Sunday, November 08, 2009 Last Update:10:13 pm ET

Society|Thu, Aug. 07 2008 11:09 AM EDT

N.Y. Out-of-State Gay 'Marriage' Case Heads to Court

By Lawrence Jones|Christian Post Reporter

The New York Supreme Court will hear arguments from a Christian legal team Thursday to determine whether Gov. David Paterson overstepped his authority when he issued an executive order mandating that all state offices recognize out-of-state gay "marriages."

Alliance Defense Fund attorney Brian Raum will appear before the court on Thursday on behalf of N.Y. legislators and taxpayers.

“The governor should respect New York’s marriage laws over the laws of foreign jurisdictions," said Raum. "Governor Paterson is overstepping his authority and the democratic process by issuing a directive at odds with New York public policy on marriage."

The state's highest court, the Court of Appeals, declared in 2006 that only marriage between a man and a woman is legal under the state's Constitution.

On May 14, however, Paterson declared that New York must recognize same-sex “marriages” performed in Massachusetts, Canada and other places where they are legal.

He issued the executive order directing state agencies to "ensure that terms such as 'spouse,' 'husband,' and 'wife' are construed in a manner that encompasses legal same-sex marriages."

According to the governor's office, the decision to recognize out-of-state gay unions are based on a ruling in a state lawsuit involving two community college employees who wed in Canada, where same-sex "marriage" is recognized. Appellate justices ruled to recognize foreign gay "marriages."

In court papers filed in June, ADF argued that several lawsuits on the same issue are undergoing litigation and a directive based on the one case is "unfounded and premature."

Any changes to New York marriage laws must come from the legislature and not the governor, according to the suit. Implementing the directive "will cause a wrongful expenditure of taxpayer funds in a state where same-sex 'marriage' is not legal."

The case is Golden v. Paterson.

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  • Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike2685, while I served overseas in Europe the Germans celebrated Fasching which is the equivelant to Mardi Gras. As a part of the celebrating it was totally permissible for a husband or wife to go home and have sex with another person. God calls that adultery which He calls a sin, but according to your logic since the husband and wife were supposedly okay with that then it was not a sin. Mike, you can't have your cake and eat it to, it doesn't matter what you and your partner think, if God calls the sexual practices of homosexuality a sin then it is a sin and to try and justify or rationalize it may ease your conscience, but it is still a sin in the sight of God.

  • Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    You said "Fornication" which I'm assuming means having multiple sex partners for you, can lead to STDs, pregnancy, and/or feeling empty."
    Homosexuality leads to eternal separation from God. I'd say that's pretty injurious to a person.

  • Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:54 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike,
    Try as you might to ignore tha scriptures that condemn homosexuality, they are there. And they will find you out. I pray that you humble yourself and repent before you find out the hard way. You're in my prayers.

  • Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:38 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    A man's penis was never meant to be inserted into another man's bum.

  • Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:33 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    And there you go again...for every other thing, there was some kind of physical harm that made it sinful, meaning that God didn't want us to be hurt by it. When it comes to my relationship, you say "well its hurtful because God called it sin." That's like defining a word with the word "Stop means to stop." It just doesn't work that way. There is no clear reason why my partner and I are sinful in any way, no matter how you try to push it.

  • Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike,
    How can it be wrong? That's how God made me. So it can't be bad.

  • Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike--God gave you your body in stewardship. He expects you to use it for His work the way He want's you to. To do otherwise is bad stewardship. He has set the way He wants us to use our lives (which includes our bodies). Even if the only person you hurt is yourself...that doesn't mean you haven't sinned against God no matter what the sin is.

  • Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Sure, all of those hurt you or someone else involved. Me loving my partner hurts me in no way, shape, or form, nor does it hurt my friends, family, or job. "

    The Bible says our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. It's the same thing as ol' Billy using the Oval Office for 'personal' things. I think the office of our President (no matter who it is) should be respected even by the President. If you are a Christian then you should respect your body as the temple of the Holy Spirit and use it as He says to.

  • Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike2685, thinking lustful thoughts does not necessarily hurt someone if you keep them to yourself, but Christ still called it a sin. Plus the bottomline is all sin is known and seen by God. So to try and legitamize a sin or sinful practice or lifestyle by saying if it doesn't hurt somebody else then it must not be a sin won't cut it with God if He indeed considers and calls it a sin.

  • Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:51 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet, really, must we play these games? "Fornication" which I'm assuming means having multiple sex partners for you, can lead to STDs, pregnancy, and/or feeling empty (I know, I've been there.) Being drunk a lot can hurt your liver, adds excess fat to your body, and you make poor decisions which can hurt you or people around you.

  • Tom »
    Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike says "Is that a fact? I want nothing to do with righteousness because I am gay? What I want nothing to do with is the self-righteous folks who walk around like they can do no wrong."
    Ah mike dont you know that we dont walk around like we can do no wrong, we walk around knowing that we are sinners, that know right from wrong in Gods eyes and His word. He is still calling you mike? He is reaching out to you in many and various ways. Why I bet you cant walk down the street and see signs of Gods calling on you. You need to repent there sir ask Jesus or His salvation accept it and then begin a walk you will never regret when the day comes that you go to meet your maker. Gods Blessing In Christ Tom

  • Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Besides mike,
    How can it be wrong? That's how God made me. So it can't be bad.

  • Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Fornication" is just someone who has a lot of love to give. What's wrong with giving love? And drunkeness is just that...drunkeness. It doesn't hurt anyone.

  • Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Fornication doesn't hurt anyone. Either does drunkeness.

  • igh »
    Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Yes thats a fact.

    1John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin...

    1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
    1Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
    1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
    1Jn 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

  • Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Sure, all of those hurt you or someone else involved. Me loving my partner hurts me in no way, shape, or form, nor does it hurt my friends, family, or job.

  • Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike,
    Do you believe that adultery, fornication, and drunkeness is a sin?

  • Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:45 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Is that a fact? I want nothing to do with righteousness because I am gay? What I want nothing to do with is the self-righteous folks who walk around like they can do no wrong.

  • igh »
    Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    1Samuel 10:17 And Samuel called the people together unto the LORD to Mizpeh;
    1Samuel 10:18 And said unto the children of Israel, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I brought up Israel out of Egypt, and delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of all kingdoms, and of them that oppressed you:
    1Samuel 10:19 And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.

    Same thing is happening today. Jesus Saved us, and many are Rejecting him as King. They want a 'king' who will give them what they want, they want nothing to do with Righteousness.

  • Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Thanks blacksho. I've never heard that term before. But that goes on a lot. And everyone does it. Every homosexual and their proponents come on here and do the same thing. What make Mister E any different? Though I don't agree with him or homosexuals, it seems he is just speaking his opinion.

  • Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    A troll is someone who posts an outrageous statement for the purpose of seeing if anyone will respond. From the fishing term "trolling"; to pull bait through the water until something takes it.

    Unless you are trolling me, in which case, Good Show!

  • Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Blacksho,
    A troll?

  • Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The key issue here is if the Governor had the authority to make that kind of action. Expecially if it over-rides an existing law. We are a nation of laws. Everyone is allowed to have and express their own opinion. This doesn't mean it is recognized as law. We have a process for that.

  • Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "God created love for everyone, regardless of their orientation"

    Wow, Mr. E!!!! What translation of the Bible do YOU use? As has been shown here in the blogs many times there are 4 different words translated 'love' in the Bible. Each has a different meaning. So... which word for love are you talking about?

    I take it the physical love which requires nothing but misguided emotions and some body actions?

    Mr. E sounds like the same old alphabet arguement don't they now?

  • Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mister E,
    Homosexuality is a sin, as I've just posted. So is incest. I hope you don't consider yourself a Christian. A real Christian would know these things.

  • Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:25 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Homosexuality is a sin.
    Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

    27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    And for those who would say that the Scripture uses the word "lust" and homosexuals don't lust after each other, they love each other.

    The word "lust" in this verse is the only time this particular word is used. "orexis", which simply means "longing for".
    So we see that even longing for another person of the same sex is wrong.

  • Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    you interpret it to say certain things that in fact it does not. Again, if you want to be on your high horse, that's fine, but i disagree, and God knows whats in my heart.

  • Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:52 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    The Bible says nowhere that homosexual activity is good. It says in several passages that it is a sin. And it says to rejoice when you are insulted for speaking the truth.
    So, please, call me all the names you want. But remember: I want to meet you in the next life. Please be there so I may embrace you as a brother -30-

  • Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:59 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    OK, then. For the final time, before I shake the dust from my sandals:

    Where in the Bible does it say that homosexual acts are OK, or approved, or pleasing to God?

    One question. Straight answer, chapter and verse.

    And after this, I will never address a response to you again.

    "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

  • Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:22 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    nor did I ever claim to. You DO NOT love me "too much" or at all. You pretend to, but you clearly do not know the first thing about how to love someone else.

  • Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:22 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Mike: The command for stoning was fulfilled by the death of Jesus. Have I ever demanded you be put to death? Of course not! I am subject to the same laws every time I look twice at a beautiful woman! The difference is that I acknowledge that I have broken God's laws; you believe that you can re-write God's laws.

    And if God says that stoning adulterers is moral, then it is moral. Who am I to argue? I am thankful that He chose to die so that I can live!

    You can take the Bible and develop your ethics from there; I don't care. But I repeat; I love you and the other readers too much to let you spread the lies of the Enemy, that Mike gets to write his own 10 Commandments, because he has eaten of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and is therefore like a god!

    You don't get to do that, Mike. You either repent or you don't. It's your decision. You don't get to be your own god for eternity like you do here on Earth.

  • Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    You love me too much? You truly must be joking! You love nothing but a book, not what the book means! People like myself and Doreen take the Bible, are capable of meshing it with current science, and develop our morals from there. In the Bible, it condoned such things as slavery and stoning women who were adulterous. Is that what you would consider moral or ethical? I'll say it again, gay marriage is not immoral, it is about love, which is moral.

  • Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:43 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "We both believe in Jesus, but who decides whose morals are correct?" You answered your own question. Jesus does.

    "What about people who don't believe in the Bible at all? Are they not allowed to talk about morals, because they must not have a moral compass?" All humans have a moral compass. This comes from when Eve and Adam partook of the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. We all have God's law on our heart, and Satan is always trying to twist that law. That goes for every human.

    "Morals change with time and knowledge." No, they don't. Ethics change with time; morals are from God and are unchanging. The 10 Commandments are moral, the 10 Suggestions are ethical.

    Mike, I fear that Satan is asking you the same question he asked Eve: "Hath God truly said...?" And since Satan twisted God's words, Eve fell for it.
    After 40 days in the wilderness, Satan asked Jesus the same types of questions, again twisting God's words. Our Blessed Redeemer quoted Scripture to defeat the Enemy.

    I beseech you to read your Scripture to learn the Truth.
    God condemned homosexual acts. Any sexual act or thought except that between a man and woman who are married to each other is a sin. Sin can only be forgiven if the sinner repents of that sin.

    I love you too much to let Satan lie to you; and I love the other readers here too much to let you spread those lies.

    In the matchless name of Jesus I pray that your eyes be opened.

  • Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    SqueakyWheel - I did a little reading on the Ocean Grove NJ case. As I suspected, it's hardly a sign that churches are being forced to change their policy on marrying gay couples.

    The religious organization in question took advantage of a NJ program allowing tax breaks for groups who open their private facilities to the public. So far so good. Then they refused the request of the gay couple to hold their ceremony at the group's pavillion. NJ law forbids those who “offer goods, services, and facilities to the general public” from “directly or indirectly denying or withholding any accommodation, service, benefit, or privilege to an individual” on the basis of sexual orientation.

    They can't have it both ways. They can either keep their facilities private, and thus retain the freedom to set their own policy, or they can make the facilities public in which case they are subject to public laws like everybody else.

  • Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    thanks, you too :)

  • Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:56 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike2685 - Excellent post! Very well said.

  • Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:55 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "By the same token, same-sex "marriage" does not & will not ever be morally acceptable, despite it's legality in certain jurisdictions."

    Correction: will never be morally acceptable to YOU.

    Funny you should compare with slavery. Ending slavery was correcting an injustice. Ending the times when we ban gay couples from civil marriage licenses is also correcting an injustice. Change in cases like these is progress, and a good thing, despite whoever is crying to keep things the way they've always been.

    Your NJ case is one I don't know much about, but whateverthe circumstance it was surely isolated and not representative of things to come. Religious freedom is alive and well in our country, and I will stand right beside you in making sure it stays that way.

  • Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:00 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    You believe it is immoral, I think gay marriage is a very moral step. We both believe in Jesus, but who decides whose morals are correct? What about people who don't believe in the Bible at all? Are they not allowed to talk about morals, because they must not have a moral compass? I would argue that many atheists and agnostics are some of the kindest, most moral people I know because they truly believe in doing good for the fact that it leaves a mark on the world, not because they're trying to win the race and get into Heaven. Morals change with time and knowledge. At one point, interracial marriage was considered by many to be immoral, and some went to far as the thump their Bible for reasons it was!

  • Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:47 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    "But it is indeed a marriage (in Massachusetts, California, Belgium, Canada, the Netherlands, Norway, South Africa, and Spain, at the moment), 100% as legal and valid as a heterosexual marriage."

    Legal validity passes and goes as societies come and go.

    Slavery was legal in the U.S. at one time too. But slavery always was and always is immoral.

    By the same token, same-sex "marriage" does not & will not ever be morally acceptable, despite it's legality in certain jurisdictions.


    "Some churches may not recognize it, but then no one is asking them to."

    Yeah, right. Churches have not been bothered at all. Just ask the Ocean Grove, NJ ministry for refusing to allow a same-sex marriage ceremony on their property. Later they got their tax-exempt status revoked for standing on their moral principles.

    So much for being left alone. Don't have much experience with "Churches can do whatever they want with marriage?"

  • Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:38 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    If we are TRULY thinking of the best interest of children, we should stop demonizing gays and start treating their relationships as EQUAL to heterosexual relationships (which they are). The number of children under 18 who commit suicide because they do not see the possibilities of a life with love and truth is HUGE. We should also grant their gay parents marriage equality; it is an ABOMINATION to discriminate against gay familes.

    Of course some of us are NOT that patient when it comes to morality and common decency, so we are refusing to pay taxes until society treats us the SAME as others.
    GAY TAX PROTEST
    http://gaytaxprotest.blogspot.com/

  • Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:39 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    "Same-sex "marriage" (with the appropriate quotation marks) will never be the same as marriage between one man and one woman."

    Of course it's not. Don't have much experience with the word 'same' do you?

    But it is indeed a marriage (in Massachusetts, California, Belgium, Canada, the Netherlands, Norway, South Africa, and Spain, at the moment), 100% as legal and valid as a heterosexual marriage.

    Some churches may not recognize it, but then no one is asking them to. Churches can do whatever they want with marriage. They're not the ones handing out civil equality or legal protections.

  • Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:47 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 0

    Same-sex "marriage" (with the appropriate quotation marks) will never be the same as marriage between one man and one woman.

    The quotation marks signify that a counterfeit is not the same as a genuine marriage.

  • Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:43 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    <Its actually not constitutional, hence why we're having this big debate.>

    "The state's highest court, the Court of Appeals, declared in 2006 that only marriage between a man and a woman is legal under the state's Constitution."

    In NYS, marriage as defined between one man and one woman is constitutional. Period. The Court of Appeals determined that in 2006.

    The issue at hand is whether NYS should recognize out-of-state same-sex "marriages" as dictated by Gov. Paterson's executive order.

    I rest my case:

    Marriage as defined between one man and one woman is constitutional, legal, traditional, historic, biblical, and common sense.

  • Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    chicago24:
    Mock me all you want, I consider it gain for the sake of the Lord. Please, Sir, may I have another?

    However, I urge you not to mock God. He is patient, and He is humble, but He will not be mocked in the end.

    And since He has directed you here, you will see Scripture quoted. I don't know why you are so surprised.

  • Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:06 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Oh my goodness, Blacksho, now that you've quoted that scripture from Leviticus, I've suddenly changed to a heterosexual!! It's a miricle!! I will praise God every day over the fact that you quoted that scripture and changed my life. . .

    . . . get real.

  • Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    chicago24: Once again, I direct you to Scripture. What did Jesus say to the Pharisees who twisted the Word of God so that they followed the letter of the Law while completely ignoring the Spirit of the Law?

    Blind.

    And if you think that you can lie with a man as with a woman, and God will approve, you are obeying neither the letter or the Spirit.

  • Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:27 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    mrsjrv: Timothy 3:16-17 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

    Of COURSE we are directed to judge peoples ACTIONS. Only Christ may judge their hearts. Do you tolerate your children lying and cheating because you do not want to "judge" them? Of course not! Neither will I pat a man's back on his way to Hell.
    Sexual immorality is a sin. The wages of sin is death, and Jsus can only save us from sin if we repent. We can only repent if we acknowledge it is sin.

  • Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike2685: If you love someone, and are celibate both in deed AND IN THOUGHT, then I can not call that a non-Biblical relationship. We are definitely taught that Agape is beautiful.
    However, from previous postings I know that you are not talking of non-sexual love.
    "Jesus did not encounter homosexuality because at the time, it was punishable by stoning, which meant there were no same sex relationships".
    It was punishable by stoning because God made it clear to Moses that thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman. There may have been no word for a homosexual; I'm not an expert in ancient languages, but it does not matter. God made it clear that the ACT was prohibited, and Jesus reiterated that just looking with lust was the same as committing the act.

  • Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Nowhere in the Bible is the behavior addressed regarding those who are homosexual. Homosexual orientation wasn't even acknowledged as a condition until the late 19th century. The Biblical authors knew nothing of it.
    Since it's not addressed, I will use my own God-given ethics to live my life in a way that is pleasing to God and that does not harm others.
    I've known I was gay all my life. Same goes for my identical twin brother.
    Now, do any of you feel your rights are affected in any way by my life?

  • Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Blacksho89 Don't judge others, and God won't judge you. Don't be hard on others, and God won't be hard on you. Forgive others, and God will forgive you. Matt 7:37
    I can quote the bible too!
    I am a practicing christian Member of the vestry of my church in the choir and a lay minister. Gay is not an excluded of chritianity.

    Me (male )and my husband have been together 30 years and married in Canada.



    Just because there will always be sinners does not mean that sin should become celebrated behavior. By your logic, since you most likely stole a cookie when you were a toddler, theft should be legal. Since people disobey speed limits, we should all drive 120 mph.

    The name of this site is the Christian Post, not the "Live and Let Live Post", or the "Tolerate All Post". If you do not want to be listen to God's word, He has given you that freedom of choice. If you choose to come to this site, you will be taught His word. Apparently, He has directed you here. I thank Him for sending you. I pray you repent and accept a relationship with Jesus the Christ, who loves you like His bride, and desires to live with you for eternity.

    Luke 6:46-46 " 4A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

    And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

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