Sunday, November 08, 2009 Last Update:11:25 am ET

Society|Mon, Sep. 08 2008 11:22 AM EDT

Obama Says Abortion Comment at Megachurch Too Flip

By Michelle A. Vu|Christian Post Reporter

Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama said Sunday that his answer to the question "When does a baby get human rights?" at the recent Saddleback Church civic forum was probably too flip.

Less than a month ago, Obama had answered moderator Pastor Rick Warren at the nationally televised event that it was “above my pay grade” to determine when life begins.

But on Sunday, during an interview with ABC News, Obama acknowledged the response was “probably” too flip.

"Yes. I mean, what I intended to say is that, as a Christian, I have a lot of humility about understanding when does the soul enter into…," he explained.

"It's a pretty tough question,” he continued. “And so, all I meant to communicate was that I don't presume to be able to answer these kinds of theological questions.”

Rick Warren, in an interview after the forum, said he thought Obama needed to be more specific with his answer.

“[T]o me, I would not want to die and get before God one day and go, ‘Oh, sorry, I didn’t take the time to figure out’ because if I was wrong, then it had severe implications for my leadership if I had the ability to do something about it,” Warren had said in a Beliefnet.com interview.

“But to just say ‘I don’t know’ on the most divisive issue in America is not a clear enough answer for me,” he added.

Obama, in his interview Sunday, had also explained that abortion is a moral issue and he does not think the government “criminalizing” the decision of families is the best way to reduce the practice.

Meanwhile, Obama’s running mate, Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware, said during a separate interview on NBC’s “Meet the Press” Sunday that as a Roman Catholic he accepts the church’s teachings that life begins at conception.

However, he thinks it’s inappropriate in a pluralistic society to impose his judgment on others.

National surveys show that Obama has been significantly less popular among highly religious white voters. A Gallup Poll survey, released on Friday, show that 65 percent of non-Hispanic white registered voters who attend church weekly support Republican candidate John McCain, compared to 26 percent who support Obama.

Overall, McCain is slightly leading Obama among registered voters, according to the latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking update. McCain has the vote of 48 percent of registered voters, while Obama has 45 percent. The results are based on interviews with 2,765 registered voters on Sept. 4-6.

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  • Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Did Obama support the murder of Christians in Kenya? Aparently he raised $1 million dollars to his uncle who did.

  • Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:15 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    It seems Christ was pretty clear how He feels about immoral sex and murder:
    Revelation 21:8
    But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

  • Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:14 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Christ spoke out against immoral sex - everyone knew what Christ was referring to (as it is in the Law). This includes homosexuality, so there was no need to be more explicit.

  • Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Those starting their lives have just as much a right to protection as those in the twilight years, if not more. I do believe it is the role to protect the innocent, especially those who can not help themselves. If there were no abortion, there would be 40 million more in this country to provide for the government to tax to provide for the needs of those who can not provide for themselves. Abortion is murder. Dems have fought every attempt by congress to stop it. And there HAVE been attempts in the Bush years - and the Partial-birth Abortion Ban Act was passed - but Reps were afraid to go farther because Dems have fought them so hard on every abortion front. This is the same bill that Obama opposed in the Illinois congress.

  • Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    seedplanter/msnchris

    "Stan I don't know who you are or how familiar you are with Christian history, but it has been the practice since the first century for Christians to rescue babies that were being abandoned at the garbage dumps in Rome having been left exposed there to die."

    I'm much less concerned with what the practices are or are not of "some" Christians, but I am concerned about what the Bible says. All life is precious to the Lord and He sees an older person as if they were young. God doesn't see the wrinkles and the beat up bodies as we do. I see getting an abortion as offending God, but I don't in any way shape or form find evidence that this sin is "THEE" sin of all sins. It is a highly emotional sin that creates the desired effect in the electorate to get the desired result...nothing done on abortion...tax cuts for the wealthy. The same thing is done with gays. Picturing one man having sex with another is repulsive to me, but I find it beyond interesting that the Lord didn't decide to make it one of the immutable laws carved in stone. I also find it interesting that He gave us numerous quotes from His only Son in the Gospels, but not one quote from Christ bashing gays. I always voted Democrat, but in 1996, I abstained, because of Bill Clinton's lewd behavior. You want to know why Congress has a lower approval rating than President Bush, because Democrats are voting their disapproval. They are not loyal no matter what, like many Republicans are. My dad was Republican most of his life and my mother is Catholic, I'm neither. My love is for everyone, but my loyalty is Christ's alone.

  • Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Chris,
    Amen. Let's carry that banner of life for all to see. Defend the undefended.

  • Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Stan,

    Yeah, and if you want to see the consistent record of Christians always believing that abortion was murder, then all you have to do is do a search for: Catholic and Early Church Fathers, comma then Abortion. It will come up for you. There are many quotes that show Christian TRADITION of saying abortion was evil. The Catholic Church has never wavered on Abortion and we are so thankful for the many wonderful Protestant Christians who help carry the banner against abortion with us.

    God protect the innocent! Remember, John the Baptist leaped for joy in Elizabeth's womb when Mary approached with the baby Jesus still in her womb. Praise the Lord!!!

  • Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "I'd better cancel my subsciption to the Wittenburg Door then...."

    Do they still print that thing???

  • Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Stan,
    I don't think abortion is the only issue in this election, but it is clearly the most critical concern for Christians. Obama refused to protect babies even after birth. This is intolerable.

    The Bible does not have to explicitly state that it is the Christian's duty to protect unborn babies. The Bible does not specifically say that it is immoral to beat your kids with razor wire while you hang them upside down by their toe nails from the rafters. Nevertheless the Bible does speak to the issue and has been posted here and elsewhere.

    Stan I don't know who you are or how familiar you are with Christian history, but it has been the practice since the first century for Christians to rescue babies that were being abandoned at the garbage dumps in Rome having been left exposed there to die.

    Obama has the audacity to be concerned about his daughter's futures in an unwanted pregnancies without consideration of the little innocent baby whose life he is about to terminate. He wants to talk about hope? If Obama cannot even bring himself to protect the helpless how can he expect anyone to respect him. He is more radical than HILLARY!

    Barrack is not about mercy or justice, but abortion on demand.

  • Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:02 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Oh, I disagree with Obama on other issues as well. McCain has a track record of authoring legislation and getting things passed. Obama has written two books on himself. His hubris seems to know no bounds. I like lower taxes. I want our country safe. I want judges who will not make law from the bench. I want social and financial conservatives in office. I don't believe the extreme Democrats are good for this country (and Obama seems to be one of the most extreme.

    Murder is the antithesis of love. It seems like a good measuring stick.

  • Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:05 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    If the taking of human life is the basis of your voting, where does that reconcile with scripture? I'm not talking about finding verses of scripture that mention killing is wrong, I'm talking about making a sound argument on why killing is your focus. Idol worship is the first commandment and love should be your greatest aim. Why is there not one parable or religious teaching on killing by Christ in the four gospels, but you make it your lone focus? If a baby was crying and I made the sin of killing and another person made the sin of ignoring it while it slowly starved to death, who would be the worse sinner? That's what the GOP does with the 16 million or more children(never mind adults, nothing in scripture that says a child's life is different than an adult's life) who die every year from preventable diseases. And they refuse to pass any laws that would cut down the number of children aborted.

  • Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Murder is a moral issue. Let's not pass laws criminalizing people's behavior as a way to reduce it.

  • Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Blue, it may be a moral question as to whether or not it is appropriate to kill a baby. But what certainly is not an ethical category is when life begins. It is a scientific fact that life begins at conception.

    Obama was merely trying to cloud the issue in consideration of his unwillingness to protect babies after they are born. He was actually trying to remain consistent without incriminating himself before the pastor.

  • Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Obama, in his interview Sunday, had also explained that abortion is a moral issue and he does not think the government “criminalizing” the decision of families is the best way to reduce the practice.

    He is right. Anyone trying to dispute his point is only invoking a moral reasoning and certainly not a legal one.

  • Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:32 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Looks like I'd better cancel my subsciption to the Wittenburg Door then....
    Steve
    P.s On the subject of Zechariah, sure wish my wife would take God less seriously, sure would be peaceful.

  • Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:55 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I'm sorry that I take the Word of God so serious. I didn't realize that it was meant as a satirical writing, instead of a guidebook.
    All sarcasm aside, yes, I do take God serious. Please show me one person in the Bible who didn't. When God told Zechariah (John the Baptist's father) that he was going to have a son, he didn't take God serious. I see what happened to him.

  • Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:08 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The meal at mcDonalds is meant as a little joke...If humour gets me placed in the carnalistic camp then I will wear the badge with pride, thank you prophet, obviously you are a real Chrsitian (which I beleieve, though I reckon our Lord has the final word on that)because you are so serious.

    Keep it up..

    Steve

  • Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:07 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Jesus said, "my sheep hear my voice and they follow".

  • Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    If God can speak to a little boy (Samuel), and a grown man (Gideon and Paul), he can speak to you. If you are not hearing His voice, does this say something about God or you?

    There ARE principles in the word of God that tells us how to vote. But God leads us in numerous ways, in different ways, including feelings, words, events. Some of us DO hear God's voice. Some do not. But we all have His word. We all must test what we hear/feel/do against what God said in His word.

  • Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    " I don't think 'God' tells/asks/demands/ etc..anybody to vote in one particular way."

    Actally...God gives us principles to live by. One is that life is sacred. It is a horrible thing to have to take a life. Yet, our terrorist enemies have behaved in such a way that we must protect ourselves. One is that Christians die to self and live for Christ. This doesn't mean the Christianity is part of your life that you can just leave at the door. Christianity defines who a Christian is. It is not simply part of your life. It is your life. "Never the less, not I who live but Christ who lives in me."

    Those principles alone keep me from voting for the Obama ticket. Still, God does speak to my heart about quite a few things. I see things I would not see without outside intervention. Biblical wisdom does not come from any of us. It is something shown to us.

  • Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    And that, Steve, is why I question your Christianity.

  • Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Hmmm....a meal at McDonalds....or our country's future...
    I can see how similar those two are. Whether I eat at McDonalds or at Wendy's does have a huge impact on what direction this country goes. That's a very carnlistic way of looking at things.
    The problem is that so few actually do pray about important things, such as who we want leading our country.

  • Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "If you were a Christian, then why did you ask "if you vote the way God asks you to, how to you reconcile that with other Chrsitans who believe God asks them to vote diffrently to you?""

    Okay lets cool this down (I'm also talking to myself also). I don't think "God" tells/asks/demands/ etc..anybody to vote in one particular way. I have a brain that can reflect/ think about the world around it, therefore I believe I can come to my own decision to vote in a particular way, if some people wish to pray about it, thats fine by me, but I don'r feel the need to so that, just the same as I don't ask God what meal to have when I go to McDonalds. I am grown up you know...

  • Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    DanielPaul

    Don't be so silly, there is only one football.....

    :-P

    Steve

  • Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    It is interesting that many people just can't figure out what the 80% of our brain we don't use is there for. Perhaps it was created for 'spiritual use'.

  • Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Right, off to play football, the beautiful game. "

    Yours or ours?

  • Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:58 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    This is my narrow view of God. He is God. His Word is true and just. He is the God of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac. He's also the God of me and millions of Christians. He heals, delivers, sets free, sanctifies, annoints, speaks, moves, inspires. He is holy, perfect, sinless, just, loving, forgiving, life, our strong tower, our shield, our fortress. He is from everlsting to everlasting, eternal and unchanging. That is my "small view".
    But I assume the you believe that God demands. Is that the kind of relationship that you have? Do you "do" because He demands and you're afraid of what will happen if you don't? You are sounding more like an orthodox Jew than a Christian.
    When I pray I ask God for wisdom and direction. When I ask "What do you want me to do?". He says "I want you do this..." He doesn't say "You HAVE to do this..." He doesn't say "You MUST do this...." He says "I want you to do this..." And most of the time I do it. Sometimes my flesh gets in the way and I don't. And that's where grace comes in. But that's another sermon.
    If I said that you weren't a Christian, it was because of listening to you over a length of time.
    If you were a Christian, then why did you ask "if you vote the way God asks you to, how to you reconcile that with other Chrsitans who believe God asks them to vote diffrently to you?"
    If you are a Christian, why not ask yourself that question?

  • Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:32 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Actually being a Chrsitian or not (and by the way how can you be sure of that) has nothing to do with me chuckling. The God I am aware of the God of Iassac, Jacob, Abraham, the God who burns in a bush but does not consume it, is not one who as far as I know asks......dead right asks was extreme, and so was suggests by by the way, thats why I chuckle, I fear you have a very small view of God, Oh but how could I know that because YOU know I am not a Christian.....because YOU say who is and who isn't (Hope I got that right).

    And just in case you ask, Yes I know Christianity is not a religion but a living realtionship with Jesus just as a man has a realtionship with his wife doing what pleases her not due to rules but due to love....

    Reckon that covers everything, phew!!

    Right, off to play football, the beautiful game.

  • Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:58 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Steve,
    You "chuckle that God asks me" because you are not a Christian. You do not understand the difference between Christianity and religion. Now, maybe "ask" may be a little to one extreme...maybe I should of said "I vote the way God suggests, or says, I should vote." But God does not demand. God does not force. We have free will. I do not do what is right because I am afraid of some recompense of I don't. I do what is right (i.e. what the Bible teaches) because I love God, and I want to please him.
    That's the difference between Christianity and religion.
    Religion is built on fear.
    Christianity is built on love.
    Religion says "I have to..."
    Chritianity says "I want to..."

    As far as your question about the way other Chrisitans vote. I don't answer for them. There relationship with God is between them and God. If a Neo-Nazi was running for president and they said "God told me to vote for them", then their decision is between them and God, and God will deal justly with them. I may point out the error of their decision, but it's still God they will have to answer to.
    I have made decisions in my life that I truly thought were of God, only to find out that they weren't. God dealt with me justly, but lovingly.

  • Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:45 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet

    I've had a thought, if you vote the way God asks you to, how to you reconcile that with other Chrsitans who believe God asks them to vote diffrently to you/
    Kind regards
    Steve
    P.s I had to chuckle that god "asks" you...

  • Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    A flip answer usually comes from a flip person.

    What fun Letterman would have with Obama!

  • Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:15 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Yes I know what you mean, very often, though it takes time the secret actions and thoughts of men come to light, nothing stays hidden for ever...I understand

  • Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:06 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I vote as God asks me to vote. There have been people in the past that knew their "Godspeak" very well, but God has a way of bringing the truth to light. And those who are Spiritually minded will understand and see that.

  • Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:05 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Steve,
    You said "The danger in your approach is that you open up yourself to be used by politicians who use stock phrases etc..to gain your vote."
    How so? If a man is a truly Godly man, then that would not be an issue. That is my point.

  • Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:03 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    steve,
    I made that observation, not on a single question, but an entire conversation.

  • Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:21 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    prophet

    How do you know I am carnally minded because I ask that question, thats quite a leap to make because I am willing to look at and reflect on the situation at hand. The danger in your approach is that you open up yourself to be used by politicians who use stock phrases etc..to gain your vote. Thanks you for using the example of David and Saul, I am quite up to speed on them they make interesting examples.

    By the way many thanks for answering the question.

    Kind regards

    Steve

  • Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    President Truman, had a sign on his desk in the White House which stated, "The Buck Stops here." http://www.trumanlibrary.org/buckstop.htm

    Obama, who is not able to determine when life begins or when a child should get rights, is no President Truman.

  • Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:14 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    seedplanter,
    That is true. Unfortunately Carter showed his true colors. "We will know them by their fruit."
    As much as I long for it though, I know that we will never have a truly Godly leader.

  • Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:54 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet,
    Of course I would rather elect an eight year old Josiah than a well experienced Nebakanezer.

    My point is however that Jimmy Carter was hailed in as the nations born again president when he was the one responsible for incorporating Roe v. Wade as a part of American life. He was a Southern Baptist Sunday school teacher and who would have ever guessed?

    Similarly, we have a Democratic nominee who was brought up in religious schools (one Muslim and one Catholic if I'm not mistaken) who doesn't think it plausible to protect babies after they are born. On the other hand we have a Republican contender who has little religious heritage at all who is basically pro-life.

  • Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "It's a pretty tough question," he continued. "And so, all I meant to communicate was that I don't presume to be able to answer these kinds of theological questions."

    So...he's not smart enough to know if abortion is actually killing a creation of God but that's OK...God can make more.... If he's not smart enough for this issue then he's just not smart enough to be President.

  • Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Proverbs 29:2 "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn."

  • Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Joseph is another good example. He was a poor man, who, through God's wisdom and guidance, became second in command of the greatest empire of his time. He was in no way a politician. So, yes, I'd rather follow a truly Godly man. Man's wisdom is foolishness before God. And a man who follows God's wisdom will bring blessings upon the people.

  • Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Builders and politicians...hmmm...there's a good comparison. Kinda like apples and atomic warfare....

  • Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    steve,
    You're right. I'd rather follow a man who is on top of local and foreign policies, but promotes mass murder and homosexuality and promiscuity.
    Who is actually the wiser one? A God fearing politician, or an atheist politician? Depends on who you ask.
    But speaking to a carnally minded person, I do not expect you to understand. King David was raised a shepherd boy. And because he had a righteous heart, and listend to God, he became Israel's greatest king ever. Saul, though I don't think it's clear about it, was raised in a political atmosphere. And look at how he ended up.
    Paul, before his conversion, was very political in his views before he was converted. It's a good thing that Jesus got a hold of Him and straightened him out.

  • Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    prophet

    Does that mean that if you had a choice of builders you would choose a rubbish one who happened to be godly but will do a rubbish job rather that an excellent one who was not a believer but does a great job? Leading a country can be considered in the same light, a good leader builds....

  • Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet,
    You are so right about the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8. Everyone should watch it: some to be reminded of the truth, others to learn it for the first time.

  • Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Provergs 12:5 "The thoughts of the righteous are right: but the counsels of the wicked are deceit."

    Proverbs 15:28 "The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things."

    And my favorite...

    Proverbs 29:2 "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn."

  • Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:33 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "When does life begin?" is a biological question. The answer is a biological fact; it is not a theological question." -Squeeky

    You've got that right! It is a simple fact that life begins at conception. Question is do we have a right to end it? When a little 9 week old baby cringes in pain and agony as it is being burned alive, does it make it ethical just because it doesn't comprehend what is taking place?


    "There are many things Republican leaders can do to drastically reduce abortions but they don't." -Stan

    Well Stan, partial birth abortions have been banned. And the Supreme Court upheld it. Thanks to the previous administration tax payers do not have to kill their conscience by paying for it (directly that is to say - Planned Parenthood still receives more than its share of funding inspite of the millions of $$$ in profits). PP is currently lobbying for more $$$.

    Remember Stan, Obama did not want to protect children in my home state of IL after they were born............... A L I V E ! ! !


    AgentOrange,
    Was your question answered sufficiently? I understand that your question was more of a possible dilemma of the soul that you were attempting to set forth rather than an ethical question.


    Holito,
    "However, God warns us that we should elect godly rulers, remember Saul."

    While this may seem like a good standard, it should probably be pointed out that if I needed to hire a lawyer, I would not try to hire my pastor unless he was qualified and licensed to practice.

    Furthermore, Good point about Dems and Reps; I still regret not having voted for the Democrat that was running against George Ryan for governor some years back. He was pro-life and we probably would have saved ourselves a lot of pain from the current office.

  • Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:11 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    God's Word is clear on this matter, God will honor the nation whose leaders honor Him, and that is the question every Christian needs to prayerfully ask themselves before they support or vote for any political candidate.

  • Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:07 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Here's a good link as to why we are in Iraq, and why Obama needs to bow out of the presidential race.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

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