INDIANAPOLIS – Georgia pastor Johnny M. Hunt was elected Tuesday to be the next president of the Southern Baptist Convention.
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(Photo: The Christian Post)Pastor Johhny Hunt speaks at a press conference Tuesday after being announced as the next president of the Southern Baptist Convention.
Hunt, a Native American who pastors the megachurch First Baptist Church of Woodstock, Ga., received nearly 53 percent of the vote of over 5,000 SBC messengers – representatives of local SBC churches – during SBC’s annual meeting and was enthusiastically received at a time of decline.
“My heart and passion is to see as many people as possible embrace Jesus Christ as their personal savior,” Hunt said at a press conference after his election was announced. He also expressed passion to have churches fully involved in spreading the Gospel.
After years of being asked to lead the largest Protestant denomination in the country, Hunt sensed a calling to accept the nomination this year. Hunt, who was among six nominees, succeeds the Rev. Frank Page who served two one-year terms.
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IHS
If I am so misguided as you claim that I am then why don't you go tell God about it in prayer and ask Him to straighten me out.
msnchris
Your heart is not right with God. All those things you accuse me of you are the most quilty of.
James 3:13-17
13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Star2,
You should follow your own advice in getting your heart right! You are all about drama and when you can't back up what you say, your feelings get hurt and you can't handle anyone disagreeing with you.
This is probably the only place where people are forced to hear what you have to say. Turn over a new leaf and READ ALL OF SCRIPTURE instead of just places where it agrees with what you think.
IHS
Get your heart right with God before you try to correct me.
msnchris70
Re: She is like many Fundamentalists who church shop to try and find a church that fits her own views,
How little you know about me. Below is my personal testimony in how I seek God in finding the Church He would have me attend and serve in. i shared it with another CP poster who didn't want to attend Church because the people didn't live their life in accordance with the Bible.
Ms CP Poster:
God's Word admonishes us to assemble ourselves together to worship God (Heb 10:25). God further says that He gives each believer gifts that are to be used to minister to the Church body and He places the believer in a Church according to His will (1 Cor 12:18). God's Word also says that if we pray according to His will He will hear us and will answer us(1 John 5:14-15).
You will not find a perfect Church. There will always be something about that Church you will not like. The people may not be as loving as you think they should be,you may have some doctrinal differences, the Pastor may not be the best preacher, or whatever. However, that should not keep you from going to Church.
My main problem with Churches is doctrine. It is very hard to find a Church whose doctrine aligns itself with what I believe scriptures teaches. However, I pray about where God would have me go. He leads me to a Church of His choosing. I am always happy in the Church God leads me to even though I would not have selected the Church in the natural (on my own). God finds a place of service for me according to the gifts He gives me. He also blesses me through the membership of that Church with the gifts He has given them.
Do you really want to go to Church and worship God? Is God's will important to you? If yes, then I encourage you to seek God as to where He would have you go. He will answer you. God has done many times and will do it again for me and I know He can and will do it for you.
Psalm 150:1 - "Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary..."
Hebrews 10:24-25:
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
1 Corinthians 12:18 - "But now hath God set the members evey one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him."
1 John 5:14-15
14nd this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
Star2,
Maybe if you offered more than just your opinion it would be helpful. Grow up. You are going to report MSNCHRIS? It is much like you are going to tell 'MOMMY" on him.
Let's be honest. All you've done for the past two months that I've seen is be exactly what MSN described you as; belligerant, divisive, etc.
If you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen as they say. I've read a lot of posts here and you are a bigot towards Catholicism. I and other evangelicals do not appreciate it in the least. I am not Catholic, nor care to be, but your treatment of a fellow Christian is horrible. Why don't you look in the mirror for your less than charitable treatment of Catholics on this website. Just because you say they are not Christians doesn't mean your opinion is worth anything. The Majority of all Protestants, from a lot of research done on this topic, would concur that Catholics are Christians. Some Protestants might even say they were the first Christians.
You basically are a bigot towards Catholics and Orthodox. You are probably against Lutherans, Methodists and Episcopalians too. So, in just one fell swoop you think 80% of Christianity isn't Christian. If you called a Mormon a non-Christian then everyone would agree with you. However, the way you handle your speech is not coming from a kind and loving heart from what I read.
If you can't offer anymore than your own personal interpretation, then move on. Offer some historical insights or maybe some quotes from highly regarded evangelicals to support your cause. Please stop being a Catholic hater!
Ok msnchris70, I am going to report you to CP. I have enough of your ungodly name calling.
Star2,
You don't like what I wrote or EvanCal or IHS. All three of us exposed you personally for being exactly what you are; belligerant, egomaniacle, divisive. We described you as having little ability to offer any critical analysis and that your own personal interpretation is your god.
You attack my faith when you come at the RCC. You attack the Church that Christ built, then I will defend her.
When will it hit you that you are ill-equiped to be in a conversation that goes beyond your own personal interpretation. I have a lot of respect for Protestants in general because they earnestly seek Truth. They bother to get an education, so they can be better equiped to teach the Gospel.
Fundamentalist like you reject education because then your house of cards will fall. You won't accept the coucil of your fellow Protestants who are Pastors, then why would I ever think you would listen to a Catholic who was a former Protestant Pastor. You reject obediance to the authority that God put over you and that is as plain as day from Scripture.
Star2,
Even your fellow Protestants think you are off base. When oh when are you going to get a reality check. Oh no, that reality check might blow your whole interpretation house of cards down so avoid reality at all costs!!!
Faith without reason and intellect equals Star2. Fanaticism with emotional outbursts with no education also equals Star2.
The only area I'll ever agree with Star2 is on most moral question; abortion, gay marriage, etc
. She is not willing to look at anything other than her own opinion. She is like many Fundamentalists who church shop to try and find a church that fits her own views, rather than finding a church that has the correct views and making sure that she is not in error.
She mentioned a lot of things above that would sure get a lot of disagreement by Lutherans, Methodists and Anglicans and probably a few Presbyterians too in some areas.
IHS
Your advice is as foolish as msnchris70 and EvanCal.
If you can't see that praying to dead saints is not scriptual, that praying the rosary is not scriptual, that Mary is the Queen of heaven is not scriptual,giving the title of Holy Father to the Pope is blasphemous, saying that Jesus is actually bodily in the Eucharist is not scriptual, that infantile baptism is not scriptual, that having your priest slap you on the face and say receive ye the Holy Ghost is not scriptual, that you have no authority to be a pastor if you don't have the laying on of the hands by the suppose Apostolic succession that the RCC claims to have is not scriptual, that there is a puratory you most likely will go to to be purged of your sins you didn't get forgiven for before you died is not scriptual, then you do not understand the Word of God. You will most likely fall for the end time Apostate Church and be forever damned if God doesn't rescue out of that abominable Church.
I would advise you to go to God and find out from Him what is truth and what is error and whether you should even stay in that seminary that teaches you falsehood.
Star2,
I'm happy for you that you go by the WORD OF GOD in the Bible. For me, the Bible is the only Truth I follow. If a church has a belief outside of Scripture, then it should be tested to see if it denies or contradicts Scripture within the context. If it denies Scripture or contradicts it, taking all of Scripture into account(Old & New), then it should be rejected.
I've have studied the early church, Catholicism and Orthdox. I have yet to find one doctrine that denies that Christ is Lord, that Christ is our only mediator, that we are saved only through Jesus, that by Grace we will be saved and that we worship a triune God and the substitutionary atonement Christ gained for us by His merit. Not one Catholic belief negates or contradicts these main core beliefs of Christianity. I'm sorry, but I actually went through every doctrine in trying to prove Catholicism was not only an apostate and anti-Christ religion but that it was just a complete joke of a faith. I was proved wrong!
I am not a Catholic and nor to I care to be one, but I encourage you not to act like the Devil in throwing out scripture that is manipulated towards your uncharitable opinion of Catholicism. You know the Devil manipulated Scripture too.
In my few years at Seminary I have run into people like you. Now, I don't know if you are female or male but I would guess you are a woman or if you are a man then I would guess you really enjoy drama. Stop the drama and your emotional use of Scripture and lean not on your own understanding but seek the wisdom of the Scriptures through the Holy Spirit. You lack logic and critical method for analysis, and you overcompensate by being dramatic.
I would agree with past posts of others. Seek help and also get an education. It helped soften my approach and also gave me a new perspective. If your truth is really truth, then it can stand the test of Scripture without subjectivism.
IHS
What I said to msnchris70 on a another article, I say to you:
The Word of God is my standard for what truth is (John 17:17). I measure what people say up against what the Word of God says. If the teaching/practice/opinion of man does not align itself with the Word of God I reject it.
The teachings and practices of the RCC are not scriptual. Therefore, I reject them.
I will earnestly contend for the faith that has been delivered to me by God (Jude 3).
I seek God for the understanding of His Word (John 14:26, John 16:13). He teaches me His truths or gives me understanding of His Word in many different ways. Being taught by God through the Holy Ghost was not limited to the Apostles. The Apostle John told the believers in his first epistle that they did not need any man to teach them but that as the anointing (Holy Ghost) taught them so shall they abide.(1 John 2:27). No human being is going to deny me my right as a child of God to be taught by God through the Holy Ghost in Jesus' name. As God has taught me so shall I abide.
IHS, you have been deceived. Ask God to help you know what is truth and what is error.
(I flagged myself to delete as few statements.)
Star two,
I am a seminarian student who is hoping to be a Pastor someday. What I've learned at seminary has changed many pre-conceived and mischaracterizations of the Catholic Church, Orthodox and other Protestants too. Without an objective search for Truth, your comments are solely based on subjectivism without any context, historical analysis or any other academic way to discern Truth. Saying you go by the Holy Spirit doesn't prove the Holy Spirit is guiding you any less than He guides others, so you must take a further approach to support your beliefs and this is what you won't do because your scriptural interpretation will probably fall apart.
You see, I do believe Christ is the only Truth we need. So, by studying everthing we can and with the help of the Holy Spirit guiding us in that study we can come closer to the actual truth, rather than our own subjective view based on little more than emotional opinion.
As a fellow Christian, I would ask you to either offer a critical approach to Scripture or please stop giving us all your opinion as the paramount truth making a mockery of Scripture.
I recently thought as you did that Catholics were apostate as of only a short time ago. I was wrong for many reasons, but I was willing to search truth objectively rather than getting any bias involved. My seminary has a group of schools all from different Christian Traditions, and now that I know what they REALLY believe as opposed to what I thought they believed, I stand corrected. I stand corrected because of TRUTH, because TRUTH IS CHRIST.
Peace Star two.
msnchris70
'judgments against me' should read 'judgements of me'
msnchris70
I lump all Orthodox Churches (Greek, Eastern, Russian, etc) and Coptics in with the RCC.
msnchris70
Your heart is not right with God. Your judgments against me are out of place. Repent or perish!
EvanCal
You are out of line in your judgements against me.
chris, feel free to put feet to the fire as well if I should speak out of turn, your friend in Christ, believer
Believer brought up a good point and good for you Chris in responding back charitably. Now that is how Christians of the Body of Christ should handle each other.
MSNCHRIS,
It is a waste of time to deal with Star2 or Online or Wilderness or Swordbearer. They are like children with massive ego's and they do lack any foundational education to offer a truly academic and critical analysis. They always react emotionally and throw Scriptures out of context at you and others who don't go along with what they said. They are neither conservative or liberals, they are heterodox in most everything that they spew out.
As a Reformed Minister, I rebuke you Star2. Seek help.
Believer,
Thank you for your accountability of me. I will do better in the future. Mia Culpa, maxima mia culpa. You are in my prayers.
Because of Jesus,
+Chris
Star2,
You are an extremist and a fundamentalist. You represent a small minority of people who like Online are so high in ego you couldn't see the truth if it hit you. You are both well undereducated, so your ability to critically look at something from an objective standpoint is near impossible with your bigoted eyes.
You treat the Catholic Church like it was the time of the Reformation. You don't say that the Orthodox are lost, or the Lutherans or the Anglicans or the Methodists or the Oriental Orthodox or the Coptics do you? These Churches represent almost 80% of all of Christianity and we Catholics have more in common with them on core Christian teachings than you do.
You are a relativist, you are bearer of false witness, you do not follow the Holy Spirit you follow your God of the EGO. I've never been suprised even when I was a Pastor when a person in my church who had been a Christian for 3 days comes up to me and says, "Pastor I think you are wrong about a certain Scripture." I charitably said, "I would be happy to discuss the Scripture with you, but we will have to do more than go by what you feel. We will need to study the context, the language it was said in, why it was said and who was the audience and what did this type of speech mean at the time it was said." They guy looked at me and said, "I don't care about those things, I think it means this and I am guided by the Holy Spirit so Pastor you must be wrong."
Star2,
You are a child. When you grow up and can offer some sort of objective analysis I'll know that God is working in you. The vast majority of leaders of the Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican, Church of Christ, Presbyterian, Reformed Churches, Methodist, Evangelicals and many more see Catholics as fellow Christians, so either 80-90% of Christianity is wrong or you are.
The Holy Spirit is proved not to work with everyone since the Holy Spirit is the God of Truth, and one of is definitely wrong. I'll stick with the Church that was founded by Christ and promised by Christ to never fail.
msnchris70
Part 1
I still stand by my statement that Pope Paul John II was an idol worshipper, a weak spiritual leader, and did not accept God's Word by faith.
Re:The Blessed Mother, was the most nurturing mother of the Church and the best example of a follower of Christ.
Where in Scripture does it say that?
Re: Mary always points to Jesus and tells you to do whatever He says.
Where in the Bible does it say that? The only time she made a statement like that is when she was at a wedding her Son was at and she wanted Him to turn the water into wine and she told the servants to do what He said to do. Nowhere else does she make such a statement.
Also, there was a time in Jesus' ministry when His mother and brothers wanted to see (talk)Him but couldn't because there were too many people around the house He was in. Someone came in and told Him that His mother and brothers were outside and wanted to see Him. He looked around and said that anyone who hears the Word of God and does it is His mother, brother, and sister. (Luke 8:19-21)
Scripture doesn't say that Jesus went out to talk with His mother but he probably did. However, we can see from this incident that she did not have an elevated position in the Kingdom of God over anyone else. Anyone who does the will of God in the Kingdom of God, is His mother, brother, and sister. They are all on equal footing with Mary in the kingdom of God.
msnchris70
Part 2
Re: Mary is our Mother and became our Mother when Jesus gave His mother to John and John to His Mother.
Mary was a widow. Jesus was the eldest son. It was His responsiblity to take care of his mother since she had no husband. Since He was going to die,He gave her to John so that he could take care of her. Jesus knew that John was the best one out of His disciples to take care of his mother.
Re: Mary was Mother of the Apostles and all the Disciples(THE CHURCH),
Where is that in the Bible?
Re:and she is your Mother too.
She is not my Mother.
Jesus said that anyone who hears the Word of God and does it is His mother, brother, and sister (Luke 8:10-21).
Jesus promised to give believers mothers, brothers, and sisters if they follow Him (Mark 10:28-30).
Thus, in the family of God, all who walk in obedience to the will of God is my mother, brother, and sister.
Re: The more you love Mary for who she is, the more you will be drawn into a deeper relationship with our Lord.
Not so. The more you walk in obedience to Jesus Christ the more you will be drawn into a deeper relationship with Him (John 14:21, 14:23, John 15:14).
Re:. If you choose to lie about that, then you will be judged for bearing false witness.
Praying to Mary or any dead saint is not scriptual.
RE:You probably need to think we worship Mary, so that you can ignorantly stay outside of Christ Church.
I would never join your Church because of its false teachings.
Re:Pray for your eyes to be unblinded from your bias.
This, my friend, is what you need to do.
I seek God for understanding of the Scripture. I am teachable and I am willing to change what I believe as God through the Holy Ghost teaches me differently.
Are you?
chris, you disappoint me here you don't even know what Johnny Hunt's role is as the President of the Southern Baptist Convention is and you are giving him down the road, basically accusing him of not being a man of God or at least not as good a man of God as a catholic priest would be. As a Christian friend I would ask you to please do your homework before you give those of us who are outside the catholic church down the road in the future, thanks believer.
msnchris70
On or about the time of Mother theresa death it was made known that Mother Theresa experienced spiritual desolation. An article about her life was published. It said that Mother Theresa's spiritual emptyness began on her train ride to Calcutta to start her missions work and that emptyness lasted all her life. Her spiritual desolation was not a result of depression.
Many articles have been writtne about Mother Theresa while she was alive. One of those articles said that she was talking with a bunch of hindus, buddahists, muslim, and etc. She told them that if they are a good 'whever religion they were' that they would go to Heaven because all religions lead to God. That is heresay. Jesus said that he was the only way to God. He did not say that he was 'a' way to God.
Personally, I believe that the RCC doesn't have a clue about how to be born-again. The teachings and practices of the Church in regard to salvation is not scriptual. I believe that 99.4% of the members of the Catholic Church are lost. The 0.6% that could possibly be saved joined the Chruch after they were saved in a Protestant Church or an extremely small percentage were actually born-again scriptually while raised in the RCC.
msnchris70
Part 1
Re:I've met many wonderful Protestant Pastors in my years, and I know if they were not married that they could be even more devoted to God's people in their chosen vocation.
I thank God that my Pastor, who is now retired, was married because the needs that I, a female, had only a female could meet. If my Pastor had been single then my needs would have gone unmet.
Now I have had at one time a Pastor who was single. The needs that I had at that time he was able to meet as a single man. However, he did marry later.
Scripture teaches that a Bishop is to be the husband of one wife (1 Tim 3:2). This is Paul's teaching under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. There is wisdom in a Pastor being married because there are females in his Church that need spiritual counceling or help that only another female can minister to.
re:When you are married, like Paul said, you have to manage the cares of your wife and children. As a celibate person you can focus all your love and attention to God and His flock.
When Paul made this statement (1 Cor 7:34-35) he did not say it under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost; it was merely his opinion that he said God allowed him to give (1 Cor 7:25). Paul's teachings about marriage and celibacy (1 Cor 7: 1- 40) was directed to Christians in general and not to those who were in the ministry or wanting to be in the ministry.
I believe that Paul should have encouraged each believer to seek God as to whether he/she should get married or stay single instead of him just encouraging them to be like him. I believe his advice was weak.
msnchris70
Part 2
Allow me a little folly in sharing a testimony to illustrate my point.
In Oct 1980 I made a vow to God to stay single all my life to serve God. This vow God received and I have, by His grace, been faithful to that vow.
Around the same time there was a single female in my SB Church that wanted to be a missionary. When she was praying she went to make a vow to God to stay single all her life to serve God. While she was praying God told her 'No' because that is not what He wanted for her, that He wanted her to be married. In the process of time God brought a young dentist into her life, who like her, was also interested in missions. They eventually got married. A few years later God called them to be medical missionaries in a foreign land through the SBC Foregin Missions Board. Paul provided dental services for the poor in , I believe, an African nation and he and his wife served the people there as missionaries. ( believer is better able to describe how that works when a dental professional goes as a missionary to a foreign land.)
God accepted my vow of celibacy to serve Him all my life but He did not want that for my female friend at Church.
Now, in Sept 1986, I wanted to be a missionary and made that public in my Church at invitation time. I attended a big Church that had a Missions director, Dr. Hal Boone, a former medical missionary for 25 yrs in an African Country. I was required to go see Dr. Boone. He talked with me about the differnt opportunities in foreign missions. Since I had a Masters Degree in Math he was trying to interest me in going to a foreign land to teach math as a missionary. I did not believe that that was what God wanted for my life. I told him that I was not interested in that.
I did not pursue missions through the SBC. God gave me my own ministry in the area I lived in.
Now for me, God accepted my vow of celibacy and gave me my own ministry doing missionary work here at home. However, for the lady I mentioned above, He had a different direction for her to go in which included marriage and her and her husband to go to a foreign land to be missionaries through the SBC Foreign Missions Board.
What God wants for one believer He does not want for another so each believer should seek God in what He wants for them and not just go the direction that man/clergy thinks they should go in.
Star2,
CAlling Mother Theresa a Heretic, eh? Hmm, well if living the Beatitudes everyday of her life is being a heretic then I'm all for it. If loving Jesus so much that you choose not to marry and decide to be Christ bride for life instead, and she chose to pray for hours each day to God for his strength so she could do the Good Works God had made ready for her, and she chose to live the life of the poor, and for the people she cared for she offered Baptism before they died, then she makes you look like a schlep. She asked them if they want forgiveness of their sins before they die, then they would say "Yes", she would then say that you must accept Jesus as your Lord, then they would say "Yes" and she would baptize them. She baptized so many thousands of dying Indians because they saw her love for them and if Mother Theresa believed that Jesus is the only way, then those Indians would believe in Jesus too because it was Mother Theresa who came to their need not their fellow hindus, muslims or budhists.
Star2.... STar2....why do you persecute me? Jesus may say this to you in your dreams one day and you will need to change your life like Paul did.
Is Johnny Hunt's role just a President who acts as the business person of the whole SBC then? He is probably well suited for that job. The Pope does not act as our business CEO, rather he is our spiritual leader who we look to so that we can immitate Christ more. Maybe the SBC should have someone who truly immitates Jesus as your leader in all ways. Was Jesus married? Was his life not about spreading the Gospel and a life of prayer? When you are married, like Paul said, you have to manage the cares of your wife and children. As a celibate person you can focus all your love and attention to God and His flock.
I've met many wonderful Protestant Pastors in my years, and I know if they were not married that they could be even more devoted to God's people in their chosen vocation. Being a Pastor of any denomination is highly sacrificial.
Star2,
To say that any human, even MotherTherese, can not experience the void of God because she had depression is sad for you to say. You couldn't spend one week in that women's shoes doing the unthankful work she has done for longer than you've probably been alive. She has shown Christ everyday of her life by her total self giving to others.
Also, Pope JPII loved Mary. He did not worship her. If you choose to lie about that, then you will be judged for bearing false witness. You probably need to think we worship Mary, so that you can ignorantly stay outside of Christ Church. Pray for your eyes to be unblinded from your bias. The M on the casket for JPII under the cross symbolized that the Pope wanted to immitate Mary and never leave the Cross of our Lord. For the Pope, The Blessed Mother, was the most nurturing mother of the Church and the best example of a follower of Christ. Mary always points to Jesus and tells you to do whatever He says. Mary is our Mother and became our Mother when Jesus gave His mother to John and John to His Mother. Mary was Mother of the Apostles and all the Disciples(THE CHURCH), and she is your Mother too. The more you love Mary for who she is, the more you will be drawn into a deeper relationship with our Lord.
chris, perhaps no one will remember Johnny Hunt in 100 years, but many in heaven will remember that he was the man that God used to bring them into the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and as their pastor was used of God to grow them in Christlikeness. Plus I can almost say with all certainty that one of Johnny Hunt's goals in life is not that he is remembered in 100 years, but rather that his life counted and made a real difference for the cause of Christ.
msnchris70
It doesn't matter whether anyone remembers Johnny Hunt, Pope John Paul II or anyone else. All that matters is if Jesus remembers you.
Maybe Mother Teresa will be remembered for her life's work in Calcutta but she'll also be remembered as a woman who confessed that she felt void of God in her life, who at times didn't even believe that He existed, and who begged the Pope on several occassions to pray for her spiritual emptyness. She'll also be remembered for how she told a bunch of people who were of other religions (Buddha, Hindu, etc) that all path ways lead to God. She will be remembered by me as a woman void of God in her life and a heretic.
I don't have a great deal of respect for St. Augustine. To me he is just a man who refused to take by faith the Word of God and because he couldn't understand it, like the Genesis' account of creation, he introduced heretical teachings into the Church by looking at most of the Book of Genesis as allegorical. His interpretations of scripture were heavily influenced by Greek thought and philosophy. Natural man cannot understand God's Word. It takes the Holy Ghost to help you understand it. St. Augustine never relied on God for help in understanding God's Word. He was not a great man of faith.
Pope John Paul II will be remembered by me as a man who placed his faith in Mary instead of God. His adoration for her knew no bounds. He praised her for everything. I never once heard him praise God for anything. He worshipped Mary. He'll be remembered by me as a man who just wanted to hide under a rug the the sexual sins of his clergy instead of dealing with it. He'll be remembered by me as a man who lacked faith in the Word of God when he embraced evolution instead of taking God at His Word by faith and embracing creationism. I do not have good memories of your previous Pope.
Your current Pope is a world wide public figure. Of course people on the street are going to remember him. Johnny Hunt is not a world wide known person. However, the people whose lives were touched by God through Johnny Hunt will never forget him.
You said "All humans can look at these people and marvel at what God has done in them." When I look at them all I see is what God did not do in them.
Based on what believer said about the accomplishments of Johnny Hunt in the area of evangelism I see that God has done more through Johnny then He did in any of the ones you have mentioned that I know about.
Star2,
You bring up some very good biblical points. On every account, the Pope does it all. In fact, if you really want to witness biblical holiness, then look at St. Francis of Assisi, Mother Therese, St. Dominic, St. Charles Borromeo, St. Augustine, St. Stephen, St. Therese, and there are hundreds more. There are reasons why these Catholic Saints are remembered for hundreds if not thousands of years because their life was a total sacrifice for God. All humans can look at these people and marvel at what God has done in them.
Like you said, you don't know Johnny personally. Well, the Pope's life is so publicly watched that we can even know what he had for breakfast. The Pope's life is completely public, while Johnny's life is still quite private becaue truly if you ask anyone on the street no one will know him. Unlike the Pope, Johnny can fly under the radar quite nicely.
I will pray for him. When I say holiness I am not talking about works I am talking about how your faith transforms your life in action
Honestly speaking when I was a Protestant and in seminary I witnessed many God loving people, but I never met a person within my denomination or others who ever exuded holiness until I met a Catholic monk named Fr. Groeshel who is a franciscan friar of the renewal. You want to see a holy man who makes his entire life about God and has this presence of Christ' holiness?
Johnny may be a good man, but I have yet to see any of us former Protestants or current live a life like the Apostles and yet I know of thousands of monks, nuns, Priests and brothers who live this life everyday. I honestly feel that there is a holiness ceiling within Protestantism, and that without receiving the fullness of the Sacraments like the Eucharist and Confession you will never in 100 years remember Johnny Hunt, but everyone will remember John Paul II.
msnchris70
You need to go to Scripture to find out what holiness is. Everything you mentioned is nothing more than works that even a person who is not right with God can do. That was certainly true of most of the religious leaders of Jesus' day. Jesus told them to repent or perish.
Romans 6:1- 22 tells us how to achieve holiness.
Obedience to righteousness yields fruit unto holiness and in the end eternal life.
Thus, if a believer lives his life in obedience to his new nature, which is created after God in righteousness and true holiness (Ephesians 4:24), and not in obedience to his sin nature, then he will be holy.
Ephesians 4:24 - "And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."
Romans 6:13,16,18,19,22
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
msnchris70
Is Johnny holy? Yes, if his life is yielded to his new nature and not his sin nature. That is something I don't know. Is the Pope holy according to the scriptural teaching of Romans 6:1-22?
What kind of life does Johnny have? I don't know because I don't know the man.
"Does Johnny immitates Christ?" - Hopefully he shows agape love (1 Cor 13:4-7) as best as he can to all.
Does the Pope?
"Does he pray alot?" - Most likely since his Church has an effective soul winning ministry (Matt 9:37-38).
Does the Pope?
"Is he spotless in personality as far as cardinal virtues are concerned?" - I don't know but he seems to be of good report as evidenced by the things people say about him that know him personally.
Is the Pope spotless in his personality?
"Does he carries his cross [die to to what he wants to do to do what God wants him to do] in order to follow Christ?" - I don't know, only he can testify to that. One test of that is the fruit his personal life bears. Are prayers answers, souls won to Christ, etc.
Does the Pope die daily to what he wants to do to do the will of God so that others can be saved or find the love of God in their life?
"Does he lives on a meager salary?" - Scriptures doesn't say that he has too (1 Tim 5:17). [The greek word for 'honor' in this verse is value, ie money.]
Does the Pope live on a meager salary where he is barely able to make ends meet?
"Is he devoted to Scriptural study?" - Don't know about that.
Does the Pope? Or does he just teach what the offical teachings of the RCC are?
"Does he exudes an image of Christ rather than the business world?" - Don't know if he uses the methods of the world to reach the lost but based on what people say, he doesn't seem to.
Does the Pope?
"Does he give to the poor?" - Don't know if he gives to the poor apart from what his Church is able to do for them.
Does the Pope give to the poor he meet on the street from his own personal finances?
"Does he tithes?" - Ddon't know but I would assume he does.
Does the Pope tithe?
"Does he fasts?" - Don't know what he does there.
Does the Pope fast?
"Does he celebrates Christ everday at Church and at home?" - If you mean take the Eucharist, then no.
SB don't believe like the Catholics in terms of what it means to participate in the Lord's Supper. The Protestants observe the Lord's Supper as a reminder to them what Jesus did for them in dying for their sins.
Jesus gives inward manifestations of His presence to a believer when the believer has and keep His commandments (John 14:21). Taking the Eucharist will not achieve that.
chicago24,
Thanks for taking time to help me. Sounds similar to my own journey (United Meth - Southern Meth - SBC) + prhaps my friend is on a similar path. I am not as widely read as you in early church fathers tho I appreciate what I have read. Not so sure about Rahner's influence on Vatican II. I sincerely appreciate your openness + helpfulness.
Blessings on you + your ministry.
chris, I hope by all Catholics you mean all truly born-again Catholics who are leading holy lives themselves and you know I know a whole lot of Catholics who ain't either or and I know way too many Southern Baptists who ain't either. But by your own standard Johnny Hunt is a "holy" man who receives a salary package worthy of his duties and responsibilities and don't even try to lay that vow of poverty nonsense on us because I know too many priests who do real well for being poor.
All Catholics will pray for Mr. Hunt that God will lead him to live ever more biblically.
What is holy? Holy is someone who immitates Christ;ie, lots of prayer, spotless personality as far as cardinal virtues are concerned, carries his cross in order to follow Christ, lives on a meager salary but enough to take care of needs(SBC may take care of expenses for him though), devoted to Scriptural study, exudes an image of Christ rather than of the business world, gives to the poor, tithes and fasts and celebrates Christ everday at Church and at home. This would be a good start to what is holy.
mathetes: In answer to your question regarding how I reconcile the SBC view of scriptural authority with the authority of the RCC, I suppose that since I'm a convert, I doubt that I will ever view the hierarchy of the Church as authoritative as someone who is a "cradle Catholic." But I do value the Church's theologians as an interpreter of scripture.
I hope that answers your questions.
Peace. . .
mathetes: Thanks for your question.
My conversion took place over a very long period. My dad is a SBC minister and I went to college on a piano scholarship. In music history classes, there was 2000 years of history and development all pretty much associated with the development of the Mass. Then I got an organist postition in an Episcopalian church and the Mass became valid for me from an intellectual standpoint, all tied to my music education. I also held organist positions in the Presbyterian, Christian Science and finally the RCC. After converting, finally, I joined the priesthood and was in a monastic religious order for eight years and obtained a Master of Divinity. My dad and I get along very well and he still teases me a bit about being a Catholic.
Like I said, it was a long process and I'm sure everyone's journey is unique.
Farout63: I agree, I was being pretty flippant in my remark and over-generalizing. I agree that witnessing does not take place in the RCC or the sudden conversions that take place in the SBC. By spirituality, I was referring to the contemplative charism in the RCC, such as that which is experienced in monastic life.
chicago24: I have found Baptist ar generally more "spiritual" than "religoius" Religion is such a wide discription and lcan mean didderent things to different people. As SBC retired Pastor I have seen more people involved to witness to neighbors, friends, and to the World the Good News of Jesus Christ then any other denomination. In all honesty and meaning no offence, I have never had a RRC ever even mention receiving Christ as Lord, not once. I am sure you may well have and for me to make a statement than any genuine Christian group or denomination is not spiritual is a wide, and perhaps very judgemental, statement to make.
Just something to consider friend.
chicago24
I was raised and saved in a SB Church. I am no longer Baptist but Pentecostal. I am not in any leadership position at the present time. However, when I sign my name on a legal document I always use my middle initial. Others do as well, ministers or not, it makes no difference.
chris, go to the SBC Convention for a few days and when I return what do I see my friend Chris talking "trash" about the SBC. Johnny Hunt is one of the most committed leaders to Christ in the SBC. He was elected based on the fact that God has used him to grow one of the most effective soul-winning churches in the SBC and not only is Woodstock impacting Georgia but the entire world they give not only financially to missions but send mission teams to places both in the USA and throughout the World and as a result souls are being saved and lives are being changed. So please chris before you speak out of turn please do your homework, Johnny Hunt is a powerful man of God and my prayer is that God will continue to powerfully use him to lead the SBC in being even more effective in reaching a lost world for Christ!
Tomas, I hope I can help you with your questions. Each SBC church is allowed to send a certain number of messengers based on the number of members in their church. There were over 7,000 messengers registered and a little over 5,000 voted. So even though 7,000+ might seem like a small number churches from all over the world were represented and in fact my wife and I were sent as messengers from our home church. To be honest I think one of the reasons there are not more messengers is the cost of going to the convention as well as there were no serious controversial issues that were being discussed this year. Plus even though resolutions are passed at the annual meeting because Southern Baptists are firm believers in the autonomy of the local church none of these resolutions are binding on any local church. Hope this helps.
chicago24,
Perhaps you can help me understand something with your dual SBC/RCC background. Since SB's teach that the Bible alone is authoritative for Christians, and the RCC teaches it's the Bible plus the teachings of the Church from Rome, how did you move from one to the other? At what point did you submit to the latter, and what was the stimulus or reason to adopt the latter?
Believe me: I'm not trying to trap you or criticize you. I'm trying to understand a friend who is making a similar journey. Thanks.
What I know of Johnny Hunt, he is a solid, committed, compassionate man of God filled with the Holy Spirit and following Jesus Christ. As a SBC pastor, I throw my full support behind this man of God. Like every denomination in America the SBC has its problems but we do seek God's leadership when selecting leaders.
I am proud to serve the Lord Jesus and do so as a Southern Baptist. I am a Southern Baptist because I am convince, for me personally, our Biblical understanding and doctrine is consistent with Scripture. I am honored to have Johnny Hunt lead the SBC and know that he will seek God's leadership in all he does. May God bless the SBC and May God bless the church of Jesus Christ.
msnchris70
What makes you think that Johnny Hunt is not holy?
As a former Evangelical and pastor and now Catholic, I will pray for this gentleman for the Holy Spirit to help him in his position.
I do hope and pray that he will become a holy man so others might look to him, not to be successful but faithful instead.
I am not a Baptist or a Catholic, but I pray to the Lord to keep the leaders save, humble and effective for the kingdom of heaven. God Bless Johnny in Jesus name.
Johnny Hunt is a great man of faith, vision and The Book. He will work hard to keep the SBC on track theologically, articulate a program for greater evangelism, and present a vision for home and world missions. I trust he can stem the tide of creeping liberalism and Calvinism in the denomination as well as promote the convention in developing a political position which promotes Biblical and family values. God bless you Johnny! The people will pray for you.
msnchris70: Having been raised a Southern Baptist and gone to seminary as a Roman Catholic, I can tell you in a nutshell the difference between the two:
The Roman Church has done a wonderful job when it comes to spirituality, but a lousy job as a religion. The Baptists, vice versa.
Why is it that so many Southern Baptist ministers include their middle initial in their names? This is especially true of ministers at larger churches. I grew up as a Southern Baptist (my dad is a SB minister) and I've noticed this for years. Check it out. You'd be surprised.
Wouldn't it be great if Baptists elected their leader based on holiness, instead of just being a good speaker and a good business man.
Why won't Baptists elect their leader who is the best image of Christ;Holy, prays for many hours everday to listen to God and adore Him, goes to church everyday, reads scripture everyday, rejects wealth and has come from a humble life, gives most of his money to poor, etc.
Why is it that most leaders in these churches are just good businessmen who are good at preaching? Where is a holy man?
Congratulations Johnny, what passion, love for Christ this man displays and lives it. He is the man that will be great for the faith, convention, new pastors, etc.. The one thing I can say as a longtime friend of Johnny and his family is that he is as passionate and enthuiastic now as he was 30 years ago with the same goal........let's win the world!!!!!!!
Mark, Granite Falls, NC
Thank you bigtex. I appreciate your explanation.
Tomas.. just a note of information. Those who vote are called "messengers" not delegates. The difference is that a messenger can vote according to his/her personal conviction while a delegate votes according to the will of the local church body. I know this is not important to the point you made but just wanted to share that with you. As a SBC pastor, who did not attend the convention, I agree that that is a sign that interest in the denomination may be dwindling.
This vote shows that only 5,000 messengers voted. There may have been 2,000 or more sitting on the convention floor who did not qualify to vote. There may have also been 100;s standing in the convention bookstore and other areas who did not want to participate and chose to talk to old friends or network.
Whatever the case it is a far cry from the number of votes of years back when you would have 20-30 thousand votes.
Only 5,000 voters? Does this mean that only 5,000 delegates attended the convention, or are there certain delegates who vote and they comprise a bloc of 5,000 voters. Could an SBC member explain this for me, because wow, if only 5,000 delegates showed up I think there are some real problems in the convention.
"He also expressed passion to have churches fully involved in spreading the Gospel."
Fully as opposed ot partially involved? I'm not really sure what that means, but it sounds like it is his time now.