Updated 04:40 pm.EST, Sat November 21, 2009

Opinion|Wed, Jun. 04 2008 07:39 PM EDT

Same-Sex 'Marriage' Today; Polygamy Tomorrow

By Chuck Colson|Christian Post Guest Columnist

Within a week, courts in California and Texas issued rulings that, when it comes to traditional marriage, suggest that the so-called “alarmists” have actually understated the dangers.

The first was the California Supreme Court’s decision In Re Marriage Cases. As you probably know, the court, by a 4-3 vote, overturned the state’s ban on same-sex “marriage.”

The decision swept aside a referendum passed in 2000. By a more than 3-2 margin, voters had approved the referendum that read, “Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid and recognized in California.” The court also concluded that the California domestic-partnership law discriminated against gays.

It did so by finding a “right”—sound familiar?—to marry under the California Constitution. As the majority opinion put it, “An individual’s capacity to establish a loving and long-term committed relationship with another person and responsibly to care for and raise children does not depend upon the individual’s sexual orientation.” Oh my.

If all the talk about “loving and long-term committed relationships” sounds vague to you, you are not alone. In dissent, Justice Marvin Baxter asked, “Who can say that in 10, 15 or 20 years, an activist court might not rely on the majority’s analysis to conclude . . . that the laws prohibiting polygamous and incestuous marriages were no longer constitutionally justified?”

Baxter is right, of course. There is nothing in the California majority opinion that necessarily limits “loving and long-term relationships” to two people, or even people who are unrelated to one another. The biggest impediment is our revulsion at polygamy and incest—revulsions that can be swept aside by activist judges as easily as the millennia-old revulsion toward same-sex “marriage.”

That would only leave the argument that these arrangements pose a threat to the health and well-being of children.

A week later, as if on cue, a Texas appeals court knocked the legs out from underneath that argument. It ruled that the state “overstepped its authority when it removed some of about 460 children from a [much-publicized] polygamist compound” in Texas.

The court ruled that the group’s beliefs, and even its practices, do not put the children in “physical danger.” Neither the court nor the state argued that living in a polygamous setting was, in and of itself, bad for children; their concern was for the potential sexual abuse of underage girls.

Thus, a California court creates a sweeping right to turn any “long-term and loving relationship” into a marriage. And a week later, a Texas court rules that polygamous beliefs, and even practices, are not—per se—harmful to children, unless it puts children in “physical danger.”

To use a suitably biblical phrase, the handwriting is on the wall. The question is: Can we read it? The direction we are headed in is clear.

Happily, there is still a chance to change direction. California voters will vote in a referendum this fall to make “one man, one woman” part of the California constitution. Pray that Christians and right-thinking Californians will turn out in overwhelming numbers to pass this referendum. Because, when it comes to same-sex “marriage,” the four words I never want to say are: “I told you so.”

_________________________________________________

From BreakPoint®, June 4, 2008, Copyright 2008, Prison Fellowship Ministries. Reprinted with the permission of Prison Fellowship Ministries. All rights reserved. May not be reproduced or distributed without the express written permission of Prison Fellowship Ministries. “BreakPoint®” and “Prison Fellowship Ministries®” are registered trademarks of Prison Fellowship

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  • Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:47 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Women's suffrage has been granted at various times in various countries throughout the world. In many countries women's suffrage was granted before universal suffrage, so women (and men) from certain races and social classes were still unable to vote.

    In medieval France and several other European countries, voting for city and town assemblies and meetings was open to the heads of households, regardless of sex. Women's suffrage was granted by the Corsican Republic of 1755 whose Constitution stipulated a national representative assembly elected by all inhabitants over the age of 25, both women (if unmarried or widowed) and men.

    HerZer14 - your viewpoints put women's right abck thousands of years, If your views were law, women wouldn't have the right to vote, wouldn't be able to travel alone without a male relative escorting them, and wouldn't be able to drive.

    mmmmm... Are you sure you aren't Muslim? Your faith sounds scarily similar to Sharia Law!

  • Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    HerZer14:

    Regarding your message on June 8 about men and the marriage:

    Yes, men used to (in Jesus' time), and perhaps still are if they are allowed by law, get rid of their wives and get a new ones whenever they like just by giving a letter to the wives to express their will of divorce with whatever reasons they want. Some men would abuse their right whenever permitted by law.

    1. But what I am talking about in my last message is we shall not judge those men who have multiple wives simultaneously, not those who get rid of current one and get a new one.

    2. Nowadays churches dare not to teach the truth of man is the head of woman, and husband is the head of wife, and looks like this teaching does not exist at all. And this is the problem we all face right now too. And the chaos among today's society is the consequence of this problem too.

    ->Man is created as the image of God and is supposed to be God's rep on earth. Man shall, of course, be serious of what his role and gander is and take full responsibilities of all his own thought, mind, and actions in the world. Husband shall love his wife and even die for her as Christ died for the church.

    ->Woman is created from Man's rib and is assigned as the helper of the Man. Woman is the image of the people, the church, and hence shall be man's body too. A wife shall not look down upon her own husband and shall respect him as the churches (are supposed to) respect Christ.

    These are God's assignment and design and people whoever belong to Him are supposed to follow them unconditionally.

  • Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:49 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Well, insanity isn't statistical.

  • Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:03 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Which countries allow gays to openly serve in the military? Australia, Canada, United Kingdom, Israel, Switzerland among many. In fact, of the 25 countries that participate militarily in NATO, 20 countries allow homosexuals to serve openly in the military.

    Of the 5 U.N. Permanent Security Members, two countries (France and UK) allow homosexuals to openly serve. Interestingly enough, countries which explicitly prohibit gays from openly serving in the military include Cuba, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Yemen and Venezuala.

    The US and Russia have Don't Ask Don;t Tell, but this policy will likely be eliminated in the U.S.
    In fact a Pew Research Public Opinion poll in 2006 showed that 60% of Americans favored allowing gays to openly serve in the military, 31% opposed.

    The Military Readiness Act introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives would enhance the readiness of the U.S. Military by replacing the Don't Ask Policy with a policy of nondiscrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

  • Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    What words have I put in who's mouth now?

  • Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    proph: sometimes I wonder if in your heart you are a Christian, you put words in other people's mouths, make wild accusations, determine who is and isn't a Christian. Have you no shame?

  • Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Do you concur, ifeelfine?

  • Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    ifeelfine,
    Yes, and you must remember that incestuous marriages and marriages among/with minors are acceptable to God.

  • Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    hlerwin - So then, tell us your real name - cause I know who actually said that.

    BTW proph, only God has the Truth and with 3000 denominations we can't all be right

  • Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    And the exact same thing could be said about you Prophet - or any Christian for that matter.

  • Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:44 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    When someone says something that ifeelfine agrees with...it is truth. When someone says something he doesn't agree with...it is an interpretation. Ifeelfine is a victim of his own accusations.

  • Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:07 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Or - For biggie: I read in the news that Israel allows homosexuals in the military. How many countries do this? For ifeelfine72: The Bible reveals less about God than it does about ourselves. It reveals what we want to defend, what we want to attack, what we want to ignore, what we're unwilling to question . . . I actually wrote that.

  • Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:05 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    For biggie: I read in the news that Israel allows homosexuals in the military. How many countries do this? For ifeelfine72: Th eBible reveals less about God than it does about ourselves. It reveals what we want to defend, what we want to attack, what we want to ignore, what we're unwilling to question . . . I actually wrote that.

  • Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:54 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Our interpretations reveal less about God or the Bible than they do about ourselves. They reveal what we want to defend, what we want to attack, what we want to ignore, what we're unwilling to question . . . I wish I actually wrote that.

  • Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:03 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    God help us! Look how far this spiritual sin has proliferated! We need to pray for God's glory to be made manifest in the earth. Let his mercy fall upon those who chose to embrace sin that they may turn from it. Sin has run rampant through our world, but the Gospel of His salvation runs just as fast. Let us show that people don't have to be in bondage to their sin. They don't have to accept death. That there is another way, and that way is Jesus Christ. He brings life, and delivers us from our bondage. He makes all things new. Pray for all those countries that biggie listed, that the true Gospel would be spread, and that the people would fall on their face in repentance. And that God would hear them, and bring salvation to them.

  • Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:56 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    i flagged myself.

  • Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:11 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The following is a list of all the countries, states and jurisdictions that recognize same sex marriages, civil unions and partnerships. The list discredits Seedplanter's claim that no civilization or culture in the history of humankind has ever given equal status to homosexual unions.

    Legal recognition of Same-sex marriage
    - Belgium -Canada -Netherlands -South Africa -Spain

    Recognized in some regions
    - United States (MA, CA eff. 2008-6-16 at 5:01 p.m.)

    Foreign marriages recognized
    -Aruba -Israel -Netherlands Antilles -United States (NM, NY, RI)

    Civil unions and registered partnerships
    - Andorra -Czech Republic -Denmark -Finland -France -Germany -Hungary (eff. 2009-1-1) -Iceland -Luxembourg -New Zealand -Norway -Slovenia -Sweden -Switzerland -United Kingdom -Uruguay

    Recognized in some regions
    - Argentina (C, R, VCP) -Australia (TAS, SA, ACT, VIC eff. 2008-12-1) -Brazil (RS) -Canada (QC) -Mexico (Coah., DF) -United States (CA, CT, DC, HI, ME, NH, NJ, OR, VT, WA)

    Wow! Look how many countries, states and jurisdiction support treating gays and lesbians who love each other with legal recognition of their love!

    OK nay-sayers, when are you going to get off your hate-train, and get on board with the love that two same-sex persons can express for each other? Open your hearts! Welcome love into your souls!

  • Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:19 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ifeelfine,

    It is J E S U S that we will stand before and give an account, not prophet, not yourself or even me. Jesus was no hypocrite. He did however show compassion toward us all by bearing our sins and shame, hanging naked on a tree. When we make light of it by trampling the blood that He shed, well let’s just consider the warning that judgment begins in the house of the Lord (and that's New Testament). I would be afraid to stand in the bishop's shoes when he has to give account to the one who died for his sins, in which his reaction is to flaunt his sins and make a public spectacle of himself, his church as well as the church at large. There will be more tolerance for Sodom and Gomorrah on the Day of Judgment then for those who reject the Gospel of God.

    “Sodom had no Bible” –Leonard Ravenhill

  • Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    seedplanter,

    Sexual sin is THE most prolific and destructive sin there is. And it takes many forms....adultery, fornication, homosexuality, incest, beastiality, polygamy, lust. And it affects almost all men, and many women. It's been around since time began. King David was guilty of adultery (and used murder to cover it up). Samson let "love" (actually thats what the world calls it...it's actually just lust) destroy him. And sexual sin is the hardest to cut out. Sexual addiction is by far more intense than even cocaine, crank, meth, or any other drug there is. I've talked to a number of men who are recovering drug addicts. They agree. The said that their drug habit was hard to kick, but their sex addiction was/is next to impossible to overcome. "But with God, nothing is impossible."
    But homosexuals say that it has nothing to do with sex...its a "love" issue. That's what makes it so much more wrong. It goes beyond a physical sin, into a spiritual sin. Perfect love that God created for one man and one woman has been twisted and raped into something cheap and worthless. And yet, these same homosexuals who claim it's a love thing, refuse to acknowlege that a man can love more than one wife, or that a brother can love his sister, or that a father can romantically love his daughter. To which they argue "but incest breeds physically and mentally handicapped children." Those are the same homosexuals who say that marriage isn't about sex or procreation (otherwise, homosexuality would be the first to go since no offspring can be created out of a homosexual relationship). So you see the double standard and rhetoric that come from homosexual proponents. They say "We want in the door for the right to be married....but no one else can." How tolerant. How loving. How hypocritical.

  • Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Thanks Prophet!

    I wanted to point out that the article I posted was written by Dr. Charlie Self, not I; as much as I would like to take credit for the insightful observations made.

    I was also emphasizing the necessity for revival today considering the rising tide of sexual stimulants in our society today. It seems that the line of demarcation is getting broader and broader of what is acceptable, as the other CP article noted that Bishop Robinson was recently joined in homosexuality union. We need to be rescued from religious mediocrity and get a dose of reality in the power of the Holy Spirit, where men are convicted of sin once again and repentance is thundered from the pulpits to the street corners.

  • Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    seeplanter,
    There seems to be something that happens every once in a while. I was writing on one post. I visited it one day and EVERY post had dissappeared. They weren't flagged. They were gone, l ike they hadn't even been written. Ive heard other people complain about the same thing.

  • Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I must admit that #5 from "seedplanter" does seem to be true, which is curious -- and sort of pathetic.

  • Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Hmmmm....

    It looks like my last post was completely removed. I wonder why. I have never had problems with CP before. Maybe it was a glitch in the system?

  • Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    .

  • Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Is America still a world power? Maybe militarily for now. But that's about it.

    "Experts name Russian ruble world's most promising currency"
    "Experts have described the Russian ruble as the world’s most promising currency. World’s leading banks recommended to snap up Russian rubles, since under the current conditions it is one of the most lucrative investments, Bloomberg said. The recommendations are based on expectations that Russia's new President Dmitry Medvedev will take a course for strengthening the ruble against the world’s currencies. At the same time the dollar is going up against the euro, BUT IT PROVED TO BE INSUFFICIENT TO TRUST IN THE US CURRENCY..." http://english.pravda.ru/business/finance/06-05-2008/105095-ruble-0

    There is even speculation of the "Amero" which is the western hemisphere's version of the Euro. It will be a single currency that is used by Canada, America, Mexico, and South America. Nothing concrete yet, but there's a lot of hubbub going on about it. Everyting is pointing towards a one world system....
    We are $54 trillion in debt. China owns half of America. They own most of our toll roads as it is. Our ports are operated by a foreign country sympathetic to terrorists. Where's this all going? I know.

  • Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    seedplanter,
    That #5 is so true. When a heterosexual wants to become gay the world applaudes them. When the gay man wants to be straight the world condemns him. Go figure.

    And you said "When the exceptions become the rules, the collapse of civilization is inevitable." And that is the path that America is heading...and the rest of the world is on our feet. The downfall of America is near. It wont be because of a foreign army or terrorists. It will be because of ourselves.

  • Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:01 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    page 2

    Eight: We must decide what actions we are going to permit, prohibit and promote as a nation. Where do we draw the line? How young is too young for "marriage"? How many partners? The California "Supremes" have undermined the unique place of heterosexual monogamy - we now have no standard except the one we "feel" at the moment!


    The current (justifiable) outrage at the polygamous cult in Texas reveals a core morality we share: 1) it is wrong to have more than one marriage partner; 2) It is wrong for adults to have sexual relations with minors; and 3) not any family setup is acceptable.


    It is morally inconsistent to promote gay/lesbian unions as equal to traditional ones while condemning another group's moral universe!


    Here is Insight Nine: The deeper subversion behind the Supremes' decision is the destruction of any religious foundations to morality and another blow to the Judeo-Christian consensus that is the bedrock of law for 400+ years in the West.


    If the Texas group has been a gay-lesbian-transgender new age/pagan/secular commune in the California mountains, outrage would last a day and be forgotten. Eventually the leaders would be the subject of term papers in "gay studies" courses at prestigious universities!


    The Texas cult must be shut down and the children given all the help we can muster. The leaders should be prosecuted for statutory rape.


    Throughout history, consenting adults have privately chosen to depart from social norms. When the exceptions become the rules, the collapse of civilization is inevitable.


    Please note that I have not quoted religious documents or party platforms. There is no need - thoughtful people will see through the agendas and vote to amend the California Constitution in November.


    Get involved in making sure that the California Constitution recognizes the inherent value of rightly-defined marriage - a monogamous, lifetime union between one man and one woman.

    http://insightsforimpact.blogspot.com/

  • Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:00 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    I found a rather insightful observation on the issue.

    The recent California Supreme Court Decision to support gay marriage is an arrogant exercise in expedience that threatens the foundations of civilized society.


    I do not need to resort to histrionics or homophobia - here are the clear issues.


    One: No civilization or culture in the history of humankind has ever given equal status to homosexual unions.


    Two: there is no incontrovertible proof of a genetic disposition to homosexuality.


    Three: Civil Rights are a subset of natural rights - protecting the freedom of people who have no choice about their gender or race.


    Four: The radical activists have a visceral hatred for what they see as "heterosexist oppression" and their strategy is to destroy the traditional family and substitute it with government control.


    Five: If you are a traditional family man or woman and later "come out" as gay or lesbian, the world celebrates your "discovery." But woe to the gay man or lesbian woman who wants to change - any therapist encouraging such change is subject to professional sanction!


    Six: Gay/Lesbian radicals must actively recruit through schools and the media in order to swell their ranks of adherents. They often talk of the fluidity of gender and contrast the "gender assigned at birth" with the chosen lifestyle of later years. Granting Civil Rights to current chosen behavior flies in the face of the universal principles that secure real liberty!


    Seven: We are creating generations of confused, narcissistic, and self-destructive people. It is one thing not to prosecute private adult behavior - it is quite another to promote identities and lifestyles that ultimately destroy our future.

  • Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:34 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    biggie,
    So you will support and promote polygomy and incestuous marriages?

  • Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:20 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Let's look at the underlying premise of this article. Fear, fear, and more fear. Honestly, I am surprised that the author didn't try to scare Christian with more horror stories of what's next. Trying to equate gay marriage with polygamy misses the boat. Help me understand what the fuss is all about. How is it that two gay men who obviously love each other and want to share the rest of their lives together forming a family and raising children, how does that harm society? What are we defending? If marriage is sacred, then lets offer it to everyone who charishes monagomy and wish to love each other. America, wake up! Since the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2003's historic Lawrence vs Texas case to make anti-gay sodomy laws unconstitutional, gays like it or not have earned the right to have a seat at the table. Homosexuality is no longer illegal in the U.S.A. It is a fact that must be dealt with, like it or not. Now, the rational human being who favors stability over chaos, will ask: what is the best way to integrate homosexuals into society? Afterall, we can't ban them. We can't make their behavior illegal. Don't you see its a losing battle to fight monogamy for homosexuals. Gay marriage is the right thing for America because it is what is best for society. Society doesn't benefit by banishing homosexuals to the shadows. Society benefits by welcoming gays and lesbians into the mainstream fabric of our culture. American has always been a melting pot. Whether it was the Irish, the Germans, the Polish, or Indians, Pakistanis, Nigerians, or now the Gays. We welcome. We integrate. And you know what, or society becomes stronger, and better for it. I urge all Christians to reconsider their views on Gay Marriage. Welcome stability of two people who love each other and want to commit the rest of their lives together. Welcome the fact that gay couples can raise children just as well as anyone else. And that a family built on love will serve society well. Finally, admit that Gays can in fact love each other. To state that homosexuality is all about sex, focuses incorrectly that these couples are unable to love, charish, and honor each other. Grow up America. These are adults who love each other. Its time that we put our money where our faith is, and support the right for their love to be counted as equal to anyone elses.

  • Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    Jesus said in Matthew 19:5 "And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?"
    A MAN will cleave to his WIFE.....hmmm.
    Or did he say a MAN or WOMAN will cleave to HIS or HER PARTNER.
    If God intended homosexuality to be acceptable, he would have pointed that out. C'mon...use some common sense.
    Gays haven't been led by the Holy Spirit to believe that Jesus condoned homosexuality. Being too lazy to change, and the attempt to justify their sin, is what leads them to believe that Jesus condones homosexuality.

  • Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet, how do you know that Jesus does not condone homosexuality? In reading scripture, have never been led by the Holy Spirit to consider Jesus's opinion on this topic. But I know gay Christians who have. How do you know your convictions are the only correct ones?

  • Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    well, hlerwin,
    Shows how little you know of Jesus. He does love, and he is patient in that he waits and waits and waits for us to turn from our sins and come to him. But he does not condone homosexuality. And so he waits for the homosexual to turn from their sin and have a relationship with him. Those who sanction and promote sin, and yet profess to be Christians, serve a god (yes...lower case g) who is man made into whatever image they choose.
    I serve a God (upper case G...the only true God) who bows to no man and answers to no man. He is a God of eternal love....but also justice. And sin will be dealt with in time. His Words are life.

  • Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:28 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    If Jesus were living today, I think he'd be pro-happiness, pro-commitment, pro-gay marriage. (No need for anyone to respond, "But he IS alive!" You know what I mean.)

  • Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    diogenes,
    You have absolutely no knowledge of the Bible. None. Zero. Otherwise, something so simple and blatant would not have escaped your attention.

    Jesus said in Matthew 19:5 "And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?"
    Let's look at how Jesus "did not say one man and one woman."

    "For this cause A (single, one, individual) man will leave his mother and father and will cling to his WIFE (single, one, individual) and they TWAIN (two, dos, ONE of each gender) will become one."
    So, no, I'm not adding any words. Just speaking the truth.
    Before you attempt to discuss spirituatl matters.....you must first be spiritual minded....which you are not.

  • Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet: As for your question about how to enter the kingdom of heaven, there is only one way, John 3:16 is your answer.

  • Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Jesus never said ONLY one man and one woman, you're adding that word, prophet

  • Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I may be in the minority here, but I think there is a parallel between the 1949 song from South Pacific and today's "homophobia" (for lack of a better word). The Broadway play received scrutiny for its commentary regarding relationships between different races and ethnic groups. In particular, "You’ve Got to Be Carefully Taught" was subject to widespread criticism, judged by some to be too controversial or downright inappropriate for the musical stage. Sung by the character Lieutenant Cable, the song is preceded by a lyric saying racism is "not born in you! It happens after you’re born..." Rodgers and Hammerstein risked the entire South Pacific venture in light of legislative challenges to its decency or supposed Communist agenda. While on a tour of the Southern United States, lawmakers in Georgia introduced a bill outlawing entertainment containing "an underlying philosophy inspired by Moscow." One legislator said that "a song justifying interracial marriage was implicitly a threat to the American way of life." Rodgers and Hammerstein defended their work strongly. James Michener, upon whose stories South Pacific was based, recalled, "The authors replied stubbornly that this number represented why they had wanted to do this play, and that even if it meant the failure of the production, it was going to stay in." (Much of this borrowed from wikipedia....)

  • Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:31 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Jesus told that man to do that...pay attention. If you study the Bible you'll see that He gave different people different answers when they asked how to enter into the kingdom of heaven...
    Tell me why.

  • Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Has God told me to do that?

  • Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:07 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I meant to say "sell all your stuff and give the money to the poor."

  • Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    And in virtually the same breath he also said to sell all your stuff, have any of you done that? Or have any of you become socialist / communist like the Christians in Acts?

  • Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The commitment to follow Jesus is a yoke that dissuades people becoming a Christian? Christian means "Christ-like". It's the ones that do not make commitment to Christ, but yet go to church, that are religious.
    Jesus Himself said "If any man is to follow me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me."

  • Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I think that because of religious yokes in christianity like the commitment to follow Christ or the Promise Keeper's program, sinners do not see it in themselves to change, and thus walk away from christianity, thinking it as a religion... as in what is in the power of man to do. So if they fail to deal with sin having dominion over their lives, then what choice do they have, but go to the political arena? This is nothing more but a rationalizing attempt in seeking to win acceptance in the public's eye, thereby hoping to gain acceptance in their own eyes for sin having dominion over their lives. So the church needs to do away with these ridiculous religious guantlets if they expect sinners to see their hopes in the Lord to deliver them from their sins for that is what He came to do. It was never about us or how serious we are as it was about Him and how serious He is to us in helping us to live as His as well as being saved to be His.

    John 6: 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    John 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    Romans 10:12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

    Believers should stop talking about themselves in their commitments to follow Christ and start talking about the real christianity where our faith and hopes are in Jesus Christ to save us from our sins and to help us live as His by faith for He promised He would. How else would sinners call on the Lord Jesus for deliverance unless we declare our faith in Him and not in ourselves?

  • Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:32 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    shengrenqiu

    Your comment on the passage about the elders being the only ones required to have one wife was taken out of context. Back in the old days of Moses men could divorce their wives for any reason by giving them a letter of divorce sort of speak. Then they would end up having in some cases several wives throughout their lives and in most cases the divorced woman was ostricized from the community and left lacking sustent.

    That kind of mentality still prevailed through the first century and when Jesus was asked about divorce as permitted by Moses He replied that, "it was because of the hardness of their heart" (in other words, God did not want to permit it but He knew they would do it anyways with or without permission).

    The requirements for elders/bishops/overseers did not mean that kind of conduct would be ok for the rest of the congregation; it meant that because they were in a leadership position they were then expected to live by a higher standard- a standard that God desired for everyone.

    Back in Genesis 3 we can see that God's original intent was for a (one) man to leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife (one) to become one flesh.

  • Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    A Californian family has unveiled the latest version of family life - a marriage of four.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2083216/Four-better-or-four-worse-for-marriage-of-four.html

  • Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    xizwyck,

    I'm still laughing about your twinkie comparison. That is too funny. Amen though.

  • Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Here we go again. Let see, the first time we redefined marriage, we ushered in the "divorce culture". The cost to society has been staggering. Just look at the result of broken homes and their impact on our schools, prisons, etc. How much will this new redefining of marriage costs us?

  • Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Just kidding. I'm a happily married biologically born male to one biologically born female in a God ordained and blessed union. Divorce is not an option.

  • Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    I'm commited to eating food. Does that mean I can marry my Twinkie?

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