The participation of emergent church leaders in an interfaith dialogue raised flags for some conservative Christians who have been concerned over a growing cooperation of emergent church leaders with New Spirituality/New Age leaders.
Prior to Tuesday's InterSpirituality Day panel discussions, hosted by Seeds of Compassion, Christian talk show host Ingrid Schlueter of Crosstalk Radio warned the public that emergent leaders Rob Bell of Mars Hill Bible Church and Doug Pagitt of Solomon's Porch would promote universalism.
The panel included various Christian leaders, a Muslim scholar, a Sikh, and the Dalai Lama, among others, who spoke on compassion and spirituality.
Held in one of the most unchurched cities in the country – Seattle – the dialogue drew over 7,000 people who heard the diverse panel speak about nurturing compassion in a religiously pluralistic world.
"We say we are created by one god. We say we are all the human family. That makes us interdependent. That is the basis of compassion because it is the basis of the morality of the world," said Sister Joan Chittister, a Benedictine Catholic nun.
Young adults posed questions to the religious leaders about overcoming anger, interfaith dialogue, and how spirituality can be a catalyst for compassion and not destruction.
While each religious leader alluded to their personal faith, from Buddhism to Christianity, there was little emphasis on their core beliefs and more talk on spiritual connectedness and the universality of being compassionate – a dialogue that seemed appropriate in a city where many say they are "spiritual" but not necessarily religious.
"When somebody wrongs you ... there is, next to revenge, another option – which is not to hand back the pain; which means, you're going to have to bear that pain,” said Bell, also a best-selling author.
"It is going to feel like a death, but it is going to lead to a resurrection. It is going to feel like a Friday but a Sunday is going to come," he added. "That is what changes the world - when somebody chooses not to hand it back."
Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries, which claims to specialize in apologetics and be rooted in orthodox Christian theology, wasn't pleased with Bell's response, saying he did not give a "Christian answer" and avoided mentioning Jesus Christ.
Others weren't surprised Bell and Pagitt joined the interfaith event.
"They teach that you really can't understand the Bible, nor are you supposed to. Rather you need to experience it; it's not what God says, but how you feel about it; its content is to be received really subjectively or experientially." McMahon told OneNewsNow, adding that such teaching essentially rejects the authority of the Bible. "They believe that preaching or teaching Bible doctrines is too authoritarian, so they turn to conversation ... about the Bible – and [in many emergent churches] that replaces teaching from the pulpit."
Some young adults expressed concern over interfaith dialogue and the blurring of faith convictions.
"How can interfaith dialogue nourish compassion without the fear of losing one's religious identity?" one young adult posed to the panel on Tuesday.
Dr. Ingrid Mattson, president of the Islamic Society of North America, believes it would have been in God's power to make everyone the same. But "God created religious pluralism for a reason," she said, "so we can strive as in a race towards goodness."
Anglican Archbishop Desmond Tutu stated, "All of us who are Christian seek to be inspired by the example of our Lord. How frequently in the gospels do we hear Jesus had compassion?"
"You do not need to be Muslim to be compassionate. You don't need to be a Christian to be a compassionate person," he added. But Tutu pointed out that each person has a purpose in this world as he applauded those who are making the world a better place through compassion works.
"Are you in this world by yourself or is there a purpose by which God made [you]?"
The Dalai Lama said he believes there are different religions so people can find the one that best suits them. "I think everyone, ultimately, deep inside [has] some kind of goodness," he said.
On another note, the Dalai Lama left young people with this message: "Whether we accept religion or not, [it's] up to the individual. [But] once we accept, be serious, sincere."
Seeds of Compassion held a five-day gathering that drew about 144,000 people. The event concluded Tuesday.
RSS
"Understanding" the Times and Apprising.org are not accurate or dependable sources of information. Since the writers are unable (ignorant) or unwilling (deceptive) to distinguish the differences between emerging and Emergent, they are not reliable on this. They have no understanding nor are they able to apprise people of the truth on the church or the newer trends inside and outside the church.
As for the Emergent church, one is hard pressed to find a live soul in the leadership (and much of the congregations).
Grace and Peace,
Jim
The Emerging Church: Last Days Apostasy and a Return To Darkness" - found at: http://www.understandthetimes.org/commentary/c29.shtml
"How to Know When the Emerging Church Shows Signs of Emerging in Your Church" - found at: http://www.understandthetimes.org/commentary/c54.shtml
"The Inclusive Gospel" - found at: http://www.understandthetimes.org/commentary/c66.shtml
Roger Oakland has an international missionary outreach as well as a biblical apologetics ministry train and equip the Body of Christ into Sound Biblical Doctrine, and to encourage them to stay in the Word. There is another siter I want you to check out and read. it is www.apprising.org. Pastor Ken Silva has some pretty interesting things exposing the emerging church, and all it's proponents as well as Rick Warren. I'm not trying to be argumentative ok. I just believe that as the brethren in Cherist, we need to do the work of God God's way, and the Bible in it's whole context gives us the way to do it. When men take biblical principles and expound on them and create a "new doctrine" or a "new belief", or a "rethinking" that is apart from the whole counsel of God, then false doctrine and teachingss will set in, and they are destructive, because they teach a "form of truth", but when more carefully examined and discerned, they are exposed for what they are.
http://www.apprising.org/archives/rick_warren/index.html
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2007/06/robert_schuller_1.html
Again, I exhort you to study up a little bit more on this seeker-friendly/emergent church of derception and how the Warrens urpose Driven P.E.A.C.E Plan is really nothingmore than a way to unite all religions. The emergent church and Rick Warren are also very much advocates of Bono from U2, Oprah Winfrey, and the COEXIST Movement. If you know any thing about these, or have rtecently followed Bono in particular, you will see their ideas although appealing to the ears of men, they don't line up with what God says in His Word. Bono, endorses the "Message Remix" Paraphrase Bible Translation which has taken out words like homosexuality, nad just contemporarily translated them to the word lust, etc. What they stand for is more in line with what the new age, and unitarian beliefs teach; rather than what Biblical Christianity teaches. We are exhorted in the Scriptures to be like the Bereans who searched the Scriptures daily to see if what Paul the Apostle taught was true. I urge you to get acquainted with these movements, and then you yourself can ask questions when you hear a "Bible Teacher" teaching something that sounds like it may be ok because some truth is being taught, but you know something is quirky with it. I hope this helps you brother, and remember, the Word of God is not to be made relative. it is absolute in it's truth about Christ, and the Gospel Witness, and should not be watered down to bring in more hearers, or in this case, more "seekers"..
we must understand who GOD is by reading the bible . we must stop trying to mold GOD to our own ways and understanding
Blue,
As regards islam, Islam is a revealed religion and the way it was revealed must be made known, because there lays the key to understanding Islam. The following information can be easily accessed in the West with little effort and research.
When Mohammed was contacted by the spirit (Jibrail) in the cave he was convinced he had been contacted by a harmful (evil) spirit and returned very distressed to his wife Khadijah, who thought otherwise, and to reassure Mohammed, she took him to her cousin Waraqa ibn Naufal, who, allegedly, was "a very old man who knew the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians" and on this old man's OPINION , the spirit who had contacted Mohammed was declared as coming from God and that Mohammed was to become the Prophet of his people! (pages 10 and 11 of the introduction to the English translation of the Holy Quran by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall). If this old man really knew the Christian Scriptures he would have told Mohammed that he had been contacted by an evil spirit (as Mohammed had correctly thought when the spirit had first appeared to him) on the basis of the biblical teaching found in the New Testament in the letter to the Galatians 1:8 where it is stated ..."if an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached (Jesus' gospel) let him be eternally condemned"...
To be brief... the Koran was revealed by a false spirit (a demon) as the translator Marmaduke Pickthall so unwittingly gives testimony to in his introduction of the Holy Quran page 11, 3rd paragraph: "the words which came to him (Mohammed) when in a state of trance are held sacred by the Muslims and are never confounded with those which he uttered when no physical change was apparent in him. (during his trance, they covered mohammed with a sheet...do you know why?)
The former are the Sacred Book (the Koran); the latter the Hadith or Sunnah...” with the above statement Pickthall is confirming that the Koran was recited by Mohammed while in a state of trace or in other words under demonic possession. Consequently, it should not surprise us that when a person starts believing in the Koran, a demonic product, he turns evil. In the New Testament in the letter to the Ephesians 4:30 ..." God's Holy Spirit... gets rid of all bitterness, passion, anger... hateful feelings of any sort... instead makes you kind and tender hearted... forgiving one another... as God has forgiven you through Christ." This Spirit is not the spirit that leads practicing muslims to become suicide bombers .
As Christians in the West we have a great opportunity and obligation to lovingly approach our Muslim neighbours with the Good News of the true Jesus so that their eyes may be opened and step from darkness into light.
Blue,
As regards islam, Islam is a revealed religion and the way it was revealed must be made known, because there lays the key to understanding Islam. The following information can be easily accessed in the West with little effort and research.
When Mohammed was contacted by the spirit (Jibrail) in the cave he was convinced he had been contacted by a harmful (evil) spirit and returned very distressed to his wife Khadijah, who thought otherwise, and to reassure Mohammed, she took him to her cousin Waraqa ibn Naufal, who, allegedly, was "a very old man who knew the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians" and on this old man's OPINION , the spirit who had contacted Mohammed was declared as coming from God and that Mohammed was to become the Prophet of his people! (pages 10 and 11 of the introduction to the English translation of the Holy Quran by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall). If this old man really knew the Christian Scriptures he would have told Mohammed that he had been contacted by an evil spirit (as Mohammed had correctly thought when the spirit had first appeared to him) on the basis of the biblical teaching found in the New Testament in the letter to the Galatians 1:8 where it is stated ..."if an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached (Jesus' gospel) let him be eternally condemned"...
To be brief... the Koran was revealed by a false spirit (a demon) as the translator Marmaduke Pickthall so unwittingly gives testimony to in his introduction of the Holy Quran page 11, 3rd paragraph: "the words which came to him (Mohammed) when in a state of trance are held sacred by the Muslims and are never confounded with those which he uttered when no physical change was apparent in him. (during his trance, they covered mohammed with a sheet...do you know why?)
The former are the Sacred Book (the Koran); the latter the Hadith or Sunnah...” with the above statement Pickthall is confirming that the Koran was recited by Mohammed while in a state of trace or in other words under demonic possession. Consequently, it should not surprise us that when a person starts believing in the Koran, a demonic product, he turns evil. In the New Testament in the letter to the Ephesians 4:30 ..." God's Holy Spirit... gets rid of all bitterness, passion, anger... hateful feelings of any sort... instead makes you kind and tender hearted... forgiving one another... as God has forgiven you through Christ." This Spirit is not the spirit that leads practicing muslims to become suicide bombers .
As Christians in the West we have a great opportunity and obligation to lovingly approach our Muslim neighbours with the Good News of the true Jesus so that their eyes may be opened and step from darkness into light.
Dr. Ingrid Mattson, president of the Islamic Society of North America, believes it would have been in God's power to make everyone the same. But "God created religious pluralism for a reason," she said, "so we can strive as in a race towards goodness."
Now, for some reason her answer seemsmore reasonable than the groups and groups of Christians bickering all the time
This is evidence that we are smack dab in the middle of Revelations and we are witnessing the falling away of the Church. Repent before it is too late!
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
Examine yourselves to see if you be on the faith.
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
Sorry McMahon, I want to understand the bible, I want to live it's promises. Christ died so that all who believe could be forgiven and live a life with Christ. To serve. Youl can't experience something if you don't understand it. The only way to understand it, is so read and study it. For example, Skydiving? Don't just jump! So many confused people. Lead astray by false hopes and prophets. We as Christians have a job to do. Open their eyes to the truth before it's to late.
Christianity calls us to feed the poor, help the sick...etc, but that is not the center of Christianity. It is Christ. let us not be tempted into believing satans agenda.
The first temptation that Jesus faced: If you are the son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.....
Jesus answer was firm and enlightening: Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God....
Christian; preach the Word, preach Christ first...and do not compromise His message...we can only attain eternal life through Him and Him only. Do not be deceived...
The Emergent Church is nothing more than postmodernism cloaked in Christian garb. They are replacing the gospel of Jesus Christ for an all inclusive social gospel which seeks to undermine biblical Christianity. How in the world can “Christians” have an inter-faith dialogue with Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, and not share the gospel of Jesus Christ?
Yes, we are to love one another; that message has always been constant but this is not about love, it is about watering down the exclusive claims of Christianity. All religions, plainly and simply, cannot be true. Some beliefs are false and seek to undermine the claims of Jesus Christ – John 14:6. This is a battle for biblical truth that we are witnessing. Truth by definition excludes, it is absolute. Either Jesus is the only way or he is not.
Political Correctness, Postmodernism (cultural relativism), Textual Criticism, and Ecumenicalism are fast replacing the gospel of Jesus Christ in many circles throughout Christendom. Only those who are being led by the Holy Spirit and those who are scripturally grounded will be able to recognize and expose this movement for what it really is; modern day paganism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRSKU9_7BJQ
quecat
lady of guadalupe ........................ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Guadalupe
day of the dead..................................http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Dead
where in the explanations of either of these two does it say that jesus is not their lord and savior or dismiss what he did on the cross?
how is honoring those who passed before, against christ?
DRJ-
Interesting... do you believe that the Protestants who hang African Americans for the color of their skin are capable of seeing God?
Canadian-
First off... THOU SHALT KEEP HOLY THE SABBATH! Talk about not staying true to the word! You Protestants do not care at all about the sabbath! And listen... HOMOSEXUALITY ITSELF IS NO SIN! If you go into a guy's house, and enter him, THAT is a sin! Being homosexual isn't... doing it is... Temptation isn't the sin, giving in is.
It is very interesting that this was touted as a "Spiritual" interfaith meeting. Those words make up an authentic oxymoron! Jesus said that in order to even see the (spiritual) kingdom of God, one has to be born again of the Spirit. The meeting, therefore, only served to point out who was truly spiritual and who was incapable of seeing the kingdom of God.
Feet you've posited "that this present belief came from an immediate renunciation 300 years ago, of their old religion to the jesuits, to embrace the new religion of their conquerers and occupiers."
Are you perhaps referring to the Spanish Conquistador's so called bringing "Christianity" to South and Central America? This is a poor example, indeed, of legitimate evangelism. What the Spaniards brought was not biblical Christianity, but dogmatic man-made traditions of Catholicism.
What's more - these people in being subjugated by their invaders did not "embrace" the new faith so much as assimilated it to save their hides. By and large they have not repented of their false gods, they've merely changed the names. They've not stopped showing obeisance to idols, again they've simply opted for a new identity for their old gods.
This brand of Christianity, is in fact no such thing. It is a amalgamation of their ancient tribal gods, superstitions and beliefs in methods of 'appeasing the divine", with Christian names overlaid upon it.
The "Our Lady of Guadalupe" that is yet today so ubiquitously emblazoned on the back windows of cars, little statuettes of the "Virgin" taped to the dashboard, and those standing outside of their homes in the garden, are holdovers of ancient Aztec beliefs in the lunar water-mother goddess Tontantzin Cuahtlalpancihuateotl of whom the worship of, is deeply rooted in the substratum of Mexican culture.
Little wonder that these people give the local palm reader so much business. She touts herself as being a "Curandara". In their culture and form of "Christian" religion, she is, in effect, the local shamaness who purports to be able to cast evil spirits out of their homes, remove evil eye curses and tell them their future.
Does this sound like legitimate Christianity to you?
The Bible says:
"Deu 18:10-12 "There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the LORD:"
(continued below)
(continued from above)
No necromancy: activities performed with the intent of communicating with the dead.
hmmm -
Why then to Central American Catholics still celebrate the Day of the Dead? This event is the modernized version of the Aztec festival dedicated to a goddess called Mictecacihuatl wherein people will go to cemeteries to communicate with the souls of the departed on this day, building altars to dead relatives, offering them gifts of food and praying to them and asking for guidance.
Does this sound like Christianity to you?
There is no legitimate "evolving" of the faith! There is tainting it, twisting it, turning it into an outright lie, and stripping it of it's power to save.
Such forms of faith are not what was in mind when it was recorded in scripture:
Jud 1:3 "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all time delivered unto the saints."
You take issue with the expectation that "one completely renounce all connections to any other religion" ???
What does the Bible say?
2Cr 5:17 "Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Once again, your universalist tainted beliefs have led you astray.
quecat
you're point is that one has to completely renounce all connections to any other religion before one can legitimately believe and be part of christ.
you are dismissing 75% of the believers in the third world. i do not know of a third world culture that believes in christ without, in addition, holding onto some previous beliefs of a former religion.
do you think that this present belief came from an immediate renunciation 300 years ago, of their old religion to the jesuits, to embrace the new religion of their conquerers and occupiers.
or rather their faith evolved out of living it thru the grace of the holy spirit, to where they could fully embrace their faith in christ, not because it had been forced on them by their colonizers and conquerers, but because of the reality of christ witnessed in their daily lives.
in an environment such as africa, where there can be a possible a threat of death for even verbally even expressing, embracing a different religion, would you prefer mass slaughter to a gradual transformation of belief.
isaiah 42:
2 He will not shout or cry out,
or raise his voice in the streets.
3 A BRUISED REED he will not break,
and a SMOLDERING WICK he will not snuff out.
In faithfulness he will bring forth justice;
4 he will not falter or be discouraged
till he establishes justice on earth.
In his law the islands will put their hope."
Feet !!????
Are you serious? You are so far out in left field that you've left the ballpark!
You've implied that it's possible to worship the god of Islam (a works based religion) & be a Christian at the same time. You've implied that it's possible to regard Buddhist philosophy & be a Christian. FALSE! FALSE! FALSE! What does the Bible say?
Exd 20:3 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. "
Eph 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
Islam teaches that Jesus Christ was not divine but merely a prophet.
The Bible says:
1Ti 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
Islam teaches that there is no salvation outside of Islam:
"Those who "believe not in Allah and His Messenger (Mohammed), He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!" -Koran 48:13
But the Bible says:
Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other [than Jesus]: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Islam teaches that Allah has no son. "He begets not, nor he is begotten, and there is none like unto him." -Koran 112:3
But the Bible says"
1John 4:15 " Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. "
Allah and God the Father are NOT the same god!! To claim such is so is the identifying lie of universalism!
(continued below)
(continued from above)
Buddhists believe in reincarnation, a cycle of death and rebirth.
The Bible says:
Hbr 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the judgment."
Buddhists do not believe Jesus was divine.
But the Bible tells us:
Mat 16:15-17 "He (Jesus) saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."
Prayers and worship are offered to Buddhas, including use of images.
The Bible says:
Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God ."
Liberal Buddhism teaches there is either no god or many gods, the Bible teaches there is one God.
Matthew 4:10 - "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him ONLY shalt thou serve." We are not to worship many gods, nor any god other than Jehovah. [2 Cor 6:18; Col 1:19-22]
Buddhists believe that man must achieve the solution to his own problems over a period of many lives by human effort.
The gospel of Christ provides the ONLY true way to worship the ONLY true God. It provides a way for man to be forgiven by the death of the Son of God who paid the penalty for our sins.
Repent!
This doesn't have anything to do with the article at hand, but fornication is a sin in the Bible, whether homosexual or heterosexual in nature.
quetzal
you undoubtedly are new to these forums.
No one is hijacking this thread to "fire broadsides" against their favorite subject except Feetxxl.
Feetxxl appears on just about any and every forum that he can and attempts to maneuver the conversation around so that he can throw out his make-believe non-biblical jargon about how there is nothing in scripture that says that homosexuality is a sin.
Which naturally always evokes the response that any true bible believing Christian would give.
It's up to the Holy Spirit to deal with him now. Dozens of us have given him all the truth he needs. However, for now, his hardened and darkened heart persists in repeating his false doctrine in the event that he might find someone sympathetic to his cause.
terrier gal
one of the greatest evangelical messages i ever heard was when in one sitting k.j paul evamngelized 2 million gathered africans. he said "if you are an islamic stay an islamic, if you are a buddhist stay a buddhist, because believeing in christ is not a religion, its a relationship. he loves you and wants to live in your heart. let him comes in and touch the bitterness , anger, hatred and pain. he wants to heal you and make you whole."
the fact that the criticizers are reduced to putting labels on their brothers in christ with whom they share the same inheritance, means they have little to say.
since when was self empowerment contrary to the teachings in christ. it is merely identifying the tools that god has given us to deal with the issues our lives.
does not the mind and spirit work together.
as good stewarts are we not to us the tools god has given us?
terrier gal
try reading the whole comment
here's a good commentary on the Emerging Church
Emergent Church Spreading Spiritual Cancer
http://www.opinioneditorials.com/freedomwriters/mwest_20080418.html
Ms Audrey Barrick, FYI these people have been raising red flags for a LONG time. This latest gambit is just a drop in the bucket.
quetzal, emergent = liberal
feet, I haven't seen that beating animals, small children, or wives is a sin either in Scripture. Shall we assume they are OK too?
jesusis1 and down under
not all the prohibitions of lev of themselves are sins, such as eating certain things, wearing mixed fabric, and doing household chores on the sabbath.
num15: 32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded
and there were other laws that condone things that today are untolerable evils...............such as the passing of ones slaves to ones progeny as probate capital.
see what hebrews 8 says about the old covenat versus the new.l
as for romans: what lie was exchanged for what truth and how was what entity of creation worshipped and served so that certain individuals were given over to homosexuality.
romans uses the phrase" their women" homosexuals dont have any women. the" have" denotes a property relationship.
the sexual action was motivated by shame based lust(niv) there is no bonding in lust. what ever commitment there is, is to the lust. anything shame based is about self hatred and self loathing.
homosexuals bond out of mutual love, respect,attraction, devotion, and trust for a shared committed life together the same as heterosexuals
the shame based lust same sex relations of romans has as little to do with homosexuality as the incestial rape of 2samuel has to do with heterosexuality. if the rape does not condemn heterosexuality then why should acts motivated by shame based lust condemn homosexuality.
jesus said we will recognize them by their fruits. fruits being the fruit of the spirit.
homosexuals are not found wanting in any sector of society compared to heterosexuals. they are not less a brother, doctor, soldier, attorney, administrator, friend, neighbor. could you say the same of those given over to the sinful nature of gal 5 with those that were not.
if homosexual bonding embraces the same fruits as heterosexual bonding.....................love, joy, peace, goodness, patience, kindness, gentleness,faithfulness and self-control, then they are both of god.
is there any indication that the legal, 20 and 30 year testified relationship, marriages in massachussets are trending toward heterosexual divorce percentages?
This was a general article about an inter-faith meeting during which leaders expressed the concept of one God and the need for all believers to be compassionate and caring. It´s amazing that some readers see this as an opening to fire scrìptural broadsides at their favorite topic....homosexuality. And could someone please give the exact definition of "emergent" leader?
It is interesting how some grab onto only that part of their "faith" which they agree with and reject that which they do not agree with, which is really another faith and they, in honesty, should no longer call themselves of that faith.
For instance, if you claim "Christian", which most would define as one who believes that Jesus was the Christ, then one should strive to follow the tenets He laid down...the ones agreed with and the ones that are disagreed with. So, Christ called us to compassion, truly, but He also called us to stand firm for His Truth. He said He is the Way and the Truth and the Life. He affirmed the Old Testament laws. He saw man's need for a savior from our sins.
If we veer from those Truths about Christ and what He said and did, then we should not call ourselves Christian and be honest.
Maybe Mr. Bell and Padgett and those who reject those aspects of the Truths of the Scripture they disagree with should stop calling themselves Christ followers. It is disingenious and misleading.
Feet,
t When we don't give God the rightful place in our lives our minds can not see clearly and God allows us to pursue what we choose. See the rest of the chapter for the context but quite cleary homosexuality is against God's divine plan for humanity.
Roman 1:
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
so homosexual couples cant naturally reproduce. where does it say it is a sin. is there law in that 2 enuchs cannot marry.
the people of noah reproduced and also did the people of sodom..............................god had no problem wiping out them, their children and every living thing that was a part of them. showing that procreation was not the most important thing, but instead raising the children in a loving(love that is god) nurturing environment. committed homosexual couples are credited with providing loving nurturing homes equal to those of married heterosexual couples. some have opened their homes to abandoned, rejected children of heterosexual unions.
the only way one can say what goes against god's will, what is his intention, and his purpose, would be to know his mind...............his thoughts. scripture says no human knows the mind of god. his ways are as far from humans as the heavens are far from the earth.
scriptures say that a man will have a one flesh relationship with a woman. where are the words that say anything else is a sin.
in matthew 19:11-1211Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[c]because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."
"Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given..............................................................The one who can accept this should accept it."
not everyone has been given the word of a one flesh man woman relationship. and there are those who even though they are given it, they cannot accept it. if they cannot accept it, they shouldn't.
feet, ....
Genesis 1: 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.......
I don't know of any homosexual's that can multiply naturally as GOD intended do you?
Husband and Wife means man and woman... you can't have children without the proper ingredients from man and woman and the blessing of GOD.
Homosexuality goes against GOD'S will and it is an abomination in his eyes- it is a sin, like other sexual sin's, lust, fornication, adultery, etc.... IN JESUS NAME
feet,
Col 3:18 Wives,submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
19 Husbands, love your wives,and be not bitter against them
Genesis 3:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife:and they shall be one flesh.
Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
IN JESUS NAME
i know scripture i have not seen any that said homosexuality is a sin.
and though in some there may be a referral to same sex relations and to sins commited in thoose relations as with heterosexual relations in 1and 2 samuel, there are still no words that say homosexuality is a sin.
feet,
You've seen those verses before on other posts- don't act like you have'nt, your not fooling anybody. IN JESUS NAME
canadian and timl
perhaps you can explain how the words in scripture say homosexuality is a sin.
tlml,
Before you go casting blame for division's just remember, the church might have stayed united had not people sought after doing things in the flesh and not in THE HOLY SPIRIT. All churches/denominations who don't follow the commands of scripture and make up their own unbiblical concepts are the cause of divisions. Not to be mean spirited but I must tell the truth- the catholic church must bear some blame for going their own way and not staying scripturally grounded on the truth as other denominations have done also. IN JESUS NAME
quecat
in the parable of the good samaritan, did the samaritan stop being a samaritan. how do you love your neighbor as yourself wiithout fellowship.
fellowship...........a mutual sharing, as of experience, activity,and interest.
the samaritans willingly succombed to the greeks and their regulations of worshipping zeus.
perhaps you are unable to see the difference between coming together for mutual sharing on issues of mutual concern and yoking oneself to anyone other than christ who is our lord and savior. yoking ourselves to christ "my yoke is easy and my burden is light" means we go where he goes and do what he does, being led by his spirit of love. do believe that christ loves only believers. how is that possible when he died for all, and everyone who is created is created thru his spirit.
are you saying its better to create another law(which are to die to) thru scriptural interpretation and allow ourselves to be led it, a law created from our own undertstanding.
Well the Church was SUPPOSED to be united... but the protestants kinda screwed THAT one up :P
Feet - the more I hear from you - the more you sound like a Unitarian instead of a Christian. Little wonder that you're so confused. You toss around your sounds-good, feel-good, existential gobbledygook and hope that someone swallows it hook, line and sinker!
You ask: Are we of one spirit and fellowship with everyone else on the planet?
Actually NO - we are not ! Buddhists believe so, however.
What does God say about it the bible?
2Cr 6:14-17a "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers:
for WHAT FELLOWSHIP hath righteousness with unrighteousness?
and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial?
or what part hath HE THAT BELIEVETH with an INFIDELl?
And WHAT AGREEMENT hath the temple of God with idols?
for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and BE YE SEPARATE, saith the Lord"
does the spirit of christ unify our hearts to those of other religions or seperate us from them? are we not all made in his spirit and has not god written his laws on all our hearts and put them in all our minds worldwide.
when 1john1 says that if we walk in the light, as he is in the light we have fellowship with one another, the spirit was including fellowship with all on this planet?
and when jesus said love your neighbor as yourself he was also including all our world neighbors of other religions?
is our faith in christ about a spirit relationship or about burdening identity? the spirt evolves and grows but identity is a static entity and can exist with or without love.
the biggest destroyer on the usa is its arrogance, this is for believers a as well as nonbelievers. i long for the day that this is broken. daily, we see the suffering, it causes.
I think that many Christians forget the purpose for why we do, say, and think as Christians. Not only do we do these things because there the right thing to do we also have an ulterior motive that is to open a window of opportunity to not only show the love of Christ, but perhaps more importantly share the love of Christ as we boldly share the Gospel with the lost. We must also continue to remember that other religions also have an ulterior motive, to in the context of their religion save themselves. And to lose this distinction will cause us to be no different than any other good works religion in the sight of a lost world.
This type of Politically correct Cumbaya ecuminism is wrong. Reformed Christians, Lutherans, Orthodox, Presbyterians and Catholics have fully rejected any kind of get together unless Christ is a topic of conversation and of hopeful conversion.
We Christians must stand strong against this fluff.
Amen, Quecat, amen, amen, amen. Keep reciting 2 Corinthians, they all need to hear it. Where are the teachers of sound doctrine without itching ears when it comes to this kind of rubbish?
Just WOW! The ignorance, the heresy, and the lack of even basic scriptural understanding is staggering. That anyone could think to go to this event, let alone all this emergent nonsense, it just staggers the imagination. Appalled is too kind a word...
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
This verse in as much states that it's improbable that the elect would be deceived. So it begs the question, if you are being deceived - Are you really one of the elect?
This should be a sobering question.
2Cr 13:5 "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith..."
I agree with Quecat. Who is really surprised by this? These emergent leaders have been leaning hard toward universalism for the last several years. If this shocks you then you aren't paying attention.
2Cr 6:14-17 "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers:
For what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,"
"The participation of emergent church leaders in an interfaith dialogue raised flags for some conservative Christians who have been concerned over a growing cooperation of emergent church leaders with New Spirituality/New Age leaders."
Raised flags for SOME??!!! Talk about being behind the curve. I mean really - who was caught off guard by this "growing cooperation"??
Pauls writes 2Cr 11:3-7 "But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough....
2Cr 11:12-15 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness.
Their end will be what their actions deserve."
In II Corinthians, the Apostle Paul said that those who preach another Gospel but Jesus Christ should be "accursed". He repeated it twice for emphasis. Those who reject Christ are Anti-Christ, as all false religions are. This entire Seeds of Compassion event was a tacit denial of Christ by Rob Bell and Doug Pagitt, and they are leading evangelicals who are doctrinally and biblically ignorant right into the New Age/New Spirituality flooding the West. We are all One. We are all part of each other. We are all tapping into the same spiritual divinity source. Not according to the Scriptures! Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me." It's really that simple. That's why Christians have been reviled and hated throughout history. If they crucified Jesus himself, why wouldn't they go after us when we preach the Gospel of exclusivity? Salvation through Christ alone. Persecution is about to heat up and the emerging church crowd will be leading the charge.
It is illogical and unreasonable to sever "knowledge" from "experience". How can one know what they are experiencing without knowledge of what "it" is that they are experiencing? Are we 21st Century people still thinking like cave men? The emergent church has wound up at a dead end road with nothing to offer except a relativistic world view by which there is no truth and certainly no accountability in its secluar humanistic fervor.
How foolish can the emergent church be to think "connectedness" equates to salvation or the worshipping of ONE TRUE GOD. One only needs to read the Prophets of the OT to figure this out. Oh wait, the God of the OT is not the same God of the NT right? They have no excuse for their blatant refusal to acknowledge the GOD of the entire Bible. We would do well to condemn this heresy. Not by our authority, but by the authority of the word of God.
"They teach that you really can't understand the Bible, nor are you supposed to. Rather you need to experience it; it's not what God says, but how you feel about it; its content is to be received really subjectively or experientially."
In the absence of biblical truth, there remains no common ground to have the "conversation" so desired by some of the emergent types.