CANTERBURY, England – The head of the Anglican church in Sudan said on Tuesday that unity could be restored to the troubled Anglican Communion only when the openly gay Bishop Gene Robinson resigns or confesses he has "made a mistake" in embracing homosexuality.
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(Photo: AP Images / Sang Tan)Gene Robinson, center, openly gay bishop of New Hampshire, United States, acknowledges the applause from the congregation during a Sunday service at St Stephen's Field in Canterbury, England, Sunday, July 20, 2008. The service is held, as an alternative to the Lambeth Conference's Sunday service held at Canterbury Cathedral earlier, to celebrate the gifts of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Christians in the Anglican Communion.
The Most Rev. Dr. Daniel Deng Bul told reporters at the Lambeth Conference, the once-a-decade gathering of Anglican bishops, that Robinson “should resign for the sake of the Church.”
“We consider him as a human being. We are not throwing him away. But he is supposed to resign to allow the Church to be united,” he said. “The norms of the Anglican Communion have been violated.”
He added that those involved with Robinson's consecration also had to confess.
"We as Christians always forgive one another and confess whenever we make mistakes. If they could do that that would help the Anglican world."
Just under a quarter of Communion's bishops have boycotted the Conference in protest of the attendance of pro-gay clergy. The absent bishops, largely conservative church leaders from the Global South, held an alternative summit in Jerusalem last month, the Global Anglican Future Conference (GAFCON).
“I think there is already a breakdown of the Anglican Communion,” the Sudanese archbishop said. “Three hundred bishops have stayed away from this conference because of Gene Robinson. Shouldn’t Gene Robinson resign to allow the 300 bishops to come back to the house?”
In an official statement issued earlier on Tuesday, the Episcopal Church of Sudan said that it could not accept church leaders who practice contrary to the biblical teaching on sexuality.
The Archbishop reaffirmed that position to reporters, saying: "God is not making a mistake creating Adam and Eve. He would have created two Adams if he wanted. But we are saying now God is wrong in creating the different sex. That is a concern.”
Conservative leaders had called for a "heartfelt repentance" and "genuine change" from the U.S. Epsicopal Church in the years following the 2003 consecration of Robinson. Last September, The Episcopal Church offered to exercise restraint by not consenting to the consecration of openly gay candidates, while still committing to the rights of gays and lesbians and their full inclusion. Many conservatives were disappointed and saw no change in the U.S. church's position.
Still, the Sudanese Archbishop stressed that he and other conservative leaders in the Global South wanted the Anglican Communion to remain united.
“I am here to say let the Anglican world be united. That is my position. I am calling even GAFCON to come back to the Anglican world.”
He also warned that the ordination of homosexual clergy and blessing of same-sex couples in the U.S. Episcopal Church had damaged the standing of the Bible and Christians in majority-Muslim countries.
“We are called infidels by the Islamic world … It will give them an upper hand even to kill our people,” he said.
More than 600 bishops have gathered at the University of Kent in Canterbury for the Lambeth Conference. The meeting will run until August 3 and cover a range of issues, including social justice, the environment, human sexuality and the draft Anglican Covenant.
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Oh wait, sorry, didn't read the article properly: Rev. Dr. Daniel Deng Bul is the orthodox clergyman.
Robinson is aka. Broke Back Rob
Mike2685,
"Shameful and deplorable? HA! I bet someone could say the same about yours if they were to only focus on your shortcomings."
That may be, but I do not rationalize my shortcomings. Rather, I acknowledge them and repent of them.
The Most Rev. Dr. Daniel Deng Bul aka. 'Broke Back Gary'
Lol.
Shameful and deplorable? HA! I bet someone could say the same about yours if they were to only focus on your shortcomings.
Mike2685,
"I'm well aware of what scripture says, regardless, its clear you don't know many gay people of you're walking around putting the blanket statement of perverse on us."
If you are aware of what scripture says, then your gripe is with Jesus, Paul, and the church in general - not me in particular. As for me clearly not knowing many gay people... how many do I need to know? Actually, I've known several who I knew quite well; a good friend of mine from college was gay; one of my uncles was gay. And while they are wonderful, caring people, their homosexual lifestyle was shameful and deplorable.
Mike,
No one is arguing whether it is a pleasant thing or not. We are simply stating it is a sin according to God and you hurt yourself, your partner, and possibly others. To walk in a lifestyle of sin is to walk in darkness and not light.
Yes, but for anyone who truly knows and loves someone who is gay (i.e. my parents) they come to see that there is nothing bad about my relationship, although they once thought so because they didn't know anyone who is gay. Something like alcoholism or pedophilia you know is bad because you can see that damage it does to the person you love, but my family can only see love growing between my partner and I.
Mike, just because someone recognizes an action as bad does not mean that person does not know or love people who do that action.
I'm well aware of what scripture says, regardless, its clear you don't know many gay people of you're walking around putting the blanket statement of perverse on us.
Mike 2685,
Scripture calls homosexual behavior as acts against nature, shameful lusts, shameless acts, perversity, etc; i.e., gravely depraved.
mike2685,
"I always love the wording "gravely depraved." It makes gays sound like a bunch of monsters that go around sucking the life out of the people they sleep with."
Only if you don't understand what 'grave' and 'depraved' mean. Nevertheless, that is what homosexual acts are. Of course, this does not preclude God's immense love for you, or how he longs for you to come to him with godly sorrow which leads to repentance... to come in response to his gracious invitation in heartfelt faith, pleading the blood of His Son in atonement for your sins. God loves you and desires that you come to the knowledge of the truth.
I always love the wording "gravely depraved." It makes gays sound like a bunch of monsters that go around sucking the life out of the people they sleep with.
Mike2685,
As a Catholic, you are bound by sacred scripture and apostolic tradition as presented to you by the Catholic Church, and the Catholic Church clearly and unambiguously teaches that homosexual acts are gravely depraved and can in no way ever be approved. So regardless of whether you read the scriptures yourself or your priest reads it to you during the Mass, the result is the same.
As for Jesus coming down to shake you one way or the other, He already has. When teaching on the issue of marriage to His disciples, He states, "that God made them at the beginning made them MALE and FEMALE, and for this reason, a MAN shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his WIFE, and the two shall become one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, let no man separate."
Why was my post from this morning flagged?
James,
Thanks for that good summary of what I was saying.
believer,
I agree with you. which drives wbmoores argument even further that sexual sins does eventually cause harm to individuals even the innocent.
james, I agree that all sexual diseases are ultimately a result of sin and you're right about the sin being committed outside of one's marriage vows or before marriage, but there are some people who may obtain one of these diseases as a result of the sexual sin of someone else. And sadly in many cases they might not even know they have it and may inadvertently pass it on to their spouse.
any type sex transmitted dieseases are penalty for not behaving in which God said no sex before marriage. This goes for both sexes. If both people only had sex with their marriage partner no sex disease would be transmitted, except by transfusion or drug use
"if one lives by three commandments he is being led by the spirit......the spirit of love, love that is god.
why then the need for the ten..............except as paul says for "conscious."
the holy spirit drives your conscious...therefore the old law still applies to our behaviour, if one can perfect love (which we can't because of sinful nature) yes all commandments would be fulfilled that is why Christ emphasized these.
"would you have us go back to the old relationship to the written code of the old covenant, or instead embracing the new led by love and under grace."
As said before the new law simply means to believe in Christ to take our sins upon himself because we can not fulfill the laws ourselves, not that we are no longer to try. Trying is what brings us to santification or becoming like Christ.
"but if you actively follow the three commandments of love of god, neighbor, self, and one another as christ loved us, you not only follow the law, you fulfill it as well. fulfillment of the law being love"
you would be right, but then I would have to call you Christ, because He is the only one who perfected Love.. I can not and you can not, that is why the new law exist. Remember it was asked which of the commandments was greater, not which ones are the only ones I should follow. Christ pointed to the Love commandments because if you could keep these then the others would also be kept for if you love someone you will not murder them, you would not committ adultry, you would not covet if you love yourself the way god made you life...etc
Mike,
"I was born and raised Catholic, and as you might know, Catholics kind of rely on the priest who reads from teh Gospel then gives a homily to get their fill of the Bible, so I would venture that Catholics are the least Biblically versed of all Christians."
Not sure what the point of this statement is... as a Catholic, you are bound by the sacred scriptures and apostolic tradition as presented and taught to you by the Catholic Church. And the Catholic Church unequivocally teaches that homosexual acts are gravely wrong and can never be approved. Similarly, marriage is a sacrament and is between one man and one woman. So regardless of whether you read the scriptures for yourself or the priest reads it to you, the result is the same. As for you waiting for Jesus to come down and shake you one way or the other - He's already done that. He has stated that marriage is between a man and a woman when He addressed the issue of marriage with his disciples - "that God who made them at the beginning made them MALE and FEMALE, and for this reason, a MAN shall leave is father and mother and cleave to his WIFE, and the two shall become one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined, let no man separate."
believer - check this world net daily article out. I think you will find it interesting:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=39253
thanks believer for filling the gap - I had to make a nug.. oopps- I mean I been getting tied up .
Mike2685, yes we teach them to wear seat belts, but we also teach them that even wearing seatbelts won't always protect you if you drive wrecklessly or speed. What they are being told is since we can't trust you not to have sex before you get married please use a condom. What they don't tell them in many cases is that there are a number of STDs like genital herpes that a condom can not protect you and that they are not 100% protection against either pregnancy or the STDs they are supposed to protect you from.
Mike2685, God promised to never again destroy the world by flood, but unless you know a passage I'm not aware of, He never said anything about disease not being a consequence for sinful behavior. But on the other hand we can't assume that disease is always the consequence of a person's sinful behavior. But all disease is the consequence of the sinful world we live in.
mike2685 and hlerwin, recently a well known homosexual rights advocate, I did not catch his name so I hope you'll trust me on this one, came out at a meeting and said that although around the world AIDS/HIV is not a gay problem, here in the USA it is considering that 72% of the cases involve gay men. I'm not saying it is a punishment or judgement from God but it is a statistic and fact that cannot be ignored.
mike- I think your Catholic background is showing and your scripture is not being referenced. Would you share with us the scripture that states: "God's covenant promised that never again would he send a plague or anything of the sort to wipe out sinners?!"
Also, no one knows WHERE Aids originated, so ....
Not to mention, God's covenant promised that never again would he send a plague or anything of the sort to wipe out sinners, so it could not come from him as a punishment.
Not how it became known, that was not my question. Of course it became known in the 80's when many gay men contracted the disease, but do you believe it was created by God to be a punishment for sinning? It did not BEGIN with gay men, and it was never isolated to only gay men. I would not deny that the gay community, especially in the US, has not done what it needs to protect itself, but again, you cannot call this a punishment for gays, or else it would have started and been contained to the gay community.
mike-
How it became known as a "gay disease" is quite simple: It predominantly occurs among gay cultures. Are you denying this?
Rolln, I'm not taking it personally, I'm trying to sort this through: In plain english, do you believe AIDS is a gay punishment, and/or do you believe gays are to blame for AIDS?
Rolln, I hope my children will not have sex until they're committed to someone they love, i really do. That is something most parents tell their children. They also tell their children not to speed or drive wrecklessly, but thats not going to stop them, and so we buy our children cars with seat belts, airbags, and the best crash ratings they can get. Telling kids not to have sex isn't going to always work either, and so we teach them about condoms so they can protect themselves, just as we teach them to use seatbelts to protect themselves.
Gay issue or not is irreverent. Now Mike you have a tendency for taking posts personally, so please don't. We're not talking about you and your partner specifically.
If you think it through logically, it makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, in a fallen and unrepentant world it's not possible. So therefore we all have to live with the diseases handed to us.
But that makes it sounds like a gay issue, and its not. My partner and I can have anal sex and be perfectly healthy, because we are practicing it in a safe MONOGAMOUS way. The problem is mainly promiscuity, drug use, and unclean blood going around. To say it would go away sheerly from monogamy is foolish, as it didn't start as a sexual disease.
As an agenda from Planned Parenthood (this evil organization) safe sex is the most laughable piece of crock out there. It's a farce - period. For the Christian it's unthinkable. If you follow the will of God, there's no need for supposed "safe sex". I can't even imagine enjoying God's creation of sex if I were to ever have to use "safe sex" practices for God's sake. What a lifestyle and a JOKE!
mike-
I never presume God. Or I at least try not to do this. God works in ways we may never understand.
Some get AIDS some don't. When we say "their due penalty" we're simply stating that their lifestyle alone will, by it's very nature, create problems. I've said this before, gay sex is unhealthy. Period.
We do know this however, AIDS/HIV is the only disease that would die out if everyone would be monogamous.
Oooppss. Sorry mike, I didn't mean to pull the "cloth" from out from under you there. One of the disadvantages of the "delete" function.
mike and herlwin-
I would have to say that thepenitent "has" you guys. Implying is going to make you look bad. I know that you're fervent to protect your side, but you are wrong here.
I have worked in the health care field in a major city for several years during the "peak" times of AIDS/HIV and remember handing grocery bags of meds to victims of the disease - most WERE gay and yes there were innocent victims. One of those happened to be a close friend - nurse who was pricked. Though we will get heated during this debate/discussion, as a Christian, and as a friend to some of those gay victims, I still held to what scripture says: "they received in themselves their due penalty" in a worldly sense, but in a spiritual sense I was able to witness a few come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
rolln, you cannot, logically, say gays get aids as a punishments. Either all gays would then get AIDS, or no straights would get it. Penitent is foolish, I hope you won't join his ranks and twist the Bible this way
suggest and imply mean the exact same thing penitent...am I the one embarrassing myself, or are you just grasping at straws to try and come out on top of someone you see as being underneath you?
Oh, so now I've "implied" it. How many times you gonna change your story? Your embarrassing yourself.
=0 Who told you about Homo 101, that was supposed to be a secret...those gays and coming out about everything, I'll tell ya...
thepenitent, really? You truly believe yourself to be Christian the way you are carrying on? You didn't say it was only a gay thing, but you implied it. When you say gays have it within themselves, but say nothing about the thousands of others who have HIV, you're kind of putting words in your mouth without anyone else having to.
I never said "only" gays get it. Typical gay tactic, putting words in someones mouth and bashing them for what they didn't say. They must teach that in Homo 101
Of course, thepenitent may be delusional enough to think that that unbaptised baby went to Hell anyway. Some people think (or used to think) that way.
Mike, I guess thepenitent thinks that HIV-pos dead baby had to answer for 6 months of miserable living (AND 6 months of sin).
...its not a penalty only gays receive, it is something anyone can get, through unsafe sex, through blood transfusions, through trying to save someone's life when there are bodily fluids present without gloves...how shameful of you to speak of it as only a gay penalty.
That doesn't change the fact it is a penalty gays receive in themselves. Repent.
thepenitent, you might be interested to know, AIDS did not start with gay men at all, nor does it afflict only gay men. To suggest that AIDS is "the gay cancer" as it was so nicely called in the 80's is absurd and unscientific.
And gluttony is a sin that shows! O, Lord.........
thepenitent - I like you more and more and I think you and I are on the same channel from what I've read of your posts.
AIDS and now it's going to be an incredible increase of heart disease from trying to eat all the burgers and fries from McDonalds to make up for the boycotters. May the Lord have mercy!
I always figured Paul was referring to AIDS (prophecy)when he said gay males would "receive IN THEMSELVES due penalty for their perversion" (Romans 1:27)
I have not met many Gays in my life, but the ones I knew I liked, both were named David and both died from AIDS, and I believe that the god of this world who kills steals and destroys is behind homosexuality, and therefore it is wrong. Love, like Jesus love is not a sexual thing, and don't let those addicted to sin cheapen the cross.
It won't happen. Public (and church membership) opinion is going the other way. The Church of England, by the way, has been in turmoil like this before. From the time it chose to take the via media (middle way) between Catholic and Prostestant worship, there have been tensions. The church will survive this squabble.
I hope that Christian Churches should come out with a new Creed with a firm stand on man-woman traditional family and non-gay clergy.
Luke 23:38 " And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
Luke 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
The thief knew he was going under the Judgment of God for his Crimes or sins, he repented on the spot out of fear, he knew to die in his sins would bring God's feirce wrath upon his head! The other thief well he didnt fear God and we know what is to happen with him! Fear also means to Reverence God, when you stand before a King you bow and submit to his will,and Honor him to rebel against his Authority is to bring his Righteous wrath upon you, and will be at his Throne of Justice to be sentenced, to be punished, yes to Fear God is to know that he is Sovereign, holds all Authority and Power. To rebel means to suffer his Wrath and Just punishment will be meeted out.
Deu 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecclesiates 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
This is a Christian news site, you won't find any muslim pen pals here. BUT, if you want to learn about the ONLY true path to salvation, Jesus Christ, you came to the right place.
The first words Jesus preached were "repent". One who continues in unrepentent sin is most definitely not saved. Jesus described this type in Matt 7:21-23. His last words to them will be, "I never knew you, depart from me you workers of lawlessness."
feetxxxl, you say that you have been saved. No offense intended but I just don't see it. Perhaps you can share your testimony on how you became born-again and how your life changed after you received Jesus as Savior and Lord.
feetxxxl
1) Jesus is the same in the NT as He was in the OT. He is the same today and will be the same tomorrow.
Hebrews 13:8 - "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."
2) God says that gay sex is an abomination. It was true in the OT, it was true in the NT, it is true today, and will be tomorrow.
Leviticus 18:22 - "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
3) God's Word says that all who practice gay sex will not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
4) God's Word says that we are saved by grace through faith and not of works.
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
5) God says that when we become born-again by the spirit of God that He give us a new nature created in righteousness and true holiness. We are to let that new nature shine forth in our lives.
Ephesians 4:24 - "And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."
1 Thessalonians 4:7 - "For God hath not called us unto uncleaness, but unto holiness."
continued
feetxxxl - continued
6) We live under grace but we are not to continue to live in sin.
Romans 5:21 - "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."
Romans 6:12 - "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."
7) Just because we live under grace and are free from the law doesn't mean that we should continue to live in sin.
Romans 6:14-15
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
8) Yield yourself to sin and you shall die. Yield yourself to righteousness which results in holiness and in the end eternal life.
Romans 6:16,19,22
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Hebrews 12:14 - "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord."
9)God will wipe your name out of the book of life if you do not repent from your sins, turn to God and live for Him.
Jesus speaking,
Luke 13:3 - "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
Exodus 32:33 - "The LORD replied to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book."
Revelation 3:4-5
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Hear the word of the Lord feetxxl. Repent or you will perish.
To claim homosexual sex is not sin it to disagree with the word of God. It is walking in darkness.
1 John 1:5-10
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
To live a life of sin is not living a life of someone who believes what Christ said. It is doing that which the devil convinces people is good.
1 John 3:7-10
7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
Feet,
lets look at the verse you brought up, using the NASB:
2 Cor 7:10 For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a REPENTANCE without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.
Sorrow from God should produce REPENTANCE - CHANGE!
John 5:21-23
21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
all judgement has been entrusted to the son.
my understanding has always been to stand on ephesians 2:8-9 we are saved by grace thru faith,it is not of ourselves, this is a gift of god, it is not by works lest anyone should boast.
in other words we are not saved by anything we do or dont do. we are saved by what christ did on the cross. so its not if i get it right or not. its faith in christ and his sacrifice.............that saves me...............period.
after all the terrible things done in history...........and these are just the things we know historically not personnally. who is there that we can say got it perfectly right.
the other thing is 2cor7-10 that it is worldly guilt that leads to death, but it is godly sorrow that BRINGS one to repentance that LEADS to salvation AND LEAVES NO REGRET.
it is where i find godly sorrow that leaves no regret that i know im being touched by the holy spirit. .............anything else ................ i have found not to be of the holy spirit
Feet, we've had this conversation. Homosexual sex is a sin against the Spirit of God and against the spirit of love.
According to the Bible, when homosexuals have sex together, they are harming themselves.
1 Corinthians 6:18-20 (NASB)
Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
The word for immorality is transliterated porneia. This is the same word Christ used.
It has been translated as fornication, but includes all illicit sex.
Mt 5:32 but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Mt 15:19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.
Mt 19:9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.
Mk 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,
It refers to illicit sex - that which is prohibits in the Old Testament.
Definition:
1. illicit sexual intercourse
a. adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
b. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
c. sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,
2. metaph. the worship of idols
a. of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
It is specifically NOT adultery, which is transliterated moicao.
Additionally, because homosexual sex is a sin, you are causing your brother to stumble when you participate in it.
1 Cor 10:31-32
31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32 Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God
So, according to the Bible, when a homosexual has sex with another homosexual, he is hurting himself and his partner. If you love someone, you will not cause someone to sin.
feetxxxl do you believe in the Judgment of God, When he shall judge in the second death and send those not written in the book of Life to the Lake of Fire?
Do you fear God?
Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Im scared to death of being led astray, i dont want to fall under the condemnation, the lake of fire isnt someplace you can leave, its permanent punishment from God. God does this and it is Righteous. God is Loving, and also he loves Justice.
Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
if one lives by three commandments he is being led by the spirit......the spirit of love, love that is god.
why then the need for the ten..............except as paul says for "conscious."
would you have us go back to the old relationship to the written code of the old covenant, or instead embracing the new led by love and under grace.
if david had loved his neighbor as himself he would have never stepped into what he did with bathsheba.
" It does not negate us from moral laws or directives(teachings) in the old testament. If that was the case the ten commandments would be history."
why the emphasis about following the law, from which receive no righteousness.
paul said the law was now for conscious, beiing conscious of loving ones neighbor as oneself, the summation of all the law.
but if you actively follow the three commandments of love of god, neighbor, self, and one another as christ loved us, you not only follow the law, you fulfill it as well. fulfillment of the law being love.
also 1cor13 says anything done without love is nothing and gains nothing............this includes obedience and faith.
there are an infinite number of reasons to follow the law, that may gain nothing. there is only one that embraces fulfillment...........that is thru love of the 3 commandments
Thank God that the Bishop of Sudan had the conviction
and backbone to tell the "Gay Bishop", either to confess
or resign from his post. If the Bishop has a biological problem or an affinity in his gay lifestyle, let him do so.
But he must get out from the post as a Bishop which is
defaming his job as a whole on the one hand, and calling
God as a fool for creating Adam and Eve. Until the
Anglican leadership takes firm stand on right and wrong
based on the word of God, the very foundation of the
church is shaken, and the Anglican church will be
disjoined in course of time. If God did't show any
mercy to the city of Sodom, then God is not going to
show any special favor to the Anglican Church for
entertaining a sacrilegious Gay Bishops to conduct sacraments in the Church. Gays were conducting parades
in different cities of the world, and later on Gay Bishops will be leading those parades in those cities,
and that day, God will pour down fire and brimstone from
heaven.
Actually, IGH - you may be on the shallow end of the PC pool. It may read something like this:
This just in from the A.P.
"Your government just announced all non-gay supporting people must repent or be sent to camps. "This is a sad day that our government must make such an proclamation but for the sake of unity and tolerance it must be so, the bigots must be purged from amongst us." our government was quoted as saying.
more news at ten. ty and have a pleasant evening. This snipet courtesy of the People for the New way.
This just in from the A.P.
"Archbishop of Canterberry Rowan Williams just announced all non-gay supporting bishops must repent or resign. "This is a sad day that i must make such an proclamation but for the sake of unity and tolerance it must be so, the bigots must be purged from amongst us." bishop williams was quoted as saying.
more news at ten. ty and have a pleasant evening. This snipet courtesy of the People for the New way.
dont laugh and dont scorn it, it is coming soon, look how much influence they have now. It is really going to happen. As ripley used to say, "believe it or not"
By the way, where does it say in the Word that unity should be maintained at the cost of holiness and righteousness?
Who was that masked man? The Most Rev. Dr. Daniel Deng Bul or The Most Rev. Dr. Daniel Bul Deng?
So anyways, Mike - as I sip on my V-8 juice...
To say that you have some insurmountable sin is a cop-out. Your "in my shoes" thing doesn't fly. We all cave, but never stop holding to Truth. So now - as you go about proclaiming your version of Christianity - you not only have the weight of your sexual sin, you now have to deal with the vast majority of Christians that say you're NOT a Christian - now that is a burden. I reckon you'd be best off with a ministry like Exodus to help you through in loving support and you'd be posting like the rest of us pious pompous puff bags - right?
"Gay Bishop Must Resign or Confess, Says Sudan Church Head"
Sounds pretty Biblical to me...
Haha, I hear you on that one. I heard a news report that said red wine contains a nutrient good for your heart, but you would have to drink multiple bottles of it a day for it to actually have an effect....well, let's call it a goal :) (joking, joking)
" Thank God for the gift of Ghirardelli Double Chocolate Brownies"
I have a thing for brownies Mike now you have my mouth watering....my wife would probably say my desire is sinful.. I could eat two batches full if my wife wouldn't stop me
0.0000001% at least, uh?
Who gives a rip, pass me enough to get to 100% nutritious pleeezzz!! LOL
Rolln, God works with everyone, where they are, and I know God is working with me the way he wants, on his terms.
That being said, something to take your mind off chicken nuggets: Thank God for the gift of Ghirardelli Double Chocolate Brownies, which happen to be baking in my oven right now (chocolate is at least .0001% good for you, there's nutrients buried in there somewhere...I'm not sure chicken mcnuggets can even say that)
Mike-
I will continue to pray for you. We all have our struggles with sin(s), so to say that you'd love for us to be in your shoes is somehow stating that we can't feel your pain which in turn is stating that somehow you have some insurmountable sin to overcome and therefore it's beyond God which in turn is a godless view because we all know that God is God of the insurmountable - right?
You have unfortunately given up the battle and caved rather than hold to what's true.
If I gave into my "need" for McDonald's chicken nuggets every time, I'd definitely be dead in a month! However, I keep my body in check (Paul's saying; not mine), in order for me to maintain my temple (body) in a shape respectable. Right?
Dang, I'm making a run for nuggets ... ahhhhh!! Help me! Help me! (picture "Finding Nemo" and the sharks) LOL.
It has been said (Ravi Zacharias?) that the primary problem is not the lack of evidence, but rather the supression of evidence. We have the scriptures specifically condemning particular behaviors. If we claim to be followers of Christ, how can we then ask for another sign above and beyond the very words of the Holy Bible?
Regarding birth/choice, whether a person has certain desires is not the issue, the deliberate decision to indulge those behaviors is what must be submitted to the will of the Lord. We must either listen to His directives, or intentionally deny His lordship and choose to deify ourelves. He is God, not us. It doesn't matter how badly you want something; if God tells you not to pursue a particular path you must not refuse his command. In any and every case where we and His Word disagree, we are wrong, He is right. God will not overpower your will; He will help you along, but YOU MUST CHOOSE TO OBEY HIM. Please do so now; to wait any longer is to risk waiting too long. No amount of temporal satisfaction/comfort etc is worth eternal separation from the Father; correspondingly, no amount of present suffering can begin to overshadow that which awaits those who give themselves fully to the Lord. To those genuinely struggling, please choose His way; to say 'No Lord' is either an evident contradiction or an admission that you have yet to make Him Lord of your life.
Mike
I do not understand how if you know we are born with sin why you don't think that being born that way isn't of sinful nature.
"sin being anything that doesnt comply with the order. very similar to the order proscribed by the regulations of the old covenant. the difference being...that with the new covenant came a revised order.
and as with the old covenant we are now led by this new revised order."
I think you fell into the misconception of the new way of teaching that we are no longer bound by the old law. It is wrong. I just posted in another forum what this truly meant. It does not negate us from moral laws or directives(teachings) in the old testament. If that was the case the ten commandments would be history. What it means is that if we believe in Jesus Christ we will be forgiven and be allowed to go to heaven, for God knew it was to hard for any man to keep all of the laws. If he broke one he was impure and unable to be with God. That is what is meant by not bound Christ death set us free, if we accept it. Dietary laws and sacrifice in order to keep us clean are no longer needed for Christ blood does this for us, that is why he said do this in remebrance of me.
Rolln, there is no scriptural evidence for gay marriage. I know that. I was born and raised Catholic, and as you might know, Catholics kind of rely on the priest who reads from teh Gospel then gives a homily to get their fill of the Bible, so I would venture that Catholics are the least Biblically versed of all Christians. That being said: You know where I am on my journey. I do appreciate what you are trying to do, honestly, I know it is coming from a good place. I wish there were some way to put you in my shoes, even for a day, to see what is truly in my heart, because there is so much longing for Jesus to come down and shake me one way or the other. I know it sounds foolish, but all the screaming in the world coming from you isn't going to make me break up with my partner and live celibately, I would need a sign from Jesus that left no doubt (perhaps a Stigmata would do the trick, haha.) I have a tremendous amount of love and trust in Jesus, but when I have been down that road of praying and praying and offering myself not to be gay and nothing happened, you tend to think well...that was incredibly painful and I was furious with God for not working...but now I am in such a good place and I can feel God working through me.
now get your hiney back into the fold and bring your partner with you! Time is running out!
mike-
By the way, thanks for notifying about the flag thing. There's nothing more frustrating than when people flag others without providing a reason for the flag. I'm absent minded, so I rarely remember what I post, so when they flag, I can't correct.
mike -
We use plenty of scripture to point out your error. You on the other hand have provided no scriptural evidence of gay marriage.
You're the one demanding research, not us. So you're being disingenuous. Stop it!
mike -
Fair enough about the name calling.
Now, you say that there's no conversation is ludicrous. We've all been conversing with you and just because you don't like it doesnt' make it non-conversation. Right?
mike -
and by the way, loving someone is telling them their error rather than allowing them down the road of destruction. You, my friend, is heading down the path of destruction and we're trying to (yelling at you) to turn from your wicked way. Unfortunately, I sense that you may have been a dynamic Christian at one point, but listened to the wrong crowd.
Mike2685--
I'm all for conversation, as I would imagine most Christians are. But Jesus also said he came not to bring peace, but division. Paul also warned about those who would turn away from sound doctrine - who had itching ears. And scripture repeatedly calls us to adhere to the truth in spite of the "world's" opinion.
The homosexual movement, its movers and shakers, and their goals are by definition of "the world" - the agenda they are pursuing is to push sinful, hedonisitic, libertine behavior on the rest of society and force society to accept it.
The division begins, and the conversation can really go nowhere, when homosexuals or groups like "Soulforce" flat out deny that the Bible says what it really says. There's nowhere to go from there. Sin is sin. The Bible describes God's feelings about sin. Homosexuality is on the list of grave sins in both the Old and New Testaments. There's no getting around that. I am all for demonstrating love and compassion toward a repentant homosexual who acknowledges their desires are sinful and needs help struggling against it (I am not one of those Christians who necessarily believes a homosexual can be "changed" to a heterosexual - the Exodus movement - maybe, maybe not, but I don't really think so in most cases). Homosexuality is a cross to bear, just like some people struggle against drugs, alcoholism, sexual addiction, pornography, gluttony, etc. It is no worse than any other sin. The difference is *acknowledging* that it is sin. If a homosexual refuses to acknowledge that their desires are sinful, then the conversation ends. It cannot happen. All a Christian can do is show the unrepentant homosexual the scripture, and what the Law says. Then it is up to the Holy Spirit to move the homosexual to accept that their inclination is condemned, and seek repentance and God's mercy in the gospel message.
igh, i don't think Christians who oppose gay marriage are sinning, but I don't think they are right. I think the sin comes in on the part of Christians when, rather than trying to love someone who is gay, and really have a conversation, they start talking and focusing on statistics to the point of causing that gay person tremendous hurt and anger. Jesus engaged in conversation, he did not set out to make someone get hurt, but rather focused on the truth and the best way to get it through to them.
AMEN! Thank God that he has raised up men like Daniel Deng Bul of Sudan in the Anglican Church to speak the truth! He is exactly right - this apostate bishop Robinson must resign and step down or confess his sin of homosexuality was wrong and repent of it.
No open, unrepentant sodomite has any place in the church of God. It is one thing to recognize one's sin and struggle with it, it is quite another to brazenly declare what God says to be sinful, is actually not sinful at all, and then challenge the church of God with such a defiant and unrepentant attitude.
feetxxxl, should the bishops of GAFCON repent and come back to LAMBETH. or should they resign. Are they in rebellion towards God for opposing gay clergy?
what would you call declaring a sin where there is no sin?
i think there is a bigger issue than the one about homosexuality.
that is that christendom is still struggling to fully embrace the new covenant. history has shown by the burning of the saints, 2000 years of antisemitism, 1500 years of the practice of indulgences that it was never an instant leap from the old to the new, but instead a proggression of weaning believers by the holy spirit from the old to the new.
then it is as i said we are to be led, not by the spirit, but by the order.
sin being anything that doesnt comply with the order. very similar to the order proscribed by the regulations of the old covenant. the difference being...that with the new covenant came a revised order.
and as with the old covenant we are now led by this new revised order.
the only problem with that is.......... that it negates everything paul wrote in romans.
Checkmate!
igh
Oooooo, what an angle - I never thought of it this way. Good stuff.
feetxxxl, you believe that gay marriages are ok with God and not sin. Then those who oppose it should repent or resign because they are sinning or in rebellion against God for standing against it. I post a question to you now. Are Christians who oppose gay marriage sinning and in danger of God's Righteous Wrath? We cant have it both ways either you are Right with God or you are in rebellion.
feet,
You have been shown over and over again by scripture that homosexuality is sin, shame on you for beating a dead horse to satisfy yourself,they're whole relationship is of a sinful nature because it is wrong for man to lay with man, or woman with woman.If I am good friends with my banker and he trusts me and respects me that is fine, but as soon as I rob his bank- I have become a thief and a sinner. I can have a brotherly love for a man,with affection,devotion,trust,and respect,BUT as soon as I have sexual thoughts of him I would be SINNING according to the HOLY WORD OF GOD, you can't stop sinning until you acknowledge that what you are doing is sinful-pray that THE HOLY SPIRIT will open your eyes, it is NOT NATURAL or how GOD intended for 2 of the same sex to have a sexual relationship- no children will come from it.Please think on these things and read a King James Bible as many of these new bibles are so corrupted and liberalized it's not funny. Praise for our LORD AND MASTER JESUS CHRIST
feetxxxl-
Since you have the close the eyes, hand over the ears and la la la approach to people pointing out to you scripture showing you what the sin is, then I think you know that most aren't going to waste time posting to answer you anymore.
You've lost more credibility since you support pedophilia relationships. But you can sure post and try.
The Sudan Bishop makes a pointed remark in stating that if Robinson would repent or resign, there would be a healing process of the Anglican communion. However, I believe that most everyone knows that this won't happen, therefore no healing process will occur and more and more Anglicans will leave the denomination.
Additionally, Jefferts states that she will not move "backwards" from this issue (ordination of gays). The gay agenda is making good on its statement that they will infiltrate every aspect of society - in essence - they're going to show it down society's throat whether you like it or not.
"The head of the Anglican church in Sudan said that unity could be restored to the troubled Communion only when the openly gay Bishop Gene Robinson resigns or confesses he has "made a mistake" in embracing homosexuality."
so far all i have read is "because you are not this, you cannot do that."
no one one has yet to explain how homosexuality is of the sin nature...................in other words what is the sin?
robinson and his pardner have bonded out of mutual love, affection, devotion, trust, ,respect and attraction. the same as any heterosexual married couple.
what part of their relationship is of the sin nature?