An official in a conservative California county announced that her office will halt all civil wedding ceremonies as the state approaches the legalization of gay "marriage."
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(Photo: AP Images / Eric Risberg)Art Tomaszewski, left, and his partner David Bell, second from left, talk with Thomas Giap, right, of Infinity Productions about videotaping their wedding at a special wedding pavilion at the Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Pride Buisness Expo in San Francisco, Tuesday, June 10, 2008.
Kern County Clerk Ann Barnett said her staff will continue to issue marriage licenses but will no longer officiate at civil ceremonies. June 13 is the last day county officials will perform civil weddings, as reported by The Associated Press.
Barnett cited budget and staff constraints for her decision in an announcement made last week. But gay activists and supporters, including San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom who has offered to perform same-sex “marriages” in Kern County, are suspect of her decision, with some calling it poorly disguised discrimination against same-sex couples.
On Tuesday, June 17, the California Supreme Court's decision to allow same-sex "marriage" takes effect and thousands of homosexual couples are expected to tie the knot this year. County clerks will be required by law to issue new gender-neutral marriage licenses.
Those fighting to preserve traditional marriage between a man and a woman have rallied in support of Barnett, who reportedly announced her decision after learning from county lawyers that she could not refuse to marry gay couples.
Heterosexual couples who planned to marry inside the clerk’s office in the coming days and weeks have rushed their weddings this week to make it before the county closes its doors on officiating weddings.
Bob Courtney, 61, who went to the clerk’s office Thursday with Debbie Garett, 51, to get a marriage license applauded Barnett’s decision, saying he believes marriage is between and man and a woman only, according to the San Francisco Chronicle.
Kern County residents overwhelmingly supported a 2000 ballot measure that defined marriage as between a man and a woman. The state Supreme Court overturned that measure on May 15 when it gave the green light to same-sex “marriages.” Opponents of same-sex “marriage” will go back to the ballot in November to vote on a constitutional amendment to preserve traditional marriage.
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I've posted some these (as well as other) articles on my new blog:
http://wbmoore.wordpress.com
Hopefully my more long winded posts will be put there instead of here.
Biggie, go read my series of posts concerning your challenge in another forum:
http://www.christianpost.com/article/comment/20080615/32822_Anglican_Church%3A_Gay_%27Wedding%27_Broke_Rules.htm
Hello my fellow bretheren! How nuts are you all? Do you support EVERYTHING in the Bible 100%? If I were to cherry pick a phrase in the Bible, would you be 100$ for EVERYTHING I could find?
This should be interesting... Who here wants to lay their money on the table? Who here says they support 100% of what is in the Bible as true, accurate, and 100% endorsed by yourself?
If I find a phrase in the Bible you don't endorse, that means you are friggin hipocrites and liars. True or False?
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It is threads like these that make me want to turn away from the CP forever.
BLASPHEMY!!! I am 32; I've only been a Christian for just over a year; I worship and revere God in spirit and truth...
This is utter BLASPHEMY. It is absolutely true that Jesus is the light, and that the light makes manifest what has been festering in the dark.
When you hold God's Word up to garbage like the majority of the posts in here, it is so utterly clear that we, brothers and sister in Christ, are living in the TRUTH, and the END of this wicked system is near. Oh Lord please come soon. Judge those who hate you. Father, help me forgive those who despise you. You people absolutely GRIEVE the Holy Spirit. I pray that God will come as swiftly as the flood in the time of Noe. I marvel at how Jesus could be so forgiving on that cross. Soon brothers and sisters, they will look more beautiful than ever, and attract and draw together the entire heathen world, and they will HATE US because they HATE HIM. The persecution will be severe and we need to have faith. Lord, increase our faith. Lord that they would know Jesus.
In love, fear, trembling and with a broken heart,
Your Brother in Christ.
(Copied from my other post about the same topic)
Biggie,
I find it interesting that many homosexuals will argue that the Bible is old and outdated, even a fairy tale book, yet the very same people use Scripture to convey God's love, when their very own behavior is clearly identified as sin that God calls an abomination.
How does one reconcile in their heart accepting God's love and ignoring His coming wrath and judgment against sin? Wouldn't someone like that be considered a hypocrite, just like the person who calls themselves a Christian but is a closet homosexual, or addicted to pornography, or who is having an adulterous relationship outside of their marriage? Isn't that hypocritical? How is the Christian hypocrite any different from the homosexual hypocrite? And not all Christians are hypocrites just like not all homosexuals are hypocrites.
It is true, biblically true that Jesus Christ, who is God, represents love and His love is seen in the cross upon which Christ died on, for sin, not for love, but for sin.
Those who say that a homosexual lifestyle is not a sin are the very same people who are calling God a liar (1 John 1:10, Jeremiah 2:35) and God will present a clear case against them where they will not be found innocent.
There really is no joy in this matter at all, but sorrow. Sorrow for those who believe that what is wrong is really right. Sorrow for their very soul and the horrible eternal consequences that await them, unless they repent and find salvation in Jesus Christ.
Danile, thanks for getting back and clarifying that for me, be blessed as you serve Him, believer
Wow Biggie ... you DO understand what I've been saying!
Marriage between one man and one woman is love. Everything else is LUST! Jesus does represent love but had some really strong things to say about lust of the flesh! So did Paul in Romans where he said "Therefore God fave them over in the lusts of their hears to impurity, that their bodies might be dishonored among them."
Sounds real clear to me. California is now dishonored. A dishonor they can repent of in November!
Bingo, Believer. It was based on the privacy of adults in a private setting ie the right to privacy. Now, if they had been 'doing it' in the bushes at a park or something that would have been a different issue.
Statements from the judges clearly stated it was a privacy issue between 2 consenting adults in a private setting that was the issue and that the government had 'too narrow a view of liberty" to include the private bedroom between consenting adults.
The courts often use a seperate issue to reach their desired conclusion without actually addressing the issue. One current example is the right of detainees at Gitmo to appeal the the US Supreme Court. Now THAT ruling is an exercise in hair-pin turns!
God Bless America!
Land that I love!
I am truly proud of all Americans for their tolerance and acceptance of others who are different from them into the family!
Christians - behold! This is a wonderous day! For your hearts have melted with love and admiration for LOVE in its graceful beauty.
Same-Sex Marriages have begun in California.
This is a historic day and a turning point advancing all that is good about America.
God Bless the wonderful country America is becoming. Embracing views of acceptance, embracing change, and abiding by its values enshrined in its Constitution.
Gay-haters: Do not fear this day. For as you learned to accept racial tolerance. The vast majority of you will also accept same-sex couples.
As you have learned to accept the world is not flat, that the sun doesn't revolve around the Earth, so too will you one day accept that Jesus Christ represents Love. And Love is what is being shared today between same-sex couples.
Christians - do not shed a tear for this historic day. For I know you have greatness within you. To accept change. To embrace Love. And to reinterpret your texts in a modern age based on love, acceptance, tolerance, and mutual respect.
Christians - I am proud of your progress you have achieved so much in changing your beliefs during the past two millenia. I know you will eventually do what's right, and accept Love.
God Bless all of the Same-Sex Couples getting married! Your wedding vows represent Love, and the Love of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit embraces the sanctity of your Love!
daniel, help a novice here are you saying thatwhat the Lawrence case decided was simply that the public has no right to determine the right or wrong of what goes on in the privacy of the bedroom between two consenting adults and what they were doing is not relevant to the decison so the court did not rule on the behavior but rather their right to do the behavior in the privacy of their bedroom? thanks, believer
Luckily, for all of us, God sent Jesus to die for our sins.
John 3:16-18 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
If we trust in Him, we are saved from the cost of our sins. If however, we deny Him, or claim to know Him but have no change in our lives, then we are responsible for our sins.
Matthew 7:21-23
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
What is the will and work of God?
John 6:39-40
39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 6:29
29Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
God will judge - not me, nor anyone else. Each of us will have to answer to God. If we know christ, then His righteousness will be counted as ours. But if not, then we will suffer the second death.
Revelation 21:6-8
6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
I pray each of us comes to understand this and accept it.
God loves you and wants you to love Him. But this means you have to also obey Him.
Actually blue... 'A' court has spoken and that court has no authority in the other 49 states.
Now, back to Biggie (and anyone else)... I actually have had friends through the years that were homosexual. I've even had one of them over for dinner...with my kids around (oh my!). Gay or not I see you are a very angry person who needs approval and lots of it. You need to be right. I gave up being right along time ago because when it came to me and Jesus...He was right and I was wrong...period. I gave up my gibberish as you put it for simply reading what was written in the Bible. I know this is foolishness to you but the Bible beat you to it. It says it is foolishness to you. Maybe your thinking isn't as independent and free as you may think since a 2000 year old book has you pegged. :-) The bottom line is I can never approve of what the Bible clearly disapproves.
Ever read a book where someone doesn't listen and then something really bad happens at the end? I looked at the end of the book...God wins. Those who disagree with Him lose (that's why He's God...).
You attack...we show you the love of God. You demean...I died along time ago so I am free to care about you as a person. I am not your judge...God is. God GAVE YOU THE RIGHT to do what you want. He gives each of us stewardship of our lives (Christian or not) and you will be held accountable for that. All the arguing and attacking here won't change that. Your aguement isn't with me but with God. It is my hope you come to understand that before that judgement happens.
Actually Lawrence vs Texas doesn't say it's legal. It says it's not illegal. Now...this may confuse the rational mind but it's a legal thing. My area of expertise is 504 and IDEA law (civil rights of special education and special ed law). I volunteer with familes with special needs children helping them get from the schools the services they need so I do know just a small bit about civil rights and the law.
"“Let me be clear that I have nothing against homosexuals, or any other group, promoting their agenda through normal democratic means. Social perceptions of sexual and other morality change over time, and every group has the right to persuade its fellow citizens that its view of such matters is the best ... But persuading one’s fellow citizens is one thing, and imposing one’s views in absence of democratic majority will is something else.”
—Scalia."
Once the Constitution of California is ammeded the court will have no right to an opinion on the subject as it is not over the Constitution but under it.
Also, this case was about bringing public opinion into the private residence where adults and ONLY adults are involved. It did not make it legal. It made it not illegal. I know this may be a bit of a brain twister but when you work with civil rights issues day after day you learn there is indeed a difference to which Shakespear said "kill all the lawyers"....
The basis of this statement is simple. The court can determine if a law is constitutional but cannot make law itself thus the term 'case-law' which is determinations based on existing law and the constitution. I know...clear as mud...and you wonder why our schools are 49th here is SC.
Sorry Barnett, your conservative 'halting' can not change gay marriage because the courts have spoken: no more discrimination!
Christ is only the savior for those who trust in His saving work -- and if He is, then they will obey Him, If they do not obey, then that is evidence that He is not their savior.
Hebrews 5:9,
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him
John taught the same: 1 John 3:7-10,
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
It is not about being justified by the Law. Its about being who God wants you to be. Its about love and obedience. If you say you love, but you do not obey, then its not true love, because you love yourself more than God. We must love GOD more than anything and anyone - including ourselves, and we must obey him.
But if you don't obey, then you don't love Him. You are breaking the greatest commandment. Without a change in focus to loving God more than yourself, this breaking the greatest commandment will eventually lead to eternal death.
Paul wrote in Romans 6:12-16
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
So will you be a slave to your desires or a slave to obedience to Christ? if you say you love Christ, then you must obey.
As John said in 1 Jn 3:10,
10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother
How Does Romans Teach Homosexuality Is Sin?
First we have to recall that God said homosexual sex is wrong in Lev 18. He repeated this in Romans 1 (that would be where he called it degrading, impurity, dishonoring, unnatural, indecent).
Romans 3:20 says we are not found righteous by the Law, but it teaches us what sin is.
Romans 6:23 says we earn death with our sin.
The Old Testament gives many concrete examples of spiritual truths that are explicitly defined in the New Testament. The basic one of which is that God comes first in your life, then others.
Let’s say that you feel sexual attraction and even love for someone of the same gender. Let’s further posit that you want to marry this person. How can that be against the spirit of what Christ said were the two greatest laws, to love God and love others as yourself?
The answer is in Romans 1:19-32. Let me break it down:
1. By putting your desires above God's you are putting yourself, a created creature, in the place of God in your life.
2. By refusing to accept what God has said about homosexual sex being a sin, you are refusing to honor God.
3. By ignoring His word, you are being ungodly, and suppressing the truth.
4. By saying that your thoughts on the subject are more important that God's thoughts on it, you are exchanging the truth of God for your own thoughts.
5. If you want to sin and ignore God, you are certainly free to do so. God will eventually give you more and more of it, until you reap what you sow. When anything takes the place of God in your life (whether its a TV, a job, a person, yourself, your desires, your fears, money, fame, a carved idol, etc), then you are sinning. If you continue to do so, you are hardening your heart. God will eventually give you over to that sin - He will eventually harden your heart.
6. Your sin will eventually move from a personal hidden thing to a public thing, to a thing where you approve of others doing your sin.
7. And your sin will cause you to do other unrighteous things.
Now, this goes against what Christ said were the two greatest commands because if someone truly loved God OR himself, that person will love God with all his strength, mind, and spirit. That person would be obedient to GOD rather than thinking his thoughts and feelings should take precedence over what God has said.
But instead, people choose to argue and justify rather than Love and Obey.
some might say that that is the essence of sin because they exchanged the truth of God for a lie. Perhaps we can not really say that homosexual sex is sin.
To address this position, we must note that in Romans 3:20, God said we learn what sin is because of the Law. If you recall, Leviticus 18 defines sexual acts God considers sin, which includes homosexual sex. So, since that is part of the Law, and the Law teaches us what sin is, then yes, God still considers those things to be sin.
Romans 3:20
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Also, if we have accepted Christ as Savior, then we have to stop sinning, because we know sin leads to death, while obedience leads to righteousness.
Romans 6:11-16
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord
Romans 8:13
13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live
You must choose to be a slave to sin or a slave to obedience – if you live a sinful life then you will die, but if you stop living a sinful life (with the help of God), then you will live.
So yes, even in the New Testament, homosexuality is considered wrong.
So does God call homosexuality a sin?
Romans 1:24-32
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Note that God called sex with people of the same gender sexual impurity, degrading, shameful, unnatural, indecent, and perversion, and something that ought not to be done.
The Christian life is about love and obedience. If you say you love God, but you do not obey Him, then its not true love, because you love yourself more than God. We must love GOD more than anything and anyone - including ourselves, and we must obey him. We must love.
And loving someone does not mean allowing them to do something that is damaging them. It means helping them; it means confronting them gently with truth; it means not condoning bad behavior or a bad condition of heart; it means not judging the person to be bad or beneath you but to judge the behavior and evidence of the condition of their heart.
But ultimately, we have to love (God and our brothers) and obey (God).
Can one be living a life of sin and accurately call himself a Christian. Just because someone says something does not make it so, even if they believe it. There are plenty of people who go to church and call Christ Savior and Lord, but when you look at their lives, its evident that they do not love God. To be a Christian involves following Christ - believing in Him and obeying God. As for living a lifestyle of sin and claiming Christ as Savior, Christ said in Matthew 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Jesus said in John 14:23-24,
23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
Paul said in Acts 26:20, First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
James, the brother of Jesus said in James 2:14-17,
What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Peter and other apostles said, Acts 5:29,
Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
The author of Hebrews said in Hebrews 5:9,
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
John wrote in 1 John 3:7-10,
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
Why Christians should care about any given sin in our society?
Focusing on any given sin by the church tends happen once that sin comes to the forefront of our society. We have to deal with each sin as it manifests in our lives, individually. And from my perspective, no sin is worse or better than any other sin. As we mature in Christ, we individually need to leave sin after sin behind.
Each of us needs to do this. In the process, we need to find ways of sharing God's love with all sinners, including liars, the sexually immoral, and others who live patterns of sin. But we also have to not let people call good what God has called evil. Most people recognize that murder and rape are sins. So people do not try to step forward and demand to be allowed to do them.
Just because Christ did not focus on a given sin is no reason to think he thought it was ok. He dealt with issues of the heart with some concrete examples. He mentioned problems that were common in that day. For example, Christ did not mention homosexuality directly, but He didn't mention rape either. I don't hear anyone justifying that sin. Nor do I hear rapists coming forward saying they ought to have a right to rape.
Sin is sin, and it is God who decides what constitutes sin. We have the responsibility to ensure society is not damaged by people trying to justify their selfish behavior.
As society continues to move in a direction against God, it becomes increasingly difficult not to be adversely affected by blatant manifestations of sin. While I am responsible for myself, this does not obviate the effect of society accepting sin has on me. The same is true for anyone attempting to raise children in this society. It becomes increasingly difficult to teach God's standards and expect children (whose ideas and morals are formed by what they see, hear, and experience) to embrace those ideals. It is faith in Christ that softens the heart and is reflected in a positively changed life. James and Paul both said we need to repent - which means change - and live lives that reflect that change. If one believes the word of God about needing faith in Christ, then one must live a life that reflects a changed heart. We must be obedient to Christ and help others to do the same.
That is why I think Bible believing Christians focus on any given issue at all, such as homosexuality. I doubt it would be an issue for many of us if there weren’t this tiny but loudly vocal group trying to get us to embrace (not just tolerate) a particular sin.
People who live patterns of sin have convinced themselves otherwise.
Psalm 361:-3 1 An oracle is within my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked: There is no fear of God before his eyes. 2 For in his own eyes he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his sin. 3 The words of his mouth are wicked and deceitful; he has ceased to be wise and to do good.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Hi Daniel Paul:
Below is the reference from the U.S. SUPREME COURT ruling in Lawrence vs Texas.
Lawrence vs Texas was a landmark United States Supreme Court case. In the 6-3 ruling, the justices struck down the sodomy law that had criminalized homosexual sex in Texas. The court had previously addressed the same issue in 1986 in Bowers v. Hardwick, where it upheld a challenged Georgia statute, not finding a constitutional protection of sexual privacy.
Lawrence explicitly overruled Bowers, holding that it had viewed the liberty interest too narrowly. The majority held that intimate consensual sexual conduct was part of the liberty protected by substantive due process under the FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT. Lawrence has the effect of invalidating similar laws throughout the United States that purport to criminalize homosexual activity between consenting adults acting in private. It may also invalidate the application of sodomy laws to heterosexual sex based solely on morality concerns.
READ ABOUT HOW OUR COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON RIGHTS AND PRINCIPLES - NOT YOUR GIBBERISH LIES.
Let's take it one step further:
"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States"
Why aren't Christians immune from paying for what they believe is sin? Christians money is going to pay for these unions to be proformed. Sure sounds like and abridgement of privilidges and immunities to me! After all, isn't it a Constituionally protected right and privilidge to uphold our faith?
You seem to be all about rights as long as they are YOUR rights. This is the problem with rights over responsibility. As I have gotten older I have found being responsible to help others is far more important than my right to persue the "American Dream" and have the big house, nice car and the condo. I learned one can never have enough time to be responsible. I have also learned that those who are so bent on their own rights rarely love their neighbor as themselves. Loving your neighbor as yourself can consume an entire life leaving only time to Love God with all your heart, soul and mind.
One last thing, Jesus was also accused of putting His own extras and spins on Scripture by the people of the day. Thanks for the compliment! :-)
Separation: "wouldn't they want the so-dubbed (by them not me) promiscuous gays to have a way of being monogomous?"
Actually, no. The Bible says God wishes that none should parish (that's everyone and not just gays). It's a desire to do what the Bible says. It is NOT a desire to be less sinful but rather to be saved from sin all together.
Psycobabble says anger is a result of unresolved issues and depression is a result of unresolved anger. Folk like Biggie have way deeper issues to resolve than just saying they have the right to be gay. I don't deny their right to be gay. What I deny is the wisdom of that choice when they stand before God.
Many deny God and the Bible. In view of history it wasn't long ago when people denied the earth was round. That didn't make them right. This is the key issue. Is man right or God? It's not a combination of the two. It's one or the other. The best we can do is to agree with Him.
Biggie...it does seem when you can't ignore what the Bible says you just call it outdated. Your position is called "abitrary abosolutism" where there is no permanent truth. Somehow truth changes to match what you believe.
As for the 'extras' you don't have to go any further then the Greek to see what I am saying. As for me...I died along time ago. The life I now live I live by faith in the Son of God. Also, as we know, the court also said aborttion is legal. That doesn't make it right. The courts in Germany during WWII said Jews were substandard people and it was OK to kill them. This is what happens when man thinks he is the authority instead of God.
Guess what...I looked at the end of the book...God wins. I learned along time ago to be far less concerned with my rights and WAY more concerned with my responsibilities to God as spelled out in the Bible. We will not be judged by how we used our rights but rather if we were good stewards of what the Lord gave us.
biggie:
I'm surprised with our "google" age that you didn't do a quick search, but here's one of many viable sources that have been out there:
http://www.narth.com/docs/pedophNEW.html
Also, look up an earlier version of the periodical "The Advocate" (gay magazine) and you'll notice that they advertise and support trips for gay men to countries long known for their pedophilia. Ummm, you'll notice that I said earlier versions. Mysteriously, they've discontinued these advertisements since being gay has - in their minds - is not nearly a fringe as it use to be.
You're forgetting that the gay agenda has long FELT that they had to defeat the "religious right" to help overcome societal barriers. You say that I'm ignorant. Hello? Your ignorance is blatant in thinking that it's ONLY the religious right. I can't tell you the scores of atheist, Jews, Muslim, etc. that think homosexuality, bestiality, pedophiles are all sinful and perverted lifestyles and are destructive to society. In fact, since the gay community has become so bold, why don't they take their pride parades to IRAN! Gee, I wonder how far down the street they'd get with all their nudeness, orgy fest and supposed pride would get in these kinds of countries? Do they really think they're going to get very far with Muslim countries - where's their evolutionary thinking? Common biggie - answer the tough questions.
If you're so bright, provide me some examples of rich gay history or a society that has thrived with a rich gay culture? Once again, there is and will never be such a society that will survive with any gay culture because it dies before fruition.
Repent biggie before you are engulfed in this lie of gayness which only leads to hell. Though I speak tough - and there are many examples of rough talk in the Bible - we as Christians are called to love. I love my kids, but there are times I give them a good scolding. You're wayward biggie, and we're yelling to you to come to the Cross!
Wikpedia: "The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution is one of the post-Civil War amendments (known as the Reconstruction Amendments), first intended to secure rights for former slaves. It includes the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses, among others. It was proposed on June 13, 1866, and was ratified on July 9, 1868.[1] It is perhaps the most significant structural change to the Constitution since the passage of the United States Bill of Rights.
The amendment provides a broad definition of United States citizenship, superseding the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford that had excluded African Americans. The amendment requires states to provide equal protection under the law to all persons within their jurisdictions and was used in the mid-20th century to dismantle legal segregation, as in Brown v. Board of Education. Its Due Process Clause has been the basis of much important and controversial case law regarding privacy rights, abortion (see Roe v. Wade), and other issues.
The other two post-Civil War amendments are the Thirteenth Amendment (banning slavery) and the Fifteenth Amendment (banning race-based voting qualifications). According to Supreme Court Justice Noah Swayne, "Fairly construed, these amendments may be said to rise to the dignity of a new Magna Carta."[2]'
"“ Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. "
Just don't see homosexuality here. Maybe I missed it. Where is homosexuality?
biggie,
You said, "But at the end of the day, when you die, you will all be dead. Your fantasy of Jesus in the sky is just a fantasy."
A great mathematician named Blaise Pascal said it was like a wager: if I live my life according to the Bible + it turns out to be false, I still have had a good moral life, then cease to exist. If it's true, I have that life + go to heaven. If you live as if the Bible is false + it is, you live like you want + cease to exist. If it's true, you get to live like you want but then you lose forever.
I am praying for you that God will open your eyes to the love + grace He offers you, + that you will repent + accept His gift of eternal life.
biggie, I did not say I was ever a homosexual I said as a teen I struggled with my sexuality as most teens do to include whether I was heterosexual or homosexual. So I am not nor have I ever been a closet homosexual. But if your so comfortable with your sexuality why all the hate and anger toward those of us who believe that the practices of homosexuality are opposed to God's will and plan for mankind? Apparently your not as comfortable with your sexuality as you would like us to believe? So does that make you a closet heterosexual, maybe it's time for you to come out of the closet?
Most gays I have met, like at work, or out in public, are sad, and/or angry people. They know Christians love them. They know they are living in sin, and we other sinners will accept them into the fold, if they make an effort to turn away from homosexuality. Who gives a damn what the laws of the USA say ? The gay lifestyle is a deathstyle. It leads only to self-destruction.
Sorry to insist, but moral laws of God cancel the immoral permissions of countries. Get loved by God, and get to loving God, and then marry someone from the opposite sex, and have babies, and a wonderful life like God wants for you.
seperate, and heterosexual marriage will end adultery and prostitution too, that is one of the most ridiculous arguments used to promote same-sex marriages that it will end the rampant promiscuity in the homosexual community.
seperate, if that isn't true then why is NAMBLA one of the biggest supporters of same-sex marriage? What's in it for them that they would pour their money into the support of such legislation?
I also cannot do not understand the fact that most people against gay marriage have also lashed out at the gay community in the past for being promiscuous. wouldn't they want the so-dubbed (by them not me) promiscuous gays to have a way of being monogomous? All i see is hypocrisy.
believer,
i appreciate you stating your opinion: "legalizing same sex marriage they will open the door to justify any type of marital relationship the mind can imagine." i have a real issue with this argument as there is no justification for jumping to that conclusion and you have no factual data to back up your argument. IT SIMPLY DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.
God doesn't make sinners. Homosexuality is not a sin. For the problem with homosexuality has not to do with the gays, but rather with those who are unwilling to accept homosexuals into the fabric of society.
Hi Daniel Paul: There you go again. Quoting the text of the Bible, and adding your own gibberish interpretations.
Monkeys can do this. And quite honestly. better than you.
Get this: The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled homosexuality is LEGAL. Now, I bet the 85 year old justice Kennedy is going to love another 8 months until Obama gets in office.
Which basically means, that when he dies, he will be replaced by a liberal, free-thinking American Leader who will further embrace separation of Yahoos from State.
Unless one of you nut-jobs assassinates one of the liberal justices in the next 8 months , your cause is lost.
Homosexuality is protected under the U.S. Constitution under the 14th Amendment. You can quote your outdated biblical passages until you are blue in your face. But you know what? it doesn't mean a thing.
At the end of the day, the U.S. Constitution, which our great country is based, protects the rights of minorities. And the sooner you nuckleheads get that into your dense skulls, the less agitation you will cause this country.
Honestly, we have better things to worry about than who marries whom. But you knuckleheads seem to think its the most important thing since sliced bread.
You are a disgrace to all Christians in America. SHAME ON YOU! If you believe in hell, may you burn in it forever!
Thank GOD I live in a country which protects my rights. America is the land of the free, and the home of the brave.
Hi rolln4him:
you are ignorant beyond belief. Your statistics you type are without citation, and basically this makes you untrustworthy.
Show me the source of your bogus claims about 80% and I will prove you to be either a liar or a rube guliable to believe anything someone puts in writing.
take that to the bank, and cheque it!
Hi Believer - I appreciate you honesty about your struggles being a gay person at the age of 19. It must be a challenge to pent up your feelings. But all the more power to you for finding an outlet with your preaching to others to try to follow your choices. However, for many, the choice of homosexuality is not a sin. You can believe it is. I happen to believe it is not.
So, the Christian right is the last holdout against acceptance of homosexuals in America. The strategy of gays is to use the power of the U.S. Constitution to circumvent your predijustices and gain acceptance of the legalities of two individuals in a committed relationship.
Everyone: you cause has failed. You will need to accept homosexuals into your country. For you do not hold the keys to entry to society. You can maintain your backward beliefs, armagdeddon, and brimstone and fire, and thats all good. But at the end of the day, when you die, you will all be dead.
Your fantasy of Jesus in the sky is just a fantasy.
Sorry for such a sloppy post. It's getting late.
scitsonga:
The key word is "establishment" of religion. It doesn't mean separation FROM religion. The founders would and could not conceive of a nation not having a basis of faith - namely Christianity. All nations have a faith/religion from which they base all their laws from. As I've said in my earlier posts, atheism is a faith with it's governmental structure being communism (in general terms due to space) for example. However, this is way too deep of a topic for this type of forum.
Essentially though, scitsonga I believe that you're WRONG because your using two different aspects for debate: Separation of church and state as well as Congress shall not establish religion are two separate discussions.
Sunshineforall said:
"Beleiver's narrow views hardly represent those of all Christians. Believer only speaks for one person - himself."
You are correct, Believers views don't represent the beliefs of all Christians, but they do represent the beliefs of us that do honor and fear Almighty God. He speaks very clearly for us that have not been tainted by the political correctness of this perverse generation, and who hold to the absolute truths of the Word of God.
You, on the other hand, seem to have a personal agenda to spread your tainted worldly view to any that will embrace it.
Daniel Paul "Our country was NOT built on separation of church and state..."
From the First Amendment of US Costitution:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion....
This says your post is WRONG.
rollin4Him, appreciate your support but I think they do have an answer they just don't want to admit that by legalizing same sex marriage they will open the door to justify any type of marital relationship the mind can imagine. It's kind of like the people in our area who profess to be Christians but raise marajuana, the way they rationalize this with their Christianity is to simply say that they only grow it and sell it, what the buyers do with it is not their concern. What the homosexual community is saying is we simply want the right to be legally married the other consequences that result from this decision are not a concern to us.
If it weren't for the fact that I am a Christian, no doubt I'd be taking on any women that would be willing and able (actually, that's the mentality and life-style that I was delivered from).
Another bigger question for biggie is: As they survey the historical landscape, who or Who set those moral guidelines in the first place? Why has it been best for society to be one man and one woman?
Believer - good job on helping biggie understand the Christian perspective. He's not ever going to answer your question because they (sunshine as well) don't have an answer. As I've stated in an earlier post; nearly 80% of gay men are pedophiles. Being gay doesn't stop at just one perversion because once you take the Word of God out of the picture, anything goes. Sure, some have their own "line", but why have a "line" for morals? Obviously, there's no fear of God, so why not go for the gusto and have sex with whatever and whomever you want?
Biggie...here's the bottom line. The Bible uses the example of marrige between a husband and wife as an example of Christ and the Church. Men are to be an example of the love of Christ for His Church and the women are to be an example of the Bride of Christ. You will find this in Ephesian 5:22-33.
The reason I have a problem with same sex marriage is because it is simply another one of Satans ploys to weaken the effect of the Gospel of Jesus the Christ. It undermines the example of the relationship between Christ and the Church.
My strong concern is for those people who look at what Jesus said was real marriage (one man and one woman until death) and thumb their nose at it which is what divorce, living together and same sex relationships do. Jesus said man shall leave and cleave to his wife. Anything else is thumbing your nose at Him.
In this issue it is either His way or another way. A quality guru by the name of Phillip Crosby defined quality as "conformance to requirements". Jesus' requirements were one man and one women. Anything else isn't a quality relationship.
Jesus DID say something about same sex relationships and all others that differ from how God created. Just like the folks who look for counterfet money only study the real thing (anything that differs from it is counterfet) Jesus always stated how it was suppose to be. He stated God's position on issues with the "have you not read" statements.
Matthew 19. "Have you not read, that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'for this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh? Consequently they are no longer two, but one flesh."
Anything else is wrong and unapproved by God (also known as sin). Jesus is very clear that marriage is between one man and one woman (greek bears this out).
Our country was NOT built on separation of church and state. It is not in any documentation but rather in a letter from Thomas Jefferson. It was never in any bill, law or federal document. It was only wrongfully used by the courts. After all, if church and state are indeed seperate, then just how could the state make any official judgement as to such? They would be telling the church what to do which would violate the very notion of separation.
biggie, I don't my greatest passion is being in the pulpit proclaiming God's Word and helping the lost to come to Christ and the saved to grow in Christ, blogging is just a way that God is using to help me to be better equipped to not only defend my faith but to help other believers to do the same. Plus can't you be a little more original in your homophobic tirade then call anybody who is opposed to the homosexual lifestyle a closet homosexual, but to answer your question yes as a teen some 30 years ago I struggled with that issue and when I became a Christian at the age of 19 God set me free from those issues, I do not hate homosexuals in fact I have worked both with and for homosexuals and consider some of them as close friends, so although I am totally opposed to the homosexual agenda I have a great desire to see God release those who are caught up in that sinful lifestyle free and I have that same desire for anyone who is caught up in any sinful lifestyle. God's Word says for you shall know the Truth and the Truth will set you free. Jesus is the Truth and Jesus can set anyone free from any sinful lifestyle if they will let Him.
Ok - so you don't support the KKK. I don't support the group you mention nor can I speak about them or for them as I know nothing about them.
Old Testament / New Testament - why are you so obsessed about a handful of phrases scattered throughout the book?
Pesonally, believer, I think its the Ted haggard syndrome. Those who speak loudest against homosexual activity, are themselves gay in denial.
Is that your case, believer? Why among all the issues to concern your Christian time, do you focus so heavily on homosexuality? Are you a closeted homosexual yourself, believer? Yes or no. If not, why obsess against gays so feverlishly? What are you scared of?
Will gays getting married diminsih your marriage? believer - are you married?
Will gays getting married cause you to get divorced?
Answer my questions, believer. If you dare....
biggie, the seperation of church and state is a policy to protect peoples freedom of religion not to keep religious viewpoints from being shared with regards to government issues. It was to keep the state from establishing a state religion that would force Americans into one religious belief or system.
biggie, as far as the KKK I do not support or agree with them in any way, shape, or form, but I also believe their opposed to same-sex marriages and that is because of their hate of those in the homosexual community, I am not opposed to same-sex marriage because I hate those in the homosexual community but because the Word of God clearly condemns homosexual practices in both the Old and New Testament and allowing same-sex couples to marry would mean that we are condoning these sinful practices. So then I go back to my question which is why does NAMBLA have such a vested interest in seeing these amendments passed?
Thank God our country was built on separation of Church and State!
biggie, you never asked me that question, but to answer your question I would like to see the laws of this country based on the Judeo-Christian beliefs that have made us the great country we are, but regardless of what or who rules America, God's Word takes precedence over everything else and if the laws of this country would force me as a follower of Christ to violate God's Word then I hope if that day ever comes I'll have the courage to do what's right in God's eyes regardless of the personal consequences.
so sunshine and biggie, why not answer my question?
Hey Biggie... the courts have made all kinds of decisions which are not right and later overturned by vote just like what will happen in November. Gay marriage won't be recognized here in South Carolina and many other states. So it isn't the Constitution that has won or somehow changed. It is a small minority of people under a court even liberals consider to be plain nuts who will have won something they will lose in November.
I wonder how many other counties will stop doing weddings just to save money in the near future. What about the rights of those Christians who work for counties who believe same sex marriage is a sin. Will they be denied their Constitutional rights to freedom of religion and be denied the "free exercise thereof"?
As for what religion should rule in the USA...how about the religion of those who founded this country? They were pilgrims who were Christians.
Hi biggie - don't let Believer push you around. Believer tries to act like he has a direct connection with God. You know what? he doesn't.
Beleiver's narrow views hardly represent those of all Christians. Believer only speaks for one person - himself.
I agree with you, biggie. Jesus never said anything about homosexuals. Why believer and those like him cling to this issue and trumping all others including poverty, the environment, healthcare, education, its just beyond me.
I support gays to have the right to get married. I am a proud Christian. Accepting loving gay married couples into our church will only make our country better!
Congratulations to all the Gay Couples getting Married on Monday in California! Cheers!
Can you imagine the paperwork to "undo" all the same sex marriages after the November vote? Sounds like this person is just trying to do "paperwork reduction".
As for marteblackmon...everyone cannot exercise their rights, under the law, as they see them. Law is created by legislation and approved by the executive branch. Courts don't make law. They deny peoples rights by forcing Christians to 'accept' things that are against Christian morals and in doing so deny their 'free exercise thereof'. Tax money going to provide same sex marriage and abortions are a clear example of this as Christians are responsible for thier money.
Hi fellow believers! Guess what is happening tomorrow?? Gays will have the right to get married in the state of California. What does the conservative U.S. Supreme Court say about gay rights? Lets review Lawrence vs. Texas. In 2003, the court ruled 6-3 striking down the anti-sodomy law that had criminalized homosexual behavior. The ripple effect of this ruling struck down sodomy laws across the U.S. The majority held that intimate consensual sexual conduct was part of the liberty protected by substantive due process under the Fourteenth Amendment.
Kennedy spent most of his opinion casting doubt on the factual findings of the court that homosexual sodomy is a widely and historically condemned practice.
Kennedy cited a 1981 European Court of Human Rights case as part of its argument against the finding that Western civilization condemned homosexuality.
The court struck down the anti-sodomy law as unconstitutional. Its opinion crucially grounded the right of consenting adults to have sex on how intimate and personal the conduct was to those involved, not on the conduct being traditionally protected by society, procreative, or conducted by married people. This opened the door in theory to protection of a whole host of sexual activity between consenting adults not protected by other decisions.
The ruling focuses on consenting adults, BELIEVER, not on your NAMLBA references. I could reference the KKK as Christians and demand that you defend its lynching and hatred. Go ahead if you dare, they are Christians just like you.
Believer: you STILL haven't answered my question. Which religious flavor do you want to make law across the U.S. Is it Evangelical?
It really doesn't matter because the U.S. Constitution trumps all your little dilly-dangling. Freedom of religion means you CAN'T have one religion supercede all others.
That is why you have LOST and the U.S. Constitution has won. That is why on Monday gays will have the same rights and EVERYONE ELSE.
God bless America, and God bless the U.S. Constitution which grants homosexuals all the same rights as everyone else.
The U.S. Constitution has won. Let's all celebrate! This is a victory for America!
Ahh, my apologies to the pro lobby.
As usual our pro-homosexual marriage supporters have walked away from a question I have asked repeatedly and other than a few thumbs down have yet to get a genuine response to, that is why is NAMBLA so supportive of your worthy cause to get same-sex marriage amendments passed throughout our land and in fact contribute large amounts of money to your cause. Why will no one from the pro-homosexual marriage camp respond to my question?
I flagged myself.
believer,
lol, they respond with flagging your message, what guts huh?
While “In God we trust” was being printed on our money, Christians were murdering American Indians and Afro-Americans. Then the North and South started murdering each other.
When murder was deemed illegal they started to discriminate against Indians, Blacks, Orientals, and women.
Now that discrimination is deemed illegal, the Christians are trying to pass laws to enforce their beliefs.
Why do the religious leaders of ALL faiths promote so much hate in the world?
As for Ann Barnett, if a Jew refused to uphold the law (s)he would be fired from the job and should Ann. I know that if I didn’t do my job because my job description was changed I sure would be out of work.
biggie,
The primary point of my story was to illustrate the why + how I would warn a person I thought was harming himself. BTW, what do you mean by "broaden your net"?
As for your idea that "all christians should embrace: the acceptance of monogamous, loving same-sex relationships," then you don't understand Christians. How can we, who have embraced God + His Word above else, turn around + embrace ANY homosexual behavior (married or not) when God has clearly condemned it in both the OT + the NT?
Anyone remember the days when you could read the Christian Post and not see headlines about gays?
http://itsallaboutjesusnotme.blogspot.com
I just think that this is a wonderful country, like none other, where people can still exercise their rights, under the law, as they see them.
Sorry GreaterNW. I like Biggie either didn't read ALL your posts or the one that I at least read had been misread
Biggie:
I forgot to say something. I said that there will be some religion that runs a country. Atheism is a religion, Humanism is a religion, Communism is a religion because it is all based on a belief system that can not be scientifically proven. Evolution is a faith, communism is a faith, Humanism is a faith and every country has a dominant faith. What's yours?
Rollin4him,
Please take the time to read my posts.
LOL! Yo, biggie - there will be some religion to base all law. If you look at our history, it wasn't uncommon to quote the Bible when the made the law. Public schools had chapel time and last time I looked at our coins, we had "In God We Trust" written on them. So to answer your question: Christianity is America! America is Christianity. Ask any other nation in the world what religion we are and see what answer you get. What "flavor" of Christianity: That's actually a bit easier. Since all denominations 20 or so years ago condemned homosexual behavior - well it wouldn't matter what "flavor". Today, some have bowed to the gay agenda, but still a vast majority uphold the Word of God.
By the way, our nation was built on the Bible's way and not a denominational way. A bit more history for you: We still use the Bible in our courts of law and swearing in of officials.
Now are you able to tell me any history of a society that has lasted that has supported gay activities. I know of one that was recorded thousands of years ago and it was destroyed.
Biggie,
No, we do not agree at all, you have purposefully misunderstood my comments. But that seems to be your M.O..
Marriage had always been and should stay an exclusively male/female issue. You claim gays seems to feel like they are being prevented from entering in to the relationships they want. I simply pointed out they are free to do whatever they want to do and keep their hands off of others traditions. Go create your own.
Marriage between man and woman is the basic building block of society. You keep saying that no harm will come by allowing gays to marry but this flies in the face of the evidence.
We saw what happened when we redefined marriage and created the divorce culture and we can look to Europe where they have allowed gay marriage and marriage has lost all meaning what so ever. It did a great deal of harm. We have plenty of experience of what happens when we try to redefine marraige. It is all negative.
chicago24 and sunshine, since you both insist that marriage is changing are you saying there should be no boundaries to marriage whatsoever or is there a situation where marriage should not be allowed and once again I ask you why is NAMBLA so interested in seeing same-sex marriage amendments passed to the point they contribute large amounts of cash to this cause since their major concern is get society to accept their view with regards to men having sexual relations with boys?
The God of the Bible. The Lord Jesus Christ, That book that you mock declares that, " The fool has said in his heart there is no God."
But one day that matter too shall be settled.
I beleive that it would do us all well to look to Christ as the example. In this world no matter what branch of religion you look at there is going to be the bad example.
That is why I do not lift up a man, a Church or a denomination Never mind what man says, or what a church might say, But I will tell you something, You had better pay close attention to what Christ says.
You had better pay close attention to what the Bible says. Never mind what I say, But O, You better know the mind of Christ on the subject.
You can knock me apart all you want, insult me if you please, But one day we will all stand before a Holy God, and " Then what.?"
which god, atrm???
God will have the last " Word ".
rolln4him:
you didn't answer my question. Which interpretation of religion do you want to impose upon all others in America?
Bhuddist, Hinduism, Judaism, Taoism, Confucsionism, Lutheran, Protestant, Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Methodist, Episcipalean, Baptist, Evangelical, and this list goes on and on and on...
So, you honestly believe it is in the best interest of the United States of America to confirm its laws to the law of one of these religions?
Well, why don't you choose which religion you wish to overrule everyone else's rights? Which one is it?
Sunshineforall;
I think you have a shallow worldview. If you're a Christian, then you don't have to read too far into the Scripture to realize that homosexual activity was important enough to be addressed by the Lord. If you're not a Christian and like my non-Christian friends, they don't want to legitimize supposed "gay marriage" simply because anatomically it doesn't make sense to them and they don't think they should have tax breaks because they think it's a perverted lifestyle.
Biggie and GreatNW:
Remember those Catholic priest WERE GAY, which only supports the research (not my research by the way) that nearly 80% of gay men are pedophiles. This brings another interest fact: Gays in the military have LIED to get into the military. When they sign on, they had to sign that they would adhere to the conduct of the military - no homosexuals are allowed. In other words, they had to LIE to get into the military. So gays in the military are liars. Another moral lapse on their part. Of course, the gay agenda is all about infiltrating. They don't care about respecting anyone else's rights, all they care about is their ow selfish selves.
Take the Boy Scouts in point. How many scout leaders have molested boys in this organization? Too many cases to list here, but it's all about infiltration. They've harassed, sued and demonized a great organization that has withstood assaults from the gay agenda. What about respecting their rights to have a God based organization that does nothing but good for society. Shame on the gays for assaulting and harassing this great organization.
Hi Wilderness1 - you are funny. You quoted those three biblical passages lord knows how many times. Why not share your original thoughts and contribute to the discussion?
Chicago24 - I agree with you. Society advances. The biblical passages are of enormous literature value, but they must be taken in context that they were written over 2000 years ago. Society advances.
Interracial marriage is a perfect example.
Wilderness1 - can you find the passages in the bible that segregationists referred to a mere 50 years ago trying to prevent integration? Share those!
“And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man” (Genesis 2:22).
Adam was a son of God (Luke 3:38) and God gave his son a woman (wife), not a husband or a male partner. God is not behind homosexual unions. Such are unseemly.
New life waits in Christ. Why perish? “Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Mt 3:2).
This is identical of those counties in the South who refused to issue all marriage licenses back in 1967 when they were ordered to marry couples of different races.
Same thing.
Whoever says that "marriage has always been the same throughout human history" refuses to acknowledge any and all human history.
I agree with RonWilson4u. There is too much talk on the Christian Post about gay issues. Why do we care so much? Let's move on and focus on solving the problems of poverty, crime, education, healthcare, and the environment.
Christian Post - please remove "Gay Issues" from your website, and please... please... please... stop printing headlines about gay issues. Why do we care??
Hi GreatNW;
I think we agree! We both have a disdain for lawyers. We also believe that its in the best interest of society to allow same-sex consenting adults to form the same type of relationships as straight ones.
If I am interpreting you right, the concern you have is the changing of traditions. But I fail to see how if two same-sex persons get married, how does that is any way diminish your traditions? You can continue to have the same wedding that you always dreamed of.
Who here can tell me that their own marriage will be threatened and likely result in divorce as a result of implementation of California implementing same-sex marriage?
Show me causality of harm that same-sex marriage will cause your own marriage?
Hi Rollin4Him: I thought 80% of Catholic priests were pedophiles? hehehe Obviously my statistic is just as foolish as yours.
Hi mathetis: I agree with you that smoking causes harm to individuals resulting in lung disease and cancer. But how does your analogy correlate to gays? Especially consider the position which all christians should embrace: the acceptance of monogamous, loving same-sex relationships is just as healthy as straight relationships.
Do you refer to STDs, mathetis? If so, broaden your net! STDs can be prevented by monogamous relationships. That is exactly why I advocate christians to embrace m9onogamy. Two same-sex persons who are chaste amongst themselves do not contribute to spread of STDs. That is one reason why same-sex marriage benefits society.
Rollin4him:
Here is the tricky path you go down when you legislate your own favor of religion. Let's ask a simply question. How many different flavors of religion are there? Bhuddist, Hinduism, Judaism, Taoism, Confucsionism, and the list goes on almost indefinitely. Especially when you look at the flavors of religions for those who believe in Christ. Oh my! Lutheran, Protestant, Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Methodist, Episcipalean, Baptist, Evangelical, and this list goes on and on and on...
So, you honestly believe it is in the best interest of the United States of America to confirm its laws to the law of one of these religions?
Well, why don't you choose which religion you wish to overrule everyone else's rights? Which one is it?
Gays are free to form any sort of relationship traditions they want. Heterosexual marriages have centuries of both secular and civil tradition behind their development. If the gay community wanted to embrace monogamy then it is free to do so and begin the process of creating their own traditions and history. Isn't this multiculturalism and celebrating diversity? Respecting the different traditions from different cultures?
You cannot simply create tradition through the courts and legislation and expect it to have the same meaning as heterosexual marriage with all of it's centuries of traditions. That is just goofy. The real meaning of gay "marriages" will be based on what society observes them to be and what the gay community makes of them. You cannot co-op a tradition from one group and expect it apply to another group. Is that rationale?
It is in the best interest of society to stop redefining marriage. We did it once and it was a disaster. The break down of the family has had enormous costs to society. We redefined marriage once by moving away from the idea of marriage as a lifetime commitment and now we want to stretch the definition some more? You can only stretch something so much before it completely snaps. In the end it will have no meaning at all.
Why will this be any different? Of course, it will be a boom for divorce lawyers
Biggie;
The bigger question here is: What will the gay community do with The Church (capitalized to emphasize the believers as a whole). The only law more important to man's law to The Church is God's law. God says that homosexuality is an abomination, so we have an inevitable clash. It's not only the Christians, but what about the orthodox Jews and Muslims as well? Ummmm, all I see is calamity for the homosexual. Nowhere in history do you see gay utopia, because those societies have collapsed before it materializes. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? Name me a society where there's rich gay history? None, nor will there ever be. Heed God's Word, repent and be baptized for the Kingdom of God is near!
biggie,
It's legal for my friend to smoke 3 packs a day, but no one would call it healthy. Associated with this behavior are costs to himself, his family, + society. If I truly care about him, I will not be silent, but with love I will warn him what his behavior will bring.
Am I "smoke-a-phobic" for doing so? Not necessarily, though 2nd hand smoke could cause problems for me + others. I warn him primarily because I care about him; I'm much less worried about myself, increased insurance costs, etc.
biggie said: It is in the best interest of society to encourage gays to embrace monogamy and choose a same-sex life partner.
It is not in the best interest of society to encourage this. To encourage this type of sinful, disgusting lifestyle is to be at odds with God. You see, when liberals like yourself, and you aren't kidding anyone here as to who you really are, understand that true believers do not consider man's law supreme over God's, the sooner you'll realize that we as true believers will NEVER accept gay marriage, much less encourage it, the better.
Anyone remember the days when you could read the Christian Post and not see headlines about gays?
http://itsallaboutjesusnotme.blogspot.com
Obviously there is no reason to stand up against gays. To stand up against gays is a form a discrimination. Gays represent a minority in the country. The greatest estimates are that 10% of the population is gay. That number is highly suspect, and recent census data which may be underreported suggests that approximately 3% of the population is gay.
So, what is all the fuss about? If one accepts the premise that America is a free country, why should one be against a group of individuals pursuing their happiness as a gay committed loving couple?
Since 2003 when the U.S. Supreme Court overruled anti-sodomy laws in Lawrence vs Texas, laws that forbade same-sex relationships became unconstitutional. As a result, homosexuality cannot be made illegal.
The rationale person then must question, what should America do with homosexuality now that t no longer can be made illegal.
Put another way, homosexuality in America is here to stay. Like it or not. So, what should we do with homosexuals? I encourage all Christians to encourage gay marriage. Why? Because gay marriage is in the best interest of society.
Ask yourself, if gays are to be tolerated in America, should we encourage gays to embrace monogamy with a loving, caring same-sex life partner? Or should we banish gays into the shadows of society, not accepting them for who they are?
It is in the best interest of society to encourage gays to embrace monogamy and choose a same-sex life partner.
"But gay activists and supporters, including San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom who has offered to perform same-sex “marriages” in Kern County, are suspect of her decision, with some calling it poorly disguised discrimination against same-sex couples."
Umm how?? They aren't preforming on heterosexual couples as well. I don't see how that is discriminatory!
Biggie,
So what is your response?
Hi GreatNW... you are funny... :-) Why is it necessary to stand up against gays?
Drichner,
This is not an issue based only on religious issues. However, we seem to be the only ones able to stand up against the gay lobby. Society redefined marriage in the 60's with no-fault divorce and created the divorce culture. The results have been a disaster. It is estimated that it costs society 112 billion a year dealing with the cost of fall out. And now we want to redefine marriage again? Did we not learn from our mistakes? Consequently, what you do you in your bedroom is very much societies business when you expect society to pay for the costs to clean up the mess.
Christians should accept that the word 'marriage' became tainted when civil authorities decided to apply it to homosexual unions. Rather than fighting for a word, let us use the New-Testament Greek word 'ghamos' (accent on first syllable, plural ghamoi) for all unions that comply to what God gave us in Genesis 2. Of course the practicing homosexuals will immediately pick up the term. But it is unlikely that the government will follow them.
I propose in all sincerity that Christians immediately begin by issuing marriage invitations with this new word, e.g. ''You are invited to the ghamos of ....''
I see no other way if we want to retain what we lost when the holy word 'marriage' (which Satan has always hated, by the way) became 'gender-neutral', or applicable to the union between same-sex couples, and thus more agreeable to the Evil One and his followers.
Comments?
“For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man” (1 Corinthians 11:8, 9)
Those who are in homosexual relationships can neither be of the other nor be a creation for the other. Such relationships are against God and are unnatural and unclean.
New life waits in Christ. Why perish? “Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Mt 3:2).
Excellent point drichner! I meant to comment about that as well.
Way to go, Ann Barnett! It's nice to see someone at least trying to take a stand.