WASHINGTON (AP) - John Hagee, an influential Texas televangelist who endorsed John McCain, apologized to Catholics Tuesday for his stinging criticism of the Roman Catholic Church and for having "emphasized the darkest chapters in the history of Catholic and Protestant relations with the Jews."
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(Photo: AP Images / Sebastian Scheiner, File)In this April 6, 2008, file photo influential Texas evangelist John Hagee of Christians United for Israel addresses a crowd of his followers and Israeli supporters at a rally at the Jerusalem convention center.
Hagee's support for McCain has drawn cries of outrage from some Catholic leaders who have called on McCain to reject Hagee's endorsement. The likely Republican nominee has said he does not agree with some of Hagee's past comments, but did not reject his support.
In a letter to William Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Civil and Religious Rights, Hagee wrote: "Out of a desire to advance a greater unity among Catholics and evangelicals in promoting the common good, I want to express my deep regret for any comments that Catholics have found hurtful."
Donohue, one of Hagee's sharpest critics, said he accepted the apology and planned to meet with Hagee Thursday in New York.
"I got what I wanted," Donohue said in an interview. "He's seen the light, as they like to say. So for me it's over."
The controversy had threatened to pursue McCain throughout the campaign, potentially hurting his standing with Catholic voters. A narrow majority of Roman Catholics voted for President Bush in 2004 and for Al Gore in 2000, critical votes in close elections.
The letter came after Hagee met Friday for lunch in a French restaurant in downtown Washington with 22 influential religious activists, virtually all of them Catholics.
Hagee has cited the Inquisition and the Crusades as evidence of anti-Semitism within the Catholic church and has suggested that Catholic anti-Semitism shaped Adolf Hitler's views of Jews.
"In my zeal to oppose anti-Semitism and bigotry in all its ugly forms, I have often emphasized the darkest chapters in the history of Catholics and Protestant relations with the Jews," Hagee wrote. "In the process, I may have contributed to the mistaken impression that the anti-Jewish violence of the Crusades and the Inquisition defines the Catholic Church. It most certainly does not."
Hagee has often made references to "the apostate church" and the "great whore," terms that Catholics say are slurs aimed at the Roman Catholic Church. In his letter, Hagee said he now better understood that his use of those descriptions, taken from the Book of Revelations, are "a rhetorical device long employed in anti-Catholic literature and commentary."
He stressed that in his use, "neither of these phrases can be synonymous with the Catholic Church."
The remarkable 2 1/2-page letter was no doubt inspired by the political storm Hagee's endorsement caused. Hagee leads a San Antonio, Texas, megachurch with a congregation in the tens of thousands. He has an even wider television audience.
When he endorsed McCain in late February, Donohue and other Catholic leaders demanded that McCain repudiate him. The Democratic National Committee also weighed in, highlighting Hagee's remarks over the years.
Some commentators even likened Hagee's affect on McCain to the controversy Democrat Barack Obama faced as a result of the views expressed by his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Continue >>
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So Star, now you think you have the power to forgive someone's sins or not? Oh my God! I don't think so. That's not at all what this passage says. This passage gives authority to the apostles to forgive or retain sins through God. That's what authority is all about.
However Star, you are not God. You are commanded to forgive someone who trespasses against you. It's not an option. You are to forgive. Period! You Star are not to retain someone's sins. Obey God.
Now get down to your local Catholic Church, you need to confess your sins of pride and unforgiveness before it it too late. God bless and make you Holy....
Tallguy1000
What commands Jesus spoke to the disciples when He appeared before them after He rose from the dead applies to all believers.
Jesus said in John 20:23, "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them: and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."
If someone sins against me personally I have the power to forgive them of their sin without them asking me for it or I have the power to hold it against them until they do.
Oh Justme984, you know where it is in the bible.... In John 20:23, Jesus told the disciples, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." You stated that it is clear that Jesus gave them power to forgive. This verse has always been a clear statement to me.
Try it sometime. Go to a Catholic Confession and confess your sins to a priest. Meet him face to face. Discuss your sins with him, tell him all about it. When he speaks "your sins are forgiven" you will feel such a weight taken off your shoulders you'll then understand the benefit of confession...
Where in the Bible do priests have the right to forgive sins??
chris70, when I have the opportunity to preach I often tell the congregation that those words are the only thing I long for when I get to heaven, not the crowns, not the rewards, but to hear from Christ that my life mattered for the cause of Christ that God used me to make a difference for Him and I remind them that Christ will say not perfectly done, but well done. I look so forward to that day!! As a song we sing in many of our churches says, "When we all get to heaven what a day of rejoicing that will be when we all see Jesus we'll sing and shout the victory!!!!"
Both Believer and MSN,
You both just put on Christ in the last few posts. We need to build each other up, and you both after all your bickering just showed everyone how we should pray for each other and love one another.
May we all take these last few posts as the Holy Spirit guiding both their hearts for reconcilliation. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ would be so proud of both of you.
MSN and Believer just taught us all so much in the last few posts. May God be glorified!
Believer,
We have butted heads quite a bit.
IN the end, it won't be denominations like you said. We will all be just Christians as one body in Christ and it will be as simple as; "Do you accept me as your savior and did you love me with all your heart and did you love your neighbor as yourself?" Well done, good and faithful servant is what we should both want to hear.
I, like you, put all my Trust in Christ and by Grace we will be saved.
See you in Heaven my friend in Christ.
I don't have a problem with confessing our sins to one another in fact I do my best to encourage the pastors of my association of the importance of having an accountability partner. Howard Hendricks says we each need a Paul, someone to disciple us, a Barnabas, someone to encourage us as well as be honest with us to include accountability, and a Timothy, someone who we can disciple and invest our life in. I can almost guarantee that 99% of every pastor who has gotten caught up in a sinful discretion did not have an accountability partner, I praise God I have several men who willingly agreed to be my accountability partner they are blatantly honest with me and not afraid to ask me the tough questions. I know the release your talking about when you share your hurts, joys, and transgressions with a trusted brother in Christ who you know loves you as Christ loves you and doesn't judge you or hold your shortcomings over you. Where we differ is you believe that the priest has the ability to forgive your sins and I believe only God through Christ will forgive my sins. As far as you being a catholic that is a decision between you and God and I have no right to question that, but the bottom line is this when you and I appear before God He's not going to ask us what denomination we were, He's going to ask what we did with His Son, Jesus Christ, did we accept Him or reject Him, our answer to that will determine our eternal destiny, in heaven there won't be any Anglicans, Baptists, Charismatics, or Catholics, etc, only children of God who accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and Lord. Needless to say we have butted heads on a number of issues, but in several of your blogs you shared that indeed you have asked Jesus Christ to be your Savior and Lord, so in closing I don't hope to see you there I look forward to seeing you there.
Believer,
I will even give you kudos for what you wrote. I will say with all due respect to you as a fellow Christian, that going directly to ABBA or Daddy is always the first thing I do. Sometimes when and if my sins are great, sometimes I just need someone to talk to. Christ gave mankind a gift of the Priesthood to forgive sins. As a Protestant I didn't like the idea, but now as a Catholic I find great peace. Most all Priests have multiple PhD's and most not only in theology and Scripture but in Psychology and in life experience.
I honestly felt that Christ was speaking through my priest when I gave my confession. I cried so much, because I could honestly feel God's grace flowing back in to me after sinning against Him and my fellow man. To give your confession to a Priest truly creates a humble and contrite heart. It is a gift that you can choose to use if you want Believer. All I will say, it is a wonderful gift.
The Church does have a lot of complexities. If the complexities are too much then I thank God you found your relationship somewhere else. I actually find the complexities of Catholicism wonderful and rich. Their view of Christ is so deep and not very simple at all. I love my deeper relationship with Christ because of the Eucharist, the Liturgy which is all Scripture, confession, etc. I love all the feast days that remind me to be a Saint and immitate Christ as best I can. I love the seasons of worship where we can adore God more specifically.
I absolutely love being Catholic. I loved what you wrote in the last two paragraphs. It was simple and concise and revealed your heart. God will judge both our hearts and how we sought Him in our lives and I pray that one day I will see you in Heaven praising Him together.
Peace.
Kudos for believer!
Mat 18:2,3 "And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
<Not a bunch of red tape, rules, if-this-then-that....just simple faith and contrition.>
believer,
Amen! Preach brother, preach!
Amen brother believer. You have hit the nail on the head!
I am going to flag all my previous blogs because these last two are I believe who and what God would have me be and becoming and be about the business of sharing with others.
Based on that why would I want or need to go through a priest or anyone else with my prayer concerns or to have my sins forgiven. If lets say I had a choice of bringing an issue directly to the President or going through a whole lot of red tape or his staff which would I pick, needless to say this is a no-brainer, Mr. President thank you for seeing me hear I am. With God it's even better I as His child have access to Him 24/7 and because He is God He's never to busy to see me and listen to me and even though He may have me wait for His answer it's not because He can't answer me immediately it's because He has a purpose for me waiting so He won't answer me immediately, the same is true when He says no. Christ no where in His Word tells me I have to go through anyone but Him to have access to my heavenly Father in fact He declares that He and the Father are one. So why would I want to go through a priest, bishop, pope, mary, or anyone else when as a child of the King I can go directly to Him. The catholic church much like the Jewish religious leaders of Christ's day have made worship of God both exclusive as well as complicated and other denominations have done the same as well. I don't agree with that, but I do respect their right to do it, but I will not be a part of it either. Because when I am either hurting or in trouble or just need a shoulder to lean on I'm going straight to my Daddy, Abba Father and no one else because I know He is always there for me and He will never leave me or forsake me. Man will let me down but God will never let me down and He's always there to pick me up! Praise the Lord and thank you Jesus!
One of Jesus biggest concerns with the Jewish religious leaders was that they had made the worship of God both exclusive and complicated to the point that only a small group of them controlled and dictated the worship of God. The book of Hebrews makes it clear that thanks to the work of Christ on Calvary not only were all the manmade rules for worship negated even some of the rules of worship established by God were no longer necessary because they had been fulfilled by Christ's death on the cross. One of the major ones was the need for any more animal sacrifices since they were a prophetic symbol of the sacrifice that Christ would fulfill as the perfect sacrifice which He did on Calvary. Another one was that the role of the High Priest was done away with since now we have Jesus Christ to be our High Priest and since by being washed in the shed blood of Christ on Calvary every truly born again believer has direct access to the Holy of Holies, the throne of God. We are told to bring all our prayer concerns directly to God through Christ our High Priest and to the throne of God. Christ declares Himself to be our Mediator before God and we no longer need to go through any religious heiarchy but Him alone. I am going to a second entry to ensure I don't run over.
IHS
It is God who gives you your call into the ministry (Pastorate). God will confirm your call to the ministry to your Pastor. God will give your Pastor the authority to set you apart for the ministry by the laying on of hands.
Acts 13:1-3
1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
IHS,
You are correct when you say “I know the Word of God is my only source that I need.” Take comfort in the fact that our Lord and Savior always quoted scripture; he never quoted from the traditions of men. You also asked this question, “if my beliefs differ from people who were personally taught by the Apostles how can I know who is right?”
As you continue to investigate the writings of the church fathers, you will soon find out that not only did they sometimes contradict one another but they also contradicted scripture. So, you are not bound by any teaching, doctrine, or philosophy that is not supported by the Word of God. We have assurance because the Scriptures maintain an unblemished and consistent testimony that never contradicts itself.
Oh yeah, we even see in Luke 19:8-9 where Jesus praises Zaccheaus for his promise of reparation for his sin. Just because Jesus may forgive your sin, it doesn't mean that damage hasn't been done to your soul. There must be reparation and you must do this yourself. Prayer helps repair your soul, giving alms repairs your soul, fasting and reading the Bible repairs your soul.
Sin always causes disfigurment in one way or the other and while you are forgiven, your soul is still wounded. Matt 3:8 "produce good fruit as evidence of your repentance" 2Cor 7:10 "godly sorry produces a salutary repentance without regret."
Confession is not a private affair in the Bible.
Lev 5:14-26 (Public confession with animal Sacrifices) in the OT.
Matt 3:6 "Baptized by him...as they acknoledged their sins"
Acts 19:18 "Believers came forward and openly acknowledged their sins"
James 5:16 "Confess your sins to one another..that you might be healed."
Believer,
There you go putting your own spin again. In Mt 9 we see where the Son of Man has the power to forgive sins right?
Is there any other place in Scripture that talks about Jesus given the Power to forgive sins to anyone????
Jn 20:22-23 Jesus breathed on them, "Receive the Holy Spirit, whose sins you forgive they are forgiven and whose sins you retain they are retained." Jesus breathed on them much like Genesis where God breathed into Adam to give him life. Not only did the Disciples of God receive the Confirmation in the Holy Spirit, but they also received power to forgive sins or retain them. THIS IS VERY EXPLICIT AND PLAIN AS DAY.
Not only did Jesus give them this power, but we see historically that not one person questioned how it iwas to be lived out. If you sinned, you went to the Priest or Bishop for a public or private confession. These men who have authority to forgive sins do not do so with their own word but by the Word of God and the power of God alone.
Matt 16:18 and 18:18 Jesus gives the Apostles special authority to Bind and Loose. By the way, just so you know the word Absolve means to Loose.
We see in James that the prayers of the Presbyters does forgive sins. It is their prayers on behalf of the person and the fact they have authority given by God. "presbyters of the Church..pray over him..he will be forgiven."
You see IN SCRIPTURE JESUS GAVE MEN in his stead the power to forgive or retain sins. It is Biblical and it is historical. Could you show me any Scripture verse that denies that Jesus gave them this power? If you use Scripture to refute, then try. What you will see is that we are supposed to go to God and we are suppose to go to a Priest too. It is not a either or, IT IS A BOTH AND. After you go to the Priest and he prays over you and absolves you or loosens you from Sin, then you must receive a penance by doing extra bible reading-giving food to the poor-maybe righting the wrong-become more prayerful.
To IHS,
Continue in Seminary and get a great education. I won't lead you one way or the other, except to say that you should study ALL the Scriptures. I would also encourage you to interpret these Scriptures by yourself without anyone else help. Then take your interpretations and compare those to your Pastor, other Christians and then those of the Early Church. See where your interpretation line up.
Be prayerful and realize there is only one Truth and Truth is not a personal interpretion. God speed.
I'm sorry believer, but your authority is self imposed. The Authority given in the Bible was never self imposed. Your practice is unbiblical and you should reject it.
Now, do I think you are doing good in the name of Jesus? Yes. Do I think people can come to Christ through you? Yes. Do I think that your heart is totally sold out for Jesus? Yes.
I think you are probably a very faithful Christian who does have a calling. My only point is that your church or denomination has not retained the Gift of the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth or the power to forgive sins. If you had valid holy orders you would have those gifts because Jesus gave them to the Apostles and those Apostles gave them to the Bishops, etc.
I'm sure your doing great work and I hope you keep it up. I'm just simply showing how even you Baptists do things that are not Scriptural.
IHS
Give your problem with this Church authority issue to God and let Him help you with it. Phip 4:6-7
I will be here tomorrow but I don't know yet exactly when; maybe morning, maybe afternoon, evening, or night.
IHS
Re: I really need your help. My stomach is all upset now and I have a very sinking feeling. give me scriptures.
Philippians 4:6-7
6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
It is claimed that the "Fathers" must be competent guides, since they lived so near the days of Christ and the apostles. This is a tacit admission that the gospel which was preached by Christ and the apostles is the true standard. But that has been recorded in the New Testament; and therefore, instead of being obliged to depend on the testimony of any who lived this side of their time, we can go direct to the fountain-head, and can draw therefrom the gospel in as pure a state as though we had listened in person to the teaching of inspired men. (Fathers Of The Catholic Church: A Brief Examination Of The “Falling Away” of the Church in the first three centuries. by E. J. Waggoner)
Take heed saints and be not led away, strongly remembering this warning: “For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears” (Ac 20:29-31).
Now there are certain men who have acquired great celebrity as "Church Fathers."
This term, strangely enough, is never applied to the apostles, to whom it would seem to be more applicable than to any other men, but to certain men who lived in the first few centuries of the Christian era, and who exerted a great influence on the church. As a matter of fact, the true church has but one Father, even God; therefore whatever church recognizes any men as its Fathers, must be a church of merely human planting, having only human ordinances. (Fathers Of The Catholic Church: A Brief Examination Of The “Falling Away” of the Church in the first three centuries. by E. J. Waggoner)
Take heed saints, lest you give ear to, “Yea, hath God said?” and you be led away from “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works” (2 Timothy 3:16, 17).
I just looked up Early Church Fathers on Wikipedia and it says that these men were discipled by the Apostles; Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, etc.
I don't have time to read about these guys right now, but my question is this; if my beliefs differ from people who were personally taught by the Apostles how can I know who is right? Man, this really has me in a spin. Star, I really appreciate your support.
Please stay on this post by tomorrow so I can read about these Fathers. I know the Word of God is my only source that I need. My concern is how can people who were discipled by the Apostles get it wrong so soon????
Please pray for me, because I need it. This has me so very troubled.
AngloCat
Re:The Catholics have never claimed the Pope was God, ever
Oh, really? You error again. Pope Leo XIII: "We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."
Star2,
Are you kidding me? The Catholics have never claimed the Pope was God, ever! No Anglican would ever say he was God. You are making a false statement against them.
They only believe that for unity to be accomplished that "yes" Jesus Christ is our source of unity, but Jesus gave the Keys to Peter and Peter alone. Peter in Scripture spoke for God about food and circumcission. Peter's word was binding because he had authority from JESUS.
The Pope is simply the voice for Christ on Earth. The only time the Pope speaks officially for Christ is from the Chair of Peter, which is more rare than Haley's Commet.
Stop spreading falsehoods about what Catholics believe, when they clearly do not. The Pope is the successor of Peter in an unbroken line of succession.
To IHS,
You should be worried. Without Apostolic Authority handed down from Bishop to Bishop from the original Apostles, then you have no authority to speak for Christ officially. By all means continue your studies and preach the Gospel, but if you want to become a valid Pastor then you must receive your ordination from someone who has valid Holy Orders.
IHS
Re:I have no clue what the Early fathers means? Who are these guys? Are they Apostles?
Do your self a favor, and don't give them a second thought. No they are not the Apostles. The Catholic Church claims that the early church fathers received oral teachings and traditions from the Apostles. If that were so, then their teachings would be consistent with what the Word of God teaches and they are not.
The Word of God is all you need for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness so that you may be perfect and thoroughly furnished unto all good works. (2 Tim 3: 16-17).
“As we search the Scriptures and compare our interpretation with that of the earliest accounts we will have unity.” --Anglocat
Let us be careful concerning “earliest accounts”, or what we would call the uninspired writings that many praise. The Holy Spirit warned us what would happen after Paul’s departing.
“For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them” (Ac 20:29, 30)
Let us keep to true scripture, the original, delivered by God himself!
My pastor started our Church from scratch. My pastor was non-denominational but he came from a Baptist background I think. His Pastor who I know was a Lutheran and then became a Non-denominational Pastor. Did my Pastor's pastor have authority?
This really has me upset. I am looking at the Scriptures and see that they do have laying of hands and that it seems on the surface to be important. If we have a broken line, then do we have authority?
I really need your help. My stomach is all upset now and I have a very sinking feeling. Give me Scriptures!!! Thanks.
AngloCat
There can be no unity in the Body of Christ without Jesus Christ. The Pope, who is suppose to be God on the Earth, can not give it.
Colossians 1:9-18
9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
thanks to believer and star. I really enjoyed your posts, but the whole laying of hands going back to the Apostles is really effecting me. I am at the BTU or Boston Theological Union and have met many different Christians. I love what I am learning so thanks for your support.
We have many Catholics and Orthodox who all claim Apostolic origin and they have shown me people and dates. I didn't connect their Apostolic roots with authority though.
I am very troubled. If we cannot trace our roots to the Apostles is that important or not? We obviously have a broken line of laying of hands in my church since we only started about 50 years ago. I am a non-denominational Christian.
I have no clue what the Early fathers means? Who are these guys? Are they Apostles?
Do I have to explain to you the effects of Original Sin too?? Do I have to explain that because of the Sin of Adam and Eve, that we all have a fallen nature because of that sin.
Babies are only guilty of original sin and must be baptized by their Christian parents. Nothing in Scripture supports your view of Baptism. In an infant or child Baptism washes away original sin, but the flesh is still wounded so the person is inclined to sin later in life. This is the penalty of original sin. For those who are not baptized as a baby, then we pray for God's mercy to be upon them and by his grace to be saved. A baby is assured of salvation if they are baptized and died because they have no personal sins.
Again, I'm sure other bloggers who are Lutheran, Anglican, Reformed, Presbyterian and Methodist and just these denominations alone make up the majority of Protestantism, would agree with me. Catholics and Orthodox would agree too, which makes up almost 80% of Christianity. Baptists and fundamentalists make up only a very small percentage of Christianity and it is important to remember that Baptists were shunned by mainline Protestants because of their unbiblical view of Baptism and their unbiblical view of "born again".
AngloCat
Re:Baptism erases original sin.
Oh really? Isn't original sin, the sin of Adam; that is, "don't tell me what to do I'll do what I want". If that sin has been erased then why are you still commiting that sin?
IHS
Please read my Mon May 19,2008 10:03 post to msnchris70. I discuss who gives you the authority to be a Pastor.
It is the parents faith that speaks for the Child, and through Baptism the parent promises to teach the child about Christ. Just like circumssion did in the OT.
Baptism erases original sin. You cannot enter heaven without being Baptised.
Maybe I am coming into this way too late. I am a seminary student studying to become a Pastor.
Could someone give me scriptures to support the fact that when I become a Pastor it is valid?
I thought that all we have to do is believe and go to seminary. I understand the laying of hands, but I know our church cannot trace it back very far...please help!
AngloCat
believer said:This is a major concern I have with the catholic church in their own baltimore catechism they say without apology that when a person regardless of their age is baptized in the catholic church that baptism makes them a Christian, so they teach and believe that baptism alone makes you a Christian, I have a real hard time with those faiths who say putting your faith in Jesus and being baptized is required to becoming a Christian, but baptism alone to become a Christian is just down right scary. I'm on the board of a Crisis Pregnancy Center in our area and when a nun was being considered to be a part of the board she stated that she has been a Christian since she was baptized as a baby.
AngloCat said: In the great commission Jesus told them to make Disciples of all nations by Baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The only way you enter the Church as a Christian is by being Baptized.
You error AngloCat for you know not what the scriptures teach.
Jesus said
Mark 16:16 - "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
Acts 16:29-31
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?
31 And the said, BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED,..."
Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ is what saves you and makes you a Christian. A baby has no way of knowing that he/she is a sinner in need of a Savior.
AngloCat
The RCC is full of error and sin but the biggest sin they have is that the clergy replaced God in the lives of the laity.
Msn,
I am willing to discuss many of the topics that you touched upon but are you first willing to comment upon the following?
"If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ’s sake, let him be anathema" (Canon 12, Council of Trent).
“When the law of non-contradiction is applied to both the scriptures and the teachings of your church; only the scriptures maintain a constant and unblemished testimony. Your church on the other hand has REPEATEDLY CONTRADICTED ITSELF and history bears witness to this fact.”
AngloCat
If members in your church are dying on the vine it is because they are not attached to the vine.
Some reasons that 'believers' lack faith:
"What did we do to generate unbelief?" (Quote taken from "Cardinal: Britain Must Not Be 'God-Free' Zone" article)
The answer I gave to the question:
Pastors are impotent. They preach a watered down Gospel. They compromise the Word of God with the traditions and wisdom of man. There is no call to repentance and godly living. There is no demonstration of the power of God.
Here are some reasons why people lack faith: people not really saved, lack of Lorship if they are, liberalism, miracles are not for today, lack of prayer, lack of committment
I don't care how much Authority you think your pastor has, if a believer has not made Jesus Christ the Lord of their life then they will ultimately die a spiritual death.
If Jesus is not the Authority in your life then He is not the Lord of your life.
Believer,
Your definition of Christian is a new one. The nun who spoke about being a Christian since she was baptized was Scripturally and Historically correct in her definition. You have to understand that Baptists are hyper-Reformists and went simply too far.
The Baptists have an unscriptural definition of Baptism and this is why Calvin and Luther and Wesley and Knox rejected their premise. Baptism now saves you, Baptims is the new circumcission. Your definition about Baptism cannot be found anywhere in Christianity until Ulrich Zwingli and some of his contemporaries and a few in the AnaBaptist movement.
You are incorrect biblically speaking and the Nun was correct.
I was reading another website; Catholic News Agency, and noticed that one of the oldest Apostolic Churches called the Assyrian Apostolic Church just reunited with the Catholic Church in one diocese. Over 3000 members from the Assyrian Apostolic church united with the Chaldean Catholic Church. Their Bishop, many Priests and Deacons also joined. The Chaldean Catholic Church is a very old rite withing the Catholic Church. The Chaldeans are just as much Catholic as the Roman Catholics are.
This is the first group of Assyrians who have come back in such a large number since the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD. The Assyrian Bishop explicitly said that their can be no unity within the body of Christ without the Pope have universal Primacy as he did in the earliest accounts of the Church and in Scripture where Peter received the "KEYS".
I pray someday that our leaders of the Anglican communion will soon find a way, as long as it is Scripturally prudent and not unity for the sake of unity, to be united with the Catholic Church.
May Truth prevail, may the Truth of Jesus Christ prevail.
It does come down to Authority as MSN stated. This is why conservative Anglicans have always tried to find unity with the Catholic Church, because this is what Jesus wanted. Moreover, we want unity with all our Christian brothers and sisters. We seek unity with the Catholic Church though, because of the Authority and Apostolic origin of this ancient Church.
We Anglicans have some Apostolic origin, but it is very little after 500 years of being sepparated from the original Church. Many Traditional and Conservative Lutherans, Methodists and Anglicans are trying to understand the concept of Authority. As we search the Scriptures and compare our interpretation with that of the earliest accounts we will have unity.
To not consider early Christians and their interpretation of Scripture would be unwise.
Believer,
In the great commission Jesus told them to make Disciples of all nations by Baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The only way you enter the Church as a Christian is by being Baptized.
You simply cannot negate Jesus' command. Unless you are baptized, you are not a Disciple.
Star2,
You never answered MSN's Question. When he provided Scripture to support how Authority is transferred, you skirted answering it directly. Well, you skirted it and started on a whole new topic because you coudn't use Scripture to refute what he said. At least be honest when your church uses man made traditions too and doesn't always follow Scripture. Please don't make a mockery of the Truth. There is only one Truth. Either you or the MSN is correct.
Only a few Priests within the whole Anglican Communion have valid orders and valid authority, so even within my denomination there is a huge disparity of who has authority and who does not. It is because of authority, that the Episcopalians are dying on the vine and why the Anglican Communion today is breaking up at a break neck speed.
Believer,
You seem pretty reasonable at times. Read your Scriptures, but don't just put your spin on it. Do your homework, and what you will find is that without Apostolic Authority and origin your church can not be the mouth piece for Christ and you have no authority to speak for God.
Our Anglican Communion is holding on to our Apostolic Authority and origin by a thumbnail.
msnchris70
Every Church I have been a part of in my adult life has laying on of hands by the Church leadership (Pastor(s), Church Elder(s), Deacons, and sometimes Teachers) for those who have been called into the ministry whether they were called to be a Pastor, Deacon, Church Elder, Missionary, or an Evangelist. The ones that did the laying on of hands were themselves a part of a ceremony where the Pastor and Church leadership laid hands on them when they had their ordination ceremony. And it continues backwards, I'm sure, until the conception of the practice of their Church or denomination by God.
Re: Who is Jesus' Mother?
Matthew 12:46-50
46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Believer,
God's blessing on your journey. Read the Bible everday and love it because it is the HOLY WORD OF GOD and if ANY TRADITION opposes the Word of God, then you must reject it.
You may be an ex-Catholic. Like most ex-Catholics I hope you too find your way home to the only Church that has authority based on SCripture to speak for Jesus Christ. When you do come home to the Catholic Church and take the Eucharist for the first time, your life will be changed forever and you will know that being a non-CAtholic Christian was a good thing for you because it made you search the Scriptures as we all should. IN searching the Scriptures for almost 20 years as a Protestant Pastor myself, I could not help but recognize that my and many other Protestant denominations either skip over or ignore explit parts of Scripture that point directly to the Catholic Church.
It worried me greatly that my denomination varied so greatly with the early Christians on their interpretation of Scripture and their style of Worship. Now, that I am a Catholic I feel that finally I am home. I am home because my church was founded by God, not man. I am home because my interpretation of SCripture matches the interpretations of the earliest Christians who knew the Apostles. I am home, because not one Catholic docrine goes against any part of Scripture and now I can read Scripture from cover to cover and never worry if it doesn't all fit together.