BmoreTeacher

Do you really care about what God's view is about homosexuality, the Eucharist, and other issues? Or do you only care about what man says God's Word teaches?

Jesus said that if your will is to do the will of God, then you will know whether the doctrine that is taught is of man or of God. (John 7:17).

Do you really want to know what God's position is on homosexuality, the Eucharist, abortion, and etc? If you do, then go to God and allow Him to teach you truth (John 14:26) and to guide you into it (John 16:13).

http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html

This is where I get many of my views from Jar. Being a teacher, I don't have the time to go into each and every study, but you seem to have plenty of free time, so why don't you look into that. I find it particularly interesting what they say about homosexuality not being a choice and the lack of evidence for conversion therapy.

Someone responded to my question about the Eucharist, but I'm still not sure it was answered completely. Catholicism claims they have the ultimate Truth about the passage "Unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you shall not have life within you." For Catholics, there is no other question or interpretation, despite the fact you may claim there is. I think that is the same viewpoint as what I have. There most certainly are interpretations, for each and every Bible verse you claim condemns homosexuality, that refute what you are saying. You claim this is wrong with as much fury as a Catholic would about the Eucharist. Who is to say you have the Truth and I don't, or that I have the Truth and you don't? Fact of the matter is, if you believe something in the Bible that strongly, that is great for you, but there will always be people who feel you are wrong. I am not calling you a sinner for not believing in the Eucharist in the same way I do. If you are wrong, it is not for me to judge you. Many people on here, in particular Jar, have been bashing gays up and down, and I take that very personally. It is not your place to condemn me, and while I am not saying everyone on here has been (Chris, I appreciate your willingness to dialogue) I feel like Jar just doesn't want to here it. If you don't, thats fine, but you do not have the right to attack my views and tell me I am flat out wrong, because Truth is something that no one will have in its entirety until we are standing before Jesus.

Jar, you do not post those for good, you post those for a very specific attack on me, which is in no way Christian. OK, so lets say (for the sake of you not whining) that what you have found is true. Because some gay couples have domestic violence or HIV, my relationship needs to be defined by them? Just being gay does not make you more likely to be a batterer. I think you take that information and don't think about why it is so. People who are violent have had past issues in their lives, such as being abused or witnessing it themselves. It as about power. I have grown up in a very healthy, normal household with my older brother, younger brother, younger sister, and both my parents. My mom was a stay at home mom, my dad enjoyed a good job close to home which allowed him to come to all my baseball games and swim meets, as well as practice with me on the weekends. By all accounts, I am a very normal person who happens to be gay, which is quite inexplicable. I do not see why Jar is so intent on making the entire homosexual community look bad just because of statistics without thinking why they are so. Gays are marginalized, and often face hatred and abuse by people outside of the community. I would suspect the rates of abuse are so high because that is their way of reclaiming power. Jar, did you see the articles that say 1 in 4 teenage girls now have an STD? That has nothing to do with the gay community. Yes, gays tend to be more promiscuous, but they learn that from watching mainstream society stereotype them. Luckily, my parents told me that just because I was gay didn't mean I should become promiscuous or play into the stereotype, and that support has kept me safe and clean, and now I am in a committed relationship.

CHRIS... I wish you God Speed. Baltimore is a professed homosexual public school teacher who is adopting a child. I agree with what you say again. I think a good starting point is point to John 1.. that Gods Word is infallible and inerrant. This is the crux of the entire discussion. If Christians dont agree on John 1 then false theologies and beliefs are always the result.. because it gives man the ability to pick truths from a menu.

Anyway.... BALMORE never gives specific citations.. he just throws out propaganda and never backs it up... so in order to have a civil discussion requires addressing all false hoods spiritual or secular..because the secular is a reflection of Gods word.. it documents clearly the consequences for sin..... so it glorifies His Truth.. that's why I use the CDC and DOJ reports

jar,

I understand your position and am in agreement with you, however, I am also willing to give Bmore a chance to defend his position.

"Chris I appreciate your desire to have a civil conversation with this man, but not at the cost of both denying what is common knowledge and not without challanging him to present the truth."

I did not deny what was common knowledge, I only gave Bmore the chance to present his case. I am fully aware of the CDC and other reports, however, I also know that this ultimately does not come down to what a secular organization says, it comes down to what God says. Thus the debate will be focused mostly on that, unless you want to make a secular argument. Also, I have challenged Bmore to give his "input" and defend his position. I have been thorough in noting the wholes in his arguments thus far. If at all possible I would rather have a strong but caring discussion, than an emotionally charged and irrational one.

with homosexuality, we have a scientific answer about the roots of homosexuality to back up my side of it."

CHRIS: This very well may be true, I am not a scientist so I will not comment too far on this (assuming you are). But either way, the Bible is clear. Science is not dealing with the heart of man and his relationship with God, the Bible is.


Chris I appreciate your desire to have a civil conversation with this man, but not at the cost of both denying what is common knowledge and not without challanging him to present the truth.

I have posted studies from the Dept of Justice showing the statistical facts on gay domestic violence which Bmore has at least 7 times deleted cause he didnt like the truth.

Then I posted the reports from the CDC showing the truth about those groups most affected by HIV and that was deleted as well

This guy makes up stuff hoping no one will check his lies.

BaltTeach is a teacher not a scientist. Challange him.. Okay Bmore teacher show us the scientifc proof. As far as I know the discoverer of the genome has gone on record as saying there is absolutely no identified gene related to being born at birht as a homosexual. They hgave tried now for 10 years to find one ands there isnt one.

The other flaw in his armor is that in Baptism we are called to die to the old man and put on the new. To pouut off the off man in our old ways. SO even if being homosexual is something he claims to be born with, then he is denying the power of the HOly SPirit to transform.

This was one of my posts that he deleted cause he didnt want to deal with it.

Bmore,

"If you choose to support one side or the other about the Eucharist being an essential aspect of following Christ, why can't I do the same for homosexuality?"

You can, the question is if it is practical to do so, or even possible (without tearing out some parts of the Bible). Regarding Eucharist there are two arguments, one based on the Bible, which is not clear, and the words "Do this in remembrance of Me" which would point towards symbolism. The other side is based on a tradition which has more or less always said it was real. With homosexuality, it is clearly called an abomination in the Old Testament, and in several places in the New is referred to as sinful. Despite some protests that that is only an "abuse homosexual relationship" there is very little support for this, in the text. Why wouldn't the Bible simply condemn all abusive relationships? Why single out homosexual relationships? Surely there is often abuse in both kinds of relationship.

"To me, we're comparing apples to apples"

Not exactly, nobody is trying to argue that taking the Eucharist is a sin, they are just debating the meaning of it.

"with homosexuality, we have a scientific answer about the roots of homosexuality to back up my side of it."

This very well may be true, I am not a scientist so I will not comment too far on this (assuming you are). But either way, the Bible is clear. Science is not dealing with the heart of man and his relationship with God, the Bible is.

"I truly don't understand the condemnations, they seem to completely ignore modern science and refuse to hear any dialogue from my point of view and life experience."

I won't speak for others, but I do not believe I ever "condemned" you, I try to leave that kind of judgment for God. Nonetheless, I will tell you what the Bible says, and my perspective, if you care to dialogue. And, while I do not want to discount your experience, or any science that possibly backs your argument up, we really need to deal with what the Bible says. I am not trying to say that you are not happy, or anything like that, I am trying to give you the best advice I can, while also defending my perspective.

" Any input I may offer is simply dismissed as me being a sinner refusing to turn from my ways."

I have done no such thing, rather it seems you haven't given much input, but where you have, I have addressed it. It seems you are assuming that I am going to condemn you before you speak. I am willing to dialogue about this, so long as we can keep a decent conversation and not devolve into name calling and mudslinging. I thank you for your civil post.

God Bless you, both ifeelfine and Bmore

Chris, the reason I brought that up is because there are arguments, which are legitimate, about homosexuality in the Bible that could go either way. If you choose to support one side or the other about the Eucharist being an essential aspect of following Christ, why can't I do the same for homosexuality? To me, we're comparing apples to apples, and with homosexuality, we have a scientific answer about the roots of homosexuality to back up my side of it. I truly don't understand the condemnations, they seem to completely ignore modern science and refuse to hear any dialogue from my point of view and life experience. Any input I may offer is simply dismissed as me being a sinner refusing to turn from my ways.

ifeelfine,

I forgot to mention. Expelled is not meant to be a scholarly work to prove ID. The producers of the movie explicitly stated this many times. The point of the movie is to expose a perceived injustice in the scientific community. Any "scholarly" aspects of the movie are there to aid this and not make a case for ID.