After the California Supreme Court’s infamous ruling that approved gay “marriage” two months ago, pro-family advocates talked endlessly for the need to strengthen the institution of marriage at the national level with a federal amendment.
Last week, pro-family groups finally saw their prayers answered when Republican Sen. Roger Wicker of Mississippi re-introduced the Federal Marriage Act in the Senate for the first time since it stalled in the House nearly two years ago.
The measure, which reads, “Marriage in the United States shall consist only of the union of a man and a woman,” would effectively outlaw gay “marriage” if it reaches a two-thirds majority approval in Congress.
Wicker said that the bill was urgent and necessary given that the recent California court ruling could potentially force gay “marriage” on states.
“Invariably, couples from that state will now move to states like Mississippi, or the other states that have prohibitions on same-sex marriage,” he said in a statement. “And they will ask that those 'marriages' be recognized.”
Pro-family groups said they were upbeat about the bill, while emphasizing its importance in protecting families.
“Children are best served by having both a mother and a father,” said Tom McClusky, vice president for government affairs at the Family Research Council, in a statement.
“To deprive a child of [that] is something that no government should be trying to push,” he added.
The amendment, which was first introduced to Congress in 2002, stalled in the legislature after it failed to receive a two-thirds majority vote.
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This article is pretty funny. Especially the quote by Tom McClusky. First of all, how are heterosexual marriages going to be affected because of a law that allows gay marriages to be valid? Are heterosexual couples all of a sudden going to think, "hey we can be gay, let's be gay, YAY." That is just dumb. Secondly, how is a child best served by a father and a mother? Unless of course, Tom is implying that a father contributes differently to the growth of a child than a mother. Which, again, does not make sense because the only main difference between a man and a woman is their genitalia. So, unless there's something special a child will learn from his father's balls or his mother's ovaries, I don't see how a child raised under a same sex family will be different from a child raised "the normal way."
The very frequent use of the term, "gay", as a synonym for homosexuality, shows how strongly this site has bought into the homosexual agenda.
Amen, Ivan,
God didn't promise that He would remove all obstacles and temptations from our lives. Even Jesus was tempted, just as we are. But God did say that He would give us the power to resist and remain faithful and true.
That is why I make the comment that those who call themselves Christians, and yet continue in their homosexual lifestyles, are lazy christians. They are too lazy to resist.
mathetes - why thank you! (I have DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, the original and some of the redone originals which have new special effects on the screen and space shots. Yep, I have a Dish. Why? Because I'm so far out in the country I can't really get most of the local channels!)
Also, it's corn on the cob season. For thos who grill the corn...pull the shucks back, remove the silk, reshuck and soak in water for at least 30 min to an hour. When you grill in wet shucks the corn steams in the husk. You can also put butter (try flavored with garlic or herbs).
I'll try to find one for rhubarb pie for lina if she wants. :-)
Daniel,
Your steaks sound great! If you were closer, I'd accept your invitation and bring the whole DS9 series and a wonderful strawberry dessert.
wb and lina;
I'm sorry for the name calling. YOu know, it just not everyday we get to pick on a prozac ridden Satanist. I'll try to refrain.
Lina - I let wb fling you around a bit, but I have my saber drawn you little pesky demon, you. One false move and ...
"You know, most of the posts on this site are really disturbing. I think Jesus would view them as, not coming from Christians, but from a bunch of angry, fearful, disaffected heterosexual supremacists.
Keep spewing poison and quoting the Bible if you like. I may encounter this nonsense for a few moments during my day, but I'd hate to think what it must be like to live in your heads 24/7."
Wow! What a stab. Ouch...I'm melting, I'm melting!!!!
There are some Christians that post here that need to be shepherded, but for the most part we try to play fair.
No as th what's in my head 24/7...I love to play with my children, voluteer in the community, help our around the church and work with those in need. I spend a fair amount of time learning more about 34 CFR 100's and the laws protected by it such as IDEA to help special needs children. I like to compose, garden, play with the children and I work on cars for friends. There is even time when I am thinking about much of nothing watching StarTrek, Doctor Who and Gardening by the Yard. There is even time to consider the types of sustainable energy and develop new recipies and preparing old ones (imported blue cheese stuffed ribeye anyone?).
Why, my mind is full of things 24/7 which have nothing to do with the fun we Christians have at this site entertaining the questions of folks like you! :-)
Hi Lina. Thanks I appreciate it. I do wish people would be civil. Its ok to disagree and discuss differences. I just wish people could do it civilly.
lina,
Pick up the book "Evidence That Demands A Verdict 2" by Josh McDowell.
It's the right thing to do.
WB - you're a good guy. I'm only treating Rolln4him as he treats others. deal? But seriously, do me a favor. Buy the following book: God is not Great by Christopher Hitchens if anything because it so interesting. Pick it apart - determine what is wrong. And let's chat about it.
rolln4him
Please stop calling people names.
chicago-
You haven't seen noth'n yet; you Christian bashing heretic. When you cast out demons, it's never pretty. Now scram!
You know, most of the posts on this site are really disturbing. I think Jesus would view them as, not coming from Christians, but from a bunch of angry, fearful, disaffected heterosexual supremacists.
Keep spewing poison and quoting the Bible if you like. I may encounter this nonsense for a few moments during my day, but I'd hate to think what it must be like to live in your heads 24/7.
feet,
I say to you toread 1cor 6:9-10 weee it clearly states that homosexuals will not inheret the kingdom of God unless 1 cor 6:11 they trust In Christ repent, and change. It is in the Bible homosexuality is a sin, Sodom and Gomorrah were punished for this. Second the Bible clearly state marriage is of man and women, and sex is to be only between married people.
Extract from: Part Two: “Discourse on Gay and Lesbian Marriages”, by Ivan Erickson, author of the spiritual novel, “Song of the Storm Winds”, available via direct links to amazon.com on my website, http://www.ivan-erickson.com - Other discourses are also available for viewing and comments on my site.
Please be aware that I love all people of all faiths and ethnicities whom God loves, and it is for this reason that I toil continuously to bring His Truth and Light to all who have ears to hear with and eyes to see with:
“The “approval” of the sinfulness of man is also being displayed in a brazen manner in other areas of modern life. Teachers in the classrooms and other misdirected poor souls, such as some TV celebrities and hosts, go out of their way to teach and demonstrate to children and others that homosexuality is “acceptable” to God and man, or worse, that it is not sinful. Some churches and their hierarchy and clergy preach in front of God and man that homosexuality is permissible – that it is not a sin. Judges and other lawmakers are enacting laws that allow gays or lesbians to live together as a man and wife do; to have the same tax advantages and other benefits as married couples do; to allow them to “wed” one another; and to allow them to adopt children, or to act as surrogate mothers, in some cases. Do you not yet realize, all of you who are sinning in these manners, that you must not enact laws, condone, or be a party to sinfulness? Man must not attempt to supersede or countermand the Commandments, mandates, laws, decrees or jurisdiction of God, you must understand! Should you attempt to bless in “marriage” that which God abhors? And you are doing this by the acts that many of you are committing, that allow either yourselves or others to sin – whether it be in matters of homosexuality, pedophilia, child abuse, lowering the age that children are “legally” allowed to commit sexual acts out of wedlock, “legalizing” divorce, as well as in other areas of modern life in which man is brazenly telling God that our laws take precedence over His! The fate of those of you who commit these acts, or allow or enact laws whereby others may commit these acts, will be more lamentable than the hapless ant that sits atop its anthill with tiny “fist” upraised, in defiance to the approaching bulldozer”!
A rebuke is made after a judgment is made that a sin has occurred.
"so.. so sad. there are innocent people who are suffering on the streets of this country because they just lost their home, which they were told they were qualified for."
Yep...it started under Clinton. Then it carried on under the 'growing economy' credited by the Dems to Clinton. We reap what we sow. People are getting kicked out of their homes because someone lied to them and/or they are living beyond their means.
so.. so sad. there are innocent people who are suffering on the streets of this country because they just lost their home, which they were told they were qualified for. there are people addicted to drugs and alcohol who have absolutely no one. there is an unjust war that is killing not only people, but our morale. women are being raped, and children are starving. and yet conservatives want to dance on this issue. shame on you people. stop attacking others' happiness and go find yourselves.
the reason for the display of definitions was to show the distinct difference between judging and rebuking.
Bush already tried this scam in 2004. I guess evangelicals want to continue to be bought and sold.
http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/07/04/craig-and-vitter-defend-marriage/
If it was something Christ said to do, or something Paul said to do, then I will certainly do it. And guess what, Christ said to rebuke, and Paul said to expel the wicked from among you.
Luke 17:3 So watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.
1 Corinthians 5:9-13
9 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you.
By not only suggesting homosexuality is not a sin, but encouraging others to do it, you are putting yourself in the position of God, denying the truth of God (Romans 1:18-32).
You should repent and turn to God and live like it (Acts 25:20).
But if you DO repent (change), you need to not continue to live a life of sin. Otherwise, you are condemned, because you do not know God.
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
And so if you continue to deny Christ, you condemn yourself (John 3:16-18).
"rebuke............to blame or scold in a sharp way ; to reprimand.
judge.........................to pass judgement
.judgement...........decision, order, decree,sentence given by a judge,criticism, censure, making a decision as to value
censure................a judgement or resolution condemning a person for misconduct.
condemning...............to declare unfit, to inflict a penalty upon.
----------------------
Big Foot (sorry, I just couldn't resist...)-
You don't seem to be reading the posts of the other people. We are not going to agree with patchwork interpretations of the Bible. The Bible is clear. The judgements have already been made. The gospel has been stated. Repent and sin no more. The Bible lists and defines sin. Don't mistake lust for love.
feet wrote:
"(4)the bonding of homosexuals is equally as self affirming as heterosexual bonding. again you will recognize them by their fruit."
Ae you speaking of the self-affirming found through disregarding the word of God? The self-affirming found through diseases transmitted through immoral sexual practices?
Any affirming should come from GOD, not from yourself. This is another reason why Romans 1 applies to homosexuality - it is about self over God.
"(5) the bonding of heterosexuals and the bonding homosexuals in essence produces the fruit of the spirit equally. again you will recognize them by their fruit"
LOL! The bonding of a man and woman in holy matrimony is nothing like the sin of unrepentant homosexuals. The homosexual will suffer the second death, if he/she does not repent.
Revelation 21:8
" But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
"(6) no where does scripture say that homosexuality is a sin. not from lev where not all prohibitions are of themselves sins, to the gang rape of gen, to the shamebased lust of romans.......shame engendering self hatred and self loathing, lust being the antithesis of bonding, the only commitment of lust is to all things that fill the wanton hole of lust, to the "malebed" of 1tim and 1cor which also is abhorent behavior that has nothing to do with human bonding. the uniting of 2 souls in a one flesh relationship, motivated by mutual love, respect, trust, devotion, and attraction for a committed shared life together."
You are wrong. Jesus said to not be sexually immoral (Matthew 15:18-20; Mark 7:20-23, Revelation 21:5-8). The definition of sexual immorality is based upon the Scriptures at that time – the Old Testament (Lev 18:22; Lev 20:13), where it does not speak of lust, it speaks of men lying with men as with a woman. That is not describing rape, nor lust. It describes a sex act between a man and a man as being destestable.
Then Romans 1 describes the WRATH OF GOD coming on those who suppress the truth with their wickedness.
“24 Therefore God gave them over in the SINFUL DESIRES of their hearts to SEXUAL IMPURITY FOR THE DEGRADING OF THEIR BODIES with one another.” As you look at the rest of the passage, God called it shameful desire, unnatural, indecent, perversion, depraved.
It is not just lust, nor just the act, but simple desire for someone of the same gender is a sin.
Feet wrote:
"i will tell you besides myself... everyone that supports homosexuality, that i personally know, does not believe that homosexuality is a sin."
then they are mistaken and heretics.
"(1)because it does not come against loving ones neighbor as oneself the summation of all the law, of these 2 commandments no commandments are greater."
Living in sin shows a lack of love for God, the most important summary of the Law and the prophets - Christ described it as the most important Law. And sin that involves another is the opposite of showing love for that person. Love will not lead us to do or act or teach something that is contrary to what God has said.
"(2) homosexuals bond in the same spirit as heterosexuals you will recognize them by their fruit."
The fruit of not being able to have children together? The fruit of active sin? The fruit of diseases found among the sexually immoral?
No, the homosexual bond is a distortion of the bond that occurs between a husband and wife. To say they are the same is to distort Scripture written by Paul, which is exactly what Peter said.
2 Peter 3:15-17
15and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by )the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,
"(3) homosexuals have never been found wanting in any sector of society compared to heterosexuals."
um... you mean all the ones who have died of diseases of the immoral are not found wanting? Or do you mean the homosexual men who can not give birth? Or do you mean the women who require either artificial or heterosexual insemination to get pregnant?
"they are not less a father, attorney, friend, administrator, neighbor, counselor, brother, teacher, etc"
They are certainly not holy or saved - at least according to the word of God. They are damned to the second death according to Revelation 21:5-8.
"the same cannot be said of those given over to the sin nature gal 5 compared that are not."
What about those given over to the sin nature of homosexuality as described in Romans 1?
But those who have repented of their sin and trust Christ and obey (the evidence of faith), have eternal life.
rebuke............to blame or scold in a sharp way ; to reprimand.
judge.........................to pass judgement
.judgement...........decision, order, decree,sentence given by a judge,criticism, censure, making a decision as to value
censure................a judgement or resolution condemning a person for misconduct.
condemning...............to declare unfit, to inflict a penalty upon.
Luke 6:37
[ Judging Others ] "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven
feet,
You said "i didnt know you've had so mmuch fellowship with gay believers." I never have, because there is no such thing. If they were believers then they would know they were sinnning, if they are gay then they don't believe the Word of God. It's acutally quites simple.
Ther may be gay religious people, but they are not believers or Christians. I hope that answers your question.
the plank vs speck has to do with how close something is to you. The closer it is, the bigger it appears. The farther it is from you, the smaller it appears. The idea is to take care of your problem in a given area before speaking with someone else about their problem in that area.
What part of what Christ said in Luke 17:3 do you not get?
Jesus said to call sinners on their behavior:
Luke 17:3 So watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.
So, I rebuke you. Now, its your turn to repent!
Feet,
People who try to lead believers astray into acting the way they want, or the way the world says is good are what the apostle John warned against in 1 John 3:4-10
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
Notice what it calls people who keep living a life of sin - they are not called children of God, but children of the devil.
without any spirit context...........we are led by and serve of the spirit, that response ignores jesus"s declaration we will know them by their fruit(fruit of the spirit), the commandment of loving ones neighbor as oneself, and paul's statement in gal5 that he things of the sin nature are obvious, that by their very nature are self evident on how they come against the fruit of the spirit.
my understanding is that the metaphor "plank" is not describing one's concern about anothers sin. but instead is about the essence of sin. which is so huge in the eye of the one because he is judging, that in comparison makes the sin of the other almost nothing.
what is there not to understand about"DO NOT JUDGE"
as I've written before,
Matthew 15:18-20
18 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean.’ 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what make a man ‘unclean’; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him ‘unclean.’ “
Mark 7:20-23
20 He went on: “What comes out of a man is what makes him ‘unclean.’ 21 For from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man ‘unclean.’ “
Now, sexual immorality would refer to what God had defined as wrong already by the time of when Christ said this – this would come from the Old Testament. As Christians today, we use both the Old and New Testaments to see Who God is, what God has done, how God feels about issues in life, and what He expects of and for us.
The word translated as sexual immorality is ‘Porneia’. This word means
1. illicit sexual intercourse
A. adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
B. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
C. sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11
In particular, when looking at what God said about sexual immorality, we are taking into account the following (I have added the verses from the Gospels, as well as those from the New Testament Epistles, the latter of course were written after Christ spoke, but are helpful for Christians today):
Sexual immorality in general: Matthew 15:18-20; Mark 7:20-23; 1 Thes 4:3-8; Rev 21:5-8
Wearing clothing of the opposite gender: Deuteronomy 22:5
sex with animals: Ex 22:19; Lev18:23, 20:15-16
sex with people of the same gender: Lev 18:22; Lev 20:13; Rom 1:26-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10
adultery: Gen 20:1-7; Deut 5:18; Heb 13:4
fornication: 1 Corinthians 6:18; 1 Corinthians 7:2
incest: Lev 18:6-15; 20; Deut 27:20-23; 1 Cor 5:1-13
The problem is not just rape. Romans 1 says even the desire of a man for a man or a woman for a woman is sin. The act of sex between two people of the same gender is also sin.
The term translated in Romans 1 as 'lust' is epiqumia in Greek. It means desire, craving, longing, desire for what is forbidden, lust.
It is even the mere desire for same gender sex that is wrong in God's eyes.
It does not matter how you feel about it. It does not matter how you justify it. God said if you do not change and turn to God, then you are not saved. If you claim you have repented and turned to God, then you need to live like it.
i will tell you besides myself...............everyone that supports homosexuality, that i personally know, does not believe that homosexuality is a sin.
(1)because it does not come against loving ones neighbor as oneself
the summation of all the law, of these 2commandments no commandments are greater.
(2) homosexuals bond in the same spirit as heterosexuals
you will recognize them by their fruit.
(3) homosexuals have never been found wanting in any sector of society compared to heterosexuals.
they are not less a father, attorney, friend, administrator, neighbor, counselor, brother, teacher, etc
the same cannot be said of those given over to the sin nature gal 5 compared that are not.
(4)the bonding of homosexuals is equally as self affirming as heterosexual bonding.
again you will recognize them by their fruit.
(5) the bonding of heterosexuals and the bonding homosexuals in essence produces the fruit of the spirit equally.
again you will recognize them by their fruit
(6) no where does scripture say that homosexuality is a sin.
not from lev where not all prohibitions are of themselves sins, to the gang rape of gen, to the shamebased lust of romans.......shame engendering self hatred and self loathing, lust being the antithesis of bonding, the only commitment of lust is to all things that fill the wanton hole of lust, to the "malebed" of 1tim and 1cor which also is abhorent behavior that has nothing to do with human bonding. the uniting of 2 souls in a one flesh relationship, motivated by mutual love, respect, trust, devotion, and attraction for a committed shared life together.
feet, the question is not whether you are aware of all sin in your life. The question is, once oyu know that something you do is a sin, do you repent?
Now, there is no doubt that homosexuality is a sin. So do you repent and obey God?
feet, you wrote "surely you understand the huge difference between a plank and a speck. and that it is ones judgement that is responsible for the difference of size. it is your judgement that creates the plank in comparison to the speck in ones brothers eye."
The difference is that one is closer to you than the other. Ie. the thing you are doing that you are correcting someone else for is a bigger deal to you than what the other person is doing. You should take care of what is closest to you (the plank) before you handle what is farther away (the speck in your brother's eye).
feet,
You said "i didnt know you've had so mmuch fellowship with gay believers." I never have, because there is no such thing. If they were believers then they would know they were sinnning, if they are gay then they don't believe the Word of God. It's acutally quites simple.
Ther may be gay religious people, but they are not believers or Christians. I hope that answers your question.
i would amend your concept of not continuing to sin for those whom the holy spirit convicts their hearts of sin and then gives thru grace the power to turn from sin.
otherwise according to your understanding, in the last 2000 years there were no believers, because of the presence of perpetual sin...........from 2000 years of antisemitism, that culminated in the halocaust, in spite of romans 10 and 11, the genicidal slaughters over differences of belief, such as french protestants and catholics slaughtering each other over a creed, 1800 years of ethnic slavery supported by the church, 1500 years of the practice of indulgences, 1800 years of the slaughter of the saints by the church,100 years of the unfettered racism(specifically in the south, blacks could not eyeball whites, and any white person regsrdless of age could tell a black person to something and if they didnt comply there was a knock on their door that night to be dealt with as severly as to be not be seen again.
at the turn of the century if you lived in the south, in order to be a successful businessman or to be politically viable, membership was required in the klu klux klan.
and this us just the tip of the iceberg of all the travesties throughout history, all done by believers.
in my opinion it is the fool who credits himself with totally being aware of all the sin in his life, tothe point that all that has to be done is to show him and he responds with automatic repentance.
surely you are aware that the majority of sacrifices of leviticus are for unknown sin.
i have seen nothing that would indicate that believers today were any more aware their sin than the isrealites of the past.
wasnt that the reason for the cross. that man could not follow the law in regards to sin, could not not be depended on to repent..........turn from his sin. isnt grace about inspite of sin that we are unable to control, we rely on what christ did on the cross, not the believer trusting in what he can do regarding sin.
if paul in romans 7 admits of this being in his own life...............are believers to credit themselves with more?
that concepts of repeated sinning, and repentance required for salvation have nothing to do with the gospel.
Feet, you wrote "anyone who withholds fellowship over an issue of sin, is judging and condemning."
Who ever does NOT rebuke a sinner is not being obedient to God.
Jesus said to call sinners on their behavior:
Luke 17:3 So watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.
Paul said to expel the wicked from among you.
1 Cor 5:12-13
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you.
Even the Apostle John, who focused so much on love, said to not have fellowship with people who denied Christ.
2 John 1:9-11
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. 11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
feetxxx-
Now that we understand that you would even go so far as to say pedophilia is OK according to you post located at : http://christianpost.com/article/20080627/mccain-endorses-calif-initiative-to-protect-marriage.htm
Then we can assume that your basic belief with this "love" commandment is that as long as those involved "love thy neighbor" than it's OK? Right? So you neighbor's wife is not off limits, the little girl next door is not off limits to having sex with as long as the two of you are in love...?
that returns us to three commandments of love...........those are his commands. if faithfulness without love is nothing, then obedience without the same would be no different.
remember "there is no commandment greater than these."
feetxxxl, if I am the passenger in a car and the driver is traveling at a high rate of speed and is approaching a dangerous curve in the road and if he does not slow down there is a high probability we will crash. Would I be judging/condemning him as a driver or person if I warned him about the dangerous curve and encouraged him to slow down?
You are still missing the context.
Let us read Romans 2 in context (we have already seen where Romans 1 condemns putting your thoughts ahead of God's, as well as homosexual desire and sex). Rom 2:1-10
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
God will condemn those pass judgement on something and do the thing they pass judgement upon. That is called hypocrisy. God said to not do it, but even more, He said to not do bad things. God loves you. He wants you to repent. That's the whole point of the passage - do not do bad things. Its not the calling of someone on their sin that is the problem. It is not taking care of the problem in your own life before you do so. You have to repent.
feetxxxl,
You said, "anyone who withholds fellowship over an issue of sin, is judging and condemning." Did Paul not do it and command the church at Corinth to do it?
1 Cor 5:3-5, 11
3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he should be an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one.
You also said:
"if we walk in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship with one another." that is a proactive statement and is independent of whatever sin is being judged about the person.
If a person is engaging in a sin continually, then he is not walking in fellowship with God or with His people.
I Jn 1:5-6
5 And this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and {yet} walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
I Jn 2:4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
I Jn 3:10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
surely you understand the huge difference between a plank and a speck.
and that it is ones judgement that is responsible for the difference of size.
it is your judgement that creates the plank in comparison to the speck in ones brothers eye.
anyone who withholds fellowship over an issue of sin, is judging and condemning.
"if we walk in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship with one another."
that is a proactive statement and is independent of whatever sin is being judged about the person.
in fact it would seem that those in sin would need fellowship in the spirit of christ more, a fellowship of the light to contrast their walk in darkness, a fellowship in christ touches the christ within, that thru which they are made.
1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance
are we to offer any less?
Luke 12:49-59
49 "I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law." 54He said to the crowd: "When you see a cloud rising in the west, immediately you say, 'It's going to rain,' and it does. 55 And when the south wind blows, you say, 'It's going to be hot,' and it is. 56 Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don't know how to interpret this present time? 57 "Why don't you judge for yourselves what is right? 58 As you are going with your adversary to the magistrate, try hard to be reconciled to him on the way, or he may drag you off to the judge, and the judge turn you over to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. 59 I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny."
Christ said to discern what is right - to JUDGE what is right. In context, He was saying HE was sent to bring fire to earth, and his listeners had to decide for themselves. They had to JUDGE whether He was telling the truth or not.
I noticed you conveniently ignored what else CHRIST said,
Jesus said to call sinners on their behavior and forgive them if they change:
1 Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. 2 It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. 3 So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. 4 If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."
Paul said to not be a hypocrite:
Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
But we are to discern what is right and wrong and avoid wrong.
Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
You are also ignored what I said about looking at the right/wrong on people's action versus judging the individuals. The latter is God's job. The former is a Christian;s. To say it is not is to show ignorance of scripture and a bias towards sinful behavior.
Again, feet, you are confused and distorting and ignoring scripture.
Mat 7:1-5
1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Now lets look at the other verse in context that you quoted out of context.
Luke 6:37-42
37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 39He also told them this parable: "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher. 41 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Christ said point blank, take the plank out of your eye to deal with the speck in your brother's eye. The idea is deal with a problem in your life before dealing with it in another's life. DO NOT BE A HYPOCRITE. That's the idea.
feetxxxl--I agree in principle. Here's the problem. The Bible says to speak the truth in love. When people stop speaking the truth because they don't want to 'judge' then they disobey the gospel.
I do not judge people. I think my posts speak for themselves on that. I DO speak what I find to be Biblical truth that applies to a given situation. Jesus accepted the sinner. In fact, He hung out with them. Still, He spoke against the sin.
It's a 'don't throw the baby out with the bath water' thing.... It's just as wrong to not speak the truth in love as it is to judge. So, how do we know the difference? Simple, the Bible also says things like except for the grace of God it would be you who was being 'corrected'. People who are wrong are no better or worse than I am. I have found each of us is just as messed up as the next guy without the rock of Jesus to anchor ourselves on.
feetxxxl, although I don't believe that every person who is caught up in the sexual practices of homosexuality is automatically destined for hell that does not change the fact that it is still a sin and a sinful lifestyle. And as a result keeps those who continue in it from having a relationship with God that is both growing and intimate and this is true of any believer who is continuing to willfully live in sin and/or a sinful lifestyle.
out of 24 uses of the word " judge" in the gospel jesus's teaching is the reverse to what you have said.
Matthew 7:1
[ Judging Others ] "Do not judge, or you too will be judged
Luke 6:37
[ Judging Others ] "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
feet,
You said "i didnt know you've had so mmuch fellowship with gay believers." I never have, because there is no such thing. If they were believers then they would know they were sinnning, if they are gay then they don't believe the Word of God. It's acutally quites simple.
Ther may be gay religious people, but they are not believers or Christians. I hope that answers your question.
the whole scripture you used encouraging judging is really about interpreting the times
luke: 54He said to the crowd: "When you see a cloud rising in the west, immediately you say, 'It's going to rain,' and it does. 55And when the south wind blows, you say, 'It's going to be hot,' and it is. 56Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don't know how to interpret this present time?
12:56Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don't know how to interpret this present time?
57"Why don't you judge for yourselves what is right? 58As you are going with your adversary to the magistrate, try hard to be reconciled to him on the way, or he may drag you off to the judge, and the judge turn you over to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison.
this passing judgement thru god's word is not supported by scripture. more over it disenfranchises christ whom god has put all things under and now, therefore does everything thru the son. why would you not want to use the power of his name?
John 5:21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
John 12: 47"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. 49For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.
daniel & prophet, I agree with you both 100%, but it all goes back to their view of the Bible. They either reject it entirely, say that it becomes the Word of God, or that it contains the Word of God, but never that it is the Word of God. As long as they keep up this charade they give themselves permission to say well that might be the way you interpret the Bible but I don't interpret it that way so I'm free to continue do whatever regardless of what you say the Bible says.
daniel,
I've said that a million times. It just goes in one ear and out the other. They don't even acknowelge it. They just pass it off, so that they don't have to be accountable.
When someone states the judgement of a court they are not being judgemental. They are stating the judgement. The same is true when we say homosexuality is wrong and is sin. God said it is wrong. God is the judge. We are just repeating His verdict on the matter.
Article: "Children are best served by having both a mother and a father," said Tom McClusky..." [End quote]
"My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother: For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck" (Pr 1:8, 9).
Two mommies or two daddies are biblically and truthfully unbalanced.
Another battle that we can press on with is boycotting McDonalds. Go to http://www.boycottmcdonalds.com/ and find out why.
wbmoore,
Again, thank you for your wisdom. Amen to your post.
You know, I tired of people who are doing what God says not to do calling people hateful or pious or judgemental, just because they recognize their sin as sin.
Jesus did not say to not judge, he said to not be a hypocrite. If you have a problem in a given area, clean up your own act before calling others on theirs (Matthew 7:1-5).
Jesus Himself said we are to judge what is right or wrong.
Luke 12:57 Why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right?
In fact, Jesus said to call sinners on their behavior:
Luke 17:3 So watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.
Paul said to not be a hypocrite:
Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
But we are to discern what is right and wrong and avoid wrong.
Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
So Christians should judge their own actions first and deal with sin in their own lives. But we are to judge the sins of those inside the church. Even so, this does not mean we are to judge someone as being better or worse than ourselves. If someone outside the church does bad things I still have the responsibility to judge whether that thing is good or bad. Whether someone does something good or bad does not necessarily indicate a person is good or bad. Judging something to be a sin is a good thing. Judging someone is not. There is a distinct difference that people who are doing things that others call wrong do not make.
Leviticus 18:22-26 states:
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
23 Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion. 24 ‘Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the
nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you. 25 For the land is defiled; therefore I visit the punishment of its iniquity upon it, and the land
vomits out its inhabitants. 26 You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations, either any of your own nation or any stranger who dwells among you
In the bible, God actually puts homosexuality right next to bestiality in context of the type of sin.
In the 1960's, when our soldiers were in Vietnam, there was a radical anti-war movement in our country that reached millions of people.
As I watch California's Government (Justice Ronald George
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/justices/george.htm Justice Joyce Kennard http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/justices/kennard.htm Justice Kathryn Werdegar
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/justices/werdegar.htm Justice Carlos Moreno
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/justices/moreno.htm)violate God's Law, I see a church with no voice, action, or movement.
I'm ready to meet as many brothers and sisters as possible at the address below, so we can spread the Good News of Christ to all of those who enter and exit, as well as preaching the same Gospel inside of the building with every attempt for peace, and not to cause any disorder.
Supreme Court of California
350 McAllister Street
San Francisco, CA 94102-4797
It's my hearts desire for a million or more to move on this place for a day or two, along
with some major christian music artists, and have a huge "sit in" for God.
cindy444, you told rolln4him you never believed the sexual practices of homosexuality were a sin and you claim that you are a Christian who studies the Bible. I have asked a question time and time again of those who believe as you do and yet I get no real answer so may I ask you. If the sexual practices of homosexuality and even the homosexual lifestyle are normal and permitted why is there not one positive reference to homosexuality in the Bible. The Bible speaks to the marriage of one man and one woman, it speaks to the heterosexual family, it speaks to singleness, and it even speaks to being a widow. But when it comes to saying anything positive about homosexuality the Bible is totally silent. But perhaps you know of some passage of Scripture that either endorses, condones, or promotes homosexuality, if so would you share them with me and if not can you tell me why they are not there, thanks.
lol. he doesn't. he just gives me a gentle reminder when i start going a little too far.
Yeah, believer is an awesome person! i love hearing what he has to say. God's love to you too man. his blessings to precede you in all you do.
jester -
I love you, man - agape way of course! LOL. Don't let prophet wussify you too much:)
I consider "believer" to be my cyber mentor . I usually look around for his posts because he handles others with such elegance of love and rebuke. I haven't a clue who he is, but he gives me some great laughs peppered with gentle rebuke and correction.
Sadly, I'm going to be limited to my posts for a long period of time as I'm going into a project that will tie me down, but it been such pleasure joining you in the fight - I'll still be able to check in on occasion, but not nearly as much has I've been doing. Keep those demon rascals at bay for me would you.
Oh, yea - you still type like a girl!!!!
I don't know. you'd have to take that up with him. lol.
Holy roll'n batman! Is he taking clients??? LOL
proph and i go way back. we live in the same state, but we havent met. he's a good guy. i used to be waaaaaay out of control, but thanks to his counsel via email i've learned to tone it down to a respectable level. lol.
maybe its time for some guerilla tactics with those little creeps. stealth...hit them before they know what's happening.
I agree - Prophet is outstanding and says it like it is. God bless you guys - you're an encouragement to me.
I don't know why, but I see the little demons (demons of sexual orientation) running for cover and throwing everything he got at us Christians. Gotta watch out for the pesky demons though, they always have some trick up their sleeve when their running and know they have "special ops" Christians like us casting them out.
Praise God for ministries such as EXODUS and many others like them that are working those front lines to deliver those precious souls from their chains. Alleluia!
i have to agree with proph. why do homosexuals try to drag Jesus down to their level instead of pulling themselves up to His?
jester -
All that name call'n is simply a trash talk Satan throws at us believers to prevent the true love of Christ to enter the lives of these folks. Sad, but enough talk - denominations and congregation all over are succumbing to this lie of "sexual orientation" and this demonic plaque has got to stop!
Thanks brother for the back-up!
WE PULLED THE PLUG ON DA BUTTON!!
WE RIPPED IT OUT!
and replaced it with a cute little flashing light....
jjdiogenes -
If you think you can keep using the "hate button" on everyone that disagrees with you and your heathen friends, you're wrong. Button don't work anymore; we're sick and tired of your bullying and you're going to see the backlash swinging around.
You need to repent and be baptized!
jjdiogenes -
I'll give you your first lesson: God hates ........ sin! Homosexuality is sin. So I suppose I'm in good company. Thank you!
jjdiogenes-
What would you know about being a Christian? I'd be curious to know?
rolln4him: Your hate is pretty clear. You can hate gay people all you want but don't pretend to be a Christian.
Gary,
Are you kidding me? What would Jesus do? How many times have homosexuals flopped their lazy butts on that pew of self-justification.
Jesus hung out with the whores, drunks, theives, etc. But He didn't condone their sin, nor did He involve Himself in those sins. The same way He would treat the homosexual. He would hang with them, and try to get them to see the truth and repent of their sins.
THAT'S what Jesus would do.
Californians need to stand up- NOW! This is the forefront battle of many battle to come.
Go to protectmarriage.com and find out how you can get involved with closing this same-sex marriage nonsense once and for all.
I'll say it again: Wicker is courageous to stand up to the supposed and self proclaimed "tolerant" gay agenda!
We've had enough of their strutting around naked in our public streets flaunting gay pride, intimidation of those that disagree (like flagging posts), endless lies, and name-calling - you still hear them in the news with their trade mark name calling: "bigot", "intolerant", "homophobe", hate-monger, and sometimes they'll even string them all together.
They mocked people of faith; have disrespect for people of genuine deeply held religious convictions and get judges to overturn the will of the people.
Tolerance, uh? Give me a break. Enough of this game. Ban same-sex marriage!
Oh, by the way - gary - WWJD?? He'd tell the homosexuality to repent and be baptized - genius. Get a clue and get educated about the Word of God! God can't be mocked and your're making a fool of yourself. Stop it!
gary -
Go ahead and hit the "hate" button a few more time. The name calling that the gay agenda spews out is pathetic. Hey gary, why don't you throw in a few others...like: Homophobe, intolerant, bigotted, religious right -
I do have to admit that the name calling has been effective, but we're tiring of the scam. Gay is sin! Period. There's no history of a society that has flourished as a result of gay rights. Every society that has existed, saw homosexuality as being a detriment to society. You don't have to be a social genius to figure it our either.
WWJD? Get a life, people.
The ideal of father and mother and no divorce is already broken. You would deny children the protection of married parents when a Gay person adopts a child who needs a family, or when a previously married Gay person has a child.
Your logic and hatred of Gay people is so flawed its scary.
cindy444;
Rather than me trying to educate you on the Word of God, which sounds like would be a task in and of itself. I'll refer you to an article that deals with judging. Essentially, there's two judging categories. God's judgment and Christian's right to judgment. Get educated.
Try this article for a start since you don't open your Bible:
http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/articles/judging.html
Whoever is flagging, should at least explain why they are flagging and stop being a coward!
The gay community are fast at work trying to prevent any discussion Christians sites allow and it's too bad. So much for tolerance.
It appears that the "flash flagger" is playing judge to me.
>So I take it that at one time you did believe homosexuality was wrong?
No. I don't recall ever holding that position. Apparently, my parents' talk of loving thy neighbor in reference to the ladies next door corrupted me very young with that horrible idea. That darn Jesus and his love stuff.
Hey roll4him. What are/were you doing reading The Advocate? I am sure that those "vacation" destinations you are talking about were advertised in plenty of other publications. Don't think that straight people are above deviant sexual acts. As far as behavior goes. Why don't we look at the how the behavior of people in the 70's are being portrayed in the television show Swingtown. The only dark corners in society are closeted and repressed people living lies about who they are. Everyone says that Christians are hypocrites and that we judge. I am through judging. Its too exhausting and the negative energy it takes hurts. Gays are people too and we should respect that.
Cindy444-
If you're going around representing yourself as a supposed Christian, I have every right as a Christian to rebuke you when you're wrong. Fortunately, IT IS God's judgment for your final eternal home and not my job! But there's one thing I don't tolerate much of, is a Christian who won't call sin - sin! Why? Because those Lesbians risk living eternity away from God, because their supposed Christian neighbor didn't love them enough to share with them God's word. All you have to do is read related scripture to them about homosexuality and let God speak you fake.
cindy444-
So I take it that at one time you did believe homosexuality was wrong? Right! Congratulations, you've bought into one of Satan's lies and the numberous lies of the gay agenda.
Let me guess? You're a member of the ELCA? Listen, honey, I hate to tell you this, but if you don't repent from your waywardness, you risk missing your flight home - oh, that's right the Lutheran's don't go for the rapture bit. Dang!
And please, rolln4him, reconsider your desire to determine who stands condemned. There is no lack of clarity in the scriptures in indicating that such judgement is absolutely not yours to make. That belongs to God and Him alone.
areyoukiddingyourseelf and cindy -
The Advocate (a gay magazine) during the '80s long advertised trips to countries that were accustomed to child prostitutes (still going on today) and pandered to the gay community. Funny thing happened as the gay agenda started going mainstream - alas, suddenly those ads seemed to disappear. Ummmm, I wonder what happened. I'll tell you; they knew that I they came out from the dark corners of society, their lifestyles would be scrutinized, so the ditched the political baggage of pedophilia and worked to posture a "loving relationship" with one partner. Don't worry, 10 years from now - if the Lord hasn't returned - pedophiles will start "coming out of the closet" as well as just about everything unimaginable.
As with the hetero and their sexual deviancy - I agree, but they don't apply for a permit and parade down major city streets having sex. Oh, OK, maybe Mardi Gra , but that has a mix of just about everything. Trust me, if there's sexual flagrancy in a parade, the homosexual community is there.
Well rolln4him. That is the beauty of America and faith. Faith is a very personal thing, particularly for this lifelong Lutheran and as an US citizen, I have the right to worship and love Jesus as I choose. My sense of being Christian is not determined by you and what you believe is a "false Christianity". It is built in my heart with personal contact with Jesus, the Scriptures and a church I've visited since my baptism there as a baby.
I have always loved those two women next door as the good, honest and caring people that they are. I believe Jesus would support and love them too. There has never been a question of that love being real from my parents or from me. It has not ever wavered, regardless of what is currently happening societally and was never impacted by that.
While I respect the word of God as truth, I also find it necessary to understand that while God does not err, humans do. Even Luther understood this and it is in that tradition that I study the bible and translations with a clear understanding that men have erred in their interpretation and translation of God's word. With all due respect, I will continue to trust the personal relationship I have with God over your opinion.
cindy-
if you answer no to my question, then you're deceived and stand condemned already.
cindy -
You said; "My only agenda is living life through the love and redemption of Jesus Christ."
Well, I hope you don't take this with too much offense - but you're doing a crummy job of fulfilling your Christian obligation with your false love towards your lesbian neighbors. If they claim to be Christina - rebuke them. First, repent from your false and ingenuine disregard for pointed scripture first, then rebuke them. If they're not Christian, after your own repentance, go over and share the Gospel of Christ with them.
Let me help you with your confusion in regard to pedophiles, gayness, transgender, bestiality, polygamy etc. by just stating that they're all a perversion of God's ordained institution of marriage. That's why we've called them perverts for centuries. It's only been in the last few years that the "open-mindedness" era has come to play. If, and that's a big "if", you truly are a Christian and have been for as long as you say - then I can bet my last dollar that at one time you had no issue with saying that the homosexual lifestyle was a sinful lifestyle ? Right? If you answered "yes" then, somewhere along the way you bought into the "did God really say..." lie from Satan.
I don't understand why you people cannot just see that two people who love and care about each other is a good thing. Marriage is public acknowledgment about love and caring and should not be denied the right to anyone. I have read your comments about the gays strutting around naked in public. Lets face it the straight people in middle America are not exactly conservative. There a plenty more trashy strip clubs, biker bars, and places like Hoooters that all of you people should be ashamed of. Oh and Cinddy444 your comment of "Research shows that there's a strong correlation between gay men and pedophile behavior" is wrong and false. I am sure that you read that somewhere and now believe it. Trust me I don't think that a pedophile will become mainstream in any lifetime. There are a lot more news stories about straight men being pedophiles and rapists then gay men. Like you Cindy444 I cannot get behind any kind of discrimination. Everyone says that Christians are hypocrites and that we judge. I am through judging. Its too exhausting and the negative energy it takes hurts. Gays are people too and we should respect that.
I agree- what the snot did didy do.
Hey, that almost sounds like a song or something - did didy do, do. du op du op! Come on everyone - join in.
Talk about name calling... so you're saying I'm a slimy unrepentant fluffy weasel, with a broken leg, whose backside is slacken, and sliding on the ground, and who is apparently "way to gracious" with his complements towards your character.
AND EVIL!!! SOMEONE FLAGGED ME!
I can understand someone flagging rolln4him, but me? why?
My only agenda is living life through the love and redemption of Jesus Christ.
Pedophiles that pray on young boys are not gay men. They are pedophiles. Just as male pedophiles that pray on young girls are not heterosexual. They are pedophiles. Or do you accept that the men who rape young girls are heterosexuals as we are? Such acts are not love or even sex, they are power and control and violence. In fact, studies have shown that a child's risk of being molested by his or her relatives' heterosexual partner is over one hundred times greater than by someone who might be identifiable as being homosexual...as I was by my own grandfather.
So the unfortunate part of your logic, is that the strongest correlation is between men and such use of power and force. Should we ban the rights of normal men because of the incredibly disgusting number of young girls and boys who are molested by men?
I will never be tolerant of someone forcing themselves on another and taking away their consent to such acts.
And there is the difference. Homosexuals are engaged in acts between two consenting adults, just as my marriage with my husband is built on love and consent between adults. For love that I have personally seen as real between homosexuals, I can have tolerance, yes. I do not see that as a problem.
I grew up with two lesbians next door. For the past 35 years, I have seen their love and commitment to each other. They were never inappropriate to me and were, in fact, caring and good neighbors and helpful to me and my parents. I just can not make the connection between how you see homosexuals and these two women.
Who's the flash flagger???
Who flagged diddy???
Diddy - did you flag yourself?
didy-
Thanks for the thumbs down you slime! You're way too gracious!
didy -
Yeah - that's right? All sorts of "sensitivity training" and other brainwashing gimmicks!!
I know you wouldn't flag - you're not a coward. An unrepentant slacker, but not a coward!
diddy-
Let's put it this way - you cyber slack'n, backsliding, lame unrepentant fluff - if I were to say that I'm against the homosexual lifestyle in the workplace, what do you suppose will happen? You weasel.
"Who was the coward who flagged me?? "
It wasn't me, but I gave you a thumbs down anyway, since I'm sure whatever you said wasn't good. :^)
didy -
Where have you been?? I actually posted something else, but that got flagged
cindy444-
Equating homosexuality and pedophilia is not the issue. Tolerance is the issue. Couldn't we say that you're not tolerant of a pedophile - is there a chance his is just another sexual orientation - or are you using "tolerance" to promote your own selfish agenda?
Research shows that there's a strong correlation between gay men and pedophile behavior. Look at the catholic priest situation - young boys and gay men is just the tip of the ice-berg.
Pedophiles and other deviant sexual behavior behavior (alternative lifestyles I think we're calling them) will eventually pave their way to mainstream. Sure, perhaps YOU don't agree, but why couldn't the pedophiles and sorts start calling YOU intolerant, ignorant, hateful, etc. etc. ???
Alright, whoever is "flagging" my post should at least post why they're doing it. Does the truth get ya?
Sorry. I just do not equate homosexuality with pedophilia. They are two distinct and very separate things. I can quite easily remain firmly in favor of harsh penalties for pedophiles while also recognizing that homosexuals are American citizens just as I am. I thinks it's rather embarrassing to not be able to see a difference between pedophilia and homosexuality.
Oh, yeah! And did I say that they won't stop until they forced their lifestyle on everyone. They weren't happy with a compromise of civil unions, the real truth is that they want their perversion to be accepted by all and they will call you every name in the book and intimidate until you succumb.
I'll say it again: Wicker is courageous to stand up to the supposed and self proclaimed "tolerant" gay agenda!
We've had enough of their strutting around naked in our public streets flaunting gay pride, intimidation of those that disagree (like flagging posts), endless lies, and name-calling - you still hear them in the news with their trade mark name calling: "bigot", "intolerant", "homophobe", hate-monger, and sometimes they'll even string them all together.
They mocked people of faith; have disrespect for people of genuine deeply held religious convictions and get judges to overturn the will of the people.
Tolerance, uh? Give me a break. Enough of this game. Ban same-sex marriage!
Granted, it is sad it has come to this. Yet, it is so needed as our culture is profoundly affected by the evils of post-modernism. Likewise, relativism of the individual must not be hegemonic upon the majority. As a married Christian man, marriage refers to a covenant between God, Man and Woman. This is also the Jewish understanding as well. A cultural redefinition of marriage will lead to further depravity and confusion (look at N. Europe). I support this bill and will encourage my Senator to do so as well!
Vitter is a joke. I guess he thinks that having sex with a prostitute isn't threatening to his marriage, but if a same-sex couple gets married THEN his marriage is in jeopardy.
I just can't get behind enshrining discrimination in our Constitution, whatever my religious beliefs may be.
Having Larry Craig and David Vitter as co-sponsors of this bill is just embarrassing. Have these two no shame?