Updated 11:59 pm.EST, Sun November 22, 2009

Society|Wed, Jul. 16 2008 02:39 PM EDT

McCain Opposes Gay Adoption; Respects States' Decision

By Ethan Cole|Christian Post Reporter

Senator John McCain said he opposes allowing gay couples to adopt children, but his campaign clarified Tuesday that the Republican presidential candidate believes the issue should be left to states to decide following criticisms from gay rights groups.

The putative Republican presidential nominee had said in an interview published Sunday in the New York Times that he thinks it has been “proven that both parents are important in the success of a family.”

“[S]o, no, I don’t believe in gay adoption,” he stated.

McCain, who has an adopted a daughter with his wife, Cindy, said he wanted to encourage adoption, but that the adoptive parents should be a man and woman, or a traditional couple.

But after his statement drew criticisms from gay rights groups, his campaign issued a clarification statement.

“John McCain could have been clearer in the interview in stating that his position on gay adoption is that it is a state issue, just as he made it clear in the interview that marriage is a state issue," Tucker Bounds, a campaign spokesman, said in a statement. “He was not endorsing any federal legislation."

McCain is opposed to same-sex “marriage” and endorsed a ballot initiative to overturn California’s state ruling that legalized the practice, but believes each state should decide how to define marriage, rather than the federal government.

Bounds said McCain was only expressing his “personal preference” that children be raised by a mother and father, but recognized there are cases of abandoned children who have no caretaker.

“John McCain believes that in those situations that caring parental figures are better for the child than the alternative,” Bounds said, without elaborating if McCain believes a gay couple adopting a child is better than the child remaining in the orphanage.

The Republican candidate has been carefully treading between constituencies in an effort to avoid offending his diverse body of support. Although touting his conservative stance on abortion and gay “marriage” to values voters, McCain often seems hesitant to declare his position on these issues when in a more moderate crowd for fear of offending potential voters.

McCain will need the support of Republican voters as well as independents to beat Democrat rival Barack Obama.

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  • Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "This is why Jesus stayed away from quoting the Scriptures "

    I think He DID quote scripture to people who claimed to 'know' (most often religious leaders). But He just as often, if not more often, used parables to teach.

    "I would prefer one good statement of grace over 1,000 statements of anything else"

    I would agree, as long as that statement did not fly in the face of scripture. But often, when we do NOT use Scripture, we slowly walk away from its teaching. Also, God's words are much more effective than mine.

    I think we need to share scripture, but then give an application, an example, or tie it in with the subject at hand - this is the wisdom of which you wrote. But as I said, there are times when its more effective (especially among people who claim Christ) to use just the word of God.

  • Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The bottom line then is that we shall know them by their fruits. I'm not assigning motive. I've just been around the block enough times to recognize what motive clearly goes with what action. It is the action that shows legalism vs. grace. This is why Jesus stayed away from quoting the Scriptures because it was what the religious leaders did and it would have been viewed as legalism. It doesn't work on people who have been beat up with legalism. They become numb to it.

    This was my point all along. If it looks like a duck.... If it looks like legalism.... The point here is to bring wisdom vs. knowledge. After 35 years in the ministry I can honestly say I would prefer one good statement of grace over 1,000 statements of anything else. Grace brings life. Legalism brings arguement. Beware of those who love to argue....

  • Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:32 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Daniel Paul,
    you wrote, "Interesting statement. Is sin a matter of motive, action or nature?"

    ooo! GOOD discussion point.

    Let's see. Obviously, our hearts/minds is where sin begins:
    Mark 7:20-21
    20 He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21 For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "

    And obviosuly we can have impure motives:
    1 Thessalonians 2:3
    For the appeal we make does not spring from error or impure motives, nor are we trying to trick you.

    But we have a sinful nature:
    Romans 7:21-25
    21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

    But these lead to sinful actions:
    Galatians 5:16-26
    16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. 19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

    So, I think sin is all four. I think we have a sin nature, we think sinful thoughts, have sinful motives and these lead us to do sinful things.

    I think what we do is as important as why we do it and who we are internally.

  • Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Man, you really like to assign motive. "

    Interesting statement. Is sin a matter of motive, action or nature?

  • Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:33 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    "Many a Christian like to list Scripture after Scripture to show someone is 'more of a sinner' then they are. It's quite judgemental."

    Man, you really like to assign motive. Could it be that people quote scripture because we believe that God's word is effective?

    "The truth is simple. We are all sinners just as sinful in the eyes of God as the next. Jesus loved each of us to die in our place so we don't have to go to hell. If we give Him our death in sin and take His life then we live and are free in Him"

    We agree! :) Its all about Christ. We're all sinners, and no sin is worse or better than any other.

  • Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:50 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Quite right believer. Many a Christian like to list Scripture after Scripture to show someone is 'more of a sinner' then they are. It's quite judgemental.

    The truth is simple. We are all sinners just as sinful in the eyes of God as the next. Jesus loved each of us to die in our place so we don't have to go to hell. If we give Him our death in sin and take His life then we live and are free in Him.

    It just doesn't really get more simple. It is my hope that people can really grasp the concept that Christ is the difference between Christians and non. Then we can accept that sinners (even homosexuals) are no worse than we are and in need of a savior.

  • Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    hlerwin, your thought is not trite at all, after all Christ said unless we have the simple faith of a child we cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. Sometimes we in the Christian tend to complicate the truths of God's Word for not only believers, but especially for non-believers.

  • Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "I have found that which is lost in the complex is defined by simplicity."

    This is the way I think about things, too. It's trite, but all the great truths deep down are "simple."

  • Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I really am a simpleton at heart. My Pastor laughed when I made that comment to him but I really do view myself that way. I have found that which is lost in the complex is defined by simplicity.

    As to the question that's not a question...Jesus said that which is not for us is against us and that which is not against us if for us. A servant doesn't questions the word of his Master. That's the way He called it...it's good enough for me.

    The problem I think you're getting at is the age old tradition of doing what you want and tagging God to it. I have never found the Bible to be all the complicated or unclear (somehow needing interpretation). One of the reasons a child can program your VCR when you can't is because they look at the instructions from a simplistic point of view. We get lost in all the details. The same can be said of the Bible.

    Read-do...how much more simple, eh? "Love the Lord with all your heart, soul and mind; and love your neighbor as yourself." Read-do, repeat....

  • Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Valid points, DP, but other sincere readers make other points. Am I to assume that they are in the grasp of Satan, or that they are "promoting the homosexual agenda?" Haven't conservative Bible readers promoted the Christian agenda for centuries? (Not a real question to you from me. I just kept typing too long!)

  • Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:55 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    hlerwin - there's no foundation to base the homosexual assumption on. It would be pure work of fiction. In fact, by the law they would have both stoned. It didn't matter who they were.

    Also, I Samuel 18:1-4 paints a very differend picture. It talks about their souls being knit together. I have one or two brothers like that. People actually ask us if we are brothers (as in the same mother).

    vs. 4 was a traditional symbol of recognition. Having the robe and armor made David as important as Johnathan in many peoples eyes. He became as a brother that day.

  • Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:26 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    I have just reread the scripture about David and Jonathan. I have never even heard before that some readers consider the relationship of these two men to homosexual. (Where have I been?) Anyway, it does not seem too far fetched to me that these men's love was sexual. But, of course, I do not recoil in horror when confronted with gay men or women lovers. Ithink many people in our society do recoil. So, for them, to hear that David and Jonathan might have been lovers is like hearing unbelievable and condemning news about a person who had always been held in very high esteem. The ordinary American who learned about the Bible in the average Sunday school class simple cannot process the new information. I do not assert that Jonathan and David were lovers, but I would not be horrified to learn that that was, in fact, the case. There is too much middle class American culture in today's Christianity.

  • igh »
    Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    James 4:4 "Unfaithful people! Don't you know that to be the world's friend means to be God's enemy? If you want to be the world's friend, you make yourself God's enemy."

    Now here is the site i came across doing research not to long back. Here is the link that some have been asking on the movie being made on the lie of David's and Johnathan's homosexual relationship. You see there are 'church's' that believe such blasphemy that its hard to comprehend, but its all to justify themselves. Read the whole page but start where the link takes you. Its a satanic church. They preach a false Gospel and lead many to damnation. Its my 'Job' if you will my Gift of the Spirit and my Ministry given unto me by God to expose all those who lead others astray, to stand against them, and yes Debate them. And Jesus did 'whoop' on them in yahoo and many other sites!

    http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Resources&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2122#Pt3

    this is the metropolitan 'church'

    1Corinthians 3:16 Surely you know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you!
    1Co 3:17 God will destroy anyone who destroys God's temple. For God's temple is holy, and you yourselves are his temple.
    1Co 3:18 You should not fool yourself. If any of you think that you are wise by this world's standards, you should become a fool, in order to be really wise.
    1Co 3:19 For what this world considers to be wisdom is nonsense in God's sight. As the scripture says, "God traps the wise in their cleverness";
    1Co 3:20 and another scripture says, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are worthless."

  • Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    hlerwin - I don't care if you or anyone spams their stuff. if I see that I have read it before then I'll just skip your post and go to the next. No need for hostility.

    I am entitled to my opinion and you are entitled to your. This is a free country so far and each person should be allowed to express their opinion even if it rubs someone wrong. Though as Christians we should try to be tactful in expresing our opinions.

  • Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:34 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    star2, risking accusations of spamming, I'll c&p my comment on "Mass. Senate" site:

    Some of you folks are going to have to get over thinking that the only "true" reading of the scriptures comes out of the Baptist publishing houses in Nashville, Tennessee, or from the Moody Bible Institute or some Dutch Reform part of Michigan. I have never thought of Jonathan and David's relationship as anything but close, close friends. If it is incorrect that their affection was homosexual, maybe it's good for Ang Lee to bring out that other point of view. Let it be refuted in the ensuing discussion. Following "Brokeback Mountain," many testimonies of homosexual cowboy relationships certainly came out. (No pun intended....)

  • Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:11 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    McCain is a fool. no one takes into consideration the gay couples who are willing to take in handicap or mentally challenged orphans, or adopt international students would could one day die from all the nuisances in this world. both parents are important? really mccain? thats funny because as it is now, SO many single teens are having babies, creating unstable and inefficient lives for their children. oh, but thats ok.

  • Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:52 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Yes Daverley , and let Ang Lee and his movie be accursed.

  • Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:02 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Has anyone heard the rumors about Brad Pitt planning to star in a movie depicting a "Biblical" love story between David and Jonathan? Supposedly, the director of Brokeback Mountain is producing it.

  • Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:33 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I went to college in Chattanooga, Tn. I use to like to go to Lookout Mountain on Saturday/Sunday if I was bored. The candied apples/carmel apples that I would get at Ruby Falls sure were good. Tried moonshine (the real thing, it was illegal), dipped my finger in it and tasted it, but it was nasty tasting. Never tried it again. HaHaHa

    My dad was born and raised in Clinton County, Ky. The mountains in Ky are beautiful.

  • Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Me PC??? LOL!!!!

  • Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    daniel, my wife is from the eastern mountains of TN and we've been in several different areas serving in ministry in SE KY.

  • Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Daniel Paul asked:

    "DP on the CP is PC"

    ??????????

    That's:

    Daniel Paul on the "Christian Post" is politically correct.

    (I meant "politically correct" in earnest, since I took your meaning to be that we should not think we can say anything we like - no matter how negative - and make it OK by using "Bless his/her heart."

    Nancy Pelosi did this yesterday with her critcism of Bush, and her comment hit a very false note. And she's not even from the "South!"

  • Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    So, you're not that far away. We had a pastor who moved up to the mountains of KY or TN. He was a well to do businessman who sold off his controling interest in his company to serve the Lord full time. The Lord paired him up with a church that really couldn't afford a pastor and he didn't need the money! It worked out great. I think he puts his $100/wk salary into the benevolence fund.

    Even people in KY have the right to run their own state!

  • Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Daniel, I'm a transplant in SE Kentucky, but I thought it was the opposite way around, if you start your comment with "well bless his/her heart" you're free to say anything after that :)!

  • Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ""Take my way (which is synonymous with "God's way") or the highway!"

    Actually, no.... My way was not God's way. My way was self-centered and selfish wanting what I thought was best for me. So, no..."my way" is not synonymous with God's way.

    In fact, even though I was raise Christian and turned my life over to the Lord at an early age, I have had many 'my way' things to deal with. The Bible calls it 'the old self'.

    I have never said you were not welcome to drive your life how you want. In fact, the Proverbs says to never stand between a fool and his folly. So, no matter where you are or what you are doing, you are welcome to do what you want (wise or foolish)!

    God's way is in the Bible. I gave up 'my way' for God's way along time ago. "I am crucified with Christ. Never the less I live, not I but Christ who lives in me. The life I now live, I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself up for me."

    I guess with that in mind it's a complement for you to see my way as God's way. Thanks!

  • Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    My only correction to (or suggestion for) your post, Daniel, is that "South" should be capitalized; although, of course, I never capitalize "north." Hmmmmm.......

  • Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "well, I'll pray that you stop being gay"

    We have a saying here in the south that seems to have the same tone as that statement..."bless your heart". You can say almost anything and get away with it as long as it's followed by some verison of that. Ex: "She really is UGLY! Bless her heart...."

    Sin is an issue between the individual and Jesus. It always has been. I do bring sin to peoples attention simply because I know how much damage sin can do. If I viewed you as a junk car I wouldn't say a thing about you being in a demolition derby. Jesus views you as a very valuable person and so should everyone else. I just happen to believe Jesus has a best for you and it's outlined in the Bible as written. After all, what's the point of believing it if you dont' believe it as written. It would just be a book of suggestions.

    Could you imaging if a car manual said "We suggest you change your oil sometime." Like that would work! In short, I've come to the conclusion that I would be a real mess if not for the instructions in the Bible.

    As I've posted before, Billy Graham once said the only difference between him and Charles Manson is the grace of God. It could have been the Charles Manson Evangilistic Assocaition and we wouldn't even know the difference!

  • Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:31 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    igh, that is very unproductive...use your own thoughts, ive read the Bible plenty of times before

  • igh »
    Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:15 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
    John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer's comments to Mike makes me regret every smartass remark I have ever made to a "Christian" on this site. I'm sure I'll get over this as soon as I read some narrow, knee-jerk, reactionary comment at the next column. The devil makes me do it. (Actually, almost all of my comments aren't smartass ones. I actually mean what I write. And a lot of the remarks I'm responding to don't seem Christian to me.)

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike2685, the Rochester Red Wings used to be the Triple A club for the O's I was sad to see that end. Have a great time at the arts fair and I'll look forward to posting with you next week, believer

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I appreciate that very much believer. My favorite part of the Our Father has always been "Thy Will be done." Such a simple line with so much meaning. It drives me nuts when people say "well, I'll pray that you stop being gay" because quite honestly, that is no one's right but mine if I so choose to pray that way or God, if it is his will. I appreciate the fact that you give it up to God rather than pretending you know what's best :)

    Baltimore is having a big arts fair this weekend so I probably won't be on much, but I'll do my best to catch up with the dialogue on Monday. Enjoy the weekend!

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike2685, I kind of feel how Alvin York felt in the movie "Sgt. York" when he was struggling with the God or Country issue. I truly hear your heart in this matter and once again I do not question your motives for wanting to raise children at all and my heart aches for you in that regard. But we know the importance that Jesus Christ puts on children and we can't afford to do less. Having worked with kids in AWANA and VBS, I know a lot of kids whose parents with all due respect were worst than worthless and then you meet couples who appear as if they would be the greatest parents a kid could ask for and you find out they can't have kids themselves, but at least they have the option of adopting and many do. I sense that same anguish and passion in you Mike and I don't know what to tell you but that I am genuinely praying that God will walk you through and give you perhaps not the answer your looking for, but His answer in this very heartwrenching matter. I wish there were more I could do, but right now this is the best that I can do for you.

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:44 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    believer, the problem is you're operating on the idea that sexual orientation is a choice, which I would vehemently argue. I did not choose my sexual orientation, at any point. I know I have gone over a lot that I had a perfectly normal childhood and don't meet any of those check lists some have developed for reasons I might be gay. There truly is no explaining it. Again, I think anyone who worries that children raised in a household with 2 fathers or mothers will turn out gay is not looking at the research. We don't know what causes sexual orientation, but I think the research on either side of the issue would back up that it is developed at a very early age, usually before puberty. I have had gay feelings since before I knew there was a word for them or that there was an entire gay community. I never met another gay person until high school, when I already knew I was not attracted to girls. How would it be any different for my children? I think sexual orientation is just something innate. Might my children experiment with a same sex partner? Sure, but I can guarantee you they will not "choose" their sexual orientation, because it just doesn't work that way.

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I don't add this remark, believer, out of deference to that overused word "tolerance," but I am glad you give serious thought to Mike's posts. A knee-jeck condemnation or 25 lines of cut&pasted scripture are not helpful on a bulletin board like this one.

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike2685, my wife and I just got back from lunch and I've just read your post. This is truly a tough issue with no easy answers and certainly no answer that will please everybody. I think for many heterosexuals, this is totally something new and there is, for lack of a better term, much fear. And right now there is no way we can prove to the satisfaction of many that a child growing up in a homosexual home will not become or be influenced to consider becoming a homosexual. And for some if they were to say okay to homosexuals adopting children they would in essence feel they were condoning homosexuality.

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:54 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Daniel, I have said many, many times that I agree all children fare better with a mother and father, but I have also said many many times that is not the way the makeup of our society is. Should we not let grandparents raise children? I didn't see that in the Bible. Should we not let single mothers raise children? They must not be able to instill in their children the values Jesus would have wanted. If they were good mothers, they would have stayed with their husbands, after all, the Bible does instruct them to be subserviant to men.

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Is it possible, too, that gay people think what you and I do with our wives in bedroom is disgusting? Does that give them the right to try to stop us?

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:47 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike must be interested in your views, Daniel, or he would have signed off from this Web site. But many here say, "Take my way (which is synonymous with "God's way") or the highway!"

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:44 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "The Bible is clear to anyone who is not treating the it like it's subject to interpretation that it takes issue with homosexuality."

    That is great - for YOU, Daniel, but maybe not for Mike. His decisions are up to him, and your laudable reverence for the Bible has no bearing on Mike (unless he chooses to take your advice).

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike...here's a point of view.... Those of us who are Bible believeing (that means we actually do what it says) Christians believe that parenting must be from a Biblical point of view. Anything else is not the 'best' way to raise children. When you question 'good' parents who are not Christian you find they are using Biblical principles without knowing it. I work with many (many) parents so this is simply an observation.

    Therefore, it doesn't matter if you are gay or straight. You have to be in line with what the Bible says yourself before you can instill it in a child. The Bible is clear to anyone who is not treating the it like it's subject to interpretation that it takes issue with homosexuality. It calls it sodomy. Therefore Christians would take issue with someone who practices sodomy adopting children as we would with someone who abuses drugs. Why? The definition of the greek word talks about abusing oneself with mankind.

    Here's the main issue many have missed. Several of us Christians on this site believe the Bible is the operations manual for our life. We read it and do what it says. We do not consider ourselves smarter than the manufacturer simply because, in this case, the manufacturer is GOD! It's simply a matter of whose way of doing things you want. Is it your way or the way God clearly wrote?

    Again, those who learn to identify counterfit money in this country do not look at one single counterfit bill. They learn and memorize the real deal. Jesus said in Matt that marriage is between one man and one woman. That makes it the real deal and anything else is counterfit...gay or straight.

    I had a friend in a church who smoked. Others in the church asked me to speak to him about his smoking. I told them he had given up way more to just be smoking cigs then they had repented of in their entire lives! It's a matter of God's perspective not ours.

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:53 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    believer, my kids won't be raised in a vacuum. They will be interacting with my 3 siblings, all of whom are straight, my partner's 2 siblings, who are both straight, married, and have kids, and their grandparents. I have many, many friends who are married with kids who will also be interacting with my children. I want my children to know there are many different types of families, but that the most important thing is they will always know both of their parents love them, regardless of the sex of their parents.

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:46 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    May I chime in? To me, Mike does not sound angry, and believer does not sound judgmental. Both of them sound earnest and concerned - and free from the far right and left jargon so usual on CP postings. Amen!

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:45 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    mike2685, but I do disgree with your point of where children get their learning, if in the area of affection they are fortunate to have parents who display affection to each other in a healthy and wholesome way they will tend to adopt that same standard for themselves, but if they are never exposed to that type of teaching then they will go find it out somewhere else. Unfortunately, if a child is raised in a home where their parents are always fighting or abuse is present there is a good chance they will adopt that for themselves as well. And yes outside influences can have an impact as well, but I believe if kids are raised in a home where the parents provided a healthy picture of affection and love for each other there is an excellent chance the children will follow in their example when they begin moving into dating relationships. My question is how would a child being raised with homosexual parents not tend to be drawn to having homosexual relationships? How are you going to tell them to not imitate the love and affection they see you and your partner sharing with each other? Let's face it you living in a heterosexual home and being homosexual is the exception and as I said earlier children being raised by a homosexual couple is still relatively new and the jury is still out with regards to the impact this will have on the sexual development of a child raised in this type of enviroment.

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:34 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    I know Believer, I hope my post didn't come across as angry. I'm wondering, what specifically are your serious concerns? Also, how do these concerns match up with my concerns that there are hundreds of thousands of children in need of adoption, and just not enough straight couples willing to do the job?

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:28 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike2685, once again I'm not questioning you and your partners parenting skills and motives for wanting to adopt children, but I'm sharing the serious concerns of many Christians who are opposed to homosexual couples being allowed to adopt.

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:21 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    believer, I was raised in a straight household around all straight, monogamous adults, yet I am gay. I think what my children will pick up on is the value of finding that soul mate to share yourself with sexually in a committed relationship. My parents were models of committment to each other, through thick and thin, yet I still went through a really promiscuous time in my life through college. I think children get ideas about sex through so many places that their home life eventually gets put on the back burner. Certainly my partner and I will raise our kids knowing about the birds and the bees and safe sex practices, and I'm not going to divulge how gays have sex unless they ever ask. I'm a fan of honesty. Kids are naturally curious, and there are ways to share information with them that is developmentally appropriate and won't "scar them for life."

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:16 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    mike2685, reading your posts, I do believe you would provide a good nurturing home for a child, but the concern of many of us who believe that God condemns the sexual practices of homosexuality is how would you and your partner have an impact on the sexual development of a child that wouldn't direct them to the homosexual persuasion. Let's face it children living in a homosexual household is still a relatively new development and there are many unanswered questions with regards to the sexual development of children who are being raised in this environment. My parents showed very little affection to each other and I've had to learn from others what I believe I should have learned from them about appropriate affection in a marriage. Children tend to relate to others the same way they saw, be it healthy or unhealthy, their parents relate to each other. And I know already part of your response will be unless the child is also born a homosexual there is no way they will become a homosexual, but as you know there are many Christians who don't believe it is a matter of genetics or heredity, but a matter of choice. And that is why many in the Christian community are opposed to allowing homosexual couples to adopt.

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:56 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Drewby, as heterosexuals it is so easy for us to make ignorant remarks like yours to Mike. God may have to give you a gay son or granddaughter one day - just to make you wake up!

  • Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:45 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    You just showed your ignorance...there is no choice in the matter. Jesus would not suddenly take about the fact that I am gay, he is using me the way I am. Trust me, I've tried the whole changing thing before...it just doesn't work.

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