Indiana Jones and the Origin of Life

skylights »

Fri May 30, 2008 11:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I don't know of too many atheists who think "alien seeding" is sufficient to explain life. It has the same problem God has. What created the creator?

steveh20 »

Fri May 23, 2008 12:51 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

Please be assured I would not scoff I think you are quite correct for the assertion you make concerning some peoples beliefs (or lack of them for that point).

But as with Blaises comment , life has taught me that it is very incorrect to tar all people with the same brush. Have you considered that if I or others (I can't be the only one) differ from you it is not because we ignore the evidence before our eyes but that we come to a different conlcusion to you? How do you know I once did not hold to what you do, can people change views, Is that allowed for in your universe? Is It possible that others do not see what you do because it is not there (and of course the same applies to me).

Thank you for asking the question concerning Nietzsche, it does not apply to me, he may have admitted it but I am not him (remember, don't tar with the same brush) , how could you have confused us, I have never hugged a horse in the market place :-)

Kind regards

Steve

schumacr »

Thu May 22, 2008 9:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

steveh20 -

<<Why is it that many don't see that then?>>

I'd respectfully assert it's because you don't want to. Real belief involves much more than mere intellectual assent - it's a matter of the will. Don't scoff - people act contrary to evidence all the time, in many different ways. Pascal said, “People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive.”

This is why Jesus asked his opponents, "Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts." Not minds - hearts. That's where the human 'seat' of willpower is. Nietzsche once admitted, "It is our preference that rules against Christianity, not arguments". Does that describe you?

Pierre JC »

Thu May 22, 2008 3:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

Mr. Palmer puts everything neatly in perspective when he compares the different ways people react to ideas of where life came from , using a logic ("head") versus emotion ("heart"): "Heart: Think about what feelings come from the belief that we are nothing more than a result of undirected mutation which originated from either a scummy pool that got electrified, or a ‘seed’ from an alien race."
And there we have it: Mr. Palmer would have us follow our emotions, even though it is quite clear that reason and evidence are much more reliable that emotion when it comes to discovering what is true and what is false. Sorry, Mr. Palmer. There are many millions of us who will not throw away our greatest capacity as humans to indulge in comforting, infantile fantasies about magical, invisible friends.
And why do believers who question evolution seem so preoccupied that our ancestors were once algae? Yes, algae is not always aesthetically pleasing. Yes, "scum" is used to describe algae, and to serve as an nasty insult. But those who dislike the idea that we descended from one-celled plants like algae seem so hilariously disgusted by this notion as to appear mentally unbalanced. It's as if the conversation goes something like this:
"You are descended from a single-celled plant."
"How dare you call my granddaddy a single-celled plant! That idea is disgusting!"
People, please get a clue, and life, preferably in that order.

steveh20 »

Thu May 22, 2008 2:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Why is it that many don't see that then?

schumacr »

Thu May 22, 2008 2:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

steveh20 -

Not looking for a challenge at all. The point I was making is that you *can* know Who existed before our space/time paradigm came into being. For me, it's fascinating to see how someone can philosophically reason to a conclusion that perfectly matches the revelation of God given in the Bible. No shoe-horning or pushing a square peg into a round hole. General revelation = Special revelation. What a beautiful thing.

steveh20 »

Thu May 22, 2008 12:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I for one can't challenge you because I have no idea of the state of what existed before Planck time, all I do know is that our ideas of spacetime break down completly so I can't even say if the moment of the big bang (hate that phrase as it was not an explosion) was the actual start of the particular universe we happen to inhabit and whether because of the breakdown of spacetime, cause and effect really have any meaning in that situation.

It is something I can live with.

Hope you find the challenger you desire.

Kind regards

Steve

schumacr »

Thu May 22, 2008 9:48 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

First, I’ll also pile on and say the writer of this article’s style isn’t to my liking either. As Christians, we all need to adhere to the “with gentleness and respect” part of 1 Peter 3:15.

As to the issue at hand, I don’t see how positing an alien race for our existence is one that can be seriously clung to apart from God. Two big obstacles to me are the matter of causation and the impossibility of an infinite regress of causes. Instead, I would put forth the following lines of reason:

- Limited, finite, changing beings exist (us and other things)
- The present existence of these beings is caused by another
- There cannot be an infinite regress of causes of being
- Therefore, there is a First Cause of the present existence of these beings
- This First Cause must be infinite, necessary, eternal, simple, personal, and immutable

And it so happens that this First Cause matches up perfectly with the God of the Bible, and not an alien race. Positing an alien race merely pushes the question out a level and does nothing to answer the ultimate question of existence.

I have no doubt some will challenge my last premise above (the others are pretty self-evident I believe) and I’m ready to answer the objections when you are…

steveh20 »

Thu May 22, 2008 12:34 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

Dear Blue

Athesist or Christian or whatever matters not to me, your point is very well made.

Regards

Steve

Chase »

Wed May 21, 2008 8:25 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 0

I must say, I did not completely read your article on this topic. The first section was disrespectful, rude, and insulting. I did not see any charity or Holy Spirit leading in the writing of your comments about elder people. This is not a good example to the youth of our country; showing disrespectful comments about older generations and "Wal-Mart greeters" whom you have no idea if they are on a fixed income and survive on those checks, nor do you know anything about their life situations.

I fully understand that you were trying to be humorous, add light to your article, and entertain (as a writer myself, I understand that article writing must grab the audience) yet your comments have gone astray from the humorous here. In a country that is already disingenuous to elder generations, comments such as these only perpetuate the disrespectful attitude seniors must face every day.

So, as a gentle rebuke of your comments, please remember that REAL people are reading your articles and words are powerful, can be hurtful, and need to be lead by the Spirit. Especially on a Christian news website.

blue1018 »

Wed May 21, 2008 6:28 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

"Several thousand years ago, there was a group of very oppressed slaves who looked around for a sign of hope in their very cruel world. The biggest questions on their mind were:
“Is there really a God, and did He really create all that we see around us?”

You are sadly mistaken my friend... because there were also slaves not even 150 years ago who were oppressed by Christians. In fact, slave owners followed the same rhetoric and morale as authors such as "George Fitzhugh: Cannibals all! Or slaves without masters." They USED the bible to justify their slavery. Farther back, Kings and Queens in Europe ruled by Divine right; justified their society and the HUGE difference between the rich and poor using God.

So suddenly, because I remind you of that, questions arise: Am I an atheist? Am I a Christian? Am I, apparently from your writing style, stupid - probably annoying - uneducated, etc... because I believe that microscopic organisms may have been blasted to Earth by a huge collision between a planetesimal and Mars? I feel no need to tell you what I am, seeing that you write for the Christian post and will probably blast my proud background, but I will tell you this: To call the unconvinced (life has no beginning) and the scientifically excelled (life came from nothing, as did everything else) and their answers as "poor" is wrong. How is that different from your so called atheists calling your little book story, bible, a poor explanation; using simply words and 'trusting' your ancestors? You might feel the need to protest and defend the Bible's Genesis, but I would certainly never call it a poor explanation.