U.S. Census Bureau Rejects Gay 'Marriage'

By Aaron Leichman|Christian Post Reporter

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Pro-family groups were encouraged this week by the announcement that the U.S. Census Bureau will not include same-sex “marriages” in its upcoming 2010 census report.

“The U.S. Census Bureau procedures used to count and tabulate relationship data are guided by and comply with legal requirements of the Defense of Marriage Act of 1996, which requires all federal agencies to recognize only opposite-sex marriages for the purposes of administering federal programs,” explained Census Bureau spokesman Stephen Buckner in a statement.

“Many of these programs rely on Census Bureau statistics,” he said. According to Census Bureau officials, any respondents who mark off persons of the same gender as “husband” or “wife” on the new census form will be automatically classified as an “unmarried partner.”

Currently, the Census Bureau considers as a family “two or more people related by birth, adoption or marriage.”

Jennifer Kerns, a communications director for ProtectMarriage.com, which is behind the ballot initiative to restore traditional marriage in California, was thrilled to see a federal institution backing the sanctity of marriage.

“The way that the federal government looks at it is the way that the law says it should be in California,” she said in a statement.

Jenny Tyree of Focus on the Family Action also lauded the recent development as a victory for common sense.

“The word 'marriage' has long been understood across many cultures as the cooperative union of male and female with a vital interest in the next generation,” she said in a statement.

“Thankfully, President Clinton signed the federal Defense of Marriage Act and gave the Census Bureau a clear guideline,” she concluded.

As the government agency that is responsible for the United States Census, the U.S. Census Bureau is mandated with fulfilling these obligations: the collecting of statistics about the nation, its people, and economy.

In addition to conducting a full population count every 10 years and making population estimates and projections between censuses, the Census Bureau also conducts surveys on behalf of various Federal Government and local government agencies on topics such as employment, crime, health, consumer expenditures, and housing.

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wbmoore »

Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:36 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

hlerwin,

"Well put, wbmoore, and I agree wholeheartedly. The place where you and I start to disagree is over the fact that the Dalai Lama went through this same process - with identical results. "

Thanks. I realize you did not want me to answer, but I felt I must. I agree that people of no faith and any faith can go through a process of personal renewal. But I disagree that the results are identical. The results might appear similar in the here and now, but are drastically different in the eternal.

The difference between just anyone doing this and a Christian doing it is the object of faith.

If God sent Jesus, and Jesus said He is the only way to be with God, then He's right. In which case, if someone puts his faith in himself, or other people, or something he want to call god and thinks this will help him in the eternal, then that person is mistaken.

If Christ was mistaken, then God is not who He said in the Bible He is.

But even if Christ was not sent by God, then it still boils down to what is the object of your faith, in who/what do you believe.

Not all religions can be right. Truth is truth - not what you or I or anyone wants it to be. The sun exists right now in space or it does not. It can not be both.

The same is true of God. Either there is one or not. If there is a god, then either He is the God of the Bible or not. It is because of the exclusive claims of Christ that we have decide definitely whether to believe and follow Christ or not.

If Christ was wrong, then we are free to think and act as we wish in this life. But if Christ was right, and Christ IS from God, and He IS the only way to be with God, then we have to do what He said to do.

Thus, if Christ was right, personal renewal (called spiritual growth by Christians) for a Christian provides benefit in this physical life, as well as in the afterlife. But there would be no such spiritual benefit in the afterlife for the non-believer, even if there might appear to be similiarities in the physical (they would not be identical, since the personal renewal for a Christian also helps one grow spiritually in relation to God).

If Christ was wrong, and there is no spiritual life, then the effects of anyone working for personal renewal can be the same in this life.

If Christ was wrong, but there IS an afterlife, then while the effect of personal renewal might be similiar in the physical realm, only those who follow whatever god needs to be followed will have benefit in the afterlife, and will have benefit from spiritual growth toward the god.
hlerwin »

Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:48 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Well put, wbmoore, and I agree wholeheartedly. The place where you and I start to disagree is over the fact that the Dalai Lama went through this same process - with identical results. (As I stated, we will disagree on this, so there's no need to answer by telling me that, yes, the Dalai Lama did that, but he is following a false god. I respect your ideas, but I don't need a reply.)
wbmoore »

Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:37 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

I've been thinking about grace and obedience and growth. I think the key is: upon regeneration by the Holy Spirit, there needs to be change towards God. The Holy Spirit then begins to convict us and generate a desire to obey God, in at least one area. If we are truly saved, as we mature in the faith (through prayer, reading the Bible, fasting, discipleship, sitting under teachers, encouragement of brothers, stepping out in faith, God speaking to us in what ever way we perceive), we will move towards a state of increasing love for God and obedience to the word of God. Many of us will have times of uncertainty, times of disobedience, but will be convicted by the Holy Spirit and confess our sins (agree with God), and move forward in our maturity.
wbmoore »

Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:34 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

James Reynolds,

Thanks, I feel the same about you all.
Daniel Paul »

Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:11 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

"I believe we need to treat people with love, but not necessarily kid gloves"

The Bible says to speak the truth in love. As our pastors point out in sermons from time to time...we either speak the truth or we think it's unloving to. This is called being 'passive/aggressive'.

The Bible calls us to be full of grace (which is assertive). I think all too often too many Christians are full of something else.... After all, if everyone who claimed the name of Christ actually loved God and mankind as He did...who could argue with our faith?
wbmoore »

Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:01 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

"Why is it so hard for people to understand they are not showing grace by beating people over the head with the Bible and Christianity?"

I think its where God has them - for some it is where they are in the growth continuum. For others it is calling.

I believe we need to treat people with love, but not necessarily kid gloves.

God has brought me to a place where, as I've said, we need to use scripture, and tie it in with real life. I don't think I was alway where I am in this. I think at one time, Scripture was sufficient. At another time, real life was the over riding feature of what I had to say. I think its more balanced to do both.

But then, I'm a teacher, not a prophet. I CAN be used as a prophet. I CAN be used as an evangelist. I CAN be used to exhort others. But my main calling is to teach. This is not the case for everyone.
James Reynolds »

Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:16 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

DP, believer, wbmoore, prophet, and rollin4him, mike2685
I would like to thank each one for your opinions for I see Christ in each one of you at different points in your life and it helps me to continue my santification. God bless you all, and I look forward to more relevant conversations with each of you
Daniel Paul »

Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:56 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

"we see legalism instead of grace."

You don't have to go much further than how posters like Mike and some others are treated here to see your point loud and clear. Why is it so hard for people to understand they are not showing grace by beating people over the head with the Bible and Christianity?
wbmoore »

Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:54 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

The problem has been called 'easy believism' or 'Lordship of Christ', depending on the emphasis in question.

I have seen many 'Christians' fall into the category that basically states, "I have made a profession of faith what more do I need?" (sometimes the checklist includes baptism, and sometimes church attendence. But for those people who fall into this category, rarely is obedience to God through obeying what the Bible states included in their checklist - and when it is, we see legalism instead of grace.
bigtex »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:07 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Daniel Paul, how true it is that is why I have led out in our community to unite the churches to begin a resource center that helps provide food to the needy. We also help find people jobs, help them learn to budget, assist with meds and many other things.

The church in general has yeilded our responsibility over to the goverment and allowed it to usurp is mission. We need to do better as the church in feeding their stomachs and feeding their souls.
Daniel Paul »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:40 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

"It just doesn't make sense to say, 'I'm a Christian' and then not believe the Lord's very words."

Simple...that seems to be the example from the majority of Christians today. After all, if we actually believed every word of the Lord, we would not have welfare in this country because we would be loving our neighbor as ourselves. There is little room to question true Christian love.

There's a quote...I don't know who said it. 'We have enough religion to hate but not enough religion to love.'
believer »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:09 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

bigtex, hard to say, but maybe he'll give us an answer.
bigtex »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:54 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

believer, that is interesting. I wonder if he experienced that same change thru a relationship with Jesus or if Christianity is just another "religion."
believer »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:29 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

bigtex, thanks and it doesn't make sense to me either. I think for some its about going to heaven and not going to hell, so they say a prayer, get baptized, join a church and then live their life anyway they choose. They fail to see that salvation is about a relationship with God and unfortunately for them I believe many of them are still not saved. But what's interesting about hlerwin is that he does not believe in the afterlife and when I asked him why he became a Christian he simply says because of the change he saw in his wife when she became a Christian.
bigtex »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:59 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

believer, i know you are right but why would one want to be a Christian and be a disciple of Christ and then not want to follow Him. A disciple is to follow Christ even when he leads into unknown territory. It just doesn't make sense to say, "I'm a Christian" and then not believe the Lord's very words.

It is just unfortunate that some Christians are willing to compromise the faith and adopt the pluralistic philosophy of the inclusivism.
Keep up the good work believer.
believer »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:28 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

bigtex, I understand what you're saying, but we do get to choose not to obey the Word of God, but if we choose to not obey the Word of God that does not negate the fact that it is still the Word of God. What hlerwin appears to be saying is that obedience and/or belief in what parts of the Bible are truly the Word of God is a matter of personal opinion, if you don't like something that is taught or a command that is given in the Bible you simply choose to ignore it and say it is not the Word of God and therefore I'm not obliged to believe it or obey it regardless what the Bible has to say about it.
bigtex »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:19 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

hlerwin, I am not attempting to be "sassy" but your comments have a few problems. First you said, "let me say that I plan to live my entire life following, as closely as I can, the instructions laid out for my culture and my family in the Bible." (July 22, 9:33 post).

With this statment I will assume you are a brother in Christ. Now here is the problem. I quoted Romans 13:1-2 which declared that God is the author of civil government and that no government exist without God's authority. Therefore, secular government falls under God's authority, thus marriage falls under God's authority. Note I did not say this, the Bible declares it.
Next you said,in your posting July 22, 11:41 post that it was ok for me to believe this but you could not. Here are your own words,"That's fine with me for you to believe that. But I don't." As a Christian, we do not get to choose what we want to believe in the Bible and what we want to ignore. We must all adjust our belief and concepts to God's word. We must never attempt to conform God's word to our preconceived ideas.

As a Christ follower, Jesus is Lord! His word declares it that is all we need to know. Now let's follow the word of the Lord.
You are right, I do not have authority over you, nor do I want such a right, but as a Christian believer, God's word is our standard by which we judge everything and everyone. God's word, the Bible, must be our authority therefore we must live by it, even when it goes against current cultural beliefs.
James Reynolds »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:44 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

hlerwin
how do you reconcile the Truths that are in the Bible to apply them to your life and family if you do not believe everything in the Bible as it is written. How do you determine which ones are important? Which ones are really true? Which ones then would apply to your life?
wbmoore »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:50 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Daniel Paul,

Excellent!
Daniel Paul »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:35 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

"Religion (every religion) has frequently been used in every culture to underpin our prejudices "

The Bible calls those people who would do such wolves in sheeps clothing. Being against sin isn't prejudice as prejudice is against people themselves rather than a behavior which the Bible clearly warns about.
Daniel Paul »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:32 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

The word marriage is defined in Websters as "a: the state of being married b: the mutual relation of husband and wife c: the institution whereby men and women are joined in a special kind of social and legal dependence for the furpose of founding and maintaining a family"

Simply put, the word marriage is confined to the relationship between a man and woman within the secualar definition.

"We would be losing our secular foundation."

A more accurate statement would be 'neutral foundation' as secularism is a religion. Still, marriage being between one man and one woman is supported by the dictionary.
wbmoore »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:39 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

I feel sorry for people who think all religions are the same. Something is either true or not. Not all can be true, as the do not all teach the same thing. Only one of them is right.
believer »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:16 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

hlerwin, I had a professor in college who said that one of the most unbiblical sayings in the Christian community was, "God says it, I believe it, that settles it." He went on to say it doesn't matter if anyone believes it or not, if God says it that settles it and if we have any sense at all we'll believe it. Christ said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and no one can come unto the Father but through Him. God said it, that settles it. There is no other way a person can become a child of God but by putting their faith/trust in the person and finished work of Jesus Christ alone. Our opinion of what saves a person does not change the fact that only Jesus can save a person. The only thing that matters is that we put our faith/trust in Christ alone to save us from the penalty of our sins, make us a child of God, and give us eternal life.
hlerwin »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:49 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

Religion (every religion) has frequently been used in every culture to underpin our prejudices (just as it's being used today regarding the question of gay marriage). It's a moot point anyway, since the men who are marrying men and the women who are marrying women don't give a flip for what you and I think of their "marriage," as CP always writes in in quotes. Five or ten years from, even CP will have dropped those quotation marks. Marriage is a civil right, period.
hlerwin »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:45 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Hmmm..... "It was understood by society, which had a much more godly influence, that marriage is of God..."

Both more godly AND more racist back then? Can it be both?
hlerwin »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:42 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

That 11:41 post was in reply to bigtex.
hlerwin »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:41 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

"The Bible declares that even secular government falls under the authority of Almighty God in the same manner that marriage falls under His authority."

That's fine with me for you to believe that. But I don't. And you have no more authority over me than I have over you. (Or "your 'version' of our God has no more authority over me," perhaps I should say. And your SAYING that He does really cannot make it so.)
hlerwin »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:37 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

believer, first of all, you and I have the same God. Don't be so sassy about that. When I read what you write, I am reminded of my wife's great-grandmother, who used to pray to Lono (the Hawaiian cargo-myth god) with such fervor. Later the lady became a Congregationalist, and she prayed to Jesus in the same tones. Every religious person is convinced that his/her god is the true god. Otherwise, we could not bring ourselves to worship that god. As I said, faith is a gift, and I have no intentions of trying to talk you out of your beliefs - nor could I, if I did want to do that.
bigtex »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:41 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

By the way, I did a little research about when marriage liscense became the norm in America. Though there is no definitive date and time, it is thought that such practices developed around the mid 1800's.

Around the mid 1800's some states required a liscense from the state for inter-racial marriages to be "legal." Until that point all marriages were deemed "legal" without such a document. (George and Martha Washington did not have a marriage liscense authorizing marriage.)
It was understood by society, which had a much more godly influence, that marriage is of God and does not need the "validation" of the state. It was also understood that marriage was and is today an issue of religion, whether a person is religious or not. Even in Civil ceremonies, the name and blessing of Almighty God was invoked.
bigtex »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:35 am Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

"But I am not naive enough to think that my way is the only way. What hubris! (And what a puny god.)"

hlerwin, your thoughts and theology frightens me when you say that you follow the Bible yet you do not accept the words of our Lord when He declares to be "the way and the truth and the life." Jesus literally claims to be THE ONLY WAY a person can have a relationship with his Creator.

That being said, I can understand why you would feel like you do on this issue. As you read the Bible you will see that it is God (not god) who has even established "secular" government. Romans 13:1 declares "For there is not authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God."

The Bible declares that even secular government falls under the authority of Almighty God in the same manner that marriage falls under His authority. Carried to its full understanding, the Bible declares that sinners and saints alike fall under the authority of God. God is sovereign and we must be careful not to reduce Him to our own level.
believer »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:43 am Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

hlerwin, but your view and my view doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is God's truth. Your god may be a puny god, but the God of the Bible is omnipotent in that He created the world by simply speaking it into existence and when He created Adam and Eve, He instituted marriage and thus God alone is the foundation for marriage. Your god appears to be a wimp who can't make up his/her mind. Whereas, the God of the Bible declares through His Son, Jesus that Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and no one can come to the Father(God) but through Christ. There is no other way but Christ. And to say there is makes both you and your god a liar.
hlerwin »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:34 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Yikes! (4th post!) Faith is a gift. It cannot be rationally explained.
hlerwin »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:33 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

At the risk of being criticized for 3 post when I could have said all I wanted in 1 post, let me say that I plan to live my entire life following, as closely as I can, the instructions laid out for my culture and my family in the Bible. But I am not naive enough to think that my way is the only way. What hubris! (And what a puny god.)
hlerwin »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:29 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

My analogy makes as much sense as your Edison analogy.
hlerwin »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:29 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

That's entirely your choice, believer, to think that a contract like marriage originated from your culture's collection of stories. The Japanese emperor (according to their myths) descends from Amaterasu (sp?), the sun god. And Lono will still return again to Polynesia with gifts for everyone who believes in him. Marriage is a valuable concept in any society. Our society and our religion did nor originate the idea. You may never have heard of Amaterasu, but you may have driven a Japanese car before. Does this make Amaterasu real and true?
believer »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:19 am Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

hlerwin, there are many in the world who may or may not know the name of Thomas Edison and yet they still benefit from many of his inventions and the advanced technology that has resulted because of the groundwork he laid. Just because people either don't know or choose to not acknowledge the God of the Bible doesn't negate either Him or what He has created or instituted.
believer »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:40 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

hlerwin, I repeat the FOUNDATION for marriage can be found in God alone when He instituted it in the Garden of Eden with the creation of Adam and Eve. And God's plan for marriage as one man and one woman was reaffirmed by Christ in the New Testament.
hlerwin »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:30 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

believer, marriage exists in many places that have never heard of our God or our scripture. They've never heard of Jesus, either, but these cultures have concepts of marriage. Don't be so narrow.
believer »

Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:53 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

hlerwin, the foundation of marriage is in God who when He created Adam and Eve also instituted the marriage of one man and one woman. And Jesus Christ in the New Testament affirmed God's plan for marriage as well.
hlerwin »

Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:37 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

My (lost) point in all that, bigtex is: I do not agree that marriage "has its very foundation in religion."
hlerwin »

Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:35 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

I think the concept of marriage has more to do with law than with religion, bigtex. The state must approve the marriage. After all, many people are married at city hall with no benefit of clergy. For many years (but not from the beginning of time), people have viewed what our government decreed and what the church decreed as the same thing. This is quite naturallly changing, along with society. If you are not in favor of same sex marriage then, of course, you have every right to oppose it. Your children and grandchildren probably will not feel so strongly about the topic. (At least, my children don't, though they are all in heterosexual marriages.) But courts sometimes come in to protect minorities from the "tyranny of the majority," just as the courts did during desegregation. Though I agree that desegregation and same-sex marriage are not completely parallel issues, they are close enough. And even if the California voters put in their anti-gay-marriage proposition, it will only be a temporary set-back for people of the same sex who want their full civil rights.
bigtex »

Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:02 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

hlerwin, my point exactly. Marriage has its very foundation in religion. I would be interested to know when government, esp. the U.S. gov. or state got involved in issuing marriage license. Why did they get involved in the first place? It appears that gov. took over a responsibility of the church in declaring one married.

One problem I see is the rise of pressure from governments around the world to pressure the church into performing homosexual marriage or be fined or at worst be closed down. If two people of the same sex want to play house please don't force the church to approve or participate. We are witnessing the church being forced to recognize homosexuality and if it doesn't then they are labeled as "homophobes" or "hatemongerers."

We are truly witnessing a moral breakdown of society and history shows acceptance of homosexual behavior is the removal of the final building block of civil society. At this point, I am not willing to risk civil and moral decay and will speak out against every attempt to normalize the homosexual lifestyle.
hlerwin »

Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:54 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

"It would be great if the government recognized that marriage is of God...."

Not so great, really. I hope I never live in a US where the "government recognized that marriage is of God." We would be losing our secular foundation.

Still, churches can perform the marriage ceremony for people who are their members. If a chuch does not approve of two men or two women marrying, it should not perform the ceremony. This, however, does not give that church or denomination any authority over other churches.
bigtex »

Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:14 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Just a thought here but maybe the U.S. government does not recognize homosexual marriage because there is no such thing as homosexual marriage. There is of course, homosexual cohabitation that attempts to define itself as marriage and two men or two women pretend to be husband and wife.

It would be great if the government recognized that marriage is of God and that being said is an issue for the church to define. Marriage existed long before organized government. It may well be a church-state issue.
Daniel Paul »

Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:23 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

chicago24 - I don't know that you understand the legalities of the system. In short...it's a bit on the nutsy side.

The Federal Census Bureau in not bound by the choices of individual states. Since there was nothing on the federal level preventing one man one woman marrige between races then they would count all the one man one woman marriages. In the case of same sex marriage, they will not count them for the same reason. The Federal level is not bound by the choices of individual states but rather by the federal law. It's actually an issue of 'blindness' and not discrimination. It's nothing more than complance to federal law.
chicago24 »

Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:15 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

Prior to 1967, there were 13 states that did not allow interracial marriages. Did the U.S. census not count ALL interracial marriages prior to 1967? It would be an interesting precident to find out.
hlerwin »

Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:53 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Daniel, I left a follow-up for you just now at the "Mass. Senate" site. Maybe we should move to a "fresher" column.
Daniel Paul »

Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:41 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

My response to igh's post is on the Exodus page along with questions for him. No need to waste space reposting everything.
igh »

Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:26 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

James 4:4 "Unfaithful people! Don't you know that to be the world's friend means to be God's enemy? If you want to be the world's friend, you make yourself God's enemy."

Now here is the site i came across doing research not to long back. Here is the link that some have been asking on the movie being made on the lie of David's and Johnathan's homosexual relationship. You see there are 'church's' that believe such blasphemy that its hard to comprehend, but its all to justify themselves. Read the whole page but start where the link takes you. Its a satanic church. They preach a false Gospel and lead many to damnation. Its my 'Job' if you will my Gift of the Spirit and my Ministry given unto me by God to expose all those who lead others astray, to stand against them, and yes Debate them. And Jesus did 'whoop' on them in yahoo and many other sites!

http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Resources&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2122#Pt3

this is the metropolitan 'church'

1Corinthians 3:16 Surely you know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you!
1Co 3:17 God will destroy anyone who destroys God's temple. For God's temple is holy, and you yourselves are his temple.
1Co 3:18 You should not fool yourself. If any of you think that you are wise by this world's standards, you should become a fool, in order to be really wise.
1Co 3:19 For what this world considers to be wisdom is nonsense in God's sight. As the scripture says, "God traps the wise in their cleverness";
1Co 3:20 and another scripture says, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are worthless."
Daniel Paul »

Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:02 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 1

Mike, I know it's annoying for igh to post lists and lists of scripture. It looks like my concordance. Still, perhaps in time he will learn to discuss. Having had 6 children myself I understand there are different maturity levels.

So, let's all stop flagging one another. If igh keeps turning threads into a concordance we will simply help him to expand his ability to discuss by asking him questions about what he posted and the significance of it.

As a teacher, I'm sure you have an understanding of what I am saying....

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