BOSTON - Gov. Deval Patrick signed a bill Thursday that repealed a 1913 law that had blocked gay couples from outside Massachusetts from marrying here.
"We're being recognized as a married couple," said Joy Spring, of Middletown, N.Y., who planned to wed Carla Barbano, her partner of seven years, at a ceremony Friday in Provincetown.
Supporters of the repeal of the law, which banned couples from marrying in Massachusetts unless their unions would be legal in their home states, say lifting the ban was not only fair but will have economic benefits.
A state study estimates that more than 30,000 out-of-state gay couples — most of them from New York — will wed in Massachusetts over the next three years. That would boost the state's economy by $111 million and create 330 jobs, the study estimated.
Opponents say Massachusetts now could become the "Las Vegas of gay marriage," and they criticized lawmakers for infringing on other states' rights to define marriage.
Patrick, the state's first black governor, said he was proud to sign the bill repealing the law, which some say had its roots in trying to block interracial marriages.
Massachusetts in 2003 became the first state to rule gay couples had a right to marry; California recently legalized gay "marriage," without a residency requirement.
"In five years now, the sky has not fallen, the earth has not opened to swallow us all up, and more to the point, thousands and thousands of good people — contributing members of our society — are able to make free decisions about their personal future, and we ought to seek to affirm that every chance we can," said Patrick, whose 18-year-old daughter recently revealed publicly she's a lesbian.
An emergency preamble attached to Thursday's law allowed out-of-staters to begin marrying immediately.
Spring and Barbano, who were joined in a civil union in 2006 in New York, are from one of the few states that will recognize their impending union: New York Gov. David Paterson said earlier this year that state law requires recognition of legal marriages performed elsewhere.
"Now New Yorkers can drive across the border to a neighboring state (and) get a marriage license that will be recognized as fully legal and valid here at home," said a statement from Empire State Pride Agenda, a New York gay rights group.
The California Supreme Court ruled this year that same-sex "marriage" is legal, and Rhode Island law is quiet on the subject. Other states specifically forbid it, though a few allow same-sex civil unions.
Opponents said the ban prevented Massachusetts from interfering with the decisions of other states — the overwhelming majority of which specifically bar same-sex "marriage." The old law had been invoked by then-Gov. Mitt Romney, who said repealing it would make Massachusetts the "Las Vegas of gay marriage."
Now opponents say the Massachusetts repeal may just give fresh momentum to efforts for a constitutional amendment that would ban gay "marriage" across the country.
"This is a clarion call for the rest of the nation on the dangers of this radical social experiment, and also the essential need for a federal marriage amendment to clearly define marriage as the union of one man and one woman," said Kris Mineau, president of the Massachusetts Family Institute.
"Same-sex marriage is a social experiment, and it certainly will have an impact on the culture, particularly the children, where we already see that in Massachusetts, children are being educated on the efficacy of same-sex marriage and the irrelevance of fatherhood and motherhood," Mineau said.
Associated Press Writer Nancy Kelsey contributed to this report.
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And mike we will also be praying for you to find your true self that God made you to be. That thru His Holy Spirits transforming power when one accepts Jesus as Lord and repents from ones sins and start the journey of a life time on the narrow road one will find his/her true self. cosmos is it hard to sit on the fence? Gods Blessing in Christ Tom
Ah cosmos now your a mind reader too. Amazing. Quite frankly I’m a pretty happy type of guy. I believe in all of scripture, cosmos, all of them from those parts that I personally disagree with to those I agree with. The crux of it all is I don’t have the luxury to just throw away those parts of the Bible, (which you say you believe in), that I disagree with or don’t like.. So I pray for understanding and follow His word and His prompting. Part of this is to preach His word good bad and ugly, if you will, to try and do so out of love but at the same time not compromising what it says. Funny thing tho Jesus said if they persecute me what makes you think they wont persecute you, So I am prepared for that also. As for making laws to restrict the belief of others I don’t know where you’re going with that but I don’t advocate that at all. I disagree with making laws that support a lifestyle that is against nature and nature’s God and is something one chooses to do. What they do with there lives is already protected and should be New laws condoning that choice are not justified. As a supposed believer you should know that we are supposed to stand for righteousness.
So cosmos you are wrong on this also. Gods Blessing on you and yours. We will be praying for ya as well. In Christ Tom
And Tom. I hope that you can find happiness with yourself some day too. It must be terrible for you to repress all those feelings.
I am trying to make this as simple as I can for you. Making laws that restrict others from their beliefs is horribly wrong. This includes laws against gay marriage. Badgering others because their beliefs are different from your own is terribly wrong. What if someone did this to you? Why can’t you be happy with yourself and your life? If you believe something is wrong then do not do it; it is your right to choose. If someone else feels differently allow them their right to choose freely.
Tom, I feel that you are very unhappy with your life and that you have many deep dark secrets that keep you miserable. Since you are miserable you want to make others as miserable as you are. Tom we will still love you even if you are a repressed homosexual, but Tom stop hurting others with your beliefs. Embrace others with your love if you truly are a good Christian. Mike is not threatening me in my manhood or beliefs; I am still heterosexual and I still worship God. So Mike, try and be happy with yourself; I hope that you can find your true self and be happy some day. We will be praying for you.
Hey Tom, you are completely missing my point. As for who is right and who is wrong about the ‘scriptures’, don’t just listen to me or any other so called ‘expert’. If you want to know the truth, you are going to have to study and research everything for yourself. And Tom, don’t just study certain areas and passages, study everything; studying only part of something is how scriptures get ‘twisted’. Let’s talk about this in another discussion, for I would like to try and express my point, hopefully in a clearer manner this time.
First, I need to find a common ground between you and me, so allow me to reiterate my story about my college roommate. My roommate, Bakki, was a fairly nice guy. He was very religious though. As I said before, his Holy Scriptures was the Koran. No other book was true and no other religion was right according to Bakki; and Bakki had thousands of other, like minded, Muslims who agreed with him. According to Bakki, I am doomed to hell, simply because I am not Islamic. Now Tom, try to understand what I am saying; according to Bakki and thousands of other Muslims I am going to hell and unless you are 100% Islamic, you will be joining me. Now to purify the earth and do God’s will, many Muslims believe that all infidels (anyone who does not conform to Islamic beliefs and practices) should be put to death. There have been many people viciously murdered because of their beliefs differing from one group or another. In some parts of the world it is very dangerous to openly admit that one is Christian; death can follow swiftly.
Muslims believe that it is a sin to eat pork; what if there were laws that prohibited the consumption of pork products? Many Muslims believe that everyone should pray to Mecca five times a day; what if there was a law that forced this upon us all? Some communities (in America no less) have outlawed the public display of Nativity Scenes in certain areas. Do you feel that this restriction of your freedom of expression is acceptable? Certain words and expressions have been outlawed on bumper stickers because some people are offended by them. What if Christian symbols and phrases were outlawed because they offended some people? You see Tom, you are right in your own mind because of your ‘scriptures’ and Bakki is right in his own mind because of his ‘scriptures’. You may have millions of people backing you and saying that you are right, but Bakki has millions of people backing him saying that he is right. It is no more right for other religions to force their beliefs upon you that it is for you to force your views upon others. I know you think you are doing God’s will and saving others from damnation; Bakki feels the same way. He is trying to convert you to Islam in order to save you from damnation.
AH cosmos who is living the lie you or me. I have read the words of many a person who has study the Scriptures in my case the Christian Bible in there native languages. All whom have stated that the words we read now hold true. So what do I do? Do listen to one who I do not know nor have read his/her works or do I take the word of many many scholars thru the ages who proclaim this same Gospel. You lose cosmos. As for persecuting mike and others you judge wrong. Does one not tell someone who is one the wide road to destruction that there is a better way? One that leads to eternal life, one that heals, that can bring peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness , self-control, joy and last of all and do I dare say more important then all, Love. Not a human sinful love but a love that God pours into us thru His Sprit. Is that not just stupid to pretend that they are okay? Is that not just evil to let them go on living a lie that can/will lead to eternal separation from our maker? Jesus said to spread His gospel, to make disciples of all men, (women). When one clearly tries to twist what Scripture says than that person needs to be responded to. Sorry if you think that is persecution if that is so then I am guilty of persecuting my children and even my wife when they are on the wrong road. Sorry cosmos. Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
Tom. I was once like you. I only knew the 'Scriptures' as you call them; these are the severely over-translated and only partially published Gnostic text. I prayed and begged God to let me know the truth. Suddenly a chance to study ancient Hebrew was available for me. A couple of years after that I was studying the Torah. Wow! There were a lot of differences between the original writings and the first five books of the 'Scriptures'. I did not stop there; I continued to study other ancient languages and study more text. I am not saying that you are stupid Tom, for I feel that you are very intelligent; however, there is a great deal more Truth out there than you have been exposed to. One thing is for sure, "He who increases wisdom also increases sorrow." When I was in college, a roommate of mine was Islamic; he informed me that I was going to hell because I didn't follow his beliefs and follow the writings of the Holy Koran. To him this was the 'Scriptures' and nothing else mattered. What if we were forced to be Islamic? What if there was a law that said that we had to bow to Mecca five times a day? This would be terribly wrong. If you believe Mike's lifestyle is wrong, then do not do as Mike does, but don't persecute him because his beliefs are different from yours. God loves you, and God loves Mike just as much. He is your friend and your equal; just as I am your friend and your equal. Now don't over-react Tom; I am not trying to make you and enemy; I am just trying to open your eyes or expose you to the 'lies that you live under'.
cosmos then you do not know what the Scripture say. Please read them and you will know that we are not judging them. we are exposing the lies they live under and the results of their action if they choose to stay on the road they are on. That my friend the Bible makes no mistakes about. Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
This is terrible. Not the homosexuality or the Gay Marriages, but the way everyone keeps judging others and forcing their religious beliefs upon others; if you believe something is wrong, then do not do it; if you believe something is immoral, then do not do it; if your religious beliefs say to not do something, then do not do it; however, do not expect others to be like you. Do not judge others and force them to follow your Beliefs. I thought judging was Gods job. Didn't he say, "Judge not..."? I would hate for someone to persecute me because I am Heterosexual. Live your own life and stop trying to live other people's lives. Let God do his job, for our job is to help and love one another, not persecute others because they are different.
yeah i still love him. he's the prodigal son. someday i hope to be able to rejoice when he comes to know Christ as his savior and lord.
Mike if you are ready then I would like for you to say this prayer. I normally don’t like canned prayers but this will do.
“Jesus I don’t know what to think, I have read and debated and argued for weeks now with many different people on this site. I am confused. But I know that I have tried to change in the past and for some reason I still want to. If you are real then show me that I can change. I want to accept you Son as my Savior. I want to repent of all my sins not just this one that has this firm hold on me. I denounce them all and ask you for your forgiveness in Jesus name.†Your word says to Seek your Kingdom and your righteousness help me in the name of Jesus to do so. Help me to find a place of worship that you approve of and preaches and teaches your word. I surrender Lord to your will, help me to walk this narrow road, to trust in you and your word. I ask this in Jesus name†amen.
I hope you prayed this mike He so loves you and if you did and you pursue Him I greet you as a brother in Christ. Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
i know jester but we must still love him and pray for him. thank you for your words.
Oh mike do you think that I do not listen. I read your words and I see you hurt. I read your words and pray that God will open your eyes to the truth; you appear to be one who is on the verge of beginning a journey you will never regret. But you need to surrender mike. I do not need to get through to, I have cast my lot with the one who Saves Jesus Christ. I have been born again and have and continue to be transformed by the renewing of my mind by the Spirit of this mighty God. I have surrender to His will. This is a God mike that can change you if you wish. Salvation is knocking. Jesus said behold I stand at the door and knock. Let Him in mike He is calling your name. Before you go let me say again this fact you may have missed. Despite all you have written in these and other forums mike the fact is this. The Christian Bible has always been proven to be correct and in this case it has also been shown to be so. Homosexuality is a sin, like many others and it will cause one to end up in eternal separation from God, Hell. This God we serve can and has changed ones sexual orientation to one that is Biblical and is according to Gods will.
This is indisputable by 1000’s of personal testimonies. Studies have shown that is possible and organization have been formed to help them. You sir are being called by God to come to Him and accept His son as your Savior. This is your choice. You can remain the same or seek to walk in His way. Your choice. Personally I wish to see you in heaven to celebrate with you in the victory that God can bring into your life through Jesus. Listen to him mike, do you think your many tries to change haven’t been heard by Him? Here is your chance to. Take it. He loves you so. Do you think your desire to change comes from you only? It is His Spirit drawing you near to Him. Do you think you being on this web site and the different forums is by chance? Surrender mike He love you so. Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
Ah mike still calling names when you are hit with the facts. You can’t twist out of this mike try as you might. The evidence is there but you rather just call names. Anyway mike once again Scripture is not wrong and the Scripture used are not some random verse as you say. I gather by your twisting of what Scripture says is also evident in your interpretation of what studies say. As I have said along I start with the word of God and go from there. The evidence that has been presented and verified and upheld by peer review supports this position. You have heard or rather read the testimony of a few. Love won out, Exodus, Narth and other organization have provided this same evidence. Yet you refuse to listen to what God is telling you. That my friend is rebellion against Him and His Son. If you are open to where He wants to take you then start with accepting His Son as Savior, acknowledge and then repent of your sins and start to walk according to His commandments.(the narrow road). You will not be perfect none of us are this side of heaven, but you will start to change. Go to a Bible believing church where the Word is preached and followed, (do not be surprised by others that go to this church some are further on the walk then others). Go to church where they believe in the baptism or infilling of the Holy Spirit and go up and have them lay hands on you to be filled with Gods Spirit. Then PURSUE Him at all cost. One year from now you will look back and know that it is true. 5 years and you will be amazed at the work God has done in your life. Maybe somewhere there or in the future you will find that you are becoming in love with a person of the opposite sex, maybe marriage, maybe kids who knows. All the while pursuing God and His Kingdom and Righteousness. Then at the end of your live whenever that maybe you will hear these words from Jesus Himself “'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness†Matt 25:21. And you will know that you are in the land of the Savior. Heaven. Hope to see you there, Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
Homosexuality is a sin.
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
And for those who would say that the Scripture uses the word "lust" and homosexuals don't lust after each other, they love each other.
The word "lust" in this verse is the only time this particular word is used. "orexis", which simply means "longing for".
So we see that even longing for another person of the same sex is wrong.
Because I can see that studies done, even if they conflict with what you think the Bible would condone, are truthful, and the studies which falsify information solely so you can feel better about your religion, I must not be able to hear God calling me? I am open to the idea that God can take me where he wants, whereas you won't even entertain the idea that you could be wrong. That is a very dangerous place to be, Tom! You are so sure that you have the truth, even though science has proven you wrong, that you will not admit defeat. Science can challenge our thinking, and it doesn't mean that we're leaving God! God gave us brilliant minds, and it would be wasteful to not think critically, which it is very clear you do not do! I truly don't understand how you can look at a study which has proved you cannot change your sexual orientation, but still say "well thousands have! WHERE IS YOUR RESEARCH? Christians so often make these bold statements, but when it comes time to back it up with research, they pull out a random Bible passage and attempt to make the people asking for evidence out to be Godless heathens. its sad that you think your ground is so solid, but I see right through you, and you have no idea where you are!
Ah mike but you see you are important to those who believe that Christ is Lord and follow His narrow path.
This is because you are of great importance to God. Who sent His Son to die for you mike because He knew you would be needing a Savior. We can spend the rest of our time on earth here calling each other liars but the fact remains and Scripture is clear you are in rebellion. You have refused to see the truth in the studies and testimony of those who have surrendered themselves to Jesus’ Lordship. It is as Scripture says you have been blinded by the ruler of this world. But mike God in His love for you has allowed you to see and read the truth; you are of most important to Him. Can’t you hear Him? He is calling you, not me nor anybody else. We are but His methods to bring His truth to you and all who are walking the wide road that leads to destruction. Some are a bit more rough around the edges then others but all have a desire to see you, yes you in heaven! Worshipping and glorifying this Great God we Christian serve, (not always the best way I might add). None the less it is His desire to see all men/women come to repentance and salvation by accepting His Son Jesus as Lord, turning form their sins and walking the in His commands. Can you image mike being able to call Jesus the Son of God, friend, you can but you need to surrender to Him. Jesus said that if you are His fiend then you will follow His teachings/commands. John said Jesus is the word, thus all of Scripture is about Him. It is His-story. Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
it is clear you are perfectly content to feed into a lie. It is sinful, and I'm sorry that you feel it necessary to point out the sins of others when you're completely blind of your own. The studies you reference have been proven, multiple times, to be completely falsified, yet you will hear nothing of it as the truth might conflict with what you believe to be true. No need to condemn me, I know what is in my heart, and that is the truth. You can say what you wish, you are of no importance to me.
I’m sorry mike if you would bother to take of your rose color classes you would see what peer review studies have also concluded. People did change their sexual orientations. To varying degree yes but change they did. That is in disputable. Like all who suffer from different physical and psychological sins/illness/addictions the healing may need to take time as old feelings and thought patterns as well life patterns start to change. The real healing is when you explore the reasons behind the addiction and such. In your lifestyle your own APA friends made this statement in a new pamphlet "Answers to Your Questions for a Better Understanding of Sexual Orientation & Homosexuality." Quote “"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles..."
So mike the onus is on you, I as well as others have shown you that it is possible to change and in fact thousands have, but even if it was just one it would still prove our point.
Having said all this Scripture says that with God all things are possible to those who love God. And to love God means that you need to accept His Son Jesus as Lord repent and walk the narrow road that leads to eternal life with Jesus. The road you are on will lead you to eternal separation from God. He is calling you mike, please listen He loves you so. Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
I have been deceived? By scientific fact?!? No, there is a point at which you must admit that worldly knowledge is real, and this is it. You can believe the Bible, but you must also believe fact. These are not made up figures: The leader of Narth, whom you quoted, found that not one of the patients he studied were able to change their sexual orientation. You are spreading lies in an attempt to make your beliefs easy to believe, and that is sinful! Don't lecture me about sin and finding God when you yourself cannot even distinguish what is fact from fiction.
2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."
Mike I am surprise at you calling people names and saying God would be disappointed in me as well as other, bit judgmental isn’t it. Point of fact God does discipline me a bit when I am bad but that is because He loves me. But He would not discipline me for telling the truth and what I have present is in fact that. I am afraid you are being deceived my friend. I hope one day to be able to call you a brother in Christ maybe to give you a big ole hug but the only way for that to happen since we probably wont meet here on earth is for you to quit kicking against the goads and accept Jesus as Lord and to repent of your sin and follow the narrow road which leads to eternal Life with Jesus. You know this is true but yet still fight against it Why mike? Why? He is so calling you. Gods blessing In Christ Tom
chicago you must love God with all your heart soul and mind and strength. without all of these aspect of our person we are in danger of falling away. So you may be being transformed but if you are living in rebellion to His word by engaging in sex without being married, (again it really doesnt matter whether it is same or opposite sex) you are in danger of being spewed out of Jesus' mouth. You must refrain from sexual immorality. Listen to His voice, call out to Him Seek His righteousness and His kingdom. Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
Yes Jester in the end it is an argument that they can not win. There are several studies that show one can change their sexual orientation. One is called “A Longitudinal Study Of Religiously Mediated Change In Sexual Orientation†or visit just visit the Narth web site and investigate some of the research and the interviews of EX-gays like Michael Glatze who help found young gay America. There are many, many others who have changes like my niece or several who have given there testimony here on this forum. So mike and Chicago or john m to say that it is not possible flies in the face of the facts so quit believing the lies told to you by those who are held in the grip of the evil one. Who is roaming the world to steal and to kill and destroy. This is satan he wants your soul, to kill those who stand against him and to destroy all that is good. But God is calling you 3 to a higher standard. One set forth by the sacrifice of His Son on the cross and the raising of this same Son 3 days later conquering satan, sin and death. And what’s more you also can receive this same thing but you must, must accept Jesus as Lord repent of your sins and walk the narrow road that leads to eternal life with this same Jesus. The path you are on according to Scripture will lead you to eternal separation from God. It is called hell. I believe that God is calling you trying to draw you near to Him. Are you listening? Are you seeking His kingdom and His righteousness? His perfect Love that He will pour into you though the Holy Spirit when you surrender all to Him. Please heed His call. Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
Sorry Tom, but I believe in my heart that I AM loving the way God intended me to love. I think it's quite presumptuous to think that just because I'm gay, that I haven't experienced significant transformation in my life.
Just like you could never love a man in sexual fulfillment, I could never do that with a woman nor would it be morally ethical for me to attempt it.
If homosexuality is actually disordered and if groups like Exodus are able to achieve effective reparitive therapy, then why can't they receive federal or state funding? After all, most public treatment centers use a spiritual component for their recovery programs and also receive Medicaid dollars. Why not Exodus?
I'd love to hear someone answer that without parroting scripture.
See, this is what I don't get? Why do people care if other people, homosexual or heterosexual, get married? It is none of their business.
In addition, how on earth would children become gay just because there are same sex marriages?
Tom, it most certainly has not been proven that you can change, in fact, just the opposite has been even when Christian organizations attempt to study it. If you want to believe a lie, then you are not truly Christian. If being a Christian means following false studies just so you don't have to question the Bible, then I guess I am not the same kind of Christian as you.
AH Chicago to never love again is not the Christian messages but to love the way God would have us to love is. Remember for God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that all who should believe in Him shall not perish. The rub is Chicago that to believe in Him is to listen to what He teaches and to follow His commands. These commands come out of what is called the Christian Bible. So to say never to love again is wrong on your part, To pervert that love and use it for sex outside of marriage whether it is between a people of opposite sex or same sex or anything else it is a for that matter, is wrong. I have and do love men intensely, men I would die for or with, but I have no desire to bring that love to a sexual fulfillment that is against Gods commands period. As for changing your sexual preference you can with the help of Gods Holy Spirit in fact change. It has been proven over and over by personal testimony and studies done. Admittedly not always successful but sometime we humans and our desires get in the way. So Chicago I urge you like mike and your partners if you will to Seek after this God who changes lives and yes personalities including sexual orientations, addictions and other things that control us humans in our fallen states of sins. He truly desires you to come to Him, accept Him so he can change you into the kind of human He wishes for you. Who knows that may even mean a deep loving relationship with a person from the opposite sex. He is calling you to repent. Do you hear Him are you listening Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
Tom: I can assume you are heterosexual. I'd like for you, just for a moment, to really imagine what it would be like if YOU were expected to change your sexual orientation or give up the partner you love and never love anyone intimately again. Could you do it?
As a gay man, I DO NOT believe Christianity calls me to do that. I live my life ethically and have worked diligently on becoming a whole, integrated person. If any religion actually expected me to never love anyone again or change my sexual orientation (which is impossible) I would consider that religion to be invalid and worthless.
Oh Mike I guess you will read your studies and rely on your so called experts and I will read my studies and rely on experts that uphold the Christian view point so this argument goes around and around going no where. But it does seem to be that those raised or influence by unnatural circumstances will tend to follow those examples. This is a known fact of life. So again like Paul says doesn't even nature tell us when things are unnatural? Mike Gods is wishing you to quit your rebellion against Him and surrender all, even your "partner" He is calling. So in the long run mike and to all who believe as he does it really doesn’t matter if you are a product of your environment "most likely studies show" or you are born "gay" or perhaps a combination of the two. The end result according to the Word of God it is a sin, it is immoral and like any other sin it will cause one to end up in eternal separation from God hell if you will. Scripture is clear if you accept His Son as Lord, repent of your sins and walk the narrow road that leads to heaven, (eternal life present with the Lord); in the process of walking this walk the Holy Spirit will transform your mind, changing your desires to line up with what Gods desire is for you. From glory to glory as Paul says, becoming more and more like Christ. The only way to stop this is to turn your back on the truth and persist in your own sin, which is rebellion against God and is the same as witchcraft. He is calling you Mike, are you listening? Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
Does parental sexual orientation affect child development, and if so, how? Studies using convenience samples, studies using samples drawn from known populations, and studies based on samples that are representative of larger populations all converge on similar conclusions. More than two decades of research has failed to reveal important differences in the adjustment or development of children or adolescents reared by same-sex couples compared to those reared by other-sex couples. Results of the research suggest that qualities of family relationships are more tightly linked with child outcomes than is parental sexual orientation.
That's one abstract of a study proving my point...2 decades, now there is a longitudinal study Exodus could learn from!
Tom, funny, I have seen plenty of conclusive studies showing that there is no harm done, whatsoever, I have also seen studies that show the longer a child is in foster care, the more likely they are to get into drugs, promiscuity, and drop out of school. I'd be interested in seeing these studies you speak of.
Jester, I have nothing to say to you. I scoff at the fact you believe you are a Christian, as well as your ignorance. My relationship with my partner is about way more than sex, it is about a physical, spiritual, and emotional connection, the same (if not better) as any straight couple I know. You pretend to be so pious and follow the Bible, but if you're so secure in your faith, why do you always fall back on putting me down? You wouldn't be able to make a point unless you try to make what I am saying invalid, and you do that by trying to make fun of me the way a 5th grade boy would do. When comics swear, it is thought to be used as a crutch because their material isn't all that funny. When a Christian feels the need to put someone else down to prove a point, it is because what they are saying isn't all that true.
And I ask how healthy is it for the children to grow up in a unnatural family that was not designed by God? The jury is still out but the prelimanary studies seem to say that there is significant harm done to children in that type of enviroment. He is calling you to repent mike do you hear Him Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
Mike sex outside marriage whether it is "gay" sex or outside of marriage sex hurts people, period. As Paul said does not nature itself show you that is ungainst nature to engage in it? To your question of Jesus not mentioning homesexual relationships we have address it pretty well here and you refuse to hear it. It is true you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Mike by your reasoning I can find no where in Scripture where Jesus came to save you, it is not in His word your name mike2685 is not mention!!!does that mean that you can not be saved? God is calling you mike do you hear Him. He is saying lean not onto your own understanding instead lean on His. Repent mike God loves you more then you know and He has great and wonderful gifts for you,(and your partner by the way) but you must accept His Son Jesus and turn from your sexual immorality. Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
but then you have to realize how carnal minded mike is. he's worried about drugs destroying our body. which is commendable. but Jesus also expects us to take care of our spirit body. and homosexuality destroys it.
but yes, just like drugs, its hard to tell someone that something is bad for them when it makes them feel so good.
Mike,
you show how foolish you are. you say that when Jesus speaks of marriage being between a man and a woman, that he didn't say that marriage between a man and a man was wrong. so homosexuality is ok, because Jesus didn't actually come out and say that homosexuality is wrong.
But when that same logic is used in regards to drugs, suddenly you do a complete 180. it's fuuny that you'll use our logic to defend your point when it suits your view. pathetic. really. it is.
Jester, Jesus did, actually. He said plenty about taking care of your body because it is your temple through which to do good deeds. We know drugs are horrible for your body, whereas being in a gay relationship does nothing harmful.
Yes, science can tear apart his followers. Science can do things like abort a baby, create bombs capable of leveling NYC, and test for genetic defects so that we can make our children perfect as we see fit. Science can also help bring us closer to truth. The truth of the matter is, loving my partner of the same sex is not immoral, those are standards you hold, but any mention in the Bible referred to sexual immorality in terms of what hurts your body (prostitution, orgies, etc.) You assume that my partner and I do things in our bedroom which is none of your business. Gay marriage does not have to do with how we have sex, but rather the fact that we do indeed love each other in a very healthy way, and that with our legal protection we will be better able to provide for the children we wish to adopt. If you want to say that's immoral, I question your morals.
James,
FYI. On the article "Mass. House Votes to Let Out-of-State Gays 'Marry' I responded to your comment on whether Paul was married or not. I think it's worth a look. Paul was single.
Mike
God warns us in the scriptures that science will tear apart his followers, but we are to stand steadfast for what He has written. Mike I am a scientist I take the position God comes first beore any scientific knowledge I have. I see somethiing amazing and attribute it to God. I do not have to understand how God did it, but I can revel in the fact of His vast knowledge and craftsmanship. He created us and the universe and by doing so He is the master behind any scientific laws we have. He said we are born in sin since the fall and it is past on in generations. If genes are proven to cause pre-dispositions for something I have to attribut it to sin compromised our genes.
Jesus did say that sexual immoral people won't go to heaven,(unless of course they repent and accept Christ. He did say that God created marriage for men and women and that sex outside of marriage is a sin. So that makes any sex outside of marriage a sin and wrong in His eyes. Not my words His. Now what words did I put in Jesus' mouth? please tell me. Mike the time is short for this world, are you listening for His voice? He is calling you to repent and become part of His kingdom, that is why Jesus died for you and me as well as all mankind because we can't get to heaven under our own good works, but we can get there by accepting and repenting and following Jesus. Do you hear Him mike? Why do you think you are so attracted to this forum? He is exposing you to the truth of His word. He is showing you that you can be healed, transformed but you have to let Him, Ask Mike He does love you so. Gods blessing In Christ Tom
let's see. you are his disciple if you follow Jesus command. Jesus said marriage was between a man and a woman, so if someone gets married to someone of the same sex, then he or she isn't following his command. and if he or she isn't then he or she must not be a disciple of Jesus.
Jesus never said drugs were bad for you either! so toke up, shoot up, snort up, whatever your preference may be...but drug use is okay! yes!
Jesus says nothing about gay relationship being unhealthy, thanks. Please don't put words in his mouth.
I am sorry Mike that is not what Jesus says in His word. We are to love the Lord God with all our heart, soul and mind. Jesus also said that if we love Him we will follow our Fathers commands. Jesus also said that if we are His friends we will do what He says. What Jesus said is contained in Gods Word the Bible. As I said before John said that Jesus is the word. Timothy said that the scriptures are good for teaching, preaching, rebuking, etc,etc. When you take all this in consideration plus the fact that you are not walking according to His commandments. One has to conclude you are not walking with the Lord. So the fact remains your doctrine is wrong.The question is are you going to humble yourself and accept what His word says or are you going to continue to be in rebellion to His precepts as put forth in the Bible. He loves mike! He sent His Son to die for you accept Him as Lord, walk the narrow road, and don’t be the seed that walks away because of the pull or cares of the world.
Jesus said repent for the kingdom of heaven is near. He also said unless you repent you too will all perish. His word mike not mine, plain for all to see…..Ah for all those with eyes to see or ears to hear. Look mike, listen mike seek His kingdom and His righteousness His is drawing you to Him, repent and accept His Son as Lord and you will be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
well thanks Troy :)
Mike-
You are an inspiration here. God bless you and your partner.
Well that's funny Squeaky, because my relationship couldn't be more about giving to the other. I put his needs before mine, as he does for me. Unnormal is not a word, so I'm going to leave that one alone, but could you show me some documentation that says it unhealthy to have a same sex relationship?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/health/10well.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/P/Parker-Pope,%20Tara
That's just one article proving you wrong, I'll be glad to supply more if you'd like.
It is unnormal and unhealthy to have such a same-sex relationship. It is all about me, myself, & I.
Self-focused on my needs, my wants, my desires.
You know what is right and wrong from your conscience and listening to your heart, where the Holy Spirit dwells. You know killing is wrong, you know sleeping around is wrong because you feel empty afterwards. I don't need to check my Bible to find scripture telling me if my feelings are good or not, I know, as does everybody. I never said I believe divorce is something God says is OK, but I can't believe God would want 2 people to stay in a marriage if it really is going to hurt them, all because they were young or got pregnant then rushed into it. Again, science has shown that is not healthy for either person or for the children involved. If I have a gene that makes me gay, then there is no changing who I am. I can choose not to have a relationship with my partner, but that would make me have a miserable life, and I would never be able to adopt children into a stable loving home. It would be selfish of my to sit around, living by myself, when i can in fact have a healthy, normal family with the man I love.
Mike
we are born of sin, with sinful desires already in place. Just because science says oh wait I think I have something here does not negate the fact that God is all powerful and can direct His universe in any means He wants. if they find a gene that says some men are prone to be adulterers, does that give me the green light to say ok I can do it now, or do I take the position becuase of sin I am born of sin and sin is within that genes are one of the things that were compromised. Since genes are passed from generation to generation and so is sin it makes since that they were. However, God says it is sinful it is, and I must take up my cross daily to follow Him
mike
we are to follow the instruction of the bible, if everyone were to follow their feelings and their hearts this world would be alot more sinful. God's commandment was love thy enemy. He wanted peopel to do this because he knows peoples hearts, but if you love God first then you will keep his commandment. By some of your post I have the feeling you love what God has blessed you with, without wanting to fully engage in what you are asked by Him. Blessings can be taken away, I SAW MY OWN BLESSINGS FALL AWAY when I wasn't completely right with Him, but I have seen them come back as i have become more faithful. How can you say clearly you know what is right. I saw a posting of yours that said getting a divorce is ok and God wouldn't want to people burden over a mistake they made. No he doesn't that is why he warns people of the type of person they should marry, because He does expect you to remained married. You react to much on feelings instead on the Word of God.
Interesting how you couldn't possibly worship the same god as a gay guy. My God is the exact same as yours, my ultimate truth is the exact same as yours, the difference is I choose to live my life beyond the confines of a book which you choose to take literally. I choose to intertwine my faith in scripture with knowledge of its historical context and with current scientific evidence. Jesus never wanted people to follow him blindly or study scripture solely so they may condemn others and tell them about their judgments. He wants people to study scripture, then go out and show people they are Christians. My partner's sister said it best I think: "If you are a Christian, you should not have to tell me."
Sorry Mike you did not read what I said. I follow where the truth leads and I have done my fair share of studing this issue. So again while i can not judge your eternal results or where you will spend eternality I can look at your fruit which in your case is what you write on this forim and from that it tells me again according to Scripture you are wrong about the way you are living your life. As far as following your god and allowing the holy spirit to direct your life, I suspect it is false because of the falseness of your doctrine and the lifestyle you choose to live without repentance and a desire to follow the narrow road that leads to life. Seek His kingdom Mike and His righteousness He does love you so and He wishes to bring you into the completeness of His love and to be renew by the transforming of your mind.(Romans 12, to be a new creation Holy onto God. You can't do that and life an immoral lifestyle. It is what His word says. And Jesus according to John is the word. Gods Blessing Mike In Christ Tom
Basically you just said "I'm perfectly happy with the data I have been fed and don't care to see the sources its coming from." The studies which give you "data" are not at all true, yet Christians cling to them because it somehow backs up what they believe is in the Bible. You could not be more wrong on this! I have God, God leads me where I need to go, and I have faith in him. I don't cling to the Bible blindly, rather, I follow my heart and have faith that the Holy Spirit will bring me where I need to go.
I'm sorry Mike the Bible is what I believe in and it is my world view and the evidence i have read both for and against homosexaulity both from experts and from personal testimony support this world view not yours. So it comes down to this your lifestyle is wrong according to the evidences that I have read and the personal testimony I have read here and in other times and places. I am commanded to love those who are against this God of the Bible and the stand that Jesus set when he died on the cross and rose again. It is my job to tell people about this Jesus and His precepts that He preach and taught not condemming but not watering it down either. I hope the day comes Mike when you will hear the call of God and accept His Son and be tranformed by the renewing of the mind, to change into the person that He God wants you to be it is your choice always. Accept Jesus and live reject Him and live forever without Him. Gods Blessing in Christ Tom
Tom, you are completely ignorant to the fact that these organizations most certainly have not had success, in any way! They fudge their facts, as you will see in the post I made about Narth, yet people like you bite hookline and sinker and claim to be experts on the subject because you cling to your Bible. You do not love me, you love the knowledge you claim to have and you love pretending to be like Jesus. I can see right through it, as can all gays and lesbians who have been burned by the Christian community one too many times.
And I feel sorry for you mike. On this post many people have presented evidence that people are not born gay, something may happen that makes you desire one of the same sex but you are not born that way. We have given you personal testimony, yet you say they must not have been "really gay" We have shown you differant outreaches yet you refuse to listen to what they say and the success they have had. We have named books for you to read and study yet you fall back on nit picking outdtated personal attacks on the people who did the studies or started the web site or gave their testimony. i do love you as Jesus commands and that love means I must tell you the truth of Gods word no matter what you wish to hear or names you choose to label me with. Mike you said you have tried to change many times. Does not this desire to change tell you something? God is calling you to repentance and acceptance of His Son Jesus. Let Him change you (romans 12) You must walk the narrow road that leads to eternal life with Jesus and refrain from sexual immorality. His is calling you Mike do you hear Him?
Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
Dr. Nicolosi is the cofounder of Narth....I would expect someone from the leading Christian organization pushing for the idea that homosexuals can change to have better results than that!
Effectiveness and safety of reparative therapy:
Dr. Nicolosi said that this form of therapy: "...can only be damaging if the agenda of the therapist supersedes that of the patient." He claims that of the patients at the Thomas Aquinas Psychological Clinic, of which he is founding director,
One third experience "significant improvement -- they understand their homosexuality and have some sense of control." However, they may engage in same-sex sexual behavior.
Another third are "cured;" they refrain from same-sex behavior and the strength and frequency of their same-sex desires is diminished, but not necessarily gone.
The other third fail to change.
It would seem that he is admitting that reparative therapy has a nearly 100% failure rate in terms of converting persons with a homosexual orientation to heterosexual. All or almost all of his clinic's patients retain same-sex desires; that is, they remain either with a homosexual or bisexual orientation.
He commented: "We say to patients, 'Your true self is heterosexual'." He tells male patients: "Look at your body: It was designed to fit a woman, not a man."
I never claimed to know your wife, and I said perhaps. People who are really gay are not going to suddenly change. I know of a few "lesbians" who are now married to men, and in having conversations with them, they agree that obviously their sexual orientation was more fluid, such as bisexuality, than many gays that we know. What I said still holds true: Just because your wife changed does not mean the thousands who have tried and are unable to are wrong.
Jester, I flagged you because that post was a personal attack. If you want to have a real conversation, I'd be happy to engage.
Jester, you know it is responses like yours and from so many other so-called "Christians" which are so full of intolerance, bigotry and ignorance that have made Christianity so repugnant these days. Then you bang on your high chairs over the injustices you seem to face. You just dont "get it" do you?
And if you read my posts, I didn't say anything about her being bisexual. Is that what you do to the Word of God too? Put things in there that don't exist?
What's her name? Where do we live? Unless you can answer those questions, why do you claim to know anything about her?
They told my wife she couldn't change. She was chronic depressive and suicidal. Even meds didn't help. They told her she would be that way her whole life.
They told my wife she couldn't have children. She'd never be able to carry a baby.
I'm glad she didn't listen to people like you. She listened to God. She was healed instantaneously from her chronic depression, suicidal tendencies, and rages. We have two beautiful children.
Mike, please spread your rhetoric elsewhere. We know the true God here.
Tom, it is clear that you care nothing for me or any other gay person as you believe we can change. I have tried, as have many, and it is not possible. There is plenty of scientific research to back up the fact that there is no choice in the matter, which you choose to ignore, and therefore, you are choosing to play God. Its a real shame, you think you're living as such a great Christian, yet you stumble over Scripture so much that you cannot truly love your fellow man.
Sorry Mike one isnt born gay that is a life style you all choose to live. If you wanted to you could be healed from this sinful lifestyle. Gods is calling you Mike repent and accept His Son Jesus as Lord. His Spirit will give you the courage and strength to walk the narrow road. Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
Gay homo sex is wrong and unnatural.
walkin,
I don't agree with you. We are all born into sin. Sin has different affects on us. And to say that God doesn't make mistakes is true.
Jesus and His disciples came upon a man who was born blind. His disciples said "Why was this man born blind? Because of his sins? Or his father's sin?" And Jesus answered, "Neither. He is this way so that the glory of God may be shown." And Jesus healed him.
This man was born blind. Is that what we call normal? No. But that was the way he was born. But Jesus showed that he didn't have to remain that way.
The same goes true for homosexuals. They claim to be born that way, so that must be the way God want's them to be. They are lazy. They deny the power of God. They serve a different god.
Simply put: The way we were born, and the way God wants us to be are two different things. It's up to us to get from one point to the other.
The fact that people are born male and female has nothing to do with whether or not people are born gay or straight, FYI.
The act of homosexuality is a sin, just like the act of drunkeness, fornication, adultery. God, The Creator, in HIS Word has declared this. No one is "born" gay. God does not make mistakes, HE created man and woman in HIS Image...God is SPIRIT and the man is spirit as well, God gave us an earthen vessel to cover our spirit.
Man is full of pride and selfishness and is always seeking his own governance apart from God.
We were created by GOD and for God! We were created in love, to be in a loving relationship with our Father! What we have here is a LUST of the flesh and REBELLION against the MOST HIGH GOD! Speak the truth in love brethren, we do not need to be defensive. God loves all that HE has created...but HE does not love our sin...JESUS CHRIST died to free us from the slavery of sin...and that is what all sin is...slavery to the flesh...but man in his arrogance and pride...fails to obey The Father....this is the truth in love...and these are the facts....feelings and emotions...can be manipulated and often are....and many are gay because they were sexually abused, molested as children..they've been abandoned by parents...no comforting, no loving at home...and they have never "experienced, the Father's embrace or love! I know this because I've lived it my life. the gay life is a BIG FAT LIE from the destroyer of souls....and many many who have come out of the lifestyle...have given testimony to these facts as well!
NO one is born anything but what they are...male and female! This world here is a fallen world...not the one God created...and this world is reserved for fire...without JESUS CHRIST...there is no life! In Jesus Name! Jesus loves you as you are....but HE loves you too much to leave you as you are...HE calls us to come out of this world....with all of its evil practices!!! In Christ, there is neither male nor female...but our all in all is JESUS!
“Afterall, He blamed God for his homosexuality, which is untrue.â€Â
Actually Prophet finally you and I agree on something. You are correct, your god had absolutely nothing to do with the reason that I am gay, it all had to do with nature. Can I prove this decisively, of course not, but on the other hand you cannot prove that I chose to be gay or that being gay is not something that a person is born with. But I can tell you that I do know a lot more about what it’s like to be gay because I am gay, I have always been gay ever since I can remember. You on other hand are not gay and cannot say what it feels like to be gay. After a few years of struggling with being gay during my teenage years, I grew out of the negative feelings and learned to accept who I am. Now I feel lucky to have been born gay. I have a wonderful partner/soul mate of 8 years and even if someone came to me with a “magic potion†to be able to change me into a heterosexual person I wouldn’t take it, even if they offered me 1 million dollars as part of the deal. That would mean I would have to give up the love of my life and that isn’t gonna happen, not for anything. I can tell you that I’m not trying to justify being gay, because there is nothing to justify being gay has been a wonderful gift.
I honestly read that article about the penguins the other day and thought to myself “hmmmm, I wonder what Christians believe when it comes to animals and homosexuality?â€Â. I thought I would ask you guys because I was sure you would know. I know very little of your religion and was curious. I find it quite interesting to see how defensively many of your responded to this, it appears I’ve struck a nerve. Hmmmmmm, I wonder why?????
Afterall, He blamed God for his homosexuality, which is untrue.
He's used the animal kingdom as an excuse, which he says now he wasn't. For the life of me, I can't find a reason that he would bring that up, except to justify his lifestyle.
I'm waiting to see what else he comes up with.
Daniel,
Well, he might still be gay, but he wouldn't be able to use that as an excuse. He'd have to find something else to blame.
" I was born gay and I would be gay whether there are gay animal species or not."
Proof please....
Will God send penguins to hell. I read that, and my wife asked me why I was laughing so hard. That's too funny.
But seriously, um animals cannot get saved. They have no soul. They are controlled by the animal instincts alone. One of the definitions of the word "carnal" in the greek "sarkikos" means animal. So one way that being carnally minded could be interpreted is to be controlled by our animal instincts. We are not animals. God created us to be in dominion over the animals, not act like them.
And you said "I'm not basing my life on what animals do, I was born gay and I would be gay whether there are gay animal species or not."
Then why did you bring it up. If you're not basing your life on what animals do, then why are you asking? It's moot.
Oh for god sakes, ewwwww, yuk. You guys are being kinda gross now, LOL. I'm not basing my life on what animals do, I was born gay and I would be gay whether there are gay animal species or not. My question "is god mad at these two cute little guy penguins and is he sending them to hell?" was asked because I was curious as to how your god works. I had no idea that animals don't go to heaven or hell in your world, they are treated like non-living objects, but now I know.
dongard, if you read minn's post you would see I was responding to his reasoning that the sexual practices of homosexuality are appropriate since they can be seen in the animal kingdom. My point was that if he wanted to mimic the practices of animals that was his choice, but if those practices violate the Word of God they are still sin. Plus we need to remember that the consequences of the sin of Adam and Eve impacted all of creation to include the animal kingdom, so it could very well be that some of the activities we see in the animal kingdom were not part of God's original design.
believer
like all deductionists, you start with a premise and use observations to support the premise.
the first half of your observation on animals is completely based on a single premise, "inappropriate." this is your own bias and can be dismissed as without merit. animals don't know or care what you think is inappropriate. you can get away with making your cat stop playing with itself, try doing that to a four hundred pound lion or bear and he will give you a lesson that you will remember about inappropriate behavior.
LOL. It must be okay. My dog does it!
Why does minni get his view of how humans should behave from animals that eat their own feces and lick themselves in inappropriate places at inappropriate times? Is that his idea of eutopia?
mike2685, good to hear from you and I agree we can't use statistics at this point and that is the point I was making to chicago24 about his post saying we can't compare this to Las Vegas marriages. The bottomline is that only time will tell with regards to the answers to many of these questions. But as far as hate crime laws, many would not be carried out to this extreme but there are some that very well could and all we have to do is look to Canada where a Pastor was recently charged with a hate crime violation because he preached against the practices of homosexuality as he believed God taught in the Bible.
First and foremost there is a clear misunderstanding of what a hate crime is. A hate crime is a delberate attack on a person who is a minority which is based on what the judge decides is legit hate. For instance, when I was working in RI, there was a boy who was out at his high school who was dragged into a bathroom, forced to perform oral sex on several straight boys, then had his head shoved into a toilet and urinated on. That is a very clear hate crime based on the fact that they attacked him for being gay. Hate crime laws will not force any minister to perform a gay marriage if they object to it.
Secondly, believer, you cannot use statistics for this argument, seeing as how many straight couples already get married under a rash decision then soon after get divorced. Could some gays get divorced farther down the road? Absolutely, but I don't see that as factoring into the fact that two consenting adults who love each other and are hurting no one should be allowed to be married in our civil government.
minn, when my son was a little boy we had a dachsund who followed him around hoping for a snack from his droopy diaper. But I don't think you'll find that snack at your local grocery store anytime soon being sold for human consumption. If you wish to base your life choice decisions on the behaviors of animals that is your choice, but if those choices violate the Word of God they are still sin in the sight of God regardless of what Dr. Doolittle thinks.
Aquinas, at this point ministers are not required to perform same-sex marriages, but if any of the so-called hate crime bills get passed that may all change.
chicago24, your assumption is totally without merit with regards to homosexual couples who are getting married having been in those relationships for a while. It is a known fact that homosexuals have a large number of relationships with other homosexuals and in fact this has been one of the things that same-sex marriage advocates have been using to support their argument. Their belief is that if you allow for same-sex marriage it will cut down on the number of relationships homosexuals have. But there is no statistical evidence to support this view at this time, plus now that Mass. will allow same-sex couples from other states to be married in their state it may encourage same-sex couples and especially those living close to their state to make spur of the moment decisions to marry as opposed to really thinking it through. Another problem is how will they be able to get a divorce if they are in a state that does not recognize their marriage.
"The gay agenda will continue to sue, harass, name-call, and intimidate until everyone agrees with them."
Maybe we need to get this type of speach by homosexuals added to the 'hate crimes' law. They talk about love while they spew hate at anyone who says they are wrong. You don't have to go much further than down the tread to see that. How is that love?
There seems to be a misunderstanding that I want to try to clear up. The Bible simply says that homosexuality is sin. The Bible also says 'living together' is sin. It has nothing to do with one's ability to be a 'good' parent or anything else. Being married doesn't mean you will be a good parent.
Quality is conformance to requirements. The Bible states the requirements. It is simply a matter of God has a way and homosexuality or living together are not His way of doing things.
The problem is really that simple. Do you believe that God has the right to tell you how to live your life? Is the Bible His word filled with the requirements for His best? Are you obligated to obey the Bible as written even if it goes against what you want to do?
These are the key factors every person (gay or straight) has to answer and answer for on judgement day.
So...let me ask the homosexuals a question based on the following.... If you do stand in judgement like I am saying all of us will, and if homosexuality is as wrong as I am saying it is...have I warned you?
From where I sit, I see you headed for disaster and am trying to warn you because I love (agape) you folks. Do you consider yourself warned?
Minneapolitian--good to see you back. Saw on the news the 1 year memorial service of the 35W bridge falling. My brother use to live a few miles from there. As to your question...
"So my question, is god mad at these two cute little guy penguins and is he sending them to hell?"
Animals don't have eternal souls. They are simply animals. They won't be in heaven (or hell) anymore than trees or rocks will be. They are here for us.
Still, I wouldn't mind seeing a Sparky the Seal show again....
Minneapolitian-
Please, for God's sake- stay away for Roy and Silo - LOL!
sorry minne they are a adnormal part of nature and since they can't produce offspring, once one or both die their heritage wont carry on. And since Jesus came to save mankind not animals I'm not sure that God is mad at them or not cept He is mad at the fallen state of the world and the continue decline of the world as a whole due to the corruption that sin has wrought, which was brought on by man/women in the garden. That brings Him profound sadness and anger at the evil one and those who by choice choose to reject Him and His Son. Gods Blessing in Christ Tom
It is always interesting to see what we can learn from lower animals. This month's issue of Scientific American Mind contains a particularly interesting article about the phenomenon of animal homosexuality. Animal homosexuality has been documented in as many as 1,500 species, including insects. While I have long been peripherally aware of the evidence documenting homosexual behavior between other species, I was not aware that it existed to this extent.
The article details two male chinstrap penguins, Silo and Roy, who met in Manhattan's Central Park Zoo, coupled and proceeded to mate. When they found they were unable to bear offspring, they nudged a rock into their nests and treated it as if it were an egg. One of the zookeepers observed this and took an egg from another pair of penguins who were unable to care for it and placed it in Silo and Roy's nest, who hatched and raised the baby penguin.
So my question, is god mad at these two cute little guy penguins and is he sending them to hell?
Aquinass-
It's a secular issue not a religious issue? HA! It's impossible to separate the secular from the religious in any culture. A lesbian couple sued a Christian photographer because the photographer wouldn't take on the assignment after finding out that the couple was gay based on religious grounds. The gay couple won $6,000.
The gay agenda will continue to sue, harass, name-call, and intimidate until everyone agrees with them. In Canada, a church was fined and threatened with jail time because they preached that gay was a sinful lifestyle. Trust me, they will use "hate" crime laws to force their perversion on everyone. They are organized, well-financed, and even they have touted that they will be in every aspect of society whether you want it or not.
Gee, funny considering getting married "las vegas" style has been an invention of heterosexuals.
This whole “Gay Marriage†issue is a “tempest in a teapot!†It is a secular issue, not a church issue. No church is required to perform “Gay Marriages,†or even to recognize them, for heaven’s sake!
And how does opposition to “Gay Marriage†“protect†heterosexual marriage? Does it prevent spousal abuse? Does it lower the number of abortions? Does it lower the divorce rate? I think not.
Why do we “major in the minors,†the enemy wants us to argue about secondary issues, rather than concentrate on things above, there are people anxious to hear the gospel, why are we not talking to them instead of arguing about something over which we have no control?
And yes, they did misspell “foresee,†but then who of us is perfect?
Grace and peace!
chicago24,
Mat 19:4-6 "...Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." â€â€Jesus
I don't see how miss spears makes up " most" people, But does it do gay people as injustice to compare their relationship to the Bible definition of marriage.?
Most folks (heterosexual) who get married in Las Vegas have barely known each other. Britney Spears, anyone?
However, most gay folks getting married in Massachussetts and California have been together for YEARS already.
I think it does gay people an injustice to compare their relationships to the likes of heterosexual marriage.
"Governor Patrick is in for a rude awakening. He says: "In five years now, the sky has not fallen, the earth has not opened to swallow us all up..."
Yes he is:
2Pe 3:2-4 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Savior: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Romans 1 says "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions' for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."
Sometimes God's judgement is to simply allow people to do what they want and not let them see for themselves that He calls it sin. After all, it is only through His Spirit that we can see sin for what it is. Many people think they are hearing the Spirit when in fact they are simply hearing a spirit. The best way to tell is if what you are saying is not sin is clearly written in the Bible as sin. After all, "the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned their desire toward one another, men with men" just doesn't get any clearer.
Mike-
Timeline? LOL! It's quite flattering that you think I'm God, but I'll give you a clue - I'M NOT!
I don't know when God acts, but for anyone that scoffs at God like you and Governor Hack of Mass. I surely don't want to be around when God's judgment is unleashed. It ain't pretty - lots of gnashing of teeth and stuff.
artm, so silly! marriage and abomination don't sound the same...you silly goose. Rolln, what timeline is it that God works on for destroying a city? You seem so edumicated, so...when can we expect that it will happen?
Governor Patrick is in for a rude awakening. He says: "In five years now, the sky has not fallen, the earth has not opened to swallow us all up..."
Boy, is he in for a rude awakening. He's very Biblically ignorant as well. Rarely, did God wipe out a nation in "5 years" - Sodom lasted many more years than that before God obliterated the city. Watch it Patrick, your day of accountability and scoffing of God will come.
Massachusetts, the "Gay State"? Ummmm, now that would be interesting.
Help Defend Marriage at:
<www.allianceformarriage.org>
Typo Alert: "forsee" is spelled "foresee"
Some say Tomato some say To-ma-to, " Some say marriage, God says Abomination.