Christian Leadership Summit Encourages 60,000 to Invest in Themselves

wbmoore »

Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:45 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

believer,
Heh! thanks. I appreciate the solid doctrinal positions you uphold on this board with such aplomb and patience.

And thanks for the prayer.

May God bless you and yours as you seek to honor and serve Him.

believer »

Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

wb, we have to stop agreeing like this or no telling what people will begin to think, but you totally hit the nail on the head with your last post and I will pray for you and your family about this decision, be blessed as you continue to serve Him, believer

wbmoore »

Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:24 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

believer, I have to agree with you yet again. :)

The church, instead of making it easier for the pastor by stepping forward, and actually volunteering for stuff often have to be poked and prodded to participate in the least little bit. They often make demands and condemnations without praying first. Most have not picked up a Bible, let alone read it even once. And heaven forbid if they actually hear a sermon on tithing. The thing is, most people in church are not living their religion. Most people do not look to see what God would have them do, but make decisions that appear best for them. And granted, not everyone is called to ministry, but many more people are called to serve than actually step forward to help serve the church in any capacity. It makes me question their maturity, if not their salvation.

Of course, I think its because we have a poor understanding of growing disciples. Jesus took three years to start a church. He spent time preaching, yes. But mostly He lived with His disciples, sharing the Truth of God though life. I think we fail to grow a team of people who know how to grow a team of people. We need to invest time in relationships with God and those God brings to us. Then we can help them grow to become who God wants them to be. Then we can have them grow their own groups. But instead of growing leadership, we look outside the church. Instead of growing people who love God, we want to get a group together to pay for a pastor to build a building to say we have church.

This is why I like the idea of house churches. There is little choice but to be involved. The elders are often not paid, they are simply part of the family called church. They help each other out. People have to look for what needs to be done and do it, or nothing will get done.

I am praying about this for my own family. This, as well as a better understanding of the Holy Spirit and faith. Please pray for me.

believer »

Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:22 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

wb, once again I agree, but unfortunately too many churches have a hard time supporting one Pastor, let alone two. I believe that all that is needed is for the congregation to be sensitive to the needs of their Pastor and his wife and family. But sometimes a Pastor can be his own worst enemy and that's where a caring congregation needs to firmly and lovingly make the Pastor take time alone to be with God as well as insist he take as I said earlier a real vacation at least once a year with his wife and family. I believe the Church has lost many a godly man as a result of him not taking proper care of both himself and his wife and family to include his and their spiritual, physical, and emotional well being.

wbmoore »

Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:52 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

believer,

That's why I find the idea of team ministrers to be so appealing. I think it follows the models of Jesus and Paul very well. Plus it allows us to have people around us to pray for us, to encourage us, to hold us accountable, and to give us relief so we avoid burnout.

So often the congregation wants to push and take advantage of pastors and their families, but do not want to provide time for them to be alone with God. Or pastors have a messiah complex and want to save everyone, believing no one else can do what needs to be done the right way. They forget it is GOD's church and they can rely upon HIM to fill the needs (if they are real needs and not just things we think we need but dont).

For me, it boils down to praying, trusting, and following the models and principles set forth in the word.

believer »

Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:19 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

wb, I agree totally, but I think there are many who believe those in ministry must be on duty 24/7, where even burnout becomes a badge of courage. That is unfortunately a theme I see repeated over and over in the life of many in ministry to the point they are so worn out their no longer able to carry out the ministry God has called them to and become vulnerable to falling into sin because they are physically, emotionally, and spiritually drained.

wbmoore »

Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:30 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

believer,
I agree with you about pastors, and really everyone, needing time alone with God. I think it imperative. But it sounds like Hybels is preaching self-talk and personal motivation, tied up with a nice bowstring of secular leadership philosophy.

While we should educate ourselves, the BIble is the most important book we must lean. God, in the person of Jesus Christ, has invested in us. We should trust God, submit to Him, pray, and work out our salvation and give God cause to say 'well done, good and faithful servant', not self-talk ourselves into making decisions God would not have us make because the right people are around a table.

believer »

Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:39 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

I think we need to be careful we don't throw out the baby with the bath water here. As a Pastor I knew it was imperative for me to get alone with God on a regular basis and that is why I committed every Thursday morning to a time alone with God in mainly prayer with some study. As a Director of Missions I try to encourage my Pastors to do the same thing. To be perfectly honest if Christ saw it as an important thing to get alone with His Father should we as Pastors not follow His example. Plus I believe a Pastor needs to take a true vacation with his family at least once a year. And I mean a total vacation, not necessarily expensive, but no sermon preparation, no phone calls, no heavy reading, but just fun and relaxation. Not only will these two things benefit the Pastor and his family personally they will also make him far more effective as a Pastor. The bottomline is this, it is a win-win situation for both the Pastor and his congregation and the community they serve.

msnchris70 »

Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:46 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

I wonder if that many people would show up if the conference header was,"Give all your money and possessions away to the poor and Come follow me?"

wbmoore »

Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:56 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Pastors do get worn out, when they try to do everything in their own strength. They need to deny themselves and take up their cross and preach the truth about Christ. Let the chips fall where they will.

wbmoore »

Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:03 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

Hybels is more and more preaching the world and not the word of God.

crossfire »

Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:58 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

While the Gospel is about emptying and self-sacrifice, to give out God's love, you must first open your heart to receive the Love that God's already given. I've seen too many ministers "run dry" because they're so focused on their works and on serving that they forget to take hold of the very things that God is giving to them. While I don't agree with "prosperity" preaching's reversed emphasis, it is true that God gives and that He wants us to receive.

More than what I've done for God, the Lord wants us to think about what He's done for us.

KoneWone2 »

Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:46 am Agree: 9   Disagree: 2

One step forward and three steps back

"It takes honest leadership to admit you were wrong, as in the case of willow Creek, a church that has been a seeker friendly model of ministry to many. But are we seeing steps of change in the right direction?

After an admission they were wrong and made a mistake Hawkins states “Our dream is that we fundamentally change the way we do church. That we take out a clean sheet of paper and we rethink all of our old assumptions. Replace it with new insights. Insights that are informed by research and rooted in Scripture. Our dream is really to discover what God is doing and how he’s asking us to transform this planet.”

Willow Creek thinks God wants us to “transform the planet!” This didn’t sit well with me after I first read this. Time will always give us a bearing on where one is headed. After 30 years they realized they had moved away. Well it did not take long…They are now moving to be part of the emerging spirituality, that includes Rick Warren and many other major Christian leaders who believe the church will transform cities and usher in the kingdom of God on earth before Christ returns. Hopes to transform the planet certainly has dominionist language, on the other side those who know the season we are in look forward to completely different scenario for the church.

Transforming the world before it becomes too late is hardly something you will find in the bible which makes it clear Jesus’ kingdom is not of this world (until he comes again) and we are in conflict with the world that is under the influence of Satan and his kingdom that is presently ruling through

We are to become separate from the world to be any good for God’s kingdom, as we rescue individuals.

While this church seems to have had an awakening of sorts – a churches midlife crises after 30 years, the next step they take will show their direction for the coming years."
Continued here:

http://www.letusreason.org/Emerge5.htm

I do not see any holiness of God coming from Willow Creek, I see no fear of God there, I see no trembling at God's Word at Willow Creek. Something is terribly amiss.

Andromeda »

Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:12 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Janten is correct.

JantenPas21 »

Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

Bill Hybels is teaching a great truth. Too often spiritual leaders don't take time for their personal growth and relaxation. They need personal time with the Lord too.

Pastors have this tendency to get so wrapped up in helping others that they forget to invest time in their own personal growth (in fact most people do). God wants us to spend some time alone with him. To invest in ourselves means to put effort into making us more effective/efficient, so we can better sever God’s purpose for our life! This is shown in Mark 1:35-39 where Jesus leaves his ministry to just spend time alone with the Father. Afterward he goes throughout Galilee, preaching and casting out demons.

God wants us to enjoy life! He wants you to be happy and love yourself, along with others. God expects us to love on ourselves. There will be trials and tribulations, and certainly every Christian has had to take up their cross. Which is such an important step in following the Lord, but Jesus enjoyed his life too! He ate and celebrated with the disciples and even let a poor woman bless him by washing his feet.

God is a god of Joy, Love, and Peace! And he demands that we love and invest in ourselves. Bravo to Mr. Hybels for reminding busy preachers to keep a Godly balance in their life.

KoneWone2 »

Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:42 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 0

Invest in themselves? Where is that taught in Scripture?

Where is the full-orbed, doctrinally sound, biblical Gospel in all of this? Where is the holiness of God, where is the awsomeness of God, where is the wrath of God, where is the exceedingly sinfulness of sin, where is the law of God to expose our sins and lead us to Christ for forgiveness of sins? Where is the dying to self, taking up ones Cross and walking the way, folowing the LORD Jesus Christ on the road of suffering and self denial.

The professing church needs a desperate return to the five Sola's of the Reformation clearly articulated here:

"The Cambridge Declaration of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals"

April 20, 1996

Evangelical churches today are increasingly dominated by the spirit of this age rather than by the Spirit of Christ. As evangelicals, we call ourselves to repent of this sin and to recover the historic Christian faith.

In the course of history words change. In our day this has happened to the word "evangelical." In the past it served as a bond of unity between Christians from a wide diversity of church traditions. Historic evangelicalism was confessional. It embraced the essential truths of Christianity as those were defined by the great ecumenical councils of the church. In addition, evangelicals also shared a common heritage in the "solas" of the sixteenth century Protestant Reformation.

Today the light of the Reformation has been significantly dimmed. The consequence is that the word "evangelical" has become so inclusive as to have lost its meaning. We face the peril of losing the unity it has taken centuries to achieve. Because of this crisis and because of our love of Christ, his gospel and his church, we endeavor to assert anew our commitment to the central truths of the Reformation and of historic evangelicalism. These truths we affirm not because of their role in our traditions, but because we believe that they are central to the Bible.
Continued here:

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/cambridgedeclaration.html

Is this the truth? Is this what Willow Creek and the 66,000 odd people adhere to in their Christian lives?