More United Methodists are throwing their support behind clergy in California who want to perform same-sex "marriages" despite the denomination's stance that homosexual practice is "incompatible with Christian teaching."
On Thursday, delegates from the Northeastern Jurisdiction Conference of the United Methodist Church - from Maine south to West Virginia - approved a resolution expressing respect for clergy in the California regional bodies who participate in wedding same-sex couples "as a matter of Christian conscience, spiritual discernment and prophetic witnessing," as reported by the United Methodist News Service.
The vote comes months after the United Methodist General Conference, the denomination's highest governing body that meets every four years, rejected changes to its constitution that would have liberalized the church's stance on homosexuality. In April, measures that would have removed the ban on noncelibate gay pastors and the statement that homosexual practice is "incompatible with Christian teaching" were voted down after emotional debates.
In the following months, however, regional conferences have approved measures supporting homosexuals after the California Supreme Court legalized gay "marriage" on May 15.
Methodists from the California-Pacific Annual Conference passed in June a resolution supporting same-sex "marriage" and encouraged congregations and pastors to welcome and embrace such families.
More recently, more than 80 retired United Methodist clergy from northern California have offered to conduct same-sex "marriage" ceremonies on behalf of clergy who cannot perform them.
The latest move by the Northeastern Jurisdiction Conference, which met July 13-18 in Harrisburg, Pa., for its 18th session, was applauded by pro-gay Methodists. Acknowledging that the United Methodist Book of Discipline – Church law – forbids churches and clergy from performing same-sex unions, the approved resolution also asks for lenient disciplinary action against clergy who disobey church law on the issue.
Laws can only be changed by the General Conference and this year, many have opposed changes and called Methodists to be faithful to biblical teaching.
Conservatives, meanwhile, observe a continuing liberalization and decline in the United Methodist Church.
Membership has dropped annually since 1968.
The Northeastern Jurisdiction Conference is one of five U.S. jurisdictions serving United Methodists. Delegates met this week to elect and assign bishops for the next four years among other business. This year's meeting was themed "Extreme Church: Extreme Expectations."
RSS
"the point is if operatable testes is not the determinate of receiving the word about one flesh man woman relationship then obvious when christ uses the word eunuch he is referring to a group not about that."
The word indicated someone who does not burn with passion - for either gender.
Your problem is that you do not want to accept the word of God for anything, you simply want to justify using a lack of logic.
Below is the UMAction press release on this story, thought it might be of interest to people.
Institute on Religion and Democracy
Thursday, July 24, 2008
Contact: Loralei Coyle 202-682-4131, 202-905-6852 cell, lcoyle@TheIRD.org
Radio Interviews: Jeff Walton, jwalton@TheIRD.org
California Same-Sex Unions Challenge United Methodists
“Will California church officials uphold United Methodism’s prohibition against homosexual nuptials?â€Â
â۠UM Action Executive Director Mark Tooley
Washington, DCâ€â€Following the court-ordered legalization of same-sex marriage in California, a United Methodist clergywoman has begun performing such marriages for her congregants. Such unions defy the official teaching of the United Methodist Church, which says homosexuality is "incompatible with Christian teaching" and bars pastors from performing same-sex wedding ceremonies or allowing them to take place in their churches.
According to the Wall Street Journal, Rev. Eileen Lindsay of Walnut Creek United Methodist Church performed marriages for three homosexual couples and signed their wedding licenses. She initially blessed the couples in her sanctuary and then later performed the ceremonies in a private backyard.
By violating the United Methodist Book of Disciplineâ€â€church lawâ€â€Lindsay places herself at risk of disciplinary actions that could ultimately result in her being defrocked.
The 7.9 million-member United Methodist Church officially prohibits any ceremonies that celebrate homosexual unions and involve United Methodist pastors or church buildings. United Methodism affirms God’s love and civil rights for all people, while also affirming marriage as the lifelong union of man and woman.
UM Action Executive Director Mark Tooley commented,
"The United Methodist Church is very clear in upholding the scriptural definition of marriage as man and woman. Will church officials in northern California uphold their ordination vows and the church’s law?
"If Rev. Lindsay believes that she is obligated to marry homosexual couples, then, for the sake of integrity, she should transfer to another denomination that permits same sex unions.
"UM Action urges California-Nevada Conference Bishop Beverly Shamana to uphold the United Methodist Discipline and historic Christian teachings about marriage. Either Rev. Lindsay should resign, or the bishop should initiate disciplinary procedures."
www.TheIRD.org
feetxxxl said:
"the point is if operatable testes is not the determinate of receiving the word about one flesh man woman relationship then obvious when christ uses the word eunuch he is referring to a group not about that."
why not 'GROUPS' 6 men 2 women or 2 men and a goat or 4 women and a man or beastiality, hey we can make the Scriptures into whatever we want them to be. woohoo anything goes baby just have to say 'its right with the spirit'
and why not premarital sex, after all gotta see if it will last right, dont want to marry the wrong person/animal and all that.
And look at me i got Scripture to back me up.
Lev 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
this Scripture is invalid since the old testament in now gone so marry a goat or a mule and be happy! hey marry the farmers daughter and the whole barnyard! who cares, be tolerant!
the point is if operatable testes is not the determinate of receiving the word about one flesh man woman relationship then obvious when christ uses the word eunuch he is referring to a group not about that.
I was discussing the term eunuchs. I did not mention anything about emotional attraction. I posted the following on a different thread, but it fits here.
According to the Bible, when homosexuals have sex together, they are harming themselves and each other.
1 Corinthians 6:18-20 (NASB)
Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
The word for immorality is transliterated porneia. This is the same word Christ used.
It has been translated as fornication, but includes all illicit sex.
Mt 5:32
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Mt 15:19
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.
Mt 19:9
And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.
Mk 7:21
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,
It refers to illicit sex - that which is prohibits in the Old Testament.
Definition:
1. illicit sexual intercourse
a. adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
b. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
c. sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,
2. metaph. the worship of idols
a. of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
It is specifically NOT adultery, which is transliterated moicao.
Additionally, because homosexual sex is a sin, you are causing your brother to stumble when you participate in it.
1 Cor 10:31-32
31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32 Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God
So, according to the Bible, when a homosexual has sex with another homosexual, he is hurting himself and his partner. If you love someone, you will not cause someone to sin.
first of all there have been many one flesh man woman flesh relationships that have been consummated in marriage where one pardner was without testes or was of the same nature because he had some form of spinal paralysis.
making it clear that the condition of an operable testes is not the motivating factor for consimating the relationship, but the intimate emotional, spiritual, and psychological feelings between the the 2 persons.
A eunuch was someone who was missing testicles. He could be a man who is castrated. Or he could be a man who is missing testicles by some process other than castration, such as crushing, or by atrophy due to illness, or one who was simply born without testicles. Such a eunuch would be, technically speaking, not castrated. But he would still be a eunuch. Such a person does not burn with sexual passion - for men or women.
Since there are many homosexuals who have had sex and reproduced, it is evident that at least some homosexuals can reproduce. Homosexual sex is when a man lies with a man or when a woman lies with a woman. God defined that as bad. God defined marriage as between a man and a woman.
In Matthew 19:3-12, Jesus quoted Genesis 2:24 as he defined marriage and at least part of its purpose. Also, Christ mentioned eunuchs in reference to abstaining from marriage between man and woman - the thing God created which allows people to "join together".
But even if God WAS talking about homosexuals when he mentioned eunuch (which I doubt), Isaiah 56:3-5 reads,
3 Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely exclude me from his people." And let not any eunuch complain, "I am only a dry tree." 4 For this is what the LORD says: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant- 5 to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off."
Note that the eunuch was to do what pleases God and hold fast to His covenant to get an everlasting name. So, again, belief, love, obedience are what was required for the eunuch to not have to worry about having an everlasting name - which is what is required to have eternal life. Such a person would have to refrain from sin, including homosexual sex, since Isaiah was written after the Law defined some of the things God hates.
One thing missingin this story is the fact that this group represents a very, very small percentage of Methodist pastors, plus the California-Pacific conference is literally dying as a conference, as is the NE jurisdiction. Methodism is growing in other areas, especially Africa and Asia, where Scripture is still used as the basis and the Book of Discipline is followed. It's interesting but those areas of the US where the clergy/conference/laity are embracing homosexuality are in serious decline. Every denomination which has embraced homosexuality is in decline (Anglican, UCC, etc.) Can there be a cause and effect here? I think so. You simply can't mock God and expect to get away with it. Those who try to use and manipulate Scripture to justify a sinful practice will eventually experience the error of their ways. That's been proven time and time again through history. Our choice, today as always, has been whether to listen to the Word of God or not. Methodists far and wide are beginning to come back to the Word of God, which is why even though we have a vocal and lively small minority within our denomination which supports, affirms and approves homosexuality, the vast, vast majority of Methodists do not. That's the real story. God Bless.
As I read this thread, I see a position hanging on a thread of confusion around the word "eunuch." Let's look at the Bible in context: what about all those other verses that say those who give in to their homosexual tendencies will not enter the kingdom of heaven? You just can't get by that.
To be fair, we all struggle with something, every one of us. It's just that we eventually realize that God's ways are best for us, whether we understand it at the time. For this same reason, a man and WOMAN leave father and mother and are joined to each other, and they become one. I don't see any other eunuch loopholes around that verse, friend.
The greatest thing about time is that soon all these Liberals will pass and be judged for their sins against God.
These 80 retired Ministers are extreme liberal relativists. Let us pray for this denomination to stick with what the New Testament clearly teaches about marriage. Between one man and one woman.
Homosexual actions are disordered.
wikipedia
A eunuch (IPA: /ˈjuËÂ.nÉâ„¢k/) is a castrated man, in particular one castrated early enough to have major hormonal consequences; the term usually refers to those castrated in order to perform a specific social function, as was common in many societies of the past. The earliest records for intentional castration to produce eunuchs are from the Sumerian city of Lagash in the twenty first century BC.[citation needed] Over the millennia since, they have performed a wide variety of functions in many different cultures such as courtiers or equivalent domestics, treble singers, religious specialists, government officials, military commanders, and guardians of women or harem servants. In some translations of ancient texts, individuals identified as eunuchs seem to include men who were impotent with women, those we would now call transgender or homosexual, and those who were simply celibate.
The word translated eunuch in Mat 19:11-12 is the Greek word "eunouchos" and it means one who has been castrated, one who is physically unable to have children or one who abstains from marriage to avoid having children. It has absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality.
celibacy for god is an annointing from heaven.
as i said matt 19 is a spirit teaching for all time, not just for the time christ gave it. so an euneuch is one who is not given the word of bonding with the opposite sex.
the question is..... are they given another word. as identified by the fruit of same sex bonding("you will recognize them by their fruit") and because they bond in the same spirit as heterosexuals and because they have the same capacity to embrace the fruit of the spirit in their relationship as heterosexuals, the spirit witness is.......... that they are given another word...../;........to bond with the same sex.
we know john4 "the true worshippers will worship in spirit and truth" and paul's directive that we are" led by the spirit"
all truth will be identified by the spirit associated of and in that truth.
Translation is God's Word Bible
feetxxxl, a eunuch cannot have intercourse, for whatever reason and including castration.
Now there are those who can have intercourse but have decided that they will be celebate and not marry for God , to devote themselves to him. Like Paul did. I know some will say thats wrong , but from what i read in the Scriptures paul was celebate for God.
1Co 7:7 I would like everyone to be like me. However, each person has a special gift from God, and these gifts vary from person to person.
1Corinthians 7:8 "I say to those who are not married, especially to widows: It is good for you to stay single like me."
the eneuch for the kingdom is something received thru the holy spirit, rather than bonding with another human they instead bond with the holy spirit. it is a gift from heaven.
"euneuch" would be someone who was incapable of bonding with the opposite sex. celibate would someone who chose to obtain from bonding, something they could naturally do and were capable of doing.
good for these people. it goes to show how more and more our country is moving away from discrimination and intolerance and more towards broad acceptance.
what translation are you using?
mattew 19:11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[c]because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."(niv)
feetxxl what you say?? doesnt make sense.
first it is a gift from God to be Celebate for him, Matthew 19:11
Second those chosen to receive this Gift do so for the Kingdom of God. Matthew 19:12
Matthew 19:8 Jesus answered them, "Moses allowed you to divorce your wives because you're heartless. It was never this way in the beginning.
Mat 19:9 I can guarantee that whoever divorces his wife for any reason other than her unfaithfulness is committing adultery if he marries another woman."
Mat 19:10 The disciples said to him, "If that is the only reason a man can use to divorce his wife, it's better not to get married."
Mat 19:11 He answered them, "Not everyone can do what you suggest. Only those who have that gift can.
Mat 19:12 For example, some men are celibate because they were born that way. Others are celibate because they were castrated. Still others have decided to be celibate because of the kingdom of heaven. If anyone can do what you've suggested, then he should do it."
this is not a gay /heterosexual thing, it is a God thing. A gift to those who can do it, for the Kingdom of God.
A GIFT A GIFT FOR GOD, and that is such a wonderful thing feetxxl, to serve such a wonderful God in Spirit and in Truth.
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
for some reason the edited version was not printed
matthew 19:11-12 gave dispensation for those not heterosexual.
those who are anti-gay have chosen this to mean ONLY those without functionioning sex organs. but they have no proof for this exclusive understanding. just because spirit says one thing is true, does that exclude something of a different form, that is of the same spirit?
this could include anyone born who was without an incination to bond with the opposite sex, but instead the same sex.
in addition the verses say that society could have caused this. in other words this could have resulted from some nature of society. here again why would this be limited to only the castrated? doesnt society acknowledge emotional and psycological castration as well. (and in regards also to adultery, emotional and psychologial adultery as well as sexual adultery.)
bonding being a one flesh relationship between adults motivated by mutual love, attraction, respect, trust, and devotion for a committed shared life together.
scripture is always pointing to spirit........... the spirit of and in our relationships. that we in ourselves, and in our relationships with others exude the fruit of the spirit of gal 5
if jesus's teachings were only for a particular time, then "euneuch" would stand for the understanding of that day. however jesus's teaching is for all time which means that "euneuch" will have multiple meanings that identify multiple spirit conditions..........................one of those being those who have been attacted to bond with the same sex since early childhood.
since we are talking about bonding between 2 adults(those having the maturity to make the unilateral decision to bond), it automatically excludes relationships that are without this essence.
matthew 19:11-12 gave dispensation for those not heterosexual.
those who are anti-gay have chosen this to mean ONLY those without functionioning sex organs. but they have no proof for this exclusive understanding. just because spirit says one thing is true, does that exclude something of a different form that is of the same spirit. when this could be include anyone born who was without an incination to bond with the opposite sex, but instead the same sex.
in addition the verses say that society could have caused this. in other words this could have resulted from trauma of some nature.
bonding being a one flesh relationship between adults motivated by mutual love, attraction, respect, trust, and devotion for a committed shared life together.
scripture always pointing to spirit. the spirit of our relationships. that our relationships exude the fruit of the spirit of gal 5
....despite the denomination's stance that homosexual practice is "incompatible with Christian teaching"....what kind of hypocrisy is this? Methodists, it is fine for you to leave the denomination that no longer follows the moral guidelines you believe in. You probably would do well to move out of the state as well, before worse things happen.
Jesus specifically said marriage is between a man and a woman. End of story.
I'm not Methodist, but I still recommend that we pray for all in the body of Christ who are Methodist. Satan attacks them as much as us and if he can further divide the body of Christ, he certainly will. Lord Jesus, protect us.
"Sorry my friend; your understanding is NOT scripturally sound at all; there is no scriptural justification for same sex unions. If fornication and adultery are not acceptable in Godâ??s eyes, do you really believe that same sex unions are acceptable? Consider the following passages:"
if fornification is to mean all sex outside of marriage............................gay couples in my church marry.
what does adultery, the violation of an oath to another, have to with homosexual married couples.
the fact that there is so much difficulty in directly addressing the question of how homosexual marriage or homosexuality comes against loving ones neighbor as oneself, speaks volumes that neither comes against the spirit of christ.
what also speaks volumes is the degree of judgement and condemnation that is required for the support of the anti-gay position. without it, there is no position.
luke 6:36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. 37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
The first Adam shows us the proper married life: Man and woman.
The second Adam shows us the proper unmarried life: No sexual activity of any kind.
God never gave us a third Adam to demonstrate the proper homosexual union or relationship. It is an abomination.
Why perish? "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Mt 3:2).
James 4:4 "Unfaithful people! Don't you know that to be the world's friend means to be God's enemy? If you want to be the world's friend, you make yourself God's enemy."
Now here is the site i came across doing research not to long back. Here is the link that some have been asking on the movie being made on the lie of David's and Johnathan's homosexual relationship. You see there are 'church's' that believe such blasphemy that its hard to comprehend, but its all to justify themselves. Read the whole page but start where the link takes you. Its a satanic church. They preach a false Gospel and lead many to damnation. Its my 'Job' if you will my Gift of the Spirit and my Ministry given unto me by God to expose all those who lead others astray, to stand against them, and yes Debate them. And Jesus did 'whoop' on them in yahoo and many other sites!
http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Resources&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2122#Pt3
this is the metropolitan 'church'
1Corinthians 3:16 Surely you know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you!
1Co 3:17 God will destroy anyone who destroys God's temple. For God's temple is holy, and you yourselves are his temple.
1Co 3:18 You should not fool yourself. If any of you think that you are wise by this world's standards, you should become a fool, in order to be really wise.
1Co 3:19 For what this world considers to be wisdom is nonsense in God's sight. As the scripture says, "God traps the wise in their cleverness";
1Co 3:20 and another scripture says, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are worthless."
Feet,
Sorry my friend; your understanding is NOT scripturally sound at all; there is no scriptural justification for same sex unions. If fornication and adultery are not acceptable in God’s eyes, do you really believe that same sex unions are acceptable? Consider the following passages:
Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand . . . 1Corinthians 10:8.
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly . . . Romans 1:27
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness. . . Galatians 5:19.
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind . . . 1Corinthians 6:9.
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind . . . 1Timothy 1:10.
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire . . . Jude 1:7.
For those who name the name of Christ (call themselves Christians) that are participating in any of these things; I do not condemn them but call them to repentance.
i can see where you would get that from an old covenant approach to the law.............but not the new.
under the new we are led by our witness of spirit, romans 1 :20 saying that god has given us the capacity to see what is of him and not of him..........so that no man "has an excuse"
and that all law under the new covenant is summed up in that commandment of love.
jesus's own teaching "we would recognize them from their fruit(fruit of the spirit)
and paul in galation5 that all things of the sin nature are obvious, by their own essence, the essence of the spirit they are about, show how they come against the fruit of the spirit.
To say that there is no Scriptual reason to oppose same sex marriage, Is to reject every passage of Scripture on the subject in the Bible.
To say that a man with a man, and a woman with a woman is the same type of love as a man and a woman enjoy is to shake a fist in the face of God.
I predict that the United Methodist, as a Denomination will drop so far into Apostasy that in the near future it will cease to exist.
reedit......my apologies
rather than cling to an interpretation of the law that is without reason,witness, and scriptural explanation. those in california have chosen to answer the question concerning christ's commandments of the new covenant in him. mainly....................."how does homosexuality or homosexual marriage come against loving ones neighbor as oneself "
this commandment being the summation of all the law. the law whose fulfillment itself, is love.
they have found their answer to be "IT DOESNT!"
they have found that homosexuality and homosexual marriage equal to heterosexuality and heterosexual marriage. that in being either or engaging in either, all are equally capable of fulfilling that commandment of love.
i am not trying to convince anyone...........that is for the holy spirit. i am merely offering another understanding that is scripturally sound, as well as of witness and of reason.
feetxxl,
Your not convincing anyone who has any knowledge of scripture.
United Methodists need prayer as they slip into apostasy.Praise for our LORD & MASTER JESUS CHRIST
rather than cling to an interpretation of the law that is without reason,witness, and scriptural explanation. those in california have chosen to answer the question concerning christ's commandments of the new covenant in him. mainly....................."how does homosexuality or homosexual marriage come against loving ones neighbor as oneself as oneself"
this commandment being the summation of all the law. the law whose fulfillment itself, is love.
they have found their answer to be "IT DOESNT!"
they have found, that in essence, both, just like heterosexuality and heterosexual marriage, have the same equal capacity to be a fulfillment of that commandment.
"Conservatives, meanwhile, observe a continuing liberalization and decline in the United Methodist Church."
This apostacy (falling away) is spreading throughout the globe; much prayer. "Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light" - Ephesians 5:14.