments to sin before we enter the kingdom., The other ones after that are not backed up by any evidence so I will not answer them since they seem like conjecture.
Get some counseling.
taj,
Why do you get upset when others disagree with you? When claims are made; the burden of proof rests on the one making the claim! You have made explicit claims regarding your church and I have given you rebuttals to consider; but you continue to use words like, attack, bizarre, and extreme to avoid my rebuttals. Have we not been told to “contend” for the faith (Jude 1:3), “reprove” darkness (Ephesians 5:11), and “believe not” every spirit, but “try” the spirits whether they are of God (1John 4:1). We need to differentiate between passionately disagreeing about matters of faith and condemning those whom we disagree with. Let us debate the issues without making or taking things personal.
taj,
Glad to see you "pop" in and out from time to time; instead of attacking the messenger, why not address the content of my posts themselves; in other words give me a sound rebuttal instead of running off all the time.
MSNChris, just to let you know Online is a former Catholic/ Seventh Day Adventist who posts on articles concerning the Catholic faith just to spout his anti-Catholicism. The bottom line is the bible didn't drop out of the sky during the protestant reformation, I guess the early Christians were wrong to follow the Catholic Church, and when people like the President of the Evangelical Society last year start studying the early Church Fathers they often convert to Catholicism - that is the reason he gave for converting last year.
msnchris70,
I am glad that you asked, here is a sample of how the RCC has “invented” and proclaimed UNBIBLICAL TRADITIONS that Jesus nor the apostles taught!
593-Purgatory, 754-Temporal Power, 847-Decretals of Isidore (a forgery), 858-Donation of Constantine (another forgery),
1075-Greatest mass divorce in history forced upon clergy by Gregory VII, 1100-Money
for Masses, 1184-Inquisition, 1190-Sale of Indulgences, 1215 Transubstantiation,
1226-Adoration of Host, 1303-Papal Bull Unam Sanctam, 1415-Cup denied to laymen by the Council of Constance, 1545-Council of Trent-Rome turns finally from authority of God’s Word to authority of tradition.
Tradition made equal in authority to Bible. Justification by faith condemned, 1600-The invention of Scapulars, 1854-Immaculate Conception, 1864-Seperation of Church and State Condemned, 1870-Papal Infallibility,
1908-Papal decree invalidating mixed marriages not performed by a Roman priest, 1950-Assumption of Mary.
“That is why I left being a former Calvinist/Baptist minister of twenty years to become Catholic.”
That is interesting to say the least; however, it seems that you have traded in the gospel for a system that continues to teach extra-biblical dogmas that neither Christ nor his apostles taught. You claim that Peter was the rock but scripture categorically proclaims that Jesus Christ is the rock on which the church would be built-
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed –Romans 9:23.
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ – 1Corinthians 10:4.
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed – 1Peter 2:8
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; - Ephesians 2:20.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body – Ephesians 5:23.
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence – Colossians 1:18.
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”-1Timothy 2:5.
So, your claim that Rome is the only way is a fallacy. You say – “if you stay outside the Catholic Church then you are saying openly that the Catholic Church is apostate. . .” I have no qualms with saying that Rome is an apostate system which has a history of subverting liberty wherever they have found themselves to be in the majority.
Finally, Cardinal Henry Newman, a former Anglican Priest; he is one of many who adopted and promoted the false view of “Futurism” which was invented to give an alternative perspective on eschatology. This new dogma was passed down by Francisco Ribera, Robert Bellarmine, Dr. Samuel Roffey Maitland, James H. Todd, JOHN HENRY NEWMAN, Edward Irving, John Nelson Darby, Cyrus Ingerson Scofield, Hal Lindsey, and is currently being promoted by Time La Haye and Jerry Jenkins through the “Left Behind Series”. I do not believe Newman to be a credible witness. By the way, the first century Church was not Catholic as you claim.
This truly is an ecumenical Blog when even fundamentalists like Topekan can have a say!
The next time you open your Bible, say a prayer and Thank God that the New Testament you have is there for you to read because of the Catholic Church deciding what books went in to it in the 4th Century, and protected that Bible for 2000 years.
1Tim 3:15 "The Church is the bulwark and foundation of Truth." Remember, Jesus never said to write anything down. Jesus gave His power to Apostles and those Apostles were inspired by God the Holy Spirit to write down Jesus' words. The Church created the Bible, not the other way around brother.
Just so you know, after studying Catholicism and being a former Calvinist and Baptist Minister myself who was taught by my parents and ministers to be anti-Catholic, I couldn't find one Catholic belief that contradicts Scripture. Show me one CAtholic Doctrine that isn't explicitly or implicitly in Scripture.
The Pope is infallible in faith and morals when he speaks from the official Chair of Peter. He has done this maybe a dozen times in 2000 years. The word infallibility is not in the Bible, but either is the word Trinity. When Jesus said to Peter he would give him the Key of the Kingdom of Heaven, this is a role as Prime Minister. Jesus then promised to Peter that the Holy Spirit would lead him into ALL TRUTH and the gates of Hell would never prevail against it. So, Jesus was speaking to Peter and NOT YOU!!! When Jesus said he would have the Holy Spirit lead him into all truth this is INFALLIBILITY! DUH. Didn't the Holy Spirit make all the writers of the New Testament like Peter, Paul, James, Jude, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc all infallible when they wrote the Bible? Then why is it so hard to believe that the Pope after 2000 years has never made a mistake on faith and morals?
You obviously don't have much faith do you? You have enough faith that Jesus can rise from the dead, but you don't believe that he can change bread into his Body? You believe that he died for your sins, but you don't believe that he can give the power of forgiving sins to men? You believe the Jesus is our sole mediator, but you throw His mother under the truck and you don't call her blessed as it says to in Scripture and you don't honor and love her like Jesus did himself.
What you lack is faith.
I am not a catholic, but I do beleive in the saving power of Jesus Christ. This pope has an awesome oppurtunity to give catholics and the christian faith, a much needed shot in the arm. I am excited to see what is to come out of this youth rally in paticular. Time will tell.
Amen Topekan, you hit the nail on the head indeed, IN JESUS NAME
The Roman Catholic Church is unabashedly non-biblical in their beliefs. Their elevation of Mary as co-redemptrix coupled with the requirements of doing time in purgatory makes hash of the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice as atonement for sin. I'll have great respect for Pope Benedict the day he comes out and infallably (another non-biblical concept) decrees that only what is in the bible is true, and the traditions of men are only valid so long as they agree with scripture.
I'm not a Catholic but I love this Pope. He seems a truly decent and godly man. I bought his book on Jesus ("Jesus of Nazareth") and it was one of the most amazing reads I've ever had, even with some of his Catholic specific theology involved, the book is fantastic and I was enthralled from the Introduction. It's an amazing book that I highly recommend to every Christian, not just Catholics.
We are so excited for the Holy Father's trip to the USA. May all the Liberal Moral And Theological Relativist be put on notice. Moral and Theological relativism is a disease that began in the 60's and will end soon. Orthodoxy is coming back and the Catholic Church will lead the Charge. Christ is our Hope! Christ is the Only way, the only Truth and the only life!!