As Barack Obama broadens his outreach to evangelical voters, one of the movement's biggest names, James Dobson, accuses the likely Democratic presidential nominee of distorting the Bible and pushing a "fruitcake interpretation" of the Constitution.
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(Photo: AP Images / Alex Brandon)Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., talks with women during a round table discussion at the Flying Star Cafe facility in Albuquerque, N.M., Monday, June 23, 2008.
The criticism, to be aired Tuesday on Dobson's Focus on the Family radio program, comes shortly after an Obama aide suggested a meeting at the organization's headquarters here, said Tom Minnery, senior vice president for government and public policy at Focus on the Family.
The conservative Christian group provided The Associated Press with an advance copy of the pre-taped radio segment, which runs 18 minutes and highlights excerpts of a speech Obama gave in June 2006 to the liberal Christian group Call to Renewal. Obama mentions Dobson in the speech.
"Even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools?" Obama said. "Would we go with James Dobson's or Al Sharpton's?" referring to the civil rights leader.
Dobson took aim at examples Obama cited in asking which Biblical passages should guide public policy — chapters like Leviticus, which Obama said suggests slavery is OK and eating shellfish is an abomination, or Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, "a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application."
"Folks haven't been reading their Bibles," Obama said.
Dobson and Minnery accused Obama of wrongly equating Old Testament texts and dietary codes that no longer apply to Jesus' teachings in the New Testament.
"I think he's deliberately distorting the traditional understanding of the Bible to fit his own worldview, his own confused theology," Dobson said.
"... He is dragging biblical understanding through the gutter."
Joshua DuBois, director of religious affairs for Obama's campaign, said in a statement that a full reading of Obama's speech shows he is committed to reaching out to people of faith and standing up for families. "Obama is proud to have the support of millions of Americans of faith and looks forward to working across religious lines to bring our country together," DuBois said.
Dobson reserved some of his harshest criticism for Obama's argument that the religiously motivated must frame debates over issues like abortion not just in their own religion's terms but in arguments accessible to all people.
He said Obama, who supports abortion rights, is trying to govern by the "lowest common denominator of morality," labeling it "a fruitcake interpretation of the Constitution."
"Am I required in a democracy to conform my efforts in the political arena to his bloody notion of what is right with regard to the lives of tiny babies?" Dobson said. "What he's trying to say here is unless everybody agrees, we have no right to fight for what we believe."
The program was paid for by a Focus on the Family affiliate whose donations are taxed, Dobson said, so it's legal for that group to get more involved in politics.
Last week, DuBois, a former Assemblies of God associate minister, called Minnery for what Minnery described as a cordial discussion. He would not go into detail, but said Dubois offered to visit the ministry in August when the Democratic National Convention is in Denver.
A possible Obama visit was not discussed, but Focus is open to one, Minnery said.
McCain also has not met with Dobson. A McCain campaign staffer offered Dobson a meeting with McCain recently in Denver, Minnery said. Dobson declined because he prefers that candidates visit the Focus on the Family campus to learn more about the organization, Minnery said.
Dobson has not backed off his statement that he could not in good conscience vote for McCain because of concerns over the Arizona senator's conservative credentials. Dobson has said he will vote in November but has suggested he might not vote for president.
Obama recently met in Chicago with religious leaders, including conservative evangelicals. His campaign also plans thousands of "American Values House Parties," where participants discuss Obama and religion, as well as a presence on Christian radio and blogs.
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I think people cared more about the economy in this election and that will come back and bite us in the butt if we don't pray. Don't worry folks, GOD is not mocked. Obama may be saying what he says now , then dancing before the LORD like David soon. Let us pray he is radically changed for Christ like Paul. amen
Obama is backed by Satan. It will only be by the grace of God in light of His extreme mercy if Obama is not elected president. Literally he is not what this country needs, but exactly what this country deserves! (Over 40 million aborted children are singing the Amen Chorus to that last remark!) Obama wants America to be the poster picture of all the radical ideals he has crammed into his brain during his quest for world domination. He can't help it! He simply is the product of all the militant, Islamic, gangster, blasphemic role models under whom he has sat on his rise to where he now stands. Pray for America - that God will once again bless America and not turn from her as she has turned from following Him. Pray for Obama's salvation! Pray for John McCain and Sarah Palin! Seek the Lord's will in accordance with His Word and you will not be disappointed. Pray for America!
The Message Says in Romans 14:9
That's why Jesus lived and died and then lived again: so that he could be our Master across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other.
Laws merely keep honest people honest.
As for the abolishonists...Making a law doesn't take away a person's self-will. Our over-crowded prison system will testify to that. Laws simply present a consequence for an action.
I'm sure there were people who tried convince Abram that it couldn't have been God that told him to leave his home and travel to who-knows-where. There were certainly many who told Noah that he couldn't have heard from God. God couldn't possibly have told him to do something that stupid.
Judging whether a man makes a right decision about the direction his life should go is a far cry from judging whether someone is a liar, theif, murderer, etc. You're comparing apples to onions.
Oh geez. Not this William Wilberforce garbage again. Sigh.
"God tell us to do and rebuke others. But you cannot force them to obey. Yes, we should warn others about their actions and take a stand. But they still have a right to make their choice."
Does this mean that the abolitionists were in fact wrong and that William Wilberforce was misguided for going into politics rather than the clergy???
And Obama is still a muslim...
until he explains why he is a Christian and not a muslim...why Jesus and not allah, why Jesus and not muhammed...when the rest of his family is muslim and backs him all the way...
and when the new york times...a newspaper that ought to be defending freedom of speech when and where freedom of speech is being attacked in the U.N. by no other than those nations that systematically persecute nonmuslims...the OIC, who are pursuing an agenda in the U.N. to stifle any speech on sharia or so called extremist muslims...
and the new york times does nothing to warn Americans of these events that are pivotal in western societies survival, but instead publishes articles that militate against Macleans(magazine) fight in Canadas kangaroo courts that are being used by muslims to stifle free speech there....
and the NYT publishes articles questioning why people think obama is a muslim when he said he isnt...and yet provides nothing more as a reason other than obama says so....
compels me to think that the NYT is interested in supporting the likes of the OIC, who wish to persecute those that do not accept islam to be peaceful and point out that sharia law oppresses women...and humanity... but withing a few minutes time are quashed because the U.N. is submitting to the demands of the O.I.C.
Why doesnt the NYT report on that, so that americans may know who their true enemies are?
Personally, I think Dobson's characterization of what Obama believes, based upon MY readings of what he has said are right on.
For the record, I've been a Christain for over 22 years. Grew up in a Baptist church, and voted Republican all my life. I've always loved and respected Dr. Dobson. I've been listening to him on the radio since I was 16.
That said, I have to ask if anyone else out there was sadden by his misrepresentation and mischaracterization of Obama's comments. I'm not advocating that what he said was right or wrong (that's a differnt thread). I'm just wondering if anyone out there actually read Obama's speech and then listened to Dobson's show and compared his comments the Obama's actual meaning?
There are several examples, but I will just mention the one that I was most disappointed in. At one point, Dobson and the other guy (Tom Minnery, I think). They take issue with Obama's reference to the Law commanding the stoning of a son for leaving the faith. They provide some historical context (which is fine), but they conclude by correcting Obama, pointing out that Deut 21 says to stone the son for rebelliousness, etc, and then mock him saying he should read his Bible. Unfortunately, Obama's is referencing Deut 13 and his assertion is correct. I was incredibly surprised that no one on Dobson's staff bothered to check. You can see the obvious come back - Dobson should go read his Bible. I was very embarrased for him.
There are several more things like this. So I was just wondering if anyone out there read both and had any thoughts on this topic.
Thanks
:)
There is NO call in the Bible to be political and legislate chritian laws of worship! Jesus said MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD! There is NO Christian Nations on this earth and there is NO call for one. We are NOT a Christian Nation, but rather a nation of Christians. We should NEVER try to create a theocracy, nor Legislate morality. Follow the Old Testament nation of Israel---It did not work hence New Covenant! We have no good candidates that qualify as Christian nor will we.
The government creates laws to protect the people - no stealing, no murder, etc. This is legislation of morality.
The big question is upon what do we base these laws...?
It used to be they were based upon the Bible (sometimes the Bible was used to justify bad behavior and for expediency sake others who did not agree chose to not force the issue). Now, in this country, we have no basis for our laws. As such, laws are being used to try to force the embracing as good and valid that which the Bible says is bad behavior.
Combined with the liberal media, selfishness, and law making judges, the lack of a basis for laws is causing the morals of this country to degenerate.
1man,
I believe all legislation is based on ethics from a religious worldview whether it is Biblical, humanist, Islamic, etc, which is intended to control the behavior of the population, not each citizens beliefs.
We are called upon to be the salt and light to the world and priveleged to be participants within a constitutional republic as citizens of this great nation. I believe we have a God given responsibility to influence legislation to reflect the will of God so that we can have a government operate per Romans 13 as a servant to God to carry out God's will.
holito8; Doesn't 'Don’t give what is holy to dogs or toss your pearls before pigs, or they will trample them with their feet, turn, and tear you to pieces.'
Matt 7:6 (HCSB) tell us to keep the rebuking within the body of Christ? We are to be Christ's ambassadors to the world and represent Christ in a winsome way, not in a harsh manner as we are dealing with captives to the lies of the world which we once were.
To say one can not legislate morality is like saying you can't set rules for your children and expect them to obey them. Or like saying a business can not set the rules of conduct at work.
Of course you can! They may or may not be not obeyed, but that is what discipline and police and courts are supposed to be for.
But by changing laws to set the stanrdards for behavior, over time, those behaviors become expected, ingrained and for most automatically obeyed by the majority.
"If we were more active in doing God word", "God tell us to do and rebuke others. But you cannot force them to obey. Yes, we should warn others about their actions and take a stand. But they still have a right to make their choice."
I think what Holito is triing to say is that you can't legislate morality. I agree with this but at the same time I believe "certain rights" should never be tampered with EX: right to life which is affected by abortions, wars, and the economy (just look at third world countries). Concerning homosexuals I do not agree with their agenda or their cause nor do I think because they have a sexual orientation they should receive special treatment, nor should I because of mine.
Unfortunately the time we live in is the result of those before us who did not affect their culture as they should have (for whatever reason)and we have the fruit of a generation ignorant of God, the Lord Jesus, and the Holy Spirit resulting in the great american melting pot of political controversy.....if there were more christians surely there would not be so much turmoil.
I agree with believer.
Holito is a bit misguided. Great to quote scripture, but to not stand by brothers and sisters that work tireless to defend the innocent and call sin destructive is counterproductive to His Word.
holito8, are you saying that people like James Dobson, Richard Land, and Chuck Colson are out of God's will because they are heavily involved in combatting abortion, the homosexual agenda, and secular humanism, that it might not be possible that this is what God has called them to join Him in doing. I have no problem with what your saying that we need to be about the business of the proclamation of God's Word, but if your saying we should not join him in protecting the lives of unborn children as well as other issues that are causing the moral decay we see in our country today, I believe your sadly mistaken to say that this is not of God.
Everyone is worried about abortions, gays, wars, and the economy. Where is God in any of these? These are the desires of men. Men worry about these things. Satan promises this of the world to men. Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
Luke 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
before me, I will give you all the desires When we are ignorant of His word we get caught up in things that God will handle. God tells us to learn His word, store it in our hearts, meditate on it day and night and do His word. If we were more active in doing God word, these things God would handle. Let us not be like Sarah who decide to aid God by offering Hagar to Abraham; God told Job where were you when I laid out the foundation of the world. Where were you when decision were being made? God tell us to do and rebuke others. But you cannot force them to obey. Yes, we should warn others about their actions and take a stand. But they still have a right to make their choice.
Choose ye this day whom you will serve God of Abramham, Issac and Jacob or other gods. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.
"Abortion is no longer directly tax payer funded."
Actually you must have missed the story here about the troops funding bill being approved where a rider got booted off. It was a rider which would have given federal money to Planned Parenthood. This sort of thing happens all the time and goes mostly unnoticed that groups like Planned Parenthood get federal money.
It was fortunate the rider was dropped.
JHS,
You seem to enjoy attacking those of us who appreciate GW Bush. Do you really expect to change any opinions by your rants? A little common courtesy goes a long way.
FYI:
Partial birth abortions have been banned.
Abortion is no longer directly tax payer funded.
Unfortunately the liberals are working on a Planned Parenthood fund increase (supposedly to services that are not directly abortions).
You also called Republicans greedy. That's interesting considering it is left wing socialists who practically run the Democratic Party and their vision of redistribution of wealth. When someone becomes successful in the market place, who am I to condemn them as greedy? Who am I to assist in the seizure of their properties and goods be it legally or otherwise; whether at the gun point of a law man or the gun point of a madman?
Curious JHS, how many homeless people have you took out to eat? I can remember when I was only making five bucks an hour driving a school bus part time and taking guys up to the fast food counter and buying them dinner. This is authenticity. The communist platform tends to generally point in one direction - M E ! Looking at the statistics for giving, liberals aren't exactly at the top. But when it comes to coercively giving other people's money away they are very generous.
jhs - in previous post, you insinuated that we shouldn't get rid of all abortions - true? You say you're think gays should get married - right? Do you think Jesus is the ONLY way, Truth and life?
JHS - you big BABY!!!
How many terrorists attacks have we had on American soil???? Sure must be nice to live in relative peace. Million to one, you were all for war like many democrats right after 9-11, but now that it seems politically convenient, you're all against it. Babies!! Enjoy the peace, hypocrite because Bush gave it to you.
jhs, Based on your premise that Bush has caused more women to seek abortions for economic reasons, then why has the number of abortions not gone up even with the liberals doing their best and unfortunately all too successfully to keep laws banning partial birth abortions from either being passed or enacted, too include both Obama and H. Clinton.
rolln4him :
hypocrite huh? Well lets see, I am against abortions, but thats not good enough, my counsin and her husband adopted 7 kid from the former soviet union, I have personally donated to catholic charities unwed mother program here in my community. You will never outlaw abortions, but it does not mean you stop going to mass.
AS for Bush being God's gift to you neo cons, the flat out lied flat lied us into Iraq, has managed to screw up afghanistan, his economic policies of leave no millionaire behind has sent housing market bust, not to mention as a former oil man, he loves whats going on now.
How many lives has Bush destroyed in the last 7 years? Hypocrite huh? Even the US Catholic bishops said iraq was an unjust war, or do you just want to ignore that?
who's the hypocrite??????????????
believer :
For the record the late 90's saw the largest decrease in abortions....check your facts.
jhs, based on your assumption, Pres. Bush must be doing a good job since the number of abortions has decreased since he has been in office. Plus please define what defines an economice reason for getting an abortion and are you also saying that abortion is a poor person's problem. As I said earlier I believe the statistics you are citing are based on information from the abortion industry who are trying to legitamize the murdering of unborn babies for profit. Plus I have not attacked you I have simply challenged what I consider to be faulty data that you presented. Whereas you on the other hand have made the assumption that I have not done anything to stop the murder of unborn babies which is not only an attack, but a bold face lie, however in the future when I do challenge you I will do my best to ensure you see it as a challenge and not an attack.
Bravo to John the Baptist!
I am glad not to listen to the Communist gospel it is an Obamanation!
jhs -
Like I said, I'm not a big fan of Robertson, but I don't have to stand with him on judgment day either. He still professes Christ; so he's in.
Actually, you're just as much a hypocrite as any of them are by attending the Catholic church yet don't adhere to their teachings on social issues. Right?
It appears that the real question is whether or not God is the ultimate authority and the veracity of His word. Obama claims to be a Christian and claims he knows the Bible but it is very clear that he has denied the authority of Christ and ignores the proper role of government as an instrument for carrying out His will as found in Romans 13... "Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God. ...For government is God’s servant to you for good." This is the position Dobson & Minnery hold as found in "Why you can't stay silent." Dobson has made it clear that Obama fails miserably at this truth with his, Obama's, fruitcake theology and McCain is not an acceptable candidate either.
I would suggest that Obama is playing by the Machiavellian play book: "It is most important that rulers--and even more so, would be rulers--appear to be religious...appearing to be religious assures those who see you that, because you appear to believe in God, you can be trusted to have all the other virtues." from 10 Books that Screwed up the World. There are a lot of itching ears that are falling for the lies of the world.
rolln4him
"700 Club Pat (though I'm not a huge fan of his) has the Mercy Ships that are floating hospitals. You certainly have venomous"
Robertson has become a multi millionaire off the back his tax exempt ministry he sold the family channel to murdock after harranged to get everyone in his family shares of stock needless to say that got him in some trouble. He was knee deep in the blood diamond trade as well, made millions, These are facts period. What little he does by comparison to his personal net worth, make Catholic charities look like heaven on earth.
believer ;msnchris70 et al;
You guys can attack me all you want, however you talk out of both sides of you mouth, the majority of abortions are done for economic reason, you do not know what you are talking about. As far as Planned parenthood it's a business and frankly a disgusting one at that. But unless the economic situation is dealt with you can blame democrats all you want, the republicans had full control of the white house, supreme court and congress til 06, and we still have abortions. The truth is tha Bush et al have major damage to the middle class in this country, just like his daddy. They no more tried to get rid abortion than you did. I do not like abortion, and until you deal with the human heart of greed, which is most people vote republican, and start taking care of the health care crisis, and getting people good paying jobs, something that Bush et al HAS NOT DONE just the oposite. You can bemoan abortions, but they are not going away.
msnchris70 :
I am very much against abortion etc, however the republican ran gongress til 2006. they control the supreme court and the white house, with all due respect, gays have rights as citizens, but I do not march in parades for them. So with all due respect, shove it!
The gospel is not a republican origination nor a democrat document. The gospel shows no political preference. Our biggest concern is whether or leader has a heart after God. The books of the Kings shows what can happen if our leader is not after God's own heart. Kings tell about leaders who led the people astray and those that did not.
Obama made this statement.
"Folks haven't been reading their Bibles," Obama said.
God tells us in Romans what happen to the people. They thought it wise not to retain the knowledge of God. They worship the creation more than the creator. The book of Amos chapter 4 tells us the curses that are inflicted upon the people for disobeying God's word.
We forget the devil accuses us before God. If we have not been following God's word, He cannot bless us. However, God must act; thus there is only one course left. God must curse us. Deuteronomy tells both the blessing for following God word and curses for disobeying.
Justme984,
Try Acts 10:11-15 and 1 Timothy 4:1-5. There you will find the answers you seek.
Some people seem to have the erroneous idea that Dobson is a sold out Republican. Simply do a search "Dobson" here on CP at his statements and you will know otherwise.
Also I think it hard pressed to label Dobson as a dominionist. You may hate him because he is a psychologist, if you are a part of that persuasion, but a dominionist? I think not! Was William Wilberforce a dominionist because he fought against the slave trade?
We are living in the end times. Obama's theology is also the way Oprah understands. Oprah thought God is jealous of her. A very poor Theology indeed. Obama needs to come to my Church and learn the true Gospel.
msunkes, I hate that Goodnewsnow.com website. They copied articles from other websites, and only displays the title, we need to login to read them just a few lines, we will have to finally visit the full article from websites like The Christian Post. Are you earning well with the ads there?
I sense a bigger move under way. Time is nearly up for this age and the next President will be a metaphorical one. Whether he believes rightly or not may raise eyebrows for most. But, whosoever is most effective (directly or indirectly) in the area of the Great Commission will be the one that I trust God to place in the Oval Office. I admit that some views held by both candidates are worthy of review but I rely on God's Sovereignty in the end. The Gospel will be preached in all the earth and after this, the end of the age will be upon us. Let us rise and be on our way to fulfilling the last Great Commandment of Our King before He ascended on High (on the cloud) - Amen?
Obama represents the epitome of misleading anti-biblical Christian theology. All flash & dash but no mash (substance).
A link to this article has been posted on the website GoodNewsNow.com.
believer -
You've always have brought words of great encouragement and resounding Truth (great parallel to Laeodician)- alas! We stand as one friend!
rollin4him, I think jhs professes to be a believer and possibly even a Catholic, but like you I have far more patience with true non-believers than with someone who says they are a believer and then totally trash other believers and even worse the Word of God, but then expect those of us who hold to the truthes of God's Word to do so by their interpretation of the Scriptures. At best I personally believe they are Laeodician type Christians and if that the case Christ says they make Him sick to His stomach and He wants to spew them from His mouth. If a person sincerely has a belief that is not in synch with God's Word that one thing but for someone to just flippantly reject or handle God's Word that's totally out of line. Be blessed as you serve Him, believer
msn-
I love it - rotweiler and doberman! Thanks brother for your post!!
For what it's worth, the Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization on the planet. Add up every agency and they won't even equal 75% of the Charitable giving of our Catholic Church.
Also, I have to say Dr.Dobson is one of the most Holy Protestant men I've ever met other than Dr. Billy Graham.
You go get'em Dobson!!! God is with you!
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Obama's idea of taking a stand is standing up so he can change his mind before he sits down again.
He constantly changes his espoused position to meet his needs. His position on not using the federal campaign funds for instance:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080619/ap_on_el_pr/obama_money
He is reminds me of another slick willy and I don't doubt we will see things similar to what we saw when billy bob was in office.
JHS,
By supporting Obama you would participate with five intrinsic evils. Cooperating with any intrinsic evil is informal automatic excommunication, where you must go to confession because of your licit support for Obama and his evil views on abortion, stem cell research, euthanasia, gay marriage, cloning, etc.
You should not receive communion if you vote for Obama and you will need to go to confession only if you are willing to fully support the culture of life and traditional marriage which is the foundation of soceity. Social justice issues which you presented are important, but killing innocent human life is never allowed and supporting disordered gay marriages is an abomination.
Republicans could do a better job on Health Care and working for more social justice for the poor, but please do me a favor and not even equate those issues with killing of the innocents and gay marriage. You would reveal yourself to be just like Kerry, Pelosi, Kennedy and Guiliani.
Have a hiearchy of values as the USCCB sugests.
GO GET 'EM Dobson!!! Dobson is a Doberman for the Lord and the Pope is the Lord's Rotweiler. Stand firm!
Allow me to continue - in the battle of ideology, there's no room for the weak! They need to go lick their wounds elsewhere.
OK - I'm done
chicago -
I can handle an unbeliever stating what jhs says, but when people go around claiming to be Christian and attack their own - I have little tolerance. The Catholic church is ruthlessly attacked from outsiders and they hold their ground, but when they have supposed members of their own church criticize from within then it's time for them to leave. Be brave and leave the church I say!!! Angry? YES!!
jhs, your not serious about a majority of abortions being done for economic reasons, what planned parenthood propaganda have you been reading. The main reason abortions are done is a matter of convenience the mother, the father, and/or the parents do not want to be held accountable for their actions. And please don't quote any statistics from the pro-abortion industry whose livelihood is garnered from the murder of unborn babies. They will turn statistics any way they need to to protect their wallets.
"I think he's deliberately distorting the traditional understanding of the Bible to fit his own worldview, his own confused theology," Dobson said.
another worshipper of antiquity making a statement that is so loaded with bibical mindset that i wonder if dobson himself, understands completely what he is talking about.
what is also sad is that there is no recognition of the authority of christ and of the holy spirit, the teacher of all truth.
there not any acknowledgement of him having his own understandin. instead the impression is my understanding is the correct understanding because it has antiquity on its side.
where in scripture does it say that antiquity is a test for the truth.
by taking this stand he is limiting, if not trumping......."you will recognize them by their fruit," and "i have a lot more to tell you that you could not now bear"
accusing another believer of doing a deliberate act of evil...........for the sake of his own gain, with nothing more than the above statements reeks of false witness.
rolln4him:
Wow! You are one angry puppy! I have never come across anyone so angry over the Good News. . .
The heaalth laws in Lev are still good laws today. Nothing in the Bible says they were recinded. The foods forbidden because they were not ever intended to be eaten. Where in the Bible does it say those foods are now good to eat?
jhs -
You said: "On the point about medical centers, homelss shelter etc, the Catholic church is about the only one in that camp." The baptist and the methodist are proportionately equal so you're stating an false claim. But that's OK because you simply emphasized my point that Christian ARE in fact doing something for the poor. You're just as ignorant concerning Dobson and other Christian para-church organization as they give millions of dollars to charitable donations personally. 700 Club Pat (though I'm not a huge fan of his) has the Mercy Ships that are floating hospitals. You certainly have venomous regard for them and to some degree I can understand, but you're also ignorant about them at the same time which makes it difficult for those that know the situation to respect you.
jhs -
"There is room in this country for both sides" - really? Obviously, your church doesn't think so. I think you'd do yourself and your church a favor and LEAVE! I'm not Roman Catholic, but I certainly respect their tireless fight to hold to godly principles and you're a disgrace. They should excommunicate you (I don't know about your wife) like they are trying to do with John "two faced" Kerry and the Kennedy Family (Oh, I think they have a bit of a bank account don't they?). They are only Catholic in name and you sound like you're in this crowd.
So, uh, is Herr Doktor Dobson inferring that he alone is capable of interpreting the Bible? Perhaps it would be prudent of him to bring in Ted Haggard, John Hagee, Rod Parsley, Jerry Fallwell (I know, he's dead, but since when does that matter?), Pat Robertson, Billy James Hargis (also dead but a great demagogue), and Donald Wildmon.
Look at articles from, of all newsletters, "The Christian Post":
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080610/southern-baptists-called-to-look-at-reality.htm
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080610/survey-obama-in-strong-position-to-win-08-election.htm
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080611/obama-to-woo-young-evangelicals-catholics.htm
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080611/christian-leaders-meet-privately-with-obama.htm
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080612/southern-baptists-remain-wary-of-mccain.htm
Dobson proclaiming superiority in Biblical interpretation is kinda like Rush Limbaugh claiming superiority of demagoguery over Joseph Goebbels.
Just additional effort by Dobson and his fellow travelers to paint themselves deeper into the corner of irrelevance. Forever.
Dobson has no problem condeming democrats, even though Bush put a Koran in the white house, call muslims his brothers, which I believe since his family is knee deep with the saudis'. But as long as it's a republican it ok. Dobson is a 2 faced hypocrital joke. He bemoans abortions, I do not like abortions either, but most of them are done because of economic reasons, and republicans have done more damage to working middle income in this country than even Hoover could have dreamed of. But he's standing on the the "truth" as long as his tax bracket stays low.
reply to rolln4him ;
I am a Roman Catholic and for the record my wife and I attend mass, and not just on the Holy Days either. You are correct about what the happen to the adoption agency, it was disgusting, I do know gay people who have adopted or raised kids. There is room in this country for both sides, and the intolerance goes both ways. On the point about medical centers, homelss shelter etc, the Catholic church is about the only one in that camp. Most large evangelical with the exception of a few are more concerned about building empires to themselves ie James Dobson, Copeland, Charles Stanley,Ed Young etc in the name of Jesus, than caring about the poor, which most of these guys think they deserve it anyway.
Every time I see Obama, and the more this Messianic fervor around him builds, I am constantly reminded of the words of the Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:
"2 Thessalonians 2:3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed...4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God...
9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."
Yeah, that pretty much sums up the new Messiah and his ardent worshipers in the anti-life party.
"... He is dragging biblical understanding through the gutter." James Dobson
One man cannot take the justification of a nations misunderstanding of the true relationship with Christ and God.
Thats like the pot calling the kettle black.
America's Christianity isn't Acts: 2
Neither is the church...
We are supposed to covet to prophesy...Exhort, Edify, and Comfort....to build up to help the glorifcation of God.
But people rebuke for EGO...thats not CHRIST...thats what John called the "Pride of Life." Put down someone else for your lifting up.
What about Large congregations? Jesus taught 12.
Whats the quality of 10,000..members who need to be sharpened by not just the word of Christ but seeing him in relationship.
A book, CD, Video...can't always do it. A father(Shepard) can't always teach his son from talking on the phone.
The bible also says: Dont speak down upon the authorities I have set before you. That includes presidents...So many would have fallen from Bush.
"Folks haven't been reading their Bibles," Is what Obama says,
and I agree...especially
Matthew 23.
chicago -
As ridiculous as you sound in your post, it would be wise for you rescind your public debate offer :) Our church's children Sunday school class would run circles around you.
How typical: Dobson chastises Obama by saying he was wrong for equating the holiness code laws in Leviticus with Jesus' sayings in the Gospels. Yet Dobson and his ilk continually drag out Lev 18:22 to condemn homosexuals.
Boy, I'd love to have a public debate with Dobson on the Bible.
"Folks haven't been reading their Bibles" talk about a self-indictment, he couldn't even remember what his former pastor used to preach on a given Sunday.
diana - provide us some references of your claim Bush calling Christ a liar.
seedplanter - Great post! I too am an Alan Keys supporter. Simplified analysis between Keys and Obama is: Obama - great orator; no substance. Keys - great orator; incredible substance.
Still have not heard James Dobson's "stinging" indictment of George Bush calling Christ a LIAR!!!, when he repeatedly said "we all worship the same gOD" and "their are many roads to gOd". Funny how Dobson and the legalistic crew will pervert the Gospel (and excuse blashpemy) as long as it fits their dominionism agenda. Can James Dobson say "Hypocrites R Us"???
There has only been one politician whose Biblical literacy actually impressed me, Alan Keyes.
Incidentally he was the only candidate whose sign I have ever hung in my front yard - he was running against Obama for US senate.
I had the opportunity to hear him in my home town where he addressed many issues, including the homosexual marriage issue. He had a very Biblically consistent hermeneutic that was quite persuasive.
I highly respect Dobson. We both have a similar heritage in the holiness movement for one thing. We believe in the Bible and the precepts it contains. I am deeply concerned about the direction America is headed, with respect to sanctity of life, freedom of speech, the demise of republican/democracy and the national sanctioning of sexual deviancy. The Democratic Party is now controlled by special interest groups of this ilk. It is sad that Bible believing Christians do not really have a choice if they choose to vote their conscience. Although McCain doesn’t exactly excite me, I am glad that liberal Romney isn’t in the equation, at least at this point.
I will be looking forward to listening to Dobson's broadcast on OnePlace.com.
Be thankful for the free press and the open access to the internet in our nation. Senator Obama's unedited verbatim comments about "faith" and his interpretations of biblical passages are available to anyone who can "google" them. His views of "faith" reveal his true faith, which sadly seem well to the left of biblical Christianity.
Whether a person, a church, or (in Obama's case) the government tries to take the place of Christ it is still antichrist.
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
As an outsider across the pond but keeping a close eye on the political climate of America at this time I would suggest that Dr Dobson critising Obama will actually gain him some more votes.
Steve
Mr Dobson what about passages in the bible that says
thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods
thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.
surely you cannot criticize bush for his 'unchristian' behavior.
Obama has not been reading his Bible for sure. Also it is clear that he has no idea of Biblical application in either the government or personal life. Government is established by God to keep peace, law and order and that is why the Bible says the state does not wield the sword in vain. Shame on Obama for trying to teach Bible when he doesn't have a clue what is in it or how to apply it.
Obama makes perfect sense. There are numerous denominations in America. Plus, people should - in a most bipartisan effort - frame their opinions around whats best and fair for all. Fruitcake interpretation? No.. just another annoyed evangelical who is trying to mix church and state.
JHS - Maybe that's true. Does it have anything to do with the actual article, though? The point appears to be that Obama is attempting to mislead evangelicals in the hope of promoting an ecumenicalism devoid of biblical discernment, and that he is doing so based on either an intentional distortion of scripture or on his own personal lack of understanding. He's "reaching out" to evangelicals by wrapping his liberal philosophies in some Bible words. And I'll bet many of us are eating it right up. The real problem here isn't even Obama and his feel-good, make-it-up-as-you-go theology. The real problem is the ignorance of the ones who would accept it simply because it's Obama who is saying it. Our biblical illiteracy as the Church in general is all that allows such a thing to happen at all. Dobson, for whatever foibles he may have, is correct this time. There is a sense of unquestioning near-worship with the followers of Obama that is incredibly unnerving.
Dobson is a controversial character and has perhaps at times said things that might have been better left unsaid. But let's not lose sight of the actual issue here. The issue is that we are probably about to elect another president whose theology appears to be so liberal that it seems to be based more on opinion than understanding of scripture. We're in for four more years of utterly misunderstanding the enemies who hate us based on their religion, speeches that end with an obligatory "God Bless America" when they really should end with a heart-felt "America Bless God", and all the other inanities that come from ignoring the truth in order to promote or accommodate special causes.
The bottom line is that there is nothing different about Barack Obama. He's a garden-variety politician who will say whatever he thinks will get him elected, and who changes his message like a chameleon changes his camouflage based on his perception of what his current audience wants to hear, even if it means utterly contradicting himself. It looks like people who can't see past a good speechwriter and a little public speaking talent, and are willing to ignore the growing evidence of a fundamental lack of understanding of scripture on his part as well as his incredibly poor judgement in the 20 years of membership in his former church, and what these portend for his leadership will may indeed get exactly the leader they deserve.
To my brothers and sisters in Christ: It is not God's will that we abdicate our role as salt and light in this evil time. I used to feel the same way, if no candidate was running that I was completely happy with. This is exactly what the enemy wants us to do!!! As long as we are here, we are to be a restraining force in regard to evil. We MUST vote!! 2nd Thessalonians speaks of a "great apostasy" that will occur prior to Jesus' return for us, but we are still to be salt and light. Obama represents this apostasy in it's fullest sense.
Besides the Left vs, Right debate, I cannot in good conscience vote for any candidate, no matter what color they are, someone who doesn't protect the unborn, and the institution of marriage (man and women). The economy and everything else means nothing. In God's economy, it is how we walk, which is the only one that matters.
Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, ' I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'
JHS,
"If you right wingers spent more time taking care of the poor and indigent,cleaning up the mess were in in Iraq, jobs being sent overseas and stop being so concerned about the 2% gay population, the whole country would be better off."
...? Being against homosexual marriage and/or abortion automatically makes one a "right winger"? Also since when did "right wingers" not care about the poor and choosing the best solution to Iraq? Last time I checked these were major issues on nearly every political parties mind, and especially Christians (even if they disagree on how to do it).
jhs-
I think you've lost perspective and you may be a bit on the ignorant side of things. You need to stop listening to the media's version of America.
The Church has put more towards the poor than any other institute established. Our church alone supports "soup kitchens", provides camps for youth - paying for those that can't afford it, and I can go on. The Catholic church puts forth millions every year towards hospitals, soup kitchen, and others. It wasn't until the last 30 years that our morals in our country has forced the church to fight abortion and homosexual "rights". How does this relate? An example is that one Catholic adoption agency had to close down because the government was going to force the agency to allow homosexuals to adopt which is totally against the Catholics beliefs. So now, this adoption agency, that used to help thousands of unwanted babies be placed in loving homes, is closed down. Shame on the politicians and the people who voted them in.
"... or Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, "a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application."
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the gentile, for they shall inherit the Earth.
Blessed are those who hunber and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisifed.
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theris is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and fasely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way the persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Does he mean these passages, or the other ones that talk about turning the other cheek, and going two miles when only required to go one?
---------
Beloved, Jesus sent The Helper to assist us in walking with Jesus. The Helper was also sent to confirm what Jesus taught as well. Therefore, if any man denies what the Bible says as truth, and instead calls it "radical teaching", than the Helper is not in them, and therefore neither is Jesus. This is a wolf in sheep's clothing. He truly has his reward already.
rolln4him :
If you right wingers spent more time taking care of the poor and indigent,cleaning up the mess were in in Iraq, jobs being sent overseas and stop being so concerned about the 2% gay population, the whole country would be better off.
jhs -
Sorry to hear that you feel disenfranchised. I don't know of one Christian that votes based on "one issue". Most that I know vote as a package deal and generally on social issues like homosexuality and abortion.
This is no surprise. I have no further comment but to say again...this is NO SURPRISE!
rolln4him :
I am a Christian, I just do not vote single issue like most of you right wingers
Additionally, Obama (along with several democrats who claim to be Christians) never supports issues that are important to the Church (i.e. homosexuality is sin, abortion as an atrocity, etc.). The vast number of churches (not just the rich ones as you claim) are against what Obama stands for. That's why he's a wolf in sheeps clothing. James Dobson is always stood up for what was right and represents much of what the church has stood for -
JHS -
You didn't say why you switched specifically. You're obviously not a Christian yourself - right? The country is becoming more polarized than ever - this I see. I think we're discussing two different issue here though. Presidency and religion. Bush has always said he was a believer in Christ and has all his life attended church. I don't see the wolf here at all. Obama, on the otherhand, has attended a Muslim school (documented) and his half brother says that he was an espousing Muslim years ago. Ummm, who do we beleive - that's why I sense that Obama is a wolf in sheeps clothing.
reply to rolln4him: as far a wolves in sheeps clothing, you have that in the White House right now. As far as Obama he is a christian, but not of the right bible hater types. I voted for Bush and I have since become a democrat, because frankly after what the republicans have done to the country, I may never vote for a republican again. I have noticed that most republican of the country club typed disdain evangelicals and the religious right, with them it's money and he rest are simply pawns to push their agenda, the problems for the republicans is that a big part of their base is going democrat in November, and they have no one to blame but themselves.
Truthfully, Obama hasn't shown the Christian community anything substantial that he's a born-again Christian as he has stated. His 20 years + at his church has blown up in his face since his "pastor" thinks America is still the KKK and his pastor says "god damn America". At least Obama has distanced himself - AFTER SUBSTANTIAL MEDIA PRESSURE.
Also notice JHS's judgment of others. "like most republicans it's about money, not the bible" Wow! Love the liberal hypocrisy. Notice the hatred? Wow, there's a lot of hate there.
JHS - let it out. It's OK - we'll be here for you.
mike -
I admit to being discriminate and intolerant - of sin. Everyone is discriminate and everyone is intolerant to some degree. The liberal community has used the terms flippantly in a way that demeans others which in and of itself is intolerant, thus they're the biggest hypocrites around
Aside from JHS and the his/her leftist's attacks, Dobson has been a tremendous help to the families of America. He points out people like Obama, who are really simply wolves in sheep's clothing, prostrating themselves as change for America. If he actually is nominated to be our next President, I bet he'll ask to be sworn in using the Koran rather than the Bible - or use both for that matter. Bets anyone?
As have you Christians...both sides are guilty of pointing fingers and distorting facts at times, correct?
jhs -
It's great to have you join our Christian site. It's not very tolerant of you to speak that way, but hey you liberals have always been hypocritical. You tell others to be tolerant, yet you rant and demean others and their faith.
Dobson has been brainwashing the right wingers in this country for years, now all of a sudden Obama is distorting the bible, what a joke, Dobson is a right wing Bush republican, he trying to protect his millions he has made in his mega ministry, and like most rich republicans it's about money, not the bible!